I warned ya, Warden puts the W in P2W.

Rohamad_Ali · April 2017

I always wait until last round testing before I go ballistic caps lock unleashed fury full forum Warrior but I admire everyone's passion and may end up agreeing . But standards say I have to wait to keep excellent in posting .

brandonv516 · April 2017

Shadow_Viper_vX wrote: »

If you don't like it/them, don't buy it/them.

That simple

The best way a customer can communicate their displeasure if with their wallet.

The complaining threads are just getting annoying at this point

Get used to it. I'm all for the complaining threads - the forums are a minority and our wallets are realistically a very small part of the picture. What else do we have? Our gripes.

DaveMoeDee · April 2017

Pallio wrote: »

This is the definition of P2W, when you have to spend $$ to play a viable class.

Pay your $$ = Win, or gimp along on some other class.

Yeah, like when they require me to buy ESO in order to have a Templar healer in the past...

Pay gates are fine if we are talking about an annual expansion. I have been critical of the bait and switch involved with Morrowind and ESO+, but I have no issue with people who won't spend $40/year being second class citizens so long as it is clear that spending that is basically the baseline.

What I would not find acceptable is making a new class more powerful than other classes across the board on purpose. I also would not accept making a new class more powerful at the clear specialty of another class, such as making Warden better than Templar at healing, IF that is the case.

I find it silly that some people assume they will purposefully make warden more powerful than other classes when Imperial has not been considered the best class for particular builds for a while now. People claimed it was pay to win at launch, but no one says that now. I want to see it in the wild first

CromulentForumID · April 2017

Smasherx74 wrote: »

Shadow_Viper_vX wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

Pallio wrote: »

This is the definition of P2W, when you have to spend $$ to play a viable class.

Pay your $$ = Win, or gimp along on some other class.

Shadow_Viper_vX wrote: »

The Warden is part of the Morrowwind expansion...

Expansion content is not pay to win....it's an expansion, are you new to MMOs?

Stop complaining....

Great argument that was repeated about 1000x in my previous thread and was the reason it was locked. I refuted this sooo many times.

Putting a class, a weapon, or any sort of advantage in an MMO behind a paywall whether it's DLC, microtransaction, or an expansion is literal P2W by definition.

It's fine to argue to what degree it's an unfair advantage which would reflect the general presumption of it being P2W, but now we know. All other classes have been nerfed for this up coming expansion. Warden has specific reliable abilities that counteract and play along with many of the nerfs, when alls said and done they nerfed everything to make warden OP.

Now that argument of whether warden is an unfair advantage or not is invalid. 100% invalid as of now. Thanks for the great post, hope to see you in cyrodil.

So you made a repeat thread after the first one was locked....

Believe that's against CoC

Previous thread was before they nerfed everything. I simply made the claim Warden is P2W just because it's a new class behind a pay wall.

Now all my suspisions and warnings have came true. I predicted RNG boxes, I predicted pay walls for items, and now I've predicted the warden would be p2w.

Nice bait btw.

So somehow this new information about the nerfs was baked into your previous argument about how it was P2W because it was behind a paywall?

You may have been onto something if you posted this rant without any reference to your other thread. It is starting to look like Wardens got the benefit of these balance changes.

However, that has absolutely nothing to do with your previous thread or argument. I am not sure you even tried to hint that Warden would be made more powerful. It was all about how it was P2W just because you have to buy Morrowind, even if the Warden turned out to be average.

I still can't decide if you're trolling or are that proud of yourself and how smart you are.

Smasherx74 · April 2017

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Pallio wrote: »

This is the definition of P2W, when you have to spend $$ to play a viable class.

Pay your $$ = Win, or gimp along on some other class.

Yeah, like when they require me to buy ESO in order to have a Templar healer in the past...

This is another argument repeated in my previous thread multiple times.

Buying the game, and buying an expansion or DLC are two totally different things. You can't compare not having a class to not having the game. It's a false equivalence and logical fallacy.

Smasherx74 · April 2017

CromulentForumID wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

Shadow_Viper_vX wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

Pallio wrote: »

This is the definition of P2W, when you have to spend $$ to play a viable class.

Pay your $$ = Win, or gimp along on some other class.

Shadow_Viper_vX wrote: »

The Warden is part of the Morrowwind expansion...

Expansion content is not pay to win....it's an expansion, are you new to MMOs?

Stop complaining....

Great argument that was repeated about 1000x in my previous thread and was the reason it was locked. I refuted this sooo many times.

Putting a class, a weapon, or any sort of advantage in an MMO behind a paywall whether it's DLC, microtransaction, or an expansion is literal P2W by definition.

It's fine to argue to what degree it's an unfair advantage which would reflect the general presumption of it being P2W, but now we know. All other classes have been nerfed for this up coming expansion. Warden has specific reliable abilities that counteract and play along with many of the nerfs, when alls said and done they nerfed everything to make warden OP.

Now that argument of whether warden is an unfair advantage or not is invalid. 100% invalid as of now. Thanks for the great post, hope to see you in cyrodil.

So you made a repeat thread after the first one was locked....

Believe that's against CoC

Previous thread was before they nerfed everything. I simply made the claim Warden is P2W just because it's a new class behind a pay wall.

Now all my suspisions and warnings have came true. I predicted RNG boxes, I predicted pay walls for items, and now I've predicted the warden would be p2w.

Nice bait btw.

So somehow this new information about the nerfs was baked into your previous argument about how it was P2W because it was behind a paywall?

You may have been onto something if you posted this rant without any reference to your other thread. It is starting to look like Wardens got the benefit of these balance changes.

However, that has absolutely nothing to do with your previous thread or argument. I am not sure you even tried to hint that Warden would be made more powerful. It was all about how it was P2W just because you have to buy Morrowind, even if the Warden turned out to be average.

I still can't decide if you're trolling or are that proud of yourself and how smart you are.

I warned everyone that if they're going to put a class behind a pay wall they're going to ensure that class has inherit advantages over other classes (definition of P2W).

Only a handful of people agreed or cared. Now that they nerfed EVERYTHING, people are jumping on my boat! So yes, I am very proud of myself.

ArconSeptim · April 2017

I honestly still think that Warden won't be so OP as hyped here...There will still be algorithms, combinations to use in next patch for every class to make it viable as usual, devs are not so stupid as you all would like them to be, there is a reason for each nerf and buff here.
If you still think that Warden will be OP go for it, but if you stick with a class you like you will adapt to it, change few sets, stats, rotations which go with them in the next patch as always and it will be just fine, it would be really sad from veterans to be downed so easily by a Pet class pay for it or not.

maboleth · April 2017

My take - they will make everyone want Warden and buy Morrowind (hopefully not Moronwind) and after 6 or so months they will nerf the class back.

It's all marketing. Frankly, I've been out of this game for a month or so, wasted 6 months subscription money for only 2m of playing. And I'm NOT buying the expansion, unless they make it grandeur or receive universal acclaim reviews. Only time will tell.
But considering how much bugs and unresolved annoyances they introduced with Homestead I doubt it. One Tamriel was a huge step in the right direction, but since then it was all pretty poor with ton of more bugs.

ManwithBeard9 · April 2017

Until the OP presents actual testing numbers, figures, parses, and factual evidence of the Warden being better than every class, you can let them be a cancerous troll.

Smasherx74 · April 2017

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

Until the OP presents actual testing numbers, figures, parses, and factual evidence of the Warden being better than every class, you can let them be a cancerous troll.

Warden has reliable major mending

everyone else no longer has reliable major mending.

If you want numbers and statistics give me access to dev test server.

Kiralyn2000 · April 2017

*ow*

Sorry, just sprained my eyes rolling them so hard.

----

And as an aside.... gee, a return to Morrowind, TES region beloved by fans, target of "do a remake" wishes, etc. So, clearly, the only reason anyone could want to buy this expansion is if they made an OP "p2w" class to attract attention. There's definitely no other content on this expansion that people might want to experience.

/sarcasm

(Do you seriously think that they're so insecure in the sales potential of Morrowind, that they'd feel the need to nerf all classes & overpower Wardens just to get people to buy it? Your tinfoil hat needs another layer or two.)

ManwithBeard9 · April 2017

Smasherx74 wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

Until the OP presents actual testing numbers, figures, parses, and factual evidence of the Warden being better than every class, you can let them be a cancerous troll.

Warden has reliable major mending

everyone else no longer has reliable major mending.

If you want numbers and statistics give me access to dev test server.

So Major Mending was removed from every skill except those found in the Warden's class skills? Oh, you dont even have access to the closed beta? So youre entire theory is based on information you dont have access to? How could you possibly have any idea how all 5 classes work exactly if you arent there to test?

grim_tactics · April 2017

I'm not picking a side on this whole P2W thought.

I will say a long time WoW player who plays ESO when we can all do dungeons together said the same thing when Warden was revealed.

He didnt seem surprised at all. "Yeah I saw that. It'll be the strongest class when it launches just so people will play it or feel the need to. Happens in other MMOs. Introduce OP character - get people to play it - nerf it 6 months later."

Kinda get the feeling this is what we may experience but I have no clue until I see it in the game.

I'm buying Morrowind for the nostalgia- they know a lot more are too - so I'll be happy until that wears off and I realize I gotta grind new crap all over again.

Smasherx74 · April 2017

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

Until the OP presents actual testing numbers, figures, parses, and factual evidence of the Warden being better than every class, you can let them be a cancerous troll.

Warden has reliable major mending

everyone else no longer has reliable major mending.

If you want numbers and statistics give me access to dev test server.

So Major Mending was removed from every skill except those found in the Warden's class skills? Oh, you dont even have access to the closed beta? So youre entire theory is based on information you dont have access to? How could you possibly have any idea how all 5 classes work exactly if you arent there to test?

what? Major mending wasn't removed, dude I'm not going to argue the patch notes with you. Go read them your self.

Smasherx74 · April 2017

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

*ow*

Sorry, just sprained my eyes rolling them so hard.

----

And as an aside.... gee, a return to Morrowind, TES region beloved by fans, target of "do a remake" wishes, etc. So, clearly, the only reason anyone could want to buy this expansion is if they made an OP "p2w" class to attract attention. There's definitely no other content on this expansion that people might want to experience.

/sarcasm

(Do you seriously think that they're so insecure in the sales potential of Morrowind, that they'd feel the need to nerf all classes & overpower Wardens just to get people to buy it? Your tinfoil hat needs another layer or two.)

Why would it matter? You're rolling your eyes because why? Does anything you said related to the fact they nerfed the entire game to account for Warden?

I'm not and not going to argue whether making Warden OP will get more or less people to buy the expansion than the rest of it's content. That seems like a trap to me, so I'll stick to exactly what I've been saying this whole time.

Warden is P2W.

Edit: I don't have to justify warden being P2W with sales, I'm justifying the claim with the patch notes. Good game.

Rhoric · April 2017

Game is not pay to win. Get over yourself.

Smasherx74 · April 2017

Rhoric wrote: »

Game is not pay to win.

Proof.

The game has been technically P2W since launch. The only reason why it's becoming an issue now is because they introduced a huge advantage for everyone off the bat behind a paywall. Imperials weren't that big of an advantage, BiS gear wasn't that abundance of an advantage, but having a new class and nerfing everyone else, that is a huge advantage behind a pay wall.

Rhoric · April 2017

We have pointed it out to you in your multiple topics before they were closed. You just can't seem to grasp the notion that you were wrong.

Smasherx74 · April 2017

Rhoric wrote: »

We have pointed it out to you in your multiple topics before they were closed. You just can't seem to grasp the notion that you were wrong.

I just refuted your statement, can you please tell me how the game is not P2W?

geonsocal · April 2017

Smasherx74 wrote: »

It's fine to argue to what degree it's an unfair advantage which would reflect the general presumption of it being P2W, but now we know. All other classes have been nerfed for this up coming expansion. Warden has specific reliable abilities that counteract and play along with many of the nerfs, when alls said and done they nerfed everything to make warden OP.

Zvorgin wrote: »

If you wreck current characters to eliminate skills that now only a new class can get and people have to buy that class, I don't see how P2W could be more obvious.

uh oh...y'alls starting to make sense...yikes...

ArchMikem · April 2017

No, it doesn't. The Warden is Pay to Play. It would be Pay to Win if the Class was somehow incredibly overpowered against all the other classes, which I highly doubt it is.

Zvorgin · April 2017

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

Until the OP presents actual testing numbers, figures, parses, and factual evidence of the Warden being better than every class, you can let them be a cancerous troll.

Warden has reliable major mending

everyone else no longer has reliable major mending.

If you want numbers and statistics give me access to dev test server.

So Major Mending was removed from every skill except those found in the Warden's class skills? Oh, you dont even have access to the closed beta? So youre entire theory is based on information you dont have access to? How could you possibly have any idea how all 5 classes work exactly if you arent there to test?

It was removed from DK and Templar class skills. DK has it but only while the igneous shield is active which isn't long since it is so small, so maybe a second or 2 max. Believe resto skill line has it, and warden gets it 100% up time.

Rhoric · April 2017

Smasherx74 wrote: »

Rhoric wrote: »

We have pointed it out to you in your multiple topics before they were closed. You just can't seem to grasp the notion that you were wrong.

I just refuted your statement, can you please tell me how the game is not P2W?

No you didn't. We told you multiple times it is not pay to win. We should you proof but you ignored it.

Smasherx74 · April 2017

ArchMikem wrote: »

No, it doesn't. The Warden is Pay to Play. It would be Pay to Win if the Class was somehow incredibly overpowered against all the other classes, which I highly doubt it is.

Incredibly overpowered is subjective. Meaning, it's up in the air whether you determine it's OP or not.

However now we know, every other class and the game in genral has been nerfed for this upcoming patch bringing Warden into the picture. What we also know is Warden will have reliable major mending, while everyone else will no longer have reliable major mending. That's just one example, there will be more in the future.

zaria · April 2017

Shadow_Viper_vX wrote: »

The Warden is part of the Morrowwind expansion...

Expansion content is not pay to win....it's an expansion, are you new to MMOs?

Stop complaining....

I agree here, yes the upcoming changes sounds horrible and I posted a lot about it
but new classes in expansions is not pay to win as default.
If so WOW would be the most P2W MMO ever as players has become 100 times stronger because of the expansions.

Peekachu99 · April 2017

Warden's damage output is rubbish and reliant on either HP stacking or weapon skills. My God, give them something. Meanwhile, Sorcs are laughing their asses off inside their 15 stacked shields at this nonsense.

And Deltia released a "statement"? As if he's some sort of Apartheid sufferer making a political address? Why does everyone think they're the most important person on the planet? I like the guy's vids, but c'mon. Y'all need a reality check.

Smasherx74 · April 2017

Rhoric wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

Rhoric wrote: »

We have pointed it out to you in your multiple topics before they were closed. You just can't seem to grasp the notion that you were wrong.

I just refuted your statement, can you please tell me how the game is not P2W?

No you didn't. We told you multiple times it is not pay to win. We should you proof but you ignored it.

Okay you're just baiting me now. Reported.

I told you how and what was P2W, I even elaborated on the definition and agreed label of P2W. You're telling me you have given me proof yet you haven't. Are you going to insist on making an illogical argument, or will you actually be reasonable.

You can't reason someone out of something they haven't been reasoned into. So I guess there is no hope of changing your mind on whether putting things that give a player a competitive advantage behind a paywall is P2W or not.

There is literal and non-literal P2W. This is literal p2w at this point, and multiple other things have been in the past.

Here is a list for you.

Imperial Race
Item sets
Warden class.

all have inherit competitive advantages over vanilla players that are placed behind a paywall. To get BiS you need to pay, to get an optimal race for builds, you need to pay.

Smasherx74 · April 2017

zaria wrote: »

Shadow_Viper_vX wrote: »

The Warden is part of the Morrowwind expansion...

Expansion content is not pay to win....it's an expansion, are you new to MMOs?

Stop complaining....

I agree here, yes the upcoming changes sounds horrible and I posted a lot about it
but new classes in expansions is not pay to win as default.
If so WOW would be the most P2W MMO ever as players has become 100 times stronger because of the expansions.

Another argument I addressed in that other thread.

Long story short,
WoW has over a decade worth of content, adding a new variable into the mixture doesn't drastically impact it as warden has.

geonsocal · April 2017

masterbroodub17_ESO · April 2017

Smasherx74 wrote: »

Rhoric wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

Rhoric wrote: »

We have pointed it out to you in your multiple topics before they were closed. You just can't seem to grasp the notion that you were wrong.

I just refuted your statement, can you please tell me how the game is not P2W?

No you didn't. We told you multiple times it is not pay to win. We should you proof but you ignored it.

Okay you're just baiting me now. Reported.

I told you how and what was P2W, I even elaborated on the definition and agreed label of P2W. You're telling me you have given me proof yet you haven't. Are you going to insist on making an illogical argument, or will you actually be reasonable.

You can't reason someone out of something they haven't been reasoned into. So I guess there is no hope of changing your mind on whether putting things that give a player a competitive advantage behind a paywall is P2W or not.

There is literal and non-literal P2W. This is literal p2w at this point, and multiple other things have been in the past.

Here is a list for you.

Imperial Race
Item sets
Warden class.

all have inherit competitive advantages over vanilla players that are placed behind a paywall. To get BiS you need to pay, to get an optimal race for builds, you need to pay.

"I'm gonna report you for not agreeing with me" Boy, if that isn't a sign of being wrong I don't know what is.