Fungal Grotto 2 Struggle

Stonemill

I run a NB sap tank, cp 330. I'm no pro tank by any means but I typically have no trouble holding aggro, gathering up mobs with swarm mothers, providing off heals to my squad throwing the occasional orb towards the magicka dps or healer, and you know tank the boss. Basic Sap tank stuff.

For whatever reason yesterday I ran with 3 PUGs that all wiped multiple times on FG2's Vet 2nd boss Gmayne Bandu(sp?)

Each time I asked everybody if the knew the fights, every time all yes's from everybody. Then this boss fight comes around no one was doing any of the mechanics. People would get beams snd stand next to each other and die, someone would get chained down, I'd pierce armor one to mark it while still keeping the boss's aggro and everybody would attack a different shade... with 3 different PUGs I'd say we had a 20% success rate on chained people.

I'm a relatively patient guy so after the first wipe I'd explain the mechanics and strategy, everybody would roger up and we'd have he same results. I finally gave up on people splitting beams off me( since I can survive it) and would run away from them with the boss and tow in an attempt to save them and they'd run right after me until they died.

One guy shared his DPS report with me in an attempt to show his lack of dps wasn't the problem. He was doing 7k... I was doing 7-10k as the tank...

After the 3rd groups 3rd wipe I said you know what it must just be me and walked away from the game for the day. (No I didn't quit forever and you can't has my stuff)

Sorry for the rant ya'll. Does any one else struggle with this dungeon with PUGs? I haven't seen a group struggle with mechanics so hard aside from the Planar Inhibitor in WGT.

Stovahkiin

Personally I've seen some people struggle with the fight, especially on their first time or so, but I've never had groups wipe over and over there.

Mic1007

7k DPS? Ouch, no wonder you were struggling. The chain adds have like 200k health or so IIRC.

alexkdd99

I have been experiencing the same lately. I joined a coh2 vet group as my healer. We just barely scraped through.

There was a 350 cp dps using a 2 hander. A 600 dps spamming resto heavy attacks. And a tank that couldn't debuff. It was miserable. Needless to say when they asked if I wanted to run FG 2 I politely declined.

I honestly think I could have soloed most of that dungeon on my dps quicker than that entire group. And the sad part is when I was recruited to do the daily, they were asking for 600 CP players. I initially joined on my dps but after 30 minute in the queue I switched to my healer and got a dungeon immediately.

I think they have made it so easy to reach max rank and to do ANYTHING overland that people are not actually learning how to play the game. I bet if I wasn't doing 10k dps on my healer we wouldn't of made it thorough the dungeon.

They need something in game to help people l2p. Most of the time can't really blame them because the game does a poor job on teaching people just about anything.

Sucks being on a healer since it makes it harder to carry people wearing spc and worm.

Stonemill

alexkdd99 wrote: »

I have been experiencing the same lately. I joined a coh2 vet group as my healer. We just barely scraped through.

There was a 350 cp dps using a 2 hander. A 600 dps spamming resto heavy attacks. And a tank that couldn't debuff. It was miserable. Needless to say when they asked if I wanted to run FG 2 I politely declined.

I honestly think I could have soloed most of that dungeon on my dps quicker than that entire group. And the sad part is when I was recruited to do the daily, they were asking for 600 CP players. I initially joined on my dps but after 30 minute in the queue I switched to my healer and got a dungeon immediately.

I think they have made it so easy to reach max rank and to do ANYTHING overland that people are not actually learning how to play the game. I bet if I wasn't doing 10k dps on my healer we wouldn't of made it thorough the dungeon.

They need something in game to help people l2p. Most of the time can't really blame them because the game does a poor job on teaching people just about anything.

Sucks being on a healer since it makes it harder to carry people wearing spc and worm.

I agree, I've been seeing this more and more as well. I spent most of my time with this game as a DPS and I'm no alpha dog vet trial player but I pull 20-25k on a training dummy, so mildly respectable. Usually unless the tank just afk's the whole dungeon not had too many issues with non DLC dungeons.

I started tanking a few months back and absolutely love it but occasionally you get 2 DPS's light attacking with 2 handers pulling 10k combined and it can be a real struggle.

Also like you said it's not always just a matter of champions points. That fella with the 7k dps was cp616. I would honestly expect a cp616 to talk loudly and disentagrate everything in their path.

mobicera

I've seen the occasional wipe there in dungeon finder groups, normally after explained once people complete it easily enough since the dps check on shade is so low.
That being said I did have to bail on a group once as the dps was so low they couldn't kill a shade and wouldn't Rez, wouldn't break the beam and after 10 attempts I just got frustrated and left.
Once out of many many runs isn't that bad though!

idk

I always looked at that fight as one that basically nudges players to understand they need to have good area awareness rather than tunnel vision on doing damage to the boss.

I reached vet levels withing a month of the game releasing so and often had to pug or use the GF which was way more broken that it is now. I hated that fight since so many did not have the area awareness that OP is speaking of. The beam and releasing the person who gets pinned would be misses time and again.

It is great you have patience to give them a chance. It is always worth helping someone understand. After at some point it is best to move on since some players need more time to get used to their character and the game mechanics.

Oh, same can be said about players taking heavy damage in dungeons. Some are more challenged to notice and move out of the red circle or block the heavy attack. If I die it is likely my fault though some like to blame the healer instead of recognizing where they have room to improve.

souravami

Too many people grinded their cps in dolmen and didn't play the game in the process. That's why you see so many high cps in vet dungeons, who have no *** idea what they're doing.
And pugs have problems with any boss that have the slightest mechanics. I guess the collective iq drops when people use the group finder

alexkdd99

souravami wrote: »

Too many people grinded their cps in dolmen and didn't play the game in the process. That's why you see so many high cps in vet dungeons, who have no *** idea what they're doing.
And pugs have problems with any boss that have the slightest mechanics. I guess the collective iq drops when people use the group finder

The new thing on xbox seems to be people paying to be leveled at skyreach. I try to tell people to learn to play while they level and they will be better off for it. But they never listen. The number of clueless high cp players have increased dramatically. Since I mainly pug I have been feeling this pretty hard.

Magdalina

Stonemill wrote: »

I run a NB sap tank, cp 330. I'm no pro tank by any means but I typically have no trouble holding aggro, gathering up mobs with swarm mothers, providing off heals to my squad throwing the occasional orb towards the magicka dps or healer, and you know tank the boss. Basic Sap tank stuff.

For whatever reason yesterday I ran with 3 PUGs that all wiped multiple times on FG2's Vet 2nd boss Gmayne Bandu(sp?)

Each time I asked everybody if the knew the fights, every time all yes's from everybody. Then this boss fight comes around no one was doing any of the mechanics. People would get beams snd stand next to each other and die, someone would get chained down, I'd pierce armor one to mark it while still keeping the boss's aggro and everybody would attack a different shade... with 3 different PUGs I'd say we had a 20% success rate on chained people.

I'm a relatively patient guy so after the first wipe I'd explain the mechanics and strategy, everybody would roger up and we'd have he same results. I finally gave up on people splitting beams off me( since I can survive it) and would run away from them with the boss and tow in an attempt to save them and they'd run right after me until they died.

One guy shared his DPS report with me in an attempt to show his lack of dps wasn't the problem. He was doing 7k... I was doing 7-10k as the tank...

After the 3rd groups 3rd wipe I said you know what it must just be me and walked away from the game for the day. (No I didn't quit forever and you can't has my stuff)

Sorry for the rant ya'll. Does any one else struggle with this dungeon with PUGs? I haven't seen a group struggle with mechanics so hard aside from the Planar Inhibitor in WGT.

Let me make you feel better - just a couple days ago I struggled in, listen to this, Wayrest II on the melee fearing boss(I don't remember his name because usually he dies almost as fast as trash so who cares really). We wiped twice on it I think. First time one of the dps decided to run off to the tunnel in the back and bring ALL THE MOBS from there onto us because reasons(in his defence he did later apologize), causing the other dps and tank insta-dying pretty much and me, the healer, nearly killing the ads(I couldn't res very well with them and boss on me) before I ran out of stam and got rekt by boss. Try 2 started without extra mobs so the tank's oneshot was visible clear as a day, at his 17k health and no block while standing under boss' heavy. The dps followed quickly, and to my shame my lack of stam management on healer(nor being prepared for such outcome) caused me to die soon enough too. We got it on third try because I gave up, slotted Undaunted taunt and said I'd just tank it - when I was ready for it I didn't have too many issues shielding off his attacks, despite being a pure healer with 18k health, 9k stam and resto/destro staff

In his defence, tank said it was just a new toon of his(cp 600) and ended up swapping to his main for the last fight, which went marginally better. Last fight(no HM) took us about 10 mins btw because the dps must've been like...Idk 5k each, lower? I don't want to be a jerk and they were obviously new, in the range of 100 cp, but it was pretty sad. The bats there stayed up for like minutes upon minutes and I swear the only way their health noticeably depleted was my Sweeps. The few remaining bats with like 5% health stayed flying around forever til I mercifully finished them with jesusbeam. I couldn't watch the skills they were using closely because I was basically busy healing non stop but one of them was a stamsorc who kept using Negate on everything, including mobile bosses with no ads, even after I advised him to use something else for bosses at least as it's basically an ulti wasted

On side note, aw OP, you sound like such a nice guy. Saying it "must be you" rather than raging at them gets you some points from me. Where was that cookie smiley to make you feel better?;) (no sarcasm intended here)

Draqone

I gave up on Group Finder pugs altogether. I sometimes get people from zone chat, sometimes from my trade guilds - this way it guarantees they at least look at the chat!

I still help new people run dungeons and teach the mechanics but only if they are guildies, and preferably on teamspeak. Only yesterday I did FG2 normal with 2 new people. We did it in maybe 30-40ish minutes, wiped a few times but we finished and had loads of fun.

As a healer I just can't afford to run any dungeons with groups where I do 50% of the DPS.

flguy147ub17_ESO

alexkdd99 wrote: »

souravami wrote: »

Too many people grinded their cps in dolmen and didn't play the game in the process. That's why you see so many high cps in vet dungeons, who have no *** idea what they're doing.
And pugs have problems with any boss that have the slightest mechanics. I guess the collective iq drops when people use the group finder

The new thing on xbox seems to be people paying to be leveled at skyreach. I try to tell people to learn to play while they level and they will be better off for it. But they never listen. The number of clueless high cp players have increased dramatically. Since I mainly pug I have been feeling this pretty hard.

Played this game for a while and even on all 3 platforms. Been back 2 months on only Xbox starting from scratch. I have noticed the willing to pay to level in skywatch too. One problem with that is they will get to CP 160 with no skill points so even if they have abilities their passives will be horrible. Quit my first group ever on Vet CoH yesterday. We wiped on the first trash pull. Then get to the first boss(one you normally skip) and the Tank goes into Werewolf and goes in on the boss. Then of course he has no taunt and boss is chasing me around like crazy. Adds started spawning like crazy and i literally just dropped group in the middle of the first boss fight. I never quit groups ever but i knew this group had zero chance to complete the dungeon.

Eisenhovver

This is what skyreach has done to the game. You get a bunch of high level noobs that never had to play the game. They stand in red, they light attack with bow continuously, they ignore mechanics and people telling them about said mechanics, etc. The quality of players I have seen in vet pugs has dropped significantly over past few months

doggie

I was in veteran Blackheart Haven today on my Tank, and you know you're in trouble when the first trash group takes minutes to kill. We got to the last boss, but they didnt manage to kill the skeletons, so they piled up. The weird part was that the others got really mad at me for "Not tanking the skeletons", we're talking 20+ at some point. I used enourmous ammounts of resources trying to keep them off the other group members.

When I got ported into a skelly it was over each time. Funny part is one of the "DPS" left first. I did the math on one of the single target bosses and the total team dps was less than 15k.

The problem is that the game is very open, you can do what you want, the outdoor is very easy, but there is nothing to prevent these guys from enetering content they're not ready for.

In TSW there was a similar open system, but atleast there was a gatekeeper litterally to keep people out of hard mode dungeons.

Maybe they need to introduce some check, like kill a 1m HP dummy in less than 1 minute, before they could sign up as DPS in veteran?

raglau

Stonemill wrote: »

I run a NB sap tank, cp 330. I'm no pro tank by any means but I typically have no trouble holding aggro, gathering up mobs with swarm mothers, providing off heals to my squad throwing the occasional orb towards the magicka dps or healer, and you know tank the boss. Basic Sap tank stuff.

For whatever reason yesterday I ran with 3 PUGs that all wiped multiple times on FG2's Vet 2nd boss Gmayne Bandu(sp?)

Each time I asked everybody if the knew the fights, every time all yes's from everybody. Then this boss fight comes around no one was doing any of the mechanics. People would get beams snd stand next to each other and die, someone would get chained down, I'd pierce armor one to mark it while still keeping the boss's aggro and everybody would attack a different shade... with 3 different PUGs I'd say we had a 20% success rate on chained people.

I'm a relatively patient guy so after the first wipe I'd explain the mechanics and strategy, everybody would roger up and we'd have he same results. I finally gave up on people splitting beams off me( since I can survive it) and would run away from them with the boss and tow in an attempt to save them and they'd run right after me until they died.

One guy shared his DPS report with me in an attempt to show his lack of dps wasn't the problem. He was doing 7k... I was doing 7-10k as the tank...

After the 3rd groups 3rd wipe I said you know what it must just be me and walked away from the game for the day. (No I didn't quit forever and you can't has my stuff)

Sorry for the rant ya'll. Does any one else struggle with this dungeon with PUGs? I haven't seen a group struggle with mechanics so hard aside from the Planar Inhibitor in WGT.

I've seen high level people struggle with this fight, and I've seen low level people do it right off. People need a little co-ordination, if they are struggling I say something like, "we'll DPS down the chain add that spawns nearest this cage corner", to give them a point of reference. But the big killer in this one is low DPS, if they cannot burn the adds down fast then someone dies each time and you're forever playing catch up. Often people don't seem to res their comrades quickly and if you get 2 people down in that fight you're finished IME. I now therefore, politely leave after the first boss if the DPS is weak.

I sap tank this one too and it's very easy, so it's not you!

Draqone

doggie wrote: »

Maybe they need to introduce some check, like kill a 1m HP dummy in less than 1 minute, before they could sign up as DPS in veteran?

That's actually an amazing idea.

Something like an Undaunted quest where they send you to kill a an Evil Totem Of An Utterly Evil Otter that has 1 mil HP and doesn't fight back.

If you manage to kill it you can sign up for normal Dungeons, if you manage to kill it <1 min you can sign up as a DPS for vets.

Stonemill

I think there's a couple issues inherent with the grinding meta in place right now. Me personally if I haven't run a dungeon with a character, even if I've run it a thousand times on my dps, I'll run it on normal first. It could be a completely different experience on my tank or healer so I familiarize myself with the dungeon at least once per characters. I think people are grinding to cp10000 with no skill points or decent gear but feel entitled to vet just because they're high level. We all know cp doesn't equal skill. It sure helps but it's not a 1:1 equivalent.

Another tool that's underused is this forum and the wiki ( I know my forum account says FEB17 I'm just a dirty lurker). I know 80% of the forums is griping about crown crates and and other tomfoolery but there's a lot of great info on here. One quick browse through the combat and mechanics section would really help the heavy attack resto staff stam sorc builds realize they might need to re-evaluate their builds a little. By no means does everyone need to run the meta to complete vet dungeons or norm trial( I know I don't). But knowing what it is and incorporating a little into your build or at least knowing stamina makes your stamina skills hit harder would really help.

And the wiki! Everyday when I pick up the pledge quests I whip out the ol' cell phone to the wiki and read the dungeon walk through. Even if I've done it a thousand times! There's walkthroughs and mechanics for every boss fight on there. You can read it during the loading and refresh your memory of some installing mechanic that one boss has that you forgot about.

Ihatenightblades

Stonemill wrote: »

I run a NB sap tank, cp 330. I'm no pro tank by any means but I typically have no trouble holding aggro, gathering up mobs with swarm mothers, providing off heals to my squad throwing the occasional orb towards the magicka dps or healer, and you know tank the boss. Basic Sap tank stuff.

For whatever reason yesterday I ran with 3 PUGs that all wiped multiple times on FG2's Vet 2nd boss Gmayne Bandu(sp?)

Each time I asked everybody if the knew the fights, every time all yes's from everybody. Then this boss fight comes around no one was doing any of the mechanics. People would get beams snd stand next to each other and die, someone would get chained down, I'd pierce armor one to mark it while still keeping the boss's aggro and everybody would attack a different shade... with 3 different PUGs I'd say we had a 20% success rate on chained people.

I'm a relatively patient guy so after the first wipe I'd explain the mechanics and strategy, everybody would roger up and we'd have he same results. I finally gave up on people splitting beams off me( since I can survive it) and would run away from them with the boss and tow in an attempt to save them and they'd run right after me until they died.

One guy shared his DPS report with me in an attempt to show his lack of dps wasn't the problem. He was doing 7k... I was doing 7-10k as the tank...

After the 3rd groups 3rd wipe I said you know what it must just be me and walked away from the game for the day. (No I didn't quit forever and you can't has my stuff)

Sorry for the rant ya'll. Does any one else struggle with this dungeon with PUGs? I haven't seen a group struggle with mechanics so hard aside from the Planar Inhibitor in WGT.

1. Vote to kick them
2. One at a time.
3. Start with the weakest link.
4. Then repeat steps 1-3 if you still have problems.

Magdalina

Stonemill wrote: »

Another tool that's underused is this forum and the wiki ( I know my forum account says FEB17 I'm just a dirty lurker). I know 80% of the forums is griping about crown crates and and other tomfoolery but there's a lot of great info on here. One quick browse through the combat and mechanics section would really help the heavy attack resto staff stam sorc builds realize they might need to re-evaluate their builds a little. By no means does everyone need to run the meta to complete vet dungeons or norm trial( I know I don't). But knowing what it is and incorporating a little into your build or at least knowing stamina makes your stamina skills hit harder would really help.

And the wiki! Everyday when I pick up the pledge quests I whip out the ol' cell phone to the wiki and read the dungeon walk through. Even if I've done it a thousand times! There's walkthroughs and mechanics for every boss fight on there. You can read it during the loading and refresh your memory of some installing mechanic that one boss has that you forgot about.

There's heaps of info available but I agree you shouldn't need to look stuff up in order to know that jesusbeaming on a stamina build, while looking shiny, is going to be highly ineffective. The followup of that is that people often don't even know they're bad - they breeze through overworld and main quest, roflstomp WB with the crowd of people farming them, and feel they're ready for group content, when SUDDENLY...it's cool that you can rp your way through the game if that's your cup of tea, but we really need a learning curve for people wanting to partake in group content The game itself teaches you nothing. If anything it teaches you that your stamina templar using heavy resto attacks alternated with jesus beam and occasional BoL is extremely effective because it works on every single openworld mob.

idk

souravami wrote: »

Too many people grinded their cps in dolmen and didn't play the game in the process. That's why you see so many high cps in vet dungeons, who have no *** idea what they're doing.
And pugs have problems with any boss that have the slightest mechanics. I guess the collective iq drops when people use the group finder

It was this way in the beginning so it's just inexperienced players overall. One
Can level slow doing quests and still be challenged handling the mechanics.

Stonemill

[quote="Magdalina;3917520"


On side note, aw OP, you sound like such a nice guy. Saying it "must be you" rather than raging at them gets you some points from me. Where was that cookie smiley to make you feel better?;) (no sarcasm intended here)[/quote]

I do try. Honestly a death here or there or a wipe is a que to me to think what can I do better to keep this ragtag band of dirty undaunted mercs alive. ( Sometimes there really is nothing I can do. Some people have 12k health and an attraction to red circles). If everybody in the group dies and I can pop a VOB and Rez everybody and we ending up winning that to me is a bigger success as a tank then the overall clean sweep through the dungeon.

I've seen the tank and healer straight rage quit if one person died during a boss fight saying this group is trash. That's not really my style. But 3 wipes on the same boss? Even I have my limit. Honestly if the boss didn't have that chain down instakill mechanic I would have just left everybody dead and soloed the boss haha. In about 5-10 minutes of course

malicia

Another point of view:

I'm one of the group content noobs around here - most of my time was spent playing solo. Currently on CP290, playing a stamblade. Fairly standard setup - Hundings below, NMG at the top.

I want to improve my gear, so I'm currently trying to farm CoS and the Undaunted dailies for a Monster set.

I tried nICP today with a pug group. Two were higher CP than me, and one was at about CP50 (healer). When we entered the dungeon, I told them that it is my first time there, and asked if they'd advise if there were mechanics that I need to be aware of. The only reply I got was "MOAR DEEPS". The two higher CPs proceeded to run ahead, often leaving our healer behind, mostly after some of the loading screens. We killed the first boss without too much trouble, but if I knew that he's going to summons so many adds I'd have change my skills a bit for that fight. My connection dropped before we got to the second boss, so I don't know how it went from there. I'm willing to learn and to take advice, but in this case there was no advice to be had.

On the flip side: yesterday I did nCoS with a pug group. Again, two newbies (including me) and two have done it before. IIRC I was the highest CP group member. Before each boss they'd make sure the group is together, and they'd tell us what the important mechanics are. We managed fairly well, struggling only with the second last boss (Dranos Velador). Our healer was very new to dungeons, and I got the impression that he's fighting the boss rather than healing, while I had latency running from 400-500 ms. The healer's connection seemed to drop in our third attempt, and we eventually had to kick him. We'd have been willing to try again with him, though, if his connection hadn't dropped. I told the rest of the group that I might have to leave if my latency got worse, as I was becoming a liability. With 500ms latency you have very little time to dodge red circles, and I had to play on the back bar way too much. I found a healer in my guild who was willing to help (CP 600), and from there it was a breeze. We managed to finish the rest of the dungeon without any wipes.

Of the two groups, I'd love to play with the nCoS group again. They're briefings and advice enabled the group to do much better than would have been possible otherwise.

I think it goes both ways. I don't think it would be fair to start an unknown dungeon without telling the rest that I'm new to it, as that can hamstring the group. Likewise, if I tell you that I'm new, take that moment or two and explain the mechanics of the fight. Pug groups can work, and can be a great place for someone to actually L2P.

ForsakenSin

You think that is bad ... the other day i was doing random pug Crypt of Hearts II
3 cp 600 and one cp 300 i think.. easy right...

not as such i was a healer and had to change between healing and DPS one of the cp 600 was just spamming bow light attack the whole time another cp 600 was a tank and the cp 300 was another dps .... so as you can imagine due to the light bow spamming attacks the dps was bad and it took a very very long time to kill ads and bosses after 30 min or so and slow progress i asked the bow light attack to use dual as dps is really low... didn't quiet work ... 50 min into it and not making progress i had to leave due to been 4 am already and i didn't have it in me to stay up till 5 am to finish one dungeon

ok i have to ask is there something i am missing with the light bow attacks ?

akl77

Yes, I have the same failed pug group for that 2nd boss many times, it is just one of the boss that if your group don't have enough dps, you'll be stuck in there forever. So if it don't work cos lack dps, leave immediately and pug another one.

Stonemill

malicia wrote: »

Another point of view:

I'm one of the group content noobs around here - most of my time was spent playing solo. Currently on CP290, playing a stamblade. Fairly standard setup - Hundings below, NMG at the top.

I want to improve my gear, so I'm currently trying to farm CoS and the Undaunted dailies for a Monster set.

I tried nICP today with a pug group. Two were higher CP than me, and one was at about CP50 (healer). When we entered the dungeon, I told them that it is my first time there, and asked if they'd advise if there were mechanics that I need to be aware of. The only reply I got was "MOAR DEEPS". The two higher CPs proceeded to run ahead, often leaving our healer behind, mostly after some of the loading screens. We killed the first boss without too much trouble, but if I knew that he's going to summons so many adds I'd have change my skills a bit for that fight. My connection dropped before we got to the second boss, so I don't know how it went from there. I'm willing to learn and to take advice, but in this case there was no advice to be had.

On the flip side: yesterday I did nCoS with a pug group. Again, two newbies (including me) and two have done it before. IIRC I was the highest CP group member. Before each boss they'd make sure the group is together, and they'd tell us what the important mechanics are. We managed fairly well, struggling only with the second last boss (Dranos Velador). Our healer was very new to dungeons, and I got the impression that he's fighting the boss rather than healing, while I had latency running from 400-500 ms. The healer's connection seemed to drop in our third attempt, and we eventually had to kick him. We'd have been willing to try again with him, though, if his connection hadn't dropped. I told the rest of the group that I might have to leave if my latency got worse, as I was becoming a liability. With 500ms latency you have very little time to dodge red circles, and I had to play on the back bar way too much. I found a healer in my guild who was willing to help (CP 600), and from there it was a breeze. We managed to finish the rest of the dungeon without any wipes.

Of the two groups, I'd love to play with the nCoS group again. They're briefings and advice enabled the group to do much better than would have been possible otherwise.

I think it goes both ways. I don't think it would be fair to start an unknown dungeon without telling the rest that I'm new to it, as that can hamstring the group. Likewise, if I tell you that I'm new, take that moment or two and explain the mechanics of the fight. Pug groups can work, and can be a great place for someone to actually L2P.

This isn't a post about newbs sucking. Your doing everything right. Running stuff on normal and letting people know your unfamiliar with the mechanics is the way to go. Some people are just rude like that first group you played with. On normal there's no reason not to explain the boss to somebody trying to learn.

What the issue is here is people coming into Vet dungeons pulling 5k dps and claiming to know the mechanics, then blatantly ignoring them even after they've been explained. You don't need monster helms to pull decent dps, you can roll in with purple crafted gear and a decent understanding of your character and do just fine.

You're not the kind of up and coming player that's the issue here.

And once again if I'm coming off as some kind of psuedo elitist that's not my intention here at all. I'm only cp 330( took some breaks since PC release) and I keep my sap tank out of trials where I don't belong. So you could say I'm pretty casual. I think there's just a kind of unspoken rule that when you roll into Vet dungeons most folks should kinda have it together at that point and maybe the game does a poor job explaining that.

malicia

Stonemill wrote: »

... I think there's just a kind of unspoken rule that when you roll into Vet dungeons most folks should kinda have it together at that point and maybe the game does a poor job explaining that.

I agree. It is a bit silly of the game to allow me into vSO when I haven't even completed nSO. I feel that having completed a dungeon on normal should be a basic requirement for doing vet mode. It wouldn't solve the problem, but it would help a bit. Even better would have been if you had to do all the normal mode dungeons in a zone before being allowed to do vet mode.

alexkdd99

malicia wrote: »

Another point of view:

I'm one of the group content noobs around here - most of my time was spent playing solo. Currently on CP290, playing a stamblade. Fairly standard setup - Hundings below, NMG at the top.

I want to improve my gear, so I'm currently trying to farm CoS and the Undaunted dailies for a Monster set.

I tried nICP today with a pug group. Two were higher CP than me, and one was at about CP50 (healer). When we entered the dungeon, I told them that it is my first time there, and asked if they'd advise if there were mechanics that I need to be aware of. The only reply I got was "MOAR DEEPS". The two higher CPs proceeded to run ahead, often leaving our healer behind, mostly after some of the loading screens. We killed the first boss without too much trouble, but if I knew that he's going to summons so many adds I'd have change my skills a bit for that fight. My connection dropped before we got to the second boss, so I don't know how it went from there. I'm willing to learn and to take advice, but in this case there was no advice to be had.

On the flip side: yesterday I did nCoS with a pug group. Again, two newbies (including me) and two have done it before. IIRC I was the highest CP group member. Before each boss they'd make sure the group is together, and they'd tell us what the important mechanics are. We managed fairly well, struggling only with the second last boss (Dranos Velador). Our healer was very new to dungeons, and I got the impression that he's fighting the boss rather than healing, while I had latency running from 400-500 ms. The healer's connection seemed to drop in our third attempt, and we eventually had to kick him. We'd have been willing to try again with him, though, if his connection hadn't dropped. I told the rest of the group that I might have to leave if my latency got worse, as I was becoming a liability. With 500ms latency you have very little time to dodge red circles, and I had to play on the back bar way too much. I found a healer in my guild who was willing to help (CP 600), and from there it was a breeze. We managed to finish the rest of the dungeon without any wipes.

Of the two groups, I'd love to play with the nCoS group again. They're briefings and advice enabled the group to do much better than would have been possible otherwise.

I think it goes both ways. I don't think it would be fair to start an unknown dungeon without telling the rest that I'm new to it, as that can hamstring the group. Likewise, if I tell you that I'm new, take that moment or two and explain the mechanics of the fight. Pug groups can work, and can be a great place for someone to actually L2P.

I almost always explain any mechanic that I've known people to struggle with. What is really aggravating is when you go through the time thoroughly explaining mechanics and people still don't listen.

Most of the time if people are doing things such as spamming bow light attacks I try to drop some subtle hints. I try not to just straight up tell people they are doing it wrong or playing wrong, since that can cause some to enrage. But some just don't want to get better and expect offers to carry them. If people are willing to listen and take advice I will do everything to help, even go so far as to craft them free armor/ weapons.

disintegr8

I agree that the game does not teach anyone how to play and never has, at least not on console. I'd also like to see that everyone can manage a dungeon in normal mode before they run it in vet mode. Sounds like the OP was running with people who may not have even done FG2 in normal mode.

Back before 1T, you did not see this version of Fungal Grotto until you reached vet ranks and a lot of us got a real shock with this fight. I used to hate it and l believed, like in a lot of dungeons, the hardest fight had been fought before you even reached the last boss. Plenty of experienced players used to get frustrated with our ignorance but at least we had an excuse - we could not access it before reaching vet ranks.

Having said that, I do not think this fight in normal mode does anything to prepare you properly for vet mode - it can teach you the mechanics, but only if the boss is alive long enough to display them all. Too many of these fights are a cake walk in normal mode, especially if you have farmed your levels and do not go into any dungeons until you are beyond level 50.

I know I see lot of CP players who do not know the dungeons or how to work as a group and see plenty of CP 100-200 players struggle in a lot of dungeons - even some normals. Even with a bad build you are half way there if you know the mechanics and can communicate and work with the rest of the group to complete the dungeon.

LordGavus

This is why a stopped pugging with my tank. He doesn't have the dps to carry bad teams though mechanics like that. Only used for friend or guild groups now.

It's just the joy of pugs.
On my dps or healer it's no problem.

Narvuntien

Okay I have defiantely gone into vet dungeons having never done the normal and I have been dragged through many dungeons without the slightest clue about the boss mechainics.

And I have often struggled with FG2 mechanics, I believe FG2 was second dungeon (other than the one that starts the undaunted quest line) even on normal we had trouble with the chains. I later had people ask for help with it (on normal) but they were level 30 or less and they just didn't have all the skills and we couldn't even get close to what was needed to finish the dungeon.

The issue is that I need those purple rings for my build, I don't actually enjoy dungeons, but I have to do them for the rings and monster helms. Why bother with the normal?

My gear is all crafted but... I can't craft the jewelery... if the best gear is only dungeon dropped I have to do dungeons. rather than wasting huge amounts of gold on dropped rings I'll never use.

Luckily my MagDk Mage seems to be quite good at least I think so, and i used Silks of the Sun until I farmed Burning spell weave. Although I use sword and board and not dual wield and that confuses people... I had a tank accuse me of taunting the bosses and leave..... but I believe it was the crit animation looks like piece armor, with the thief stone weapon crit is higher.

With one exception DC2, we couldn't pass the netch boss, I was killing myself with the reflect damage because I am a fire mage vampire .

My Stam-gank-blade is pretty much worthless in dungeons though... as a 2h/ Bow main. I used up a few points into PVE skills to try and help but that is not what the character is built for. But... I needed strenght of the automaton rings (and when its a pleadge I might as well for keys).. so we really really struggled through DC1 Vet. We kept dying to the Warrior Kwama boss with his huge AoE that would kill us all if we were inside it long... over and over... the final boss was also a struggle but not as bad as we could lead the boss away and rez people.

acw37162

There are around six or seven of these fights in the game as far as dungeons go.

You already know, your dealing with people who don't know the mechanics, have been carried by friends or others, and if your experience is like mine have no inclination to listen.

No always but about 70% of the time these are no CP to low CP players who think they are "ready" for vet dungeons. If they will listen teach them. If they won't kick them or leave.

I had this experience three times this week when it was the daily.