Removal of cp in trueflame

alexkdd99 · February 2017

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

alexkdd99 wrote: »

c0rp wrote: »

OhAmex wrote: »

Doing this makes me want to quit pvp now.

There was Azuras for no CP campaign.

Should bring cp back to trueflame

It's ONE week in an effort to improve the game for everyone...including YOU. GROW UP.

Yea because your comment is something mature? All these people jumping on op need to grow up. He said nothing wrong and all these forum warriors jumped on him for a legitimate complaint.

What's the point in having cp if you can't use them. We already have a no cp campaign if they truly just wanted to test it, they would have made azura double ap only and left everything as is.

Also why even test removing cp of it wasn't a possibility to make it permanent. Not saying it will happen, but to act like it's not a possibility is close minded.

Because it is a fact that Azura is less laggy than TF even when the campaign is pop-locked. Yes, Azura is pop-locked on PC-EU on prime time. And no, if it is proven that CP is the main reason to cause lag, they will take a look at all those codes behind the CP system, streamline and rewrite them so everything can become smoother.

I belive zos has made statements before about the code being a mess. Time has shown us they are unable to streamline the code like you are suggesting. Anytime they make minor changes you see big problems. If it is a fact as you say that azura has less lag then you would think they already know what's causing the issues in pvp.

There is 3 different types of pvp, and has been for awhile. Below 50 pvp, no cp, regular cp. Plenty of opportunity to test any and everything.

bowmanz607 · February 2017

alexkdd99 wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

alexkdd99 wrote: »

c0rp wrote: »

OhAmex wrote: »

Doing this makes me want to quit pvp now.

There was Azuras for no CP campaign.

Should bring cp back to trueflame

It's ONE week in an effort to improve the game for everyone...including YOU. GROW UP.

Yea because your comment is something mature? All these people jumping on op need to grow up. He said nothing wrong and all these forum warriors jumped on him for a legitimate complaint.

What's the point in having cp if you can't use them. We already have a no cp campaign if they truly just wanted to test it, they would have made azura double ap only and left everything as is.

Also why even test removing cp of it wasn't a possibility to make it permanent. Not saying it will happen, but to act like it's not a possibility is close minded.

You clearly have no experience in software testing and development if you're saying that. It's to gather baseline data for all campaigns across the board so that they can make incremental changes for future tests and compare the data from those tests to the data from the baseline test in order to track down what's truly causing the issues. Once the biggest culprits have been identified then they can dig into the code for those culprits to determine what's the root cause, and implement a fix.

Seems they have already identified the culprit, cp. They have had ample opportunity to test the server with and without cp. And I do have some experience in software development and testing, but I am no expert.

My main point in the post was all the people jumping on op for a valid opinion. I did not find it necessary for all the hate.

they did not identify it. the purpose is to see if cp is a huge issue. but it is more then cp from a broad scope. they are trying to figure out what in cp is causing issue specifically.

When did they have ample opportunity to test? this is the opportunity.

Op seems to think that cp or gone for good. this is not the case and one reason people started on it. Another is that people think cp should go entirley which is also a valid counter opinion to OP opinion. which we are entitled to.

SGT_Wolfe101st · February 2017

danno8 wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

bottleofsyrup wrote: »

Why does everybody act like this is permanent?

Because for some people it's fun to manufacture outrage.

I am outraged at your statement.

Well I am outraged that you're outraged about his statement about manufactured outrage, thus my outrage will grow, dare I say outrageous...

bowmanz607 · February 2017

alexkdd99 wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

alexkdd99 wrote: »

c0rp wrote: »

OhAmex wrote: »

Doing this makes me want to quit pvp now.

There was Azuras for no CP campaign.

Should bring cp back to trueflame

It's ONE week in an effort to improve the game for everyone...including YOU. GROW UP.

Yea because your comment is something mature? All these people jumping on op need to grow up. He said nothing wrong and all these forum warriors jumped on him for a legitimate complaint.

What's the point in having cp if you can't use them. We already have a no cp campaign if they truly just wanted to test it, they would have made azura double ap only and left everything as is.

Also why even test removing cp of it wasn't a possibility to make it permanent. Not saying it will happen, but to act like it's not a possibility is close minded.

Because it is a fact that Azura is less laggy than TF even when the campaign is pop-locked. Yes, Azura is pop-locked on PC-EU on prime time. And no, if it is proven that CP is the main reason to cause lag, they will take a look at all those codes behind the CP system, streamline and rewrite them so everything can become smoother.

I belive zos has made statements before about the code being a mess. Time has shown us they are unable to streamline the code like you are suggesting. Anytime they make minor changes you see big problems. If it is a fact as you say that azura has less lag then you would think they already know what's causing the issues in pvp.

There is 3 different types of pvp, and has been for awhile. Below 50 pvp, no cp, regular cp. Plenty of opportunity to test any and everything.

not on a large scale. you have to have more then a few small sample sizes. this makes all platforms and servers a testing ground. they stated what they have now is not enough. they need more.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · February 2017

So sorry you don't have infinite resources anymore and actually have to build for sustain.

Also keep in mind that when the Crapeon system was implemented, ZOS stole about 3-4k of resources from each pool (stamina and magicka) and locked it behind the champion system for us to grind back. I think you need about 400 CP to break even to what you used to have back in 1.5, when PvP worked well and was much more balanced.

Ideally ZOS should give back the 3-4k of resources they stole on non-CP campaigns via but IIRC battle spirit is coded universally and its hard for them to re-code it. Or they just don't want to.

But the point is that non-CP would feel a lot less brutal for people coming from CP campains if the base resource pools were a bit bigger (like they were in 1.5) but the regens would still be lower so it would still be a good sustain meta.

Jailbirdy · February 2017

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Ojustaboo wrote: »

Wrekkedd wrote: »

First off, nobody cares. Secondly, it's only for a week.

First off, they obviously do care

Secondly, ZoS implied that if it fixes the lag (which I doubt as we had lag before CP) , it could end up being permanent.

The attitude of some people on this forum beggars belief

They never said nor implied this. Cp won't be taken away. I want it to be. But it wont. This is simply one test to see ho2 and if they should change some things with cp. Not remove them.

they should know,, they already have no CP servers

bowmanz607 · February 2017

Jailbirdy wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Ojustaboo wrote: »

Wrekkedd wrote: »

First off, nobody cares. Secondly, it's only for a week.

First off, they obviously do care

Secondly, ZoS implied that if it fixes the lag (which I doubt as we had lag before CP) , it could end up being permanent.

The attitude of some people on this forum beggars belief

They never said nor implied this. Cp won't be taken away. I want it to be. But it wont. This is simply one test to see ho2 and if they should change some things with cp. Not remove them.

they should know,, they already have no CP servers

as they said it was not enough. When you test something you dont just use a couple samples. You have to have many samples over a longer length of time. Azuras star is not in and of itself enough.

phairdon · February 2017

Might pop into the alliance war this week, just to experience life without CP. Back in 2014 we had no CP, just too long ago to remember what it was like.

UrQuan · February 2017

alexkdd99 wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

alexkdd99 wrote: »

c0rp wrote: »

OhAmex wrote: »

Doing this makes me want to quit pvp now.

There was Azuras for no CP campaign.

Should bring cp back to trueflame

It's ONE week in an effort to improve the game for everyone...including YOU. GROW UP.

Yea because your comment is something mature? All these people jumping on op need to grow up. He said nothing wrong and all these forum warriors jumped on him for a legitimate complaint.

What's the point in having cp if you can't use them. We already have a no cp campaign if they truly just wanted to test it, they would have made azura double ap only and left everything as is.

Also why even test removing cp of it wasn't a possibility to make it permanent. Not saying it will happen, but to act like it's not a possibility is close minded.

You clearly have no experience in software testing and development if you're saying that. It's to gather baseline data for all campaigns across the board so that they can make incremental changes for future tests and compare the data from those tests to the data from the baseline test in order to track down what's truly causing the issues. Once the biggest culprits have been identified then they can dig into the code for those culprits to determine what's the root cause, and implement a fix.

Seems they have already identified the culprit, cp.

No. They've identified that they believe CP calculations play a role. They haven't determined that for sure (although it's highly likely), and they haven't identified which types of CP calculations are causing issues or why. That's what the series of tests they're going to be doing is for.

alexkdd99 wrote: »

They have had ample opportunity to test the server with and without cp.

Really? When have they done these tests that I haven't heard about? This is the first time I've heard of them turning off CP for the campaigns while providing an incentive to ensure that the campaign populations are high for the duration of the test. What previous opportunities to get baseline data did I miss?

alexkdd99 wrote: »

And I do have some experience in software development and testing, but I am no expert.

My main point in the post was all the people jumping on op for a valid opinion. I did not find it necessary for all the hate.

It's only a valid opinion if you don't understand what's happening.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · February 2017

I think this is bad all around. If CP is this problematic remove them from the game and add a real system for progression.

UrQuan · February 2017

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

I think this is bad all around. If CP is this problematic remove them from the game and add a real system for progression.

You think testing to find out if CPs are really problematic for performance and if so to determine what exactly it is that makes them problematic is "bad all around"? Care to explain why it's bad to test assumptions in order to try to figure out what the real issues are?

Prof_Bawbag · February 2017

I like it. This time yesterday I was my usual fodder, today I managed to hold my own even against zergs. It actually highlights how many people are overly sensitive when they get found out for what they are, average players. Half the people complaining about it in-game are the usual badass gobshites that are now getting found out for what they are, average players. All things being more or less equal now, they have nothing to boast about. in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if some of these people disappeared until next week.

hmsdragonfly · February 2017

alexkdd99 wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

alexkdd99 wrote: »

c0rp wrote: »

OhAmex wrote: »

Doing this makes me want to quit pvp now.

There was Azuras for no CP campaign.

Should bring cp back to trueflame

It's ONE week in an effort to improve the game for everyone...including YOU. GROW UP.

Yea because your comment is something mature? All these people jumping on op need to grow up. He said nothing wrong and all these forum warriors jumped on him for a legitimate complaint.

What's the point in having cp if you can't use them. We already have a no cp campaign if they truly just wanted to test it, they would have made azura double ap only and left everything as is.

Also why even test removing cp of it wasn't a possibility to make it permanent. Not saying it will happen, but to act like it's not a possibility is close minded.

Because it is a fact that Azura is less laggy than TF even when the campaign is pop-locked. Yes, Azura is pop-locked on PC-EU on prime time. And no, if it is proven that CP is the main reason to cause lag, they will take a look at all those codes behind the CP system, streamline and rewrite them so everything can become smoother.

I belive zos has made statements before about the code being a mess. Time has shown us they are unable to streamline the code like you are suggesting. Anytime they make minor changes you see big problems. If it is a fact as you say that azura has less lag then you would think they already know what's causing the issues in pvp.

There is 3 different types of pvp, and has been for awhile. Below 50 pvp, no cp, regular cp. Plenty of opportunity to test any and everything.

Dude that's not how things work.
What they see:
1) Azura is less laggy.
2) TF is more laggy.
It draws to the conclusion that CP could be an issue, it's not a fact that CP is the problem. They also don't know that how much of a problem it is, or which part of the CP system is causing lag, if it is truly a cause of lag. Now, after this test, if TF is still laggy, then CP isn't the problem. If it's slightly less laggy, then it's not the main cause. If it is much more less laggy, then tada, we find the issue here, so they can focus on fixing it, by streamlining or even rewriting then entire code behind the CP system, etc... No way would they remove CP system. But if you insist on believing that gibberish, that's fine, it's your choice taht you believe in gibberish.

makeumrage · February 2017

Everyone should accept things will be different in pvp. Its only for a week. [snip]. Get in there and play. Cap these servers out. Help them figure out what they need. Just play to have fun. Dont worry about dying or getting kills just play. Enjoy yourself. And do whatever you can to help make pvp beter for the future.

[Edit for inappropriate content]

Nyteshade · February 2017

When is this happening?

ScooberSteve · February 2017

Do you need help finding the exit in cyrodiil?

makeumrage · February 2017

Nyteshade wrote: »

When is this happening?

Now till the next monday. Get in PvP and get your double AP!!!

bulbousb16_ESO · February 2017

No-CP is a better experience all around. It should always be like this!

Lokey0024 · February 2017

Turelus wrote: »

OhAmex wrote: »

Doing this makes me want to quit pvp now.

There was Azuras for no CP campaign.

Should bring cp back to trueflame

Show me on the target skeleton where the experienced no CP players wrecked you.

binho · February 2017

There are no CP campaigns that are empty on EU PS4 Please feel free to play those campaigns rather then asking all campaigns to be no CP.
It seems a bit selfish that people expect everyone to play the way they want

Baronh2o · February 2017

RouDeR wrote: »

If only they cud buy new more powerful hardware and supply it with better I-net connection ;( but why bother , lets disable CP and try to find a solution with our Second grade coding skill to the bug that is causing the latency issue, yeyyyy !!!

ZOS: 1 week later , We found the bug , we fixed it
- consequences : 158 new bugs appear
- while riding mount cannot swap weapons
- while in combat cannot drink potions
- Using Shuffle makes your collision size 0 and you are able to walk trough rocks and walls
- Break Free immunity is disabled

#ZOS CODING

It's pretty obvious you don't work in the computer engineering field. If the code has base performance issues...throwing new upgraded fancy hardware at the problem won't really solve much.

If you get a spare moment look up algorithmic efficiency along with Big O notation. Constant vs linear vs logarithmic vs quadratic complexities etc.

Also given the above, the solution could very well be changing an algorithm in the code from quadratic to logarithmic for example. Hell of a performance increase but guess what? CP still active and what do you know lag gone!!!! (Just an example for my argument...I don't claim to have any real insight into the actual problem). I just want the people saying that if the performance improves that it definitely means the end to CP (it doesn't at all...see above explanation).

Let them test, let them tweak...and maybe we can get a better game for it!

Malamar1229 · February 2017

This is good. If it helps with performance great.

Siege will actually have a greater impact, as it should. Will cut into a lot of these invincible builds. Shouldnt have brought CP crutches into PvP from the start....

makeumrage · February 2017

Malamar1229 wrote: »

This is good. If it helps with performance great.

Siege will actually have a greater impact, as it should. Will cut into a lot of these invincible builds. Shouldnt have brought CP crutches into PvP from the start....

Eww no. No low life power bosting to 50 in 6 hours should have the same stats as my 2612 hours. CP is going anywhere. This is just a test. To see if it is the issue and if so rework the system.

RinaldoGandolphi · February 2017

@Malamar1229

You need to make a DC Mag Sorc so we can do Sorc things together! Could be really really fun!

You know you miss the Blueberry Faction!

cjthibs · February 2017

makeumrage wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

This is good. If it helps with performance great.

Siege will actually have a greater impact, as it should. Will cut into a lot of these invincible builds. Shouldnt have brought CP crutches into PvP from the start....

Eww no. No low life power bosting to 50 in 6 hours should have the same stats as my 2612 hours.

PvP is not about who has the bigger capacity to grind. ...You have no life, congratulations.
PvP should be able skill, i.e. actual ability to think and play the game, not skill to mindlessly kill the same mobs for 12 hours on end.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · February 2017

cjthibs wrote: »

makeumrage wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

This is good. If it helps with performance great.

Siege will actually have a greater impact, as it should. Will cut into a lot of these invincible builds. Shouldnt have brought CP crutches into PvP from the start....

Eww no. No low life power bosting to 50 in 6 hours should have the same stats as my 2612 hours.

PvP is not about who has the bigger capacity to grind. ...You have no life, congratulations.
PvP should be able skill, i.e. actual ability to think and play the game, not skill to mindlessly kill the same mobs for 12 hours on end.

What this guy said. I've been PVPing since launch but get maybe 10 hours a week to play. I just reached Tribune this week. I'd welcome a boost to Grand Warlord, that doesn't require me to quit my job.

makeumrage · February 2017

cjthibs wrote: »

makeumrage wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

This is good. If it helps with performance great.

Siege will actually have a greater impact, as it should. Will cut into a lot of these invincible builds. Shouldnt have brought CP crutches into PvP from the start....

Eww no. No low life power bosting to 50 in 6 hours should have the same stats as my 2612 hours.

PvP is not about who has the bigger capacity to grind. ...You have no life, congratulations.
PvP should be able skill, i.e. actual ability to think and play the game, not skill to mindlessly kill the same mobs for 12 hours on end.

Lol no just played since launch. 2612 hours out of a possible 17,472 (two years) isnt alot. And yeah skill matters and should be the deciding factor. But in no way or means should Veteran players be at the same baseline as ones with less then 10 hours of playtime.

Btw- see gamercard, twitch stream, youtube, and leaderboard for my refernces based on skill lol.

stupiddog · February 2017

Baronh2o wrote: »

It's pretty obvious you don't work in the computer engineering field. If the code has base performance issues...throwing new upgraded fancy hardware at the problem won't really solve much.

<--- THIS. It is perfectly possible that not ALL CP abilities contribute to the server stress, but instead only a few of them are the problem. Instead of switching off CP completely, the devs can then find the culprits by switching them on with divide-and-conquer strategies (switch on a subset of CP abilities, if it works -> fine, if it does not -> switch on the first half / the second half, then divide again etc.).

A possible outcome of the analysis can be that some CP abilities are indeed a problem because they are too CPU-intensive. In that case, the devs might opt to change the way they work for PvP (different effect, roughly the same power if done properly). Having the same ability work differently in PvE and PvP is, of course, not great, but it can be done.

cjthibs · February 2017

makeumrage wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

makeumrage wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

This is good. If it helps with performance great.

Siege will actually have a greater impact, as it should. Will cut into a lot of these invincible builds. Shouldnt have brought CP crutches into PvP from the start....

Eww no. No low life power bosting to 50 in 6 hours should have the same stats as my 2612 hours.

PvP is not about who has the bigger capacity to grind. ...You have no life, congratulations.
PvP should be able skill, i.e. actual ability to think and play the game, not skill to mindlessly kill the same mobs for 12 hours on end.

Lol no just played since launch. 2612 hours out of a possible 17,472 (two years) isnt alot. And yeah skill matters and should be the deciding factor. But in no way or means should Veteran players be at the same baseline as ones with less then 10 hours of playtime.

Actually, yes it does, and you just contradicted yourself.

If veterans and newbs aren't placed in a similar spot then it doesn't come down to skill.

BRogueNZ · February 2017

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

I like it. This time yesterday I was my usual fodder, today I managed to hold my own even against zergs. It actually highlights how many people are overly sensitive when they get found out for what they are, average players. Half the people complaining about it in-game are the usual badass gobshites that are now getting found out for what they are, average players. All things being more or less equal now, they have nothing to boast about. in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if some of these people disappeared until next week.

People will adjust their gear and builds, if they are really that bothered about being 'average'. It's only a week.