Dropped sets SHOULD be better than crafted.

Vizier

Keep_Door wrote: »

wolfdoggie_ESO wrote: »

Current RNG system doesn't award hard work so why? It's pure luck that you get those sets. I rather just skip the whole thing and craft everything instead of that eternal frustration till something is improved about it.

Im sorry "hard work" ....? Isnt this a video gamed played for fun.........

Since when did any games become "hard work" ?

Rng is rng praise him and you shall be rewarded.

Not letting you get away with this one. Your OP asserts things should be different based on the TIME effort involved. And then here you want to reverse this and suggest that time effort isn't hard work because this is a game in order to support your original claim.

Listen. You don't have a leg to stand on here. This is one of the biggest Troll posts I've seen over the years with no basis in logic or reason. The original claim simply isn't thought out very well and would be a terrible idea to implement. Just drop it. You lost this one.

vyrzeden

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

vyrzeden wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

vyrzeden wrote: »

If it could be done all over:


2d) Gold tempers drop in vet trials at a % chance, 100% from vet trial bosses.
2e) Tempers of all kinds are also rewarded in PvP at whatever levels are commiserate with PvE diffculty.
2f) Possibly tempers as quest rewards.


There ya go. All gear is crafted by crafters with the best sets still requiring a certain number of researched traits. Thus crafters supply the best sets and all are on equal footing except with regards to time spent researching.

I would be strongly against that.. Why would I, as a crafter, have to be forced into trials/PvP to get a better chance for my gold tempers?

If you are going to quote me, why don't you quote the whole thing?

4) Tempers are NOT BoP and can be sold.

If crafters can sell to trial runners/PvP, why can't they turn around and sell to crafters?

I qouted the parts I needed

I know that you want them to be sellable.. But I would be against a system that makes it that much harder for me to get them, since I have absolutely 0 interest in trials and/or PvP.. As it is now, I can get them by doing what I've done the whole time.. Crafting

So your complaints against a system like this are completely selfish. Understandable. But it's not like equipment isn't already gated behind hard content like vMSA and such. And then we can go down the always fun path of "You don't need gold tempers to play the crafting game, that stuff is NEEDED for vet trials".

In-game economies need a dichotomy: crafters shouldn't have a monopoly on highly desirable equipment, but then neither should raiders. Granted this only partially works since raiders can become 9-trait crafters with time and thus can do it all themselves, but again, this system is a fantasy anyway. I guess we just stick with the least common denominator, such as 1T dropped sets like spinners/necro/etc.

masterbroodub17_ESO

vyrzeden wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

vyrzeden wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

vyrzeden wrote: »

If it could be done all over:


2d) Gold tempers drop in vet trials at a % chance, 100% from vet trial bosses.
2e) Tempers of all kinds are also rewarded in PvP at whatever levels are commiserate with PvE diffculty.
2f) Possibly tempers as quest rewards.


There ya go. All gear is crafted by crafters with the best sets still requiring a certain number of researched traits. Thus crafters supply the best sets and all are on equal footing except with regards to time spent researching.

I would be strongly against that.. Why would I, as a crafter, have to be forced into trials/PvP to get a better chance for my gold tempers?

If you are going to quote me, why don't you quote the whole thing?

4) Tempers are NOT BoP and can be sold.

If crafters can sell to trial runners/PvP, why can't they turn around and sell to crafters?

I qouted the parts I needed

I know that you want them to be sellable.. But I would be against a system that makes it that much harder for me to get them, since I have absolutely 0 interest in trials and/or PvP.. As it is now, I can get them by doing what I've done the whole time.. Crafting

So your complaints against a system like this are completely selfish. Understandable. But it's not like equipment isn't already gated behind hard content like vMSA and such. And then we can go down the always fun path of "You don't need gold tempers to play the crafting game, that stuff is NEEDED for vet trials".

In-game economies need a dichotomy: crafters shouldn't have a monopoly on highly desirable equipment, but then neither should raiders. Granted this only partially works since raiders can become 9-trait crafters with time and thus can do it all themselves, but again, this system is a fantasy anyway. I guess we just stick with the least common denominator, such as 1T dropped sets like spinners/necro/etc.

Right, I think we should have rng drops and then another system on top of it where you get materials or tokens or something of that ilk.

Keep the rng, make it take a *** of tokens to get a specific piece.

If you make it TOO easy then you end up with WoW and FFXIV problems of nobody being motivated to do anything except trials. This is known as the raid-log effect and I don't want to see it happen in ESO

STEVIL

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

Jollygoodusername wrote: »

"Dungeons should be where we take our best gear. Not where we get it." x Infinite THIS.

Think about it in terms of a film or Novel, even a history book. When seeking a relic, artifact of legend or just gold, the party always brings it's best equipment, especially so in the Greek mythos!

This is a lovely idea, but then where's the carrot? Without the ability to actually improve your character by doing a dungeon / trial / etc, I can guarantee that the population of players doing that content will fall by no less than 90%. Without the carrot, very few want to chase the stick. We're not exactly the Argonauts here, we're just MMO players who love their shinies. The game will become Elder Crafters Online (Heavy Attack Addition).

The structure of the modern MMO is dependent on being able to obtain the best gear by going into the hardest dungeons and raids. If ZOS' original goal was to oppose this system and push crafting, they must have realized exactly what I'm saying here at some point, didn't want a nonexistent endgame, and decided to change their vision. Changes like these happen to all MMOs.

A lot of the arguments coming from the crafting side are about time invested. I put X hours into researching all these traits, getting all these motifs, spent X gold. So what? So what if you spent hundreds of hours learning traits? All that really entails is getting a bunch of zone drops, pressing a few buttons while staring at a crafting table, and twiddling your collective thumbs for days / weeks/ months. It isn't hard, nor does it take skill or any sort of competence with game mechanics. It's time consuming, but that's about it.

As I've said earlier and in other threads, I'm fine with crafters who are dedicated and have all these traits / motifs being able to craft gear that is NEARLY BiS, perhaps with very similar set bonuses to dropped trial gear. However, this gear must be soulbound to them alone.

Regardless of how the game started out, it's clear that the current "soul" of the game is aligned with other modern MMOs, which is a system of instanced endgame progression. As such, the best gear needs to go to players who have displayed great skill and mastery of the combat system while in these instances.

Now, if bosses dropped unique crafting components instead of RNG gear pieces, and these components required master craftsmen to create the best gear from them, it might be something of a compromise. This would have to come with the crafted item being only equippable by the player who received the component drop from the boss, however. It would help reduce RNG, encourage endgame PvErs to also craft, and provide a high source of income for dedicated crafters who do not do this content.

The carrot could be many things.

One suggestion I gave was an extra mundus blessing. Have each dungeon delve trail linked to specific blessings which time out after a bit with variables based on difficulties.

Lotsa of such options are imagined... Temporary favors - not perms gear best in the world and let temp favor replace the horrific trait grind.


As for so what? So what if a w0ish weapon skill had no place of significance in any end game? Folks would be pushing for that being fixed, not dismissing its investments.

vyrzeden

masterbroodub17_ESO wrote: »

vyrzeden wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

vyrzeden wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

vyrzeden wrote: »

If it could be done all over:


2d) Gold tempers drop in vet trials at a % chance, 100% from vet trial bosses.
2e) Tempers of all kinds are also rewarded in PvP at whatever levels are commiserate with PvE diffculty.
2f) Possibly tempers as quest rewards.


There ya go. All gear is crafted by crafters with the best sets still requiring a certain number of researched traits. Thus crafters supply the best sets and all are on equal footing except with regards to time spent researching.

I would be strongly against that.. Why would I, as a crafter, have to be forced into trials/PvP to get a better chance for my gold tempers?

If you are going to quote me, why don't you quote the whole thing?

4) Tempers are NOT BoP and can be sold.

If crafters can sell to trial runners/PvP, why can't they turn around and sell to crafters?

I qouted the parts I needed

I know that you want them to be sellable.. But I would be against a system that makes it that much harder for me to get them, since I have absolutely 0 interest in trials and/or PvP.. As it is now, I can get them by doing what I've done the whole time.. Crafting

So your complaints against a system like this are completely selfish. Understandable. But it's not like equipment isn't already gated behind hard content like vMSA and such. And then we can go down the always fun path of "You don't need gold tempers to play the crafting game, that stuff is NEEDED for vet trials".

In-game economies need a dichotomy: crafters shouldn't have a monopoly on highly desirable equipment, but then neither should raiders. Granted this only partially works since raiders can become 9-trait crafters with time and thus can do it all themselves, but again, this system is a fantasy anyway. I guess we just stick with the least common denominator, such as 1T dropped sets like spinners/necro/etc.

Right, I think we should have rng drops and then another system on top of it where you get materials or tokens or something of that ilk.

Keep the rng, make it take a *** of tokens to get a specific piece.

If you make it TOO easy then you end up with WoW and FFXIV problems of nobody being motivated to do anything except trials. This is known as the raid-log effect and I don't want to see it happen in ESO

It already is too easy if you think about it. I'll use myself as an example. I've been playing a magsorc for about a month but with only a little over 300CP currently from my year-old NB-turned-crafter. Around level 40 I started considering dungeons but I was only DPS while I was leveling up. The shortest path to get through the queue for me was simply pick up resto and queue as a healer.

This was trivial. I read a book to get resto to 2. Skill point into grand healing. Then started a "quest turn in bar" that I had hot-keyed using an add-on. Right before I turn a quest in, switch bars, turn-in, then switch back (Don't need the weapon equipped, just the skill(s) on the bar). Spent skill points on new resto skills/morphs I read were good and did this all the way to 50 resto. I hadn't ONCE actually equipped a resto staff.

I hit 50 in restoration and finally started trying out healing in PvP to get the hang of things. Then just started randomly queuing for vet dungeons. Haven't had too many issues (tempest island was a bear last night, but we got through it pug-style, no scroll though). In 2 weeks I have illambris, IG, Grothdar, stormfist and a couple others completed. Most with bad traits but my IG is decent (divines medium, infused heavy).

I bought necropotence off guild vendors, mix of infused chest/legs and divines for the remaining body slots. Gold tempers are easy to get and I used my crafter alt to upgrade everything (what, 9 skill points to get that down as low as it can go?). Willpower jewelry, random sharpened lightning staves/powered resto staff and I'm now sitting at very few upgrades.

There's some lucky RNG in there, but that's pretty easy in my book.

Floki_Vilgerdarson

Keep_Door wrote: »

This should be easy for anyone to understand. I mean a crafted set you can make the perfect trait 100% of the time get all the pieces you need and not to mention in your favorite style.

Dropped sets take time, hours, weeks, hell sometimes even months to get the prefect traits.

That being said crafting shouldnt be useless. I dont think it is. Sure compared to some dropped sets crafted sets seem week but thats how it should be.

You realize I spent over a year learning every trait and millions of gold learning motifs? You OP are lazy.

Joy_Division

It should be ambiguous so we aren't sure which is stronger and thus would strive to test and use both.