Best Players NA

zyk

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

ZoS did not get any sort of control over cheat engine until a year ago . I would say we currently have a better idea of who the best players are now then 2 years ago . A lot of people thought to be the best and honest players turned out not to be . There are still some questions if people can use CE and even more exploits in question . This makes determining who is best difficult .

What makes you think ZOS has any sort of control over cheat engine? What happened a year ago is some players delivered undeniable proof memory hacking was a reality in ESO. ZOS promptly swept the issue under the rug. Memory hacking is still trivial in ESO. There is no evidence of the robust protection necessary to mitigate memory hacking. If ZOS did have a handle on memory hacking, it would likely publicize its success as that is a nice selling point. It's not like cheating is limited only to memory hacking either. The few that are banned for it were likely reckless about it.

ESO was heavily hyped and campaigns were packed in 2014. A lot of gamers and guilds came here to make a name for themselves in what could have been a blockbuster game. By 2015, it was apparent most were gone already.

The numbers below have been pulled out of my ass but are accurate enough to illustrate my point.

Let's say 5% of players are "good", that 500,000 PVP players (vs pve players getting achievements, testing waters, etc) have been active in Cyrodiil on PC/NA, and that a community of 10,000 active players remains.

5% of all time = 25,000
5% of current = 500

Even if I'm way off, it's safe to assume most "good" gamers who have played ESO left long ago. It's not like only the bad players quit and the best remained. If anything, it's the opposite as good players tend to be more intelligent and likely saw the writing on the wall.

I'm not trying to crap all over anyone, but the reality of the situation speaks for itself. So be humble and have fun without letting success get to your head like a beer league prima donna.

Rohamad_Ali

zyk wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

ZoS did not get any sort of control over cheat engine until a year ago . I would say we currently have a better idea of who the best players are now then 2 years ago . A lot of people thought to be the best and honest players turned out not to be . There are still some questions if people can use CE and even more exploits in question . This makes determining who is best difficult .

What makes you think ZOS has any sort of control over cheat engine? What happened a year ago is some players delivered undeniable proof memory hacking was a reality in ESO. ZOS promptly swept the issue under the rug. Memory hacking is still trivial in ESO. There is no evidence of the robust protection necessary to mitigate memory hacking. If ZOS did have a handle on memory hacking, it would likely publicize its success as that is a nice selling point. It's not like cheating is limited only to memory hacking either. The few that are banned for it were likely reckless about it.

ESO was heavily hyped and campaigns were packed in 2014. A lot of gamers and guilds came here to make a name for themselves in what could have been a blockbuster game. By 2015, it was apparent most were gone already.

The numbers below have been pulled out of my ass but are accurate enough to illustrate my point.

Let's say 5% of players are "good", that 500,000 PVP players (vs pve players getting achievements, testing waters, etc) have been active in Cyrodiil on PC/NA, and that a community of 10,000 active players remains.

5% of all time = 25,000
5% of current = 500

Even if I'm way off, it's safe to assume most "good" gamers who have played ESO left long ago. It's not like only the bad players quit and the best remained. If anything, it's the opposite as good players tend to be more intelligent and likely saw the writing on the wall.

I'm not trying to crap all over anyone, but the reality of the situation speaks for itself. So be humble and have fun without letting success get to your head like a beer league prima donna.

You used hypothetical math so I can only hypothetically disagree with you . Hypothetically of course .

I play for fun .

zyk

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

You used hypothetical math so I can only hypothetically disagree with you . Hypothetically of course .

Most players left, but the best remain. Sounds totally legit.

I play for fun

I do not doubt it. I've never once thought of you to be at all elitist

Satiar

zyk wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

ZoS did not get any sort of control over cheat engine until a year ago . I would say we currently have a better idea of who the best players are now then 2 years ago . A lot of people thought to be the best and honest players turned out not to be . There are still some questions if people can use CE and even more exploits in question . This makes determining who is best difficult .

What makes you think ZOS has any sort of control over cheat engine? What happened a year ago is some players delivered undeniable proof memory hacking was a reality in ESO. ZOS promptly swept the issue under the rug. Memory hacking is still trivial in ESO. There is no evidence of the robust protection necessary to mitigate memory hacking. If ZOS did have a handle on memory hacking, it would likely publicize its success as that is a nice selling point. It's not like cheating is limited only to memory hacking either. The few that are banned for it were likely reckless about it.

ESO was heavily hyped and campaigns were packed in 2014. A lot of gamers and guilds came here to make a name for themselves in what could have been a blockbuster game. By 2015, it was apparent most were gone already.

The numbers below have been pulled out of my ass but are accurate enough to illustrate my point.

Let's say 5% of players are "good", that 500,000 PVP players (vs pve players getting achievements, testing waters, etc) have been active in Cyrodiil on PC/NA, and that a community of 10,000 active players remains.

5% of all time = 25,000
5% of current = 500

Even if I'm way off, it's safe to assume most "good" gamers who have played ESO left long ago. It's not like only the bad players quit and the best remained. If anything, it's the opposite as good players tend to be more intelligent and likely saw the writing on the wall.

I'm not trying to crap all over anyone, but the reality of the situation speaks for itself. So be humble and have fun without letting success get to your head like a beer league prima donna.

I'm curious who you view as the the standout players that left the game: I can think of a ton of good players who don't play anymore, but also a ton who still play at a high level and a further bunch of Big Names that cane back and weren't that good without their pre-nerf DK.

Drdeath20

Meh. So team up with git guds and use every glitch against potatoes = skill.

Stop posting potatoe slicing videos noob and start posting guild vs guild videos

Drdeath20

Weak and thirsty all rolled up in one thread.

zyk

Satiar wrote: »

I'm curious who you view as the the standout players that left the game: I can think of a ton of good players who don't play anymore, but also a ton who still play at a high level and a further bunch of Big Names that cane back and weren't that good without their pre-nerf DK.

I think the factor being missed here is that ESO PVP attracted a large audience and lost most of it. So if you think that the majority of the good gamers to ever play ESO still play, you must also assume most of those who left were representative of the worst gamers. I do not think that is realistic.

That's not to say if a top gamer who played ESO in 2014 was to return today after 2+ years away, he/she would wipe the floor with everyone right away. But if that player was to take the time to learn the game, they'd definitely have no problems doing well.

Again, I'm not saying all of the remaining players suck. But if most players have left ESO PVP, it stands to reason that most good gamers have left too. IMO, ESO PVP is a commercial failure. If you disagree with that, then that is a different argument entirely.

Further, most of the people who I personally know who were pretty awesome in 2014 are super casual now. The feeling I get from my POV is that few truly care anymore and are just looking to have fun with friends. This seems to be true of a lot of guilds. Is your experience with VE not at all similar?

Publius_Scipio

Angry Joe is the best ESO player ever.

Satiar

zyk wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

I'm curious who you view as the the standout players that left the game: I can think of a ton of good players who don't play anymore, but also a ton who still play at a high level and a further bunch of Big Names that cane back and weren't that good without their pre-nerf DK.

I think the factor being missed here is that ESO PVP attracted a large audience and lost most of it. So if you think that the majority of the good gamers to ever play ESO still play, you must also assume most of those who left were representative of the worst gamers. I do not think that is realistic.

That's not to say if a top gamer who played ESO in 2014 was to return today after 2+ years away, he/she would wipe the floor with everyone right away. But if that player was to take the time to learn the game, they'd definitely have no problems doing well.

Again, I'm not saying all of the remaining players suck. But if most players have left ESO PVP, it stands to reason that most good gamers have left too. IMO, ESO PVP is a commercial failure. If you disagree with that, then that is a different argument entirely.

Further, most of the people who I personally know who were pretty awesome in 2014 are super casual now. The feeling I get from my POV is that few truly care anymore and are just looking to have fun with friends. This seems to be true of a lot of guilds. Is your experience with VE not at all similar?

Oh ESO was totally a failure from a pvp perspective. But I don't buy into the argument that there was this big community of high end players that left, leaving all the bads and casuals to roll about in the dirt. The closest thing I can think of to what you're describing would be the Mostly Harmless group who won the original 4v4v4s....but then I fought against those guys all the time back when, and even ended up with some of them in VE when we went to DC.

This is why I'm asking who you're thinking of. I played with the best EP guilds against the best DC/AD guilds since way back, got involved in dueling, 4v4s, etc. Who are we lamenting the loss of here? Entropy Rising? TYSM? No Mercy? Good duellists?

And to your last paragraph, I think we've always had a good balance. Most of us still play for the friendships and companionships but none of us like losing. It's been a continually fun challenge to keep the guild evolving and focused on winning, and it's probably a big reason why we're still operating as we are. It's been frustrating to see many of our old opponents present but casual, and even more frustrating to have the same players bemoan the lack of competition, seemingly unaware that they're part of the problem.

To take it one step further, what MMO PvP community are you comparing this one to? FF14? WoW? EVE? Or are you comparing it to other modes like FPS, RTS, MOBAs?

zyk

Satiar wrote: »

Oh ESO was totally a failure from a pvp perspective. But I don't buy into the argument that there was this big community of high end players that left, leaving all the bads and casuals to roll about in the dirt. The closest thing I can think of to what you're describing would be the Mostly Harmless group who won the original 4v4v4s....but then I fought against those guys all the time back when, and even ended up with some of them in VE when we went to DC.

That is not what I am saying at all. I believe I've clarified that a few times.

It's impossible to compare individuals on such a scale. I am looking at it at a high level. If ESO has lost most PVP players and the remaining players and departed players are "good" and "bad" at similar rates, then it is most likely most good gamers to ever play ESO PVP aren't presently active. They moved on to better games before you could get to know them because ESO was so broken in so many ways in 2014.

If ESO Battlegrounds is a huge success and the game attracts a LoL-like following, how do you think that would change the competitive dynamics? Would the current top 100 players, whoever they may be, remain in the top 100? I think that is unlikely. They would probably be displaced as more comeptitive gamers were attracted to ESO.

The point is that this isn't a very competitive game, but there are players who act like it is. They're basically beer league prima donnas.

A beer league prima donna is someone who tries super hard in a very casual sports league and acts as if he's Michael Jordan.

Rohamad_Ali

zyk wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

You used hypothetical math so I can only hypothetically disagree with you . Hypothetically of course .

Most players left, but the best remain. Sounds totally legit.

I play for fun

I do not doubt it. I've never once thought of you to be at all elitist

I logged in today and some of the best players I've ever met were playing today . Depends on your definition of the best . Some are best raid leaders , some are best small scale players and all have been here since beta and won Emp and campaigns since launch . Maybe you have a different definition of best , I don't know .

Satiar

zyk wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Oh ESO was totally a failure from a pvp perspective. But I don't buy into the argument that there was this big community of high end players that left, leaving all the bads and casuals to roll about in the dirt. The closest thing I can think of to what you're describing would be the Mostly Harmless group who won the original 4v4v4s....but then I fought against those guys all the time back when, and even ended up with some of them in VE when we went to DC.

That is not what I am saying at all. I believe I've clarified that a few times.

It's impossible to compare individuals on such a scale. I am looking at it at a high level. If ESO has lost most PVP players and the remaining players and departed players are "good" and "bad" at similar rates, then it is most likely most good gamers to ever play ESO PVP aren't presently active. They moved on to better games before you could get to know them because ESO was so broken in so many ways in 2014.

The point is that this isn't a very competitive game, but there are players who act like it is. They're basically beer league prima donnas.

A beer league prima donna is someone who tries super hard in a very casual sports league and acts as if he's Michael Jordan.

I suppose. It's a tough line to walk. I used to play junior hockey. It's not AAA or the AHL or the NHL but it was extremely important to me to excel in the league I was in. I didn't take less pride in my victories because of where I played or feel better about the losses just because it wasn't the NHL. How I'm interpreting your comments, I might as well not care about competition about any MMO in general because they're not played on the same stage as Comp Overwatch or pro MOBA teams, and I'm not sure I agree. Though, considering the people who started this thread, this won't be the hill I die on!

zyk

Satiar wrote: »

I suppose. It's a tough line to walk. I used to play junior hockey. It's not AAA or the AHL or the NHL but it was extremely important to me to excel in the league I was in. I didn't take less pride in my victories because of where I played or feel better about the losses just because it wasn't the NHL. How I'm interpreting your comments, I might as well not care about competition about any MMO in general because they're not played on the same stage as Comp Overwatch or pro MOBA teams, and I'm not sure I agree. Though, considering the people who started this thread, this won't be the hill I die on!

And I'm not saying you should have. But neither should you have felt or acted like Sidney Crosby.

Satiar

zyk wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

I suppose. It's a tough line to walk. I used to play junior hockey. It's not AAA or the AHL or the NHL but it was extremely important to me to excel in the league I was in. I didn't take less pride in my victories because of where I played or feel better about the losses just because it wasn't the NHL. How I'm interpreting your comments, I might as well not care about competition about any MMO in general because they're not played on the same stage as Comp Overwatch or pro MOBA teams, and I'm not sure I agree. Though, considering the people who started this thread, this won't be the hill I die on!

And I'm not saying you should have. But neither should you have felt or acted like Sidney Crosby.

If we're being honest, people don't even like Sidney Crosby acting like Sidney Crosby

Asgari

#FAKENEWS

Everyone knows Asgari is best NA

zyk

Satiar wrote: »

If we're being honest, people don't even like Sidney Crosby acting like Sidney Crosby

To which Sid says, “I can’t really hear what Satiar says, because I got my two Stanley Cup rings plugged in my ears.”

That you played junior hockey is *extremely impressive*. Just like I think a lot of current ESO players are extremely impressive. I'd just like to see the toxic dime a dozen 1vx wannabes show some humility. I'm probably not talking about anyone you play with. It may not seem like it, but I have always respected -- and loved to hate on(!) -- VE.

And for the record, I know I am a plebpotatotard. Especially now. I am certainly not looking down on the ability of any other players.

Satiar

zyk wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

If we're being honest, people don't even like Sidney Crosby acting like Sidney Crosby

To which Sid says, “I can’t really hear what Satiar says, because I got my two Stanley Cup rings plugged in my ears.”

That you played junior hockey is *extremely impressive*. Just like I think a lot of current ESO players are extremely impressive. I'd just like to see the toxic dime a dozen 1vx wannabes show some humility. I'm probably not talking about anyone you play with. It may not seem like it, but I have always respected -- and loved to hate on(!) -- VE.

And for the record, I know I am a plebpotatotard. Especially now. I am certainly not looking down on the ability of any other players.

Fear thou not, I didn't think you were talking about me or mine. It's just always a contentious and intereating subject given the state of the game. So much of it is a state of mind. I wish we had more players and guilds who think they're the best and want to prove it! its just been hammered in so many times by the elite community that "this game is trash, nothing matters" that at a certain point I wonder if it's a self fulfilling prophecy.

Ron_Burgundy_79

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

#FAKENEWS

Everyone knows Asgari is best NA

Who?

Subversus

zyk wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

I'm curious who you view as the the standout players that left the game: I can think of a ton of good players who don't play anymore, but also a ton who still play at a high level and a further bunch of Big Names that cane back and weren't that good without their pre-nerf DK.

I think the factor being missed here is that ESO PVP attracted a large audience and lost most of it. So if you think that the majority of the good gamers to ever play ESO still play, you must also assume most of those who left were representative of the worst gamers. I do not think that is realistic.

That's not to say if a top gamer who played ESO in 2014 was to return today after 2+ years away, he/she would wipe the floor with everyone right away. But if that player was to take the time to learn the game, they'd definitely have no problems doing well.

Again, I'm not saying all of the remaining players suck. But if most players have left ESO PVP, it stands to reason that most good gamers have left too. IMO, ESO PVP is a commercial failure. If you disagree with that, then that is a different argument entirely.

Further, most of the people who I personally know who were pretty awesome in 2014 are super casual now. The feeling I get from my POV is that few truly care anymore and are just looking to have fun with friends. This seems to be true of a lot of guilds. Is your experience with VE not at all similar?

You are basically openly denying the presence of any kind of intellectual improvement in today's players.

Let me put it down to you to show how absurd you sound:
> all the good players reached the absolute peak of ESO skill 2 years ago
> 2 years later, we as human beings still haven't improved and are still lesser to the good players that played 2 years ago.

I do agree that the players that quit might have been good at the game, and as you stated in your comments they would have a very easy time reaching the top again having started playing again. However we know much more about the game now than we knew 2 years ago. If you can not accept that the current top tier players would wipe the floor with the top tier players that PLAYED 2 years ago, then you're obviously biased.

It's like saying yeah Arnold was great, he was the peak of BB 20 years ago. Phil Heath and Ronnie Coleman are nothing compared to him, even though they're actually arguably better. The norms and judging criteria have changed, just like ESO meta changes.

I played since beta, though most definitely not at the same level I play at today, but even I can confirm that the game has changed completely.

Oh and let's not use 1vX as a meter for skill, we all know it's only possible when not a single skilled player is present in the X portion

zyk

Subversus wrote: »

You are basically openly denying the presence of any kind of intellectual improvement in today's players.

Nope.

Let me put it down to you to show how absurd you sound:
> all the good players reached the absolute peak of ESO skill 2 years ago
> 2 years later, we as human beings still haven't improved and are still lesser to the good players that played 2 years ago.

Nope. I'm talking about overall gaming aptitude, not the ever-evolving metagames of ESO PVP.

I have a perspective on this myself. I have a love/hate relationship with ESO PVP and often take long breaks. Returning is always painful for me. I have go through 4-5 good play sessions within a week just start to feel comfortable again. I've been trying to get back into PVP again recently, and it's been rough! It's a good thing I don't mind dying. So yeah, there's definitely a learning curve and I respect how difficult it can be.

I think I made my point, but it's a stupid thing to argue. I was in a bad mood and went off on a rant. I apologize. Let's just agree Passifest and his friends are the best players NA and move on.

Zinaroth

souravami wrote: »

Best players. NA.
Choose one

Lore_lai

Zinaroth wrote: »

souravami wrote: »

Best players. NA.
Choose one

Oh puhlease. Not this again.
EU - Best Outpost flipping Olympics?

Passifest

zyk wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

You are basically openly denying the presence of any kind of intellectual improvement in today's players.

Nope.

Let me put it down to you to show how absurd you sound:
> all the good players reached the absolute peak of ESO skill 2 years ago
> 2 years later, we as human beings still haven't improved and are still lesser to the good players that played 2 years ago.

I think I made my point, but it's a stupid thing to argue. I'm was in a bad mood and went off on a rant. I apologize. Let's just agree Passifest and his friends are the best players NA and move on.

I think that is something we can all agree on.

lordhakai

Passifest wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=844M_8RYMxo&feature=youtu.be

Here we have the best players on Azura's Star(and possibly the game because no cp crutch) in a showcase of true skill. It wasn't easy to get to where we are now. Months, even years, of hard work have led us to be the best of the best. I am happy to now give back to the community with this showcase. Thank you and enjoy.

I was thinking cool. Then i saw that you were a blueberry and i was like damn really. But nice job good video and tactics.

NightbladeMechanics

Satiar wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

Lore_lai wrote: »

But that's not how you're making it sound.
You're making it sound (at least from how I perceive it) like - everyone who was good is gone and now everyone who's left is a baddie or just a casual player.
If that wasn't your intention then apologies, but surely you can see that it can comes off as that.
And that simply is not true and it just makes you sound bitter and nostalgic.
EDIT: I'm referring to your first comment BTW.

I was speaking to certain cliques who act and talk as if they're pro gamers. It seems some allow success here to turn them into monsters when the reality is they may be damn good gamers and among the best here, but would be nowhere close to the top in a popular game.

What's worse are the middling players who have emerged idolizing them and now emulate. These guys need to try to break into a truly competitive scene to see how good they really are.

Someone can be an AMAZING basketball player with skills would make your jaw drop without being anywhere close to an NBA level. In ESO, we have no NBA, but we have players who speak as if they are of the caliber Lebron James -- while acting like Dennis Rodman on bath salts.

some players thinking they're the Michael Jordan of computer games because they can destro bomb

OMG I'm dying

Zinaroth

Lore_lai wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

souravami wrote: »

Best players. NA.
Choose one

Oh puhlease. Not this again.
EU - Best Outpost flipping Olympics?

I am sorry I didn't know this was a serious debate thread...

EU has an active community that actually can get together for things - better trial guilds, more active PvP guilds and more dueling tournaments. The only reason this didn't happen on NA wasn't because of superior ethics - you simply couldn't gather enough people who could get along to make it happen; as evident by the multitude of people tuning into EU streams on that week in dismay over this not happening on NA.

Feel free to come over and take part in our awesome community - we accept all people.

Here you will find no walls or orange demagogues with floating hair trying to make things great again.

EU is already the greatest it can be.

Lore_lai

Zinaroth wrote: »

I am sorry I didn't know this was a serious debate thread...

EU has an active community that actually can get together for things - better trial guilds, more active PvP guilds and more dueling tournaments. The only reason this didn't happen on NA wasn't because of superior ethics - you simply couldn't gather enough people who could get along to make it happen; as evident by the multitude of people tuning into EU streams on that week in dismay over this not happening on NA.

Feel free to come over and take part in our awesome community - we accept all people.

Here you will find no walls or orange demagogues with floating hair trying to make things great again.

EU is already the greatest it can be.

Wow - great speech! Gotta give you that!
And of course this is serious, what - you think this is a GAEM?!
TY tho! But I will stick to NA - here we prefer to keep our ERP in PvE (this is why we suck at that honestly, it gets too steamy)

Firerock2

Zinaroth wrote: »

Lore_lai wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

souravami wrote: »

Best players. NA.
Choose one

Oh puhlease. Not this again.
EU - Best Outpost flipping Olympics?

I am sorry I didn't know this was a serious debate thread...

EU has an active community that actually can get together for things - better trial guilds, more active PvP guilds and more dueling tournaments. The only reason this didn't happen on NA wasn't because of superior ethics - you simply couldn't gather enough people who could get along to make it happen; as evident by the multitude of people tuning into EU streams on that week in dismay over this not happening on NA.

Feel free to come over and take part in our awesome community - we accept all people.

Here you will find no walls or orange demagogues with floating hair trying to make things great again.

EU is already the greatest it can be.

Totally made up facts by the disreputable EU players-SAD!
NA has the best players and tremendous support, Believe me. It has the B-Team.

Zinaroth

Lore_lai wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

I am sorry I didn't know this was a serious debate thread...

EU has an active community that actually can get together for things - better trial guilds, more active PvP guilds and more dueling tournaments. The only reason this didn't happen on NA wasn't because of superior ethics - you simply couldn't gather enough people who could get along to make it happen; as evident by the multitude of people tuning into EU streams on that week in dismay over this not happening on NA.

Feel free to come over and take part in our awesome community - we accept all people.

Here you will find no walls or orange demagogues with floating hair trying to make things great again.

EU is already the greatest it can be.

Wow - great speech! Gotta give you that!
And of course this is serious, what - you think this is a GAEM?!
TY tho! But I will stick to NA - here we prefer to keep our ERP in PvE (this is why we suck at that honestly, it gets too steamy)

I wish someone would get steamy with me... Feelsbadman

Firerock2 wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

Lore_lai wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

souravami wrote: »

Best players. NA.
Choose one

Oh puhlease. Not this again.
EU - Best Outpost flipping Olympics?

I am sorry I didn't know this was a serious debate thread...

EU has an active community that actually can get together for things - better trial guilds, more active PvP guilds and more dueling tournaments. The only reason this didn't happen on NA wasn't because of superior ethics - you simply couldn't gather enough people who could get along to make it happen; as evident by the multitude of people tuning into EU streams on that week in dismay over this not happening on NA.

Feel free to come over and take part in our awesome community - we accept all people.

Here you will find no walls or orange demagogues with floating hair trying to make things great again.

EU is already the greatest it can be.

Totally made up facts by the disreputable EU players-SAD!
NA has the best players and tremendous support, Believe me. It has the B-Team.

And Team America: World Police starring Matt Daaamon!

Lore_lai

Zinaroth wrote: »

I wish someone would get steamy with me... Feelsbadman

Come to NA, we accept all people! I'm sure you too can find a friendly, loving ERP community! We don't even care if your DPS sucks as long as you DPS with *STYLE*!
BTW - I'm from EU playing on NA so I get the best of both worlds?
Did I win yet?