Put ice staves into the pay to lose category

Mitoice

This item should be right beside the witches broom and the bucket helmet in my opinion.

Ice staves are the worst weapon in game... no wonder it got changed to a tanky weapon
Now instead of 0 people using it, 10 people are using it.

the only remote use is for the control... but for DPS and/or tanking? No way!!

Having a sword and shield far outshines having an ice staff why?
let see why..

1. sword and shield counts as 2 set items where the staff counts as one . For years weve been asking for this balance but no luck.


2. shield give an armor buff where an ice staff doesnt. Clearly a disadvantage.

3. Shield taunt is far more effective than staff taunt.

I dont see why as a tank... anyone would take an ice staff... even for controlling.. since warden has 3 abilities to control mobs or players without the use of a staff...

WalksonGraves

I'd say backbar for free ranged taunt but heavy attacks take so long it's pretty useless.

Mitoice

ranged taunt? yea, its called inner fire... and its waaay more effective... ice staves are simply too slow!!

Mitoice

Try it for yourself.. but switching from fire staff to ice staff will substract 5k dps from yoyr rotation.

leepalmer95

Staves and 2h's are 1 item and should not count as too.

The heavy taunt is pointless yes , ice staves used to be useful because of snares.

Alpheu5

Mitoice wrote: »

Try it for yourself.. but switching from fire staff to ice staff will substract 5k dps from yoyr rotation.

You're not supposed to be using it as a DPS weapon. On my mag sorc tank I have S&B on my main bar with my primary sustain stuff, and a defending ice staff on my back bar with crowd control and group support that gives me higher resistances than with the shield. If I know something like a knockdown is coming I'll swap over to blocking with my ice staff so breaking free or dodge rolling won't be an issue. It also has an advantage over Inner Fire in that during boss fights, you can refresh the taunt from range while closing the distance to reapply a proper puncture. It takes longer than Inner Fire, yea, but it frees up a slot for something more useful and restores magicka. Put on a warding glyph and you have yourself a nice little buffer as well.

sneakymitchell

I don't think so. They could do decent damage and can do minor maim on enemies. U can make a support DPS or tank or even support healer build with it. For DPS u may need to slot 2 destro staffs u can use wall of elements or u can light attack to proc the maim. Like next patch will help support diversity to builds and we need diversity in this game. The game kind of lacks for it mostly in pve. PvP u can do whatever cause u can't taunt players (but u can proc thing that taunt enemies).

Ch4mpTW

Eh...? When I used to PvP seriously, I ran a sharpened Master's Ice Staff (could be replaced with Maelstrom's Ice Staff and use a resource poison), and had relatively high success due to the constant immobilizes. However, due to Morrowind not making that strategy as viable — I don't really know if I'd go about attempting that in PvP with the next update.

brandonv516

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Staves and 2h's are 1 item and should not count as too.

The heavy taunt is pointless yes , ice staves used to be useful because of snares.

So how do you propose making ice staff tanking more appealing? Because they sure as *** are worthless right now.

Kneighbors

brandonv516 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Staves and 2h's are 1 item and should not count as too.

The heavy taunt is pointless yes , ice staves used to be useful because of snares.

So how do you propose making ice staff tanking more appealing? Because they sure as *** are worthless right now.

Look at what @Alpheu5 wrote. He just described you a very viable build for Ice Staff tank. Mag Sorc. This build is a wild thing in any vet dungeon, making in many situation better than DK tank with x2.5 more dps.

Runschei

As a tank myself I get kinda upset when someone steals my taunt at all times in a dungeon because they couldn't afford a flame or shock staff, or got tired of grinding one so they'll just stick with taunt-stealing.

Even worse if the frost staff user complains on me not taunting. Don't do heavy attacks then.

Ch4mpTW

Kneighbors wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Staves and 2h's are 1 item and should not count as too.

The heavy taunt is pointless yes , ice staves used to be useful because of snares.

So how do you propose making ice staff tanking more appealing? Because they sure as *** are worthless right now.

Look at what @Alpheu5 wrote. He just described you a very viable build for Ice Staff tank. Mag Sorc. This build is a wild thing in any vet dungeon, making in many situation better than DK tank with x2.5 more dps.

But here is the thing, that will only get you so far. Do you genuinely believe that 1 day Ice Staff Tanks or IST's will become a thing regarding trials? Even as an off-tank, that doesn't seem like a viable and wise decision. I'd not even recommend it for a simple trial, such as HRC.

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO

I use a Ice Staff on my Argonian healer Magicka Nightblade, I use a resto staff on one side and a Ice staff on the other. I am a Mobile healer and support unit when I run with my team in Cyrodiil, I use Destructive reach to immobilize the enemy while the Team DPS's them down, I am a healer and try to keep the team alive and I use Cloak to get out of dodge and escape if needed to put up a forward camp so the team can revive if needed

When at a Keep or outpost I use Icy Rage (the Ice Staff Ultimate) to stall the enemy from taking the keep and immobilizing them so the team can whittle the enemy down.

My job on this character is to try to create havoc for the enemy and to support and keep members of my team alive, if I can, I also have a Nice ranged Execute called Impale that does get extended by the Reach passive up to 33 meters and when I am with my team and in sneak or Cloak I apply it vigorously to low health enemies they are fighting, is it cheap, yeah, does it work.. definitely



If I need to Block I can use either my Stam with the resto staff or I can also tank with my Ice Staff and burn my Magicka.

Is this character a awesome Ganker/killer in PvP, no he isn't..... but he is a great support for my team I roll with.

wimhwimladimf

They should make Frost Staffs 1handed wands.

Lynx7386

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Staves and 2h's are 1 item and should not count as too.

The heavy taunt is pointless yes , ice staves used to be useful because of snares.

The only place you need snares is pvp, and that's the one place the taunt doesn't matter.

Megabear

All these complaints probably mean that it's a good idea to hoard all end game ice items, and sell them when they do get buffed

Blackbird_V

My suggested changes in bold:

Tank-Related

Tri Focus
Gain bonus effects based on your staff type: Fully-charged Flame Heavy Attacks deal 12% additional damage.
Shock Heavy Attacks damage nearby enemies for 100% of the damage done.
Fully-charged Frost Heavy Attacks increases your physical and spell resistance is increased by 5160 for 10 seconds. While a Frost Staff is equipped, it counts as towards 2 set-bonus.

Ancient Knowledge
Gain bonus effects based on your staff type while you have a Destruction Staff ability slotted:
Flame Staff increases your damage done with single target abilities by 8%.
Lightning Staff increases your damage done with area of effect abilities by 8%.
Frost Staff reduces the cost of blocking by 30% and increases the amount of damage you block by 25%.

---

Damage-Related


Gain bonus effects based on your staff type: Fully-charged Flame Heavy Attacks deal 12% additional damage.
Shock Heavy Attacks damage nearby enemies for 100% of the damage done.
Fully-charged Frost Heavy Attacks restores 25% more magicka and proves 5% bonus magicka regen for 5 seconds.

Ancient Knowledge
Gain bonus effects based on your staff type while you have a Destruction Staff ability slotted:
Flame Staff increases your damage done with single target abilities by 8%.
Lightning Staff increases your damage done with area of effect abilities by 8%.
Frost Staff immobilizes Chilled enemies for 4 seconds.

Wall of Elements
Slam your staff down to create an elemental barrier in front of you, dealing [X] Magic Damage to enemies in the target area every 1 second.
Gains a new effect depending on your staff type:
Wall of Fire deals extra damage to Burning enemies.
Wall of Storms sets Concussed enemies off-balance.
Wall of Frost applies Frostbitten status effect to chilled enemies.

Frostbitten Status Effect
Applies a 3 second DoT that ticks every 3 times every 1.5 seconds (once every 0.5 seconds) and damage gets lower as time goes on; however, applies a slow that gets more powerful as time goes on. The slow starts at like 2%(?) and increases by 2 every 0.5 seconds until reaches 3 seconds, so a maximum of a 12% slow.

Example (absolute random numbers):
Starts off dealing 6708 Magic Damage @ 0.5 seconds, 6102 @ 1 second, 5980 @ 1.5 seconds, 5477 @ 2 seconds, 5000 @ 2.5 seconds, 4950 @ 3 seconds.

^^^^ That may probably not be balanced at all whatsoever, but it's a suggestion with hopefully right number changing. I believe staves SHOULD NOT be used for tanking, as it makes no sense.

Tasear

because you aren't using it right. The ice staff is way you could balance resources. Though it would be more interesting if you could aggro players. ..say pvp.

Rev Rielle

I've tanked fine with a destruction staff as a Templar. Keep their attention; turn the enemy away; keep them still; block their heavy attack/s; interrupt their special attack/s where appropriate.

As far as I can tell (and have experienced from launch) the five most important things for a tank are basically down to the player; not their equipment.

Ice Staves don't bring quite as much as a sword and shield does, but that by no way means they're useless.

Cêltic421

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Staves and 2h's are 1 item and should not count as too.

The heavy taunt is pointless yes , ice staves used to be useful because of snares.

I think it should count as two. It's much bigger than a 1 hander so more magic powers or whatever can be in that 2hander.

central_scrutinizer

I like it as a backbar in pugs on my mag dps/healers if there's no tank and I want stuff on me, mostly because I'd rather have a taunt take up an inventory slot then a spot on bar, I sometimes like cold blockade too in the same type of situations, depending.

Paraflex

Odd

AcadianPaladin

I think that universally speeding up heavy attacks for all weapons seems pretty appropriate when I think about the sustain changes coming. Like so many other weapons, it seems ice staff could certainly benefit from this as well?

HatchetHaro

Only way I think ice staff tanking to be viable in the upcoming patch with all that nerf to sustain is just for swapping to a different resource for blocking to regenerate stamina. It's not even using the ice staff; just equip it in your backbar, and swap to it when your stamina runs low while continuing to hold block and taunt with Inner Fire.

bareheiny

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Staves and 2h's are 1 item and should not count as too.

The heavy taunt is pointless yes , ice staves used to be useful because of snares.

Well, they require two hands, just like a sword and board or dual wield, so they should count as two for set bonuses.


Honestly though, I have yet to hear a reasonable (or anything beyond "it counts as one item for the set bonus because it does") as to why two handed weapons shouldn't count as two items towards a set bonus.

Lynx7386

Tasear wrote: »

because you aren't using it right. The ice staff is way you could balance resources. Though it would be more interesting if you could aggro players. ..say pvp.

With one of the new armor sets, you CAN aggro players in pvp. The vanguard's challenge set causes your taunts in pvp to reduce the target's damage against everyone except you by 50%, while increasing the damage they deal to you by 100%

Lynx7386

Also, frost staff heavy attack + tremorscale is good in pvp even on live right now