Trash players (Not clickb8)

zuto40

There is a lot of bad players in PvP, they have to Zerg to compete at all, but is it their fault or the fault of good players as I've seen us accused of being the reason before? I don't think so, I think it's zos's fault, every new player starts off with the tutorial which tells them to shoot some siege. When I first started completely clueless I zerged for a few months cause that's all I thought there was, I ran full wpn dmg builds with no sustain cause I thought that's all there was, I didn't understand how PvP was different from PvE, I didn't know I needed sustain, I didn't know I needed burst damage and healing, I didn't know how to theory craft at all, the bottom line is zos can do whatever they want to "fix" cyrodiil but unless the intro to cyrodiil is changed cyrodiil will not change, watch any streamer and you'll see a good player stomping bad players left and right, and as fun as it is to see it's not healthy for the game, those aren't good fights, those are slaughters. Fix the intro to cyrodiil and introduce the actual mechanics of pvp and pvp will change for the better

Rohamad_Ali

I don't think it is ZoS job to educate players on PVP tactics . You can only provide so much tutorial and I think most players skip those anyways . The faction guilds are the best way to educate new players . People have to teach . Then there are those that do not care to group and just follow the mob to find fights . It's the same in every game . Reach out and offer assistance if you are passionate about it . Instructional videos or write ups . I love to hold ZOSs feet to the fire but this one is just not on them .

kuro-dono

this game protects pro/elite aoe choo choo:ers too much. thats the reason why this game turns new players fast off.

Stratforge

There's no way you could make the introductory tutorial explanatory enough to prepare a new player for cyrodiil. I literally think it would be impossible. Someone who just jumps into cyro and tries to solo is going to have an extraordinarily bad time no matter what that tutorial teaches them.

Related: nobody faults new players for zerging. It's the 12-14 man 600 cp stacked groups that irk me. Like, you've been playing since launch and you're still doing this?

kuro-dono

when i use use word pro: i refer to 1 vs x players, gankers who instant burst billions of ppl in 1min and such. then separate problem is the aoe choo choo:s.

Esgameplaya1

Step one for cyrodiil intro
- Go get mist form, and or change build to dodge rolling monkey with shuffle slotted!!

I find it sad that you either have to incorporate one of these two things into your build to be somewhat successful.

kuro-dono

this game was almost good at start and few month after that. then players learned to abuse mechanics.

WhiteMage

Then who is it on? I'd be happy to teach anyone the ways of the magplar, or how to 1vX in general. Trouble is, no one ever really asks. Once upon a time an AD sorc asked me how to 1vX (after I 1vXed him). This guy has, as far as I know, stopped playing, but he did improve substantially after multiple lessons and numerous beat-downs. But this guy was an exception. New players say "LFG" in zone, rather than "I'm terrible, can someone please teach me how to L2P?"

The few times I offered advice that was unsolicited, the results were across the spectrum from absolutely incapable to incredible improvement. I also have noticed a trend between coherent communication and ablility to improve. The players who chat like people have huge potential, but if the first thing they ask starts like "How to...?" they're beyond help.

(And much to my dismay, all the new magplars are looking to heal, not kill stuff. Templar seems to have a problem with its identity.)

kuro-dono

when ppl come playing eso, i dont think their first thoughts are wanting to be godlike and kill solo 10 ppl or instant kill billions of ppl and laugh to them n00bs who die to their instant bursts. or aoe choo choo big pug zerg. most ppl come here and try have actually fun. instead of those nasty options i mentioned. most ppl after all are by nature filthy casuals who want fun. REAL FUN.

kuro-dono

zenimax should protect their population bit more. force them elites into one server and keep them filthy casuals on another. maybe that way eventually the filthy casuals are more likely to become bit better. for pve wise... that learning curve is bit more diffucult but atleast they arent combatting there players any otherway except verbal combat. which seems to be as we know in eso forums... very ugly business.

zuto40

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

I don't think it is ZoS job to educate players on PVP tactics . You can only provide so much tutorial and I think most players skip those anyways . The faction guilds are the best way to educate new players . People have to teach . Then there are those that do not care to group and just follow the mob to find fights . It's the same in every game . Reach out and offer assistance if you are passionate about it . Instructional videos or write ups . I love to hold ZOSs feet to the fire but this one is just not on them .

The tutorial teaches players to use ice trebs on stationary targets, there might as well be no tutorial, a game shouldn't throw players into an ocean without at least teaching them how to doggy paddle, blackwater is good to an extent, there are new players in there learning but there are also a lot of players who stay there and delete characters so they stay there and are much better then beginners, it also doesn't prepare them for CP which is most of pvp

frozywozy

I have tried a good dozen of times to offer zerg guilds some free training sessions regarding builds, rotations, gear sets, group leading and such. Most of them denied the help saying that if they fail on the battlefield, they just bring more numbers next time. They don't care about increasing their effectiveness by getting better as a player. All they want is to overwhelm the enemy with absurd numbers. Again, can't wait for battlegrounds and fixed amounts of players.

Rohamad_Ali

zuto40 wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

I don't think it is ZoS job to educate players on PVP tactics . You can only provide so much tutorial and I think most players skip those anyways . The faction guilds are the best way to educate new players . People have to teach . Then there are those that do not care to group and just follow the mob to find fights . It's the same in every game . Reach out and offer assistance if you are passionate about it . Instructional videos or write ups . I love to hold ZOSs feet to the fire but this one is just not on them .

The tutorial teaches players to use ice trebs on stationary targets, there might as well be no tutorial, a game shouldn't throw players into an ocean without at least teaching them how to doggy paddle, blackwater is good to an extent, there are new players in there learning but there are also a lot of players who stay there and delete characters so they stay there and are much better then beginners, it also doesn't prepare them for CP which is most of pvp

I understand what you are saying but in my opinion , they could make an hour long tutorial on every aspect and you will still see zergers . It's a mentality more then a lack of knowledge . Like @frozywozy stated , he has tried to offer knowledge , zergers just don't care .

zyk

To me, trash players are obtuse and ignorant people. In my experience, most players like this consider themselves to be elite. Of course, in a popular game that is highly competitive, most of these players would be firmly in the middle.

There's no shame in being casual or bad at a game designed for recreation. Especially in a game as casual as ESO. However, being an ignorant jerk is always shameful.

With that said, ZOS does do a very bad job of preparing new players for PVP -- compared to DOTA 2, for example. The tutorials are weak and AvA has no mechanisms to right-size competition. I would say that the scoring mechanics actually encourage experienced players to seek out less experienced/interested PVP players for the purpose of farming AP.

The last time I played, I watched a guild that considers itself to be among the best take its 24 man and spend about 2 hours farming AD randoms @ Alessia resources. They weren't even outnumbered at any given moment. It was shooting fish in a barrel. Who were the "trash" in this situation? Certainly not the casual randoms; who I admire for their determination.

Takllin

frozywozy wrote: »

I have tried a good dozen of times to offer zerg guilds some free training sessions regarding builds, rotations, gear sets, group leading and such. Most of them denied the help saying that if they fail on the battlefield, they just bring more numbers next time. They don't care about increasing their effectiveness by getting better as a player. All they want is to overwhelm the enemy with absurd numbers. Again, can't wait for battlegrounds and fixed amounts of players.

There's an acceptable group number limit other than 24?

Joy_Division

Not sure what you want ZoS to tell new players. Especially when the lead designer believes that Crystal Blast is an effective anti-zerg skill; what tutorial the do give is likely to be counterproductive.

@Rohamad_Ali is right; this is our responsibility, not ZoS's.

Shaggygaming

AvAvA. Not everyone that purchased the game wants to solo or small group. They purchased the game to have epic siege battles, charge into keeps, and fight along side their alliance.

IxSTALKERxI

A lot of people don't care and don't want help. If you were to offer build advice etc to the AD faction in zone chat, you would probably get ignored. Out of the few people that do show interest, they'd probably reject your idea's and tell you that impen is bad and that their divines + leathal arrow build is way better and that you need to L2P. They then go back go dieing on BRK front door repeatedly while DC are taking scrolls.

zyk

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

A lot of people don't care and don't want help. If you were to offer build advice etc to the AD faction in zone chat, you would probably get ignored. Out of the few people that do show interest, they'd probably reject your idea's and tell you that impen is bad and that their divines + leathal arrow build is way better and that you need to L2P. They then go back go dieing on BRK front door repeatedly while DC are taking scrolls.

This is true, but not even in a bad way. A lot of players don't have the time and/or inclination to learn the game. Others might play with disabilities or are just bad at games. The problem is that this game throws players of all types into one arena and incentivizes competitive players to level efficiently by hunting casuals.

These players would be absent in my ideal campaign. I would love a campaign entirely composed motivated PVP players with an understanding of the game competing for compelling prizes.

SHADOW2KK

Meh well it is war, they can adapt and l2p or get constantly rekt till they go back to PvE or get good.

The choice is up to them.

Personally I prefer going up against skilled opponents in PvP, as they sharpen my edge, but have absolutely no problem pwning lesser skilled players.

As said, it is war.

Enslaved

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

I don't think it is ZoS job to educate players on PVP tactics . You can only provide so much tutorial and I think most players skip those anyways . The faction guilds are the best way to educate new players . People have to teach . Then there are those that do not care to group and just follow the mob to find fights . It's the same in every game . Reach out and offer assistance if you are passionate about it . Instructional videos or write ups . I love to hold ZOSs feet to the fire but this one is just not on them .

On the other hand, I can't even read news on ESO homepage without prooving that I am well beyond 18 y old, and then you have these 9-12 y old being farmed on the bridge every single day. Not sure if anyone could teach them any tactics, I am surprised they know how to walk.

Chair

Sadly zos will never really care about cyrodiil or making it more competitive. There will always be bad players in every game pretty much but ESO has the widest range to offer of bad players, people who zerg xv1 or sneak inc with a full raid for vastly smaller groups. The community here isn't really the best but ZOS do not care about PVP or at least they show no interest in it.

Sigma957

There are plenty of youtube videos on build types and how to be effective in pvp but you can only do so much.

Malamar1229

Shaggygaming wrote: »

AvAvA. Not everyone that purchased the game wants to solo or small group. They purchased the game to have epic siege battles, charge into keeps, and fight along side their alliance.

I gave this dude an Agree even though I am a small scale, 1vX player. I typically go against the norm anyway, but have to chuckle everytime I see "this class is OP" type threads given the above point. Game wasn't supposed to be balanced around 1v1 play.

Malamar1229

Sandman929

Shaggygaming wrote: »

AvAvA. Not everyone that purchased the game wants to solo or small group. They purchased the game to have epic siege battles, charge into keeps, and fight along side their alliance.

Pretty much this. The zerg is an intended game mechanic. Frustrating as hell sometimes, no doubt, but this isn't Street Fighter.

Anazasi

frozywozy wrote: »

I have tried a good dozen of times to offer zerg guilds some free training sessions regarding builds, rotations, gear sets, group leading and such. Most of them denied the help saying that if they fail on the battlefield, they just bring more numbers next time. They don't care about increasing their effectiveness by getting better as a player. All they want is to overwhelm the enemy with absurd numbers. Again, can't wait for battlegrounds and fixed amounts of players.

Don't feel bad Frozen, I've had the same response from players. I've offered other guild groups the opportunity for there group leaders to run with us and see how we do things in hopes they might get better. But no one is ever interested. I think the majority of players are just here to consume the entertainment and don't care.

Dreyloch

Step one of tutorial. Which siege for which occasion. I saw no less than 6 fire ballista being shot at the chalman wall and postern door last night. Needless to say, it didn't go well. This is after 3 years of release. I don;t think people even read what the siege engines do ROFL.

rfennell_ESO

As long as the tutorial includes npcs you kill whispering you and saying things like "u r nothing but a zergling" "git gud" "u r a exploiter" and the like...

That if you really want to prepare them.

geonsocal

Dreyloch wrote: »

Step one of tutorial. Which siege for which occasion. I saw no less than 6 fire ballista being shot at the chalman wall and postern door last night. Needless to say, it didn't go well. This is after 3 years of release. I don;t think people even read what the siege engines do ROFL.

great point...see the misuse of siege weapons all the time...

Runschei

ZOS can't really tell them how they should play. Let the new ones find out what they like themselves. Enjoy zerging? Go for it!!! Enjoy ganking? Go for it!