[Suggestion/Bug] Increase cost of sorcerer wards to be in line with costs of light armor wards

Zarrakon

On the PTS, on my sorcerer, Dampen Magic & Harness Magicka cost 3902, while Empowered Ward costs 2754 and Hardened Ward costs 2984. Hardened Ward will typically be a larger shield than Dampen Magic (and it affects your pet!), since a lot of magicka characters only wear 5 pieces of light armor, and Dampen Magic only increases shield strength by 6% at max rank per piece (compared to Hardened Ward increasing shield strength at max rank by 33%). Empowered Ward will have the same strength as Harness Magicka (and it affects your pet!); even though Harness Magicka will more than refund the cost difference if used appropriately, I don't think this warrants Harness Magicka costing more.

I think it would be fair to have Hardened Ward and Dampen Magic cost 3.9k, and maybe have Harness Magicka and Empowered Ward cost 3.5k or 3.7k (slightly less to compensate for the reduced shield strength). I think the relative costs of these abilities currently objectively make no sense.

My main character is a sorcerer, and I rely heavily on my shields, but the cost discrepancy has bothered me since I noticed it a few days ago. Without cost reduction passives, I think the difference in cost is large enough that it should be addressed.

Magıc

3.9k for a shield that has been nerfed with the CP changes?

I know people are hating on sorcs RN but that will really make them useless.

Zarrakon

Magıc wrote: »

3.9k for a shield that has been nerfed with the CP changes?

I know people are hating on sorcs RN but that will really make them useless.

You might've missed the point of the post. It makes no sense that the sorcerer-only version of an armor skill ability is significantly (~25%) cheaper than the ability from the armor skill line. I'm asking for this as someone whose main character is a shield-reliant sorcerer...

And none of the shields have been nerfed with the CP changes. What the hell are you talking about?

peak99

Class defining skill. I vote no.

Xvorg

Magıc wrote: »

3.9k for a shield that has been nerfed with the CP changes?

I know people are hating on sorcs RN but that will really make them useless.

Cloak cost 4k magicka and last 3 secs

makreth

"Working as intented" move along.

Karm1cOne

Zarrakon wrote: »

Magıc wrote: »

3.9k for a shield that has been nerfed with the CP changes?

I know people are hating on sorcs RN but that will really make them useless.

You might've missed the point of the post. It makes no sense that the sorcerer-only version of an armor skill ability is significantly (~25%) cheaper than the ability from the armor skill line. I'm asking for this as someone whose main character is a shield-reliant sorcerer...

And none of the shields have been nerfed with the CP changes. What the hell are you talking about?

This is the defense of sorcs. Nbs have cloak, templar can heal and dk has mitigations. Don't homogonize all the classes for symmetry.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

Karm1cOne wrote: »

Zarrakon wrote: »

Magıc wrote: »

3.9k for a shield that has been nerfed with the CP changes?

I know people are hating on sorcs RN but that will really make them useless.

You might've missed the point of the post. It makes no sense that the sorcerer-only version of an armor skill ability is significantly (~25%) cheaper than the ability from the armor skill line. I'm asking for this as someone whose main character is a shield-reliant sorcerer...

And none of the shields have been nerfed with the CP changes. What the hell are you talking about?

This is the defense of sorcs. Nbs have cloak, templar can heal and dk has mitigations. Don't homogonize all the classes for symmetry.

Please don't call Cloak a defense it's buggy as all hell and gets "fixed" every single update AoE go through Cloak as they should but every one uses AoEs so it's rare that Cloak saves you.

Sorcerer being unchanged but any needs is outrageous they are a high performing class every other class took heavy hits on class defining powers.

Dragon Knights lose Major Mending cause that shield is just to small to be up long enough to heal anyone. Call it what it is a shield that small you will be be healing anyone with that.

Nightblades loss Siphoning Strikes the resource return will not cover the cost in a normal fight where you're not light attacking with every single attack. We loss the power to keep up the pressure and we get no resources call it like it is 8 attacks to recover is not a sustain power and the heal will not come anywhere close to making up for the lack of pressure against 4 classes with tanky passives and powers.

Templars loss just about everything that made them a unique healer class.

Sorcerer loss nothing shields unchanged, cost unchanged, recovery unchanged and worst of all the only outside of Heavy Attacks Dark Deal is the only sustain power that's completely untouched.

Uriel_Nocturne

This is the second thread I've seen regarding Sorcs and their Shields/Wards.

Makes me wonder: Am I the only person who runs a Sorc and sees zero need for Shields/Wards?

Pallio

So if they nerf sorc "MORE" on top of all the previous nerfs, you will feel better, cause in this perticular patch they appear to have not been nerfed as much as you. That somehow makes you class less nerfed?

Izaki

So you want to make a class specific skill worse than a skill everyone can get?

Drishtan

Magıc wrote: »

3.9k for a shield that has been nerfed with the CP changes?

I know people are hating on sorcs RN but that will really make them useless.

LMFAO they have a cost increase to be in line with others and you say sorc will be useless???? I spend 3.4k magic for my igenous shield and thats a 3k shield not a 10-15k one at 2.9k lol....


Try again....

Drishtan

Also I used to spend 4k magic on Dragons blood for a 400hp heal, yes thats right it used to heal for around 400 if you were above 33%...So yes you paying 3.9k for a shield will not break you....

Or you can just sit there and cry....

Juhasow

Yep OP have right. On top of that lets also make Breath of Life healing the same as healing springs , dk scales working the same as Defensive Posture , and lets move cloak to medium armor and many many more.

Lets kill diversity ! Who needs class abilities ?!




That was a troll post if someone didnt get that....

Dark_Aether

Karm1cOne wrote: »

Zarrakon wrote: »

Magıc wrote: »

3.9k for a shield that has been nerfed with the CP changes?

I know people are hating on sorcs RN but that will really make them useless.

You might've missed the point of the post. It makes no sense that the sorcerer-only version of an armor skill ability is significantly (~25%) cheaper than the ability from the armor skill line. I'm asking for this as someone whose main character is a shield-reliant sorcerer...

And none of the shields have been nerfed with the CP changes. What the hell are you talking about?

This is the defense of sorcs. Nbs have cloak, templar can heal and dk has mitigations. Don't homogonize all the classes for symmetry.

Where have you been? That ship has sailed and landed on the port of "Homogenization" two patch notes ago...Unless it is meant for Templar only.

Feanor

I ask it again: If you take away shields, what sort of defense do you want to give Sorcs instead?

Drishtan

Feanor wrote: »

I ask it again: If you take away shields, what sort of defense do you want to give Sorcs instead?

None you have bound armament/aegis....

Feanor

Sure, that Minor Ward for a whopping 1320 resists is a true life saver.

Zarrakon

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

So you want to make a class specific skill worse than a skill everyone can get?

No, but I don't want class-specific skills to be objectively, unquestionably better than skills everyone can get. I don't care that sorcerers prefer hardened ward/empowered ward over harness magicka/dampen magic (it's great that they do, it means their skills are good); I just don't think it should be such a clear-cut decision.

The ideal scenario is that all 4 fully morphed wards are unique in some way, with advantages and disadvantages to picking one over the other. Right now, there is absolutely no reason for a typical sorcerer to pick Dampen Magic over Hardened Ward, if there's a 1k cost different and Hardened Ward is typically stronger and shields your pet if you have one.

Juhasow wrote: »

Yep OP have right. On top of that lets also make Breath of Life healing the same as healing springs , dk scales working the same as Defensive Posture , and lets move cloak to medium armor and many many more.

Lets kill diversity ! Who needs class abilities ?!




That was a troll post if someone didnt get that....

Yes, this is a troll post. Breath of Life and Healing Springs aren't remotely comparable: one is an AOE heal-over-time, the other is a (semi-targeted) burst heal. Defensive Posture is a stamina ability, and scales (and its morphs) consumes magicka. Defensive Posture and its morphs also, incidentally, cost less and do less, which makes it perfectly fair.

I didn't say sorcerer abilities should be copied in other skill lines; but if a sorcerer ability exists in some form in another skill line, the class-specific version should have a clearly different flavor or be comparable in cost vs. strength, not just outright, objectively better.

Increasing the cost by 1k will not kill sorcerers in PvP or PvE, just bring its ability to shield more in line with the other magicka classes (and it'll still be able to shield up more because it has access to more shields). There's nothing wrong with this - sorcerer still has unique strengths in overload, surge, streak, negate and pets.

Feanor

Zarrakon wrote: »

No, but I don't want class-specific skills to be objectively, unquestionably better than skills everyone can get. I don't care that sorcerers prefer hardened ward/empowered ward over harness magicka/dampen magic (it's great that they do, it means their skills are good); I just don't think it should be such a clear-cut decision.

The ideal scenario is that all 4 fully morphed wards are unique in some way, with advantages and disadvantages to picking one over the other. Right now, there is absolutely no reason for a typical sorcerer to pick Dampen Magic over Hardened Ward, if there's a 1k cost different and Hardened Ward is typically stronger and shields your pet if you have one.

That's not true. There are scenarios where Harness Magicka is clearly the better choice - any situation with a heal debuff for example. Stage 7 vMA or stage 9 vMA for example. It should stay that way.

Zarrakon

Feanor wrote: »

Zarrakon wrote: »

No, but I don't want class-specific skills to be objectively, unquestionably better than skills everyone can get. I don't care that sorcerers prefer hardened ward/empowered ward over harness magicka/dampen magic (it's great that they do, it means their skills are good); I just don't think it should be such a clear-cut decision.

The ideal scenario is that all 4 fully morphed wards are unique in some way, with advantages and disadvantages to picking one over the other. Right now, there is absolutely no reason for a typical sorcerer to pick Dampen Magic over Hardened Ward, if there's a 1k cost different and Hardened Ward is typically stronger and shields your pet if you have one.

That's not true. There are scenarios where Harness Magicka is clearly the better choice - any situation with a heal debuff for example. Stage 7 vMA or stage 9 vMA for example. It should stay that way.

Yes. My point about a clear-cut better choice was really Hardened Ward over Dampen Magic.

Edit to add:

Feanor wrote: »

I ask it again: If you take away shields, what sort of defense do you want to give Sorcs instead?

Making the cost of a sorcerer's Hardened Ward 4k instead of 3k is not taking it away by any means.

SirDopey

Magıc wrote: »

3.9k for a shield that has been nerfed with the CP changes?

I know people are hating on sorcs RN but that will really make them useless.

Yeah I agree, think the sorc hating is going a little too far with all these requests for nerfs.

Shields have been nerfed through the cost reduction and recovery nerfs, I can't see how any build will be able to spam shields and do damage on the PTS so what's everyones issue?

SirDopey

Zarrakon wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

So you want to make a class specific skill worse than a skill everyone can get?

No, but I don't want class-specific skills to be objectively, unquestionably better than skills everyone can get. I don't care that sorcerers prefer hardened ward/empowered ward over harness magicka/dampen magic (it's great that they do, it means their skills are good); I just don't think it should be such a clear-cut decision.

The ideal scenario is that all 4 fully morphed wards are unique in some way, with advantages and disadvantages to picking one over the other. Right now, there is absolutely no reason for a typical sorcerer to pick Dampen Magic over Hardened Ward, if there's a 1k cost different and Hardened Ward is typically stronger and shields your pet if you have one.

Juhasow wrote: »

Yep OP have right. On top of that lets also make Breath of Life healing the same as healing springs , dk scales working the same as Defensive Posture , and lets move cloak to medium armor and many many more.

Lets kill diversity ! Who needs class abilities ?!




That was a troll post if someone didnt get that....

Yes, this is a troll post. Breath of Life and Healing Springs aren't remotely comparable: one is an AOE heal-over-time, the other is a (semi-targeted) burst heal. Defensive Posture is a stamina ability, and scales (and its morphs) consumes magicka. Defensive Posture and its morphs also, incidentally, cost less and do less, which makes it perfectly fair.

I didn't say sorcerer abilities should be copied in other skill lines; but if a sorcerer ability exists in some form in another skill line, the class-specific version should have a clearly different flavor or be comparable in cost vs. strength, not just outright, objectively better.

Increasing the cost by 1k will not kill sorcerers in PvP or PvE, just bring its ability to shield more in line with the other magicka classes (and it'll still be able to shield up more because it has access to more shields). There's nothing wrong with this - sorcerer still has unique strengths in overload, surge, streak, negate and pets.

Until the next patch when one of them gets removed due to unnecessary crying, and the patch after and the patch after.

I love how everyone is on here crying that ZOS wants the warden class to be the only class we all play next patch and then call for even more homogenization of classes.

Sorc's shielding, as annoying as it is in pvp, is a class identifying ability in this game. It's akin to asking for DK's lash or talons to be made so expensive it can't be used, or Templar's jabs or NB ambush/fear. All bloody annoying but all class identifying abilities

Xvorg

SirDopey wrote: »

Magıc wrote: »

3.9k for a shield that has been nerfed with the CP changes?

I know people are hating on sorcs RN but that will really make them useless.

Yeah I agree, think the sorc hating is going a little too far with all these requests for nerfs.

Shields have been nerfed through the cost reduction and recovery nerfs, I can't see how any build will be able to spam shields and do damage on the PTS so what's everyones issue?

Everything has been nerfed through the cost reductionand recovering nerfs... even non sorc shields.

That list includes talons, cloak, fear, BoL, annulment, magelight, and purge

Chairo_Kuma

peak99 wrote: »

Class defining skill. I vote no.

Like lets say Templar Shards.

Juhasow

Chairo_Kuma wrote: »

peak99 wrote: »

Class defining skill. I vote no.

Like lets say Templar Shards.

Like lets say Sorcerer Ball of Lightning.

Eirella

How about no.

Malamar1229

Drishtan wrote: »

Magıc wrote: »

3.9k for a shield that has been nerfed with the CP changes?

I know people are hating on sorcs RN but that will really make them useless.

LMFAO they have a cost increase to be in line with others and you say sorc will be useless???? I spend 3.4k magic for my igenous shield and thats a 3k shield not a 10-15k one at 2.9k lol....


Try again....

you also wear heavy armor

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

Pallio wrote: »

So if they nerf sorc "MORE" on top of all the previous nerfs, you will feel better, cause in this perticular patch they appear to have not been nerfed as much as you. That somehow makes you class less nerfed?

With all the nerfs Sorcs can still hang with zero problems every class had their sustain and burst cut forcing us to take more health and damage bonuses were as max magic still works wonders this update.

They can still recover 5-6k resources in a second with an auto heal on crits that will proc off of any kind of crit. Every other class has the power to do this in different ways all taken away one class still gaining full benefits from max resources, still has burst, still is highly mobile with no loss real to sustain.