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Macros and PvP

Vapirko
Vapirko
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So, animation cancelling is one thing, I personally have no problem with it and try to do it myself. Though due to lag and playing with 350+ latency it's often not feasible. However, it seems to be the opinion of many that lots of people in PvP are using macros to ani cancel, especially when it comes to linking kill chains including ultis. This definitely happens, shown by instances where you get hit by a string of attacks and an ulti and never see the animation go off for any of it, or lose 20k health to what looks like a single attack but the death recap says otherwise. Are macros considered cheating (definitely an exploit), and is it true that a solid number of players are very likely using them?
  • Turelus
    Turelus
    Community Ambassador
    Macros are against ToS.

    However unless ZOS investigates and find that the commands were done in a time which they don't consider humanly possible then it's very hard to prove if people use them.

    It's made worse with lag because sometimes what you might think is macro abuse is just the server sending you back all of the skills which hit you at once, although this seems to only be in slideshow levels of lag and not something I experienced often.
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  • crusnik91
    crusnik91
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    health desyn. That's the reason and u sometimes don't even notice it
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  • Vapirko
    Vapirko
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    Okay good to know. In terms of ultis, I'm just going off what other people have told me in game. The health desync happens constantly. I didn't know lag would cause say a dawnbreaker animation to not show up at all.
  • Vapirko
    Vapirko
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    Turelus wrote: »
    Macros are against ToS.

    However unless ZOS investigates and find that the commands were done in a time which they don't consider humanly possible then it's very hard to prove if people use them.

    It's made worse with lag because sometimes what you might think is macro abuse is just the server sending you back all of the skills which hit you at once, although this seems to only be in slideshow levels of lag and not something I experienced often.

    Weekend pop levels in TF+playing from SE Asia on NA servers will do it.
  • RajinPVP
    RajinPVP
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    300+ ping? Lols ! Macro will never work correctly with that kind of lag.. and macro will not bypass global cooldown.
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  • FearlessOne_2014
    FearlessOne_2014
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    'Can't macro that chain.' 'Macro will never work in lag.'

    Same nonsense people were spewing before a couple people leaving the game showed everyone how to do it effectively.

    Same story for the 'you can't cheat' crown before cheat engine was outed.

    Or the 'it's just a lucky streak' dodge exploit defenders until the cancelling trick got out.

    Or the 'it's a double icon and not a double mundus buff' crowd before that got outed. The best was the people posting videos and blacking out their buffs as if nobody would notice.

    Actually, no, the best was fighting the people you couldn't beat before ZoS cracked down and wiping them in seconds. That's evidence nobody could explain away...





    Yeah it's ok let the cheaters have their fun in the MMOs. *** like this just isn't much of a issue in competitive PvP eSports titles. CDs will not allow it plus all of the intrusive anti-cheat engine you'll see hackers and script kiddies cry about. So as long as they keep to their MMO-3rd world citizen PvP pool I can care less. Oh so what some cheater killed me. Not like I'm going to lose gear or 6 months of in game or IRL progression for dying.

    There is a reason any form of Competitive PvP a MMO title attempts fails. Because PvE genre is PvE genre. Competitive PvP games don't take 4 plus months to come out with meaningless balance patches. Competitive PvP games drops them every 1 to 3 weeks some times sooner, because PvP is their lively hoods, where MMO's lively hoods is fishing for PvE whales. Two completely different business models.
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  • DeviousCat
    Lag Lag Lag and never ending load screens, get used to it.
  • raasdal
    raasdal
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    Vapirko wrote: »
    Okay good to know. In terms of ultis, I'm just going off what other people have told me in game. The health desync happens constantly. I didn't know lag would cause say a dawnbreaker animation to not show up at all.

    Dawnbreaker can be almost entirely cancelled by AC. So it could also just be that.
    'Can't macro that chain.' 'Macro will never work in lag.'

    Same nonsense people were spewing before a couple people leaving the game showed everyone how to do it effectively.

    Same story for the 'you can't cheat' crown before cheat engine was outed.

    Or the 'it's just a lucky streak' dodge exploit defenders until the cancelling trick got out.

    Or the 'it's a double icon and not a double mundus buff' crowd before that got outed. The best was the people posting videos and blacking out their buffs as if nobody would notice.

    Actually, no, the best was fighting the people you couldn't beat before ZoS cracked down and wiping them in seconds. That's evidence nobody could explain away...





    Aha. Funny that all the "outings" happen, yet this age-old myth is still just that. A myth. No one has "shown how to macro properly" - because you cant - except for those simple cases i pointed out, or some weird gank combos. Should be an indication that it is all within your tinfoil hat.
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  • Wreuntzylla
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    raasdal wrote: »
    Vapirko wrote: »
    Okay good to know. In terms of ultis, I'm just going off what other people have told me in game. The health desync happens constantly. I didn't know lag would cause say a dawnbreaker animation to not show up at all.

    Dawnbreaker can be almost entirely cancelled by AC. So it could also just be that.
    'Can't macro that chain.' 'Macro will never work in lag.'

    Same nonsense people were spewing before a couple people leaving the game showed everyone how to do it effectively.

    Same story for the 'you can't cheat' crown before cheat engine was outed.

    Or the 'it's just a lucky streak' dodge exploit defenders until the cancelling trick got out.

    Or the 'it's a double icon and not a double mundus buff' crowd before that got outed. The best was the people posting videos and blacking out their buffs as if nobody would notice.

    Actually, no, the best was fighting the people you couldn't beat before ZoS cracked down and wiping them in seconds. That's evidence nobody could explain away...





    Aha. Funny that all the "outings" happen, yet this age-old myth is still just that. A myth. No one has "shown how to macro properly" - because you cant - except for those simple cases i pointed out, or some weird gank combos. Should be an indication that it is all within your tinfoil hat.

    Nobody arguing seriously defends something as impossible. At most, they say they don't know if its possible. Why do you say macroing is impossible?

    <sigh> <adjusts tin foil hat>

    Search the forums and youtube. There is at least one player explaining that you don't macro with ability delays.. You make a chain of abilities that are restricted in separate cooldowns and then set the macro to repeat x times, and the chain will fire appropriately at that point in time when it can fire. The video also explains that the ESO server disregards ultis that aren't up without causing a delay in gameplay, and ultis that are up fire appropriately in the sequence.

    Lag? What does lag matter when you cycle a chain like that and the ESO server only applies the next usable attack in the chain?

    In ESO history, certain combos have been extremely popular that were clearly inferior to using a different combo but players would say 'feels less responsive' or 'don't like the animation.' It turns out that the real reason is based on macroing restrictions.

    ambush-->LA-->Ulti-->surprise attack Nogo, ambush has no range restriction.
    crit rush -->LA-->Ulti-->surprise attack Works.

    A long time ago there were minimum range requirements on certain skills like snipe. Magnum shot has a maximum range restriction. Combos including snipe and magnum shot were all the rage. ZoS removed the minimum range restriction and overnight these builds were 'no longer relevant in the current meta.' Apparently magnum shot and poison injection, with magnum shot first in the rotation, works well also.


    Of course, if you add a cheat engine to violate cooldowns you get an even better result.

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/268389/a-message-from-zazeer-hacking


    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/fr/discussion/282957/the-amount-of-people-using-macros/p5




  • elijafire
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    Vapirko wrote: »
    So, animation cancelling is one thing, I personally have no problem with it and try to do it myself. Though due to lag and playing with 350+ latency it's often not feasible. However, it seems to be the opinion of many that lots of people in PvP are using macros to ani cancel, especially when it comes to linking kill chains including ultis. This definitely happens, shown by instances where you get hit by a string of attacks and an ulti and never see the animation go off for any of it, or lose 20k health to what looks like a single attack but the death recap says otherwise. Are macros considered cheating (definitely an exploit), and is it true that a solid number of players are very likely using them?

    Good to see macros are still going strong :) Dat dizzying swing/reverse slash sub 1 second is hillaaarious :)

    Bahamas was awesome btw.

    Eli
  • ChunkyCat
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    You can purchase a “gaming” mouse, with extra buttons. You can then program that mouse so that literally pushing one button will cast a skill and also engage block, thus negating the animation.

    When seconds matter, that seems like a useful trick.
  • Thogard
    Thogard
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    ChunkyCat wrote: »
    You can purchase a “gaming” mouse, with extra buttons. You can then program that mouse so that literally pushing one button will cast a skill and also engage block, thus negating the animation.

    When seconds matter, that seems like a useful trick.

    Or you could just hold down two fingers instead of one...

    Block cancelling when you’re dotted up is a bad idea.

    It’s like the people who accuse me of macroing a bash weave..
    Bruh. I only bash weave on my SNB bar. C’mon.

    To be clear, I’m sure some people do macro. It wouldn’t be hard to do.

    But I’m also sure that it wouldn’t be advantageous. Anything a macro could do, I could train my fingers to do in a day.
    Edited by Thogard on October 26, 2019 8:58AM
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  • NuarBlack
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    raasdal wrote: »
    Ah, it's time for one of these again?

    Unequip tinfoil hat, and realize that the scenario you are describing happens due to lag / health desync. Macro's does not allow you to do anything, that i can cannot do routinely.

    There are only TWO things macros can be used for in this game;

    1. LA / Skill and LA / Skill / Bash weaving with one button

    or

    2. Support stuff, like macroing potion change and consumption, allowing you to basically hotkey one specific potion, to one specific key.

    You cannot however use macro to chain skills like the OP mentions. Especially not cooldown skills like Ultimates or whatnot. Just not possible - the reason for those case, which looks like cheating to someone new to the game, are Lag Lag and more Lag. And then spiced with Health Desync, which to me is also just a kind of Lag.

    This actually isn't true and shows major ignorance.

    While macros can't let you bypass the global cooldown to land several skills at once and likely most macro users only use macros how you claim, they can be far more useful and powerful than what you state here if someone is really trying to "cheat."

    Sophisticated macroing programs that can access addon data can run conditional macros that perform a variety of actions based on checks through an addon. You can literally setup such sophisticated conditions as to play the game almost with one button. For example.

    You can set up a priority macro that will say, cast shields if they are down, if they are not move on to the the next conditional of frags if it is procced but if that conditional isn't met it moves on to the next and just casts your spamable all with one button macro.

    They can be even more sophisticated than this as well and even more like cheating depending on what information is available to addons client side. If incoming attack data is available you can set dodge and block priorities although I don't think this is possible since they moved to gut miats a year or two back so that info might not be available client side but priotizing an instant break free via macroing is definitely still a possibility and could explain some people's ability to break free almost before the stun takes affect.

    The simple fact is that macroing is more powerful than some will try to lead you to believe. It can do more than just chain a series of abilities to one button press or hotkey abilities. Anyone who claims otherwise is either super ignorant or has alterior motives. Luckily it's probably the first in most cases.
    Edited by NuarBlack on October 26, 2019 1:04PM
  • Arthg
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    This thread is two and a half years old.
    PC/EU. NoCP PvP. sDK Orc IRL. Flawless tamperor. AR 41+. CP 900+. Pro scrub.


  • ChunkyCat
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    Thogard wrote: »
    ChunkyCat wrote: »
    You can purchase a “gaming” mouse, with extra buttons. You can then program that mouse so that literally pushing one button will cast a skill and also engage block, thus negating the animation.

    When seconds matter, that seems like a useful trick.

    Anything a macro could do, I could train my fingers to do in a day.

    You can spend all day fingering your self, or you can buy a gaming mouse.

    Choose your own adventure.
  • VaranisArano
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    Arthg wrote: »
    This thread is two and a half years old.

    Yep. April 2017, guys.

    39bkzf.jpg
    (And so does ZOS.)
  • Rianai
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    NuarBlack wrote: »

    You can set up a priority macro that will say, cast shields if they are down, if they are not move on to the the next conditional of frags if it is procced but if that conditional isn't met it moves on to the next and just casts your spamable all with one button macro.

    And then you end up casting a shield because it just ran out, while your enemy is at 10% hp and not pressuring you at all, allowing him to heal up ...

    Ofc you can create a bot that basically plays the game on its own, but it won't come close to a (somewhat decent) player. Preset rotations will never work well in PvP, due to how unpredictable and varying the combat against other players is, even if you add conditional commands. The more you automate, the worse it will work in PvP, because the player loses control.
    Edited by Rianai on October 26, 2019 1:27PM
  • Grimlok_S
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    Thogard wrote: »
    ChunkyCat wrote: »
    You can purchase a “gaming” mouse, with extra buttons. You can then program that mouse so that literally pushing one button will cast a skill and also engage block, thus negating the animation.

    When seconds matter, that seems like a useful trick.

    Or you could just hold down two fingers instead of one...

    Block cancelling when you’re dotted up is a bad idea.

    It’s like the people who accuse me of macroing a bash weave..
    Bruh. I only bash weave on my SNB bar. C’mon.

    I've been haccused for bash weaving executioner.. but like, why wouldn't you?
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  • maxjapank
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    'Can't macro that chain.' 'Macro will never work in lag.'

    Same nonsense people were spewing before a couple people leaving the game showed everyone how to do it effectively.

    Same story for the 'you can't cheat' crown before cheat engine was outed.

    Or the 'it's just a lucky streak' dodge exploit defenders until the cancelling trick got out.

    Or the 'it's a double icon and not a double mundus buff' crowd before that got outed. The best was the people posting videos and blacking out their buffs as if nobody would notice.

    Actually, no, the best was fighting the people you couldn't beat before ZoS cracked down and wiping them in seconds. That's evidence nobody could explain away...

    Hahaha. So true. I remember one player who used to post vids of near back to back ultis. He and others would defend it saying it was possible to do it if you built right. Then came the meteor spam fest with cheat engine. That player disappeared from the game for a while after that. And yeah, quite a few players were noticeably weaker.
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  • Juhasow
    Juhasow
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    ChunkyCat wrote: »
    Thogard wrote: »
    ChunkyCat wrote: »
    You can purchase a “gaming” mouse, with extra buttons. You can then program that mouse so that literally pushing one button will cast a skill and also engage block, thus negating the animation.

    When seconds matter, that seems like a useful trick.

    Anything a macro could do, I could train my fingers to do in a day.

    You can spend all day fingering your self, or you can buy a gaming mouse.

    Choose your own adventure.

    Or You can have gaming mouse and click the additional buttons it have.
  • vamp_emily
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    I went outside while the servers were down and you won't believe it. I seen a UFO chasing Big Foot! Then this Midget hopped out of his car with a flamethrower and caught Big Foot on fire. It was crazy. The weird thing is the midget had an eso shirt on.

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  • marius_buys
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    JDC1985 wrote: »
    Macros don't do anything to help you in pvp

    Macros-user confirmed :) lol
  • Vanzen
    Vanzen
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    The light attck/skill macro might be the only one really usefull and reliable.

    I think any others more complicated would often fail due to lag and other factors.

  • idk
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    Turelus wrote: »
    Macros are against ToS.

    However unless ZOS investigates and find that the commands were done in a time which they don't consider humanly possible then it's very hard to prove if people use them.

    It's made worse with lag because sometimes what you might think is macro abuse is just the server sending you back all of the skills which hit you at once, although this seems to only be in slideshow levels of lag and not something I experienced often.

    True, that it is Zos that needs to investigate so it is players that need to report. It is hard for us to figure it out since what we receive is often influenced by server lag, hence the threads where a player is complaining about 5+ damaging attacks in one second.

    However, I do agree there are some players that use macros. Some are not very skilled and try to compensate for macros. It is no different than a player using a cheat engine, though probably easier to catch cheat engine.

    I have seen what could only be explained by a player using macros. I get attacked by gankers. The serious of attacks go off and nothing beyond that. They are clearly bad players because they cannot kill me. I have fished for the attacks to see if anything changed and it is the same attack that fails to get the job done. So either the players are insane, doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results, or they are truly pathetic players using macros.

    Truly good players do not use macros because it holds them back from improvising and improving. Yes, I know some streamers have used macros and have pointed it out. They are either demonstrating it can be done but I expect some are just showing their weakness.
    Really, idk
  • Sahidom
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    If they changed the key up to key down and run a script on the server to identify ms sequencing of keys commands, they can compute a list of players using macros. This would turn skills into more responsive skill usage and require the developers to insert some "quality control" coding which doesn't mean it's actual real time but the web can be set for players to fall into.
    Edited by Sahidom on October 26, 2019 3:56PM
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