Magblade needs work in pvp

Ihatenightblades

This is just insane . Please tell me what on earth in supposed to do when approached by a mag dk ? ( besides try and cloak and run )

For one u gotta apply 4 buffs ( atleast my build ) siphoning strikes merciless resolve piercing mark and degeneration.

By the time u do that you a mag DK already has rooted u smacked you with a couple lashes and dropped a meteor on your face..

While being snared of course because DK has every tool knows to mankind.

ZOS - "Dont worry cripple them and throw some 2k swallow souls that should keep you alive"

Lord help us magblades

Skullz11c

I main a magblade and am very happy. Yes, a properly played mag DK usually will, and IMO should beat a magblade. I play mag DK as well and only die to a magblade when I make a fatal mistake. Problem here is you need to understand certain classes have counters and certain setups within a class will counter others.

No class should be able to dominate all other classes. Magdk with "the usual setup" is a hard counter to magblade with "the usual setup".

If you are so frustrated with magdks change your play style to counter them more.

Hate to say it because I would love my main to get a buff (although I don't think it's needed) but this seems to be a L2P issue.

FloppyTouch

I'm play a mdk in pvp and agree with you magblade needs help very easy to kill and block most of there damage bc wings but we really can't nerf wings anymore it's almost useless. Most mNB do the same thing try to take us on then see we are a mdk then clock away as fast as possible.

I'm not sure what buff mNB need to make them better with out making them OP but they need some help

Skullz11c

If you're a magblade with solely ranged attacks why would you engage a flappy dk? You deserve to die. I love it when I am on my dk and this happens.

If you dissengage you did not lose, but made a tactical decision to engage in a more promising fight.

Again, if you want to counter a dk ranged attacks that can be reflected should not be your only source of dmg.

Switch up your skills. Time ranged attacks to when their wings drop and try, but likey fail to stam lock them lol.

FerrumnCutem

I realise the whole point of magblade is the buffing and debuffing aspect, but that takes waaay too much time in PvP situations.
And when you do manage to get your buffs up, you have to find the right time to burst all your damage at once on the enemy player. But if the fight takes too long you are bassicaly ***, when your buffs run out you are back to the beginning. Magdk will just block everything untill that point, sorc wil shieldspam with Lambris and templar can heal up in about 0.5 seconds.

Magblades main burst is the assassins will bow shot, which can just be dodgerolled and then its back to getting up your buffs and hoping they won't just roll away again.....

Although the sustain is good due to siphoning strikes and swallow soul and all the heals, most of the time you run into someone else and they just wait it out. A magblade is easily countered because of the low damage ouput when the bow misses or is blocked, or even when meteor is completely negated by just blocking and walking out of the AOE.

Magblade really needs some work Imo
Mercilles resolve should be cast again when you use it, or even better: make merciless resolve a passive ability that just gives 8% damage done through minor berserk and when you land 4 hits you can cast the bow for a magicka cost.
This would make magblade a lot better in PvP again and it would make the class a lot more fun to play since you could do something against your enemy.

I realise certain classes and setups counter eachother, but atm everything counters magblade. With easily dodged combo's and low damage ouput when dodged, any class can take on a magblade they just have to wait untill the buffs run out which is 12 sec......

So if you don't kill the blocking or shielded or perma-healing enemy with your *** combo you ate just dead.

Try cloaking away and being a sneaky assassin when people can litteraly just press their flashlight key in the form of magelight to make you visible again for them to *** you up.

Meteor+fear+spectral arrow = break free+ dodgeroll = 0 damage.

Knootewoot

Skullz11c wrote: »

If you're a magblade with solely ranged attacks why would you engage a flappy dk? You deserve to die. I love it when I am on my dk and this happens.

If you dissengage you did not lose, but made a tactical decision to engage in a more promising fight.

Again, if you want to counter a dk ranged attacks that can be reflected should not be your only source of dmg.

Switch up your skills. Time ranged attacks to when their wings drop and try, but likey fail to stam lock them lol.

I'm melee magblade and I do not run away also nor for DK's. But mostly it means death when rooted and whipped to death. But at least their flappy wings don't work on my concealed weapon harhar.

Ihatenightblades

Skullz11c wrote: »

I main a magblade and am very happy. Yes, a properly played mag DK usually will, and IMO should beat a magblade. I play mag DK as well and only die to a magblade when I make a fatal mistake. Problem here is you need to understand certain classes have counters and certain setups within a class will counter others.

No class should be able to dominate all other classes. Magdk with "the usual setup" is a hard counter to magblade with "the usual setup".

If you are so frustrated with magdks change your play style to counter them more.

Hate to say it because I would love my main to get a buff (although I don't think it's needed) but this seems to be a L2P issue.

How is it a l2p issue when u clearly stated a properly played dk should be better LMAO.

binho

I completely disagree with the opinion that a magicka nightblade shouldn't even try fighting a magicka DK.
In PVP every class should have a fighting chance against another class.
It's not a "L2p issue", it's a "balance" issue that needs to be addressed

Reefo

Magblade sucks for pvp, I have tried many builds.
Troll king worked well but that's about it.
Just gonna set him up for destro bombblade with that troll king since I would be stuck in cloak unable to heal if I take damage since no healing ward.

Just accept defeat and make a bombblade.

Ihatenightblades

I thought everybody complained about balance and always wanting the game to be as balanced as possible?

But the fact that everybody can agree that MAGDK own magblades proves it needs help big time.

Ihatenightblades

binho wrote: »

I completely disagree with the opinion that a magicka nightblade shouldn't even try fighting a magicka DK.
In PVP every class should have a fighting chance against another class.
It's not a "L2p issue", it's a "balance" issue that needs to be addressed

Thank you

Cadbury

As a magplar, I do feel NB need a buff

Rohamad_Ali

It is the roughest class I've ever played . Little to no room for errors . I can bumble around on my MagDK and accidentally kill a few people .

ScooberSteve

Isnt the whole point of nb's is to fight from the shadows and burst people down? Seems fair for you to be valnerable if caught.

binho

ScooberSteve wrote: »

Isnt the whole point of nb's is to fight from the shadows and burst people down? Seems fair for you to be valnerable if caught.

It is absolutely the "whole point"
However...
A magicka nightblade doesn't really have the damage to "burst" anyone down nowadays:/

WhiteMage

Cadbury wrote: »

As a magplar, I do feel NB need a buff

As a magplar, I say nerf roots and then we can talk.

It's one thing or another with these classes. What mDKs have is great melee attacks plus wings to compel enemies to fight in melee range. Great class design, but doesn't have enough counters. Magblades have some sweet mobility and burst with an awesome single target root but take time to line up their burst. They shine at range but wings...

Magblades could use some love in PvP (last I checked, which was before the update) based on how precious few of them I see out there, but whatever is done for them must not include any extra burst potential. That's not where they are lacking, ofc.

Knootewoot

ScooberSteve wrote: »

Isnt the whole point of nb's is to fight from the shadows and burst people down? Seems fair for you to be valnerable if caught.

What burst ahaha. I have 10k tooltip for concealed weapon. People laugh at me when I hit them. Yes, squishy people I can easily take but no HA users. And because it is not a one shot, when you attack a stamblade they turn around and one shot you with their precious procsets.

Still, I love my melee magblade. Some days I am ready to give up and go stamblade. Other days I love the class.

Tonight I will give up all my regeneration/sustain. I go max damage melee. Do, or die. And I will wear only Nordic bath towel.

Duiwel

OP in MagDK's current state the same could be said for most classes / combo's whether stamina or magicka.

Now I would not say nerf them I would instead incourage a buff.

Instead of making them weaker and increasing everyone's survivability. What about decreasing everyone's survivability?

By increasing the overall damage output you make the game more challenging

alephthiago

The is only ONE problem with magicka dk and its BLOCK CASTING, if you are blocking you shouldnt be able to take any offensive action.

WhiteMage

Duiwel wrote: »

OP in MagDK's current state the same could be said for most classes / combo's whether stamina or magicka.

Now I would not say nerf them I would instead incourage a buff.

Instead of making them weaker and increasing everyone's survivability. What about decreasing everyone's survivability?

By increasing the overall damage output you make the game more challenging

Lower the TTK? Why? If anything we need to increase it! Against a random who won't break free, all it takes is 2 jabs and a RD to kill them. We don't need that to get any shorter. Lower damage and lower healing.

Olupajmibanan

binho wrote: »

I completely disagree with the opinion that a magicka nightblade shouldn't even try fighting a magicka DK.
In PVP every class should have a fighting chance against another class.
It's not a "L2p issue", it's a "balance" issue that needs to be addressed

That's not entirely correct.

In pvp every class should have advantage over some but disadvantages to another.

Not stating this, just a completely random example: Let's say DK should be strong against NBs (should be strong, but not automaticaly win) but weak to Templars. Templars should be strong against DKs but weak against Wardens. And so on.
This is needed to ensure diversity in gameplay. If every class should stand equal chance to any other, what's the point of making classes then?

fred4

FerrumnCutem wrote: »

I realise the whole point of magblade is the buffing and debuffing aspect, but that takes waaay too much time in PvP situations.

This is actually my pet peeve. I love my stam DK. She has 5 buffs in total, but she'll do fine when you rush in without them. It's a more immediate and forgiving playstyle than mag NB.

I have been trying to play my mag NB as a heavy attack ganker lately, but I get the feeling that the people I'm able to gank, my DK would just steamroll as a matter of course.

Getting the buffs ready to boost the heavy attack is so slow. Cloak -> Merciless Resolve -> Cloak -> Magelight (Empower) -> Cloak -> Fire Destro Heavy Attack and ... CLOAK again. That last cloak seems necessary since Homestead, because heavy attack charging is now so slow the guaranteed crit from Shadowy Disguise runs out before the heavy attack lands (tested on Target Skeleton). The recloak AFTER the heavy attack actually guarantees the crit, once the attack lands. Unfortunately that leaves you with another global cooldown before you can do anything else.

Everything is so deliberate about my mag NB, it doesn't lend itself to reacting to the environment. Let's say the last member of a zerg is approaching a door in IC. I have a 5 second ritual to get my fully empowered heavy attack ready. By that time he's long moved on to the next district. It's not like that attack alone would kill him, by the way, but the burst from stealth seems my only advantage. Better to make the most of it.

Typically what I see is that the damage from mag NBs is weak in PvP, except they are able to burst with a Merciless Resolve / Soul Tether combo now and again. This can be very powerful, yet I hate Merciless Resolve. It is so clunky and so telegraphed.

You can argue these are l2p issues, but I simply don't find mag NB enjoyable in PvP thus far. This has nothing to do with a lack of success, but the extremely methodical approach you need to get anything done. On my stam DK I can basically just wing it, and that's way more fun.

Chilla_Deluxe

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

Skullz11c wrote: »

I main a magblade and am very happy. Yes, a properly played mag DK usually will, and IMO should beat a magblade. I play mag DK as well and only die to a magblade when I make a fatal mistake. Problem here is you need to understand certain classes have counters and certain setups within a class will counter others.

No class should be able to dominate all other classes. Magdk with "the usual setup" is a hard counter to magblade with "the usual setup".

If you are so frustrated with magdks change your play style to counter them more.

Hate to say it because I would love my main to get a buff (although I don't think it's needed) but this seems to be a L2P issue.

How is it a l2p issue when u clearly stated a properly played dk should be better LMAO.

Using a MagDK as grounding for your so called "MagBlades are weak" claim is a very poorly constructed arguement. Most classes have another one that counters them.

TipsyDrow

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

This is just insane . Please tell me what on earth in supposed to do when approached by a mag dk ? ( besides try and cloak and run )

For one u gotta apply 4 buffs ( atleast my build ) siphoning strikes merciless resolve piercing mark and degeneration.

By the time u do that you a mag DK already has rooted u smacked you with a couple lashes and dropped a meteor on your face..

While being snared of course because DK has every tool knows to mankind.

ZOS - "Dont worry cripple them and throw some 2k swallow souls that should keep you alive"

Lord help us magblades

Here let kena help you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRWX9iG-_Ms&t=1529s

DeadlyRecluse

If a class that depends on mobility and evasion for survival has a hard time dealing with a class that thrives on denying mobility and evasion, I don't really see that as a problem.

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

DK has every tool knows to mankind.

Besides mobility, execute, and efficient direct damage...

mb10

I mainly play a magblade in PVP and they definitely need some love.

The only class in the game without a proper heal. I refuse to count healing ward as a heal due to it maybe healing someone else and please do not tell me sap essence is a heal when you have to be within 8 meters of your enemy when all your attacks are usually over 20 meters away and swallow soul is a decent recovery of health but it will NOT heal you properly in a fight.

Also magblades have no proper shields apart from dampen magicka which is available to everyone.

I think magblades are certainly useful in PVP and can be great but the other classes at the moment have such a clear advantage that its just not fair.

mb10

TipsyDrow wrote: »

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

This is just insane . Please tell me what on earth in supposed to do when approached by a mag dk ? ( besides try and cloak and run )

For one u gotta apply 4 buffs ( atleast my build ) siphoning strikes merciless resolve piercing mark and degeneration.

By the time u do that you a mag DK already has rooted u smacked you with a couple lashes and dropped a meteor on your face..

While being snared of course because DK has every tool knows to mankind.

ZOS - "Dont worry cripple them and throw some 2k swallow souls that should keep you alive"

Lord help us magblades

Here let kena help you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRWX9iG-_Ms&t=1529s

@TipsyDrow

Very easy to say "here let Kena help you" but Kena is one of the best mag nightblades and is at a very advanced level with the class. Not only that, he plays in a group with good team mates too so somebody struggling with mag NB shouldnt be shown the such a high level player and be told "here, be like this" because his play style comes from hours of experience and ofc as mentioned, the compliments of his team mates.

Furthermore, Ive actually used Kena's video and it gives great tips but I found crafting my own mag NB is much much better for me and works better solo which is what I play.

mb10

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

If a class that depends on mobility and evasion for survival has a hard time dealing with a class that thrives on denying mobility and evasion, I don't really see that as a problem.

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

DK has every tool knows to mankind.

Besides mobility, execute, and efficient direct damage...

hardly needs an execute in PVP when the hard and soft CCs come in every second and the flame damage hits pretty much everyone in PVP 25% or more harder.

No direct damage? lol.

cpuScientist

In other MMO's where there are huge amounts of classes. Yes there are and should be hard counters. But in this game with 4 classes. WTF. Who is the hard counter to a magDK? Magsorc? They have counters to each other. Magplar? They both have counterplay. StamClasses? Both have counterplay.

Now I'm not saying magDK is OP. Because well the same can be said for every class. There is no class out there that when a magsorc sees it, it has to take an immediate nope and streak away. No stam class has to nope away either. Magplar either. No class has to take such an immediate nope when they see any other class. EXCEPT magblades. The root is reflectable the spam which if you look at the animation doesn't make sense for it to be but is also reflectable. The burst is reflectable. You have to play an intense timing game waiting hoping wishing for that perfect timing of wings to go down long enough to set it up. And in duels it's doable. But when you run into magDK out in open world and your trying to sit there and solve this puzzle and a second person is on you wailing you, and you figure let me try and root this DK to give me so room and you end up rooting yourself instead. And dodge roll wasting stam then boom dead, because cloak is garbage.

Or you can play melee and be a gimped stamBlade basically.

I'm not trying to complain, it's doable and all that. But it's a hard counter a very hard counter. With nothing to counter back with like mines. There exists no true counterplay when these two classes meet. You just have to outskill the magDK by a nice amount and if it's someone whose competent and near equally skilled they will win. And with MagDK being the new FOTM/Y. That's gonna be a lot of fights you nope to.

psychotic13

I didn't read the whole thread, but my magblade is *** insane in PvP.

bowmanz607

play more at range and kite them. most mag dk dont use wings and gap closers. use cloak to reposition and keep kiting is one option.

if your swallow soul is only hitting for 2k, you need to buff your damage.

keep your dots up and time your merciless resolve with and ult and cc.

Immovable pots to help combat talons.

Skoria is a great set for burst damage to time with resolve or ult etc. Ultimately, dk really are counters to nb and require top notch play when playing against a competent opponent.