Blue Betty.....

Nelson_Rebel

Jawasa wrote: »

@Nelson_Rebel How can you claim that a Chanel cast time is the same as instant skills? Have you ever pvped? Having a channled cast time is a huge dissadvantage.

The only strong thing i can see with this skill is using it with necropotence like mageblade and shadow image atm.

I'm not saying they are exactly the same, I'm saying that using the cast time as an excuse for having the skill be a free costing Pet that counts towards Necropotence sets and is un targetable and gives multiple Bonuses from a single free cast is BS lazy excuse to make it free and blatantly favors the warden for resource management especially considering them nerfing everyone's resource management makes it even worse.

idk

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

I'm concerned about the pvp ramifications of having an ultimate with no cost and spammable skills with no cost

Regardless of how powerful they are or aren't they are still free costing skills.

The bear even respawns as NO cost when it dies, does not cost ultimate and has powerful agro capabilty far stronger than previous AI pets.

The netch is a free skill that gives resources, while not significant from the video, we also did not see how it will scale with max magic, spell damage, other sets like necropotence. It even gives a cleanse which will be FREE. And recastable whenever you want.

Having those combined with the free heal that is in the passives for whenever an animal companion is used it creates a virtually 100% self sufficient class that has free costing abilities that can't be targeted to kill (netch) and free ultimates that respawn (bear)

From a pvp standpoint this is a serious issue

it really is not,


the heal is nothing, like 600, the SINGLE debuff removal is almost nothing. come on, stop overblowing this.

ADarklore wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

I'm concerned about the pvp ramifications of having an ultimate with no cost and spammable skills with no cost

Regardless of how powerful they are or aren't they are still free costing skills.

The bear even respawns as NO cost when it dies, does not cost ultimate and has powerful agro capabilty far stronger than previous AI pets.

The netch is a free skill that gives resources, while not significant from the video, we also did not see how it will scale with max magic, spell damage, other sets like necropotence. It even gives a cleanse which will be FREE. And recastable whenever you want.

Having those combined with the free heal that is in the passives for whenever an animal companion is used it creates a virtually 100% self sufficient class that has free costing abilities that can't be targeted to kill (netch) and free ultimates that respawn (bear)

From a pvp standpoint this is a serious issue

Recastable with a CHANNEL TIME... it's not instant.

You have no evidence to back up how strong that heal will be with live sets skills and abilities for maxed players, that heal wil be significantly stronger with actual skill sets and abilities. That test was a BASE class warden with no sets or actual passives from other lines or CP


That is not overblowing anything, that is a legitimate concern when no other class has free casting skills for that cleanse AND give major sorcery and major savagery


That channel time has no relevance to my point that it's free, spammable with cast time is a stupid argument. Every skill has a cast time So my argument stands

Repentance is a free heal. It gives you 10% more Regen just for having it sloted. The warden skill you are talking about is less Regen then channel focus and it only give major sorcery OR brutality not both..

Channel focus does not give major sorcery or brutality. It gives armor buff and major healing buff. But yes, more regen but probably about the same after the cost for focus is taken into consideration. Though I agree this Warden skill is not OP. Unsure where Lyserus got the idea.

Ackwalan wrote: »

Lyserus wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Where do you find that this skill has no cost? If it is that the Magika regen is higher, or probably higher, than the cost it does not mean it is free. The magika regen is no different than the Templars Channeling Rune. The other affects are merely different.

Further, the cleans from the skill is a single cleans. I have not found information that the cleans affects multiple targets.

The BoL is one of the two main reasons to use a Templar. The shard is the second. I do not see anything in the class that compares. Warden will make a good healer to work with a Templar, but I do not think having two Wardens healing the group would be ideal.

it has no cost at all, if u watched the ESO live you will know

Also spammable, in live it can be cast without the previous one vanish.

So, combine with animation cancellation, no debuffs for warden

During ESO live, they had resources turn off, to keep things moving without having to worry about resource management. It is a spammable ability, but it is not free from cost.

The only cost of this Warden ability is time. As pointed out, Devs specifically said they chose to remove the cost from this skill and reduced the regen to compensate.

ADarklore

Do people even know what 'spammable' means? It means casting rapidly over and over and over again, which cannot be done with 'channeled' skills because there is a required cast time. I may be wrong, but I also do not believe that channeled casts are able to be 'animation canceled'.

Jawasa

@ADarklore you are correct channels cant be canceled.

Vaoh

Wrobel can do whatever he wants.

Even when he's accomplished the impossible and created a nearly balanced class at launch to integrate with the four we already have, people will cry OP before putting thought or perspective into anything.

The only skill that is worrisome and could cause issues right now is Sleet Storm, due to the ability to walk around with a Major Protection buff on self which also stacks with Remembrance. Besides this Wardens are looking very well balanced.

This free purge is of a single debuff, and it may even have a cast time. Are you telling me that you are going to start spamming this while one enemy applies 2-3 debuffs to you per second plus tons of burst damage and CCs? What a Templar can accomplish with one cast, you take 5 casts to get even less benefit. It's not even remotely OP.

Useful in select situations? Yes.
Overpowered? Not even close.

Please look at the class in perspective compared to what we already have. You'll find the Warden to be a lot weaker than the crowd yelling "new class must be OP" want to believe.

paulsimonps

Vaoh wrote: »

Wrobel can do whatever he wants.

Even when he's accomplished the impossible and created a nearly balanced class at launch to integrate with the four we already have, people will cry OP before putting thought or perspective into anything.

The only skill that is worrisome and could cause issues right now is Sleet Storm, due to the ability to walk around with a Major Protection buff on self which also stacks with Remembrance. Besides this Wardens are looking very well balanced.

This free purge is of a single debuff, and it may even have a cast time. Are you telling me that you are going to start spamming this while one enemy applies 2-3 debuffs to you per second plus tons of burst damage and CCs? What a Templar can accomplish with one cast, you take 5 casts to get even less benefit. It's not even remotely OP.

Useful in select situations? Yes.
Overpowered? Not even close.

Please look at the class in perspective compared to what we already have. You'll find the Warden to be a lot weaker than the crowd yelling "new class must be OP" want to believe.

During the playtesting making remembrance be a major protection as well was something a lot of us gave as feedback cause remembrance with sleetstorm was OP as hell. We will be seeing a lot of changes for other classes and weapon skills with Morrowind when it hits PTS that we the playtesters didn't get to see either, so lets hope they make a change there cause I really do think it is needed.

Vaoh

paulsimonps wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Wrobel can do whatever he wants.

Even when he's accomplished the impossible and created a nearly balanced class at launch to integrate with the four we already have, people will cry OP before putting thought or perspective into anything.

The only skill that is worrisome and could cause issues right now is Sleet Storm, due to the ability to walk around with a Major Protection buff on self which also stacks with Remembrance. Besides this Wardens are looking very well balanced.

This free purge is of a single debuff, and it may even have a cast time. Are you telling me that you are going to start spamming this while one enemy applies 2-3 debuffs to you per second plus tons of burst damage and CCs? What a Templar can accomplish with one cast, you take 5 casts to get even less benefit. It's not even remotely OP.

Useful in select situations? Yes.
Overpowered? Not even close.

Please look at the class in perspective compared to what we already have. You'll find the Warden to be a lot weaker than the crowd yelling "new class must be OP" want to believe.

During the playtesting making remembrance be a major protection as well was something a lot of us gave as feedback cause remembrance with sleetstorm was OP as hell. We will be seeing a lot of changes for other classes and weapon skills with Morrowind when it hits PTS that we the playtesters didn't get to see either, so lets hope they make a change there cause I really do think it is needed.

Yep! If it was up to me, they would both grant Major Protection. Just seems like the easiest route at least for now. As long as Sleet Storm and Remembrance are changed in some way to stop them from stacking things should turn out rather well.

On top of this, it *might* be worth considering a reduction in damage mitigation from 30% to 25% (like what was done to Major Mending) since it will become a more common buff due to Sleet Storm being a legitimately strong ultimate. Still great, but not as strong.

paulsimonps

Vaoh wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Wrobel can do whatever he wants.

Even when he's accomplished the impossible and created a nearly balanced class at launch to integrate with the four we already have, people will cry OP before putting thought or perspective into anything.

The only skill that is worrisome and could cause issues right now is Sleet Storm, due to the ability to walk around with a Major Protection buff on self which also stacks with Remembrance. Besides this Wardens are looking very well balanced.

This free purge is of a single debuff, and it may even have a cast time. Are you telling me that you are going to start spamming this while one enemy applies 2-3 debuffs to you per second plus tons of burst damage and CCs? What a Templar can accomplish with one cast, you take 5 casts to get even less benefit. It's not even remotely OP.

Useful in select situations? Yes.
Overpowered? Not even close.

Please look at the class in perspective compared to what we already have. You'll find the Warden to be a lot weaker than the crowd yelling "new class must be OP" want to believe.

During the playtesting making remembrance be a major protection as well was something a lot of us gave as feedback cause remembrance with sleetstorm was OP as hell. We will be seeing a lot of changes for other classes and weapon skills with Morrowind when it hits PTS that we the playtesters didn't get to see either, so lets hope they make a change there cause I really do think it is needed.

Yep! If it was up to me, they would both grant Major Protection. Just seems like the easiest route at least for now. As long as Sleet Storm and Remembrance are changed in some way to stop them from stacking things should turn out rather well.

On top of this, it *might* be worth considering a reduction in damage mitigation from 30% to 25% (like what was done to Major Mending) since it will become a more common buff due to Sleet Storm being a legitimately strong ultimate. Still great, but not as strong.

I could see that but if you do that I think it would also only be fair to reduce Major Maim form 30% to 25%. But lets see, Major Maim will now have 2 sources, Nova and The one morph of Wardens Frozen Device. Major Protection has Veil of Blades, Light's Champion, Pirate Skeleton, and then now Sleetstorm and hopefully remembrance too. So idk its not that many sources of it. Not sure a nerf would be necessary. All of them except Pirate skeleton would be a ultimate on Major Protection and Major Maim has one ultimate and one trap pull that only works on targets that are not CC immune.

Izaki

I'm just scratching my head at the fact that the stamina morphs have no additional effects AT ALL. Why? Do you think that converting a skill's scaling is enough to call it a morph? Nah.

Zinaroth

Many instant cast abilities apply more than a single debuff.
The Blue Betty is not very action effecient in only cleansing a single debuff, plus the regeneration is not that good.

It's a decent ability but that's it; especially after they made it untargetable by others player - which was one of the most useful things about it in open world PvP alongside the Major spell/weapon damage.

Zinaroth

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

I'm just scratching my head at the fact that the stamina morphs have no additional effects AT ALL. Why? Do you think that converting a skill's scaling is enough to call it a morph? Nah.

@IzakiBrotherSs the stamina morph restores more stamina than the magicka morph restores magicka. It's a marginal difference but it's there.

SodanTok

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

I'm just scratching my head at the fact that the stamina morphs have no additional effects AT ALL. Why? Do you think that converting a skill's scaling is enough to call it a morph? Nah.

TBH (related to skill Dive) the way ZoS treats ranged stamina, making ranged stamina skill was probably already very taxing on their consciousness, I am surprised they let it have same range like magicka got, that must have been very painful choice

STEVIL

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

I'm just scratching my head at the fact that the stamina morphs have no additional effects AT ALL. Why? Do you think that converting a skill's scaling is enough to call it a morph? Nah.

ahem... dark deal is one of the oft cry Op skills and that is exactly what it did.

just sayin'

Izaki

I'm just scratching my head at the fact that the stamina morphs have no additional effects AT ALL. Why? Do you think that converting a skill's scaling is enough to call it a morph? Nah.

STEVIL wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

I'm just scratching my head at the fact that the stamina morphs have no additional effects AT ALL. Why? Do you think that converting a skill's scaling is enough to call it a morph? Nah.

ahem... dark deal is one of the oft cry Op skills and that is exactly what it did.

just sayin'

Hmmm yeah, how does that relate to the warden though?

STEVIL

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

I'm just scratching my head at the fact that the stamina morphs have no additional effects AT ALL. Why? Do you think that converting a skill's scaling is enough to call it a morph? Nah.

STEVIL wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

I'm just scratching my head at the fact that the stamina morphs have no additional effects AT ALL. Why? Do you think that converting a skill's scaling is enough to call it a morph? Nah.

ahem... dark deal is one of the oft cry Op skills and that is exactly what it did.

just sayin'

Hmmm yeah, how does that relate to the warden though?

It shows that for some other morphs in game the idea of just switching from mag based to Stan is established and not in a underpowered omg sort of way.

Wardens and their skills do not exist in a vacuum so its would seem many folks might consider other established skills as relevant to discussions about warden skills.

Of course, if warden was to never be played in instances with other classes,it would make sense to not compare it to other class skills.

Do you believe that is to be the case and that's why mentioning other skills is such a conundrum for you?

Nerouyn

ADarklore wrote: »

From what I saw, granted Carrie was only running Animal abilities, but did anyone else notice how many times her health bar was almost at ZERO in basic open-world fights? I'm not sure what type of gear she was running, but I was not impressed with what I saw... hopefully it was just a 'test server' thing.

She stated that she had a no-die cheat turned on for that demo.