What does "sustain" mean for the devs?

Berenhir

Hey everyone,

reading the patch notes I ask myself if the players and the devs are talking past each other.

I would like to clarify what the devs think of when they state that you "have to make a choice between sustain and damage".
Are high damage builds - DDs - from the devs point of view meant to be sustainable at all? Or do you want DPS to run out of ressources eventually - sooner or later? How long should someone be able to keep his rotation up? What is the sweet spot of balance for you? How much DPS is too much? Is more than 40k DPS too much? Shall these numbers only be sustainable for very short periods of time?
What do you consider average and sustainable DPS for clearing vet dungeons, trials, hard modes? What amount of DPS should be generally sustainable for ALL classes from your point of view? 15k, 20k?

wimhwimladimf

I think it's pretty obvious. They want players to pick between increasing max resource or recovery/cost reduction. Atm, most builds just stack max resource cause with maxed CP it's pretty hard to run out of it.

jakeedmundson

Problem is... general eso population can't sustain a low dps/high sustain build (like using lich set and julianos mixed) and do 15k dps WITH the cp bonus as it is now.

maybe the top 30% of players can do 20-30k without many issues of sustain...(this is where i sit generally)
maybe the top 5% of those players can do 35k+ without many issues of sustain... ( both groups on the target dummy)

essentially what this patch will do... lower the ceiling of top dps players while at the same time, lowering the floor for the general eso population. The gap between the two will still be the same or even larger.

This patch will not accomplish what they are hoping for...
It will, however, hurt templars...mag dks...and all stamina builds with the proposed sustain changes.
Nightblades are still in a bad place (mag or stam) and mag sorcs will have to adjust a little bit but still be able to pump out high dps.

Maybe hit the reset button on this one ZOS... back to the drawererering boaredered

Kesstryl

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Problem is... general eso population can't sustain a low dps/high sustain build (like using lich set and julianos mixed) and do 15k dps WITH the cp bonus as it is now.

maybe the top 30% of players can do 20-30k without many issues of sustain...(this is where i sit generally)
maybe the top 5% of those players can do 35k+ without many issues of sustain... ( both groups on the target dummy)

essentially what this patch will do... lower the ceiling of top dps players while at the same time, lowering the floor for the general eso population. The gap between the two will still be the same or even larger.

This patch will not accomplish what they are hoping for...
It will, however, hurt templars...mag dks...and all stamina builds with the proposed sustain changes.
Nightblades are still in a bad place (mag or stam) and mag sorcs will have to adjust a little bit but still be able to pump out high dps.

Maybe hit the reset button on this one ZOS... back to the drawererering boaredered

This is also my main worry with the changes. I'm in that general population group, and so is most of my guild as it's a Housing guild. We do have a few in the top 30%, but the majority of us are causal players trying to combo regular zone sets into a survivable PvE build. We are going to hurt like crazy. My Stamplar will most likely be delegated to being my main crafter.

HugeMuffin

I want to be cynical and say "sustain is whatever makes the twitch streamers better than the devs", but I think that they have spent the past 6 months coming up with their own jargon.

It probably started with "Sustain builds can put out damage for a few minutes while not dying in PvP" while "Damage builds can do spikes of high damag." and to them, it was a choice between being consistent or being bursty.

Unfortunately that memo didn't circulate around the entire team and the rest looked at sustain like we look at sustain and said "Either we nerf people's ability to deal direct damage, or we knock the legs out from the resources required to sustain those skills" and PvE sustain took a major hit in the process.

I don't think we'll be seeing a reversal, I don't think we'll be seeing significant tune-ups to sustain skills in the coming weeks, and I do think that the devs and admins are afraid of admitting that because it would cause mass panic.

wimhwimladimf

Idk, i got like 155CP Sorc with full epic lich set and epic lightning weapon and i can do around 5-7k single target dps (without ultimate) on Vet dungeon bosses. I have around ~2300 magicka recovery (without Lich proc) and still run out of mana quite often. However 4-5 fully charged heavy attacks bring me back nearly to full mana (which is around 27k). If heavy attacks werent so clunky, this wouldnt be such a big problem.


Tbh, i think Devs wanted to lower recovery for all those bis geared players with max CP and just didnt take in to consideration all other who dont have all those CP bonuses to adjust their build. This patch will hit mostly new players, most dungeons will take about 30% more time, since you gonna need to spam more clunky heavy attacks which are not always an options due to red aoe poping right and left.

MehrunesFlagon

wimhwimladimf wrote: »

Idk, i got like 155CP Sorc with full epic lich set and epic lightning weapon and i can do around 5-7k single target dps (without ultimate) on Vet dungeon bosses. I have around ~2300 magicka recovery (without Lich proc) and still run out of mana quite often. However 4-5 fully charged heavy attacks bring me back nearly to full mana (which is around 27k). If heavy attacks werent so clunky, this wouldnt be such a big problem.


Tbh, i think Devs wanted to lower recovery for all those bis geared players with max CP and just didnt take in to consideration all other who dont have all those CP bonuses to adjust their build. This patch will hit mostly new players, most dungeons will take about 30% more time, since you gonna need to spam more clunky heavy attacks which are not always an options due to red aoe poping right and left.

They obviously didn't. Even though it's good to see you are giving proper feedback to that.I could have said that without seeing that.