Dubious Camoran Throne

CylindricalBox

I reported this in-game already, but I wanted to post here for more visibility. The recipe says the consumable is a food.

However, the crafted item is a drink, which activates the 5th piece of Bone Pirate's Tatters. This gives an unfairly high amount of resources compared to any other set.

One of these items is incorrect. Is Dubious Camoran Throne meant to be a drink? If so, please re-balance either the drink or the Bone Pirate set. Otherwise, please change the consumable to a food.

Strider_Roshin

Stop trying to take away my nice things! Stam has a set that provides a phenomenal amount of resource management. Magicka has a set that provides a phenomenal amount of spell damage (Burning Spell Weave), but you didn't see stamina getting on here asking for BSW to be nerfed. Stamina is already underperforming, God forbid we're thrown a bone!

Strider_Roshin

Also may I remind you that Witchmother's potent brew offers mirror'd effects, and is also classified as a drink? Bone Pirate has been left in the dust for quite some time, now it's finally worth using in PvP! And you already have people crying nerf. Pathetic.

Hoked_on_ponix

You are like the kid who reminded the teacher that the class had homework due.

CylindricalBox

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Stop trying to take away my nice things! Stam has a set that provides a phenomenal amount of resource management. Magicka has a set that provides a phenomenal amount of spell damage (Burning Spell Weave), but you didn't see stamina getting on here asking for BSW to be nerfed. Stamina is already underperforming, God forbid we're thrown a bone!

That's not an accurate comparison. Bone Pirate is not just a recovery set. Its 5th piece gives more than two set bonuses worth of Max Stamina (damage) on top the equivalent of over two set bonuses of Stamina Recovery.

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Also may I remind you that Witchmother's potent brew offers mirror'd effects, and is also classified as a drink?

This is irrelevant, because there exists no Magicka set that gives bonuses with a drink active like Bone Pirate does.

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

And you already have people crying nerf.

I'm not "crying nerf" without reason. I am a Stamina player, but even my biased eyes can see this as a major imbalance. Bone Pirate provides far, far more raw stats than any other set when combined with this new drink.

Here's a Bone Pirate piece for posterity.

Jamini

It's intended. Witchmother's Potent Brew is also a drink. Leave it alone.

Stam is currently weaker than magicka in every way.

Theodard

Playing a mSorc at all times, I can say that I find this to be not at all unfair. It provides sustain for stam players and that's about it. Still have to pair that set with a good damage set, like magic does with Lich or Warlock and use Witch Mothers. Speaking which, I'm not sure why it look so long to bring out this drink when Witch Mothers has been in game for six months.

Strider_Roshin

I agree with the others, magicka has so much going for it right now; stamina needs this from a balance perspective in PvP. This still does nothing for stamina for PvE, but this will be a nice buff for stam as far as resource management goes. If you want more damage, Spriggans + Lava foot food still provides more damage while at the same time having adequate resource management. This recipe just offers a nice balance of Damage, and resource management.

Magicka already has a ton going for it when it comes to powerful sets (i.e. BSW, Rattlecage, Soulshine, Lich, Krag's, Warlock, etc.). How about letting stamina have one?

Strider_Roshin

CylindricalBox wrote: »

I'm not "crying nerf" without reason. I am a Stamina player, but even my biased eyes can see this as a major imbalance. Bone Pirate provides far, far more raw stats than any other set when combined with this new drink.

Incorrect. Every heard of Hulking Draugr? It provides 1500 more max stam with no conditions. Hulking synergizes very well with Redguards since the more max stam they have, the more stam they get back with Adrenaline Rush. Bone Pirate provides less damage, but more regen than Hulking under a very specific condition.

Strider_Roshin

And if you think Hulking is powerful, you outta check out Necropotence. It's way more powerful than Hulking, but only under a certain condition (combat pets).

So with Hulking Draugr as the reference level; Bone Pirate provides less damage, but more regen; and Necropotence provides more damage, but less regen (I say less because there's no magicka race with an analogous version of Adrenaline Rush). Both Bone Pirate, and Necropotence require a specific circumstance to be used (Bone Pirate requires a drink, necropotence requires a combat pet).

Bone Pirate + DCT provides less health, less stamina, but more stam regen than Hulking does with Blue max health/stamina food.

CylindricalBox

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

CylindricalBox wrote: »

I'm not "crying nerf" without reason. I am a Stamina player, but even my biased eyes can see this as a major imbalance. Bone Pirate provides far, far more raw stats than any other set when combined with this new drink.

Incorrect. Every heard of Hulking Draugr? It provides 1500 more max stam with no conditions. Hulking synergizes very well with Redguards since the more max stam they have, the more stam they get back with Adrenaline Rush. Bone Pirate provides less damage, but more regen than Hulking under a very specific condition.

Hulking Draugr's fifth piece provides only 500 (half a set bonus) Max Stamina more than Bone Pirate's. Bone Pirate also happens to give a very modest double set bonus of 300 Stamina Recovery.

If we compare these two sets in terms their fifth piece bonuses, Hulking Draugr's grants roughly 2.5 set bonuses (2.5 Max Stamina), which pales in comparison to Bone Pirate's, which is equivalent to about 4 set bonuses (2 Max Stamina, 2+ Stamina Recovery).

Obviously, the amount of raw stat Bone Pirate provides is very high. Bear in mind that, before the introduction of this new drink, the pitfall of this set was the low Max Health and Max Stamina, as there was no viable Stamina drink that granted these stats. Introducing such a consumable effectively negates this weakness and makes Bone Pirate extremely powerful to an unfair degree.

Hulking Draugr piece for posterity.

Strider_Roshin

CylindricalBox wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

CylindricalBox wrote: »

I'm not "crying nerf" without reason. I am a Stamina player, but even my biased eyes can see this as a major imbalance. Bone Pirate provides far, far more raw stats than any other set when combined with this new drink.

Incorrect. Every heard of Hulking Draugr? It provides 1500 more max stam with no conditions. Hulking synergizes very well with Redguards since the more max stam they have, the more stam they get back with Adrenaline Rush. Bone Pirate provides less damage, but more regen than Hulking under a very specific condition.

Hulking Draugr's fifth piece provides only 500 (half a set bonus) Max Stamina more than Bone Pirate's. Bone Pirate also happens to give a very modest double set bonus of 300 Stamina Recovery.

If we compare these two sets in terms their fifth piece bonuses, Hulking Draugr's grants roughly 2.5 set bonuses (2.5 Max Stamina), which pales in comparison to Bone Pirate's, which is equivalent to about 4 set bonuses (2 Max Stamina, 2+ Stamina Recovery).

Obviously, the amount of raw stat Bone Pirate provides is very high. Bear in mind that, before the introduction of this new drink, the pitfall of this set was the low Max Health and Max Stamina, as there was no viable Stamina drink that granted these stats. Introducing such a consumable effectively negates this weakness and makes Bone Pirate extremely powerful to an unfair degree.

Hulking Draugr piece for posterity.

Hulking also has an additional 967, so no it's not just a 500 point difference; it's a 1500 point difference like I mentioned earlier. And the issue with Bone Pirate was that it became irrelevant when Lava Foot-Saltrice became available because you were able to achieve adequate resource management with any damage focused set (I personally used Spriggans), but with more damage. This new recipe has finally made Bone Pirate viable again! And what you're suggesting is that we put it back in grave from whence it came!

Ahzek

This does not "make bonepirate viable", this makes it a must use set except for very certain setups.
Obviously only for stamina builds.

Strider_Roshin

May I remind you that a damage focused set such as Spriggan's, Hulking, Hunding's, Automaton with Lava foot provides more damage, adequate regen, but less health than BP+DCT.

And that the damage-focused sets previously mentioned set combined with blue max health/stam food provides more damage, more health, but much less regen than BP+DCT (However if you combine those sets with Black Rose regen isn't an issue).

Do you even play magicka? Do you know why Witchmothers wasn't that necessary? Because you could just use Lich or Warlock (both of these grant phenomenal resource management), and use Blue food for your damage, and health. And now that minor magicka steal is a thing it's even easier.

Strider_Roshin

Ahzek wrote: »

This does not "make bonepirate viable", this makes it a must use set except for very certain setups.
Obviously only for stamina builds.

Would it make you feel better if magicka had a version of this set? I hope ZOS gives you one otherwise I expect nothing but tears from the magicka community. Meanwhile where's my stamina version of BSW? Can we get a version that gives us 728 Weapon damage just from using Poison injection? Give me that, and I'll happily give up Bone Pirate for such an insane amount of damage. While ZOS is at it can we also have minor stamina steal? I'd love to have 800 stam regen for free.

How typical, the magicka community loves acting like Toddlers; pointing out when stamina has a toy that they don't, but failing to acknowledge your own. Thankfully not all magicka players are this selfish.

Surak73

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

This does not "make bonepirate viable", this makes it a must use set except for very certain setups.
Obviously only for stamina builds.

Would it make you feel better if magicka had a version of this set?

No, it wouldn't, since Witchmother is not viable for magicka in pvp anyway, unless you want to enter in Cyrodiil with less than 10K stamina - which is a suicide...

Hoked_on_ponix

Surak73 wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

This does not "make bonepirate viable", this makes it a must use set except for very certain setups.
Obviously only for stamina builds.

Would it make you feel better if magicka had a version of this set?

No, it wouldn't, since Witchmother is not viable for magicka in pvp anyway, unless you want to enter in Cyrodiil with less than 10K stamina - which is a suicide...

Run the same food

Strider_Roshin

Surak73 wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

This does not "make bonepirate viable", this makes it a must use set except for very certain setups.
Obviously only for stamina builds.

Would it make you feel better if magicka had a version of this set?

No, it wouldn't, since Witchmother is not viable for magicka in pvp anyway, unless you want to enter in Cyrodiil with less than 10K stamina - which is a suicide...

Why would you have such low stam? Wear 5/1/1, and tri-glyph your big pieces. And if you're a Dunmer you definitely can get away without using having to use purple food. Just a thought.

Hoked_on_ponix

Hoked_on_ponix wrote: »

Surak73 wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

This does not "make bonepirate viable", this makes it a must use set except for very certain setups.
Obviously only for stamina builds.

Would it make you feel better if magicka had a version of this set?

No, it wouldn't, since Witchmother is not viable for magicka in pvp anyway, unless you want to enter in Cyrodiil with less than 10K stamina - which is a suicide...

Run the same food

I mean drink, the new one

Ahzek

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

This does not "make bonepirate viable", this makes it a must use set except for very certain setups.
Obviously only for stamina builds.

Would it make you feel better if magicka had a version of this set? I hope ZOS gives you one otherwise I expect nothing but tears from the magicka community. Meanwhile where's my stamina version of BSW? Can we get a version that gives us 728 Weapon damage just from using Poison injection? Give me that, and I'll happily give up Bone Pirate for such an insane amount of damage. While ZOS is at it can we also have minor stamina steal? I'd love to have 800 stam regen for free.

How typical, the magicka community loves acting like Toddlers; pointing out when stamina has a toy that they don't, but failing to acknowledge your own. Thankfully not all magicka players are this selfish.

I haven't touched a magica build since IC release, but lets leave this "your side this, my side that" *** out of here ok ?

This is not about stam builds getting something mag builds dont have.
This is about stam builds getting something that makes many other choices for stam builds pointless. Bone pirate was an amazingly designed set before DCT because it provided a very strong benefit to a requirement which forced you to adapt your build.
Before DCT you had to loose the HP bonus from regular food to benefit from higher stats than other stam builds could achieve and had to adjust your setup accordingly. With DCT bonepirate instantly becomes the BiS for any stamina PvP build that wants both damage and regen (that means most stam builds) without sacrificing anything.

My solution to this would be to change DCT to be food, while Lava foot stomp would become a drink, allowing for high damage and sustain with BP, but still forcing build choices regarding health.

On another note, DCT purely uses food ingredients, while the other new food purely uses drink ingredients, so this might also just be a bug with those 2 being switched around.

Surak73

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Surak73 wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

This does not "make bonepirate viable", this makes it a must use set except for very certain setups.
Obviously only for stamina builds.

Would it make you feel better if magicka had a version of this set?

No, it wouldn't, since Witchmother is not viable for magicka in pvp anyway, unless you want to enter in Cyrodiil with less than 10K stamina - which is a suicide...

Why would you have such low stam? Wear 5/1/1, and tri-glyph your big pieces. And if you're a Dunmer you definitely can get away without using having to use purple food. Just a thought.

Well, if I have a base, let's say (I can't check it now), of 10K stamina (with 7 light), even wearing 5+1+1 I would get only a 4% more, which is to say 400 stamina more. I don't think these 400 points would be enough to save my ass in the Cyrodiil CC feast...

With 2 triglyph on chest and legs, I would have another 700 stamina, I think, but I would still remain at 11.1K. And I wouldn't feel very safe...

Strider_Roshin

Ahzek wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

This does not "make bonepirate viable", this makes it a must use set except for very certain setups.
Obviously only for stamina builds.

Would it make you feel better if magicka had a version of this set? I hope ZOS gives you one otherwise I expect nothing but tears from the magicka community. Meanwhile where's my stamina version of BSW? Can we get a version that gives us 728 Weapon damage just from using Poison injection? Give me that, and I'll happily give up Bone Pirate for such an insane amount of damage. While ZOS is at it can we also have minor stamina steal? I'd love to have 800 stam regen for free.

How typical, the magicka community loves acting like Toddlers; pointing out when stamina has a toy that they don't, but failing to acknowledge your own. Thankfully not all magicka players are this selfish.

I haven't touched a magica build since IC release, but lets leave this "your side this, my side that" *** out of here ok ?

This is not about stam builds getting something mag builds dont have.
This is about stam builds getting something that makes many other choices for stam builds pointless. Bone pirate was an amazingly designed set before DCT because it provided a very strong benefit to a requirement which forced you to adapt your build.
Before DCT you had to loose the HP bonus from regular food to benefit from higher stats than other stam builds could achieve and had to adjust your setup accordingly. With DCT bonepirate instantly becomes the BiS for any stamina PvP build that wants both damage and regen (that means most stam builds) without sacrificing anything.

My solution to this would be to change DCT to be food, while Lava foot stomp would become a drink, allowing for high damage and sustain with BP, but still forcing build choices regarding health.

On another note, DCT purely uses food ingredients, while the other new food purely uses drink ingredients, so this might also just be a bug with those 2 being switched around.

I wouldn't be opposed to the swtch tbh; although I still feel that the BP+DCT combination is perfectly fine. As I mentioned earlier, there are plenty of other combinations that offer better damage, and health. The BP+DCT combination just allows for a very well-rounded build for PvP, and IMO there's nothing wrong with that.

Vaoh

The purpose of Bone Pirate's Tatters is to provide an enormous amount of *perfect* stats, but only if you run a drink, which will naturally weaken your character since drinks have been worthless for a long time. It balances out to be more on the weaker side.

Here is the powerful Hulking Draugr set compared to Bone Pirate's Tatters side-by-side:



The addition of this new type of food/drink that gives all of the best stats is a terrible idea imo. We should have choose between Max Stats, Recovery stats, and which resource pools we want to increase. Combining the Max Stats and Recovery into a sort of "ultimate" stat buff with no negative effects/wasted stats is ridiculous.

Also if there were Magicka Variant of Bone Pirate's Tatters it would be remarkably OP and the QQ would never end.

Right now I'd say that if I ran Stamina, I would immediately flock towards Bone Pirate's Tatters and this new recipe to have an OP asf character.

Those are my thoughts on what we'll definitely start seeing smart players use in PvP

Strider_Roshin

Vaoh wrote: »

The purpose of Bone Pirate's Tatters is to provide an enormous amount of *perfect* stats, but only if you run a drink, which will naturally weaken your character since drinks have been worthless for a long time. It balances out to be more on the weaker side.

Here is the powerful Hulking Draugr set compared to Bone Pirate's Tatters side-by-side:



The addition of this new type of food/drink that gives all of the best stats is a terrible idea imo. We should have choose between Max Stats, Recovery stats, and which resource pools we want to increase. Combining the Max Stats and Recovery into a sort of "ultimate" stat buff with no negative effects/wasted stats is ridiculous.

Also if there were Magicka Variant of Bone Pirate's Tatters it would be remarkably OP and the QQ would never end.

Right now I'd say that if I ran Stamina, I would immediately flock towards Bone Pirate's Tatters and this new recipe to have an OP asf character.

Those are my thoughts on what we'll definitely start seeing smart players use in PvP

In a game that has such insanely powerful sets as Necropotence, and BSW; I think Bone Pirate is more than balanced with this recipe. If this gets nerfed, Necropotence and BSW need a good nerf in the process.

Izaki

As much as I hate to say it... I think its a bug. Unless you can drink white meat

Strider_Roshin

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

As much as I hate to say it... I think its a bug. Unless you can drink white meat

Witchmother's Potent Brew contains "Small game". If you can drink rabbit, you can drink pig lol

Vaoh

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

The purpose of Bone Pirate's Tatters is to provide an enormous amount of *perfect* stats, but only if you run a drink, which will naturally weaken your character since drinks have been worthless for a long time. It balances out to be more on the weaker side.

Here is the powerful Hulking Draugr set compared to Bone Pirate's Tatters side-by-side:



The addition of this new type of food/drink that gives all of the best stats is a terrible idea imo. We should have choose between Max Stats, Recovery stats, and which resource pools we want to increase. Combining the Max Stats and Recovery into a sort of "ultimate" stat buff with no negative effects/wasted stats is ridiculous.

Also if there were Magicka Variant of Bone Pirate's Tatters it would be remarkably OP and the QQ would never end.

Right now I'd say that if I ran Stamina, I would immediately flock towards Bone Pirate's Tatters and this new recipe to have an OP asf character.

Those are my thoughts on what we'll definitely start seeing smart players use in PvP

In a game that has such insanely powerful sets as Necropotence, and BSW; I think Bone Pirate is more than balanced with this recipe. If this gets nerfed, Necropotence and BSW need a good nerf in the process.

Those are very different and almost incomparable though. Necropotence has a handicap, forcing the usage of pets (terrible outside of 1v1s). In PvP a Mag NB can do this effectively but a Mag Sorc would be better off without. It's not great either way.

You sacrifice to get that buff. Bone Pirate's Tatters is supposed to have a handicap as well, forcing the usage of drinks (weak). This recipe allows you to sidestep the handicap and gain the powerful benefits free of charge. The equivalent would be Necropotence bugging out and granting 4000 Max Magicka regardless of if you had a pet out or not.

I can see why you like this set. I can tell you'll use it since it's obviously super strong due to this error with the recipe. All I'm saying is that it is kind of over the top. This set is literally a much, much stronger version of Draugr Hulk now due to what is likely a bug

Strider_Roshin

Vaoh wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

The purpose of Bone Pirate's Tatters is to provide an enormous amount of *perfect* stats, but only if you run a drink, which will naturally weaken your character since drinks have been worthless for a long time. It balances out to be more on the weaker side.

Here is the powerful Hulking Draugr set compared to Bone Pirate's Tatters side-by-side:



The addition of this new type of food/drink that gives all of the best stats is a terrible idea imo. We should have choose between Max Stats, Recovery stats, and which resource pools we want to increase. Combining the Max Stats and Recovery into a sort of "ultimate" stat buff with no negative effects/wasted stats is ridiculous.

Also if there were Magicka Variant of Bone Pirate's Tatters it would be remarkably OP and the QQ would never end.

Right now I'd say that if I ran Stamina, I would immediately flock towards Bone Pirate's Tatters and this new recipe to have an OP asf character.

Those are my thoughts on what we'll definitely start seeing smart players use in PvP

In a game that has such insanely powerful sets as Necropotence, and BSW; I think Bone Pirate is more than balanced with this recipe. If this gets nerfed, Necropotence and BSW need a good nerf in the process.

Those are very different and almost incomparable though. Necropotence has a handicap, forcing the usage of pets (terrible outside of 1v1s). In PvP a Mag NB can do this effectively but a Mag Sorc would be better off without. It's not great either way.

You sacrifice to get that buff. Bone Pirate's Tatters is supposed to have a handicap as well, forcing the usage of drinks (weak). This recipe allows you to sidestep the handicap and gain the powerful benefits free of charge. The equivalent would be Necropotence bugging out and granting 4000 Max Magicka regardless of if you had a pet out or not.

I can see why you like this set. I can tell you'll use it since it's obviously super strong due to this error with the recipe. All I'm saying is that it is kind of over the top. This set is literally a much, much stronger version of Draugr Hulk now due to what is likely a bug

The icon for the drink looks like a drink, not food. The recipe is analogous to the magicka version; which is a drink. Also just because it's listed as a drink doesn't mean it'll work with Bone Pirate. For example, the Bloody Mara recipe is classified as a drink, but it doesn't activated the 5-piece for Bone Pirate. That means this recipe is a drink intentionally. This is no error.

And yeah, Bone Pirate is very strong now. Why is that an issue? You know what's stronger? Burning Spell Weave. Trust me, if stamina got a version of BSW that grants 729 Weapon damage just for keeping up Poison Injection, you would forget all about Bone Pirate, and this recipe.

This isn't about balance, this is about keeping stamina in the dirt.

DeadlyRecluse

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

As much as I hate to say it... I think its a bug. Unless you can drink white meat

Witchmother's Potent Brew contains "Small game". If you can drink rabbit, you can drink pig lol

I harvest my white meat from monkeys exclusively, tyvm.

And I can absolutely drink monkeys.

Ilsabet

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

As much as I hate to say it... I think its a bug. Unless you can drink white meat

The description on the actual consumable describes it as a mixture of Wood Elf alcoholic drinks, most of which are made from fermented meat.

Lieblingsjunge

My only concern is the 7k free stam & 600 free recovery Stamina-players on Azura will get. Sadly magicka classes, e.g. a magika nightblade, magtemplar or magdk won't be close to that.
I want a Bone Pirate for Magicka, to use on my magtemp on Azura. Would be great. I would even go light armour, just for the sake of easy-peasy free stats.