The *** Invades Belkarth? Or just a Guild Initiation?

Majic

Based on the specious and highly unreliable testimony presented so far, I can conclude with great confidence that somebody, whether ZOS or some players, did something bad.

Who, exactly, remains an open question, but I've never let that shake my convictions before, and I'm not about to let it now.

Vaoh

Majic wrote: »

Based on the specious and highly unreliable testimony presented so far, I can conclude with great confidence that somebody, whether ZOS or some players, did something bad.

Who, exactly, remains an open question, but I've never let that shake my convictions before, and I'm not about to let it now.

Whatcha mean? The OP showed a video of the whole incident. What's not in the video is the side of people that want them unbanned because it's ridiculous and the side of people that hate them in-game and are ecstatic that this happened.

It's not too complicated a situation tbh. We know what happened as well as the details and that ZOS responded immediately with permabans. gg PS4 NA endgame PvE community

Majic

Vaoh wrote: »

Majic wrote: »

Based on the specious and highly unreliable testimony presented so far, I can conclude with great confidence that somebody, whether ZOS or some players, did something bad.

Who, exactly, remains an open question, but I've never let that shake my convictions before, and I'm not about to let it now.

Whatcha mean? The OP showed a video of the whole incident. What's not in the video is the side of people that want them unbanned because it's ridiculous and the side of people that hate them in-game and are ecstatic that this happened.

It's not too complicated a situation tbh. We know what happened as well as the details and that ZOS responded immediately with permabans. gg PS4 NA endgame PvE community

Truly, irony is not dead.

#LongLiveIrony

starkerealm

I'm sorry, we're supposed to believe these were permanent bans when players using cheat engine in Cyrodiil only got 3 days. When automated accounts receive no penalty for months at a time. But, you torch one Argonian, and everyone looses their mind?

CastaLyron

They got a ban for that?
Sure some people would draw a connection to racism, but it could also be harmless role play stuff. I think this is overkill, it's a game and every character is in principle a mass murderer of whatever races exist in the game, and that's not interpreted as racism. I guess they just got a lot of reports from haters, but a ban shouldn't be done on a vote by other players, only if you actually broke the terms of use.

CalydorEstalon

starkerealm wrote: »

I'm sorry, we're supposed to believe these were permanent bans when players using cheat engine in Cyrodiil only got 3 days. When automated accounts receive no penalty for months at a time. But, you torch one Argonian, and everyone looses their mind?

Of course. Special Snowflake #1475438 had his widdle feewings hurted. That's what it takes to get a permaban in today's world, because hurted feewings can get a lawsuit started; bots can't.

OutLaw_Nynx

I see they've started a thing on change.org to get unbanned... lol good luck

andreasranasen

CalydorEstalon wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

I'm sorry, we're supposed to believe these were permanent bans when players using cheat engine in Cyrodiil only got 3 days. When automated accounts receive no penalty for months at a time. But, you torch one Argonian, and everyone looses their mind?

Of course. Special Snowflake #1475438 had his widdle feewings hurted. That's what it takes to get a permaban in today's world, because hurted feewings can get a lawsuit started; bots can't.

Very obvious who you voted for

OutLaw_Nynx

andreasranasen wrote: »

CalydorEstalon wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

I'm sorry, we're supposed to believe these were permanent bans when players using cheat engine in Cyrodiil only got 3 days. When automated accounts receive no penalty for months at a time. But, you torch one Argonian, and everyone looses their mind?

Of course. Special Snowflake #1475438 had his widdle feewings hurted. That's what it takes to get a permaban in today's world, because hurted feewings can get a lawsuit started; bots can't.

Very obvious who you voted for

For real lol.

CalydorEstalon

andreasranasen wrote: »

CalydorEstalon wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

I'm sorry, we're supposed to believe these were permanent bans when players using cheat engine in Cyrodiil only got 3 days. When automated accounts receive no penalty for months at a time. But, you torch one Argonian, and everyone looses their mind?

Of course. Special Snowflake #1475438 had his widdle feewings hurted. That's what it takes to get a permaban in today's world, because hurted feewings can get a lawsuit started; bots can't.

Very obvious who you voted for

Okay, who did I vote for?

Spoiler tip: I'm in the EU somewhere.

fla-wrestlr

Definitely sounds like some haters are sending reports to ZOS, because look if you know these people then you know that the group shown consist of a mix of races. So to claim racism or whatever their reasoning behind a permaban should definitely be reviewed. Secondly I've played quite a bit with a couple of these people and they aren't bad or racist. If anything a lot of these guys have helped keep attention in the game and helpful by posting build videos, helping progression groups etc. (I'm not saying all of them are good people, some have drama surrounding them and I'm aware.. I'm just saying all 12 aren't bad people)

Marabornwingrion

Damn, that video got removed with ultra speed.

Sakiri

andreasranasen wrote: »

CalydorEstalon wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

I'm sorry, we're supposed to believe these were permanent bans when players using cheat engine in Cyrodiil only got 3 days. When automated accounts receive no penalty for months at a time. But, you torch one Argonian, and everyone looses their mind?

Of course. Special Snowflake #1475438 had his widdle feewings hurted. That's what it takes to get a permaban in today's world, because hurted feewings can get a lawsuit started; bots can't.

Very obvious who you voted for

US isn't the only country here.

I'm living with someone that shares that guy's sentiment and cannot vote in US elections because he's not American. He supported my vote for Cthulu.

Betheny

Have to walk on eggshells in this game, loads of people ready to report you for -anything- and Support staff won't help you once it's done, as they make their minds up and not in your favour.

Humphie

@Boozdog

Olupajmibanan

Permabans really? For this?

People these days get offended even for not being offended.

OGNZ3

Do not ban em for that stuff.

PvE doesnt need that.

Ch4mpTW

kyle.wilson wrote: »

Funny thing though is they knew better, cause about 6 months ago a bunch of people were permabanned on pc for the same thing.

Vaoh wrote: »

Runs wrote: »

Did they all have previous 3day/temp bans and this was a final straw thing? I just can't see them all getting permabanned for this. Warning, 3day ban? Sure... But a permaban I can only believe if a ZOS employee confirms such actions warrant that.

Maybe a few of them. Not even close to all of them though.

Whether or not they had previous temporary bans doesn't matter though. ZOS through out permabans on everyone for this.

What I find funny is that the leader himself of the guild was banned for cheating during the double AP event (he was 1 of the people who was exploiting), and had a reputation for being an exploiter and overall snobby person on PS4-NA. This is also the person who went out of their way to call themselves "exposing people" with YT videos, and all that jazz.

And for something as serious as what they did, it's "too harsh" that they have gotten permanently banned? Especially after all the crap that's going on IRL involving racism, and other things of the sorts? Y'all feel it's too harsh? I'm disappointed in this community yet again.

But more specifically, I'm disappointed in you @Vaoh the most for defending that type of behavior. Every since you got your Amberplasm, and got to hangout with the "top", you've changed. As most do who surround themselves with that group of people. You used to be different, but then again this was when you PvP'd for the most part. It was how I met you. Got added to "The Corp" guild, got your little Droma-Destroya title, solo'd some content, and got in tight with people who for the most part are strongly disliked, but because "elite" and you're suddenly so pure and superior. Suddenly those people can do no wrong, and are somehow make-up the top endgame players for PS4-NA? You forget where you came from. You forget who helped you reach where you were. You forget who even put you onto pet builds, and helped you farm gear. You forget who ya peoples were, before you became all cyber famous.

But that's not for public debate. I am just incredibly happy they received a ban, and swift action from ZOS' end. A lot of end-game players who are "elite" on PS4-NA truly are not so nice people. Just as the video shows. 1 can only hope that ZOS deals with the remaining jerks in a timely fashion, and is able to catch them in the act. If you're reading this @Mortehl by a chance, finally 1 of the guilds of jerks was dealt with by ZOS. ZOS really is cleaning up the nonsense.

Ch4mpTW

It's disturbing how something as extreme as racism has you all saying that the punishment handed out is too extreme and severe. It's disgusting actually. All because they're end-game players, and maybe have cyber fame? Gross. Absolutely atrocious. You guys don't know that a lot of the players banned trolled lower-level players in some mean and horrible ways. You guys don't know that some of those players have a reputation for being exploiters and really rude and elitist people. You guys don't know that some of them literally find entertainment by going out of their way to make other people's lives hell. N'ah. Y'all don't know that, or you don't care to know. Pathetic.

Massive_Stain

Lol some of them are in a guild I run with, and I talked to one of them yesterday during a VAA hm raid. They guy said that he wasn't permabanned but did recieve a three day.

Ch4mpTW

Massive_Stain wrote: »

Lol some of them are in a guild I run with, and I talked to one of them yesterday during a VAA hm raid. They guy said that he wasn't permabanned but did recieve a three day.

Out of curiosity... How could you talk to someone who's currently banned, and be doing a trial with them? Unless of course they're account sharing with someone, which is yet another serious offense. And no need to try and clean that up, as some of those banned are known folks in the PS4-NA community sell VMA and VMoL runs.

Vaoh

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

kyle.wilson wrote: »

Funny thing though is they knew better, cause about 6 months ago a bunch of people were permabanned on pc for the same thing.

Vaoh wrote: »

Runs wrote: »

Did they all have previous 3day/temp bans and this was a final straw thing? I just can't see them all getting permabanned for this. Warning, 3day ban? Sure... But a permaban I can only believe if a ZOS employee confirms such actions warrant that.

Maybe a few of them. Not even close to all of them though.

Whether or not they had previous temporary bans doesn't matter though. ZOS through out permabans on everyone for this.

What I find funny is that the leader himself of the guild was banned for cheating during the double AP event (he was 1 of the people who was exploiting), and had a reputation for being an exploiter and overall snobby person on PS4-NA. This is also the person who went out of their way to call themselves "exposing people" with YT videos, and all that jazz.

And for something as serious as what they did, it's "too harsh" that they have gotten permanently banned? Especially after all the crap that's going on IRL involving racism, and other things of the sorts? Y'all feel it's too harsh? I'm disappointed in this community yet again.

But more specifically, I'm disappointed in you @Vaoh the most for defending that type of behavior. Every since you got your Amberplasm, and got to hangout with the "top", you've changed. As most do who surround themselves with that group of people. You used to be different, but then again this was when you PvP'd for the most part. It was how I met you. Got added to "The Corp" guild, got your little Droma-Destroya title, solo'd some content, and got in tight with people who for the most part are strongly disliked, but because "elite" and you're suddenly so pure and superior. Suddenly those people can do no wrong, and are somehow make-up the top endgame players for PS4-NA? You forget where you came from. You forget who helped you reach where you were. You forget who even put you onto pet builds, and helped you farm gear. You forget who ya peoples were, before you became all cyber famous.

But that's not for public debate. I am just incredibly happy they received a ban, and swift action from ZOS' end. A lot of end-game players who are "elite" on PS4-NA truly are not so nice people. Just as the video shows. 1 can only hope that ZOS deals with the remaining jerks in a timely fashion, and is able to catch them in the act. If you're reading this Mortehl by a chance, finally 1 of the guilds of jerks was dealt with by ZOS. ZOS really is cleaning up the nonsense.

Omg.... what even is this?? How can you spill so much drama onto such an unrelated forum thread, simply because you feel I have the wrong opinion on this matter?

Champ, whether you like it or not, the only involvement I've had with you in ESO was 1 time I crossed you in Cyrodiil, a handful of farm runs you helped me in getting Amber Plasm (which I tried to repay you for, but you instead kept it as a sort of blackmail to use against me), and a handful of other random dungeon runs. This all happened over the course of a rather short period of time.

You are someone in particular that out of all of the people I'd consider friends or have added to my Friends list (which I will certainly change), I have ran content with the least. It has been a very long time since we have even seen each other in-game, yet you've harassed me now twice for whatever reason it is I cannot fathom. It looks like you think I owe you something. Absolutely not.

All of this about forgetting "where I came from", or who helped me reach where I am.... it's a bad joke. You have no idea what you are talking about and didn't help me at all learn to do anything whatsoever in ESO. It's makes me sick to think that someone would believe I would choose who to group with based on their opinion.

I'd appreciate if you completely avoided me from now on. I want nothing to do with someone who thinks they have some sort of control over me in a video game, or that everyone I associate with is strongly disliked and how I owe you something.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Ch4mpTW

Vaoh wrote: »

CalydorEstalon wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

I'm sorry, we're supposed to believe these were permanent bans when players using cheat engine in Cyrodiil only got 3 days. When automated accounts receive no penalty for months at a time. But, you torch one Argonian, and everyone looses their mind?

Of course. Special Snowflake #1475438 had his widdle feewings hurted. That's what it takes to get a permaban in today's world, because hurted feewings can get a lawsuit started; bots can't.

starkerealm wrote: »

I'm sorry, we're supposed to believe these were permanent bans when players using cheat engine in Cyrodiil only got 3 days. When automated accounts receive no penalty for months at a time. But, you torch one Argonian, and everyone looses their mind?

Pretty much

ZOS is very bad at understanding the priority on bans. Cheat Engine or Duping thousands of gold mats? Np maybe a 3-day ban

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

kyle.wilson wrote: »

Funny thing though is they knew better, cause about 6 months ago a bunch of people were permabanned on pc for the same thing.

Vaoh wrote: »

Runs wrote: »

Did they all have previous 3day/temp bans and this was a final straw thing? I just can't see them all getting permabanned for this. Warning, 3day ban? Sure... But a permaban I can only believe if a ZOS employee confirms such actions warrant that.

Maybe a few of them. Not even close to all of them though.

Whether or not they had previous temporary bans doesn't matter though. ZOS through out permabans on everyone for this.

What I find funny is that the leader himself of the guild was banned for cheating during the double AP event (he was 1 of the people who was exploiting), and had a reputation for being an exploiter and overall snobby person on PS4-NA. This is also the person who went out of their way to call themselves "exposing people" with YT videos, and all that jazz.

And for something as serious as what they did, it's "too harsh" that they have gotten permanently banned? Especially after all the crap that's going on IRL involving racism, and other things of the sorts? Y'all feel it's too harsh? I'm disappointed in this community yet again.

But more specifically, I'm disappointed in you @Vaoh the most for defending that type of behavior. Every since you got your Amberplasm, and got to hangout with the "top", you've changed. As most do who surround themselves with that group of people. You used to be different, but then again this was when you PvP'd for the most part. It was how I met you. Got added to "The Corp" guild, got your little Droma-Destroya title, solo'd some content, and got in tight with people who for the most part are strongly disliked, but because "elite" and you're suddenly so pure and superior. Suddenly those people can do no wrong, and are somehow make-up the top endgame players for PS4-NA? You forget where you came from. You forget who helped you reach where you were. You forget who even put you onto pet builds, and helped you farm gear. You forget who ya peoples were, before you became all cyber famous.

But that's not for public debate. I am just incredibly happy they received a ban, and swift action from ZOS' end. A lot of end-game players who are "elite" on PS4-NA truly are not so nice people. Just as the video shows. 1 can only hope that ZOS deals with the remaining jerks in a timely fashion, and is able to catch them in the act. If you're reading this Mortehl by a chance, finally 1 of the guilds of jerks was dealt with by ZOS. ZOS really is cleaning up the nonsense.

Omg.... what even is this?? How can you spill so much drama onto such an unrelated forum thread, simply because you feel I have the wrong opinion on this matter?

Champ, whether you like it or not, the only involvement I've had with you in ESO was 1 time I crossed you in Cyrodiil, a handful of farm runs you helped me in getting Amber Plasm (which I tried to repay you for, but you instead kept it as a sort of blackmail to use against me), and a handful of other random dungeon runs. This all happened over the course of a rather short period of time.

You are someone in particular that out of all of the people I'd consider friends or have added to my Friends list (which I will certainly change), I have ran content with the least. It has been a very long time since we have even seen each other in-game, yet you've harassed me now twice for whatever reason it is I cannot fathom. It looks like you think I owe you something. Absolutely not.

All of this about forgetting "where I came from", or who helped me reach where I am.... it's a bad joke. You have no idea what you are talking about and didn't help me at all learn to do anything whatsoever in ESO. It's makes me sick to think that someone would believe I would choose who to group with based on their opinion.

I'd appreciate if you completely avoided me from now on. I want nothing to do with someone who thinks they have some sort of control over me in a video game, or that everyone I associate with is strongly disliked and how I owe you something.

No problem. I will happily avoid you, nor never mention you again on these forums. I can promise you that. Enjoy posting up with Attacko and all of them. Then again, I should've known a leech from the jump.

You got your pet build from me originally, and originally had no interest in solo'ing content until I discussed how amazing @Thelon was to you. You never used pets until we discussed it, and you said we barely hung out? Lmao. Okay Vaoh. Or should I say Doncellius. Lmao. The whole reason you wanted Amberplasm was to try solo'ing White-Gold Tower. It was also why you took such an interest in pet builds, because of how much utility they bring to the table. And when I had explained this to you, and on a few occasions showed this to you. You grew more and more interested in those builds. This was when you did dungeons regularly with @UltimaJoe777 and I. Back when you thought it was a cool way to test yourself by doing content solo. And thus asked countlessly if I'd help you farm for it. I of course agreed, and you had agreed to help me farm gear. And I did help you. You never helped me once. Not once.

Wow. That's horrible. You really are what a lot of people say. You did a complete 180 change. I just may have to start PvP'ing again once Morrowind goes live, just in hopes that I do cross your path again. Just so that I can repeat history of that day when I met you on that bridge connecting Alessia and Sejanus. As for your opinion on said people? Keep it. You're clearly not the same person that I met a while back, nor as nice as you lead a lot of people on the forums to believe. But regardless, enjoy your experience in ESO. I wish you only the best, and look forward to running across you again in PvP in the future. That much I can promise you, Doncellius.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Dragonking06

I know I shouldn't but....




Did they seriously get Perma'd for this? And is the console PvE community really that small...? Damn.

kyle.wilson

If you were friends with those players, that permban might not be so permanent. I ran into a well known cheater that has returned from his permaban. (PCNA)

@ZOS_GinaBruno, why are they coming back?

Ch4mpTW

PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »

clj94104 wrote: »

They all got permabanned.

Now that's the best news I've heard so far this year. I don't need to see no Thule Society people in ESO.

Dragonking06 wrote: »

I know I shouldn't but....




Did they seriously get Perma'd for this? And is the console PvE community really that small...? Damn.

I say good riddance to them. And no, the console PvE community is not that small. It's too many heads who're popping up with interest in tackling end-game content, and show a genuine commitment in being a great player. What it is, is a bunch of elitist and jerks got caught and jammed up (finally), and just so happen to be end-game players who are seen regularly at the top. And those who are friends with them are flocking to the thread to try and brush off what happened, and make it seem like what they did wasn't that serious.

Vaoh

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

CalydorEstalon wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

I'm sorry, we're supposed to believe these were permanent bans when players using cheat engine in Cyrodiil only got 3 days. When automated accounts receive no penalty for months at a time. But, you torch one Argonian, and everyone looses their mind?

Of course. Special Snowflake #1475438 had his widdle feewings hurted. That's what it takes to get a permaban in today's world, because hurted feewings can get a lawsuit started; bots can't.

starkerealm wrote: »

I'm sorry, we're supposed to believe these were permanent bans when players using cheat engine in Cyrodiil only got 3 days. When automated accounts receive no penalty for months at a time. But, you torch one Argonian, and everyone looses their mind?

Pretty much

ZOS is very bad at understanding the priority on bans. Cheat Engine or Duping thousands of gold mats? Np maybe a 3-day ban

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

kyle.wilson wrote: »

Funny thing though is they knew better, cause about 6 months ago a bunch of people were permabanned on pc for the same thing.

Vaoh wrote: »

Runs wrote: »

Did they all have previous 3day/temp bans and this was a final straw thing? I just can't see them all getting permabanned for this. Warning, 3day ban? Sure... But a permaban I can only believe if a ZOS employee confirms such actions warrant that.

Maybe a few of them. Not even close to all of them though.

Whether or not they had previous temporary bans doesn't matter though. ZOS through out permabans on everyone for this.

What I find funny is that the leader himself of the guild was banned for cheating during the double AP event (he was 1 of the people who was exploiting), and had a reputation for being an exploiter and overall snobby person on PS4-NA. This is also the person who went out of their way to call themselves "exposing people" with YT videos, and all that jazz.

And for something as serious as what they did, it's "too harsh" that they have gotten permanently banned? Especially after all the crap that's going on IRL involving racism, and other things of the sorts? Y'all feel it's too harsh? I'm disappointed in this community yet again.

But more specifically, I'm disappointed in you @Vaoh the most for defending that type of behavior. Every since you got your Amberplasm, and got to hangout with the "top", you've changed. As most do who surround themselves with that group of people. You used to be different, but then again this was when you PvP'd for the most part. It was how I met you. Got added to "The Corp" guild, got your little Droma-Destroya title, solo'd some content, and got in tight with people who for the most part are strongly disliked, but because "elite" and you're suddenly so pure and superior. Suddenly those people can do no wrong, and are somehow make-up the top endgame players for PS4-NA? You forget where you came from. You forget who helped you reach where you were. You forget who even put you onto pet builds, and helped you farm gear. You forget who ya peoples were, before you became all cyber famous.

But that's not for public debate. I am just incredibly happy they received a ban, and swift action from ZOS' end. A lot of end-game players who are "elite" on PS4-NA truly are not so nice people. Just as the video shows. 1 can only hope that ZOS deals with the remaining jerks in a timely fashion, and is able to catch them in the act. If you're reading this Mortehl by a chance, finally 1 of the guilds of jerks was dealt with by ZOS. ZOS really is cleaning up the nonsense.

Omg.... what even is this?? How can you spill so much drama onto such an unrelated forum thread, simply because you feel I have the wrong opinion on this matter?

Champ, whether you like it or not, the only involvement I've had with you in ESO was 1 time I crossed you in Cyrodiil, a handful of farm runs you helped me in getting Amber Plasm (which I tried to repay you for, but you instead kept it as a sort of blackmail to use against me), and a handful of other random dungeon runs. This all happened over the course of a rather short period of time.

You are someone in particular that out of all of the people I'd consider friends or have added to my Friends list (which I will certainly change), I have ran content with the least. It has been a very long time since we have even seen each other in-game, yet you've harassed me now twice for whatever reason it is I cannot fathom. It looks like you think I owe you something. Absolutely not.

All of this about forgetting "where I came from", or who helped me reach where I am.... it's a bad joke. You have no idea what you are talking about and didn't help me at all learn to do anything whatsoever in ESO. It's makes me sick to think that someone would believe I would choose who to group with based on their opinion.

I'd appreciate if you completely avoided me from now on. I want nothing to do with someone who thinks they have some sort of control over me in a video game, or that everyone I associate with is strongly disliked and how I owe you something.

No problem. I will happily avoid you, nor never mention you again on these forums. I can promise you that. Enjoy posting up with Attacko and all of them. Then again, I should've known a leech from the jump.

You got your pet build from me originally, and originally had no interest in solo'ing content until I discussed how amazing @Thelon was to you. You never used pets until we discussed it, and you said we barely hung out? Lmao. Okay Vaoh. Or should I say Doncellius. Lmao.

Wow. That's horrible. You really are what a lot of people say. You did a complete 180 change. I just may have to start PvP'ing again once Morrowind goes live, just in hopes that I do cross your path again. Just so that I can repeat history of that day when I met you on that bridge connecting Alessia and Sejanus. As for your opinion on said people? Keep it. You're clearly not the same person that I met a while back, nor as nice as you lead a lot of people on the forums to believe. But regardless, enjoy your experience in ESO. I wish you only the best, and look forward to running across you again in PvP in the future. That much I can promise you, Doncellius.

Attacko ≠ Everyone he plays with

Just because someone is good doesn't mean they're elitist or hated. On the contrary, many are quite upstanding.

You need to get over your weirdo obsession believing everything I've done in ESO is in any way a product of yourself. I am not even some big name in the ESO community. On PS4 NA many know of me in endgame but I am always the nice guy and am very much one of the least elite ppl on the leaderboards.

You on the other hand have a very, very toxic hostory following you from the few I've heard from talking about you.

Also our pet builds are polar opposites, and I ran solo content in-game well before I found Thelon, whom you never introduced me too as you are intent on making it sound. My build has changed many times ever since I made one and is different in every solo I've accomplished. It's laughable you watch Thelon or myself solo content and then try to tell yourself you're the creator of the builds involved.

bloodthirstyvampire

Zos ban players without evidence just because another player told them too