Magicka Sorcs lol

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thankyourat wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

DA FECK IS GOIN ON WITH THESE FORUMS LATELY?!?!

Christ on a cracker I take a short hiatus from the forums and come back to nerf sorc after nerf sorc thread.

So for the anti-sorc brigade, allow me to share Makkir's list for surviving sorcs:

1) Stop potato'ing
2) Don't lemming off a keep wall on your mount when there's a sorc down below
3) Don't follow the sorc under Alessia Bridge
4) Don't follow the sorc around the rocks
5) Don't stand on purple glowy things
6) Take off the cheese and put on some survivability
7) Try snares

So basically don't fight a sorc. I don't know why it's so hard for sorc mains to admit that the class they play is OP when combined with sets and cp

The Magicka sorc community is clearly the the loudest and most immature on the forums. No one is allow to have an opinion on their class but they can dictate balance on others.

Ocelot9x

@Surak73 it's not about animation canceling, I love it and I cried when they took away my heavy attack into wrecking blow. What's funny is that you don't need to be good at AC, It's just mechanics.
Curse explodes after 3,5sec and mage wrath is a burst executioner "fire and forget". Burst is the word. Currently in PvP the only way to kill a capable opponent is to burst him down because its easy to reset the fight and resources are almost infinite. And sorcs are the best class at bursting. Since 2/3 patches its almost impossible for a magicka player to run out of stamina (that's how you recognise a baddie) so the fight will go on till someone burst the opponent,and as a sorc is incredibly easy to burst someone (and it leaves almost no counterplay),while when you're trying to kill a sorc the only way is to wait him to make a mistake.
Just give us back our damn empower,even if minor:if you're dumb enough to get it by a dizzlying you deserve to die.
Give nigtblades a way to cast the spectral bow without hitting again the button (like curse,after some sec it fires on his own).
By the way zenimax understood that. Just look at purifying light: a delayed burst ability,and it got buffed since they want people to use that.

Surak73

Ocelot9x wrote: »

@Surak73 it's not about animation canceling, I love it and I cried when they took away my heavy attack into wrecking blow. What's funny is that you don't need to be good at AC, It's just mechanics.
Curse explodes after 3,5sec and mage wrath is a burst executioner "fire and forget". Burst is the word. Currently in PvP the only way to kill a capable opponent is to burst him down because its easy to reset the fight and resources are almost infinite. And sorcs are the best class at bursting. Since 2/3 patches its almost impossible for a magicka player to run out of stamina (that's how you recognise a baddie) so the fight will go on till someone burst the opponent,and as a sorc is incredibly easy to burst someone (and it leaves almost no counterplay),while when you're trying to kill a sorc the only way is to wait him to make a mistake.
Just give us back our damn empower,even if minor:if you're dumb enough to get it by a dizzlying you deserve to die.
Give nigtblades a way to cast the spectral bow without hitting again the button (like curse,after some sec it fires on his own).
By the way zenimax understood that. Just look at purifying light: a delayed burst ability,and it got buffed since they want people to use that.

Well, and if you are dumb enough to not hit the button "block" after 3.5 secs you have got the warning "Achtung! You have been cursed! You will explode in 3.5 seconds!", what do you deserve?... At least a dizzlying is a matter of a fraction of second, but here we are talking about 3.5 secs, damn it... I can go, make a coffee and read the headlines of a newspaper in 3.5 seconds... How can you call it a "burst"?

As for mage's wrath, yes, it's a fire a forget ability: this is its advantage. The disadvantage is that it become an executioner only at 20%, instead of 40-50% of other executioners. You can't have it all: you can't have an executioner which can proc at 50% doing insane damage AND can be fired in advance as well... You want my mage's wrath? Take it, I'll be happy with your executioner, radiant, impale, killer blade...

Nothing to say about spectral bow/assassin will: my two nightblades, mag and stam, would be very happy with this buff, and they would kill me when I'm sleeping if I'd have anything to say against this change...

NBrookus

Surak73 wrote: »

Well, and if you are dumb enough to not hit the button "block" after 3.5 secs you have got the warning "Achtung! You have been cursed! You will explode in 3.5 seconds!", what do you deserve?...

Damage from curse is not blockable anymore. Either explosion.

Ocelot9x

Curse is undodgeable/unblockable and the ready good part is that it explodes after 3,5sec so you can land it with your other skills,it's called delayed burst and yeah,it's better than normal burst cause it's just one global cooldown. Sorry but that's the basic of msorc.

Minalan

NBrookus wrote: »

Surak73 wrote: »

Well, and if you are dumb enough to not hit the button "block" after 3.5 secs you have got the warning "Achtung! You have been cursed! You will explode in 3.5 seconds!", what do you deserve?...

Damage from curse is not blockable anymore. Either explosion.

It's the one attack we have that can hit through a block build that's not an ultimate. It doesn't need a nerf.

Ocelot9x

Minalan wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Surak73 wrote: »

Well, and if you are dumb enough to not hit the button "block" after 3.5 secs you have got the warning "Achtung! You have been cursed! You will explode in 3.5 seconds!", what do you deserve?...

Damage from curse is not blockable anymore. Either explosion.

It's the one attack we have that can hit through a block build that's not an ultimate. It doesn't need a nerf.

Where did I say that ? BTW lot of classes didn't have any

Edziu

Minalan wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Surak73 wrote: »

Well, and if you are dumb enough to not hit the button "block" after 3.5 secs you have got the warning "Achtung! You have been cursed! You will explode in 3.5 seconds!", what do you deserve?...

Damage from curse is not blockable anymore. Either explosion.

It's the one attack we have that can hit through a block build that's not an ultimate. It doesn't need a nerf.

as I see on pvp and fell its hurting more medium armor nightblades etc than heavy armored tankly classes which can much better heal it + they have much more resists so? fro medium armor it is hitting for 6-8k, it just depent if you have full impene or no but also unblockable 6k is very hurting for someone based on dodge incoming attackcs isntad of tanking them vbecause of no resists

Surak73

OK, at least the damage to secondary targets can still be blocked... However, yes, my fault: I knew it was undodgeable, but I didn't know that since 1T is also unblockable. It is still purgeable, anyway, so it has a counter. Actually it can be annoying, especially for nightblades, but certainly it's not OP.

ToRelax

Surak73 wrote: »

OK, at least the damage to secondary targets can still be blocked... However, yes, my fault: I knew it was undodgeable, but I didn't know that since 1T is also unblockable. It is still purgeable, anyway, so it has a counter. Actually it can be annoying, especially for nightblades, but certainly it's not OP.

Being purgeable wouldn't be much of an argument when it comes to anything but Templars though. And they actually need that Purge the least to deal with Curse, thanks to BoL.
Anyway, the only nerf I think that Curse needs is to not be stackable from different Sorcs. The second explosion I don't really care about. But I don't think it needs to be blockable again.

Surak73

ToRelax wrote: »

Surak73 wrote: »

OK, at least the damage to secondary targets can still be blocked... However, yes, my fault: I knew it was undodgeable, but I didn't know that since 1T is also unblockable. It is still purgeable, anyway, so it has a counter. Actually it can be annoying, especially for nightblades, but certainly it's not OP.

Being purgeable wouldn't be much of an argument when it comes to anything but Templars though. And they actually need that Purge the least to deal with Curse, thanks to BoL.
Anyway, the only nerf I think that Curse needs is to not be stackable from different Sorcs. The second explosion I don't really care about. But I don't think it needs to be blockable again.

I see your point, but actually anyone can slot Efficient purge; it's a choice, and a matter of costs/benefits, like anything else.

But anyway, the (semiserious...) argument with my guildmate Ocelot was something like that: if I deserve to die because I didn't block his dizzlying in a fraction of second, maybe while I was fighting with two other players, why on earth if he doesn't block purge my curse in 3.5 seconds I deserve to be nerfed?...

KingJ

ToRelax wrote: »

Surak73 wrote: »

OK, at least the damage to secondary targets can still be blocked... However, yes, my fault: I knew it was undodgeable, but I didn't know that since 1T is also unblockable. It is still purgeable, anyway, so it has a counter. Actually it can be annoying, especially for nightblades, but certainly it's not OP.

Being purgeable wouldn't be much of an argument when it comes to anything but Templars though. And they actually need that Purge the least to deal with Curse, thanks to BoL.
Anyway, the only nerf I think that Curse needs is to not be stackable from different Sorcs. The second explosion I don't really care about. But I don't think it needs to be blockable again.

This will never happened it would affect sorcs in end game to much in PVE for this to go through.The only possible change they could make is to allow it to be blocked.

FriedEggSandwich

ToRelax wrote: »

Surak73 wrote: »

OK, at least the damage to secondary targets can still be blocked... However, yes, my fault: I knew it was undodgeable, but I didn't know that since 1T is also unblockable. It is still purgeable, anyway, so it has a counter. Actually it can be annoying, especially for nightblades, but certainly it's not OP.

Being purgeable wouldn't be much of an argument when it comes to anything but Templars though. And they actually need that Purge the least to deal with Curse, thanks to BoL.
Anyway, the only nerf I think that Curse needs is to not be stackable from different Sorcs. The second explosion I don't really care about. But I don't think it needs to be blockable again.

Curse being stackable was the first buff the skill ever received back in 1.5/1.6. I'm not happy with the idea that the most recent haunting curse buff, which I deem to be useless in pvp, is now causing people, including experienced sorcs, to say that curse now needs to be unstackable to be balanced. How about we just remove haunting curse and replace it with velocious curse again?

ToRelax

Surak73 wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Surak73 wrote: »

OK, at least the damage to secondary targets can still be blocked... However, yes, my fault: I knew it was undodgeable, but I didn't know that since 1T is also unblockable. It is still purgeable, anyway, so it has a counter. Actually it can be annoying, especially for nightblades, but certainly it's not OP.

Being purgeable wouldn't be much of an argument when it comes to anything but Templars though. And they actually need that Purge the least to deal with Curse, thanks to BoL.
Anyway, the only nerf I think that Curse needs is to not be stackable from different Sorcs. The second explosion I don't really care about. But I don't think it needs to be blockable again.

I see your point, but actually anyone can slot Efficient purge; it's a choice, and a matter of costs/benefits, like anything else.

But anyway, the (semiserious...) argument with my guildmate Ocelot was something like that: if I deserve to die because I didn't block his dizzlying in a fraction of second, maybe while I was fighting with two other players, why on earth if he doesn't block purge my curse in 3.5 seconds I deserve to be nerfed?...

Well the point is that a) you can't reliably Purge anything by removing just 2 debuffs, espeically within a 3.5 second window, b) it's less feasible to put Purge on your bar compared to Extended Ritual with it's HoT, snare, major mending and synergy and c) Efficient Purge is still quite a bit more expensive than Extended Ritual, though Curse is cheaper than either of them.
I would know... I use Efficient Purge in PvP, but almost never against Curse. Only realistical scenario would be when people indeed stack Curses on me.

KingJ wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Surak73 wrote: »

OK, at least the damage to secondary targets can still be blocked... However, yes, my fault: I knew it was undodgeable, but I didn't know that since 1T is also unblockable. It is still purgeable, anyway, so it has a counter. Actually it can be annoying, especially for nightblades, but certainly it's not OP.

Being purgeable wouldn't be much of an argument when it comes to anything but Templars though. And they actually need that Purge the least to deal with Curse, thanks to BoL.
Anyway, the only nerf I think that Curse needs is to not be stackable from different Sorcs. The second explosion I don't really care about. But I don't think it needs to be blockable again.

This will never happened it would affect sorcs in end game to much in PVE for this to go through.The only possible change they could make is to allow it to be blocked.

We know the devs can make skills work differently on players, faction NPCs, mobs and bosses. If they want to make Curse unstackable on other player characters only, I'm sure they'll manage.

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Surak73 wrote: »

OK, at least the damage to secondary targets can still be blocked... However, yes, my fault: I knew it was undodgeable, but I didn't know that since 1T is also unblockable. It is still purgeable, anyway, so it has a counter. Actually it can be annoying, especially for nightblades, but certainly it's not OP.

Being purgeable wouldn't be much of an argument when it comes to anything but Templars though. And they actually need that Purge the least to deal with Curse, thanks to BoL.
Anyway, the only nerf I think that Curse needs is to not be stackable from different Sorcs. The second explosion I don't really care about. But I don't think it needs to be blockable again.

Curse being stackable was the first buff the skill ever received back in 1.5/1.6. I'm not happy with the idea that the most recent haunting curse buff, which I deem to be useless in pvp, is now causing people, including experienced sorcs, to say that curse now needs to be unstackable to be balanced. How about we just remove haunting curse and replace it with velocious curse again?

Actually it was simultaneosly buffed by 25% and made blockable. And it was 1.6, tyvm. I said back then it was a stupid change and making it unblockable hasn't exactly changed my view on it.

FriedEggSandwich

ToRelax wrote: »

Surak73 wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Surak73 wrote: »

OK, at least the damage to secondary targets can still be blocked... However, yes, my fault: I knew it was undodgeable, but I didn't know that since 1T is also unblockable. It is still purgeable, anyway, so it has a counter. Actually it can be annoying, especially for nightblades, but certainly it's not OP.

Being purgeable wouldn't be much of an argument when it comes to anything but Templars though. And they actually need that Purge the least to deal with Curse, thanks to BoL.
Anyway, the only nerf I think that Curse needs is to not be stackable from different Sorcs. The second explosion I don't really care about. But I don't think it needs to be blockable again.

I see your point, but actually anyone can slot Efficient purge; it's a choice, and a matter of costs/benefits, like anything else.

But anyway, the (semiserious...) argument with my guildmate Ocelot was something like that: if I deserve to die because I didn't block his dizzlying in a fraction of second, maybe while I was fighting with two other players, why on earth if he doesn't block purge my curse in 3.5 seconds I deserve to be nerfed?...

Well the point is that a) you can't reliably Purge anything by removing just 2 debuffs, espeically within a 3.5 second window, b) it's less feasible to put Purge on your bar compared to Extended Ritual with it's HoT, snare, major mending and synergy and c) Efficient Purge is still quite a bit more expensive than Extended Ritual, though Curse is cheaper than either of them.
I would know... I use Efficient Purge in PvP, but almost never against Curse. Only realistical scenario would be when people indeed stack Curses on me.

KingJ wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Surak73 wrote: »

OK, at least the damage to secondary targets can still be blocked... However, yes, my fault: I knew it was undodgeable, but I didn't know that since 1T is also unblockable. It is still purgeable, anyway, so it has a counter. Actually it can be annoying, especially for nightblades, but certainly it's not OP.

Being purgeable wouldn't be much of an argument when it comes to anything but Templars though. And they actually need that Purge the least to deal with Curse, thanks to BoL.
Anyway, the only nerf I think that Curse needs is to not be stackable from different Sorcs. The second explosion I don't really care about. But I don't think it needs to be blockable again.

This will never happened it would affect sorcs in end game to much in PVE for this to go through.The only possible change they could make is to allow it to be blocked.

We know the devs can make skills work differently on players, faction NPCs, mobs and bosses. If they want to make Curse unstackable on other player characters only, I'm sure they'll manage.

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Surak73 wrote: »

OK, at least the damage to secondary targets can still be blocked... However, yes, my fault: I knew it was undodgeable, but I didn't know that since 1T is also unblockable. It is still purgeable, anyway, so it has a counter. Actually it can be annoying, especially for nightblades, but certainly it's not OP.

Being purgeable wouldn't be much of an argument when it comes to anything but Templars though. And they actually need that Purge the least to deal with Curse, thanks to BoL.
Anyway, the only nerf I think that Curse needs is to not be stackable from different Sorcs. The second explosion I don't really care about. But I don't think it needs to be blockable again.

Curse being stackable was the first buff the skill ever received back in 1.5/1.6. I'm not happy with the idea that the most recent haunting curse buff, which I deem to be useless in pvp, is now causing people, including experienced sorcs, to say that curse now needs to be unstackable to be balanced. How about we just remove haunting curse and replace it with velocious curse again?

Actually it was simultaneosly buffed by 25% and made blockable. And it was 1.6, tyvm. I said back then it was a stupid change and making it unblockable hasn't exactly changed my view on it.

I don't understand how you can say that making the skill stackable in 1.6 was a stupid change. Before then if you cursed your target any noob could just come up behind you and curse the same target and therefore remove yours. This was terrible play. I would rather the skill was blockable than unstackable. Please explain why you see it the opposite way.

ToRelax

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Surak73 wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Surak73 wrote: »

OK, at least the damage to secondary targets can still be blocked... However, yes, my fault: I knew it was undodgeable, but I didn't know that since 1T is also unblockable. It is still purgeable, anyway, so it has a counter. Actually it can be annoying, especially for nightblades, but certainly it's not OP.

Being purgeable wouldn't be much of an argument when it comes to anything but Templars though. And they actually need that Purge the least to deal with Curse, thanks to BoL.
Anyway, the only nerf I think that Curse needs is to not be stackable from different Sorcs. The second explosion I don't really care about. But I don't think it needs to be blockable again.

I see your point, but actually anyone can slot Efficient purge; it's a choice, and a matter of costs/benefits, like anything else.

But anyway, the (semiserious...) argument with my guildmate Ocelot was something like that: if I deserve to die because I didn't block his dizzlying in a fraction of second, maybe while I was fighting with two other players, why on earth if he doesn't block purge my curse in 3.5 seconds I deserve to be nerfed?...

Well the point is that a) you can't reliably Purge anything by removing just 2 debuffs, espeically within a 3.5 second window, b) it's less feasible to put Purge on your bar compared to Extended Ritual with it's HoT, snare, major mending and synergy and c) Efficient Purge is still quite a bit more expensive than Extended Ritual, though Curse is cheaper than either of them.
I would know... I use Efficient Purge in PvP, but almost never against Curse. Only realistical scenario would be when people indeed stack Curses on me.

KingJ wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Surak73 wrote: »

OK, at least the damage to secondary targets can still be blocked... However, yes, my fault: I knew it was undodgeable, but I didn't know that since 1T is also unblockable. It is still purgeable, anyway, so it has a counter. Actually it can be annoying, especially for nightblades, but certainly it's not OP.

Being purgeable wouldn't be much of an argument when it comes to anything but Templars though. And they actually need that Purge the least to deal with Curse, thanks to BoL.
Anyway, the only nerf I think that Curse needs is to not be stackable from different Sorcs. The second explosion I don't really care about. But I don't think it needs to be blockable again.

This will never happened it would affect sorcs in end game to much in PVE for this to go through.The only possible change they could make is to allow it to be blocked.

We know the devs can make skills work differently on players, faction NPCs, mobs and bosses. If they want to make Curse unstackable on other player characters only, I'm sure they'll manage.

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Surak73 wrote: »

OK, at least the damage to secondary targets can still be blocked... However, yes, my fault: I knew it was undodgeable, but I didn't know that since 1T is also unblockable. It is still purgeable, anyway, so it has a counter. Actually it can be annoying, especially for nightblades, but certainly it's not OP.

Being purgeable wouldn't be much of an argument when it comes to anything but Templars though. And they actually need that Purge the least to deal with Curse, thanks to BoL.
Anyway, the only nerf I think that Curse needs is to not be stackable from different Sorcs. The second explosion I don't really care about. But I don't think it needs to be blockable again.

Curse being stackable was the first buff the skill ever received back in 1.5/1.6. I'm not happy with the idea that the most recent haunting curse buff, which I deem to be useless in pvp, is now causing people, including experienced sorcs, to say that curse now needs to be unstackable to be balanced. How about we just remove haunting curse and replace it with velocious curse again?

Actually it was simultaneosly buffed by 25% and made blockable. And it was 1.6, tyvm. I said back then it was a stupid change and making it unblockable hasn't exactly changed my view on it.

I don't understand how you can say that making the skill stackable in 1.6 was a stupid change. Before then if you cursed your target any noob could just come up behind you and curse the same target and therefore remove yours. This was terrible play. I would rather the skill was blockable than unstackable. Please explain why you see it the opposite way.

It used to be a counter to block before 1.6. We needed those then and we need them now. It's also the Sorcerer's equivalent of a DoT, and other classes DoTs are unblockable as well.
Being able to stack burst damage from several players however, especially when it is both difficult to avoid and mitigate for many builds, enables situations where you can not counter that practice thus removing any fighting chance. Yes, "any noob" can just stop your Curse from ever happening, but in my experience pre 1.6 that has never been a problem. It's not like it's worth anyone's time to troll you like that and when you have less experienced players around you attacking the same target as you, either you'll be fine or that person who doesn't know about basic class mechanics is gonna die soon anyway.

FriedEggSandwich

ToRelax wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Surak73 wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Surak73 wrote: »

OK, at least the damage to secondary targets can still be blocked... However, yes, my fault: I knew it was undodgeable, but I didn't know that since 1T is also unblockable. It is still purgeable, anyway, so it has a counter. Actually it can be annoying, especially for nightblades, but certainly it's not OP.

Being purgeable wouldn't be much of an argument when it comes to anything but Templars though. And they actually need that Purge the least to deal with Curse, thanks to BoL.
Anyway, the only nerf I think that Curse needs is to not be stackable from different Sorcs. The second explosion I don't really care about. But I don't think it needs to be blockable again.

I see your point, but actually anyone can slot Efficient purge; it's a choice, and a matter of costs/benefits, like anything else.

But anyway, the (semiserious...) argument with my guildmate Ocelot was something like that: if I deserve to die because I didn't block his dizzlying in a fraction of second, maybe while I was fighting with two other players, why on earth if he doesn't block purge my curse in 3.5 seconds I deserve to be nerfed?...

Well the point is that a) you can't reliably Purge anything by removing just 2 debuffs, espeically within a 3.5 second window, b) it's less feasible to put Purge on your bar compared to Extended Ritual with it's HoT, snare, major mending and synergy and c) Efficient Purge is still quite a bit more expensive than Extended Ritual, though Curse is cheaper than either of them.
I would know... I use Efficient Purge in PvP, but almost never against Curse. Only realistical scenario would be when people indeed stack Curses on me.

KingJ wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Surak73 wrote: »

OK, at least the damage to secondary targets can still be blocked... However, yes, my fault: I knew it was undodgeable, but I didn't know that since 1T is also unblockable. It is still purgeable, anyway, so it has a counter. Actually it can be annoying, especially for nightblades, but certainly it's not OP.

Being purgeable wouldn't be much of an argument when it comes to anything but Templars though. And they actually need that Purge the least to deal with Curse, thanks to BoL.
Anyway, the only nerf I think that Curse needs is to not be stackable from different Sorcs. The second explosion I don't really care about. But I don't think it needs to be blockable again.

This will never happened it would affect sorcs in end game to much in PVE for this to go through.The only possible change they could make is to allow it to be blocked.

We know the devs can make skills work differently on players, faction NPCs, mobs and bosses. If they want to make Curse unstackable on other player characters only, I'm sure they'll manage.

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Surak73 wrote: »

OK, at least the damage to secondary targets can still be blocked... However, yes, my fault: I knew it was undodgeable, but I didn't know that since 1T is also unblockable. It is still purgeable, anyway, so it has a counter. Actually it can be annoying, especially for nightblades, but certainly it's not OP.

Being purgeable wouldn't be much of an argument when it comes to anything but Templars though. And they actually need that Purge the least to deal with Curse, thanks to BoL.
Anyway, the only nerf I think that Curse needs is to not be stackable from different Sorcs. The second explosion I don't really care about. But I don't think it needs to be blockable again.

Curse being stackable was the first buff the skill ever received back in 1.5/1.6. I'm not happy with the idea that the most recent haunting curse buff, which I deem to be useless in pvp, is now causing people, including experienced sorcs, to say that curse now needs to be unstackable to be balanced. How about we just remove haunting curse and replace it with velocious curse again?

Actually it was simultaneosly buffed by 25% and made blockable. And it was 1.6, tyvm. I said back then it was a stupid change and making it unblockable hasn't exactly changed my view on it.

I don't understand how you can say that making the skill stackable in 1.6 was a stupid change. Before then if you cursed your target any noob could just come up behind you and curse the same target and therefore remove yours. This was terrible play. I would rather the skill was blockable than unstackable. Please explain why you see it the opposite way.

It used to be a counter to block before 1.6. We needed those then and we need them now. It's also the Sorcerer's equivalent of a DoT, and other classes DoTs are unblockable as well.
Being able to stack burst damage from several players however, especially when it is both difficult to avoid and mitigate for many builds, enables situations where you can not counter that practice thus removing any fighting chance. Yes, "any noob" can just stop your Curse from ever happening, but in my experience pre 1.6 that has never been a problem. It's not like it's worth anyone's time to troll you like that and when you have less experienced players around you attacking the same target as you, either you'll be fine or that person who doesn't know about basic class mechanics is gonna die soon anyway.

Thank you for explaining, I still disagree but now I see where you're coming from. I still disagree because now the skill is 12s long and not 3.5s long. If the skill were to be made unstackable today it would mean that you'd rarely get the opportunity to use it thanks to waiting for others' to finish.

Juhasow

Ok ok i get it. Every build that cannot be killed in 5 seconds is OP for some people. Mag sorcs are strong maybe even brainless in some scenarios but not unbeatable. It just takes longer to outplay them but still it's possible like with every other build. If You call for shields nerf I call for Breath of Life heal cut by one third and extended ritual purging 2 negative effects instead of 5. I also call for cloak havng 50% more cost after recasting when You have shade active

D0ntevenL1ft

I don't see anyone complaining to nerf any skills on my stam dk #derailthread

SodanTok

KingJ wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Surak73 wrote: »

OK, at least the damage to secondary targets can still be blocked... However, yes, my fault: I knew it was undodgeable, but I didn't know that since 1T is also unblockable. It is still purgeable, anyway, so it has a counter. Actually it can be annoying, especially for nightblades, but certainly it's not OP.

Being purgeable wouldn't be much of an argument when it comes to anything but Templars though. And they actually need that Purge the least to deal with Curse, thanks to BoL.
Anyway, the only nerf I think that Curse needs is to not be stackable from different Sorcs. The second explosion I don't really care about. But I don't think it needs to be blockable again.

This will never happened it would affect sorcs in end game to much in PVE for this to go through.The only possible change they could make is to allow it to be blocked.

So you say it would fix both issues in one nerf?
jk... I have no idea how much would it affect PvE sorcs, only that they too require some tuning apparently.

Emmagoldman

@thankyourat
I dont know, balance hurts I guess. I dont know why its so hard for people who crutched on critting triple proc sets for a year + to figure out that maybe they arent really that good when armor doesnt do a majority of your dmg and with a critrush or suprise attack you could one shot a majority of classes.

Sorry, if you spent a year smashing mag sorcs and eating them as ap cookies because they were a joke, and now, with more balance you are not winning everytime. I bet you are not putting shield breaker?

During the hard stam meta, i put huge cp into bastion then hardy, and about 20 less cp in the cp against mag dmg.

Magsorcs and stamnb are meant to be bursty and both crumble if they have heavy focus. But really, 2h anything is bursty as well. Figure out what is the best role of your class and with the group you run with. If your pugging, its going to be hard

I started magsorc but now role stamdk in medium (fiord jailbreaker). I have 30 cp in shieldbreaker, dual stam/mag poison or fire glyph. In the group I run with I stay back, scan targets, and will target healers first, weak targets, or sorcs. Want a good laugh? Be a orc stamdk, with the dualwield expedition skill and chase them down after 3 streak, crit rush, into fossilize, dizzy, dawnbreaker, execute. Game over.

KingJ

Emmagoldman wrote: »

@thankyourat
I dont know, balance hurts I guess. I dont know why its so hard for people who crutched on critting triple proc sets for a year + to figure out that maybe they arent really that good when armor doesnt do a majority of your dmg and with a critrush or suprise attack you could one shot a majority of classes.

Sorry, if you spent a year smashing mag sorcs and eating them as ap cookies because they were a joke, and now, with more balance you are not winning everytime. I bet you are not putting shield breaker?

During the hard stam meta, i put huge cp into bastion then hardy, and about 20 less cp in the cp against mag dmg.

Magsorcs and stamnb are meant to be bursty and both crumble if they have heavy focus. But really, 2h anything is bursty as well. Figure out what is the best role of your class and with the group you run with. If your pugging, its going to be hard

I started magsorc but now role stamdk in medium (fiord jailbreaker). I have 30 cp in shieldbreaker, dual stam/mag poison or fire glyph. In the group I run with I stay back, scan targets, and will target healers first, weak targets, or sorcs. Want a good laugh? Be a orc stamdk, with the dualwield expedition skill and chase them down after 3 streak, crit rush, into fossilize, dizzy, dawnbreaker, execute. Game over.

@Emmagoldman @thankyourat only mainly Magnb he rarely play a stambuild.You also sound like a bad sorc.

thankyourat

Emmagoldman wrote: »

@thankyourat
I dont know, balance hurts I guess. I dont know why its so hard for people who crutched on critting triple proc sets for a year + to figure out that maybe they arent really that good when armor doesnt do a majority of your dmg and with a critrush or suprise attack you could one shot a majority of classes.

Sorry, if you spent a year smashing mag sorcs and eating them as ap cookies because they were a joke, and now, with more balance you are not winning everytime. I bet you are not putting shield breaker?

During the hard stam meta, i put huge cp into bastion then hardy, and about 20 less cp in the cp against mag dmg.

Magsorcs and stamnb are meant to be bursty and both crumble if they have heavy focus. But really, 2h anything is bursty as well. Figure out what is the best role of your class and with the group you run with. If your pugging, its going to be hard

I started magsorc but now role stamdk in medium (fiord jailbreaker). I have 30 cp in shieldbreaker, dual stam/mag poison or fire glyph. In the group I run with I stay back, scan targets, and will target healers first, weak targets, or sorcs. Want a good laugh? Be a orc stamdk, with the dualwield expedition skill and chase them down after 3 streak, crit rush, into fossilize, dizzy, dawnbreaker, execute. Game over.

Lol I have 2 stamina toons that I hardly ever play, I main a magblade and i play magsorc for a change of pace. Mag sorc was never a joke it was still good in dark brotherhood. It was still better than the other magicka classes. If sorcs were getting smashed it was because they were bad, because the class was good. I played melee magblade for like the last week I don't have any sympathy for anyone right now

Minalan

thankyourat wrote: »

Emmagoldman wrote: »

@thankyourat
I dont know, balance hurts I guess. I dont know why its so hard for people who crutched on critting triple proc sets for a year + to figure out that maybe they arent really that good when armor doesnt do a majority of your dmg and with a critrush or suprise attack you could one shot a majority of classes.

Sorry, if you spent a year smashing mag sorcs and eating them as ap cookies because they were a joke, and now, with more balance you are not winning everytime. I bet you are not putting shield breaker?

During the hard stam meta, i put huge cp into bastion then hardy, and about 20 less cp in the cp against mag dmg.

Magsorcs and stamnb are meant to be bursty and both crumble if they have heavy focus. But really, 2h anything is bursty as well. Figure out what is the best role of your class and with the group you run with. If your pugging, its going to be hard

I started magsorc but now role stamdk in medium (fiord jailbreaker). I have 30 cp in shieldbreaker, dual stam/mag poison or fire glyph. In the group I run with I stay back, scan targets, and will target healers first, weak targets, or sorcs. Want a good laugh? Be a orc stamdk, with the dualwield expedition skill and chase them down after 3 streak, crit rush, into fossilize, dizzy, dawnbreaker, execute. Game over.

Lol I have 2 stamina toons that I hardly ever play, I main a magblade and i play magsorc for a change of pace. Mag sorc was never a joke it was still good in dark brotherhood. It was still better than the other magicka classes. If sorcs were getting smashed it was because they were bad, because the class was good. I played melee magblade for like the last week I don't have any sympathy for anyone right now

Mag Sorcs were great during dark Brotherhood?



Shields were nerfed to 6 seconds
Power surge heal was nerfed
Curse was still blockable
Crit rush, heavy, wrecking blow was a thing, lol Wrobel's macroslice.
Every attack we had was either blockable or reflect-able, usually both
Dawnbreaker became physical damage, while still okay, it's nothing compared to what it was.
Destro staff damage was behind every other weapon in the game.

I stuck with it, and got farmed by stam builds. We spent about a year being trash before 1-T finally opened up enough build options and the weapon ultimates to make sorc competitive again.

thankyourat

Minalan wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Emmagoldman wrote: »

@thankyourat
I dont know, balance hurts I guess. I dont know why its so hard for people who crutched on critting triple proc sets for a year + to figure out that maybe they arent really that good when armor doesnt do a majority of your dmg and with a critrush or suprise attack you could one shot a majority of classes.

Sorry, if you spent a year smashing mag sorcs and eating them as ap cookies because they were a joke, and now, with more balance you are not winning everytime. I bet you are not putting shield breaker?

During the hard stam meta, i put huge cp into bastion then hardy, and about 20 less cp in the cp against mag dmg.

Magsorcs and stamnb are meant to be bursty and both crumble if they have heavy focus. But really, 2h anything is bursty as well. Figure out what is the best role of your class and with the group you run with. If your pugging, its going to be hard

I started magsorc but now role stamdk in medium (fiord jailbreaker). I have 30 cp in shieldbreaker, dual stam/mag poison or fire glyph. In the group I run with I stay back, scan targets, and will target healers first, weak targets, or sorcs. Want a good laugh? Be a orc stamdk, with the dualwield expedition skill and chase them down after 3 streak, crit rush, into fossilize, dizzy, dawnbreaker, execute. Game over.

Lol I have 2 stamina toons that I hardly ever play, I main a magblade and i play magsorc for a change of pace. Mag sorc was never a joke it was still good in dark brotherhood. It was still better than the other magicka classes. If sorcs were getting smashed it was because they were bad, because the class was good. I played melee magblade for like the last week I don't have any sympathy for anyone right now

Mag Sorcs were great during dark Brotherhood?



Shields were nerfed to 6 seconds
Power surge heal was nerfed
Curse was still blockable
Crit rush, heavy, wrecking blow was a thing, lol Wrobel's macroslice.
Every attack we had was either blockable or reflect-able, usually both
Dawnbreaker became physical damage, while still okay, it's nothing compared to what it was.
Destro staff damage was behind every other weapon in the game.

I stuck with it, and got farmed by stam builds. We spent about a year being trash before 1-T finally opened up enough build options and the weapon ultimates to make sorc competitive again.

I never said they were great, I said they were good. they weren't the best or the worse they were right in the middle it was balanced 1T made sorcs unbalanced they rose to level of stam dk and Stam sorc 2 very broken classes now mag sorc is part of that group. Stam dk and mag sorc are broken because some set combination mesh too well with them and Stam sorc is just legitimately broken. Also most of those nerfs were needed for mag sorc in thieves guild they were way too dominant. They had 4 abilities on their bar with over 11k tooltip damage something had to change. I also played magicka during those times but every fight I felt I could win if I played well

Minalan

thankyourat wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Emmagoldman wrote: »

@thankyourat
I dont know, balance hurts I guess. I dont know why its so hard for people who crutched on critting triple proc sets for a year + to figure out that maybe they arent really that good when armor doesnt do a majority of your dmg and with a critrush or suprise attack you could one shot a majority of classes.

Sorry, if you spent a year smashing mag sorcs and eating them as ap cookies because they were a joke, and now, with more balance you are not winning everytime. I bet you are not putting shield breaker?

During the hard stam meta, i put huge cp into bastion then hardy, and about 20 less cp in the cp against mag dmg.

Magsorcs and stamnb are meant to be bursty and both crumble if they have heavy focus. But really, 2h anything is bursty as well. Figure out what is the best role of your class and with the group you run with. If your pugging, its going to be hard

I started magsorc but now role stamdk in medium (fiord jailbreaker). I have 30 cp in shieldbreaker, dual stam/mag poison or fire glyph. In the group I run with I stay back, scan targets, and will target healers first, weak targets, or sorcs. Want a good laugh? Be a orc stamdk, with the dualwield expedition skill and chase them down after 3 streak, crit rush, into fossilize, dizzy, dawnbreaker, execute. Game over.

Lol I have 2 stamina toons that I hardly ever play, I main a magblade and i play magsorc for a change of pace. Mag sorc was never a joke it was still good in dark brotherhood. It was still better than the other magicka classes. If sorcs were getting smashed it was because they were bad, because the class was good. I played melee magblade for like the last week I don't have any sympathy for anyone right now

Mag Sorcs were great during dark Brotherhood?



Shields were nerfed to 6 seconds
Power surge heal was nerfed
Curse was still blockable
Crit rush, heavy, wrecking blow was a thing, lol Wrobel's macroslice.
Every attack we had was either blockable or reflect-able, usually both
Dawnbreaker became physical damage, while still okay, it's nothing compared to what it was.
Destro staff damage was behind every other weapon in the game.

I stuck with it, and got farmed by stam builds. We spent about a year being trash before 1-T finally opened up enough build options and the weapon ultimates to make sorc competitive again.

I never said they were great, I said they were good. they weren't the best or the worse they were right in the middle it was balanced 1T made sorcs unbalanced they rose to level of stam dk and Stam sorc 2 very broken classes now mag sorc is part of that group. Stam dk and mag sorc are broken because some set combination mesh too well with them and Stam sorc is just legitimately broken. Also most of those nerfs were needed for mag sorc in thieves guild they were way too dominant. They had 4 abilities on their bar with over 11k tooltip damage something had to change. I also played magicka during those times but every fight I felt I could win if I played well

"Good" for you maybe, but not the rest of us who played them. You can't seriously call DB Sorcs competitive. If that's what you consider 'good' I can't take anything you say remotely serious.

thankyourat

Minalan wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Emmagoldman wrote: »

@thankyourat
I dont know, balance hurts I guess. I dont know why its so hard for people who crutched on critting triple proc sets for a year + to figure out that maybe they arent really that good when armor doesnt do a majority of your dmg and with a critrush or suprise attack you could one shot a majority of classes.

Sorry, if you spent a year smashing mag sorcs and eating them as ap cookies because they were a joke, and now, with more balance you are not winning everytime. I bet you are not putting shield breaker?

During the hard stam meta, i put huge cp into bastion then hardy, and about 20 less cp in the cp against mag dmg.

Magsorcs and stamnb are meant to be bursty and both crumble if they have heavy focus. But really, 2h anything is bursty as well. Figure out what is the best role of your class and with the group you run with. If your pugging, its going to be hard

I started magsorc but now role stamdk in medium (fiord jailbreaker). I have 30 cp in shieldbreaker, dual stam/mag poison or fire glyph. In the group I run with I stay back, scan targets, and will target healers first, weak targets, or sorcs. Want a good laugh? Be a orc stamdk, with the dualwield expedition skill and chase them down after 3 streak, crit rush, into fossilize, dizzy, dawnbreaker, execute. Game over.

Lol I have 2 stamina toons that I hardly ever play, I main a magblade and i play magsorc for a change of pace. Mag sorc was never a joke it was still good in dark brotherhood. It was still better than the other magicka classes. If sorcs were getting smashed it was because they were bad, because the class was good. I played melee magblade for like the last week I don't have any sympathy for anyone right now

Mag Sorcs were great during dark Brotherhood?



Shields were nerfed to 6 seconds
Power surge heal was nerfed
Curse was still blockable
Crit rush, heavy, wrecking blow was a thing, lol Wrobel's macroslice.
Every attack we had was either blockable or reflect-able, usually both
Dawnbreaker became physical damage, while still okay, it's nothing compared to what it was.
Destro staff damage was behind every other weapon in the game.

I stuck with it, and got farmed by stam builds. We spent about a year being trash before 1-T finally opened up enough build options and the weapon ultimates to make sorc competitive again.

I never said they were great, I said they were good. they weren't the best or the worse they were right in the middle it was balanced 1T made sorcs unbalanced they rose to level of stam dk and Stam sorc 2 very broken classes now mag sorc is part of that group. Stam dk and mag sorc are broken because some set combination mesh too well with them and Stam sorc is just legitimately broken. Also most of those nerfs were needed for mag sorc in thieves guild they were way too dominant. They had 4 abilities on their bar with over 11k tooltip damage something had to change. I also played magicka during those times but every fight I felt I could win if I played well

"Good" for you maybe, but not the rest of us who played them. You can't seriously call DB Sorcs competitive. If that's what you consider 'good' I can't take anything you say remotely serious.

They were right in the middle they were still better than every mag class all those resource needs hurt every mag class not just sorcs the increase in stamina burst also made light armor not viable for anything except sorcs. I don't think being ranked 4 out of 8 is bad at all. I would consider being ranked in the middle good and very balanced. Honestly I think what happened is mag sorcs were so good they didn't know what it felt like to be balanced there was nothing wrong with magsorc if anything light armor could've used a slight buff, and a small nerf to stamina resource management would've made the game very balanced overall. What ever nerfs magsorc got mag dk and magblade was hit twice as hard. Those were the classes that really needed buffs back in the dark brotherhood. Also 1v1 magsorc was still very competitive I spent most of dark brotherhood dueling in the sewers and sorcs were still very good at dueling

Minalan

thankyourat wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Emmagoldman wrote: »

@thankyourat
I dont know, balance hurts I guess. I dont know why its so hard for people who crutched on critting triple proc sets for a year + to figure out that maybe they arent really that good when armor doesnt do a majority of your dmg and with a critrush or suprise attack you could one shot a majority of classes.

Sorry, if you spent a year smashing mag sorcs and eating them as ap cookies because they were a joke, and now, with more balance you are not winning everytime. I bet you are not putting shield breaker?

During the hard stam meta, i put huge cp into bastion then hardy, and about 20 less cp in the cp against mag dmg.

Magsorcs and stamnb are meant to be bursty and both crumble if they have heavy focus. But really, 2h anything is bursty as well. Figure out what is the best role of your class and with the group you run with. If your pugging, its going to be hard

I started magsorc but now role stamdk in medium (fiord jailbreaker). I have 30 cp in shieldbreaker, dual stam/mag poison or fire glyph. In the group I run with I stay back, scan targets, and will target healers first, weak targets, or sorcs. Want a good laugh? Be a orc stamdk, with the dualwield expedition skill and chase them down after 3 streak, crit rush, into fossilize, dizzy, dawnbreaker, execute. Game over.

Lol I have 2 stamina toons that I hardly ever play, I main a magblade and i play magsorc for a change of pace. Mag sorc was never a joke it was still good in dark brotherhood. It was still better than the other magicka classes. If sorcs were getting smashed it was because they were bad, because the class was good. I played melee magblade for like the last week I don't have any sympathy for anyone right now

Mag Sorcs were great during dark Brotherhood?



Shields were nerfed to 6 seconds
Power surge heal was nerfed
Curse was still blockable
Crit rush, heavy, wrecking blow was a thing, lol Wrobel's macroslice.
Every attack we had was either blockable or reflect-able, usually both
Dawnbreaker became physical damage, while still okay, it's nothing compared to what it was.
Destro staff damage was behind every other weapon in the game.

I stuck with it, and got farmed by stam builds. We spent about a year being trash before 1-T finally opened up enough build options and the weapon ultimates to make sorc competitive again.

I never said they were great, I said they were good. they weren't the best or the worse they were right in the middle it was balanced 1T made sorcs unbalanced they rose to level of stam dk and Stam sorc 2 very broken classes now mag sorc is part of that group. Stam dk and mag sorc are broken because some set combination mesh too well with them and Stam sorc is just legitimately broken. Also most of those nerfs were needed for mag sorc in thieves guild they were way too dominant. They had 4 abilities on their bar with over 11k tooltip damage something had to change. I also played magicka during those times but every fight I felt I could win if I played well

"Good" for you maybe, but not the rest of us who played them. You can't seriously call DB Sorcs competitive. If that's what you consider 'good' I can't take anything you say remotely serious.

They were right in the middle they were still better than every mag class all those resource needs hurt every mag class not just sorcs the increase in stamina burst also made light armor not viable for anything except sorcs. I don't think being ranked 4 out of 8 is bad at all. I would consider being ranked in the middle good and very balanced. Honestly I think what happened is mag sorcs were so good they didn't know what it felt like to be balanced there was nothing wrong with magsorc if anything light armor could've used a slight buff, and a small nerf to stamina resource management would've made the game very balanced overall. What ever nerfs magsorc got mag dk and magblade was hit twice as hard. Those were the classes that really needed buffs back in the dark brotherhood. Also 1v1 magsorc was still very competitive I spent most of dark brotherhood dueling in the sewers and sorcs were still very good at dueling

Wrong again. Templars were at the top of the DB Magicka pile, they worked best with the heavy armor meta. Dark Brotherhood Magicka Sorcs were only slightly better off than MagDK, which wasn't saying much.

Torbschka

As a main stamina and magicka sorcerer all I can say is, I eat mag sorcs alive.

Mag sorcs are a reactive class, look out for wars, always have vigor up ans bait them (if they have frag ready - charge in, they will want to stun burst u, u block, shields down, DB stun , GG).

I have 0 problems fighting a mag sorc, but well, i play it myself and know most of it strengthes/weaknesses

thankyourat

Minalan wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Emmagoldman wrote: »

@thankyourat
I dont know, balance hurts I guess. I dont know why its so hard for people who crutched on critting triple proc sets for a year + to figure out that maybe they arent really that good when armor doesnt do a majority of your dmg and with a critrush or suprise attack you could one shot a majority of classes.

Sorry, if you spent a year smashing mag sorcs and eating them as ap cookies because they were a joke, and now, with more balance you are not winning everytime. I bet you are not putting shield breaker?

During the hard stam meta, i put huge cp into bastion then hardy, and about 20 less cp in the cp against mag dmg.

Magsorcs and stamnb are meant to be bursty and both crumble if they have heavy focus. But really, 2h anything is bursty as well. Figure out what is the best role of your class and with the group you run with. If your pugging, its going to be hard

I started magsorc but now role stamdk in medium (fiord jailbreaker). I have 30 cp in shieldbreaker, dual stam/mag poison or fire glyph. In the group I run with I stay back, scan targets, and will target healers first, weak targets, or sorcs. Want a good laugh? Be a orc stamdk, with the dualwield expedition skill and chase them down after 3 streak, crit rush, into fossilize, dizzy, dawnbreaker, execute. Game over.

Lol I have 2 stamina toons that I hardly ever play, I main a magblade and i play magsorc for a change of pace. Mag sorc was never a joke it was still good in dark brotherhood. It was still better than the other magicka classes. If sorcs were getting smashed it was because they were bad, because the class was good. I played melee magblade for like the last week I don't have any sympathy for anyone right now

Mag Sorcs were great during dark Brotherhood?



Shields were nerfed to 6 seconds
Power surge heal was nerfed
Curse was still blockable
Crit rush, heavy, wrecking blow was a thing, lol Wrobel's macroslice.
Every attack we had was either blockable or reflect-able, usually both
Dawnbreaker became physical damage, while still okay, it's nothing compared to what it was.
Destro staff damage was behind every other weapon in the game.

I stuck with it, and got farmed by stam builds. We spent about a year being trash before 1-T finally opened up enough build options and the weapon ultimates to make sorc competitive again.

I never said they were great, I said they were good. they weren't the best or the worse they were right in the middle it was balanced 1T made sorcs unbalanced they rose to level of stam dk and Stam sorc 2 very broken classes now mag sorc is part of that group. Stam dk and mag sorc are broken because some set combination mesh too well with them and Stam sorc is just legitimately broken. Also most of those nerfs were needed for mag sorc in thieves guild they were way too dominant. They had 4 abilities on their bar with over 11k tooltip damage something had to change. I also played magicka during those times but every fight I felt I could win if I played well

"Good" for you maybe, but not the rest of us who played them. You can't seriously call DB Sorcs competitive. If that's what you consider 'good' I can't take anything you say remotely serious.

They were right in the middle they were still better than every mag class all those resource needs hurt every mag class not just sorcs the increase in stamina burst also made light armor not viable for anything except sorcs. I don't think being ranked 4 out of 8 is bad at all. I would consider being ranked in the middle good and very balanced. Honestly I think what happened is mag sorcs were so good they didn't know what it felt like to be balanced there was nothing wrong with magsorc if anything light armor could've used a slight buff, and a small nerf to stamina resource management would've made the game very balanced overall. What ever nerfs magsorc got mag dk and magblade was hit twice as hard. Those were the classes that really needed buffs back in the dark brotherhood. Also 1v1 magsorc was still very competitive I spent most of dark brotherhood dueling in the sewers and sorcs were still very good at dueling

Wrong again. Templars were at the top of the DB Magicka pile, they worked best with the heavy armor meta. Dark Brotherhood Magicka Sorcs were only slightly better off than MagDK, which wasn't saying much.

Magplar had always been very overrated for duels and solo PvP. It's great for group play but it has never been as good as sorc for solo PvP even with heavy armor buffs. Magsorc was still better for solo PvP