My problems with House Telvanni in the upcoming Morrowind chapter

MythicEmperor

Before I start, I would just like to acknowledge that yes, ESO: Morrowind has not come out yet, but based on what we've seen, House Telvanni is a bit messed up lore-wise.

My main gripe is their new design of the towers themselves. In the recent ESO live, they are simple stone towers that are overgrown with fungus. This is NOT how they were represented in Morrowind and the Dragonborn DLC for Skyrim. In TES: III, you can even grow your own tower. It involved soul gems, storm atronachs (if you used soul trap, you'll know what I mean) and a small mushroom spore that grows into a large tower (Tel Uvirith). Nowhere in any previous source do the Telvanni resort to generic stone towers like the commoners. They are built by and sustained purely by magic. Also, the spores themselves are a bit over the top (they do not resemble mushroom stems), but that is purely subjective and I can easily live with that.

This is no disrespect to the design team. It looks beautiful. It is the new lore that I take issue with, not your amazing craftsmanship.

My second and more minor issue is the Telvanni guards. Why are they wearing Redoran Watchmen helms? What happened to the amazingly cool and unique Telvanni cephalopod helms that are seen on Telvanni guards (and my Telvanni archmagister!) in Morrowind? It makes little sense for the Telvanni to adapt the design from House Redoran, or vice versa.

My final issue is the lack of the Telvanni council house. The council house in Morrowind was small for a reason! House Telvanni rarely involves itself in politics unless they are directly affected. This is why the council is small and is placed on the outskirts of Sadrith Mora, to symbolize Telvanni indifference. The same logic applied to Wolverine Hall. Furthermore, why place the council in Tel Naga, home of Master Neloth (if he's alive, of course, but I suspect he is). I doubt Neloth would like that very much, and the only theory I can explain this with is that maybe the Archmagister lives not in Tel Aruhn, but in Tel Naga, with Neloth being a Mouth or something similar. This is just a baseless theory, however.

Anyways, I am excited to see Morrowind in ESO (note I didn't say return, as I am mid-playthrough right now ), but there are a few things that I feel need to be changed. Also, I apologize for any typos, as I am writing this on my phone.

MythicEmperor

No one else cares about Great House Telvanni's lore? N'wahs...

mesmerizedish

Tel Vos was grown around a stone tower. It was treated as a special case, sure, but there's precedent.

What Rich Lambert was saying on ESO Live is that there's really not much fleshed-out lore surrounding the towers to begin with, so they played around with the ideas a bit. There's been no indication before this that the towers weren't pure fungus, but no one's ever actually said they are either.

I'm willing to roll with it after seeing how amazing Sadrith Mora looked on the live stream.

Rosveen

It's a classic case of "boring therefore wrong". One or two stone towers as an exception? Sure. But the majority of them should be proper mushroom towers. Morrowind wouldn't be Morrowind without its weirdness.

MopeyHat

It seems like a more natural evolution from Velothi architecture to me. Some ambitious Telvanni mage comes along after ESO, and rather than building a stone tower, skips to the fungus step entirely.

I do agree that I am not in love with all the armor in ESO Morrowind yet. I hope they make another pass over the glass armor that was shown on the Armigers.

mesmerizedish

Rosveen wrote: »

It's a classic case of "boring therefore wrong". One or two stone towers as an exception? Sure. But the majority of them should be proper mushroom towers. Morrowind wouldn't be Morrowind without its weirdness.

I really don't think there's a substantive difference on the weirdness scale between a mushroom tower with a stone skeleton and one without.

R1ckyDaMan

mesmerizedish wrote: »

so they played around with the ideas a bit.

That right there is what annoys me about game developers, they can never help themselves.

MythicEmperor

mesmerizedish wrote: »

Tel Vos was grown around a stone tower. It was treated as a special case, sure, but there's precedent.

What Rich Lambert was saying on ESO Live is that there's really not much fleshed-out lore surrounding the towers to begin with, so they played around with the ideas a bit. There's been no indication before this that the towers weren't pure fungus, but no one's ever actually said they are either.

I'm willing to roll with it after seeing how amazing Sadrith Mora looked on the live stream.

Tel Vos was only the work of the one Telvanni master who was willing to put the needs of others before his. Hopefully this won't be the case for most, as the Telvanni are characteristically uncaring and eccentric. The proof of the towers being pure fungus is in Morrowind, where you grow one yourself. It starts out as a pod in the middle of nowhere with no prebuilt structures. It grows over the course of days, and never is stone visible or mentioned.

Here is some dialogue that lacks any mention of stone:
"The master wizards of House Telvanni traditionally grow their homes from fungal spores, using secret methods known only to themselves"

You can also observe how, except for in Tel Vos (and again, Master Aryon is the open-minded exception), no stone is visible in the construction of the towers or pods, which are grown from the roots of the main, central tower. Also, there are no stairs to these towers as well, and instead a root-like ramp leads up to the door.

I wonder how they will explain the lack of levitation as the Levitation Act of 421 has not been passed yet.

mesmerizedish wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

It's a classic case of "boring therefore wrong". One or two stone towers as an exception? Sure. But the majority of them should be proper mushroom towers. Morrowind wouldn't be Morrowind without its weirdness.

I really don't think there's a substantive difference on the weirdness scale between a mushroom tower with a stone skeleton and one without.

It is the fact that the Telvanni towers are no longer organic that bothers me. They are no longer giant mushrooms, but stone towers covered in spores. They are missing the point.

rysc

MopeyHat wrote: »

It seems like a more natural evolution from Velothi architecture to me. Some ambitious Telvanni mage comes along after ESO, and rather than building a stone tower, skips to the fungus step entirely.

maybe its a fertilizing base structure to allow the mushroom to grow and consume, slowly replacing the "stone" with just mushroom? And by TES3 they had evolved enough to do away with the structure and just go hard core shroom?

thebattlesaintb14_ESO

700 years between the two. Maybe the Telvanni scum are just starting to plant their infernal shrooms.

Seriously, enough with the "hurr durr makes it look like morrowind!! or I'll be triggered" ESO is not morrowind. ESO isn't even 3rd age.

Give it a rest.

MythicEmperor

thebattlesaintb14_ESO wrote: »

700 years between the two. Maybe the Telvanni scum are just starting to plant their infernal shrooms.

Seriously, enough with the "hurr durr makes it look like morrowind!! or I'll be triggered" ESO is not morrowind. ESO isn't even 3rd age.

Give it a rest.

Scum? SCUM???? Die, Fetcher!

Well, if Morrowind wants to cash on my nostalgia, they have to at least get House Telvanni right. They are by far my favorite faction, and as someone who is so passionate about them, I just want to point out my perspective to the devs, not that they'll listen.

Maybe its a waste of my time, but I just hope that ZOS will take another look at this.

MythicEmperor

rysc wrote: »

MopeyHat wrote: »

It seems like a more natural evolution from Velothi architecture to me. Some ambitious Telvanni mage comes along after ESO, and rather than building a stone tower, skips to the fungus step entirely.

maybe its a fertilizing base structure to allow the mushroom to grow and consume, slowly replacing the "stone" with just mushroom? And by TES3 they had evolved enough to do away with the structure and just go hard core shroom?

Maybe, but to me it just seems like a pointless change that makes little sense.

BlackSparrow

Yeah, if that's the direction they're going with it, I'm definitely disappointed.

Telvanni towers were easily among the most unique, interesting, and memorable things about Morrowind's setting. They helped me fall absolutely in love with Telvanni lore, so that they're easily my favorite of the Great Houses (which is not to say I think they're good people, not at all XD ). Watering down that uniqueness to give the game more stone brick boxes, just with a little sprinkle of flavor? All I can say to that is

Gilvoth

MythicEmperor wrote: »

Before I start, I would just like to acknowledge that yes, ESO: Morrowind has not come out yet, but based on what we've seen, House Telvanni is a bit messed up lore-wise.

My main gripe is their new design of the towers themselves. In the recent ESO live, they are simple stone towers that are overgrown with fungus. This is NOT how they were represented in Morrowind and the Dragonborn DLC for Skyrim. In TES: III, you can even grow your own tower. It involved soul gems, storm atronachs (if you used soul trap, you'll know what I mean) and a small mushroom spore that grows into a large tower (Tel Uvirith). Nowhere in any previous source do the Telvanni resort to generic stone towers like the commoners. They are built by and sustained purely by magic. Also, the spores themselves are a bit over the top (they do not resemble mushroom stems), but that is purely subjective and I can easily live with that.

This is no disrespect to the design team. It looks beautiful. It is the new lore that I take issue with, not your amazing craftsmanship.

My second and more minor issue is the Telvanni guards. Why are they wearing Redoran Watchmen helms? What happened to the amazingly cool and unique Telvanni cephalopod helms that are seen on Telvanni guards (and my Telvanni archmagister!) in Morrowind? It makes little sense for the Telvanni to adapt the design from House Redoran, or vice versa.

My final issue is the lack of the Telvanni council house. The council house in Morrowind was small for a reason! House Telvanni rarely involves itself in politics unless they are directly affected. This is why the council is small and is placed on the outskirts of Sadrith Mora, to symbolize Telvanni indifference. The same logic applied to Wolverine Hall. Furthermore, why place the council in Tel Naga, home of Master Neloth (if he's alive, of course, but I suspect he is). I doubt Neloth would like that very much, and the only theory I can explain this with is that maybe the Archmagister lives not in Tel Aruhn, but in Tel Naga, with Neloth being a Mouth or something similar. This is just a baseless theory, however.

Anyways, I am excited to see Morrowind in ESO (note I didn't say return, as I am mid-playthrough right now ), but there are a few things that I feel need to be changed. Also, I apologize for any typos, as I am writing this on my phone.

the reason is because the devs want what they want, and they make it up as they go along to justify thier reasoning to get what they want.
what the lore says or what was in morrowind is just not used as a constant.
instead it is used as a base for ideas to grow, and that is wrong in my opinion but, it is better then nothing and it does HINT to what we had in morrowind. and for that is better then any other mmo i can find that resembles morrowind and Vvardenfell.

MythicEmperor

BlackSparrow wrote: »

Yeah, if that's the direction they're going with it, I'm definitely disappointed.

Telvanni towers were easily among the most unique, interesting, and memorable things about Morrowind's setting. They helped me fall absolutely in love with Telvanni lore, so that they're easily my favorite of the Great Houses (which is not to say I think they're good people, not at all XD ). Watering down that uniqueness to give the game more stone brick boxes, just with a little sprinkle of flavor? All I can say to that is

I agree completely. It is a shame that they are trying to remedy a problem that never existed.

thebattlesaintb14_ESO

Telvanni and their flirtation with necromancy are affront to the Tribunal! Only House Redoran is true to the dunmer people!!!

Never liked the Telvanni, creepy, smelled like cabbage......

MopeyHat

MythicEmperor wrote: »

I wonder how they will explain the lack of levitation as the Levitation Act of 421 has not been passed yet.

The devs mentioned that limited levitation is available. There is what I assume to a levitation pad visible from the ESO Live stream in the base of the Telvanni towers.

MythicEmperor wrote: »

rysc wrote: »

MopeyHat wrote: »

It seems like a more natural evolution from Velothi architecture to me. Some ambitious Telvanni mage comes along after ESO, and rather than building a stone tower, skips to the fungus step entirely.

maybe its a fertilizing base structure to allow the mushroom to grow and consume, slowly replacing the "stone" with just mushroom? And by TES3 they had evolved enough to do away with the structure and just go hard core shroom?

Maybe, but to me it just seems like a pointless change that makes little sense.

It makes more sense than the ancestors of the Telvanni just randomly deciding to live in mushrooms. I mean, sure, some mage with more Sheogorathic tendencies might do it, but would a whole clan follow suit? Why not evolve the stone mage towers, which were also readily seen in TES3?

Birdovic

The only tower made of stones was Tel Vos, so I was confused too.
Also they said it takes a 1000 years to finish the tower, in TES III I did that in way less than a year
And yes, where are the cephalopod helmets I loved enchanting them
I can see them coming with crown store already

UrQuan

MythicEmperor wrote: »

Before I start, I would just like to acknowledge that yes, ESO: Morrowind has not come out yet, but based on what we've seen, House Telvanni is a bit messed up lore-wise.

My main gripe is their new design of the towers themselves. In the recent ESO live, they are simple stone towers that are overgrown with fungus. This is NOT how they were represented in Morrowind and the Dragonborn DLC for Skyrim. In TES: III, you can even grow your own tower. It involved soul gems, storm atronachs (if you used soul trap, you'll know what I mean) and a small mushroom spore that grows into a large tower (Tel Uvirith). Nowhere in any previous source do the Telvanni resort to generic stone towers like the commoners. They are built by and sustained purely by magic. Also, the spores themselves are a bit over the top (they do not resemble mushroom stems), but that is purely subjective and I can easily live with that.

They probably haven't developed the techniques for growing those towers yet. Remember this is about 800 years prior to Morrowind.

MythicEmperor wrote: »

This is no disrespect to the design team. It looks beautiful. It is the new lore that I take issue with, not your amazing craftsmanship.

My second and more minor issue is the Telvanni guards. Why are they wearing Redoran Watchmen helms? What happened to the amazingly cool and unique Telvanni cephalopod helms that are seen on Telvanni guards (and my Telvanni archmagister!) in Morrowind? It makes little sense for the Telvanni to adapt the design from House Redoran, or vice versa.

Again, they probably haven't come up with that distinctive design yet. The Redoran helms are probably just more traditional dunmer helms that in this time period were used by many houses, and Telvanni later came up with a distinct design to use that would make them easily distinguishable.

MythicEmperor

thebattlesaintb14_ESO wrote: »

Telvanni and their flirtation with necromancy are affront to the Tribunal! Only House Redoran is true to the dunmer people!!!

Never liked the Telvanni, creepy, smelled like cabbage......

Where was the Tribunal when the Akaviri slaughtered my family? They have done nothing for me, and I cannot respect them. My faith lies only in my magical prowess.

Never liked the Redoran. Pious, honorable: honor is a fool's tool.

MythicEmperor

UrQuan wrote: »

MythicEmperor wrote: »

Before I start, I would just like to acknowledge that yes, ESO: Morrowind has not come out yet, but based on what we've seen, House Telvanni is a bit messed up lore-wise.

My main gripe is their new design of the towers themselves. In the recent ESO live, they are simple stone towers that are overgrown with fungus. This is NOT how they were represented in Morrowind and the Dragonborn DLC for Skyrim. In TES: III, you can even grow your own tower. It involved soul gems, storm atronachs (if you used soul trap, you'll know what I mean) and a small mushroom spore that grows into a large tower (Tel Uvirith). Nowhere in any previous source do the Telvanni resort to generic stone towers like the commoners. They are built by and sustained purely by magic. Also, the spores themselves are a bit over the top (they do not resemble mushroom stems), but that is purely subjective and I can easily live with that.

They probably haven't developed the techniques for growing those towers yet. Remember this is about 800 years prior to Morrowind.

MythicEmperor wrote: »

This is no disrespect to the design team. It looks beautiful. It is the new lore that I take issue with, not your amazing craftsmanship.

My second and more minor issue is the Telvanni guards. Why are they wearing Redoran Watchmen helms? What happened to the amazingly cool and unique Telvanni cephalopod helms that are seen on Telvanni guards (and my Telvanni archmagister!) in Morrowind? It makes little sense for the Telvanni to adapt the design from House Redoran, or vice versa.

Again, they probably haven't come up with that distinctive design yet. The Redoran helms are probably just more traditional dunmer helms that in this time period were used by many houses, and Telvanni later came up with a distinct design to use that would make them easily distinguishable.

1. The devs made it fairly clear that the towers take hundreds of years to develop. How then do they magically change in structure in that short time? (These are powerful wizards, remember; Divayth Fyr is rumored to be 4000 years old)

2. This just seems lazy to me. Why change it with no real reason?

BlackSparrow

UrQuan wrote: »

MythicEmperor wrote: »

Before I start, I would just like to acknowledge that yes, ESO: Morrowind has not come out yet, but based on what we've seen, House Telvanni is a bit messed up lore-wise.

My main gripe is their new design of the towers themselves. In the recent ESO live, they are simple stone towers that are overgrown with fungus. This is NOT how they were represented in Morrowind and the Dragonborn DLC for Skyrim. In TES: III, you can even grow your own tower. It involved soul gems, storm atronachs (if you used soul trap, you'll know what I mean) and a small mushroom spore that grows into a large tower (Tel Uvirith). Nowhere in any previous source do the Telvanni resort to generic stone towers like the commoners. They are built by and sustained purely by magic. Also, the spores themselves are a bit over the top (they do not resemble mushroom stems), but that is purely subjective and I can easily live with that.

They probably haven't developed the techniques for growing those towers yet. Remember this is about 800 years prior to Morrowind.

MythicEmperor wrote: »

This is no disrespect to the design team. It looks beautiful. It is the new lore that I take issue with, not your amazing craftsmanship.

My second and more minor issue is the Telvanni guards. Why are they wearing Redoran Watchmen helms? What happened to the amazingly cool and unique Telvanni cephalopod helms that are seen on Telvanni guards (and my Telvanni archmagister!) in Morrowind? It makes little sense for the Telvanni to adapt the design from House Redoran, or vice versa.

Again, they probably haven't come up with that distinctive design yet. The Redoran helms are probably just more traditional dunmer helms that in this time period were used by many houses, and Telvanni later came up with a distinct design to use that would make them easily distinguishable.

For me, it's less about whether it's justifiable in-lore, and more the disappointment of having one of the most flavorful parts of the overall setting watered down.

Honestly, if they took the full fungus towers and went in an entirely new creative direction with it, I wouldn't mind. But getting rid of the full mushrooms just to add more stone buildings? That's not creative or interesting. It's taking something that was entirely unique about the setting and dragging it back in the direction of being like all the architecture from every other fantasy game ever. IMO, that's just the wrong creative direction to take something that's this cool and unique, and whether it's justifiable in-lore isn't going to change my opinion on that.

UrQuan

MythicEmperor wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

MythicEmperor wrote: »

Before I start, I would just like to acknowledge that yes, ESO: Morrowind has not come out yet, but based on what we've seen, House Telvanni is a bit messed up lore-wise.

My main gripe is their new design of the towers themselves. In the recent ESO live, they are simple stone towers that are overgrown with fungus. This is NOT how they were represented in Morrowind and the Dragonborn DLC for Skyrim. In TES: III, you can even grow your own tower. It involved soul gems, storm atronachs (if you used soul trap, you'll know what I mean) and a small mushroom spore that grows into a large tower (Tel Uvirith). Nowhere in any previous source do the Telvanni resort to generic stone towers like the commoners. They are built by and sustained purely by magic. Also, the spores themselves are a bit over the top (they do not resemble mushroom stems), but that is purely subjective and I can easily live with that.

They probably haven't developed the techniques for growing those towers yet. Remember this is about 800 years prior to Morrowind.

MythicEmperor wrote: »

This is no disrespect to the design team. It looks beautiful. It is the new lore that I take issue with, not your amazing craftsmanship.

My second and more minor issue is the Telvanni guards. Why are they wearing Redoran Watchmen helms? What happened to the amazingly cool and unique Telvanni cephalopod helms that are seen on Telvanni guards (and my Telvanni archmagister!) in Morrowind? It makes little sense for the Telvanni to adapt the design from House Redoran, or vice versa.

Again, they probably haven't come up with that distinctive design yet. The Redoran helms are probably just more traditional dunmer helms that in this time period were used by many houses, and Telvanni later came up with a distinct design to use that would make them easily distinguishable.

1. The devs made it fairly clear that the towers take hundreds of years to develop. How then do they magically change in structure in that short time? (These are powerful wizards, remember; Divayth Fyr is rumored to be 4000 years old)

Hundreds of years? Like how ESO is set hundreds of years prior to Morrowind? Remember, "hundreds of years" could refer to a time frame as small as 200 years. ESO is set about 800 years prior to Morrowind. There's plenty of time.

MythicEmperor wrote: »

2. This just seems lazy to me. Why change it with no real reason?

Styles change all the time in real life. Look at how different the Phrygian helmet was from the Boeotian helmet, yet the first was famously used by Macedonian cavalry under Philip, while the second was famously used by the same Macedonian cavalry under his son, Alexander. This just seems lazy to me. Why change it with no real reason?

ArchMikem

I find it funny how people disrespect the Argonians for living in mud and clay huts, and the Wood Elves for living in Trees.

But then the high and mighty Dunmer live in giant Mushrooms.

thebattlesaintb14_ESO

No, THOSE perverse and twisted Dunmer live in mushrooms. I prefer the traditional stone construction such as demonstrated in Mournhold.

mesmerizedish

R1ckyDaMan wrote: »

mesmerizedish wrote: »

so they played around with the ideas a bit.

That right there is what annoys me about game developers, they can never help themselves.

That mindset is actively harmful to the development of the medium. It's why we have annual Calls of Duty and Assassin's Creeds, each indistinguishable from the last.

Back in '97 and '98, Kurt Kuhlmann, Michael Kirkbride, and Todd Howard got together and dramatically revised the lore behind TES, which until then had been derivative and generic fantasy. It's because of that rewrite that we got crazy stuff like Telvanni towers to begin with, but if you'd have had your way, we'd be stuck with watered-down Tolkien tripe like every other fantasy setting.

Let developers change and flesh out pre-existing lore. It's the only way a setting can make any progress.

MythicEmperor wrote: »

mesmerizedish wrote: »

Tel Vos was grown around a stone tower. It was treated as a special case, sure, but there's precedent.

What Rich Lambert was saying on ESO Live is that there's really not much fleshed-out lore surrounding the towers to begin with, so they played around with the ideas a bit. There's been no indication before this that the towers weren't pure fungus, but no one's ever actually said they are either.

I'm willing to roll with it after seeing how amazing Sadrith Mora looked on the live stream.

Tel Vos was only the work of the one Telvanni master who was willing to put the needs of others before his. Hopefully this won't be the case for most, as the Telvanni are characteristically uncaring and eccentric. The proof of the towers being pure fungus is in Morrowind, where you grow one yourself. It starts out as a pod in the middle of nowhere with no prebuilt structures. It grows over the course of days, and never is stone visible or mentioned.

Here is some dialogue that lacks any mention of stone:
"The master wizards of House Telvanni traditionally grow their homes from fungal spores, using secret methods known only to themselves"

You can also observe how, except for in Tel Vos (and again, Master Aryon is the open-minded exception), no stone is visible in the construction of the towers or pods, which are grown from the roots of the main, central tower. Also, there are no stairs to these towers as well, and instead a root-like ramp leads up to the door.

I wonder how they will explain the lack of levitation as the Levitation Act of 421 has not been passed yet.

There is absolutely no connection between Tel Vos's stone underpinnings and Aryon's relative altruism. You're gonna have to actually articulate some basis if you want me to accept that

I think it's pretty clear that there's more than one way to grow a mushroom. You have Tel Uvirith grown without a skeleton. Tel Vos was grown with one. Even if we accept that it is just a straight-up retcon (and I'll definitely say that that point is almost unarguable), you have to make a case about why it's bad. As for levitation, there will be levitation. It will be handled like Tel Mithryn was in Dragonborn.

MythicEmperor wrote: »

mesmerizedish wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

It's a classic case of "boring therefore wrong". One or two stone towers as an exception? Sure. But the majority of them should be proper mushroom towers. Morrowind wouldn't be Morrowind without its weirdness.

I really don't think there's a substantive difference on the weirdness scale between a mushroom tower with a stone skeleton and one without.

It is the fact that the Telvanni towers are no longer organic that bothers me. They are no longer giant mushrooms, but stone towers covered in spores. They are missing the point.

Exactly what point are they missing? Again, there's no substantive difference here.

It makes more physical sense to have that skeleton, because of the square-cube law. Yes, "magic" is an easy way around that, and we haven't got a lot of information surrounding the actual rules of magic, but we do know that greater feats require greater amounts of magicka. So, it makes sense that the greater the tower, the more magicka it would take to support it. Thus, it would be far easier to grow a tower around a pre-existing frame than to grow it freestanding.

It's simply not true that they're "no longer organic." What we know is that Tel Naga is grown around a stone tower. In nature, trees and other plants can grow around stone or metal. That doesn't make those plants "no longer organic."

I get that things are no longer exactly the way you assumed them to be, and that can be a bit of a blow no matter what the circumstances are. But you haven't made any convincing arguments as to what this small detail actually changes.

MythicEmperor

mesmerizedish wrote: »

There is absolutely no connection between Tel Vos's stone underpinnings and Aryon's relative altruism. You're gonna have to actually articulate some basis if you want me to accept that

My bad; I thought the connection was quite obvious. Allow me to elaborate.

Everything about Tel Vos, from its geographic location to its architecture, is a display of Aryon's young and open-minded nature.

1. Tel Vos, besides Tel Uvirith, is the only Telvanni tower not on an island (presumably, the player takes after his/her patron). This defies tradition.

2. Tel Vos is pushed further than what was typically thought to be the Telvanni's sphere of influence on Vvardenfell. This shows his eagerness to push further and change what is established.

3. As I said previously, Tel Vos was grown over an Imperial fort. How does this display his relative altruism? It is the perfect display of his open mindedness. His willingness to push and change what was thought of as traditional led him to his unique tower. If you judge the tower's stone base in a vacuum, it can make it seem normal. If, however, you pay attention to the tower's other qualities that I discussed, along with dialogue in-game and his great support of the player (while the other masters cared little), one can infer that the tower's design was meant as a statement about Aryon's personality.

This is why I have a problem with the new design. Tel Vos was a symbol of progress; it was a break from tradition. If all old Telvanni structures were built in this fashion, however, it makes Tel Vos the traditional tower. It makes little sense, which is why I said they are missing the point.

MythicEmperor

MopeyHat wrote: »

MythicEmperor wrote: »

I wonder how they will explain the lack of levitation as the Levitation Act of 421 has not been passed yet.

The devs mentioned that limited levitation is available. There is what I assume to a levitation pad visible from the ESO Live stream in the base of the Telvanni towers.

What I meant was how they will explain the use of pads over raw magic. They explained their laziness in Oblivion with the Levitation Act, but before that, levitation should have been allowed. Tel Mithryn only has a magical pad because of the act, Dumac take it; otherwise, it would be the same as the rest. Why would any Telvanni worth their salts want to make it easy for the common filth to scale their towers? The whole point of the levitation requirement was to make it so that only the worthy could speak with the councilors face to face. The peasants would be forced to deal with the mouths, as it should be.

Browiseth

yeah, how dare something be different right

morrowind needs to look the exact same as it did before

zos stop having creativity

zos stop trying to mix things up

i don't like it when things are different

stop it

Browiseth

R1ckyDaMan wrote: »

mesmerizedish wrote: »

so they played around with the ideas a bit.

That right there is what annoys me about game developers, they can never help themselves.

@R1ckyDaMan yeah, developers just can't help being creative with a desire to make something interesting and different

i can't believe it either

R1ckyDaMan

Browiseth wrote: »

R1ckyDaMan wrote: »

mesmerizedish wrote: »

so they played around with the ideas a bit.

That right there is what annoys me about game developers, they can never help themselves.

@R1ckyDaMan yeah, developers just can't help being creative with a desire to make something interesting and different

i can't believe it either

The saying if it isn't broken don't fix it comes to mind.
And creative, more stone walls yay!