Should Nightblades be played as Magicka ?

Tryxus

Lore-wise, Nightblades are mages. StamBlades aren't lore-friendly

Nyladreas

FlyLionel wrote: »

DoShazarr wrote: »

Ah yeah the endless battle of stamina vs magicka...

If i may give you an advice, don't play stamina it's really weak.




Ehm... or is it?

Next time try and show your scroll bonuses and your setup(clever alchemist with drinks?), generally everything. Also pvp;;stam=pve; magicka, difference is there isn't a huge trade off in pvp with variations how like pve is....That's like me going into a trial on a stamina NB buffed with warhorn and all the other class buffs through passives and screen shotting my stats saying "Hey, stam in pve is great! Look at my stats!" ..Nope

@DoShazarr

Sorry to disappoint. I'm not sure if I want to share any of my setup though. It's more fun this way when nobody can copy you

This screen has been taken in tamriel and it's a buffed state. As you've guessed. PvP setup. Not saying more than that.

Violynne

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

this is a very touchy subject for many of us here on the forums and alot of people have different ideas.
hard subject to discuss.

No, it's not a hard subject to discuss because the reality is ZoS mucked up the design of the NB from day 1.

I watched the latest ESO live and Rich made the comment about "developers play the game, despite what people believe".

This may be true, but it's highly unlikely they're playing stamBlades. Not if they want to play the game, anyway.

Almost every new player to the stamBlade has difficult with it. Which makes sense, since the skills aligned with a melee build are all magicka based.

This means if a stamBlade pools their resources into stamina, they may, may get two or three uses of their powerful skill tree from magicka, which is why many spam the DW skill tree, not their class skill tree.

They have no choice.

How in the hell a melee build can't draw from stamina is beyond me. All ZoS developers need to do is recode the entire skill tree to stamina rather than magicka.

They do this, magSorcs drop to second place.

Galwylin

I recommend magicka at least till 50. Then if you haven't finished all the content perhaps stay a bit longer. And if you want to group I suggest a different class. Definitely a different class if you want to be good at anything. And definitely a different class if you want the developers to like you. So, yeah, magicka will help a bit.

Nyladreas

Tryxus wrote: »

Lore-wise, Nightblades are mages. StamBlades aren't lore-friendly

This is sort of true but not etirely. They're Rogue-Wizards.

Trained in the schools of Alteration, Mysticism (Lifestealing and such), Illusion and a bit of Destruction as well as Assassination and thieving skills.

They should be the real hybrid class. Perfectly balanced magicka and stamina.

Not impossible imo and I'd love it.

kadar

DoShazarr wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

DoShazarr wrote: »

Ah yeah the endless battle of stamina vs magicka...

If i may give you an advice, don't play stamina it's really weak.




Ehm... or is it?

Too fixated on Weapon damage if you ask me. That stam pool needs some love.

At that point stamina doesn't really do as much as you would think, a lot of people say that with absolutely no hard data and pool + sustain is never a problem for a nightblade if that's your concern 25k is actually enough.

Trust in me

My lack of hard data certainly doesn't trust your lack of hard data, haha!

The great thing about Stamina is that it functions as both sustain and damage, whereas regen and wpn dmg are singular in function. To each their own I suppose, keep on keepin on!

Nyladreas

The_Outsider wrote: »

DoShazarr wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

DoShazarr wrote: »

Ah yeah the endless battle of stamina vs magicka...

If i may give you an advice, don't play stamina it's really weak.




Ehm... or is it?

Too fixated on Weapon damage if you ask me. That stam pool needs some love.

At that point stamina doesn't really do as much as you would think, a lot of people say that with absolutely no hard data and pool + sustain is never a problem for a nightblade if that's your concern 25k is actually enough.

Trust in me

My lack of hard data certainly doesn't trust your lack of hard data, haha!

The great thing about Stamina is that it functions as both sustain and damage, whereas regen and wpn dmg are singular in function. To each their own I suppose, keep on keepin on!

You do realize that as a NB you dont have to worry about sustain at all whatsoever if you play correctly right? And that weapon /spell damage scales much better with ability damage right?

PS4_ZeColmeia

I jump between mageNB and hybridNB. IMHO, it's the best way to play.

NB, to me, is the best class to play if you get on and do a majority of content solo because you can choose when and if to play anything. You can bypass anything you don't feel like doing and 2 out of 5 DLC favor content towards NB playstyle.

People talk bad on NB for top tier max damage (which won't matter any more once Morrowind drops because max damage only with no sustain = gimp), but from a gameplay experience it's an awesome class.

MageNB is most fun to me because you have more tricks up your sleeve and stay stealthed as long as you want to. That is pretty much the #1 reason to not go StamNB IMHO.

Bladerunner1

I've been playing a Stamblade from the beginning and had the same question as the OP before champion points were introduced. I died often in the beginning, the nightblade healing skills are bad if you go with stamina. I, too, followed my friend's suggestion to try the magblade build, but it all felt mushy to me so I went back to stamina. The problem for me was I liked seeing things die quickly: one hit from stealth, or two if out of stealth. Or watching boss health bars drop in very large chunks.

The boss survivability problem can be addressed with vigor, but you have to PVP a while to earn it. The other option is the two hand Rally ability if you don't mind a two hand weapon.

Galwylin

Of the human variety, this was my experience. I thought Redguard would do well but I had so much trouble with my stamina Breton nightblade that I made him a stamina dragonknight I run a great bit like I did my Breton. Medium armor passives for crit and stealth. Dual weld. Then a few choice class skills but especially the ones for healing since that was where most of the trouble was. My Breton went magicka which was a world of difference in surviving. Soloed the public dungeon in Coldharbour after a dozen deaths or more this past week learning the boss mechanics But that was being very dependent maybe too dependent on the life stealing skills of a nightblade. My main source of damage since I still have to focus on staying alive. Of course those dungeons are easier with more folk. I just can't image any stamina nightblade doing that though I suppose more skill at the game could make it possible. But starting out (and level 20 isn't very difficult), I can see why anyone would question the viability of a stamina nightblade. I certainly did. And still do.

max_only

DoShazarr wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

DoShazarr wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

DoShazarr wrote: »

Ah yeah the endless battle of stamina vs magicka...

If i may give you an advice, don't play stamina it's really weak.




Ehm... or is it?

Too fixated on Weapon damage if you ask me. That stam pool needs some love.

At that point stamina doesn't really do as much as you would think, a lot of people say that with absolutely no hard data and pool + sustain is never a problem for a nightblade if that's your concern 25k is actually enough.

Trust in me

My lack of hard data certainly doesn't trust your lack of hard data, haha!

The great thing about Stamina is that it functions as both sustain and damage, whereas regen and wpn dmg are singular in function. To each their own I suppose, keep on keepin on!

You do realize that as a NB you dont have to worry about sustain at all whatsoever if you play correctly right? And that weapon /spell damage scales much better with ability damage right?

@DoShazarr Have you tried playing without Siphoning/Leeching Attacks?


But for OP, I was also super confused that this "rogue" character had all these magic skills and even morphed the (two?) stamina skills looked like worse options. So it took me a while to realize that they aren't traditional rogues at all, they are blood mages. So it's easier to go full magicka when you first start. Stam nb is great for pvp I hear but both types of nightblades are underpowered when compared to the other four classes.

Tholian1

I would prefer to play my nightblade as a hybrid, but those aren't very welcome in ESO.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

firedrgn

I play stam nightblade. For questing and sneaking around it's great. I main a bow in PvE questing. For dungeon's probably go mag.

ThePonzzz

While the near 6k weapon damage is possible, it's not sustainable. I've tried running it. You basically need your alliance to take the map/scrolls and [REDACTED]. It's fun, without the alliance having pure control, your weapon crit takes too hard of a hit.

max_only

PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

nightblade class is really easily killed and simply does not do awesome damage like the other classes can.
there are people who seem to do ALOT of damage and survive Very well with nightblades both stamina and magicka based but ...
theres some speculation as to why they can do it.
this is a very touchy subject for many of us here on the forums and alot of people have different ideas.
hard subject to discuss.

No awesome damage? What are ye smokin'? Moi PvP Nightblade oneshot goodness build is amazing and puts the OP in OP.

From stealth no?

Milk it while you can.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Megabear

I had been playing a stamina nightblade and yeah, it does feel gimped. But I have more fun with her than my mag sorc who is almighty in comparison. Weird.

max_only

PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

nightblade class is really easily killed and simply does not do awesome damage like the other classes can.
there are people who seem to do ALOT of damage and survive Very well with nightblades both stamina and magicka based but ...
theres some speculation as to why they can do it.
this is a very touchy subject for many of us here on the forums and alot of people have different ideas.
hard subject to discuss.

No awesome damage? What are ye smokin'? Moi PvP Nightblade oneshot goodness build is amazing and puts the OP in OP.

From stealth no?

Milk it while you can.

Who needs stealth? I'm not some flithy srcub casul who needs that.

I just attack from the rear.

Ah, ye olde

"Rogues do it from behind."




I don't pvp but good for you mate! Because I believed them that I could "play how I want" I made my nightblade into a tank bc I couldn't bring up his damage numbers.... but his survival skill tho - - - Choice.

Danksta

The_Outsider wrote: »

DoShazarr wrote: »

Ah yeah the endless battle of stamina vs magicka...

If i may give you an advice, don't play stamina it's really weak.




Ehm... or is it?

Too fixated on Weapon damage if you ask me. That stam pool needs some love.

With the high magicka regen this is obviously a ganker/PvP setup that relies heavily on cloak. With these setups you run mag/stam recovery drinks and they do plenty of damage without the high stam pool.

raglau

Megabear wrote: »

I had been playing a stamina nightblade and yeah, it does feel gimped. But I have more fun with her than my mag sorc who is almighty in comparison. Weird.

I think it's the common experience. Magsorc, point, click, close eyes, point, click, close eyes, repeat to fade. Stamblade, get in close and be on the ball to avoid all AoE, cleave etc. etc. It's a far more engaging gaming experience to be a Stamblade, but it is more demanding and there's a sudden wall for DPS figures. It's easy to get OK figures, but pulling really good ones on a Stamblade is very tough, but it can be done if you watch the videos of the top players. Alas I am not one of those!

Galwylin

Tholian1 wrote: »

I would prefer to play my nightblade as a hybrid, but those aren't very welcome in ESO.

I've been waiting until I got another character to max level so I could truly go hybrid on mine. But not sure how to accomplish it though with damage and healing (I could be wrong here) based off pool size so they can't be split or you just end up with low damage. Anyways, got other things to do than work on that at the moment. If stamina nightblades just had reliable healing I probably would have never rolled up another character.

Megabear

praglaud wrote: »

Megabear wrote: »

I had been playing a stamina nightblade and yeah, it does feel gimped. But I have more fun with her than my mag sorc who is almighty in comparison. Weird.

I think it's the common experience. Magsorc, point, click, close eyes, point, click, close eyes, repeat to fade. Stamblade, get in close and be on the ball to avoid all AoE, cleave etc. etc. It's a far more engaging gaming experience to be a Stamblade, but it is more demanding and there's a sudden wall for DPS figures. It's easy to get OK figures, but pulling really good ones on a Stamblade is very tough, but it can be done if you watch the videos of the top players. Alas I am not one of those!

Yeah, I'm not one of those players either. I don't enjoy watching videos of top players. I do enjoy tips from average players though

raglau

Megabear wrote: »

praglaud wrote: »

Megabear wrote: »

I had been playing a stamina nightblade and yeah, it does feel gimped. But I have more fun with her than my mag sorc who is almighty in comparison. Weird.

I think it's the common experience. Magsorc, point, click, close eyes, point, click, close eyes, repeat to fade. Stamblade, get in close and be on the ball to avoid all AoE, cleave etc. etc. It's a far more engaging gaming experience to be a Stamblade, but it is more demanding and there's a sudden wall for DPS figures. It's easy to get OK figures, but pulling really good ones on a Stamblade is very tough, but it can be done if you watch the videos of the top players. Alas I am not one of those!

Yeah, I'm not one of those players either. I don't enjoy watching videos of top players. I do enjoy tips from average players though

The person I learned a lot from watching and reading what he said, is Gilliam the Rogue, but he seems of the view that Stamblade is pretty much dead in the water following the release of Morrowind. Generally I'd take that sort of statement with a pinch of salt, but he knows the class better than anyone IMO.

Tryxus

DoShazarr wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

Lore-wise, Nightblades are mages. StamBlades aren't lore-friendly

This is sort of true but not etirely. They're Rogue-Wizards.

Trained in the schools of Alteration, Mysticism (Lifestealing and such), Illusion and a bit of Destruction as well as Assassination and thieving skills.

They should be the real hybrid class. Perfectly balanced magicka and stamina.

Not impossible imo and I'd love it.

Yeah ik, I was just kidding

Nightblades are actually Mage first and then Thief/Assassin/Rogue/... second, since they use their magic to enhance stealth and mobility.

But I think ZOS did a rather neat job on the class in this game as we can choose to be close to the original concept of the class in the single player games (Magicka) or play more Rogue-like with Magicka skills used more for support (Stamina)

Lavennin

Hmm...? Since when is magNB weak?
I mean, since when is magNB weak during leveling? And not even stamblades are that bad.

I'm a new player, so I don't have any gear or gold. Started as a stamblade, sneak attack opening, followed by DW. When there's more than 1 enemy I always cc one of them. When there's some real danger I cloak away. Even 2-3 cloaks are good enough to get away with almost anything. I never stand in the face of a group of enemies and never tank all the damage. I know NB isnt built for that.

Then as a friend joined I restarted, this time as magblade. I find my damage to be pretty good, though not as good as a sorcerer, I still kill things too fast to my liking. And most importantly I'm virtually unkillable.

Really, what's so bad about NB leveling? I keep seeing people say how they switch to DK and sorc because NB feels weak. I suspect it's because they were trying to face tank everything, or they just wanted to see big numbers.

NB isn't about that, and shouldn't be about that.

Now end game content is another thing, which I don't know yet.

O_LYKOS

Play whichever you prefer. I'm levelling a new stamina Nightblade. it's fine but gets better/easier once you morph skills into stamina.

kadar

DoShazarr wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

DoShazarr wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

DoShazarr wrote: »

Ah yeah the endless battle of stamina vs magicka...

If i may give you an advice, don't play stamina it's really weak.




Ehm... or is it?

Too fixated on Weapon damage if you ask me. That stam pool needs some love.

At that point stamina doesn't really do as much as you would think, a lot of people say that with absolutely no hard data and pool + sustain is never a problem for a nightblade if that's your concern 25k is actually enough.

Trust in me

My lack of hard data certainly doesn't trust your lack of hard data, haha!

The great thing about Stamina is that it functions as both sustain and damage, whereas regen and wpn dmg are singular in function. To each their own I suppose, keep on keepin on!

You do realize that as a NB you dont have to worry about sustain at all whatsoever if you play correctly right? And that weapon /spell damage scales much better with ability damage right?

Right, because 2300 recovery is you not worrying about sustain at all.
If you really don't have to worry about it, why not put all that recovery into more damage? It's cool that you like to stack weapon damage, and yes, I'm aware of how damage scales. I'm sure you've got a super neat build, like I said, to each their own~

Aaaand I'm realizing this is super not the point of the this thread, adios er'ybody.

xeNNNNN

out of the two, I would say magblade is stronger in pve generally, stamblade being close tho.

as for pvp well, single target ganking I would say stamblade. AoE Bombing magblade. I think PvP is more a what you like to play rather than whats "better" tbh.

ive seen people hit roughly the same amounts of damage on target dummies with both mag and stam but then there is number variables all over the place.

That said, I would honestly just play your nightblade how you want to play them. Hell you might even come up with a build yourself that the "Top 1%" havent thought of. Always a possibility.

scorpiodog

FlyLionel wrote: »

DoShazarr wrote: »

Ah yeah the endless battle of stamina vs magicka...

If i may give you an advice, don't play stamina it's really weak.




Ehm... or is it?

Next time try and show your scroll bonuses and your setup(clever alchemist with drinks?), generally everything. Also pvp;;stam=pve; magicka, difference is there isn't a huge trade off in pvp with variations how like pve is....That's like me going into a trial on a stamina NB buffed with warhorn and all the other class buffs through passives and screen shotting my stats saying "Hey, stam in pve is great! Look at my stats!" ..Nope

@DoShazarr

I think those numbers are not all that difficult to obtain. It isn't even as min-max as it could be. He put some stuff into health and magica for survivability