Can the game have both online and offline mode?

Syncronaut

I would love to see, dont show any players mode. It would make citys bereable at peak times.

Other players will still see you, but they wont be able to request a duel, wisper or trade.

Only akward thing would be seeing npcs murdered and npcs killed infront of you.

Violynne

Can any game have an offline mode anymore?

I can't even remember the last time I tried to play a game without an internet connection.

Today, each "demands" I be online to play.

And I'm on a gorram console!

PouletRico

DeadlyPhoenix wrote: »

Basically when you're in offline mode your game will save every 5 minutes automatically with no way to turn it off. It will also save when doing special things such as leveling up, traveling and loading.

Not doable in offline mode, you could always turn if off in a way.

DeadlyPhoenix wrote: »

Every time the game saves it will save a log of your character at that exact moment; including all skills, gold, CP, Tel Var, etc. Again, the save feature might take a while, it might need spaced out, who knows, it's irrelevant at this point. Just assume technical issue things such as that are irrelevant from here on out. However it being basically just a text lot of values it really shouldn't take much memory.

I actually think it could take a lot of memory, every single action must be recorded, just imagine how many records for 1 hour of gameplay... Wayyyy to hard to achieve for the benefits, and people could generate "fake gameplay": just play 1 hour, and you could use this save multiple time.

DeadlyPhoenix wrote: »

Now I know what you're thinking. In offline mode one can simply hack values for XP and gold so you could become max CP (including unusable CP) and a multibillionaire in a matter of seconds. However, with this there is a cap to how much XP you can gain in a given time frame, say 20k XP every 2 minutes and 10-15k gold every hour. This way no matter if they're hacking or not they can only gain so much XP and gold per hour and when they go back to online mode it will check the logs to see that everything is legit. There is also a set amount overall that you can gain per week/month while you're in offline mode. This will be significantly lower than your possible earnings online just for the sake of keeping things fair. I don't know a good number for XP but I would say maybe 50k max per day and 500k gold per month. This method would apply to Tel Var stones as well, though you would gain them at a significantly lower rate with a much lower cap since there is no risk other than death by NPC. These numbers are obviously up to ZOS and what they think would be fair.

So basically, if I want to hack, I just need to make a robot who adds 20k XP and 15k gold into each of my characters, relogs online and then wait one hour and do it again... Even with a week/month cap, it will unbalance the game.

NordSwordnBoard

Sure, right after they add multiplayer to Skyrim!

Feanor

Offline mode would be awesome when the day comes they shut the servers down for good. Before that? Nah.

anitajoneb17_ESO

akl77 wrote: »

Offline mode base game with PVEs would be nice, so you can play if you don't have internet connection or just want to do PVE contents for the time being, or to stop lag and crashes due to high traffic.

The problem is, if you're progressing in PvE offline, your progress will be saved on your HDD somewhere - instead of on the server - and anyone could hack it... creating problems when going back online.
There could be, however, a 100% offline version where you never go online, ever.
But I'm not sure such a game would be so entertaining, since it is not designed as a solo game. Almost all solo AAA games out there would provide a better game experience than "ESO offline".

anitajoneb17_ESO

Blacksmoke wrote: »

This is a MMO..

That's not enough a reason. Just because a car isn't a bedroom doesn't mean you cannot sleep in it.

anitajoneb17_ESO

mocap wrote: »

they could add some kind of an old Veteran "hide all newbies" mode, so you can see only CP or even CP 160+ players. Or even solo mode like in Path of Exile. But not offline, too much client-server data transfers. Impossible.

How would an offline mode create client-data transfers ? Isn't "no transfer" the definition of "offline" ?

Sevalaricgirl

Rosveen wrote: »

No. The cheating would be ridiculous. The only way to do it would be to create two completely separete versions that never interact with each other - but that's a pointless waste of resources. It'd be nice to get something like this when the servers inevitably shut down, though.

So who cares if you cheat if you play in offline mode? Waste of resources yes, cheating who cares.

Feanor

Sevalaricgirl wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

No. The cheating would be ridiculous. The only way to do it would be to create two completely separete versions that never interact with each other - but that's a pointless waste of resources. It'd be nice to get something like this when the servers inevitably shut down, though.

So who cares if you cheat if you play in offline mode? Waste of resources yes, cheating who cares.

If the modes are strictly separated, maybe. But that’s not what this thread is about. It’s about being able to do PvE offline and still get achievements and gear you then can use in the online mode. At least that’s how I understand it because otherwise an offline mode doesn’t make much sense.

Prof_Bawbag

Free and uninterrupted craglorn farms, heavy sack farms and a host of other stuff. That right there is why it should never be available offline. That and it would become a gold sellers wet dream.

Minyassa

I would love it, if it was the same as Neverwinter Nights where you could have your own server and invite friends to come play with you on your server. That would be a dream come true, group content with people of my choosing and no griefers. There would never be any reason for me to go into online mode, so different versions of the game instead of a "mode" would work just great for me.

Juju_beans

Violynne wrote: »

Can any game have an offline mode anymore?

I can't even remember the last time I tried to play a game without an internet connection.

Today, each "demands" I be online to play.

And I'm on a gorram console!

Last game I played that had the two modes was Diablo 2 LoD.
But you had different characters for each mode and couldn't play the same character on both modes.
I liked it because you could mod the heck out of the offline mode and be god-like while playing and it had no effect on your online characters/game.

starkerealm

Rhoric wrote: »

This is a MMO therefor there is no offline mode and never can be. In my 17 years of MMO gaming I have never heard of a MMO having a offline mode.

I can think of one: Hellgate London.

Problem was, they had to maintain two separate code forks for online and offline. Flagship Studios folded inside of a year after launch. Which was a real shame, since HGL was pretty good. The IP went to a Korean company and the game was relaunched as a F2P without the offline component.

starkerealm

Knowledge wrote: »

Maybe there can just be another game called Elder Scrolls Offline.

If only there were single player games set on Tamriel. I mean, we could have an offline version of Cyrodiil exclusively for PvE...

Cpt_Teemo

Maybe once you converted to single player you can't convert your account back would be the compromise if they ever did do it

starkerealm

PouletRico wrote: »

DeadlyPhoenix wrote: »

Basically when you're in offline mode your game will save every 5 minutes automatically with no way to turn it off. It will also save when doing special things such as leveling up, traveling and loading.

Not doable in offline mode, you could always turn if off in a way.

DeadlyPhoenix wrote: »

Every time the game saves it will save a log of your character at that exact moment; including all skills, gold, CP, Tel Var, etc. Again, the save feature might take a while, it might need spaced out, who knows, it's irrelevant at this point. Just assume technical issue things such as that are irrelevant from here on out. However it being basically just a text lot of values it really shouldn't take much memory.

I actually think it could take a lot of memory, every single action must be recorded, just imagine how many records for 1 hour of gameplay... Wayyyy to hard to achieve for the benefits, and people could generate "fake gameplay": just play 1 hour, and you could use this save multiple time.

DeadlyPhoenix wrote: »

Now I know what you're thinking. In offline mode one can simply hack values for XP and gold so you could become max CP (including unusable CP) and a multibillionaire in a matter of seconds. However, with this there is a cap to how much XP you can gain in a given time frame, say 20k XP every 2 minutes and 10-15k gold every hour. This way no matter if they're hacking or not they can only gain so much XP and gold per hour and when they go back to online mode it will check the logs to see that everything is legit. There is also a set amount overall that you can gain per week/month while you're in offline mode. This will be significantly lower than your possible earnings online just for the sake of keeping things fair. I don't know a good number for XP but I would say maybe 50k max per day and 500k gold per month. This method would apply to Tel Var stones as well, though you would gain them at a significantly lower rate with a much lower cap since there is no risk other than death by NPC. These numbers are obviously up to ZOS and what they think would be fair.

So basically, if I want to hack, I just need to make a robot who adds 20k XP and 15k gold into each of my characters, relogs online and then wait one hour and do it again... Even with a week/month cap, it will unbalance the game.

The other problem with those caps is they're unreasonable. XP isn't awarded in a consistent linear fashion (from running normal content), it's distributed in fast bursts, spread out over time. A couple times I've burned my enlightenment within 5 minutes of receiving it. That's 400k XP in less than five minutes. Same thing is true of gold generation. I've got a character that, I could log onto right now, and pull down at least 30k (probably 50k) from a single set of merchant interactions. So, while that's the result of more extensive grinding, the actual gold payout is much higher.

I mean, the basic problem in all of this is, if you want an online and an offline version of a game, you really cannot trust locally saved character data for any meaningful content.

Juju_beans

If you had 2 modes then you essentially have 2 different games.

DeadlyPhoenix

PouletRico wrote: »

DeadlyPhoenix wrote: »

Basically when you're in offline mode your game will save every 5 minutes automatically with no way to turn it off. It will also save when doing special things such as leveling up, traveling and loading.

Not doable in offline mode, you could always turn if off in a way.

DeadlyPhoenix wrote: »

Every time the game saves it will save a log of your character at that exact moment; including all skills, gold, CP, Tel Var, etc. Again, the save feature might take a while, it might need spaced out, who knows, it's irrelevant at this point. Just assume technical issue things such as that are irrelevant from here on out. However it being basically just a text lot of values it really shouldn't take much memory.

I actually think it could take a lot of memory, every single action must be recorded, just imagine how many records for 1 hour of gameplay... Wayyyy to hard to achieve for the benefits, and people could generate "fake gameplay": just play 1 hour, and you could use this save multiple time.

DeadlyPhoenix wrote: »

Now I know what you're thinking. In offline mode one can simply hack values for XP and gold so you could become max CP (including unusable CP) and a multibillionaire in a matter of seconds. However, with this there is a cap to how much XP you can gain in a given time frame, say 20k XP every 2 minutes and 10-15k gold every hour. This way no matter if they're hacking or not they can only gain so much XP and gold per hour and when they go back to online mode it will check the logs to see that everything is legit. There is also a set amount overall that you can gain per week/month while you're in offline mode. This will be significantly lower than your possible earnings online just for the sake of keeping things fair. I don't know a good number for XP but I would say maybe 50k max per day and 500k gold per month. This method would apply to Tel Var stones as well, though you would gain them at a significantly lower rate with a much lower cap since there is no risk other than death by NPC. These numbers are obviously up to ZOS and what they think would be fair.

So basically, if I want to hack, I just need to make a robot who adds 20k XP and 15k gold into each of my characters, relogs online and then wait one hour and do it again... Even with a week/month cap, it will unbalance the game.

First, how would you turn it off when I said there is no way to turn it off? You couldn't because there is no option for it. Turning it off would cause you to fail the very first check and thus anything you did doesn't matter anyway as it will not accept it and your character remains the same.

Second, yes as I said, it could potentially take up a lot of memory depending on how long you go before returning to online mode. However generating fake gameplay is false. Once again the checks would prevent any tampering of logs and/or values otherwise you cannot use that character anymore. It would need to be done right, an entire anticheat program written from scratch, but could theoretically work.

As for the rest of your argument, yes technically if you found a way, you could cheat the system and create yourself gold and stuff for free, but again, you will risk having your character locked and potentially being banned since you know they will run a check. Anyone caught trying to chest the system should and would be banned. Also you're forgetting I set a cap on how much you can gain each day/week/month and this applies to all characters. I've never seen anyone make 100k an hour without the help of guild traders, so if one of the logs show you made a ton of gold in a short time, it's sent off for review, locking you out of your character.

Gold could be extremely limited in offline mode because let's face it, it's basically useless other than buying from other players. Apart from repair costs, there really isn't much need to buy things and anyone buying up say 10000s of repora, well let's just say I had ideas for that as well to stop people abusing things.

I understand your arguments, but in a hypothetical system that works flawlessly, the issues you describe other than memory don't hold up as that's the whole point of precautions anyway.

Also please remember I did say I had a lot more to expand on, however it seems it was already too much for people to read so I won't be wasting my time

Zardayne

Rhoric wrote: »

This is a MMO therefor there is no offline mode and never can be. In my 17 years of MMO gaming I have never heard of a MMO having a offline mode.

As an old MMO vet myself I recently heard of one and had to share with you. Just when you thought there can be no way leave it to Lord British to find it.

https://mmorpg.com/shroud-of-the-avatar/columns/offline-is-on-1000011832

DeadlyPhoenix

Zardayne wrote: »

Rhoric wrote: »

This is a MMO therefor there is no offline mode and never can be. In my 17 years of MMO gaming I have never heard of a MMO having a offline mode.

As an old MMO vet myself I recently heard of one and had to share with you. Just when you thought there can be no way leave it to Lord British to find it.

https://mmorpg.com/shroud-of-the-avatar/columns/offline-is-on-1000011832

Unfortunately though, in my opinion, Lord British and Blackthorn failed us with SotA. Ultima Online will forever be my favorite MMO of all time and shroud was a huge disappointment for me. I wanted so badly to like it, and it's not horrible altogether, but it's not UO either.

Yzalirk

The whole point of an MMO is playing online with many people, not offline solo play.

PouletRico

DeadlyPhoenix wrote: »

First, how would you turn it off when I said there is no way to turn it off? You couldn't because there is no option for it. Turning it off would cause you to fail the very first check and thus anything you did doesn't matter anyway as it will not accept it and your character remains the same.

This is where I lost you, once the software is on my computer (not connected to the internet), I can modify it the way I want, looking into the bytecode and remove the moment where the game saves my character. This is exactly how crack works (like for Photoshop or any other softwares...). Again, once the software is on my computer, I can modify it the way I want, without ZOS to known about my modifications.

DeadlyPhoenix wrote: »

Second, yes as I said, it could potentially take up a lot of memory depending on how long you go before returning to online mode. However generating fake gameplay is false. Once again the checks would prevent any tampering of logs and/or values otherwise you cannot use that character anymore. It would need to be done right, an entire anticheat program written from scratch, but could theoretically work.

Same as before, I can make my robot play for me, generating a list of records that look perfectly good. Then I just need to insert it into my game. And voila.

DeadlyPhoenix wrote: »

As for the rest of your argument, yes technically if you found a way, you could cheat the system and create yourself gold and stuff for free, but again, you will risk having your character locked and potentially being banned since you know they will run a check. Anyone caught trying to chest the system should and would be banned. Also you're forgetting I set a cap on how much you can gain each day/week/month and this applies to all characters. I've never seen anyone make 100k an hour without the help of guild traders, so if one of the logs show you made a ton of gold in a short time, it's sent off for review, locking you out of your character.

Just read the answer from starkerealm.

DeadlyPhoenix wrote: »

Also please remember I did say I had a lot more to expand on, however it seems it was already too much for people to read so I won't be wasting my time

Well, I do think some features might be doable, but a complete online/offline mode isn't. It would be an endless race between ZOS and hackers. I do get your point of view, I don't want to enter an endless and useless argument either.

DeadlyPhoenix

PouletRico wrote: »

DeadlyPhoenix wrote: »

First, how would you turn it off when I said there is no way to turn it off? You couldn't because there is no option for it. Turning it off would cause you to fail the very first check and thus anything you did doesn't matter anyway as it will not accept it and your character remains the same.

This is where I lost you, once the software is on my computer (not connected to the internet), I can modify it the way I want, looking into the bytecode and remove the moment where the game saves my character. This is exactly how crack works (like for Photoshop or any other softwares...). Again, once the software is on my computer, I can modify it the way I want, without ZOS to known about my modifications.

DeadlyPhoenix wrote: »

Second, yes as I said, it could potentially take up a lot of memory depending on how long you go before returning to online mode. However generating fake gameplay is false. Once again the checks would prevent any tampering of logs and/or values otherwise you cannot use that character anymore. It would need to be done right, an entire anticheat program written from scratch, but could theoretically work.

Same as before, I can make my robot play for me, generating a list of records that look perfectly good. Then I just need to insert it into my game. And voila.

DeadlyPhoenix wrote: »

As for the rest of your argument, yes technically if you found a way, you could cheat the system and create yourself gold and stuff for free, but again, you will risk having your character locked and potentially being banned since you know they will run a check. Anyone caught trying to chest the system should and would be banned. Also you're forgetting I set a cap on how much you can gain each day/week/month and this applies to all characters. I've never seen anyone make 100k an hour without the help of guild traders, so if one of the logs show you made a ton of gold in a short time, it's sent off for review, locking you out of your character.

Just read the answer from starkerealm.

DeadlyPhoenix wrote: »

Also please remember I did say I had a lot more to expand on, however it seems it was already too much for people to read so I won't be wasting my time

Well, I do think some features might be doable, but a complete online/offline mode isn't. It would be an endless race between ZOS and hackers. I do get your point of view, I don't want to enter an endless and useless argument either.

Right, I get your point. My point though is that if it's done right and their checks are done right, any tampering of the logs at all, even opening them would flag the character/account. It would have to be a very extensive anticheat system for it to work and there will always be ways around them, but as long as you maintain and stay on top of updates for it, while being vigilant in checking into things, it could work.

Not everything would even be available to offline characters and some stuff earned would be locked behind offline play only. Editing your online character would be difficult because they have logs of what it was and what it should look like.

Like I said, it's a hypothetical system that works flawlessly, however in real life we know there will always be flaws. Won't be done for ESO at any rate, but it is possible to be done and that is what I was trying to say.

jircris11

akl77 wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

No. The cheating would be ridiculous. The only way to do it would be to create two completely separete versions that never interact with each other - but that's a pointless waste of resources. It'd be nice to get something like this when the servers inevitably shut down, though.

But dark souls and bloodborn can play either online or offline.
When you feel like group content or PVP, go online mode.

that may be but have you SEEN the amount of modders and cheaters on there?

Saturnana

DeadlyPhoenix wrote: »

As for the rest of your argument, yes technically if you found a way, you could cheat the system and create yourself gold and stuff for free, but again, you will risk having your character locked and potentially being banned since you know they will run a check. Anyone caught trying to chest the system should and would be banned. Also you're forgetting I set a cap on how much you can gain each day/week/month and this applies to all characters. I've never seen anyone make 100k an hour without the help of guild traders, so if one of the logs show you made a ton of gold in a short time, it's sent off for review, locking you out of your character.

How would those checks differentiate between gold that was earned the old-fashioned way, and ill-gotten wealth, when people purposefully stay within the hard caps that you suggest? Truth is, these kinds of hacks have plagued other online/offline games and counteracting them is pretty difficult. Why would ZOS bother if there are - like others have pointed out - single-player games readily available and set in the same universe / world as this MMO.

DeadlyPhoenix

lnsane wrote: »

DeadlyPhoenix wrote: »

As for the rest of your argument, yes technically if you found a way, you could cheat the system and create yourself gold and stuff for free, but again, you will risk having your character locked and potentially being banned since you know they will run a check. Anyone caught trying to chest the system should and would be banned. Also you're forgetting I set a cap on how much you can gain each day/week/month and this applies to all characters. I've never seen anyone make 100k an hour without the help of guild traders, so if one of the logs show you made a ton of gold in a short time, it's sent off for review, locking you out of your character.

How would those checks differentiate between gold that was earned the old-fashioned way, and ill-gotten wealth, when people purposefully stay within the hard caps that you suggest? Truth is, these kinds of hacks have plagued other online/offline games and counteracting them is pretty difficult. Why would ZOS bother if there are - like others have pointed out - single-player games readily available and set in the same universe / world as this MMO.

First of all ESO is not like any elder scrolls game. It plays and feels completely different and is a huge world. It's like comparing Apples to Oranges. That's why some people would like an offline version of it and don't just "go play Skyrim"....

I'm not saying the game would be perfect, and yeah you could exploit, but only in a very minor way. You have to read the entirety of my posts, not just pick and choose. For the sake of keeping things simple I've been primarily focusing on gold, as that's something everyone wants. I stated the amount of gold you could make in a given time frame could be extremely low. I've stated that checks would be in place that are extensive to see if anything was tampered with backchecking it with their previous online saved logs. Exploiting or hacking could potentially be caught and punished for very minimal gains. So is it worth losing your entire account for 100k a month?

Some items such as upgrade mats and gear upgraded or acquired in offline would not be transferable to online. You could use any gear or resources brought with you from online, but cannot take offline acquired goods online with you. However you will have access to them should you return offline. Storage would be irrelevant on the offline version and much more mainstream.

But please, move on from the gold and stuff. Ask me about another feature as I've already covered this quite extensively.

The only thing you could do is quest and work on achievements, gather skyshards and lore books, that kind of stuff. Nothing significant can be gained that gives an advantage over another player online. That is one of the points I am trying to make. It's possible and with little to no impact on the community.

Tommy_The_Gun

It has offline mode but it is not very playable...

starkerealm

Juju_beans wrote: »

If you had 2 modes then you essentially have 2 different games.

Yeah, that was basically the problem for Flagship Studios with Hellgate London. They had two separate, parallel, games in development. Actually, still kinda sad that the final patches never made it over to the single player client. The game got a lot better online right before the plug was pulled.

Zardayne

DeadlyPhoenix wrote: »

Zardayne wrote: »

Rhoric wrote: »

This is a MMO therefor there is no offline mode and never can be. In my 17 years of MMO gaming I have never heard of a MMO having a offline mode.

As an old MMO vet myself I recently heard of one and had to share with you. Just when you thought there can be no way leave it to Lord British to find it.

https://mmorpg.com/shroud-of-the-avatar/columns/offline-is-on-1000011832

Unfortunately though, in my opinion, Lord British and Blackthorn failed us with SotA. Ultima Online will forever be my favorite MMO of all time and shroud was a huge disappointment for me. I wanted so badly to like it, and it's not horrible altogether, but it's not UO either.

I feel the same way