Selfish tank or selfless (supportive)tank

raj72616a

Selfish tank that does nothing for group besides taunt, debuff and stay alive(min maxer maybe)

if it's a vet trial with great players, sure alkosh warhorn and whatever they need.

but for those of us who PUG, a good raid tank simply doesnt work that well.
another thread is crying abt the lack of tank for PUG and apparently people don't know what it's like for PUG tanks.

Floki_Vilgerdarson

Oompuh wrote: »

Stratti wrote: »

Stupid poll. Do you want a tank that ensure aggro and lives or one that dies .

Dps can buff themselves. Tanks are meant to survive

Oompuh wrote: »

Stratti wrote: »

Stupid poll. Do you want a tank that ensure aggro and lives or one that dies .

Dps can buff themselves. Tanks are meant to survive

You assume a supportive tank is a dead tank? A supportive tank (warden, ebon, alkosh) has max resistance, 30k+health, and heavy armor with a shield.. you shouldn't be dieing.

Losing ebon, a dps has to put more into health, dps loss. Losing alkosh, stamina has to run it or lost it entirely, dps loss. Losing warden, melee stack is more prone to dieing, dps loss. Not throwing orbs, dps have to stack more resource management, dps loss. No war horn rotation, dps loss. And on and on and on.

Problem here is your running numbers in your head instead of reality. The amount of *** groups ive tanked forvin hm vet where they died multiple times and slow burned while my selfish whitestrake kept me alive - is countless. Truly countless

1 in 5 runs i get a pro group whose that on point where I barely use resources to tank. Here is will buff but honestly the dps is that op it is for nought.

A good tank sets up for the 4 out of 5 runs in finder where the dps are shocking and your often alone on boss with 1 guy rezzing 2 baddies. Keeping yourself up.

Min/max is for dps not tanking because we are situational and in this game the quality of dps is broad of range

The DPS I run with pull 50k+ with the help of a thing we call "raid buffs". Alkosh, war horn, spc, aether, etc. 5 out of 5 runs are with my guild who are end game dps. You should try it sometime instead of picking up randoms

Your reasoning for running a less effective setup is because you play with less effective players

Wow! I wish I could be you!

Nifty2g

Supportive tank(ebon armory ofcourse, war horn, and buffs group)

Oompuh wrote: »

Stratti wrote: »

Stupid poll. Do you want a tank that ensure aggro and lives or one that dies .

Dps can buff themselves. Tanks are meant to survive

Oompuh wrote: »

Stratti wrote: »

Stupid poll. Do you want a tank that ensure aggro and lives or one that dies .

Dps can buff themselves. Tanks are meant to survive

You assume a supportive tank is a dead tank? A supportive tank (warden, ebon, alkosh) has max resistance, 30k+health, and heavy armor with a shield.. you shouldn't be dieing.

Losing ebon, a dps has to put more into health, dps loss. Losing alkosh, stamina has to run it or lost it entirely, dps loss. Losing warden, melee stack is more prone to dieing, dps loss. Not throwing orbs, dps have to stack more resource management, dps loss. No war horn rotation, dps loss. And on and on and on.

Problem here is your running numbers in your head instead of reality. The amount of *** groups ive tanked forvin hm vet where they died multiple times and slow burned while my selfish whitestrake kept me alive - is countless. Truly countless

1 in 5 runs i get a pro group whose that on point where I barely use resources to tank. Here is will buff but honestly the dps is that op it is for nought.

A good tank sets up for the 4 out of 5 runs in finder where the dps are shocking and your often alone on boss with 1 guy rezzing 2 baddies. Keeping yourself up.

Min/max is for dps not tanking because we are situational and in this game the quality of dps is broad of range

The DPS I run with pull 50k+ with the help of a thing we call "raid buffs". Alkosh, war horn, spc, aether, etc. 5 out of 5 runs are with my guild who are end game dps. You should try it sometime instead of picking up randoms

Your reasoning for running a less effective setup is because you play with less effective players

But you are xbox NA, you dont get to raid or have dps meters

Mettaricana

Selfish tank that does nothing for group besides taunt, debuff and stay alive(min maxer maybe)

I may sound selfish but i dont pvp and not gonna waste my time getting steam rolled til i got warhorn. Ebon maybe but having too much fun doing 5pc plague and 5pc green i do have resto back bar to heal though and i can party heal while i self sustain

O_LYKOS

Is this a question???

Oompuh

Supportive tank(ebon armory ofcourse, war horn, and buffs group)

Nifty2g wrote: »

Oompuh wrote: »

Stratti wrote: »

Stupid poll. Do you want a tank that ensure aggro and lives or one that dies .

Dps can buff themselves. Tanks are meant to survive

Oompuh wrote: »

Stratti wrote: »

Stupid poll. Do you want a tank that ensure aggro and lives or one that dies .

Dps can buff themselves. Tanks are meant to survive

You assume a supportive tank is a dead tank? A supportive tank (warden, ebon, alkosh) has max resistance, 30k+health, and heavy armor with a shield.. you shouldn't be dieing.

Losing ebon, a dps has to put more into health, dps loss. Losing alkosh, stamina has to run it or lost it entirely, dps loss. Losing warden, melee stack is more prone to dieing, dps loss. Not throwing orbs, dps have to stack more resource management, dps loss. No war horn rotation, dps loss. And on and on and on.

Problem here is your running numbers in your head instead of reality. The amount of *** groups ive tanked forvin hm vet where they died multiple times and slow burned while my selfish whitestrake kept me alive - is countless. Truly countless

1 in 5 runs i get a pro group whose that on point where I barely use resources to tank. Here is will buff but honestly the dps is that op it is for nought.

A good tank sets up for the 4 out of 5 runs in finder where the dps are shocking and your often alone on boss with 1 guy rezzing 2 baddies. Keeping yourself up.

Min/max is for dps not tanking because we are situational and in this game the quality of dps is broad of range

The DPS I run with pull 50k+ with the help of a thing we call "raid buffs". Alkosh, war horn, spc, aether, etc. 5 out of 5 runs are with my guild who are end game dps. You should try it sometime instead of picking up randoms

Your reasoning for running a less effective setup is because you play with less effective players

But you are xbox NA, you dont get to raid or have dps meters

Damn, he caught me
Well we can do raid buffed target skellies, but that's the closest raid experience we get to have in Homestead

usmcjdking

Selfish tank that does nothing for group besides taunt, debuff and stay alive(min maxer maybe)

Oompuh wrote: »

Stratti wrote: »

Stupid poll. Do you want a tank that ensure aggro and lives or one that dies .

Dps can buff themselves. Tanks are meant to survive

Oompuh wrote: »

Stratti wrote: »

Stupid poll. Do you want a tank that ensure aggro and lives or one that dies .

Dps can buff themselves. Tanks are meant to survive

You assume a supportive tank is a dead tank? A supportive tank (warden, ebon, alkosh) has max resistance, 30k+health, and heavy armor with a shield.. you shouldn't be dieing.

Losing ebon, a dps has to put more into health, dps loss. Losing alkosh, stamina has to run it or lost it entirely, dps loss. Losing warden, melee stack is more prone to dieing, dps loss. Not throwing orbs, dps have to stack more resource management, dps loss. No war horn rotation, dps loss. And on and on and on.

Problem here is your running numbers in your head instead of reality. The amount of *** groups ive tanked forvin hm vet where they died multiple times and slow burned while my selfish whitestrake kept me alive - is countless. Truly countless

1 in 5 runs i get a pro group whose that on point where I barely use resources to tank. Here is will buff but honestly the dps is that op it is for nought.

A good tank sets up for the 4 out of 5 runs in finder where the dps are shocking and your often alone on boss with 1 guy rezzing 2 baddies. Keeping yourself up.

Min/max is for dps not tanking because we are situational and in this game the quality of dps is broad of range

The DPS I run with pull 50k+ with the help of a thing we call "raid buffs". Alkosh, war horn, spc, aether, etc. 5 out of 5 runs are with my guild who are end game dps. You should try it sometime instead of picking up randoms

Your reasoning for running a less effective setup is because you play with less effective players

Running with a PUG is about the only dynamically challenging thing left in PVE.

Drdeath20

Selfish tank that does nothing for group besides taunt, debuff and stay alive(min maxer maybe)

Depends on how good the damage dealers are. Most dds in pugs are terribad. Thus more strain on the tank and healers.

If you get a group Good damage dealers you really dont need a tank at all.

Just burn everything.

Loves_guars

In that line of thought, a dps with a build that demands those 1k HP from Ebon to survive, is very selfish too.

usmcjdking

Selfish tank that does nothing for group besides taunt, debuff and stay alive(min maxer maybe)

If you are a pug runner like me, the selfless tank build is a giant waste of time. 50% of your random vet runs will end in complete failure because no one is actually killing the boss so all the shields and warhorns are going straight into the ether.

If you go into a TRUE PUG without the mentality of "I am going to solo this content" then you aren't pugging correctly or potentially at all.

A proper PUG tank should be able to solo kill any non-trial boss (with the exception of a few) in this game within a reasonable time limit. You aren't doing that in ebon/alkosh.

WalksonGraves

I'm selfishly using gear that helps me perform my role instead of propping up someone else's poorly balanced build. Somehow this prevents me from using warhorn, because otherwise the poll might not be biased.

idk

usmcjdking wrote: »

If you are a pug runner like me, the selfless tank build is a giant waste of time. 50% of your random vet runs will end in complete failure because no one is actually killing the boss so all the shields and warhorns are going straight into the ether.

If you go into a TRUE PUG without the mentality of "I am going to solo this content" then you aren't pugging correctly or potentially at all.

A proper PUG tank should be able to solo kill any non-trial boss (with the exception of a few) in this game within a reasonable time limit. You aren't doing that in ebon/alkosh.

Wow, you have bad luck. I have seen groups to challenged to clear a dungeon though it is a experience that has been rare for me when I use the GF to find a group. On solo bosses I have never had an issue.

Asardes

Supportive tank(ebon armory ofcourse, war horn, and buffs group)

clocksstoppe wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

Bloodspawn & Lord Warden are by far the best sets for a tank. Maybe Scourge Harvester in some situations but really doesn't come close to the former. Mighty Chudan and Pirate Skeleton are plain bad on any serious PvE tank. The latter will make the healer tear his hair out.

Lol get good son. How can pirate skeleton be bad for the healer if you need to heal 30% less health because of it? You have absolutely NO idea what you are talking about.

Pirate Skeleton Set
(1 items) Adds 1935 Physical Resistance
(1 items) Adds 1935 Spell Resistance
(2 items) When you take damage, you have a 6% chance to transform into a skeleton and gain Major Protection and Minor Defile for 12 seconds, reducing your damage taken by 30% but reducing your healing received by 15%. This effect can occur once every 15 seconds.

You can get major protection 30% from Solar Prison (Templar) or Bolstering Darkness/Veil of Blades (NB), and minor protection from 8% from Ring of Preservation (Fighters Guild) which stack. So the positive bonus is not unique. On the other hand the 15% healing debuff is very bad, especially in fights where you take a lot of damage and/or other healing debuffs. Try tanking Velidreth HM with Pirate Skeleton and see how that works out. Or the Warrior at the end of VHRC. However that doesn't mean the set is useless, just it's not useful for PvE tanks. There are probably plenty of PvP builds that use it, most likely in conjunction with vampirism and other sets with similar attributes, like Reactive Armor.

Flameheart

Supportive tank(ebon armory ofcourse, war horn, and buffs group)

I play the support role even in 4-man-instances, because in 80% of all cases I run with guild mates who are able to actually make use of that support.

In PUGs I still play support tank and love to have support healers, because I enjoy it when other people realize how bad their dps is in truth when they have to do the job with just another DD according their role. Then all those so called DDs in heavy armor PvP gear, or DDs who are used to play in groups with 3 DDs and feel great, need to reflect what they are doing. I am very patient to watch those players in their uncomfortable misfortune. I try to not be an ass though, if there are some CP lowbies I try to finish the instance nevertheless even if that means that I need to pull all skeleton adds at the endboss in vet EH 1 and burn them down by Sap Essence/Soul Tether myself and maybe even rez the whole group because of last-man-standing.

If you learn anything in those groups, then how to handle your ressources as a tank.

I often do normal WGT just for the +1 counter to that achievement (...do 100 DLC pledges) and in some groups I enjoy the silence in group chat after I switched to my DD equip at the Planar Inhibitor and posted my Combat Metrix score thereafter.

Asardes

Supportive tank(ebon armory ofcourse, war horn, and buffs group)

Flameheart wrote: »

I play the support role even in 4-man-instances, because in 80% of all cases I run with guild mates who are able to actually make use of that support.

In PUGs I still play support tank and love to have support healers, because I enjoy it when other people realize how bad their dps is in truth when they have to do the job with just another DD according their role. Then all those so called DDs in heavy armor PvP gear, or DDs who are used to play in groups with 3 DDs and feel great, need to reflect what they are doing. I am very patient to watch those players in their uncomfortable misfortune whenevery. I try to not be an ass though, if there are some CP lowbies I try to finish the instance nevertheless even if that means that I need to pull all skeleton adds at the endboss in vet EH 1 and burn them down by Sap Essence/Soul Tether myself and maybe even rez the whole group because of last-man-standing.

If you learn anything in those groups, then how to handle your ressources as a tank.

I often do normal WGT just for the +1 counter to that achievement (...do 100 DLC pledges) and in some groups I enjoy the silence in group chat after I switched to my DD equip at the Planar Inhibitor and posted my Combat Metrix score thereafter.

Well, my Stamina DK, which normally tanks "selflessly" (5 Ebon + 5 Tava's + 5 Bloodspawn) has always had a backup DD gear ever since I started running VWGT almost a year ago - I didn't bother buying IC until I was sure I could handle those dungeons. With just crafted gear (5 Hunding + 4/3 NMG + 3 Agility jewelry), wrong mundus (I run atronach as tank) and usual DK, 2W/Bow skills (I have the healing 2W morphs) and rotation I usually pull ~20-23K at the inhibitor, which is about 1/4 of the group DPS there when running with guild mates. In some cases group DPS is so high she barely reaches the blue phase. I don't really see any other way to have a perfect run unless the tank goes DD there, at least to close the portals fast if not to push the DPS high enough to allow the group to ignore them. I'd really like to see more dungeons which force everyone to change roles.

Merlin13KAGL

How about 'None of the above.'

There are different tanking setups. There are varying encounters.

Does the tank stay alive? Keep aggro off the team? Does stuff die?

If the answer to the above is 'Yes,' then what is the problem?

(Can things be optimized or improved? Probably, in any scenario. Is there only the 'right' way to have a build/skill layout? Unless (and likely even if) you're going for a leaderboard top spot, I'm gonna say "No" here.)

Merlin13KAGL

CultOfMMO wrote: »

I find the passive weapon damage bonus from Flawless Dawnbreaker really helps with that, so no room for warhorn

@CultOfMMO How exactly does > WD help you with aggro?

You either have aggro or you don't? No such thing as 'more aggro!?'

cbaudersub17_ESO

Selfish tank that does nothing for group besides taunt, debuff and stay alive(min maxer maybe)

Proven strategies exist with pre-formed groups. This doesn't necessarily translate to PUG grouping. A variety of very effective tanking builds are out there...for all content.

A good tank is going to adjust if need be. Same goes for any role.

To suggest one general configuration is 'acceptable' is pretty laughable.

rustic_potato

Woeler wrote: »

Even with full support sets you can tank for pug groups that have barely any damage or knowledge about mechanics. There is absolutely no reason at all to play a non-support tank in PVE. Zero, Null, Nothing.

@Woeler
What if I want to be a selfish tank? That is reason enough for me. I have cleared all content in the game being a selfish tank. I don't care about trial scores that get reset every time ZOS decides to "fix" stuff. People like you are the problem with this game.

ninjaguyman

Supportive tank(ebon armory ofcourse, war horn, and buffs group)

I would hope most tanks aspire to the support tank option, if they are reasonably skilled at tanking of course. If your pretty new at tanking, then by all means, wear armor sets that aid in your own sustain and survivability until you feel more comfortable. a dead tank isn't very useful, even if they are wearing full support gear.

Woeler

Supportive tank(ebon armory ofcourse, war horn, and buffs group)

Tasear wrote: »

Be it tank or healer as long as we keep you alive, then we did our job. Let's be real the medium sets like atllkoash and sunderflame aren't tank sets, nor is Hircine. DPS should learn to actually be supportive.

Nah.

rustic_potato wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

Even with full support sets you can tank for pug groups that have barely any damage or knowledge about mechanics. There is absolutely no reason at all to play a non-support tank in PVE. Zero, Null, Nothing.

@Woeler
What if I want to be a selfish tank? That is reason enough for me. I have cleared all content in the game being a selfish tank. I don't care about trial scores that get reset every time ZOS decides to "fix" stuff. People like you are the problem with this game.

I'll rephrase: If you don't want to get carried and actually be a valuable team asset there is zero reason not to play a supportive tank.

As a response to me being the problem: boohoo.

paulsimonps

Supportive tank(ebon armory ofcourse, war horn, and buffs group)

Woeler wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Be it tank or healer as long as we keep you alive, then we did our job. Let's be real the medium sets like atllkoash and sunderflame aren't tank sets, nor is Hircine. DPS should learn to actually be supportive.

Nah.

rustic_potato wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

Even with full support sets you can tank for pug groups that have barely any damage or knowledge about mechanics. There is absolutely no reason at all to play a non-support tank in PVE. Zero, Null, Nothing.

@Woeler
What if I want to be a selfish tank? That is reason enough for me. I have cleared all content in the game being a selfish tank. I don't care about trial scores that get reset every time ZOS decides to "fix" stuff. People like you are the problem with this game.

I'll rephrase: If you don't want to get carried and actually be a valuable team asset there is zero reason not to play a supportive tank.

As a response to me being the problem: boohoo.

I agree, its about being a team player and not just keeping yourself alive. Abilities can only get you so far in terms of buffs and debuffs and using your gear to extend what you can do for your team is the right way to go. Its not even about score. If you have someone that pulls only 25k then even for them using Ebon+Alkosh will help them survive and do more DPS. It will help a 45k DPS person to in the same way. So its not just about score, for some its about simply completing. So people saying that they can do all the content in the game without those sets, yes its possible but you are making it harder for everyone else by being selfish. Doesn't matter if you completed or not or if you did it really really well or if you did it badly, not matter how you completed it could have been done better with more supportive sets.

overclocker303b14_ESO

Selfish tank that does nothing for group besides taunt, debuff and stay alive(min maxer maybe)

I don't see 'taunt' listed under 'supportive' tank, so I voted for the 'selfish' one...