Minimum DPS and CP requirement for just(!) finishing vMoL?

Dantaria

So we had a rather heated discussion in guild and I would really love to get an answer from experienced people

What DPS each DD need to pull so the team can just complete vMoL? Not vet HM, not some impact on leaderboard and not burning Rakkhat on first platform If we assume that people have run nMoL 10+ times and know mechanics well. Without skipping mechanics (5 pillars on Zhaj'hassa, Rakkhat Lunar Phase, etc), how much DPS in needed?

And also, how much CP? I understand that it's a subjective question, but approximately how much you need in Sturdy and Elemental Defender so vMoL would be possible?

TL;DR: at which CP and DPS point it makes sense to start progressing through vet MoL, if there is no leaderboard and skipping mechanics ambition?

Greydir

In my Opinion the Biggest hindrances are the Twin boss, and the last 10% of Rakkaht.

The first Boss will require you to do about 50M Damage in approximately 450seconds. This results in a Minimum DPS of about 14K, if no one makes any Mistakes (Highly unlikely in a Fight longer than 7 minutes).

The Twins are a Soft DPS Check in that regard, as you will eventually be overwhelmed if too many adds do Spawn. If less DPS is done, more time is needed to Focus the adds. This results in less Damage done on the Boss (especially the Dark one) which in turn results in a longer Fight and more Spawning adds. This in turn will eventually result in Player Deaths and DPS loss. With that said I can imagine that this Fight can probably finished successfully with a DPS of 20K Per Person. That is still give or take and will definitely rely on luck and well executed mechanics.

The Endphase of Rakkaht results in approximately 7.2M Damage the must be done in about 60 seconds. So mathematically this Results in a DPS of 15k per DD, but there are mecanics that need to be executed to perfection, which is something that is really hard after 10+runs. So if an orb is not taken and this results in 10 seconds of increased resistance, the DPS requirement will Spike upwards to 30K+ Same if someone dies (which, since this is rakkaht end phase is not that rare of an Appearance.)

So for a estimate on the low end I myself would say about 25k DPS as a minimum requirement to be able to win is very reasonable. This will give you some margin of error albeit a small one.
If your Group executes all Mechanics absolutely Perfect i think a Damage of 15-20k Per DD might suffice, but in my experience the players who cant get their DPS to work, are more often also the Players who will execute Mechanics on the sloppy side.

My own Raidgroup has a Requirement at about 32K DPS on a static Target for new DDs. Additional requirements for continued participation would be the uptake on executing mechanics.

CP wise i would Say minimum 300 CP but it will get far easier with 400-500+

code65536

CP isn't that important. Hodor almost beat it on the PTS last year with 300 CP templates, and that was before the power creep. The reason you don't see low CP players beating it isn't because their CP is too low, but rather because players with that low amount of CP simply have not played the game long enough to have the appropriate amount of dungeon and trial experience.

With the ease of earning CP with enlightenment, catchup-scaling, etc., by the time someone has played enough content to be comfortable with their character and the game's combat mechanics, they'll almost always be well over 300 CP. I personally know a player who first cleared vMoL with around 450 CP in a non-carry group (i.e., most of the others in the group had a similar level of experience).

As for DPS, you can skip lunar on Rakkhat with around 240K total group DPS. Keep in mind, though, that you'll have only 6 DPS during pads 3 and 5 as people are running in the back. And total group DPS also includes the damage the hulks are taking in cleave. Skipping lunar on Rakkhat makes the fight much easier, so that's a benchmark that most groups aim for. But personally, I don't think lunar is that difficult--it's hard mostly because most groups skip it and never get any practice with it.

The main DPS challenge isn't Rakkhat. It's the twins. That fight gets progressively harder the longer it drags on, and it will be a struggle to beat it if you can't kill the twins before the 4-adds phase (it caps out at 4, though). And it's rare to see a group that can beat it if they are seeing multiple 4-adds phases. In my experience, I'd say that 200K total group DPS on the twins is the minimum to beat it at all, but it will be very tough and difficult, and you'll wipe a lot. 240K total group DPS is the target to hit to beat twins without much hardship. And 280K+ total group DPS on twins to beat it comfortably.

You'll notice that I'm speaking of total group DPS here, which is what really matters. None of the fights in vMoL are pure single-target, and AoE cleave damage is very important.

WuffyCerulei

Not sure about CP, probs around 500 for the defensive bonuses. However, I know various vMaw groups require at least 30k DPS.

Dantaria

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

Not sure about CP, probs around 500 for the defensive bonuses. However, I know various vMaw groups require at least 30k DPS.

Yes, I heard this also and my point in the guild discussion was exactly that it seems like an overkill. Or not overkill but "safe" option: it's not completing vMoL, it's completing vMoL with comparative ease.

I've heard too many times that you can't complete vet HM DLC dungs, if you're not 600cp. But me and guildies decided that heck, let's give it a try, and finished HM Velidreth with 330CP DD (me), 300CP tank, 400CP DD and 400CP heal.

It wasn't easy. Oh, it so wasn't. But we managed.

30k DPS solo ~ 35k DPS in trial group. Really? That much for just managing it?

redspecter23

The real answer is, whatever the raid lead tells you they want for it. If the lead says 600cp minimum and you want to be in that group, you go get 600cp, not because it's necessary but because it shows your level of commitment to that group. Your other option of course is to become the raid lead and set your own restrictions, but I'll tell you from experience that about 99.999999999% of players don't want to lead, they want to follow.

Dantaria

@Greydir, thank you so much! Very detailed answer, thank you! One little question:

Greydir wrote: »

So for a estimate on the low end I myself would say about 25k DPS as a minimum requirement to be able to win is very reasonable. This will give you some margin of error albeit a small one.

25k DPS solo or 25k DPS group-environment?

Greydir

In my experience, if you cant pull that semi solo (base buffs like drain might still apply), you will not be able to pull that while executing the occurring mechanics in the group environment of vMoL

Additionaly: If you set a requirement as low as 25K expect some long trys of working on the mechanics.

Dantaria

Greydir wrote: »

In my experience, if you cant pull that semi solo (base buffs like drain might still apply), you will not be able to pull that while executing the occurring mechanics in the group environment of vMoL

Fair enough From the one hand, Warhorn and Co, from the other - you don't, after all, beat to submission stationary target

@code65536, thanks a lot! You enlighted me I honestly thought Twins are more "tank-check", because the only reason we wiped on them on normal were new tanks not being able to swap them when colors change (well, and newbies running to group with another color, but that's classic and doesn't count ). I've never seen more than 2 adds total on normal! Thanks for information. And big thanks for numbers!

code65536

Dantaria wrote: »

Greydir wrote: »

In my experience, if you cant pull that semi solo (base buffs like drain might still apply), you will not be able to pull that while executing the occurring mechanics in the group environment of vMoL

Fair enough From the one hand, Warhorn and Co, from the other - you don't, after all, beat to submission stationary target

@code65536, thanks a lot! You enlighted me I honestly thought Twins are more "tank-check", because the only reason we wiped on them on normal were new tanks not being able to swap them when colors change (well, and newbies running to group with another color, but that's classic and doesn't count ). I've never seen more than 2 adds total on normal! Thanks for information. And big thanks for numbers!

Well, mechanics come first. Always. When doing training/progression runs for getting people first clears, I always tell them that mastering mechanics is the top priority, not DPS. Avoiding death is the biggest boost to DPS, because each time someone dies, not only do you lose their DPS, but also the DPS of someone who has to stop and rez them. Positioning and movement are important, too. Being able to position the twins correctly and getting the adds grouped up in a timely manner is essential to getting high DPS on the twins fight. For Rakkhat, mechanics are even more important than twins, though they are much more subtle and not obvious from watching a video. I've seen tanks that do well on twins completely falter on Rakkhat because they never fully grasped the nuances of tanking Rakkhat--positioning, hulk trading, and handling pad transitions. And for the DPS and healers, there are a lot of mechanics on Rakkhat for them to master, too.

As group members master the mechanics, eliminate deaths, improve positioning, and get more comfortable with doing DPS at mechanics at the same time, the group's DPS will naturally go up.

Woeler

code65536 wrote: »

CP isn't that important. Hodor almost beat it on the PTS last year with 300 CP templates, and that was before the power creep. The reason you don't see low CP players beating it isn't because their CP is too low, but rather because players with that low amount of CP simply have not played the game long enough to have the appropriate amount of dungeon and trial experience.

With the ease of earning CP with enlightenment, catchup-scaling, etc., by the time someone has played enough content to be comfortable with their character and the game's combat mechanics, they'll almost always be well over 300 CP. I personally know a player who first cleared vMoL with around 450 CP in a non-carry group (i.e., most of the others in the group had a similar level of experience).

As for DPS, you can skip lunar on Rakkhat with around 240K total group DPS. Keep in mind, though, that you'll have only 6 DPS during pads 3 and 5 as people are running in the back. And total group DPS also includes the damage the hulks are taking in cleave. Skipping lunar on Rakkhat makes the fight much easier, so that's a benchmark that most groups aim for. But personally, I don't think lunar is that difficult--it's hard mostly because most groups skip it and never get any practice with it.

The main DPS challenge isn't Rakkhat. It's the twins. That fight gets progressively harder the longer it drags on, and it will be a struggle to beat it if you can't kill the twins before the 4-adds phase (it caps out at 4, though). And it's rare to see a group that can beat it if they are seeing multiple 4-adds phases. In my experience, I'd say that 200K total group DPS on the twins is the minimum to beat it at all, but it will be very tough and difficult, and you'll wipe a lot. 240K total group DPS is the target to hit to beat twins without much hardship. And 280K+ total group DPS on twins to beat it comfortably.

You'll notice that I'm speaking of total group DPS here, which is what really matters. None of the fights in vMoL are pure single-target, and AoE cleave damage is very important.

Hodor did not almost beat it on the PTS at all. In fact, nobody got past the second boss until they nerfed it so we could test the endboss.

The first ever clear was on live with max cp and still took like 2 months.

YoloWizard

Woeler wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

CP isn't that important. Hodor almost beat it on the PTS last year with 300 CP templates, and that was before the power creep. The reason you don't see low CP players beating it isn't because their CP is too low, but rather because players with that low amount of CP simply have not played the game long enough to have the appropriate amount of dungeon and trial experience.

With the ease of earning CP with enlightenment, catchup-scaling, etc., by the time someone has played enough content to be comfortable with their character and the game's combat mechanics, they'll almost always be well over 300 CP. I personally know a player who first cleared vMoL with around 450 CP in a non-carry group (i.e., most of the others in the group had a similar level of experience).

As for DPS, you can skip lunar on Rakkhat with around 240K total group DPS. Keep in mind, though, that you'll have only 6 DPS during pads 3 and 5 as people are running in the back. And total group DPS also includes the damage the hulks are taking in cleave. Skipping lunar on Rakkhat makes the fight much easier, so that's a benchmark that most groups aim for. But personally, I don't think lunar is that difficult--it's hard mostly because most groups skip it and never get any practice with it.

The main DPS challenge isn't Rakkhat. It's the twins. That fight gets progressively harder the longer it drags on, and it will be a struggle to beat it if you can't kill the twins before the 4-adds phase (it caps out at 4, though). And it's rare to see a group that can beat it if they are seeing multiple 4-adds phases. In my experience, I'd say that 200K total group DPS on the twins is the minimum to beat it at all, but it will be very tough and difficult, and you'll wipe a lot. 240K total group DPS is the target to hit to beat twins without much hardship. And 280K+ total group DPS on twins to beat it comfortably.

You'll notice that I'm speaking of total group DPS here, which is what really matters. None of the fights in vMoL are pure single-target, and AoE cleave damage is very important.

Hodor did not almost beat it on the PTS at all. In fact, nobody got past the second boss until they nerfed it so we could test the endboss.

The first ever clear was on live with max cp and still took like 2 months.

We cleared it within 3 weeks

xblackroxe

Well it all really depends. The less cp you have the more experienced your ppl gotta be to make up for the loss of defense and ressources mainly.
Its not really the dps thats the problem. If you have like 25-30k dps it should be mostly fine. Much more important is that you play the mechanics and survive.

timidobserver

Well if you want an exact answer that can't be debated, find out how long on it takes the first boss to run out of pillars and then use math to figure out the average amount of group dps is needed to kill him before then. I am not sure if Rakkat or the Twins have a hard rage mechanic(never had them alive long enough to find out), but if they do, then do the same for them.

Splattercat_83

Are you talking 25-30k per dps before raid buffs,or after? Vet maw and vet sanctum ophidia it's the only two vet trials I have yet to clear, due to the time of day I can play now due to my job, and family (mostly late nights). I really want to do vet maw, I just didn't know what the dps requirements were for a clear.

I don't want to waste anyone's time if I get a group for vet maw once it's fixed on xbox. I can average 33-35k doing a solo dps test. I can do towards 37-38k if I got someone running worm and ele drain for me.

Here is an example:
[media]https://youtu.be/17EmdljK9fo[/media]

WarpigFunk

Got my skin at around cp 518 iirc? ... was a runner for last fight. Was doing 38-40k skelly dps on magsorc anyway, and had 100 points in ele defender for maw.

Depends on your role- but for DD, as long as you can stack some elemental damage resist and spell resist, and hit 30-35k dps+ - you can do it at any CP. Prob need 300+ cp to hit that stuff though, unless you're a superhuman elite tier DDer.

Theres a tank on NA PS4 that was walking around with a skin at 160cp. Not a carry either, he main tanked the whole way. Granted he was apparently a 600 cp player that lost his account somehow and had to remake his characters with guildies helping him out getting gear and golding it out ... but still, tanked vet twins and rakkhat at 160 cp.

As a healer I prob wouldn't want to heal vmol with under 30k mag and close to or over 2k recovery... unless the team I was healing was super familiar with each other and with the content.

Splattercat_83 wrote: »

Are you talking 25-30k per dps before raid buffs,or after? Vet maw and vet sanctum ophidia it's the only two vet trials I have yet to clear, due to the time of day I can play now due to my job, and family (mostly late nights). I really want to do vet maw, I just didn't know what the dps requirements were for a clear.

I don't want to waste anyone's time if I get a group for vet maw once it's fixed on xbox. I can average 33-35k doing a solo dps test. I can do towards 37-38k if I got someone running worm and ele drain for me.

Here is an example:
[media]https://youtu.be/17EmdljK9fo[/media]

DPS requirements for a clear are predicated on around 220-240k group DPS, to get Twins before too many add spawns, and skip Lunar phase on Rakk - Those numbers leave a little margin for error (people getting res'd, runners taking too long, etc ...) 8 damage dealers, that's an average of 30k DPS each. Can be done with 25k DPS per DD, but then NO ONE can die and everything has to go perfectly smooth. Better to have 35-40k on your DDs though, so you have a nice cushion for errors and are all but guaranteed to skip Lunar.


Also -
Animation cancel your force pulse and frags and you'll be able to get 5-6 weave/casts in, in between each dot rotation without letting dots fall off. [Barswap]-LA-FP-[Block]-LA-FP-[Block]-LA-Frag-[Block]-LA-FP-[Block]-LA-Frag-[Barswap]

Thats the major difference between like 38-42k DPS and like 45-49k DPS.

Drummerx04

As summarized in previous posts, being generally good at not dying is basically more important than dealing insane dps.
30k st solo is usually around the level when you can clear any content in the game without much difficulty IF you can keep yourself alive.

Deaths are basically always the biggest hindrance in EVERY raid I've ever been in.

Drummerx04

WarpigFunk wrote: »

Also -
Animation cancel your force pulse and frags and you'll be able to get 5-6 weave/casts in, in between each dot rotation without letting dots fall off. [Barswap]-LA-FP-[Block]-LA-FP-[Block]-LA-Frag-[Block]-LA-FP-[Block]-LA-Frag-[Barswap]

Thats the major difference between like 38-42k DPS and like 45-49k DPS.

I suppose I could be doing it wrong... but hundreds-thousands of pvp hours ani cancelling on sorc leads me to believe I'm doing it mostly right.

On a robust skeleton running my own ele and self buffing with surge and various other sub optimal minor factors (like dual bar lightning and precise backbar), I pull a consistent and reliable 30-32k without block cancelling anything. With block cancelling I deal the same damage.

My understanding is that global cooldowns are a thing, so either I'm doing it REALLY badly which I doubt, or you are still under the notion that animation cancelling is some sort of black voodoo instantaneous dps increase which in my experience, it's not.

lolo_01b16_ESO

Just checked one of our old videos from almost a year ago.
Total group dps before lunar was 180k. So that's ~25k dps including raid buffs and cleave damage.

However currently it's probably easier to push your dps a bit further to ~240k group dps and skip lunar.

code65536

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

Just checked one of our old videos from almost a year ago.
Total group dps before lunar was 180k. So that's ~25k dps including raid buffs and cleave damage.

However currently it's probably easier to push your dps a bit further to ~240k group dps and skip lunar.

I remember those days. The thing to keep in mind, though, is that much of the DPS increase is not due to power creep. Power creep helps, of course. But much of it comes from experience and strategy. E.g., better avoidance of damage/deaths, better positioning, and smarter strategies (not burning hulk and instead focusing on Rakkhat).

WarpigFunk

Drummerx04 wrote: »

WarpigFunk wrote: »

Also -
Animation cancel your force pulse and frags and you'll be able to get 5-6 weave/casts in, in between each dot rotation without letting dots fall off. [Barswap]-LA-FP-[Block]-LA-FP-[Block]-LA-Frag-[Block]-LA-FP-[Block]-LA-Frag-[Barswap]

Thats the major difference between like 38-42k DPS and like 45-49k DPS.

I suppose I could be doing it wrong... but hundreds-thousands of pvp hours ani cancelling on sorc leads me to believe I'm doing it mostly right.

On a robust skeleton running my own ele and self buffing with surge and various other sub optimal minor factors (like dual bar lightning and precise backbar), I pull a consistent and reliable 30-32k without block cancelling anything. With block cancelling I deal the same damage.

My understanding is that global cooldowns are a thing, so either I'm doing it REALLY badly which I doubt, or you are still under the notion that animation cancelling is some sort of black voodoo instantaneous dps increase which in my experience, it's not.

1. I think you mean target skeleton. The Robust has 6m health and 32k dps self buffed solo would be pretty good for a sorc considering resource issues.

2. dual lightning if you're running a pet, is not sub optimal, it's best in slot for a skelly test or anything solo.

3. With regard to block canceling, if you're not seeing it increase your numbers, you're prob just not doing it right.
For reference - without any block canceling, my time solo self buffed on the skelly is around 80 secs ... usually 37-38k

This is by myself, applying my own drain: The robust skelly number is me just building ulti ... the target khajit number is solo full rotation test - using random staffs and dual lightning.





It's certainly not voodoo ... however - block canceling your FP/Frags is the only way to squeez 6, 7 or even 8 fp/la weaves in between dot rotations without letting dots fall off.

It's simple math - your rotation is simply, lay down dots / curse / pet - FP/LA/Frag weave until you need to refresh dots ...
If one player is hitting 5 FP weaves then refreshing dots - and another is hitting 7+ FP weaves, then refreshing dots ... and both are refreshing dots JUST before they fall off - then obviously player 2 is pulling substantially higher DPS.

Me personally- I'm still terribly inconsistent with it - Without any block canceling I pull 37-38k self buffed solo on the 3m skelly. With worm/ drain - it's 40-42. I'm trying to push that over 45 at the moment, and finding that theres not much room for improvement unless I integrate block canceling.

I know one sorc on my server that consistently hits 47k and another who has hit over 49k (just worm/drain) - BOTH are block canceling fp and frags ... both are frankly superhuman imo - but the fact remains - If you're a DDer and you're plateau'd on DPS but know you can do better - then practicing this method of block canceling everything in your weaves is your next evolutionary step.

And it's tough ... takes alot of practice from what I'm seeing. I'm working on it right now.

And no, it's certainly not necessary .... anything over like, 35k frankly is overkill, unless you're consistently carrying a weak team - but it's a way to get better, which is always the point.

Drummerx04

WarpigFunk wrote: »

1. I think you mean target skeleton. The Robust has 6m health and 32k dps self buffed solo would be pretty good for a sorc considering resource issues.

2. dual lightning if you're running a pet, is not sub optimal, it's best in slot for a skelly test or anything solo.

3. With regard to block canceling, if you're not seeing it increase your numbers, you're prob just not doing it right.
For reference - without any block canceling, my time solo self buffed on the skelly is around 80 secs ... usually 37-38k

This is by myself, applying my own drain: The robust skelly number is me just building ulti ... the target khajit number is solo full rotation test - using random staffs and dual lightning.





It's certainly not voodoo ... however - block canceling your FP/Frags is the only way to squeez 6, 7 or even 8 fp/la weaves in between dot rotations without letting dots fall off.

It's simple math - your rotation is simply, lay down dots / curse / pet - FP/LA/Frag weave until you need to refresh dots ...
If one player is hitting 5 FP weaves then refreshing dots - and another is hitting 7+ FP weaves, then refreshing dots ... and both are refreshing dots JUST before they fall off - then obviously player 2 is pulling substantially higher DPS.

Me personally- I'm still terribly inconsistent with it - Without any block canceling I pull 37-38k self buffed solo on the 3m skelly. With worm/ drain - it's 40-42. I'm trying to push that over 45 at the moment, and finding that theres not much room for improvement unless I integrate block canceling.

I know one sorc on my server that consistently hits 47k and another who has hit over 49k (just worm/drain) - BOTH are block canceling fp and frags ... both are frankly superhuman imo - but the fact remains - If you're a DDer and you're plateau'd on DPS but know you can do better - then practicing this method of block canceling everything in your weaves is your next evolutionary step.

And it's tough ... takes alot of practice from what I'm seeing. I'm working on it right now.

And no, it's certainly not necessary .... anything over like, 35k frankly is overkill, unless you're consistently carrying a weak team - but it's a way to get better, which is always the point.

I actually did mean the robust skeleton, I know the difference. 32k no pet, takes a little over 3 minutes usually. (I use max mag/regen drink as a stand in for raid mag return via orbs)

As for the block cancelling, allowing me to get 7-8 weaved attacks in during dot upkeep, I can already do that without block cancelling. My point was that block cancelling doesn't bypass global cooldowns on a rotation, and thus shouldn't increase sustained dps.

In fights like vMA, block cancelling is great for artificially generating burst to push waves faster, but the targets in there have so little health that the strategy actually does save time, but in a trial... not that I've seen.

Drummerx04

.

lordhakai

For vmol i would say 25k just to be on the safe side

UggiAffe

How can you pull such high numbers solo on the skeleton without breaking your fingers? Are there some sort of gaming controller that help with Animation cancelling? Do i have to visually wait for the light attack and then use the FP, or do i have to push the buttons in a certain amount of time and the magic happens?
When i'm on my sorc and practice on the dummy, i cant sustain, i cant see the CF proc on my little hands, i dont know if my dots are up. What is the trick? Counting LA? I feel so bad after seeing what i could do and knowing what i actually do. I play on ps4, so i dont have any addons. With 2 ppl on the dummy (me and mag nightblade, otherwise i run out of magicka) i do 28k best. Oh and i wear ilambris, 5pc burning spellweave, and 3pc infblb aether, all purple, all divine. Infused vma inferno and random sharpened inferno on main, also purple.

Dantaria

UggiAffe wrote: »

Infused vma inferno and random sharpened inferno on main, also purple.

Well, here you go That's your main mistake

Weapons must always be golden. The difference between purple stave and gold stave - 200 spell power.

Gold out your weapon, and you'll make it to 30k.

+ practicing rotation. Frag proc is tricky, you have to watch fot it without addons. But general timings become automatic with some practice. I do not need to see timings of my blockade and liquid - I simply feel it now, I know when to swap, because 1-2 sec and I need to reapply.

+ do heavy attacks. They help with sustain and generate ult. Even one HA per rotation makes a lot of difference. Practice and in time you'll feel how many HAs you need.

Izaki

WarpigFunk wrote: »

Got my skin at around cp 518 iirc? ... was a runner for last fight. Was doing 38-40k skelly dps on magsorc anyway, and had 100 points in ele defender for maw.

Depends on your role- but for DD, as long as you can stack some elemental damage resist and spell resist, and hit 30-35k dps+ - you can do it at any CP. Prob need 300+ cp to hit that stuff though, unless you're a superhuman elite tier DDer.

Theres a tank on NA PS4 that was walking around with a skin at 160cp. Not a carry either, he main tanked the whole way. Granted he was apparently a 600 cp player that lost his account somehow and had to remake his characters with guildies helping him out getting gear and golding it out ... but still, tanked vet twins and rakkhat at 160 cp.

As a healer I prob wouldn't want to heal vmol with under 30k mag and close to or over 2k recovery... unless the team I was healing was super familiar with each other and with the content.

Splattercat_83 wrote: »

Are you talking 25-30k per dps before raid buffs,or after? Vet maw and vet sanctum ophidia it's the only two vet trials I have yet to clear, due to the time of day I can play now due to my job, and family (mostly late nights). I really want to do vet maw, I just didn't know what the dps requirements were for a clear.

I don't want to waste anyone's time if I get a group for vet maw once it's fixed on xbox. I can average 33-35k doing a solo dps test. I can do towards 37-38k if I got someone running worm and ele drain for me.

Here is an example:
[media]https://youtu.be/17EmdljK9fo[/media]

DPS requirements for a clear are predicated on around 220-240k group DPS, to get Twins before too many add spawns, and skip Lunar phase on Rakk - Those numbers leave a little margin for error (people getting res'd, runners taking too long, etc ...) 8 damage dealers, that's an average of 30k DPS each. Can be done with 25k DPS per DD, but then NO ONE can die and everything has to go perfectly smooth. Better to have 35-40k on your DDs though, so you have a nice cushion for errors and are all but guaranteed to skip Lunar.


Also -
Animation cancel your force pulse and frags and you'll be able to get 5-6 weave/casts in, in between each dot rotation without letting dots fall off. [Barswap]-LA-FP-[Block]-LA-FP-[Block]-LA-Frag-[Block]-LA-FP-[Block]-LA-Frag-[Barswap]

Thats the major difference between like 38-42k DPS and like 45-49k DPS.

The statement i bolded, is false. Block canceling doesn't speed up the global cooldown on skills which is 1 second. No matter how much you block cancel your Force Pulse or Frags or any other skill, you'll still only do 1 skill per second at the maximum, so you won't sneak in more skills into a rotation if you block cancel them. The real advice is: focus on not missing any light attacks. That's arguably the biggest difference one can make in DPS. The only animation canceling you're doing in PvE is light attack weaving and bar swap canceling.

What you're talking about is the execution time, this can basically be mesured by standing there in front of a dummy and doing Light Attack > Force Pulse > repeat until you run out of magicka. Count the amount of weaves you've done. Divide that by the total time it took you to do all those weaves. Try to get that as close to 1 second as possible. Obviously, there are slight delays on certain skills, and there's always a delay when bar swapping. From here, you can see how many weaves you can do in between reapplying your DoTs. Usually, for an 8 sec DoT its about 7 skill casts, for a 10 sec its 9 skill casts, etc. etc. And it can't be sped up, because you can't bypass the global cooldowns of 1 sec on skill casts.

UggiAffe

Thank you very much for the reply. Its always good to know what i can do to improve myself. And its very nice to know what is possible. Now i have a new goal i would like to achieve thank you!

Izaki

Yeah guys, don't block cancel anything at all, it doesn't benefit you in any way, makes your character look stupid and you have to move your fingers more leading to eventual mistakes and miscasts.

The global cooldown is 1 sec on skills you can't bypass that. Light attacks don't share the same cooldown as skills. So in PvE you're overlapping those 2 globals. At this point a robot would be able to do Light Attack + Skill in 1 second. A human could get close, but its more like 1.05-1.1 sec depending on the skill. Block canceling does NOT speed that up. So save yourselves the trouble of doing something as useless and stupid looking as block canceling your skills!

http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/lI Izaki Il/video/29795795
^ This is roughly how it should look. I've missed some light attacks, I believe I landed 73% of the maximum number of light attacks possible, which kinda sucks, but I'm working on it.
I know, I know, only 40.8k, but that's with my own Drain, Mag+Regen food and no vMA inferno (I'm not lucky). I've gotten 42.8k with a healer applying Drain, Orbs and wearing Worm. (http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/lI Izaki Il/screenshot/6183654)
I believe that with a Maelstrom staff, I can get to 43.8k-44k as its basically a 1k DPS increase.

With a lightning staff on the back bar, its possible to reach 48k if you're lucky with the off-balance procs. But IMO that's kinda cheesing a DPS test, where you're meant to use your exact Trial setup, rather than spec'ing for max possible DPS on a dummy. (I still did one with a lightning staff back bar and inferno front bar and I got 47.3k LOL it could be better)

Splattercat_83

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Yeah guys, don't block cancel anything at all, it doesn't benefit you in any way, makes your character look stupid and you have to move your fingers more leading to eventual mistakes and miscasts.

The global cooldown is 1 sec on skills you can't bypass that. Light attacks don't share the same cooldown as skills. So in PvE you're overlapping those 2 globals. At this point a robot would be able to do Light Attack + Skill in 1 second. A human could get close, but its more like 1.05-1.1 sec depending on the skill. Block canceling does NOT speed that up. So save yourselves the trouble of doing something as useless and stupid looking as block canceling your skills!

http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/lI Izaki Il/video/29795795
^ This is roughly how it should look. I've missed some light attacks, I believe I landed 73% of the maximum number of light attacks possible, which kinda sucks, but I'm working on it.
I know, I know, only 40.8k, but that's with my own Drain, Mag+Regen food and no vMA inferno (I'm not lucky). I've gotten 42.8k with a healer applying Drain, Orbs and wearing Worm. (http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/lI Izaki Il/screenshot/6183654)
I believe that with a Maelstrom staff, I can get to 43.8k-44k as its basically a 1k DPS increase.

With a lightning staff on the back bar, its possible to reach 48k if you're lucky with the off-balance procs. But IMO that's kinda cheesing a DPS test, where you're meant to use your exact Trial setup, rather than spec'ing for max possible DPS on a dummy. (I still did one with a lightning staff back bar and inferno front bar and I got 47.3k LOL it could be better)

I run a lighting staff now on backbar, our healers weren't running lighting wall. It's a dps increase for me as I changed up my cp, and I'm sure it's a dps increase for those with exploiter unlocked as well
https://youtu.be/6CER8S_e5PU[/media]

UggiAffe

Ok.. What i dont get: i see your videos and rotation. In yolo wizards 54k dps video and in splattercats vid, you kill the dummy, you move away from the dummy and you still perform your rotation. The dummy is the dead, you realise its dead, so you move away from the dummy, why do you still cast your rotation?