Can we please not put lvl 11 on dlc dungeons?

maltinkilic

I ve done all the dungeons with different toons on different lvl. When i first entered a dlc dungeon it was nightmare but i learnt to play with my main character, learnt the tactic of each and every dungeon. The problem with lvl 11's in dlc dungeon are not their lvls but their inexperience in the game and dlc dungeons are not so hard than non dlc ones (except veteran ones but since we are talking about lvl 11 they are out of context), but they require more tactics than the normal one. You simply cant bash your way in a dlc dungeon.

So when i am in a dlc dungeon(mostly wgt for farming spc) if there are low lvls i took a few minutes to explain the mechanics. Give them some explanation on what they are suppose to do. I tell them i can solo that place and they should not panic(half true except one boss). In most casr we wipe and when we wipe i tell them why we wiped and how to prevent that. In return we complete that dungeon and that newbies asks of they can add me as friend. Seriously my friendlist is full of alot of people i dont even remember except a few of them.

Long story short rather than kicking newbies or prwventing them to enter a dlc dungeon it is easier and more fruitfull to teach them. And trust me 95% of the time it works!

Elara_Northwind

Kneighbors wrote: »

SadieJoan wrote: »

neutronenstern wrote: »

lvl 11 can have more cp than youuuuu

Even so, I would NEVER dream of taking a new, lvl 11 character into a DLC dungeon with random people Its a disaster waiting to happen. If I were with friends and guildies, I would probably try it, and that would be ok, because they are my friends and they know me, and we would most likely complete it on normal mode if we were together, with random people, no way, I wouldn't go there

Bad news. There's alot of things you don't know about the game. My lvl 11 templar tank easily soloed Lord Warden in nICP while other players were dead applauding and were clueless like you. They didn't realise that it's really easy for me. Huge bonuses I get for low level (like 40k hp out of nowhere) 500cp spread between resistances and using correct skills (which are by the way already reached by level 10, yes!). So don't run away when you see tank or heal lvl 10 in dlc dungeons. Maybe this guy knows alil more than you about the game.

Well, maybe he does, and I agree that the dungeons in this game are ridiculously easy, my sorcerer likes to solo dungeons too, but I still would never go with randoms to the dlc dungeons, even on my cp600 characters, let alone with a new one.

Luckily I have great friends to do dlc dungeons with and do not need to worry about grouping with random people for such things, which is a bonus for a clueless person such as myself who knows nothing about a game I have played since Beta

me_ming

If you're a cp160+ and you can't carry (or the very least compliment yourself with) a level 10, there is something wrong with your build and how you understand of the dungeons. The only real advantage you have over a level 10 is the amount of skill you've unlocked. Their gear stats are of cp 160. But then again, even if you're wearing training level 10 gear it is still possible to complete normal dungeons, especially if everyone else is a capable cp player. I (cp capped) duo-ed nDSA with a level 20 something (helped him farm xp), a little issue with last boss, but we did it anyway. Point is normal dungeons for cp 160+ players (maybe even less) is really easy mode. If you aren't comfortable with your own abilities that you have to rely on someone else to complete normal dungeons the problem is your build, not how low their level is.

EvilCroc

nICP. Lord Warden. 57% dps with 13lvl stamblade. (561cp, of course). Other DD was 47lvl mag sorc with crystal frags spamming. Just saying.

Doctordarkspawn

Do what WoW did.

Impliment simple challenges based on roll that players must complete before queueing for that roll.

me_ming

Korsario wrote: »

I dont really care about your tiny epeen alts, I mean most common and normal level 10 newbeis who have no idea about the game, or builds or trying to dps with 1 handed and shield. It will be a frustrating experience for them and everyone else your lvl 9 emperors do not represent the normal low level player on an IC dungeon.

The issue is not how their builds suck. It really just reflects how YOUR build sucks. Because as you said, they're new to the game and possibly still learning, but you on the other hand have probably already played these dungeons on vet, YOU should have an idea of how to do this on normal, YOU should be able to assess what skills you should use to be able to complete it with someone who hasn't done it yet. The problem is your build isn't doing enough dmg or tanking or healing in a normal dungeon that you have to rely on others to complete it. My mind set whenever I do normal dungeons (and especially if there's a pre-level 50 in group) is that I need them in cases like FG II or Wayrest II is so they free me from those that bind you. Other than that I am self sufficient, I can tank, heal, dps, sustain my resources, etc.

And I would rather have them do these in normal mode at low levels than having them do vet pledges/dungeons at level 50 and not have a clue what the dungeon is about. Granted that vet dungeons are completely different, but at least they've been there, and know a portion of the mechanic than being completely oblivious of the place. I've run with many cp capped players who have no clue what to do in DLC dungeons. That is more annoying, than dealing with a level 10 in DLC dungeons.

gbaker42

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Do what WoW did.

Impliment simple challenges based on roll that players must complete before queueing for that roll.

Great idea ! The problem i think is that new players dont know how to play their roles not what their level is. I have seen plenty of players that have a hard time at level 50.

DMuehlhausen

Sheezabeast wrote: »

They paid for it, try telling them they don't have access to content they rightfully paid for.

Every other MMO essentially does it. You can't enter the latest highest level 5 man dungeons in WoW until you get to max level. It's not denying them access to anything. It's simply stating hey this is a dungeon, it's currently to hard for your level. There is nothing wrong with this.

People need to stop being such babies over everything. By the logic of well they paid for it you have to let them play it. You might as well then in the next Elder Scrolls Single player game just drop the character off in front of the last boss, with all side quests done. Give us the option of what top level gear we want to equip. Give us access to all spells and a super never ending healing/magicka potion that allows us to on shot kill the "final mob".

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Korsario wrote: »

It normally ends in headaches and tears.

Most of the pug DLCs dungeons usually end this way for me anyway. Why are we limiting this to low levels?

I'm my experience everyone it seems should be banned from puging the DLC dungeons.

maltinkilic

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

Sheezabeast wrote: »

They paid for it, try telling them they don't have access to content they rightfully paid for.

Every other MMO essentially does it. You can't enter the latest highest level 5 man dungeons in WoW until you get to max level. It's not denying them access to anything. It's simply stating hey this is a dungeon, it's currently to hard for your level. There is nothing wrong with this.

People need to stop being such babies over everything. By the logic of well they paid for it you have to let them play it. You might as well then in the next Elder Scrolls Single player game just drop the character off in front of the last boss, with all side quests done. Give us the option of what top level gear we want to equip. Give us access to all spells and a super never ending healing/magicka potion that allows us to on shot kill the "final mob".

The problem about tour argument is that you are missing that every low lvl character is scaled to cp160. If it werent the case yes but under the current circumstances it is ok for them to participate what they paid for.

cbaudersub17_ESO

The normal-mode DLC dungeons ARE very doable with level 10 character and up. Those dungeons are a matter of recognizing and minding mechanics.

If any issue exists, it’s that the difference between the DLC dungeons and old-world dungeons isn’t subtle. The game does very little to prepare newer players for this difference.

RE: Implimenting simple challenges based on role….
That does nothing to prepare a player in any role for the Planar Inhibitor, Ibomez the Flesh Sculptor, Xal-Nur the Slaver, or Velidreth. The strictest application of one’s selected role will likely end in failure.

raglau

Korsario wrote: »

I dont really care about your tiny epeen alts, I mean most common and normal level 10 newbeis who have no idea about the game, or builds or trying to dps with 1 handed and shield. It will be a frustrating experience for them and everyone else your lvl 9 emperors do not represent the normal low level player on an IC dungeon.

I rest my case; you are clearly the problem here.

ESO normal dungeons are unbelievably easy and mechanically simplistic. The DLC normal dungeons are harder mechanically, but still well within the wit of any reasonable gamer, if a more experienced player takes 3 mins to run through mechs.

The fact is that the segment of lowbies you've chosen to single out are actually doing what we'd expect at level 10, that is testing out different combinations of gear they happen to loot, testing out the limited number of skills they have and trying to learn mechanics with the training wheels still on. The fact you seem to desire them to perform to the level of alts and yet, in the next breath, decry the alts as epeen avatars, implies you really don't know what you want in your team mates.

From your post it's clear you are a vet ranked player, and you therefore should be able to solo all the normal dungeons, DLC included if your're circa160CP, or VR16 as I think of it. Ergo any help you get from a lowbie, even if it's a 2k DPS/HPS, is simply something less for you to do. If you're frustrated by people playing at their level, then solo the normal dungeons for the rewards and save yourself the heartache.

Cherryblossom

@Korsario

I agree with you

@Dr_Rektar

I also agree with you.

You are both right, most of the time it can turn into a nightmare when you have a lowbie with other Lowbie's, but there are many of us that can solo the dungeons on Normal, so it's doesn't really matter if you have a Veteran in the group.
Like Dr_Rektar I've also did many of the dungeons with Alts between 10-15, in which I performed incredibly well due to the way scaling works and I always gear up ready for them.

The only time it becomes a headache is when all are low and not very good players.

I do believe there should be three queues available for joining, one for each of the Pledge Givers, this I believe would solve most of these issues.

cpuScientist

It's normal it doesn't matter. And they are not able to go to vets so it doesn't matter.

NeillMcAttack

I would much rather have a lvl 11 with maxed CP than a CP 11 players in one of the more mechanic based dungeons. The real problem here is that a lvl 11 newbie is gonna struggle regardless of the dungeon. And the same goes for anyone with no experience therein and that aren't willing to communicate.

Some players can be dead weights and I always feel bad when they need to be kicked. I shouldn't have to feel bad though. The new player will feel it's content he can complete because he is able to access it.

We don't even get proper tips to these players in-game at all. It's never hinted that communication may be key to success. It's never mention that your sword and board, heavy armor, "DPS" may not actually suit the DPS role very well. It's not even explained what aggro or a taunt is. Then these players get carried once or twice and think they are Veteran! It's not fair to blame the players though. The system needs some mighty fine tuning.

alexkdd99

Are you guys that dense? Yes if a level 11 with a lot of cp enter a dlc dungeon they may do alright.

If a level 11 with no cp enter a dlc dungeon, you are in for a long run. Especially if you get 3 under level 20's with no cp it is going to be near impossible for the average player.

Sorry if you have never had a toon over level 50 then you shouldn't be doing the dlc dungeon. Cp makes a huge difference. Maybe the game shouldn't unlock dlc dungeon until you have a level 50 on your account, or at the very least remove the dlc dungeons from random group finder.

RinaldoGandolphi

I have never kicked a low level from my group, and I got all the no death challenges on one of my toons with me bring 561 and the other 3 below level 50.

The game is plenty setup to allow completions and no deaths with low level characters in your group.

If you don't atleast have Stormproof on one of your characters you have no room to talk and shouldn't be kicking people from your group.

How would of you like to be excluded from trials and dungeons because you can't beat VMA...of course no one would like that...show a little compassion and class...you were new once too and people can't learn if they are not given a chance.

Horowonnoe

alexkdd99 wrote: »

Are you guys that dense? Yes if a level 11 with a lot of cp enter a dlc dungeon they may do alright.

If a level 11 with no cp enter a dlc dungeon, you are in for a long run. Especially if you get 3 under level 20's with no cp it is going to be near impossible for the average player.

Sorry if you have never had a toon over level 50 then you shouldn't be doing the dlc dungeon. Cp makes a huge difference. Maybe the game shouldn't unlock dlc dungeon until you have a level 50 on your account, or at the very least remove the dlc dungeons from random group finder.

Not necessarily true. Once while Q'ing for a random I got normal Mazzatun and the rest of the group members were all under lvl20, had just started playing the game, had no cp and it was their very first dungeon ever. Luckily i was on my trials healer. I explained all the mechanics and we completed it with very few deaths and only one wipe on last boss while they were learning. Didn't take that long either because it was normal.

After we had completed the final boss, the group members were so happy about their first dungeon clear and one of them even offered me a payment (of 200 gold, how sweet : 3)

Feels good to help out new folks.

So guys, all of you, saying low levels shouldn't Q for dungeons... lol... learn to carry your pug.
How are people supposed to learn if they don't get a chance?
As others have stated, if you must rely on your group so heavily in a normal dungeon, something is wrong, because its just a dungeon. Especially normal dungeons, that can be soloed half naked.

If you don't want to help others, don't use the group finder. Play with your friends... oh wait...

DMuehlhausen

maltinkilic wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

Sheezabeast wrote: »

They paid for it, try telling them they don't have access to content they rightfully paid for.

Every other MMO essentially does it. You can't enter the latest highest level 5 man dungeons in WoW until you get to max level. It's not denying them access to anything. It's simply stating hey this is a dungeon, it's currently to hard for your level. There is nothing wrong with this.

People need to stop being such babies over everything. By the logic of well they paid for it you have to let them play it. You might as well then in the next Elder Scrolls Single player game just drop the character off in front of the last boss, with all side quests done. Give us the option of what top level gear we want to equip. Give us access to all spells and a super never ending healing/magicka potion that allows us to on shot kill the "final mob".

The problem about tour argument is that you are missing that every low lvl character is scaled to cp160. If it werent the case yes but under the current circumstances it is ok for them to participate what they paid for.

Yes they are scaled, but they don't suddenly have access to good CP 160 items, and they don't have all of the skill lines maxed out and the passives, or CP160 enchantments on the items this makes it so while their HP, Stam, and Magicka are all "high enough" you are still severely gimping the group.

JinMori

I did 50 k dps on stam dk lvl 10 but that's usually an exeption, you're not gonna find many cp capped and geared lvl 10 players.

JinMori

Korsario wrote: »

It normally ends in headaches and tears.

kyle.wilson wrote: »

Korsario wrote: »

It normally ends in headaches and tears.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/90417/i-am-quitting-cause-aoes-are-retardedly-overpowered-and-tis-the-only-thing-that-counts#latest
I guess that didn't last.

Thank you for showing us just how misinformed this guy is. You don't understand anything about this game if you think that only aoe skills are useful.

daijyashinb16_ESO

Yesterday: I played nWGT with a group.

We had a CP: 499 Tank
Myself at CP 378 Healer
A CP: 500+ DPS
And one who wasn't even in CP levels and was a DPS and admitted to having no CPs at all.

Can you tell me who above didn't know how to do WGT and was the one actually struggling and can you tell me who else explained the bosses aside from myself to the other person who didn't know how to WGT?

If you guessed that the one who was struggling, didn't know how to do WGT and what not was the 499 Tank, you would be correct. If you guessed that the DPS with no CP was the one who was helping explain the dungeons, you are also correct.

Likewise I've been levelling a couple of alts and have been using Random Dungeon Finder. My first alt (at level 10) got queued into CoS (and me forgetting to set my CP) on a StamSorc and my second (at level 10) got queued into White-Gold Tower as a MagDK. In both of those dungeons, with high CP players, I ended up being the one explaining the dungeon and clearing the dungeon easily with those group of players.

And finally: With a semi-decent group of level 10s who first started, was able to clear nWGT as well. I've done the same with nRoM as well and those players were happy and excited to do such a thing.

It's quite common I end up seeing a non-CP player in nWGT or nRoM. it's quite common I see level 10-11s in those dungeons also. However it's far rarer that I've had frustrating experiences. I had a group of 300+ CP experienced players' decide they won't ever kill a single zombie against Adjudicator in nWGT because of her mechanics who decided the best thing to do was blame their lower CP Healer.

Honestly. Even those without the CP can probably clear the normal versions of the DLC dungeons. It's just judgemental people with bad experiences that end up thinking you should exclude ALL of them. From my experience, the bad experiences with low level are vastly rare compared to the good experiences with low levels I seem to have.

souravami

IMO the dungeons should be gated by CP. 4 lvl 10 561 CP players can definitely clear nICP or nCOS, but only very few CP 0 lvl 10 players(I.e. a complete new) can complete those dlc dungeons on their own.
So give difficulty ratings to the dungeons and gate them by CP accordingly.
A player who just picked up the game last week, has no business in nICP or nCOS.

mvffins

It is usually not there fault, random dungeon system is messed up for those with ESO Plus as it will throw you into a DLC dungeon 9/10 times.

For a new casual player doing those random dungeons everyday is an extremely fast way to level up so that is why some see the incentive to queue for one.

cbaudersub17_ESO

From my experience, the story mode II normal versions of the old-world dungeons are less balanced than the DLC dungeons for under 50 leveling characters. Although, nothing insurmountable for a group intent on completing the content.

kylewwefan

the normals are much easier now, but low levels don't have enough skill points to be in support roles. While leveling toons, I found this out the hard way. You're better off just to be a poor DPS.

xXMichonneXx

This thread is just a repeat of a million others , people crying about low-levels in dungeons. I understand that DLCs are more difficult. That said, stop setting yourself up for disappointment. Run with your guild, people you trust. And if you are guildless and friendless then find people in area chat near the undaunted enclaves. At least you know what level you're getting.

DoccEff

Sheezabeast wrote: »

They paid for it, try telling them they don't have access to content they rightfully paid for.

Can you maybe tell me then, why Vaults of Madness unlocks at lvl 45? I mean, THEY PAID FOR IT!!! I can't beat vMoL, how can that be?? I paid for it too!!!

Now without sarcasm: Maybe dungeons should unlock in a reasonable order. The DLC-dungeons are, even on normal, the hardest ones in the game, so they should get unlocked at last. Or: Unlock every single dungeon at lvl 10. That lowers the possibility to get DLC-dungeons for everyone.

Amadis001

Yes, level matters. But ...

In my experience, the bigger part of running Mazzatun for the first time through the grouping tool wasn't that I was level 20 (roughly); it was that I didn't know the boss mechanics. In fact, nobody in my group did, and we had to bail at Xal-Nur because we couldn't figure out how to lift his immunity. Yesterday, I ran it for the third time; now I'm CP 180. But more importantly, I was the one explaining the boss mechanics for each boss to the rest of the group, and we were able to get through it with only a minimum of wipes. And because I knew what I was doing, I died less (or at least no more) than the CP400+ guys I was running with.

Bottom line -- Everyone goes into every dungeon for the first time. You need to carry that person, or at least coach them through the encounter, or the team is doomed. That's not always easy to do, especially if some people don't have a mic. But I don't see how to avoid this. You can't keep people out until they've been through once.

Prof_Bawbag

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

Sheezabeast wrote: »

They paid for it, try telling them they don't have access to content they rightfully paid for.

Every other MMO essentially does it. You can't enter the latest highest level 5 man dungeons in WoW until you get to max level. It's not denying them access to anything. It's simply stating hey this is a dungeon, it's currently to hard for your level. There is nothing wrong with this.

People need to stop being such babies over everything. By the logic of well they paid for it you have to let them play it. You might as well then in the next Elder Scrolls Single player game just drop the character off in front of the last boss, with all side quests done. Give us the option of what top level gear we want to equip. Give us access to all spells and a super never ending healing/magicka potion that allows us to on shot kill the "final mob".

That's called modding.