Fungal Grotto 2 Struggle

VaxtinTheWolf

Aquanova wrote: »

I thought this post was about the boss with the three spiders which ( of the last couple of weeks ) seems to position herself next to the ledge and then falls off and resets the fight.

She did that when we got her to 50k health

@Aquanova To prefent this, tank has to abuse her set range by falling back to force her to move away from that cliff.

oicero

I love reading this PUG stories. These stories chuckles me alot.
Yes I know it's pain in the ass when doing it but after a while it just makes you laugh.

I have a couple of those.

ICP PUG. One 600+ tagged as tank+healer+dps with 17k hp and the second we TPed in dungeon, he typed "I'm here for bla bla but I can't tank the boss." and the other dps reacted "Then why the *** you tagged as tank?". We got no answer so we kicked him away.

Another PUG at Planar Inhibitor... It's almost pain in the ass as normal you know.
And the tank started to explain destroy the rifts when your screen goes GREY". Thanks to one of us does nothing and mobs spawns more and more... So we wipe... We asked him if you can understand us and if he can reads tank's infos". He said yes.
Ok another try... Of course his screen gone grey again and another wipe.

Thanks to him he chose to rez at wayshrine... (Doh.. right?) We started right away he was locked out and we did it easily w/o him.

Another thing I qq about people underestimate some normal dungeons especially dlc ones are quite hard for newcomers, if you don't know the mechanics. And you ask if he/she knows the mechanics? What you get an answer is "This is normal bro..."
No ty...

No matter what it's a lot fun with PUGs. Because with a good group you can do any dungeon w/o any struggle. But with a PUG... Oh my, it's full of surprises with high cp and just do "Regeneration" not even "Mutagen"

Merlin13KAGL

Eisenhovver wrote: »

This is what skyreach has done to the game.

Yes and no. There were people that maxed their characters the hard way before and still didn't know how to play the class/role.

You should have the option of starting at 50, if you've already maxed another character in that class. Dupe the skills/morphs available and go from there.

doggie wrote: »

I was in veteran Blackheart Haven today on my Tank, and you know you're in trouble when the first trash group takes minutes to kill.

Funny part is one of the "DPS" left first. I did the math on one of the single target bosses and the total team dps was less than 15k.

Once you're experienced, you (and your group) have a pretty good idea if the dungeon is doable or not much earlier on than the end boss.

You had that gut feeling, but gave them a chance anyway. Kudos to you for that (masochist ) 15k group DPS isn't going to be enough for much of anything, considering you can hit 4-8k just spamming heavy attacks on most builds.

Draqone wrote: »

doggie wrote: »

Maybe they need to introduce some check, like kill a 1m HP dummy in less than 1 minute, before they could sign up as DPS in veteran?

That's actually an amazing idea.

Something like an Undaunted quest where they send you to kill a an Evil Totem Of An Utterly Evil Otter that has 1 mil HP and doesn't fight back.

If you manage to kill it you can sign up for normal Dungeons, if you manage to kill it <1 min you can sign up as a DPS for vets.

@Draqone , @doggie , I think you're onto something here. I'd like to expand on it though.

Some kind of Gauntlet that gets you 'certified,' so to speak in different aspects. It should be used to improve one's skills, but sadly would be used to exclude otherwise capable people that may have difficulty in one area or another.

Interesting thing is, the 4 man dungeon progression used to be this thing. Scaling and 'normal' versions of what used to be Vet only dungeons have lessened the worth of some of these achievements.

*For those that chime in and say "Flawless Conqueror, etc for this, there is a lot of grey area between full Level 3 nOOb and those extremes. The idea above is to help with that grey area.

malicia wrote: »

Stonemill wrote: »

... I think there's just a kind of unspoken rule that when you roll into Vet dungeons most folks should kinda have it together at that point and maybe the game does a poor job explaining that.

I agree. It is a bit silly of the game to allow me into vSO when I haven't even completed nSO. I feel that having completed a dungeon on normal should be a basic requirement for doing vet mode. It wouldn't solve the problem, but it would help a bit. Even better would have been if you had to do all the normal mode dungeons in a zone before being allowed to do vet mode.

Again, sound in principle, but still no guarantee of success.

disintegr8 wrote: »

I agree that the game does not teach anyone how to play and never has, at least not on console. I'd also like to see that everyone can manage a dungeon in normal mode before they run it in vet mode. Sounds like the OP was running with people who may not have even done FG2 in normal mode.

Tasear wrote: »

1) DPS need schools...

3) tank should help DPS add as should healer and focus be on 1. Alot of tanks make this mistake. If DPS is weak everyone got to kill add

Grotto II (formerly Vet Grotto), "chains" lady used to be a dealbreaker for a lot of groups.

Everyone had their own method but there are simpler ways.

OP, you were already doing more than required as a tank, so that was not the issue.

#1 Stay ranged where possible.

#2 If you get the channeled attack, run to opposite exits of the room (lengthwise, not width - it's usually not enough and too much to go around or get snagged on.) Again, OP, not your job to move - plenty of time and room for the other person to break the beam.

#3 Focus one add when someone's chained - whoever gets there first picks the target. This is easy to spot and not the tank's job (bonus points for Pierce Armoring one, but shoudln't be required - some will waste more time spotting which on you marked instead of just picking one.) Soulstrike is just built for this part, even on the healer. It does crazy damage that you can unleash after you've dropped your DoTs. You can even heavy attack while channeling this attack.

@Tasear , respectfully disagree with you on this one. Tank's DPS is usually not going to be enough to make a difference, and his job is to keep the boss away and occupied. (Regarding DPS schools, see "Gauntlet" idea above - and not just DPS need schools, all roles need them.)

#4 Worst case scenario is chains victim still dies - if the remaining DPS rez's quickly, it's still a manageable fight.

#5 Bonus / advanced simple technique: Help DPS the adds when you're the one in chains. Lightning Armor (Sorc) and Grothdar or any set that procs damage when you take damage is wonderful here. (I've self released on more than one occasion with this combo) Add a pet if you need to, just use Command Pet to focus the add(s) - pick the 'one' if you're up, or the familiar will choose for itself if you're chained.

greylox wrote: »

Randomly, has anyone noticed the chains (sword) NOT killing them on vet? Last few times i was in there as long as i had 100% health when the sword hit me I'd get up with just under 2k health, roll away shield up and heal. This was on my pet sorc with just over 20k health.

I was holding block and tapping x the entire time just in case (although I'm sure it does nothing).

@greylox , never seen this not be a one-shot (after they fixed the mechanic where you could actually charge and interrupt the sword). Blocking and 'X' does nothing when your arms are bound. Lucky bug or possibly perfectly timed shield. I wouldn't bank on a repeat though.

xeNNNNN wrote: »

just wondering, is it possible the 7k dps guy was running combat metrics? because honestly, if you dont post the correct DPS report (there are four to choose from) then it wont have shown his full total dps.

Unlikely, even if he was, if he had a 7K parse on any fight in the game, odds are, his DPS was low.

Rez after the chain death, and struggle on, but it's still manageable if your group is willing to listen.

Last thing, for OP: While your exit was kind and courteous, it's not really doing them any favors (if they leave thinking they had no portion of the 'blame.')

If anything, unless you know you are blatantly screwing up or just off your game, leave it neutral. Even in otherwise awesome groups, some days it's just not clicking right, and there is nothing wrong with leaving it at that.

visionality

Dreyfron wrote: »

Khami wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Dreyfron wrote: »

I know this is a noob question, to measure your DPS are you using an addon?

One way would be an addon, ftc is still popular though no longer updated, there're many others though. Combat Metrics is one I'm trying out now to see if it can replace ftc I think.

Another way would be target skeletons they've introduced with Homestead - they tell you the dps you've done after the parse is over(either skele dies or you leave combat). I'd say go for an addon anyway though, that's gonna tell you what skills contributed the most and other useful stuff along with actual number. Plus you don't need a skele dummy for an addon to work

FTC was updated on the 5th.

In Minion it says it was last updated March 2016? Which one is better FTC or Combat metrics do you think?

@Dreyfron: FTC is not updated, but LUI extended is. The addons are very similar, personally I prefer LUI extended (for showing group loot, amongst others).

In general, I would recommend Combat Metrics. It's not only showing your dps/hps, but also the overall group dps/hps numbers, which is helpful to get an estimate of your performance as compared to the rest of the group. Also CM's combat analysis is extremely helpful, showing which of your skills hit how hard in a real fight (and not only in a tooltip) and which of your buffs are up for how long. Imo it's the best addon for every DD working on his skills and rotation.

CultOfMMO

while theres very little anyone can do about people who are mentally challenged with regards to mechanics, this game is in desperate need of a shared dps meter. It's time for the community to learn just how garbage 90% of the player base is, and then proceed from there.

First few months will be rough, but will be healthy in the long run.

WoW had a long history of shared dps meters and in the vast majority of groups, even PUGs, people can pull very similar dps. At most the better players will be pulling 1.5 times, not double the lesser players. Whereas in ESO I can be doing 60-75% of grp dps in 4 man dungeons with 3 dps 1 healer, and 25-40% in normal trials with 9 dps 1 tank 2 healer.

Stonemill

Brrrofski wrote: »

Thing is, even with low DPS, three people can kill one of those adds.

That dungeon is one where you need people who understands mechanics and work together.

Out of interest, what you running on your saptank? It's my favourite thing to do in Pve by far.

I run Tava's bahraha's curse and spawn mothers monster set for trash and bosses with tons of adds. In my opinion swarm mothers is money for a tank without chains. For single target boss fights I've been wearing lord warden. I'm still working on getting my bloodspawn set, one I have that I'll stop using warden. Only thing is I'm still working on is getting my monster sets in heavy with the traits I want so I can have my belt and gloves at light and medium instead. So that's lowering my resistances by a smidge. I'm still getting 28k with shadow barrier up.

Skill wise I'm using S+B on both bars with pierce armor, swallow soul, heroic slash, mystic orb and refreshing path.

Back bar I use inner rage, sap essence, volcanic rune, mirage, and siphoning strikes.

Mystic orb and volcanic rune are kinda my flex skills. I don't see a lot of people using volcanic time but I absolutely love it. The crowd control it adds is great without DK talons. You can also start a fight by throwing it under some mobs and it won't go off for 1.5 seconds so I throw a tune out there refreshing path and mystic orb followed by a mystic orb and some sap essence block weaving and I aggro and gather everything in a nice bundle for everybody. Pesky ranged mobs get grabbed by swarm mothers and then get slowed by bahraha's curse rune or stunned by volcanic and works well.

NB sap tanking revitalized my love for this game. Hands down most fun I've had in 3 years of this game.

Khaos_Bane

There are a lot of very bad players in this game and they get to CP 300 very quickly now. I was in a horrible FG2 group the other day and only got one key because they stood in the bubble. Many people say they understand a boss and they don't.

Just run with a good guild if it becomes to aggravating.

Lynx7386

Fg2 is all about mechanics and dps. If your people can't kill chains or avoid tethers, you won't get past that second boss.

DurzoBlint13

FG2 is one of the vet dungeons I refuse to PUG ever again. It is a nightmare to run with people that try to ignore mechanics, and do not listen even when you try to explain what to do to them.
FTG1 on the other hand, is probably one of the easiest vet dungeons to solo (behind CoA1)

RebornV3x

That 2nd boss in Vet Fungal 2 is a pug stopper thats one dungeon you have to do with guild mates even if you get past that boss with a random group some idiot always walks into the husks aura and ruining stuff

zaria

visionality wrote: »

Dreyfron wrote: »

Khami wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Dreyfron wrote: »

I know this is a noob question, to measure your DPS are you using an addon?

One way would be an addon, ftc is still popular though no longer updated, there're many others though. Combat Metrics is one I'm trying out now to see if it can replace ftc I think.

Another way would be target skeletons they've introduced with Homestead - they tell you the dps you've done after the parse is over(either skele dies or you leave combat). I'd say go for an addon anyway though, that's gonna tell you what skills contributed the most and other useful stuff along with actual number. Plus you don't need a skele dummy for an addon to work

FTC was updated on the 5th.

In Minion it says it was last updated March 2016? Which one is better FTC or Combat metrics do you think?

@Dreyfron: FTC is not updated, but LUI extended is. The addons are very similar, personally I prefer LUI extended (for showing group loot, amongst others).

In general, I would recommend Combat Metrics. It's not only showing your dps/hps, but also the overall group dps/hps numbers, which is helpful to get an estimate of your performance as compared to the rest of the group. Also CM's combat analysis is extremely helpful, showing which of your skills hit how hard in a real fight (and not only in a tooltip) and which of your buffs are up for how long. Imo it's the best addon for every DD working on his skills and rotation.

Yes, I like combat metric, how do you get up the analysis? Has seen people use it.

And the group dps can be scary, either your dps is horrible and you want to kick yourself, or its something worse going on, first time as healer, signed up as dps, we found we had no healer and I was an templar with an random green restoration staff in inventory.
Things got much better except that my dps as healer for the first time had 33% of dps on my heavy attacks and the DoT I lay down. guild run and the dps had an rotation.

zaria

CultOfMMO wrote: »

while theres very little anyone can do about people who are mentally challenged with regards to mechanics, this game is in desperate need of a shared dps meter. It's time for the community to learn just how garbage 90% of the player base is, and then proceed from there.

First few months will be rough, but will be healthy in the long run.

WoW had a long history of shared dps meters and in the vast majority of groups, even PUGs, people can pull very similar dps. At most the better players will be pulling 1.5 times, not double the lesser players. Whereas in ESO I can be doing 60-75% of grp dps in 4 man dungeons with 3 dps 1 healer, and 25-40% in normal trials with 9 dps 1 tank 2 healer.

Combat metrics give group dps and your faction of it, it your are the other dps you get an very good figure.
Downside of an shared dps meter is elitist idiots who pugs and want an speed run.

Combined with an 1 kick limit it could work, make limit two if none in group has kicked anybody that day.
My experience from wow is that scrubs will always vote to kick somebody as it makes them-self safe.
An more experienced player know that the replacement might be an light attack wonder who don't understand English so you stick with the one who do 7k and follows orders.
Change so you get you undaunted pledge even if joining as random on last boss, its not something you can predict anyway. Inviting someone outside the finder and he don't.

Know this from my WOW days, had one bad one, had to kick guildmate because of disconnect, got an replacement who was AfK probably used macro to accept and we could not kick him, managed the dungeon anyway.

raglau

Naerri wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

I'd rather dps with pugs than tank. Tanking means you rely on your allies to kill the boss, and we all know how dependable randoms are.

True, watching bosses health bar going down sooo slowly and there is nothing you can do about it is so frustrating. But I do it anyway because you dont have to deal will hour long DPS que. And you might get lucky and get a decent grp.

4 man content, even vet, is so easy to tank that you can put a healthy amount of stuff into a DPS skill line anyway. Vet-DLC content is tougher as are trials, but for non-DLC vet you can spec a tank that's easily capable of doing more damage than your typical 2-handed, heavy armour wearing player that tends to crop up in vet content with surprising regularity.

alexkdd99

Cronopoly wrote: »

You carry a group like this to the Last Boss, you stop and start typing as fast as you can, furiously against the stupidity about to occur. You are about to hit enter on your text to the group which ends in, "DO NOT TOUCH THAT SCROLL, it activates the last Bosses Hard Mo"... And the screen goes white...

If it's the pledge I'm not running the vet version and not doing hard mode. At that point you might as well just ran the normal version.

Now if you are just farming then no need.

central_scrutinizer

Aquanova wrote: »

I thought this post was about the boss with the three spiders which ( of the last couple of weeks ) seems to position herself next to the ledge and then falls off and resets the fight.

She did that when we got her to 50k health

When you are facing the cliff, there are rocks to your right you can hide behind, taunt her and do that and she'll run towards the middle of the area.

alexkdd99

RebornV3x wrote: »

That 2nd boss in Vet Fungal 2 is a pug stopper thats one dungeon you have to do with guild mates even if you get past that boss with a random group some idiot always walks into the husks aura and ruining stuff

That's when you wipe the group. I have no problem wiping if someone screws up hard and doesn't read scroll or goes inside husk. Now if the boss is almost dead I just go with it, but I rarely don't catch until the end. I almost exclusively pug and have beaten all the dungeons multiple times. The group finder is like everything else in the game, random. You can get good group, and you can get complete garbage groups.

Anymore I don't ask in 4 of my 5 guilds since I usually have worst luck asking them and if I do ask and get someone not qualified I don't want to kick them or leave with them being in my guild. I guess I feel more committed to it if I know they are in 1 of my guilds.

Bobby_V_Rockit

I cant get past the last boss in vet Tempest Island due to latency issues, can practically solo the dungeon up until that point then find myself reading an awful lot of death recaps... that dash and gust thing just wipe me before the animations have even occured on my screen.

disintegr8

visionality wrote: »

On a more serious ground: Yes, the 2nd FG2-boss is nasty for many random groups. Many players are simply overwhelmed by the game, and even if you tell them to watch out for the misery-band etc. they will simply not see it because there is so much else going on. And many DDs are just too weak to kill the chainers.

When I'm doing that dungeon with randoms and I see that the rest of the group is not having enough dps for the chainers, I tell them to just let me die when chained and rezz quickly afterwards. Works pretty well in most cases.

My friend and I have taken this approach with very underpowered pugs and it can be far less stressful to keep hitting the boss and simply res the dead person. As long as 3 people stay up, this strategy works - if you have a 2nd death it gets hard.

My friend actually found that with his 50k+ health tank he could survive the chains.

Magdalina

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

I cant get past the last boss in vet Tempest Island due to latency issues, can practically solo the dungeon up until that point then find myself reading an awful lot of death recaps... that dash and gust thing just wipe me before the animations have even occured on my screen.

All you gotta do is stay in her safe range - right outside her aoe's range. Or even inside its range, rolling/stepping back as she does aoe, then coming back. You can literally stand the whole fight still in the safe range She will only charge someone if they get too far from her. Wind gusts are admittedly annoying though, they can easily push you either too close(into aoe) or too far(far away for her charge), so it's best to keep shields up just in case.

James-Wayne

Said this many times since beta, ZoS needs training dungeon grounds to explain to new comers how this stuff works.

disintegr8

James-Wayne wrote: »

Said this many times since beta, ZoS needs training dungeon grounds to explain to new comers how this stuff works.

Based on the number of people who want to power level as fast as possible, I wonder how many of them would actually bother using the training grounds. Unless they were compulsory, with required completion times, scores or something that you had to achieve to be 'licensed' to progress into vet dungeons.

I know there are some games, like motor racing games, where you have to complete minimum training/qualification levels before you can access the next level of events. Something like that might work but it has to be role specific: maybe a healer has to keep 3 NPC's alive in a dungeon, a tank has to keep taunt on a boss while the NPC's take him down, etc.

Azicah

I'd say the best you can do in PUG runs is to be patient and explain mechanics over, and over again. Tell them that they're not pulling enough damage, then suggest alternatives... like actually using skills. However, don't act like a jerk. If you've ran out of patience, and they're not willing to change or try, just drop group. Best way I could think of to handle these situations.

Dreyfron

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Fg2 is all about mechanics and dps. If your people can't kill chains or avoid tethers, you won't get past that second boss.

I agree, great use of teamwork, with my guildmates fg2 is a walk in the park

JinMori

I hate fg2 as a dungeon.