An increase in "invincible" builds?

Elong

How dare a player be better than someone else on this game?

I bet the counter that most people use in this thread is to bring more players.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

How many of you who complain about not being able to kill players 10 on 1 are also using a bunch of impen gear and have thousands into recovery?

If you want to kill "unkillable" players then you need to spec for damage. Going with infused/divines and a max stat will give you just enough extra damage to be the guy who walks up to these tree runners and casually melts them.

Lokey0024

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

How many of you who complain about not being able to kill players 10 on 1 are also using a bunch of impen gear and have thousands into recovery?

If you want to kill "unkillable" players then you need to spec for damage. Going with infused/divines and a max stat will give you just enough extra damage to be the guy who walks up to these tree runners and casually melts them.

Quite possibly the dumbest, or smartest if you trying to trick people, thing I've read in a while.

Dr_Ganknstein

Vigor. Every video I watch these guys are almost dead and they cast vigor and poof 100% hp. Flawed healing mechanic. Base heals off of +healing and thats it. Not magic DAMAGE or weapon DAMAGE or magica and staminia.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Lokey0024 wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

How many of you who complain about not being able to kill players 10 on 1 are also using a bunch of impen gear and have thousands into recovery?

If you want to kill "unkillable" players then you need to spec for damage. Going with infused/divines and a max stat will give you just enough extra damage to be the guy who walks up to these tree runners and casually melts them.

Quite possibly the dumbest, or smartest if you trying to trick people, thing I've read in a while.

I'm not trying to trick anyone. It's completely true and accurate. If you add just a little more DPS via your gear trait then you will have enough in Cyrodiil to put your head above water against these players. If course you'll be a squishier character but that's the trade off.

Try it before you dismiss it. Works great. But what do I know, I only have 30,000 kills.

Krist

Late on the thread but here is my 2 cents.

I am not an uber PvP'er, and while some may say that can discount me, it means I am more like the majority of players in Cyrodiil, maybe slightly above average.

I do not have a problem with the "tank builds" that cannot be killed easy. They do trade off the ability to make kills. In the end, they do not seem able to kill anyone themselves. It really IS a trade off. You may not like them, I don't, but it is a build that DOES NOT need nerfing. Just because we do not like something does not mean the devs have to step in. I will fight them for a moment until I see there have endless blocks/shields/heals, and then leave them alone. If you feel a need to chase these guys that cannot hurt a fly, then go for it, but dont blame them.

I remember one was sieging solo, so I attacked him. Did little damage. I finally just burned his siege. He then focused on me, attacked me......and he did no more damage to me than I did to him, and I was all dps! Another player came up and we both attacked and did little damage, but again, he could not harm us. Eventually he was killed when a big group showed up.

My point though is this. Why is it okay to have these glass cannons but not okay to have these rubber weapon tanks? I dont think there really is more and more of them, but it is the same ones you are running into over and over, with just enough to be a pain in the rear, and to make it appear there are more.

In their defense, it is a valid build, especially with a group. They lure inexperienced players into breaking from a group fight, weakening their group.

Boring? Yes. Needs to be "fixed'? No.

As has been shown above, there are just some that are excellent and get kills as well, but that is just very experienced players. You dont dev that, you accept it. THEY are not near as common, but do exist.

Adernath

Vapirko wrote: »

In light of both spamming abilities and constantly running around trees, i think it would be interesting to have something implemented where spamming causes abilities to cost exponentially more after a while.

Yea, we have this with bolt escape already, they should let it affect all abilities and leave cp as it is. Then people can not spam the same abilities over and over again and need to manage resources.

CatchMeTrolling

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

How many of you who complain about not being able to kill players 10 on 1 are also using a bunch of impen gear and have thousands into recovery?

If you want to kill "unkillable" players then you need to spec for damage. Going with infused/divines and a max stat will give you just enough extra damage to be the guy who walks up to these tree runners and casually melts them.

Quite possibly the dumbest, or smartest if you trying to trick people, thing I've read in a while.

I'm not trying to trick anyone. It's completely true and accurate. If you add just a little more DPS via your gear trait then you will have enough in Cyrodiil to put your head above water against these players. If course you'll be a squishier character but that's the trade off.

Try it before you dismiss it. Works great. But what do I know, I only have 30,000 kills.

I wouldn't recommend anyone go glass cannon outside of gank builds to be honest, unless you're running in groups. If someone has a Jack of all trades build 9 out of 10 they know what they're doing so typically builds like that doesn't work on them simply because they know how to mitigate damage. Aren't you a Templar, it's like the easiest damage to mitigate in this meta as well.

And as for kills I'm pretty sure I was top 3 or 5 on Xbox with almost 200k and that was in December, so does that mean I know more?

zuto40

i feel like i kinda cant relate to this unkillable 1v6 scenario you guys talked about since im a stam nb wearing medium armor and engine guardian

THEDKEXPERIENCE

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

How many of you who complain about not being able to kill players 10 on 1 are also using a bunch of impen gear and have thousands into recovery?

If you want to kill "unkillable" players then you need to spec for damage. Going with infused/divines and a max stat will give you just enough extra damage to be the guy who walks up to these tree runners and casually melts them.

Quite possibly the dumbest, or smartest if you trying to trick people, thing I've read in a while.

I'm not trying to trick anyone. It's completely true and accurate. If you add just a little more DPS via your gear trait then you will have enough in Cyrodiil to put your head above water against these players. If course you'll be a squishier character but that's the trade off.

Try it before you dismiss it. Works great. But what do I know, I only have 30,000 kills.

I wouldn't recommend anyone go glass cannon outside of gank builds to be honest, unless you're running in groups. If someone has a Jack of all trades build 9 out of 10 they know what they're doing so typically builds like that doesn't work on them simply because they know how to mitigate damage. Aren't you a Templar, it's like the easiest damage to mitigate in this meta as well.

And as for kills I'm pretty sure I was top 3 or 5 on Xbox with almost 200k and that was in December, so does that mean I know more?

Haha. Well, probably. And, yeah, I know that you know what you're doing. You're a very good player and we have plenty of common friends.

I also know that 30k is no great feat. I just wanted something to use as a reference so point out that I do know what I'm talking about.

Also, yeah I'm a "jack of all trades" Templar. Still, I've seen the situation that the OP talked about hundreds of times, and in all but the most extreme situations my character cleans up the running around the tree guy pretty quickly.

Oh ... and my kill count being low has way more to do with my work schedule than anything. I get maybe 10 hours a week in tops. This week I've gotten 0 since I'm on a business trip.

Torbschka

BoxFoxx wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

BoxFoxx wrote: »

...and if you're getting smacked by 6 guys CatchMeTrolling you SHOULD die. Exactly my point that you're missing. Those six guys should be pissed that they can't kill one.

The problem is: 6 People that know what they´re doing will kill a sorc quickly. Very quickly. If they can´t it´s a user error.

So what do you think those guys should be angry about?

A 6 on 1 scenario should be a quick kill for ANYONE!

How hard is that to understand?

How hard is it to understand, that a 6v1 is a fast kill, as long as the 6 people know what zhey are doing.

Let me fighten vs 6 potatoes ans I kill them in 30 seconds - thats how it should be.

Listen bro, even in a 2v1 I have 0 chance if the guys are good and will die, ur Mimi is just an excuse for missing game knowledge...

Baboonezz

davey1107 wrote: »

In recent weeks, I feel like we're seeing more and more invincible builds...the players who get cornered by 10-20 other players, run in a circle around a tree or rock casting endless heals and wards, and who take forever to take down in a long, boring battle with no real reward.

So, for discussion:

1. Does it seem like these builds are really on the rise? (Or am I running into the same three guys over and over).

2. Is there something off with a player being able to endlessly survive attacks from 10+ other players?

3. Do these builds enhance or hurt pvp? (I find them tedious, but I'm open-minded to other opinions. The way I can accept that, sure, someone out there loves Paulette Shore films).

1. No, this has been happening since the dawn of time. It's called kiting and using the environment.
2. No, theres something off with the 10+ players attacking them.
3. Don't know, don't care. People can build how they want, i'll find a way to kill/counter them. Unless its a tankDK, they can stand there holding right click all night if that's whats fun for them, i'll just leave them be.

What you describe can be done on a level 10 if the people chasing them are silly enough. Stop chasing their tail and corner them properly, chasing their tail will have you forever LoS when its around a tree or rock. I have ran a half zerg around a tree for 10 minutes, I have been blown up by 4 players when attempting to kite them around the tree in under 30 seconds.

Mayrael

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

everyone should be on the same level and equal in pvp. but in eso they're not and it ruins pvp.

Its an mmo, differences are point of pvp here. If id like to play on the same lvl id go to play CS, Unreal or Quake.

Unkillable builds?
Hahaha! Im playing 3 toons Cyro and all 3 are different. Heavy armored magplar, light armored sorc and medium armored stamblade. What are my observations?
1. When facing newbies and lemings all 3 toons are unkillable, no matter what type of armor I wear.
2. When facing GOOD player 1v1 is pretty balanced.
3. When facing 2 GOOD players you need to be lucky to win, as if they dont make any mistakes you cant win.
4. Im not a fan of this but I have to write it: L2P

davey1107

@THEDKEXPERIENCE

I can't speak for everyone, but my main pvp-er is a stamblade configured for dps. The idea of simply increasing damage output is problematic for several reasons:

1. He's pretty maxxed as it is, running the meta health, divines, BIS gear, all passives, etc. There's not a lot to upgrade.

2. Increasing his damage offsets his survivability. If invincible builds requires a whole class of super squishy dps builds to kill them, pvp will be completely imbalanced.

3. In my OP, I wasn't talking about strong players, I was referencing god-like players. Players where my strongest hits, which usually do 10k damage even against a good build, hit for 3k, with half missing and another quarter doing mysteriously low damage of like 150. These builds have infinite resources, heal through what damage can hit them, and take 10-15 players to bring them down.

If someone can 1x6 that's awesome...I've seen the best players do it. But if someone can 1x15 without dying, something is off. We've been here before...I think it was update 4 or 5, a looooong time ago. Changes create a class of invincible Dragonknights. They're back...so be wary, DKs...when the pvp reports at ZOS start showing this behavior it'll mean a massive nerf to all DKs. Which is unfortunate...it's going to hurt them in PVE.

BoxFoxx

davey1107 wrote: »

@THEDKEXPERIENCE

I can't speak for everyone, but my main pvp-er is a stamblade configured for dps. The idea of simply increasing damage output is problematic for several reasons:

1. He's pretty maxxed as it is, running the meta health, divines, BIS gear, all passives, etc. There's not a lot to upgrade.

2. Increasing his damage offsets his survivability. If invincible builds requires a whole class of super squishy dps builds to kill them, pvp will be completely imbalanced.

3. In my OP, I wasn't talking about strong players, I was referencing god-like players. Players where my strongest hits, which usually do 10k damage even against a good build, hit for 3k, with half missing and another quarter doing mysteriously low damage of like 150. These builds have infinite resources, heal through what damage can hit them, and take 10-15 players to bring them down.

If someone can 1x6 that's awesome...I've seen the best players do it. But if someone can 1x15 without dying, something is off. We've been here before...I think it was update 4 or 5, a looooong time ago. Changes create a class of invincible Dragonknights. They're back...so be wary, DKs...when the pvp reports at ZOS start showing this behavior it'll mean a massive nerf to all DKs. Which is unfortunate...it's going to hurt them in PVE.

I agree 100%. I also can vouch for number 3 as I have experienced the same thing.

I really don't want to see a bunch of nerfing happen. I prefer if the devs simply put stat caps in PvP (on all players while in Cyrodiil) that way PvE won't be hurt. Nerfing skills never made sense to me. Correct me if I'm wrong but most nerfs are implemented due to balance issues in PvP. So why nerf, just put in checks and measures in PvP.

BoxFoxx

Baboonezz wrote: »

davey1107 wrote: »

In recent weeks, I feel like we're seeing more and more invincible builds...the players who get cornered by 10-20 other players, run in a circle around a tree or rock casting endless heals and wards, and who take forever to take down in a long, boring battle with no real reward.

So, for discussion:

1. Does it seem like these builds are really on the rise? (Or am I running into the same three guys over and over).

2. Is there something off with a player being able to endlessly survive attacks from 10+ other players?

3. Do these builds enhance or hurt pvp? (I find them tedious, but I'm open-minded to other opinions. The way I can accept that, sure, someone out there loves Paulette Shore films).

1. No, this has been happening since the dawn of time. It's called kiting and using the environment.
2. No, theres something off with the 10+ players attacking them.
3. Don't know, don't care. People can build how they want, i'll find a way to kill/counter them. Unless its a tankDK, they can stand there holding right click all night if that's whats fun for them, i'll just leave them be.

What you describe can be done on a level 10 if the people chasing them are silly enough. Stop chasing their tail and corner them properly, chasing their tail will have you forever LoS when its around a tree or rock. I have ran a half zerg around a tree for 10 minutes, I have been blown up by 4 players when attempting to kite them around the tree in under 30 seconds.

Davey1107 isn't talking about tactics like kiting. That and other skilled play is cool. No one has a problem with that. What the OP is speaking about is players that can survive massive damage without kiting. There is an imbalance somewhere. I also run a stamblade like Davey. With all my buffs I can put out 10k damage consistently, but nearly all of my damage is mitigated on some players. We're not talking about good players being hard to kill. We're specifically talking about a few players out there who really are practically invincible.

BoxFoxx

Torbschka wrote: »

BoxFoxx wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

BoxFoxx wrote: »

...and if you're getting smacked by 6 guys CatchMeTrolling you SHOULD die. Exactly my point that you're missing. Those six guys should be pissed that they can't kill one.

The problem is: 6 People that know what they´re doing will kill a sorc quickly. Very quickly. If they can´t it´s a user error.

So what do you think those guys should be angry about?

A 6 on 1 scenario should be a quick kill for ANYONE!

How hard is that to understand?

How hard is it to understand, that a 6v1 is a fast kill, as long as the 6 people know what zhey are doing.

Let me fighten vs 6 potatoes ans I kill them in 30 seconds - thats how it should be.

Listen bro, even in a 2v1 I have 0 chance if the guys are good and will die, ur Mimi is just an excuse for missing game knowledge...

You're not listening to the whole conversation here man, just like many of you being so quick to respond.

The topic is not about good players versus bad players. The topic is about certain players being nearly invincible where even 6 good players have difficulty killing them, if at all.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

I understand exactly what you are all saying. If you want to kill one of these guys you need a few things on top of just the gear traits I mentioned.

- You need to run an ultimate other than the destro ult. Everyone runs the destro ult. Good players know how to avoid it. Uber tanks eat it up. Personally I use soul assault if I have line of sight into a radiant oppression. 99% of players cannot survive this. If they can, just move along because that person, as you stated, really cannot be killed but conversely they won't be able to do anything offensively. Ice comet works when there is limited LoS because it also knocks them down. And ... yes, yes, I know ... Ice Comet can be blocked. Well sorry to break it to you forum people, 90% of people still panic and don't block it.
- While I am not unkillable, I am very hard to kill. Of my 9 abilities (one is double slotted) only 2 are purely for offense. I have breath of life, harness magicka, mist form, retreating manuevers, the Templar magic recovery circle thingy, and inner light. The only non ult offense I have is pokey sticks, radiant oppression and structured entropy (double slotted) to make them hit harder but really for the 8% health bonus. Really that's for defense in a way too. Throw in immovable potions that give me health and magicka back and I'll frequently be the last person alive in a keep.

Here is what I'm saying. Very, very few people are virtually unkillable if you have offensive gear and strong ultimates like soul assault. If someone can survive those then they cannot hurt you and should be ignored. That said, if you are not gearing yourself for offense then you really cannot complain about unkillable players because most of them are.

TLDR: Get your offensive potential from gear and your defense from abilities instead of vice versa.

Note: I do this in heavy armor 5-1-1. With the Templar circle thingy active my resists are both 30k, health (in PVP) 27K, magic 49K, 3.4K spell power (in combat) and my crit resist is above 1000 which is more than enough via CP. I'm not squishy.

davey1107

@BoxFoxx After I wrote that last post I ran into some info on changes they're looking at for a future update...probably this would drop w Morrowind. Most notable is the removal of the ability cost reduction passives in the CP tree. Regen is also being reduced from 25% to 15% when fully invested in those two passives. (As always,these are initial considerations before testing).

The devs have said one of their top priorities is returning resource management to the game. When I read this, I considered that this is a leading factor in invincible builds - they can keep all of their wards and buffs up while running continual heals and damage abilities. Previously, the game played in a way that you used mostly weaker, cheaper abilities, then your best hits and shields sparingly so you didn't run out of resources. That started to shift after Imperial City, and now most meta builds are bars full of the most expensive and powerful stuff. If abilities cost more and regen slows down, that'll probably start to return the classes to their original intended balance...and it'll definitely put a DK running around a tree with ten people smacking them into a tight spot, lol.

There will probably be a lot for other changes if they're going to shift the game this dramatically. It'll be interesting to see what goes up on the PTS next month. For us Nightblades I'm optimistic. What the CP tree has given everyone this last year is better burst damage and high resource regen. NBs were designed to have that all along...in a way the other classes have all been catching up to our strengths while retaining their advantages over our weaknesses. I'm not saying NBs need a big buff or that they're not competitive...just that the CPs have pulled the classes too close together. Anyway, based on what I'm seeing I am definitely expecting my pvp bars to adopt a setup closer to my pve bars...siphoning attacks will almost certainly make a comeback, lol.

And I agree with your larger point: it would be very useful if pvp mechanics and pve mechanics started to move apart in some ways. As content has gotten harder in pve, it's been really annoying to be working on a trial then to get hit with a life changing nerf because of pvp. Alcast is a far better and more knowledgeable player than me...when he says no stam build is viable for trials, I believe him. I think that is entirely because of the way stam builds have been honed for pvp balance.

t3hdubzy

Lol at these builds being weak when they still kill people, and will destroy you 1v1 because a lot of dps are glass cannons.


My orc dk has like 43k stam without draugr hulk, and i can still get up to 4k wpn dmg buffed and crit my ult for 15k plus

And im absolutely terrible at tanking but can still rustle some jimmies.

Sureshawt

Most of this imbalance revolves around the CP system. Play on the non-CP campaign and you will see the difference.

While there are good players that make use of LOS etc.to survive against groups you will not see any player standing in the open and endlessly survive being pounded by 10+ players like the CP campaign. In fact, most cannot even tank 5+ players for any length of time with the exception of a few MagSorcs with their shield stacking but even that ends in a reasonable amount of time or they streak away.

Also siege actually hurts and you wont see players standing in the open and tanking multiple siege shots with ease.

1vX exists but takes more skill and zero mistakes by you or some mistakes by your opponents to pull it off.

Overall I've found Non-CP to be much more enjoyable and balanced. I've also learned how much sloppy play the CP system let me get away with so you will have to manage your resources/moves/skill rotation more skillfully

The hard truth is that the CP system needs an across the board reduction in effectiveness by at least 50% and some need complete removal/replacement.

BoxFoxx

@davey1107 I hope the changes aren't too dramatic. I hope the cost of abilities CP passives stay, they're extremely helpful. Personally I feel it's just as simple as limiting healing in PvP along with stat caps while in Cyrodiil. That's the single most outstanding thing I've noticed that makes the gameplay out of balance. I don't like the idea of constantly moving things around, adding and taking away, nerfing and buffing.

Sureshawt wrote: »

Most of this imbalance revolves around the CP system. Play on the non-CP campaign and you will see the difference.

While there are good players that make use of LOS etc.to survive against groups you will not see any player standing in the open and endlessly survive being pounded by 10+ players like the CP campaign. In fact, most cannot even tank 5+ players for any length of time with the exception of a few MagSorcs with their shield stacking but even that ends in a reasonable amount of time or they streak away.

Also siege actually hurts and you wont see players standing in the open and tanking multiple siege shots with ease.

1vX exists but takes more skill and zero mistakes by you or some mistakes by your opponents to pull it off.

Overall I've found Non-CP to be much more enjoyable and balanced. I've also learned how much sloppy play the CP system let me get away with so you will have to manage your resources/moves/skill rotation more skillfully

The hard truth is that the CP system needs an across the board reduction in effectiveness by at least 50% and some need complete removal/replacement.

You're not the first to mention going to Azuras Star. Hopefully it becomes more populated with people getting sick of Scourge.

I don't want the CP system to take a hit. The boost in effectiveness helps a ton in dungeons and trials. If they want to limit CP effectiveness strictly in PvP, Scourge in particular, then so be it. More desirably a new campaign midway between AZ and Scourge with stat caps and cool down times receiving heals.

Jsmalls

Krist wrote: »

Late on the thread but here is my 2 cents.

I am not an uber PvP'er, and while some may say that can discount me, it means I am more like the majority of players in Cyrodiil, maybe slightly above average.

I do not have a problem with the "tank builds" that cannot be killed easy. They do trade off the ability to make kills. In the end, they do not seem able to kill anyone themselves. It really IS a trade off. You may not like them, I don't, but it is a build that DOES NOT need nerfing. Just because we do not like something does not mean the devs have to step in. I will fight them for a moment until I see there have endless blocks/shields/heals, and then leave them alone. If you feel a need to chase these guys that cannot hurt a fly, then go for it, but dont blame them.

I remember one was sieging solo, so I attacked him. Did little damage. I finally just burned his siege. He then focused on me, attacked me......and he did no more damage to me than I did to him, and I was all dps! Another player came up and we both attacked and did little damage, but again, he could not harm us. Eventually he was killed when a big group showed up.

My point though is this. Why is it okay to have these glass cannons but not okay to have these rubber weapon tanks? I dont think there really is more and more of them, but it is the same ones you are running into over and over, with just enough to be a pain in the rear, and to make it appear there are more.

In their defense, it is a valid build, especially with a group. They lure inexperienced players into breaking from a group fight, weakening their group.

Boring? Yes. Needs to be "fixed'? No.

As has been shown above, there are just some that are excellent and get kills as well, but that is just very experienced players. You dont dev that, you accept it. THEY are not near as common, but do exist.

I don't support PvP tanks, but I can agree with your mindset.

The problem is when those extremely tanky players are also the groups healers (aka Magplar). And when the group stacks 2-4 of these players, you have borderline no chance of taking said group down. You can't focus the healers because they are perma blocking/reactive/Malubeth/heavy wearing tanks, and you can't ignore them because they will keep the entire group alive. In my opinion this is when invincible tank builds become a problem.

Radburn

Its quite possible. More people have more access to more sets leading to the possibility there are more tank builds out there.

Whether it's good or bad is subjective. If you asked my opinion, they're fine because you trade off offense for defense. I would hate to see Cyrodiil turn into the gankfest it was when TTK was < 1 second and by removing these sets or making them ineffective would do just that.

Some players want to feel the rush of ganking others, they love the thrill. Others get a rush from being ambushed by gankers and not only surviving but watching them give up - there's some satisfaction in denying gankers a kill.

If you build for burst and come across someone you can't kill tip your hat, let them know they have a sick build and go on your way looking for your next victim/soft target.

Sureshawt

BoxFoxx wrote: »

@davey1107 I hope the changes aren't too dramatic. I hope the cost of abilities CP passives stay, they're extremely helpful. Personally I feel it's just as simple as limiting healing in PvP along with stat caps while in Cyrodiil. That's the single most outstanding thing I've noticed that makes the gameplay out of balance. I don't like the idea of constantly moving things around, adding and taking away, nerfing and buffing.

Sureshawt wrote: »

Most of this imbalance revolves around the CP system. Play on the non-CP campaign and you will see the difference.

While there are good players that make use of LOS etc.to survive against groups you will not see any player standing in the open and endlessly survive being pounded by 10+ players like the CP campaign. In fact, most cannot even tank 5+ players for any length of time with the exception of a few MagSorcs with their shield stacking but even that ends in a reasonable amount of time or they streak away.

Also siege actually hurts and you wont see players standing in the open and tanking multiple siege shots with ease.

1vX exists but takes more skill and zero mistakes by you or some mistakes by your opponents to pull it off.

Overall I've found Non-CP to be much more enjoyable and balanced. I've also learned how much sloppy play the CP system let me get away with so you will have to manage your resources/moves/skill rotation more skillfully

The hard truth is that the CP system needs an across the board reduction in effectiveness by at least 50% and some need complete removal/replacement.

You're not the first to mention going to Azuras Star. Hopefully it becomes more populated with people getting sick of Scourge.

I don't want the CP system to take a hit. The boost in effectiveness helps a ton in dungeons and trials. If they want to limit CP effectiveness strictly in PvP, Scourge in particular, then so be it. More desirably a new campaign midway between AZ and Scourge with stat caps and cool down times receiving heals.

I guess we could use some more population in Azuras Star but hopefully not to many as it is nice having enough for largecale and smallscale and everything in between but little to no lag and no queues.

I think it would be fine to leave CP system intact for PvE.

Lokey0024

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

I understand exactly what you are all saying. If you want to kill one of these guys you need a few things on top of just the gear traits I mentioned.

- You need to run an ultimate other than the destro ult. Everyone runs the destro ult. Good players know how to avoid it. Uber tanks eat it up. Personally I use soul assault if I have line of sight into a radiant oppression. 99% of players cannot survive this. If they can, just move along because that person, as you stated, really cannot be killed but conversely they won't be able to do anything offensively. Ice comet works when there is limited LoS because it also knocks them down. And ... yes, yes, I know ... Ice Comet can be blocked. Well sorry to break it to you forum people, 90% of people still panic and don't block it.
- While I am not unkillable, I am very hard to kill. Of my 9 abilities (one is double slotted) only 2 are purely for offense. I have breath of life, harness magicka, mist form, retreating manuevers, the Templar magic recovery circle thingy, and inner light. The only non ult offense I have is pokey sticks, radiant oppression and structured entropy (double slotted) to make them hit harder but really for the 8% health bonus. Really that's for defense in a way too. Throw in immovable potions that give me health and magicka back and I'll frequently be the last person alive in a keep.

Here is what I'm saying. Very, very few people are virtually unkillable if you have offensive gear and strong ultimates like soul assault. If someone can survive those then they cannot hurt you and should be ignored. That said, if you are not gearing yourself for offense then you really cannot complain about unkillable players because most of them are.

TLDR: Get your offensive potential from gear and your defense from abilities instead of vice versa.

Note: I do this in heavy armor 5-1-1. With the Templar circle thingy active my resists are both 30k, health (in PVP) 27K, magic 49K, 3.4K spell power (in combat) and my crit resist is above 1000 which is more than enough via CP. I'm not squishy.

This how retardedly OP BoL is. With those defensive stats you should be taking heavy damage that no class but templar can survive. And im almost positive you have 3 or 4 minions running around you dividing the damage.

Im telling you impen is only worthwhile investment in pvp.

FloppyTouch

Lokey0024 wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

I understand exactly what you are all saying. If you want to kill one of these guys you need a few things on top of just the gear traits I mentioned.

- You need to run an ultimate other than the destro ult. Everyone runs the destro ult. Good players know how to avoid it. Uber tanks eat it up. Personally I use soul assault if I have line of sight into a radiant oppression. 99% of players cannot survive this. If they can, just move along because that person, as you stated, really cannot be killed but conversely they won't be able to do anything offensively. Ice comet works when there is limited LoS because it also knocks them down. And ... yes, yes, I know ... Ice Comet can be blocked. Well sorry to break it to you forum people, 90% of people still panic and don't block it.
- While I am not unkillable, I am very hard to kill. Of my 9 abilities (one is double slotted) only 2 are purely for offense. I have breath of life, harness magicka, mist form, retreating manuevers, the Templar magic recovery circle thingy, and inner light. The only non ult offense I have is pokey sticks, radiant oppression and structured entropy (double slotted) to make them hit harder but really for the 8% health bonus. Really that's for defense in a way too. Throw in immovable potions that give me health and magicka back and I'll frequently be the last person alive in a keep.

Here is what I'm saying. Very, very few people are virtually unkillable if you have offensive gear and strong ultimates like soul assault. If someone can survive those then they cannot hurt you and should be ignored. That said, if you are not gearing yourself for offense then you really cannot complain about unkillable players because most of them are.

TLDR: Get your offensive potential from gear and your defense from abilities instead of vice versa.

Note: I do this in heavy armor 5-1-1. With the Templar circle thingy active my resists are both 30k, health (in PVP) 27K, magic 49K, 3.4K spell power (in combat) and my crit resist is above 1000 which is more than enough via CP. I'm not squishy.

This how retardedly OP BoL is. With those defensive stats you should be taking heavy damage that no class but templar can survive. And im almost positive you have 3 or 4 minions running around you dividing the damage.

Im telling you impen is only worthwhile investment in pvp.

I agree impen is super strong in pvp but I still run full sturdy XD

Torbschka

BoxFoxx wrote: »

Torbschka wrote: »

BoxFoxx wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

BoxFoxx wrote: »

...and if you're getting smacked by 6 guys CatchMeTrolling you SHOULD die. Exactly my point that you're missing. Those six guys should be pissed that they can't kill one.

The problem is: 6 People that know what they´re doing will kill a sorc quickly. Very quickly. If they can´t it´s a user error.

So what do you think those guys should be angry about?

A 6 on 1 scenario should be a quick kill for ANYONE!

How hard is that to understand?

How hard is it to understand, that a 6v1 is a fast kill, as long as the 6 people know what zhey are doing.

Let me fighten vs 6 potatoes ans I kill them in 30 seconds - thats how it should be.

Listen bro, even in a 2v1 I have 0 chance if the guys are good and will die, ur Mimi is just an excuse for missing game knowledge...

You're not listening to the whole conversation here man, just like many of you being so quick to respond.

The topic is not about good players versus bad players. The topic is about certain players being nearly invincible where even 6 good players have difficulty killing them, if at all.

Well, u did write: "6 player should kill ANYONE".

Cant see where u did the difference between good and bad ones, was exlusively responding to that part because I disagree.

BoxFoxx

Torbschka wrote: »

BoxFoxx wrote: »

Torbschka wrote: »

BoxFoxx wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

BoxFoxx wrote: »

...and if you're getting smacked by 6 guys CatchMeTrolling you SHOULD die. Exactly my point that you're missing. Those six guys should be pissed that they can't kill one.

The problem is: 6 People that know what they´re doing will kill a sorc quickly. Very quickly. If they can´t it´s a user error.

So what do you think those guys should be angry about?

A 6 on 1 scenario should be a quick kill for ANYONE!

How hard is that to understand?

How hard is it to understand, that a 6v1 is a fast kill, as long as the 6 people know what zhey are doing.

Let me fighten vs 6 potatoes ans I kill them in 30 seconds - thats how it should be.

Listen bro, even in a 2v1 I have 0 chance if the guys are good and will die, ur Mimi is just an excuse for missing game knowledge...

You're not listening to the whole conversation here man, just like many of you being so quick to respond.

The topic is not about good players versus bad players. The topic is about certain players being nearly invincible where even 6 good players have difficulty killing them, if at all.

Well, u did write: "6 player should kill ANYONE".

Cant see where u did the difference between good and bad ones, was exlusively responding to that part because I disagree.

...and I went into further detail about it, clarifying what I meant in the rest of the thread.

QuebraRegra

the result of extremely poor attempts at balance changes since the softcap removal...

yer underlying problem is the power creep, with the nerfs (dmg nerf, etc.) creating the problems we have now. No worries, everyone said that CP was really inconsequential remember? Must be a learn 2 play problem :P