Debuff Events broadcasted to everyone.

Solinur

HI, I just noticed that Buff/Debuff Events of other units are broadcasted to me (and other players). For example I can see if another player uses Elemental Drain on a mob. This caused some addons go crazy (all those buff trackers) and caused some performance issues. Is this change intended and permanent or just a temporary bug? I need this info so I know if I have to look around how to deal with this.

Solinur

Sry for double post, but I have one addition: If it is intended to stay it would be really helpful if there was an indication who caused a particular effect in EVENT_EFFECT_CHANGED. It would be enough to know if the player caused it or not.

Edit: posted wrong event

ArtOfShred

I found a temporary solution for LUI, I wasn't going to push an update for a while still because I don't feel like its quite where I want it at, but for this I'll probably make an exception. I'll try to get something out in the next couple days.

I'll post some more tomorrow when I'm not too tired to think. And let you know if I come up with any solutions. I think this is great we can see these debuffs now, just need to find a way to filter them so the relevant info is displayed to our liking (whether that's hiding the debuffs or greying them out, or something).

In the meantime this was my temporary and unoptimized solution to fix the issue for LUI: http://www.esoui.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6793

ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Just had a chat with @ZOS_ChipHilseberg. This is working as intended. We want you to be able to see any effect cast around you unless you are in Cyrodiil and it's cast by an enemy-alliance player. If you don't want this option or have concerns about it, could you share with us the reasons why?

Tandor

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Just had a chat with @ZOS_ChipHilseberg. This is working as intended. We want you to be able to see any effect cast around you unless you are in Cyrodiil and it's cast by an enemy-alliance player. If you don't want this option or have concerns about it, could you share with us the reasons why?

Performance is one obvious reason, and if it relates to other unconnected people's actions as opposed to those of your own group then I'd question the relevance of it.

Like all such things, however, the solution to meeting any requests for it while overcoming any objections to it lies in making it optional with an on/off toggle in settings.

SwaminoNowlino

Some healers are going to start getting exposed on PC lol. Everyone is going to know when they let their debuffs fall.

timidobserver

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
One of the best changes of the update for me. This is going to make buff tracking add-ons more accurate. Being able to get accurate uptimes on things like Alkosh,magickasteal, and various other debuffs will be nice.

Greydir

The Main Problem I Have gotten with this is, that the Resulting Event is Overwriting my own Events. So for Examples, if you Have 2 MDKs in your Group the Dots will be continuosly overwrite each other and are not able to be Tracked anymore. I do not know if there is an information sent whose dot is set, but in all Bufftracking Addons this overwriting takes place.

LZH

.

Reorx_Holybeard

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Just had a chat with @ZOS_ChipHilseberg. This is working as intended. We want you to be able to see any effect cast around you unless you are in Cyrodiil and it's cast by an enemy-alliance player. If you don't want this option or have concerns about it, could you share with us the reasons why?

@ZOS_ChipHilseberg
The problem is that now we have no way to distinguish our ground effects from everyone else. If you look at the EVENT_EFFECT_CHANGED event the parameters are:

• integer eventCode
• number changeType
• number effectSlot
• string effectName
• string unitTag
• number beginTime
• number endTime
• number stackCount
• string iconName
• string buffType
• number effectType
• number abilityType
• number statusEffectType
• string unitName
• number unitId
• number abilityId

For ground effects (like Wall of Elements or Channeled Focus) unitTag is empty and unitName is "Offline" regardless of whether the spell is cast by ourselves or someone else. This makes it currently impossible to tell which effect is our ground effect or someone else. Previously we wouldn't even receive ground effect events from other people so it wasn't an issue...all ground effect events we received were either cast by us.

The unitName parameter for ground effects really should keep the name of the person that cast it which would allow us to tell our effects from someone else.

Lashiing

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Just had a chat with @ZOS_ChipHilseberg. This is working as intended. We want you to be able to see any effect cast around you unless you are in Cyrodiil and it's cast by an enemy-alliance player. If you don't want this option or have concerns about it, could you share with us the reasons why?

as just about everyone has stated above,
players use the buff tracker to see when they should reapply their skills
when all players buffs are tracked there is no way to differentiate between you skills and other's skills
this will impact complex rotations greatly

Cinbri

THANKS. Finally it worknig that way.

VagabondLife

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Just had a chat with @ZOS_ChipHilseberg. This is working as intended. We want you to be able to see any effect cast around you unless you are in Cyrodiil and it's cast by an enemy-alliance player. If you don't want this option or have concerns about it, could you share with us the reasons why?

Are you serious?

When group finder sticks me with 2 other sorcs, I already can't tell which of the 3 Blockades or Liquid Lightnings on the ground is mine. Now you gonna break all the addons and make the class basically unplayable?

Not to mention seriously buffing incoming damage to players while simultaneously removing my ability to see when my shields expire.

"Working as intended?" That's a bad joke right?

Enodoc

Why do you guys not want to know what another player is doing? Surely a debuff that another player has cast will have an impact on your combat results too, as it'll affect the mobs you're fighting.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom

For those of you experiencing a drop in game performance since this change, are you running any buff/debuff addons? If so, which ones?

VagabondLife

Enodoc wrote: »

Why do you guys not want to know what another player is doing? Surely a debuff that another player has cast will have an impact on your combat results too, as it'll affect the mobs you're fighting.

There is not enough room on my computer screen - or in my brain - to keep track of every single heal, shield, buff, debuff, snare, ground target, and proc cast by other players anywhere nearby. And that's what the buff trackers show now. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE.

I use Srendarr to keep track of my 2 ground target AoEs, my shield, and my Crystal Frags procs and Power Surge buff (which i have a hard time telling apart because the visuals are almost identical). That's only 5 alerts, and it's about as much as my eyes and brain can handle in the middle of combat.

Yesterday at a dolmen I had so many alerts up at once that they literally filled my entire screen with a wall of text and icons, all just constantly overwriting each other before I even had a chance to read them. I assume at least some of the Blockades and Lightnings were mine, but who even knows? It was completely game breaking for me.

If I wanted to gimp myself and not be able to track my buffs I'd just play on console instead.

Hoping this change gets reverted ASAP...

Olupajmibanan

This change is bad, and I mean really really bad.

Buff timers, FTC, Srendarr, all addons went useless. You are literally unable to keep track of the WoE or simillar spells cuz you don't know if it's yours or someone's else.
Boss debuffs are all over, even in freaking dungeon. How am I supposed to keep track of Siphon Spirit with 2 magdks in group and a NB tank? Debuffs, debuffs everywhere!!!

I am sorry to say, but revert this change please.

Gilvoth

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Just had a chat with @ZOS_ChipHilseberg. This is working as intended. We want you to be able to see any effect cast around you unless you are in Cyrodiil and it's cast by an enemy-alliance player. If you don't want this option or have concerns about it, could you share with us the reasons why?

because it will increase lagg, would be my only objection.
all that processing will increase lagg.

and "no" i dont use add-ons

Muramasa89

Enodoc wrote: »

Why do you guys not want to know what another player is doing? Surely a debuff that another player has cast will have an impact on your combat results too, as it'll affect the mobs you're fighting.

If it is a toss up between being able to distinguish my ground effects and knowing other people's ground effects, I'll take mine any day.

bitels

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

For those of you experiencing a drop in game performance since this change, are you running any buff/debuff addons? If so, which ones?

The problem isnt drop in performance for me. The problem is that my screen become cluster with buffs and debuffs that i have no interest in. Why bring this kind of change where noone ask about it, yet turn off option to see other players mundus stones to make it harder to pick up exploiters?
I really would like to know reasons behind this

Komma

Just turn off addons and keep track of your stuff. If you cant keep track of your rotations in your head then maybe you have other issues. Acting like its the end of the world is hilarious. Just work with them instead of crying and they will change things around. It isnt that big a deal.

Koolio

Wait so you took away my engine guardian repent for "performance" then made performance worse?
I want E.G. Repent back then lol

Olupajmibanan

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

For those of you experiencing a drop in game performance since this change, are you running any buff/debuff addons? If so, which ones?

I noticed significant fps decrease.
Using Srendarr to keep track of debuffs and Buff Timers to keep track off buffs and ground effects.

VagabondLife

Komma wrote: »

Just turn off addons and keep track of your stuff. If you cant keep track of your rotations in your head then maybe you have other issues. Acting like its the end of the world is hilarious. Just work with them instead of crying and they will change things around. It isnt that big a deal.

You are wrong.

Minalan

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

This change is bad, and I mean really really bad.

Buff timers, FTC, Srendarr, all addons went useless. You are literally unable to keep track of the WoE or simillar spells cuz you don't know if it's yours or someone's else.
Boss debuffs are all over, even in freaking dungeon. How am I supposed to keep track of Siphon Spirit with 2 magdks in group and a NB tank? Debuffs, debuffs everywhere!!!

I am sorry to say, but revert this change please.

I keep getting crystal fragment proc messages constantly, I never know when it's mine. Every add on that tracks it is borked (sorc helper and FTC).

I use the add-on because I listen to music and someone in TS is always talking or laughing. You can't see the 'glowy hands' with surge up and a BSW proc. So I look for the blue scroll text. Now it's going crazy, it's unusable.

Change this back, it's broken and it's terrible. Every add-on has quit working. @ZOS_ChipHilseberg

bitels

Komma wrote: »

Just turn off addons and keep track of your stuff. If you cant keep track of your rotations in your head then maybe you have other issues. Acting like its the end of the world is hilarious. Just work with them instead of crying and they will change things around. It isnt that big a deal.

It isnt problem about tracking skills in rotation. But if you have to deal with mechnics that break your rotation it is good to be able to quickly check how much time you have on your dots, aoes etc. Especially in trials when there is no option to see if they still going on with having skills animations from 11 other ppl on boss
As I said earlier im just really interested why they go with two difrent directions about tracking other players buffs

@ZOS_ChipHilseberg
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Solinur

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Just had a chat with @ZOS_ChipHilseberg. This is working as intended. We want you to be able to see any effect cast around you unless you are in Cyrodiil and it's cast by an enemy-alliance player. If you don't want this option or have concerns about it, could you share with us the reasons why?

Most players want to know what their impact and performance towards the total group is, but as it is we have no efficient way to calculate that. Having an info on the source of an effect would allow us to filter out the events caused by the player from all the others. This would also help for people who have performance issues, since we can then easily restore the behaviour from before the patch.

For the total picture I like having this info and have ideas to play with it. I just would like the additional info on the source.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

For those of you experiencing a drop in game performance since this change, are you running any buff/debuff addons? If so, which ones?

The ones in question yesterday were FTC, Srendarr and Combat Metrics.
I made a hotfix for Combat Metrics for now. However since there are also general issues with the game performance (I heard there is a bug with the video settings) It's not totally clear if those issues are just caused by addons alone.

bitels wrote: »

The problem isnt drop in performance for me. The problem is that my screen become cluster with buffs and debuffs that i have no interest in. Why bring this kind of change where noone ask about it, yet turn off option to see other players mundus stones to make it harder to pick up exploiters?
I really would like to know reasons behind this

You can track mundus stones fine, just not inside cyrodil. Also these effects discussed here are not shown in cyrodil as well.


So I like this change generally. PLEASE DON'T REVERT IT, JUST IMPROVE IT A LITTLE BIT

Also I'm sorry that I didn't check this out last week on PTS where this was already enabled.

Olupajmibanan

Solinur wrote: »

So I like this change generally. PLEASE DON'T REVERT IT, JUST IMPROVE IT A LITTLE BIT

Go to a dolmen in Alik'r with Srendarr or FTC on, you'll quickly change your mid.

Solinur

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Solinur wrote: »

So I like this change generally. PLEASE DON'T REVERT IT, JUST IMPROVE IT A LITTLE BIT

Go to a dolmen in Alik'r with Srendarr or FTC on, you'll quickly change your mid.

The addons need to be adjusted, thats obivous. But just because old addons don't work anymore API changes are not bad. Thats how it always went.

Zakor

Omg, guys! It's not ZOS fault the addons don't work anymore! They surely need adjustement as with any other API change that happened or will ever happen. The change was in fact a very good one since you can finally monitor which debuffs a target has with addons instead of visuals! You can see if tank runs armor debuffs and if healer runs magickasteal. You actually can SEE what is wrong if damage is too low or sustain isn't working as it should. That's great! Now be so kind and give addon authors the chance to communicate with ZOS and adapt to this change! ZOS has already shown interest in this problem and it seems like they are willing to help us getting this fixed.

TL,DR:
Calm down and let the addon authors and ZOS discuss about needed changes without your whining.

VagabondLife

Zakor wrote: »

TL,DR:
Calm down and let the addon authors and ZOS discuss about needed changes without your whining.

Our so-called "whining" is a direct response to questions asked by ZOS staff.

Since you seem to have missed it:

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Just had a chat with @ZOS_ChipHilseberg. This is working as intended. We want you to be able to see any effect cast around you unless you are in Cyrodiil and it's cast by an enemy-alliance player. If you don't want this option or have concerns about it, could you share with us the reasons why?

TL,DR:
This IS the discussion about needed changes. But thanks for butting in and being all condescending anyway, it was super useful.