Ebon or Plague Doctor?

Lynx7386

Does plague doctor give more health than green pact?

Magdalina

pizzaow wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Does that work on Chudan ad on last boss fight (in vet hm)? Pretty sure I've gotten rekt there through Spell Wall before.

I've never tried Spell Wall, but I can confirm that reflective scales work on conjured chudan during the last boss fight too (ran it last night, vet but not hm)... I forgot and ate some poison the first time, but reflected the second spit. The tooltip seems to be the same between spell wall and reflective scales, so I'd assume it was at least designed to reflect (especially if it reflects correctly during the regular chudan boss fight). Although, it could be an additional hard-mode only mechanic...

Hmm. I'll have to try that (again) I guess. Thanks for the info.

Gargath

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Does plague doctor give more health than green pact?

I have 35k hp with Green Pact and tri-stat food without spending a single health point into Attributes.
All attribute points into Stamina (27k).
With 2-nd set crafted Torug's Pact supporting my lesser version of Master Sword.

To me Green Pact is a great set for tank.
My stats:

Magdalina

On side note, no, Green Pact most certainly gives less health than Plague Doctor. That health regen can actually be really useful to some builds though.

Savos_Saren

@Gargath

Hey bud! IIRC- you and I had a long conversation about perfecting a build around the Master's Sword. Did you ever try 5 Knight's Errant, 5 Torug, and 1 Troll King (or Sentinel)?

I'd imagine it'd have heals for daaaaaaaaaays.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

Ebon you would be surprised how many DPS need that extra 1k health cause they can't be bothered to put anything into health.

Gordon906

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Ebon you would be surprised how many DPS need that extra 1k health cause they can't be bothered to put anything into health.

Tell me about it, any stories will be appreciated

ifDoubtNerfIt

Gargath wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Does plague doctor give more health than green pact?

To me Green Pact is a great set for tank.

To you, not to your group, for your group, it's like you're wearing nothing. Gotta blow those horns :P
btw. are you using Powerful Assault by any chance as the off-set ?

Gordon906 wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Ebon you would be surprised how many DPS need that extra 1k health cause they can't be bothered to put anything into health.

Tell me about it, any stories will be appreciated

Yeah, sadly, many dps'es go with 16.5k hp and that's really not enough. The meta is really broken when think about it
Especially on Rakkhat, can't tell you how many times we wiped because the tank hadn't Ebon on him.
Or how many times I seen the tank trying to tank rakkhat in a corner and completly ignoring the lunar platforms.

Trust me, if you want to see how someone plays, and if someone is good, go with them on Rakkhat :P

Duiwel

This is lol because my Templar tank uses both

Flameheart

For PvE tanking Ebon any day. Being a meatshield with 40k hp is pretty useless in PvE, 30k is absolutely enough. You can easily get there with Ebon buff and prismatic defence glyphs. What you need as a tank is stamina and magicka for the usual blocking and - even more important - frequently using tank and support abilities (heroic slash for ultireg, Evade for ultireg in combination with Tavas, DK shield, chains, bubbles etc.)

Asardes

I use 5 Ebon 5 Tava 2 Bloodspawn or 2 Lord Warden on my DK tank. 1L/1M/5H, divines on the small armor pieces, infused on the big ones and shield, prismatic defense on everything, defending weapons. He has 30.5K spell resistance and 27K physical resistance, almost 28K health and i've found it's enough for PvE content. I only buff my magicka and magicka recovery, to 18.3K and 1.5K respectively, using a drink. I have full stamina build, which amounts to about 24K stamina. One-shots will be one-shots even with 50K health if you don't block or dodge the respective mechanics. Having stamina to dodge and bash or magicka to shield/root/cc/chain pull enemies is way more important than having loads of health. In fact I die for lack or resources for the above way more frequently than I die for not having enough health to survive attaks. I slot Barrier on the front bar for the passive that boosts my magicka recovery even more, and for situations where people take a lot of damage in a short time, but I usually spend my ultimate using the warhorn on the back bar. I can generate enough ultimate to use that every 45-50s. If the healer also uses it there's basically 100% stat buff uptime during boss fights. Ebon is 1K health, and warhorn stat boost is another 1.3K health buff on average for DDs and healers. With the undaunted passives, even the squishiest ones still sit at 18-19K health during those fights. So the health buff rom Ebon and high warhorn uptime from the ultimate generation (Tava, Bloodspawn, heroic slash, earthen heart class abilities) are key to group survival in the hardest fights. Being a punching bag with low resources and group utility is just bad.

Dragonnord

Anyone uses Alkosh on tank builds?

ifDoubtNerfIt

CarbonX wrote: »

Anyone uses Alkosh on tank builds?

As offset, almost every tank that does Trials, both offtank and main tank

In dungeons, you can also use Powerful Assault, Tava's, Sanctuary or <insert group buff set here> with Ebon

Cronopoly

I use both as a DK Shield Tank and do all Vet dungeons with ease and routinely the Ebon extra health + the Igneous shields that i provide are scaled by my health and this saves a squishy that would have died otherwise. Most times their health dropping is not a factor at all. I put 14k - 18K shields on everyone repeatedly.

I have 2K+ Mag Recovery and can spam Igneous every 3 - 6 seconds or for a known Boss mechanical, I'll go nuts and spam it every second with Mag Pot to shield us through a known High Damage spike.

I've relegated myself to teaching other 4man dungeon mechanics to new players as that's what this spec really shines at, group survival at all costs through mad odds. If someone pulls another 15 adds by mistake no problem. We slog through it.

Most times my healers can go 95% DPS unless someone gets out of position, or Boss mechanics dictate it. Still experimenting with guard, as most times it's not needed, and I don't have room to double bar it. #Give3rdSkillBartoDKasSorcsDontNeedIt

Yes you can have your cake.

P.S. My best time ever was recently when I got lucky enough to join a dungeon finder team of (3) 1100+cp DPS players. Holy Moly, they asked me to just Taunt and shield them as needed. I've never seen blinding DPS like that where everyone used...Rotations. I know I need to get out of 4mans more and respec for Trials

Dragonnord

ifDoubtNerfIt wrote: »

CarbonX wrote: »

Anyone uses Alkosh on tank builds?

As offset, almost every tank that does Trials, both offtank and main tank

In dungeons, you can also use Powerful Assault, Tava's, Sanctuary or <insert group buff set here> with Ebon

Well, many tanks that do Trials responded to the OP and, even when they named they're Dungeons and Trials builds, none named Alkosh.

Asardes

Taking into account the current DPS meta, meaning full magicka or at most one or two stamina DDs especially in trials Alkosh is not that useful. Meaning mobs and bosses have 18200 resistance from which you subtract:
- 5160 from sharpened weapons
- 4884 Concentration LA passive
- 5280 Major breach/fracture from Elemental Drain (healer) or Pierce Armor (tank)
- 1320 Minor breach/fracture from Power of the Light (healer)
- 1200 crusher enchantment from tank/healer
Which give a total of 17884, leaving just 356 resistance to be overcome by other means, meaning only a ~0.5% DPS increase from any Alkosh procs removing the remaining mitigation. In my opinion Alkosh is mostly useless unless you run a stamina heavy trial group, which you wouldn't anyway if you cared about score.

paulsimonps

Asardes wrote: »

Taking into account the current DPS meta, meaning full magicka or at most one or two stamina DDs especially in trials Alkosh is not that useful. Meaning mobs and bosses have 18200 resistance from which you subtract:
- 5160 from sharpened weapons
- 4884 Concentration LA passive
- 5280 Major breach/fracture from Elemental Drain (healer) or Pierce Armor (tank)
- 1320 Minor breach/fracture from Power of the Light (healer)
- 1200 crusher enchantment from tank/healer
Which give a total of 17884, leaving just 356 resistance to be overcome by other means, meaning only a ~0.5% DPS increase from any Alkosh procs removing the remaining mitigation. In my opinion Alkosh is mostly useless unless you run a stamina heavy trial group, which you wouldn't anyway if you cared about score.

The problem with your math is that unless your tank is running Infused+5p Torug's Pact you will not have 100% uptime on Crusher and its not easy to get full uptime on Power of the light either seeing as its sometime that has to be done every 6s and in some situations healer have to, you know, heal. So Alkosh in combination with all of things you listed gives you a much higher up time on the buffs/debuffs necessary to bring the boss to 0 Resistance. Another thing is that the Alkosh if aimed right and used properly can hit multiple enemies. So if the bosses have adds or during trash pulls you can give out a large debuff. PotL will not be on all enemies and neither will crusher, but a good tank can hit a lot of targets with a well placed Alkosh.

Now if you had a pure 100% magicka DPS group and you only cared about the DPS on the bosses themselves then I would say let your main tank go with Ebon and Torugs and you would have 100% uptime, or close to it at least, on Crusher and the crusher would give around 2,400 in debuff, and btw gold Cp 160 crusher gives default 1622 debuff not 1200. Problem is that the crusher has a 10s cooldown and only a 5s duration. So unless you have Infused+Torugs you will not have a good uptime on it. Obviously you still want to run crusher cause in combination with Alkosh you get a good combined uptime on these debuffs.

Dark_Aether

Dunmer Templar here, got bored with dps and I've been trying tanking in Blood Spawn, Tava's and Green Pact. I'm sitting at 35k HP, 10k mag and 20k stam (only CP245) with 2k stam regen, 1k hp and mag. I have Warhorn and bone shield up all day. I got in some pretty bad groups and was still able to get them back up as boss beat on me because they kept dying standing in red.

Gordon906

Dark_Aether wrote: »

Dunmer Templar here, got bored with dps and I've been trying tanking in Blood Spawn, Tava's and Green Pact. I'm sitting at 35k HP, 10k mag and 20k stam (only CP245) with 2k stam regen, 1k hp and mag. I have Warhorn and bone shield up all day. I got in some pretty bad groups and was still able to get them back up as boss beat on me because they kept dying standing in red.

Templars don't make very good stam tank and sustaining stamina can be a pain. Especially when you don't get the resource benefit from DK ult passives.

Gargath

jaburns wrote: »

@Gargath

Hey bud! IIRC- you and I had a long conversation about perfecting a build around the Master's Sword. Did you ever try 5 Knight's Errant, 5 Torug, and 1 Troll King (or Sentinel)?

I'd imagine it'd have heals for daaaaaaaaaays.

Hey:) Unfortunately I was unlucky with RNG and could not get any good Knight's Errant parts so I gave up on doing Blackheart Haven. Troll King was a good idea though, few tens of health more on the sword... Maybe one day I'll return to farm that dungeon .

@ifDoubtNerfIt
Have you ever tried Gren Pact before your comment? Green Pact offers good survivability and - with master sword - great support for healer, because healer can focus more on DDs. With every taunt I heal myself. I also give shielding every several seconds and shielding ultimate from DK whenever possible. Also mind that Green Pact let use ALL attribute points in either stamina or magicka - no need to put anything into health and health is still very high (35k).
Imho sets such as Ebon are good for trials but not the dungeons. Personally I don't see much advantage from Ebon when I go as DD. I go there prepared for action and buffed properly. Don't expect others to increase my main stats. In dungeons people should be more of less self-sufficient. DDs with at least 19k hp and some self healing ability. If you need to complain, do it only when tank does not taunt the boss or healer does not heal you. Not when they don't offer +1k hp from Ebon. Expect more from yourself.
My 50cents.

Dark_Aether

Gordon906 wrote: »

Dark_Aether wrote: »

Dunmer Templar here, got bored with dps and I've been trying tanking in Blood Spawn, Tava's and Green Pact. I'm sitting at 35k HP, 10k mag and 20k stam (only CP245) with 2k stam regen, 1k hp and mag. I have Warhorn and bone shield up all day. I got in some pretty bad groups and was still able to get them back up as boss beat on me because they kept dying standing in red.

Templars don't make very good stam tank and sustaining stamina can be a pain. Especially when you don't get the resource benefit from DK ult passives.

Quite the opposite, I have infinite sustain. A little something called repentance for trash mobs and heavy attacks on bosses.

Dr_Ganknstein

Ebon sucks. Wow you give your group an extra 1k health.. big whoop. I beat Chudan on vet solo on my blazing shield tank.

IronCrystal

Powerful Assault and Alkosh with Bloodspawn can tank any dungeon and is common in vet trials.

Wrecking_Blow_Spam

Icky wrote: »

Ebon sucks. Wow you give your group an extra 1k health.. big whoop. I beat Chudan on vet solo on my blazing shield tank.

Find that hard to believe and ebon especially in trails does anything but suck.

paulsimonps

Icky wrote: »

Ebon sucks. Wow you give your group an extra 1k health.. big whoop. I beat Chudan on vet solo on my blazing shield tank.

Have you tanked a trial as your Blazeplar? Have you tanked a veteran trial as one? Done vHRC HM? Cause if you had I don't think you would be saying Ebon sucks. Maybe try something a bit harder than Vet trial before speaking about gear?

Qyrk

Icky wrote: »

Ebon sucks. Wow you give your group an extra 1k health.. big whoop. I beat Chudan on vet solo on my blazing shield tank.

Oh my Vet RoM....big whoop. Try tanking like the big boys and you'll soon praising Ebon....

Asardes

paulsimonps wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

Taking into account the current DPS meta, meaning full magicka or at most one or two stamina DDs especially in trials Alkosh is not that useful. Meaning mobs and bosses have 18200 resistance from which you subtract:
- 5160 from sharpened weapons
- 4884 Concentration LA passive
- 5280 Major breach/fracture from Elemental Drain (healer) or Pierce Armor (tank)
- 1320 Minor breach/fracture from Power of the Light (healer)
- 1200 crusher enchantment from tank/healer
Which give a total of 17884, leaving just 356 resistance to be overcome by other means, meaning only a ~0.5% DPS increase from any Alkosh procs removing the remaining mitigation. In my opinion Alkosh is mostly useless unless you run a stamina heavy trial group, which you wouldn't anyway if you cared about score.

The problem with your math is that unless your tank is running Infused+5p Torug's Pact you will not have 100% uptime on Crusher and its not easy to get full uptime on Power of the light either seeing as its sometime that has to be done every 6s and in some situations healer have to, you know, heal. So Alkosh in combination with all of things you listed gives you a much higher up time on the buffs/debuffs necessary to bring the boss to 0 Resistance. Another thing is that the Alkosh if aimed right and used properly can hit multiple enemies. So if the bosses have adds or during trash pulls you can give out a large debuff. PotL will not be on all enemies and neither will crusher, but a good tank can hit a lot of targets with a well placed Alkosh.

Now if you had a pure 100% magicka DPS group and you only cared about the DPS on the bosses themselves then I would say let your main tank go with Ebon and Torugs and you would have 100% uptime, or close to it at least, on Crusher and the crusher would give around 2,400 in debuff, and btw gold Cp 160 crusher gives default 1622 debuff not 1200. Problem is that the crusher has a 10s cooldown and only a 5s duration. So unless you have Infused+Torugs you will not have a good uptime on it. Obviously you still want to run crusher cause in combination with Alkosh you get a good combined uptime on these debuffs.

Yep, I checked when I got home. The values I found on the Internet were outdated, as the enchant got buffed. And about the uptime I was not relying merely on the tank. Normally trial groups have 2 healers, one of which is running SPC+WC, the other one SPC+IA. IA requires a fully charged heavy attack to proc. That attack also has the potential to proc the enchantment on the respective staff. So you have 2 people applying the debuff, on the boss, probably at different times. There's not complete overlap, so the uptime is higher. Alkosh has a hidden cooldown, because synergies themsleves have cooldowns. It's also difficult to keep that up. The advantage it that it allso adds a DoT and debuffs multiple targets. One disadvantage for the tank is that it brings no useful buffs for himself because it's a DD set. It's also a medium set and it may be difficult to match it with other tanking sets. Running Powerful Assault with Alkosh is also out of the question on a main tank because both are medium sets and medium armor has no passives useful for a tank. You can have a melee DD running both to buff and debuff and off-tank some of the adds in some situations, but that may be not justified from an overall survivability and group DPS.

Vildebill

He complained about 30k health? My tank got 25k and I have zero problems surviving. Sounds like the issue is something completely different health if you keep dying.

Ebon is way superior for group content than plague doctor. Plague doctor is for niche builds like blazplars or DK shield tanks.

Enslaved

Gordon906 wrote: »

I have had bad experience with ebon armory after spending weeks farming it. One group in the veteran argonian ruin dugeon was compalining about my 30k health because the poison attacks in chudan keeps killing me. Should I go plague doctor instead of ebon so I have 5k more health since people at ungreatful about me giving them extra health? Wearing the ebon really man my stats look bad so should i switch?

No. Change group, go Ebon.

Asardes

Since I started using Ebon group deaths have been reduced drastically in dungeons. I have been able to pull no death runs in IC dungeons on most pledges run with guild mates on a regular basis and almost every run in non-DLC dungeons is no death run. Two days ago I finally decided to run the SotH dungeons on purpose for no death runs in order to finally get those achievements and did so on first attempt, on consecutive runs, within an hour; Ebon was unquestionably a part of that. That 1K health does matter a lot, potentially saving people from one shots that can't be healed trough, especially those stamina DDs running 7 medium that have just 16-16.5K HP. In trials it matters even more since each death does decrease the overall group score and can even lead to a wipe if it's the healer or even one of the DDs during the execute phase. So Ebon is required on a tank, be it be for 4 man or 12 man content.