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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8100050/#Comment_8100050
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8100050/#Comment_8100050
The amount of people using macros
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Armitas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Logically speaking, macros and human input represent the same optimal outcome, that is a list of events with the minimum possible delay. The difference is that macro's represent an actual optimal outcome, whereas human input represents a potentially optimal outcome. Potentially optimal outcomes are not always optimal outcomes, however actual optimal outcomes are always optimal by definition. External variables such as lag may interfere, but it does so without prejudice or discrimination between the two types of inputs.
Actual optimal outcomes are always better than potentially optimal outcomes. And so macros do provide a logical advantage however small that advantage may be perceived. But of course we all know this, this is why they are sold and bought. The debate shouldn't be about if they provide an advantage, it should be about is it a significant advantage.
Also ZOS should be clear on it. If macroing attacks is against the rules then it should be clearly described in the sticked exploit section of the pvp forums as well as a sticky in the General forums. It should also be a part of the knowledge base here so that anyone with any question about it can search for the answer.
Anyone can buy a macro device or download a program for it for free, they are not exclusive or even rare. The only thing exclusive about macros is the people that personally choose not to use them because they assume it is wrong and the people that don't care or assume ZOS doesn't care. That needs to stop, and that ball is in ZOS court. They need to stop tiptoeing around what is and is not an exploit and declare it specifically where it can be referenced. Stop putting the burden on the players and carry it yourself.Edited by Armitas on 4 August 2016 22:03Retired.
Nord mDK8 -
Hempyre✭✭✭✭@Armitas
Well said, a point or two however.
You are too dismissive in factoring lag and you did not include both player experience and intuition as factors.
Lag does impact macro timing and it's variable nature cannot be accounted for in the type of macro being discussed here. This equates to missed skill executions or sub-optimal timing. This is significant to the discussion.
An experienced player can use sensory input, intuition, and experience based timing to improve skill execution to bypass (somewhat) the impact of lag on their skill rotation to ani cancel in sub-optimal conditions.
A macro may help a mediocre player at times, but I would not consider its use superior to the reactions of an experienced player. And it certainly not "Jack's magic beans" as some posters would have you believe.
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bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lmao. Too funny. Just like every other thread this thread has been reduced to people saying "o well you don't agree that macros can bypass gcd, then you are a macro user defending it"
Lmao. I love the mentality on these forums. Too many people just spouting off nonsense. Your defense to saying you were killed it less than a second by 12 attacks is just complete nonsense. Outside of lag or multiple players doing it ofcourse. You can sit there and say you have experienced this until you are blue in the face but no competent player will ever believe you without proof.
You know how many people I have been in a group when I decide to go pugging believe that someone is cheating or macro using cause they died in a second. I ask these players to explain what happened to me and go back and look at their combat log to look at the exact timing of attacks etc just to explain to them a legitimate way in which it could be done. Further the amount of people that think something happened in a split second just to see that they exaggerated what they saw when they look at the timing in the combat log.
Sure there are ways to get hit by multiple attacks in an extremely short window but it requires the right combo of attacks such as snipe, heavy attack, gap closer, ultimately, bash, execute. There are so many legitimate ways to pull off combo attacks in a short period with animation canceling.
Most of the problem is people not understanding what they are seeing then they come to the forums and yell about what they do not understand. This then leads others that do not understand to say o ya me too and it goes on. Many of you just need to learn the mechanics and what combos work best in a short window with animation canceling.
Please stop with the bs arguments mentioned in the first sentence. They are crap and only serve to show your ignorance.
However, let me say this. If, and it is a big if, there are people bypassing gcd then the problem is deeper than using macro. It is people rewriting code in the game which s supplemented by the use of a macro. The macro is simply their vehicle to make it happen and not the fundamental problem. The only, I repeated ONLY, advantage a macro user has over a non-user is lack of human error. A side player will take down a player using a macro that has limited skill and rely on that macro. Bottom line, because a side player with hit most if not all of their own animation canceling without a macro and still have the skill to win.
Again, many of you are just too funny. #popcorntime2 -
Bam_Bam✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sounds like someone got macrosliced!
Serious, honest question - is the 'macro-slicing' a legit thing? I'm guessing yes? Also, you seem like a decent player - why would you use macro-slicing? Honestly just curious.Joined January 2014
PC EU - PvE & BGs & PvP (Vivec)
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Bam Bam Bara0 -
Armitas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭@Armitas
Well said, a point or two however.
You are too dismissive in factoring lag and you did not include both player experience and intuition as factors.
Lag does impact macro timing and it's variable nature cannot be accounted for in the type of macro being discussed here. This equates to missed skill executions or sub-optimal timing. This is significant to the discussion.
An experienced player can use sensory input, intuition, and experience based timing to improve skill execution to bypass (somewhat) the impact of lag on their skill rotation to ani cancel in sub-optimal conditions.
A macro may help a mediocre player at times, but I would not consider its use superior to the reactions of an experienced player. And it certainly not "Jack's magic beans" as some posters would have you believe.
Thanks.
When I used macro's in other games. I always left manual on with the option to macro the outcome, using my intuition or sensory input to distinguish between using the macro or manually causing the event to happen. Using macros doesn't turn off manual input, the ability for manual input and macro input can exist concurrently.
So lets say I wanted macro LA>Skill>Bash. I would simply add a button that does that, not remove my current manual capability.Edited by Armitas on 4 August 2016 22:49Retired.
Nord mDK3 -
EölMPK✭✭✭
I dont think he choose to use it, it seems to happen by a bugEöl[MPK]
PS4
Grungebr - Altmer magicka templar
Eölbr - Dunmer magicka necro
Drizztbr - Khajiit stamina nb"In my thoughts and in my dreams, they're always in my mind
These songs of hobbits, dwarves and men, and elves
Come close your eyes, you can see them too..."0 -
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
I dont think he choose to use it, it seems to happen by a bug
Yes but when the bug occurs FENGRUSH does greedily pound all of his attack keys in hopes of a good pounding when it finally hits lol . He certainly has his fun with it .3 -
kadar✭✭✭✭✭
✭Very entertaining listening to all the Macrocheaters defending macros, arguing they don't provide any advantage, and best of all, claiming they don't use them.
Here, you dropped your tinfoil hat.
I'll be everyone who's ever killed you was using cheat engine, too.
Luuuul^ QFT.starkerealm wrote: »Lord_Wrath wrote: »Fengrush has videos called macro slicing, sounds like this.
After all of his vitriol, I'm kinda surprised Fengrush hasn't gotten banned yet for any number of things he's done on stream.
That's probably because the folks working at ZOS have at least a basic understanding of the mechanic discussed in this thread, unlike the majority of posters here.0 -
kadar✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I'm not sure there's a way to intentionally reproduce it. It's happened to me probably as many times as it's happened to Fengrush. If you've got your timing down, you don't need to see your character performing attacks to continue attacking. When it happened to me, I kept pressing keys as if my character wasn't standing there' running through the air with my sword above my head like a moron.
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Firerock2✭✭✭✭✭many people uses macros
people saying macros giving you no advantage are coming in 3...2..1...
FFS. i can macro my keyboard to click 1 key every 0.01 second? thats 100 keys in one seconds, now tell me again macros are slow and tell me more about the "global cool down"
for your information, you can light or heavy attack shield bash and use skill under 1 second with macros, please tell me again about the global cool down
Please record a video doing 100 attacks in under one second1 -
kadar✭✭✭✭✭
✭many people uses macros
people saying macros giving you no advantage are coming in 3...2..1...
FFS. i can macro my keyboard to click 1 key every 0.01 second? thats 100 keys in one seconds, now tell me again macros are slow and tell me more about the "global cool down"
for your information, you can light or heavy attack shield bash and use skill under 1 second with macros, please tell me again about the global cool down
Please record a video doing 100 attacks in under one second
You're in for a long wait. He doesn't understand what a GCD is, and how it works in this game. You'd think people would just google a GCD before they post a salt-loaded comment about a GCD...1 -
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The_Outsider wrote: »many people uses macros
people saying macros giving you no advantage are coming in 3...2..1...
FFS. i can macro my keyboard to click 1 key every 0.01 second? thats 100 keys in one seconds, now tell me again macros are slow and tell me more about the "global cool down"
for your information, you can light or heavy attack shield bash and use skill under 1 second with macros, please tell me again about the global cool down
Please record a video doing 100 attacks in under one second
You're in for a long wait. He doesn't understand what a GCD is, and how it works in this game. You'd think people would just google a GCD before they post a salt-loaded comment about a GCD...
The only way for macros to bypass global cool down is with cheat engine as some of us have watched on video thanks to Zazeer and his friends / associates wat ever . It does not change the fact macros are against the rules and fall in as exploits here as DaryaK noted earlier . You use them and get caught , even on PTS , you get in trouble .
Why this conversation has devolved past what the OP posted , I don't know . I'm guessing some people want to say macros are no big deal ? Idk idc . They're against the rules .4 -
Dredlord✭✭✭✭✭Rohamad_Ali wrote: »The_Outsider wrote: »many people uses macros
people saying macros giving you no advantage are coming in 3...2..1...
FFS. i can macro my keyboard to click 1 key every 0.01 second? thats 100 keys in one seconds, now tell me again macros are slow and tell me more about the "global cool down"
for your information, you can light or heavy attack shield bash and use skill under 1 second with macros, please tell me again about the global cool down
Please record a video doing 100 attacks in under one second
You're in for a long wait. He doesn't understand what a GCD is, and how it works in this game. You'd think people would just google a GCD before they post a salt-loaded comment about a GCD...
The only way for macros to bypass global cool down is with cheat engine as some of us have watched on video thanks to Zazeer and his friends / associates wat ever . It does not change the fact macros are against the rules and fall in as exploits here as DaryaK noted earlier . You use them and get caught , even on PTS , you get in trouble .
Why this conversation has devolved past what the OP posted , I don't know . I'm guessing some people want to say macros are no big deal ? Idk idc . They're against the rules .
Yep its the same fail arguments from the same fail players...
Basically if we give exploit a cutesy name like macroslice, then its OK. "Awe dood you just got macrosliced, macros are fine l2p"
Or..
Macros are fine cuz of GCD, no advantage here! Pros dont need macros to pull this off so its fine if I use them cuz uhm GCD....
It is interesting to see who uses macros by reading threads like this though.4 -
NovaShadow✭✭✭✭✭If you play PVP long enough you'll know who uses em by name alone, those insta kills by like 8 attacks in a single second. It's blatantly obvious.
Anyone who says macro's don't exists is most likely using em themselves.PC NA - EPHS6 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭NovaShadow wrote: »If you play PVP long enough you'll know who uses em by name alone, those insta kills by like 8 attacks in a single second. It's blatantly obvious.
Anyone who says macro's don't exists is most likely using em themselves.
ughhh read the thread macros dont bypass gcd.1 -
Kalante✭✭✭✭✭
✭fengrush calls it a macro slice because it looks like a macro is being executed but it is not really a macro it's just crit rush being bugged. In reality when he hits crit rush he already reached that person and he is attacking regularly but you do not see that because in the game it looks like you are still trying to crit rush. Is that really that hard to understand??Edited by Kalante on 5 August 2016 00:532 -
Dredlord✭✭✭✭✭fengrush calls it a macro slice because it looks like a macro is being executed but it is not really a macro it's just crit rush being bugged. In reality when he hits crit rush he already reached that person and he is attacking regularly but you do not see that because in the game it looks like you are still trying to crit rush. Is that really that hard to understand??
And did you know that exploit with the cutesie name is even easier to pull off with a macro? Is that really that hard to understand?
Macros make it easier to exploit bugs. Is that really that hard for you to understand?
Some bugs aren't even exploitable without a macro. Is that really that hard for you to understand?
What the *** is wrong with you? Be a learner for a change.4 -
Kalante✭✭✭✭✭
✭fengrush calls it a macro slice because it looks like a macro is being executed but it is not really a macro it's just crit rush being bugged. In reality when he hits crit rush he already reached that person and he is attacking regularly but you do not see that because in the game it looks like you are still trying to crit rush. Is that really that hard to understand??
And did you know that exploit with the cutesie name is even easier to pull off with a macro? Is that really that hard to understand?
Macros make it easier to exploit bugs. Is that really that hard for you to understand?
Some bugs aren't even exploitable without a macro. Is that really that hard for you to understand?
What the *** is wrong with you? Be a learner for a change.
The funny thing is you don't need macros to do the crit rush macro slice. What are you even talking about? are you responding about crit rush? or macros in general? because the crit rush macro slice only works when there is severe lag, i have done it on ps4. It's funny and i get a few laughs out of it. Being stuck in the animation and then seeing the person instantly drop on the floor is priceless. You dont even need to use reverse slice or executioner it could be any skill really. Iv'e executed people with killers blade. I should call it the micro blade.Edited by Kalante on 5 August 2016 01:550 -
Dredlord✭✭✭✭✭Brightxdawn wrote: »EP NA PC infamous macro users and they openly admit it in guild chats
But that is impossible because GCD!!!
/Thread2 -
Elder_Night✭✭✭NovaShadow wrote: »Elder_Night wrote: »
The name alone...
What?I'll blow your eyeballs off their hinges0 -
Lokey0024✭✭✭✭✭Ive seen macroing on consoles. Use a xim4 and you can auto set a light attack/heavy attack~dps ability. Or igneous~vigor. Or pre program a keystroke sequence on a gamepad. Why do you think the game starts bogging down when you fight certain people. Is it because they are so badass they personally lag the server?4 -
OGLezard✭✭✭✭✭
✭Elder_Night wrote: »
It's faster than that. Watch fengrushes video a few pages back @Elder_Night
Side note: that voice though ^_^Edited by OGLezard on 5 August 2016 03:050 -
Wreuntzylla✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭timidobserver wrote: »Some people use macros yes, but they are not necessary to do a burst combo in PvP. Some skills, like crit rush and dragon leap, are extremely animation cancel friendly.
True and I am able to LA/Ability/Bash in about 1 sec. If can't however jump around from rock to rock backwards while doing it... It's amazo how many can. With that 600 effective apm they could be game tourney Champs but instead they decided to play ESO!1 -
kadar✭✭✭✭✭
✭Rohamad_Ali wrote: »The_Outsider wrote: »many people uses macros
people saying macros giving you no advantage are coming in 3...2..1...
FFS. i can macro my keyboard to click 1 key every 0.01 second? thats 100 keys in one seconds, now tell me again macros are slow and tell me more about the "global cool down"
for your information, you can light or heavy attack shield bash and use skill under 1 second with macros, please tell me again about the global cool down
Please record a video doing 100 attacks in under one second
You're in for a long wait. He doesn't understand what a GCD is, and how it works in this game. You'd think people would just google a GCD before they post a salt-loaded comment about a GCD...
The only way for macros to bypass global cool down is with cheat engine as some of us have watched on video thanks to Zazeer and his friends / associates wat ever . It does not change the fact macros are against the rules and fall in as exploits here as DaryaK noted earlier . You use them and get caught , even on PTS , you get in trouble .
Why this conversation has devolved past what the OP posted , I don't know . I'm guessing some people want to say macros are no big deal ? Idk idc . They're against the rules .
I think it has devolved so far because of the misinformation being spread about. People attribute things they don't understand to the infamous "macro." You and I know that a macro is bound by the coding of the game, but not everyone is aware of that.
It's not that people are defending the use of macros. Most are simply trying to give people a more accurate understanding of what they are actually capable of. I've been in TS with people who yell, "OMG that filthy macro user just killed me," when I watched the event and they just cancelled a heavy attack with a poison injection or something...I get rage tells after executing the simplest of combinations, and honestly it's getting old...
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bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭The_Outsider wrote: »Rohamad_Ali wrote: »The_Outsider wrote: »many people uses macros
people saying macros giving you no advantage are coming in 3...2..1...
FFS. i can macro my keyboard to click 1 key every 0.01 second? thats 100 keys in one seconds, now tell me again macros are slow and tell me more about the "global cool down"
for your information, you can light or heavy attack shield bash and use skill under 1 second with macros, please tell me again about the global cool down
Please record a video doing 100 attacks in under one second
You're in for a long wait. He doesn't understand what a GCD is, and how it works in this game. You'd think people would just google a GCD before they post a salt-loaded comment about a GCD...
The only way for macros to bypass global cool down is with cheat engine as some of us have watched on video thanks to Zazeer and his friends / associates wat ever . It does not change the fact macros are against the rules and fall in as exploits here as DaryaK noted earlier . You use them and get caught , even on PTS , you get in trouble .
Why this conversation has devolved past what the OP posted , I don't know . I'm guessing some people want to say macros are no big deal ? Idk idc . They're against the rules .
I think it has devolved so far because of the misinformation being spread about. People attribute things they don't understand to the infamous "macro." You and I know that a macro is bound by the coding of the game, but not everyone is aware of that.
It's not that people are defending the use of macros. Most are simply trying to give people a more accurate understanding of what they are actually capable of. I've been in TS with people who yell, "OMG that filthy macro user just killed me," when I watched the event and they just cancelled a heavy attack with a poison injection or something...I get rage tells after executing the simplest of combinations, and honestly it's getting old...
This1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXb-ADHdvhc
This discussion has been closed.