Let's clear the air on why people are angry

BlueViolet

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

Yes, I'm probably a lot less mature than the other adults arguing about what constitutes DLC on a forum at 3am on a weekday.

I'm actually curious to know why you feel you must go flailing and screaming into every thread to post your utter drivel directed at everyone who wants to have their say on how they feel about this issue.

What difference does it make to you what people think about it ? If you're planning on buying the supposed expansion, and you don't give a toss about Zeni's transparency, or subscriber issues then it's clearly not going to affect your enjoyment, so why are you flouncing about in every thread acting in such a desperate fashion?

SanTii.92

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

We're mad we have to pay for this. That is valid all its own.

But thats not an argument, only an arbitrary sentiment, which cant be expected from Zenimax to act upon.

At the end there is no reason why zenimax shouldnt, by principle, charge for content however they want, let alone to be demanded to not to.

You can only ask yourself if the content devoloped is worth its price to you, and for me is a no brain.

SunfireKnight86

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

The most loyal fans of the game feel betrayed because they felt they were paying for something, at a rate of $180 a year, that they will not receive now.

That is literally what you said in your first post, but okay. You are mad you aren't getting something you feel you'll be paying for, despite the fact that I and many others now have pointed out it is not a DLC, but an expansion pack, and you keep calling that a straw man. (Because you don't know what it means)

And speaking of straw man examples, the cost is 15 a month, not 180 a year. There are no yearly subs.

frethopper

For the benefit (especially) of everyone who who berated me, for complaining about the cost of a new graphics card after the Thieves DLC was released:

The price of Morrowind is just fine thanks.

See, I'm not bitter or anything

MLGProPlayer

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

The most loyal fans of the game feel betrayed because they felt they were paying for something, at a rate of $180 a year, that they will not receive now.

That is literally what you said in your first post, but okay. You are mad you aren't getting something you feel you'll be paying for, despite the fact that I and many others now have pointed out it is not a DLC, but an expansion pack, and you keep calling that a straw man. (Because you don't know what it means)

And speaking of straw man examples, the cost is 15 a month, not 180 a year. There are no yearly subs.

Where in that comment did I say anything about the expansion being expensive or wanting it to be free?

In fact, I didn't even say that is my personal position.

I'm simply stating why some people might feel betrayed and misled based on how ZOS has previously operated its revenue model.

That's the argument. It's about ethics, not about something being too expensive.

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

And speaking of straw man examples, the cost is 15 a month, not 180 a year. There are no yearly subs.

Clearly you can't grasp this concept even after pasting the definition in here yourself.

Doctordarkspawn

World of warcraft has been doing it for years.

For what it's worth, this is why I buy DLC. The value is better for money spent, it's also why I kinda time my sub-for-a-month periods to where I can nab something I want for the 1500 crowns you get for a month sub. I then immediately axe the sub, get the craftbag for a month and the stuff I want in the bargan.

People can be outraged all they like, but quite frankly This is nothing new, and 20 bucks -under- what would normally be charged if this was a wow Xpac, for around what the value actuallly is.

maboleth

BlueViolet wrote: »

NovaShadow wrote: »

I bolded your statement because it needs to be said that the wording was changed to reflect what you now see. It did not say that before.

I'm personally pissed because we were told one thing: ALL future content would be accessible with a current sub.

[pic snip]

Now it's been changed to reflect what is now on the ESO + sales page.

That is where my personal anger is coming from, that lie/deception, it feels like a betrayal. I was led to believe one thing, now all of a sudden it's something else.

I don't care about the money, it's actually $60 for me. It's about the fact that I feel lied to and betrayed.

I didn't know they had changed that.
Wow... that's pretty bad in my opinion.

I am all for supporting the game, I sub and buy crowns as well so the price isn't an issue. It IS the deception... and from here forward, it makes me feel kind of unhappy and in two minds to be supporting such deceptions.

That picture never said anything about crafting bags and customizing costume colors, because none was available at that time. Using the same logic they gave you something they didn't promise earlier for the same price. And you were all good and didnt mind.
Now, you cry like babies because they changed the wording you also accepted by the terms of use!

So who's more unfair now? All I can see here is people bitching about something that was perfectly obvious.

BlueViolet

maboleth wrote: »

BlueViolet wrote: »

NovaShadow wrote: »

I bolded your statement because it needs to be said that the wording was changed to reflect what you now see. It did not say that before.

I'm personally pissed because we were told one thing: ALL future content would be accessible with a current sub.

[pic snip]

Now it's been changed to reflect what is now on the ESO + sales page.

That is where my personal anger is coming from, that lie/deception, it feels like a betrayal. I was led to believe one thing, now all of a sudden it's something else.

I don't care about the money, it's actually $60 for me. It's about the fact that I feel lied to and betrayed.

I didn't know they had changed that.
Wow... that's pretty bad in my opinion.

I am all for supporting the game, I sub and buy crowns as well so the price isn't an issue. It IS the deception... and from here forward, it makes me feel kind of unhappy and in two minds to be supporting such deceptions.

That picture never said anything about crafting bags and customizing costume colors, because none was available at that time. Using the same logic they gave you something they didn't promise earlier for the same price. And you were all good and didnt mind.
Now, you cry like babies because they changed the wording you also accepted by the terms of use!

So who's more unfair now? All I can see here is people bitching about something that was perfectly obvious.

Crafting bags and such were added to subscription perks to make subbing all the more attractive, and bring in more subscribers.
How attractive is it to think of subbing when backtracking on previous statements occurs?

Would it make people want to pay for a sub when all of sudden Zeni might backtrack and decides you can keep your craft bag, but it now has a limit of 100 slots. Or, sure, you can keep your costume dye ability, but you can only change colours once a week. All without telling you until they decide to do it.

SanTii.92

ToxicPAWS wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

People who subbed for access to all future content, might not have subbed if they knew expansions would not be included in that rate.

This is where a lot of you get it completly wrong, and i'm sorry, but to me is beyond idiotic.

You've subbed for the content Zenimax delivered and you were playing all this time, to think that it would entiltle you to any future devolopment, regardless of scope or whatever makes no sense at all.

They are telling you in advance how Morrowind is gonna be monetized, you can do now whatever the hell you want with your sub.

@SanTii.92 - I think this where you get it wrong if you are saying that we were thinking that sub will entitle us to future content. If you go back a bit, you'll see that it did. We did got 4 future content, Orsinium/DOB/TS/SOTH. But what you fail to see and understand in your tiny brain is that Calling another future content a Expansion does not make it any different than the 4 content released before.
So Take you idiotic argument and shove it .................

Lol, what is or is not an expasion is only from Zenimax to determine.

And besides that, you are just plain wrong, your eso+ membership granted you access to all those dlcs you have just mentioned, thats what you have been paying for. Access to dlcs, among other things.

But How would you rightfully think a sub paid now would grant you acces to content launched on 5 months, thats just absurd.

MLGProPlayer

BlueViolet wrote: »

maboleth wrote: »

BlueViolet wrote: »

NovaShadow wrote: »

I bolded your statement because it needs to be said that the wording was changed to reflect what you now see. It did not say that before.

I'm personally pissed because we were told one thing: ALL future content would be accessible with a current sub.

[pic snip]

Now it's been changed to reflect what is now on the ESO + sales page.

That is where my personal anger is coming from, that lie/deception, it feels like a betrayal. I was led to believe one thing, now all of a sudden it's something else.

I don't care about the money, it's actually $60 for me. It's about the fact that I feel lied to and betrayed.

I didn't know they had changed that.
Wow... that's pretty bad in my opinion.

I am all for supporting the game, I sub and buy crowns as well so the price isn't an issue. It IS the deception... and from here forward, it makes me feel kind of unhappy and in two minds to be supporting such deceptions.

That picture never said anything about crafting bags and customizing costume colors, because none was available at that time. Using the same logic they gave you something they didn't promise earlier for the same price. And you were all good and didnt mind.
Now, you cry like babies because they changed the wording you also accepted by the terms of use!

So who's more unfair now? All I can see here is people bitching about something that was perfectly obvious.

Crafting bags and such were added to subscription perks to make subbing all the more attractive, and bring in more subscribers.
How attractive is it to think of subbing when backtracking on previous statements occurs?

Would it make people want to pay for a sub when all of sudden Zeni might backtrack and decides you can keep your craft bag, but it now has a limit of 100 slots. Or, sure, you can keep your costume dye ability, but you can only change colours once a week. All without telling you until they decide to do it.

To be fair, they've given us 5 months of warning.

That's not to say I think this was handled properly, but it gives subscribers some time to reconsider their support of the game.

I agree with the rest of your comment. Taking things away, that customers have come to expect, is never a good look for companies.

SunfireKnight86

Nobody backtracked. They design free to subbers/free DLC every quarter. Thieves Guild, DB, Hist, Imperial City, Orisium, One Tamriel, and Housing so far. We also will get Mirkmire, Clockwork City, Mapehla's Realm, and others. The DLC will continue as planned as far as we know.

Now they're giving us this other thing too, and you feel it should be just given to you, because.... I don't even know why. Just *** because, I guess. You got what you paid for with this sub. Let it go.

EDIT: And the crime update too. Forgot about that one.
EDIT II: And the new seasonal events.

Gladium

DLC = Downloadable Content. Can you download it? Yes. It's DLC. Stuff like "horse armor" is considered DLC, but not an EP.

Expansion = DLC containing content that expands on the pre-existing content. Thought by many to be "large scale DLC". You could argue that horse armor expands on the pre-existing mounts, though. Shrug.

I agree that this seems like a business model change, and that Morrowind better have a lot more content than Wrothgar to make this worthwhile. However Gina implied in another thread that there will still be DLC released, possibly even parallel to the release of Morrowind.

A few games like The Secret World have revamped their business model in regards to the subscription. Said game used to be P2P where all new content was free. They then changed to B2P, and said there would be new monthly content, free for suscribers only, the rest would need to pay. Then turns out, they could not deliver monthly content, and people's subscription money was just a little donation to the developers. They then revamped the subscription again. Transparency in regards to money is important, and it needs to come early. If there will be a "dry season" for ESO+ subscribers, a little boost to the benefits you get may be appropriate.

I am giving them the benefit of the doubt on this one, though. Morrowind in large part appears to be part of a retention plan, where they want to draw in players who have quit as well as completely new blood. We will likely see marketing on the same scale as pre-launch, and that's not cheap.

Rohamad_Ali

I'm eating midnight Tacos . It's the most important meal of the night .

Nefaras

The World of Warcraft arguement is so weak.

WoW Addons Legion Expansion :
- new max lvl 110
- new class demon hunter
- new feature artifact weapon
- 5 new areas ! (new continent)
- order hall (personal story for all classes)
- 9 new dungeon !

And than blizz release content fast as hell, 1 month after release harder dungeon modes (mythic + ) first raid tier 2 month after release , 2nd raid tier was last month. + Balance fast.

For 45 Bucks....for all additional content after this 45 bucks no more paying needed.

What does ZOS do?

Morrowind Expansion:
-New Continent (30hrs story)
-PvP Battlegrounds (4vs4vs4)
-New class (Warden)
-New Trial

They charge 40 Bucks ...and all that will happen after will cost additional because its DLC ..... Battlegrounds should be in the base game and nothing else.

MLGProPlayer

Gladium wrote: »

DLC = Downloadable Content. Can you download it? Yes. It's DLC. Stuff like "horse armor" is considered DLC, but not an EP.

Expansion = DLC containing content that expands on the pre-existing content. Thought by many to be "large scale DLC".

I agree that this seems like a business model change, and that Morrowind better have a lot more content than Wrothgar to make this worthwhile. However Gina implied in another thread that there will still be DLC released, possibly even parallel to the release of Morrowind.

A few games like The Secret World have revamped their business model in regards to the subscription. Said game used to be P2P where all new content was free. They then changed to B2P, and said there would be new monthly content, free for suscribers only, the rest would need to pay. Then turns out, they could not deliver monthly content, and people's subscription money was just a little donation to the developers. They then revamped the subscription again. Transparency in regards to money is important, and it needs to come early. If there will be a "dry season" for ESO+ subscribers, a little boost to the benefits you get may be appropriate.

I am giving them the benefit of the doubt on this one, though. Morrowind in large part appears to be part of a retention plan, where they want to draw in players who have quit as well as completely new blood. We will likely see marketing on the same scale as pre-launch, and that's not cheap.

If this change to the revenue model was revealed after Dark Brotherhood, people would be less ticked off.

They could have come out and said: "There will be no new traditional DLC content in the next 2-3 quarters. We need to dedicate our resources to developing a proper expansion pack Q2 2017. Access to this content will not be included as part of ESO+."

Whether rightly or wrongly, people have come to expect explorable DLC content every quarter (ZOS even promised as much). Now, the promise was for "content" every quarter, but the expectation from players was that the content would be in the same mold as the previous 4 quarters (which all delivered explorable DLC zones).

Subs would then have been able to reconsider their support for the game without it seeming like ZOS is trying to cheat them.

letsdothedungeonslow

ChuckyPayne wrote: »

I am very glad that the game is evolving. The things they're doing are very good, is intended to make the game better and better be.

Growing, yes. Evolving, maybe. Improving? I don't think so. What annoys me most of all about the things ZOS have done since I started playing is that they keep adding stuff, most of which is not very appealing (to me, at least), but the age-old problems (lag, cheaters, bugs, crashes, etc.) are not fixed.

I dearly want the Craft bag and I'd spend the ESO+ crowns purely on Imperial upgrade and XP scrolls, but I'm not going to sub until I see a change in overall approach, from money-grabbing exploitative (Crown Crates, anyone?) and refusing to fix problems, to something better.

Xionar

So much salt in here from all sides.

Here's the thing, While yes this is still technically a DLC, it is large enough to be split into 2 or 3.

People lately have been asking for more content, and faster. For that to happen we had to make a compromise with ZoS on the matter. We give them new money, they give us more content, content they could have easily spread out for the rest of the year. On top of that, now they don't have to worry about making these smaller items full fledged DLC's on their own, they can lump sum them into a big expansion and get to work on other things quicker (spellcrafting anyone?).

So while this may not be ideal for everyone, I wouldn't consider it deceitful for this compromise, even though not everyone had a vote in the matter. I for one, will gladly sacrifice new money for more than the usual amount of content.

esotoon

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

I'm not "blind" to anything, I just know how the model works because I'm a grown ass man who's been paying for his own games long enough not to think DLC and Expansion Pack are the same thing.

As a grown ass man, to me it looks less like a usual MMO expansion pack, and more like 3 missing DLCs (Q4 2016 and Q1/Q2 2017), rolled into one package, and given the nostalgic title of Morrowind, in order to get people to hand over their money without question.

If you really do consider it an Expansion pack, I am curious to know how you feel it compares in value (content wise) to Expansion packs seen in other MMOs?

runagate

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

Nefaras wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

There is also a strong message that ZOS is taking people with subs for granted. ZOS quietly took their sub money in 2016 Q4 but didn't drop any new DLC in the crown store. The same happened in 2017 Q1. Then, surprise! Despite waiting and paying for 6 months, you won't be getting anything for another 3, but we will take more of your money for what we were working on while we received your sub.

Who knows. Maybe they will also drop an amazing DLC alongside Morrowind in Q2. That would at least give some value to those who sub. Of course, the backlash among would be pretty bad for day-1 DLC.

This.

And to be fair , a competetiv pvp game mode (like battlegrounds or arena) should be in the base game ...not limited behind a paywall.

so and what disturbs me the most is that they said in the stream that they will continue tp develope the base game. does that mean that i am as a eso+ member will only get bae game dlcs , because i am a sub to the base game?

they shoul give subs a 25% discount and we would all be a little more happy..

Except the total revamp of the whole game, the crowns they got, the extra XP, the continued access to the DLC that had already been released, and housing.

They never said they'd add a new zone every four months, they said they'd add content, which they have.

Jesus, you people would say the sky was green if you thought it would get you free content.

Actually, they said they intended to do semi-monthly content updates. How soon people forget.

"Charging a flat monthly (or subscription) fee means that we will offer players the game we set out to make, and the one that fans want to play. Going with any other model meant that we would have to make sacrifices and changes we weren't willing to make," ESO director Matt Firor told Gamestar. "The Elder Scrolls Online offers unlimited play for the first 30 days with the purchase of the game. The choice is yours to play as much as you want; hundreds of hours of content, PvP, etc - is all there for you to experience with the base purchase of the game.

"If you want to continue playing for hundreds of hours more after that first month you'll pay a flat fee for continued, unlimited access to the game."

The base subscription will be $14.99/€12.99/£8.99 per month. There will also be discounts for players who purchase several months at a time. Game time cards will be offered through retailers. The game itself is priced at $59.99 by Amazon and GameStop.

"We are already working on content that will roll out to players after ESO's launch. New quest lines, skills, zones, dungeons -are already in the pipeline. These things, in addition to our end-game content, PvP, and extraordinary customer service, are all part of making sure we're delivering on that premium service - and that the player feels like they are getting their money's worth. We won't know the exact schedule until after ESO launches, but our target right now is to have new content available every four to six weeks."

Do you get it now? Every single time they've said something about content (scam boxes, B2P, etc.) it's been a lie. Every time.

BlueViolet

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

To be fair, they've given us 5 months of warning.

That's not to say I think this was handled properly, but it gives subscribers some time to reconsider their support of the game.

I agree with the rest of your comment. Taking things away, that customers have come to expect, is never a good look for companies.

My response wasn't so much as to not having any warning, it was in return to the remark that no one complained when anything was "added" only taken away.

My concerns are still about transparency, not about prices or whether one should get the content for free if subbing. I am willing to support and pay outside of my subscription for such things, but I simply feel that a bit of courtesy toward customers wouldn't go astray rather than being sneaky about it. THAT is what makes me feel hesitant about continuing support.

Nonetheless, some people are going to see it differently than I do.

SunfireKnight86

Nefaras wrote: »

The World of Warcraft arguement is so weak.

WoW Addons Legion Expansion :
- new max lvl 110
- new class demon hunter
- new feature artifact weapon
- 5 new areas ! (new continent)
- order hall (personal story for all classes)
- 9 new dungeon !

And than blizz release content fast as hell, 1 month after release harder dungeon modes (mythic + ) first raid tier 2 month after release , 2nd raid tier was last month. + Balance fast.

For 45 Bucks....for all additional content after this 45 bucks no more paying needed.

What does ZOS do?

Morrowind Expansion:
-New Continent (30hrs story)
-PvP Battlegrounds (4vs4vs4)
-New class (Warden)
-New Trial
-New Factions
-New Story
-New CP Cap
-New Dungeons
-Also adding new items since we're including that, apparently
-Probably more stuff we aren't aware of because we can't see the future

They charge 40 Bucks ...and all that will happen after will cost additional because its DLC ..... Battlegrounds should be in the base game and nothing else.

FTFY

EDIT: LOL @ Blizz adding new content within a month. The release the same dungeons scaled up and a raid they sat on while people geared up. Don't church it up. No patch content they drop is every half as good as the stuff ESO drops every quarter.

Rohamad_Ali

Xionar wrote: »

So much salt in here from all sides.

Here's the thing, While yes this is still technically a DLC, it is large enough to be split into 2 or 3.

People lately have been asking for more content, and faster. For that to happen we had to make a compromise with ZoS on the matter. We give them new money, they give us more content, content they could have easily spread out for the rest of the year. On top of that, now they don't have to worry about making these smaller items full fledged DLC's on their own, they can lump sum them into a big expansion and get to work on other things quicker (spellcrafting anyone?).

So while this may not be ideal for everyone, I wouldn't consider it deceitful for this compromise, even though not everyone had a vote in the matter. I for one, will gladly sacrifice new money for more than the usual amount of content.

Cool . Hope you enjoy it . No one here is upset at people that are happy . This isn't even half as bad as crown crates thread . Just some of Us don't like the way ZoS changed subscription . It's not Us against the players , it's feedback to ZoS . Customers should give feedback to ZoS , they ask for it all the time .

SunfireKnight86

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Gladium wrote: »

DLC = Downloadable Content. Can you download it? Yes. It's DLC. Stuff like "horse armor" is considered DLC, but not an EP.

Expansion = DLC containing content that expands on the pre-existing content. Thought by many to be "large scale DLC".

I agree that this seems like a business model change, and that Morrowind better have a lot more content than Wrothgar to make this worthwhile. However Gina implied in another thread that there will still be DLC released, possibly even parallel to the release of Morrowind.

A few games like The Secret World have revamped their business model in regards to the subscription. Said game used to be P2P where all new content was free. They then changed to B2P, and said there would be new monthly content, free for suscribers only, the rest would need to pay. Then turns out, they could not deliver monthly content, and people's subscription money was just a little donation to the developers. They then revamped the subscription again. Transparency in regards to money is important, and it needs to come early. If there will be a "dry season" for ESO+ subscribers, a little boost to the benefits you get may be appropriate.

I am giving them the benefit of the doubt on this one, though. Morrowind in large part appears to be part of a retention plan, where they want to draw in players who have quit as well as completely new blood. We will likely see marketing on the same scale as pre-launch, and that's not cheap.

If this change to the revenue model was revealed after Dark Brotherhood, people would be less ticked off.

They could have come out and said: "There will be no new traditional DLC content in the next 2-3 quarters. We need to dedicate our resources to developing a proper expansion pack Q2 2017. Access to this content will not be included as part of ESO+."

Whether rightly or wrongly, people have come to expect explorable DLC content every quarter (ZOS even promised as much). Now, the promise was for "content" every quarter, but the expectation from players was that the content would be in the same mold as the previous 4 quarters (which all delivered explorable DLC zones).

Subs would then have been able to reconsider their support for the game without it seeming like ZOS is trying to cheat them.

But there has been DLC, and they never said "explorable". (Whatever the hell that means) Just because free players get it too doesn't mean it isn't DLC.

If you want to argue that a sub isn't worth it, go ahead. There's a strong case for that. Don't just make *** up to try and support and indefensible case about what does and doesn't count as "DLC". One Tamriel was one of the biggest changes since launch.

MLGProPlayer

BlueViolet wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

To be fair, they've given us 5 months of warning.

That's not to say I think this was handled properly, but it gives subscribers some time to reconsider their support of the game.

I agree with the rest of your comment. Taking things away, that customers have come to expect, is never a good look for companies.

My response wasn't so much as to not having any warning, it was in return to the remark that no one complained when anything was "added" only taken away.

My concerns are still about transparency, not about prices or whether one should get the content for free if subbing. I am willing to support and pay outside of my subscription for such things, but I simply feel that a bit of courtesy toward customers wouldn't go astray rather than being sneaky about it. THAT is what makes me feel hesitant about continuing support.

Nonetheless, some people are going to see it differently than I do.

I agree. Changing the wording on an advertisement is the lowest form of deception. I get that you did nothing wrong or illegal. But at least be transparent about what changes you are making.

MLGProPlayer

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Gladium wrote: »

DLC = Downloadable Content. Can you download it? Yes. It's DLC. Stuff like "horse armor" is considered DLC, but not an EP.

Expansion = DLC containing content that expands on the pre-existing content. Thought by many to be "large scale DLC".

I agree that this seems like a business model change, and that Morrowind better have a lot more content than Wrothgar to make this worthwhile. However Gina implied in another thread that there will still be DLC released, possibly even parallel to the release of Morrowind.

A few games like The Secret World have revamped their business model in regards to the subscription. Said game used to be P2P where all new content was free. They then changed to B2P, and said there would be new monthly content, free for suscribers only, the rest would need to pay. Then turns out, they could not deliver monthly content, and people's subscription money was just a little donation to the developers. They then revamped the subscription again. Transparency in regards to money is important, and it needs to come early. If there will be a "dry season" for ESO+ subscribers, a little boost to the benefits you get may be appropriate.

I am giving them the benefit of the doubt on this one, though. Morrowind in large part appears to be part of a retention plan, where they want to draw in players who have quit as well as completely new blood. We will likely see marketing on the same scale as pre-launch, and that's not cheap.

If this change to the revenue model was revealed after Dark Brotherhood, people would be less ticked off.

They could have come out and said: "There will be no new traditional DLC content in the next 2-3 quarters. We need to dedicate our resources to developing a proper expansion pack Q2 2017. Access to this content will not be included as part of ESO+."

Whether rightly or wrongly, people have come to expect explorable DLC content every quarter (ZOS even promised as much). Now, the promise was for "content" every quarter, but the expectation from players was that the content would be in the same mold as the previous 4 quarters (which all delivered explorable DLC zones).

Subs would then have been able to reconsider their support for the game without it seeming like ZOS is trying to cheat them.

But there has been DLC, and they never said "explorable". (Whatever the hell that means) Just because free players get it too doesn't mean it isn't DLC.

If you want to argue that a sub isn't worth it, go ahead. There's a strong case for that. Don't just make *** up to try and support and indefensible case about what does and doesn't count as "DLC". One Tamriel was one of the biggest changes since launch.

Imperial City, Orsinium, Thieve's Guild, and Dark Brotherhood all introduced new zones that you can explore. These are "explorable" DLCs.

Then we got One Tamriel (no new content at all, just a rebalancing of existing content).

After that we got player housing.

There is a huge difference between the first four and the last two.

If you get 4 straight quarters of explorable DLC content, and the developer says they plan to release new content every quarter, you expect that pattern to continue. The word "content" is nebulous, but there was a pattern created up to that point which a reasonable person could use to determine the content of future updates.

Nefaras

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

Nefaras wrote: »

The World of Warcraft arguement is so weak.

WoW Addons Legion Expansion :
- new max lvl 110
- new class demon hunter
- new feature artifact weapon
- 5 new areas ! (new continent)
- order hall (personal story for all classes)
- 9 new dungeon !

And than blizz release content fast as hell, 1 month after release harder dungeon modes (mythic + ) first raid tier 2 month after release , 2nd raid tier was last month. + Balance fast.

For 45 Bucks....for all additional content after this 45 bucks no more paying needed.

What does ZOS do?

Morrowind Expansion:
-New Continent (30hrs story)
-PvP Battlegrounds (4vs4vs4)
-New class (Warden)
-New Trial
-New CP Cap
-New Dungeons
-New Raids
-Also adding new items since we're including that, apparently
-Probably more stuff we aren't aware of because we can't see the future

They charge 40 Bucks ...and all that will happen after will cost additional because its DLC ..... Battlegrounds should be in the base game and nothing else.

FTFY

Hmm mate you clearly are a fan boy. New cp cap is not the same as new level cap , , the cp is one reason this game is balance wise broken as hell, the new trial is listed = new raid , new dungeon at the moment no word about that . And what did they gave us in their big balance patch? Nothing.

So Legion is released since end of august 2016 . Since than the player base got 3 FULL raids, balance changes every month. A new harder mode for all 9 new Dungeons. A bigger Dungeon (2 Parts).

So now look at eso, what did eso players get in the last 6 months ? Nothing, really nothing ...now housing ouuuh so much content.

willlienellson

It's amusing to me how many people don't understand basic commerce.

We've got people bragging about being multi-millionaires that have less understanding about how the world works than my 9 year old son.

MLGProPlayer

willlienellson wrote: »

It's amusing to me how many people don't understand basic commerce.

We've got people bragging about being multi-millionaires that have less understanding about how the world works than my 9 year old son.

Ethics is a part of commerce.

Hiero_Glyph

The main difference between an expansion and DLC is how cohesive they are. In WoW, you go to your class hall to unlock social aspects and gain access to your artifact weapon quests. This is only one part of Legion but it is fully integrated. Does anyone really think that the Warden class plays an important part of the storyline for Morrowind or that the Battlegrounds will be explained or detailed as being related to the storyline?

We all realize that they are simply bundling 3-4 DLCs together and calling it an expansion but there is no reason why Battlegrounds could not be sold as a separate DLC or why the Warden and a new weapon skill line could not be sold on its own either. Heck, if ZOS wanted they could even separate Morrowind into two "chapters" and sell each for the same price as Orsinium. The only problem is that if they did these things then it would all qualify under ESO+ and that seems to be the only thing they are trying to avoid.

SanTii.92

Nefaras wrote: »

The World of Warcraft arguement is so weak.

WoW Addons Legion Expansion :
- new max lvl 110
- new class demon hunter
- new feature artifact weapon
- 5 new areas ! (new continent)
- order hall (personal story for all classes)
- 9 new dungeon !

And than blizz release content fast as hell, 1 month after release harder dungeon modes (mythic + ) first raid tier 2 month after release , 2nd raid tier was last month. + Balance fast.

For 45 Bucks....for all additional content after this 45 bucks no more paying needed.

What does ZOS do?

Morrowind Expansion:
-New Continent (30hrs story)
-PvP Battlegrounds (4vs4vs4)
-New class (Warden)
-New Trial

They charge 40 Bucks ...and all that will happen after will cost additional because its DLC ..... Battlegrounds should be in the base game and nothing else.

Uhm, correct me if im wrong but arent wow expasion once a year with little to nothing in between them?

If so the comparison wouldnt hold at all without mentioning ofc the difference of bussines models..