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Imagine if the 2H had Destro passives

Strider_Roshin
Strider_Roshin
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Can you imagine if the greatsword did 8% extra single target damage AND ignored 10% of your opponent's armor? If only stamina were so lucky.
And when I vest my flashing sword, and my hand takes hold in judgement, I will take vengeance upon mine enemies, and I will repay those who hase me. O Lord, raise me to Thy right hand and count me among Thy saints.
  • austinwalter87ub17_ESO
    austinwalter87ub17_ESO
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    You can 1 shot tanks with 2h Ulti.

    Secret builds
    PC and PS4 (bring back character transfers please?)
    Templar Extraordinaire
  • FriedEggSandwich
    FriedEggSandwich
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    Can you imagine if the greatsword did 8% extra single target damage AND ignored 10% of your opponent's armor? If only stamina were so lucky.

    I don't know what they were thinking tbh. Imo this now paves the way for magicka class nerfs because certain setups might now be op af. Inb4 curse and frag nerfs because sorcs now hit too hard. I might just be being cynical. I hope so.
    PC | EU
  • thankyourat
    thankyourat
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    Can you imagine if the greatsword did 8% extra single target damage AND ignored 10% of your opponent's armor? If only stamina were so lucky.

    Destro has better passives but 2hand has better abilities at least PvP wise. Destro has the better ultimate. It seems pretty balanced
  • Dracane
    Dracane
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    But this 10% penetration doesn't help much. Because all destruction abilities are rather low dps abilities, that only do something when stacked together and they are used as an addtition to your more important class skills. Not including elemental storm though.

    Stamina would actually profit from this, because uppercut and reversed slash are infact very strong bursty damage and would become much stronger from this. Thought 2 handed melee weapons already have higher base damage and swords offers 5% more damage, that affects ALL damage, not only 1 kind of damage. 2 handed is much better than staves as it is.
    Penetrating magic should affect all spells while holding a staff, in my opinion.
    Follow her on Instagram: dracane_diamandis

    https://www.instagram.com/dracane_diamandis

    Auri-El is my lord !
  • willlienellson
    willlienellson
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    You can 1 shot tanks with 2h Ulti.

    Secret builds

    Not that secret. Also not practical.
    Sometimes it's fun to troll the trolls.
  • Strider_Roshin
    Strider_Roshin
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    2h has pretty nice passives themselves.

    Mace - Ignore 20% of armor on all skills not just 2h.
    Axe - Massive dot bleed
    Sword - 5% dmg increase on all skills.

    Straight 20% cost reduction on skills

    10% dmg boost on heavy attacks.
    30% stam recovery boost for 10s after killing an enemy.

    2h isn't exactly lacking for very strong skills.

    Yeah but let's be honest. No one goes through Cyrodiil spamming cleave so the 5% additional damage to AoEs is not utilized.
    And when I vest my flashing sword, and my hand takes hold in judgement, I will take vengeance upon mine enemies, and I will repay those who hase me. O Lord, raise me to Thy right hand and count me among Thy saints.
  • leepalmer95
    leepalmer95
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    2h has pretty nice passives themselves.

    Mace - Ignore 20% of armor on all skills not just 2h.
    Axe - Massive dot bleed
    Sword - 5% dmg increase on all skills.

    Straight 20% cost reduction on skills

    10% dmg boost on heavy attacks.
    30% stam recovery boost for 10s after killing an enemy.

    2h isn't exactly lacking for very strong skills.

    Yeah but let's be honest. No one goes through Cyrodiil spamming cleave so the 5% additional damage to AoEs is not utilized.

    But it does buff all aoe's including dawnbreaker
    PS4 EU DC

    Current CP : 756+

    I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.


    RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...
  • Strider_Roshin
    Strider_Roshin
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    Can you imagine if the greatsword did 8% extra single target damage AND ignored 10% of your opponent's armor? If only stamina were so lucky.

    Destro has better passives but 2hand has better abilities at least PvP wise. Destro has the better ultimate. It seems pretty balanced

    Rally is fantastic I agree, but Force Pulse is way better than Uppercut. Wall of Elements is also Superior to Cleave, and Flame Reach is an excellent CC.

    I would say that the 2H has 3 good moves; whereas the Destro has 4. Not a significant difference, but I wouldn't say that the 2H has the superior moveset.
    And when I vest my flashing sword, and my hand takes hold in judgement, I will take vengeance upon mine enemies, and I will repay those who hase me. O Lord, raise me to Thy right hand and count me among Thy saints.
  • Strider_Roshin
    Strider_Roshin
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    2h has pretty nice passives themselves.

    Mace - Ignore 20% of armor on all skills not just 2h.
    Axe - Massive dot bleed
    Sword - 5% dmg increase on all skills.

    Straight 20% cost reduction on skills

    10% dmg boost on heavy attacks.
    30% stam recovery boost for 10s after killing an enemy.

    2h isn't exactly lacking for very strong skills.

    Yeah but let's be honest. No one goes through Cyrodiil spamming cleave so the 5% additional damage to AoEs is not utilized.

    But it does buff all aoe's including dawnbreaker

    So one attack? I'm just saying that the additional 8% for ST would be more utilized by far.
    And when I vest my flashing sword, and my hand takes hold in judgement, I will take vengeance upon mine enemies, and I will repay those who hase me. O Lord, raise me to Thy right hand and count me among Thy saints.
  • leepalmer95
    leepalmer95
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    2h has pretty nice passives themselves.

    Mace - Ignore 20% of armor on all skills not just 2h.
    Axe - Massive dot bleed
    Sword - 5% dmg increase on all skills.

    Straight 20% cost reduction on skills

    10% dmg boost on heavy attacks.
    30% stam recovery boost for 10s after killing an enemy.

    2h isn't exactly lacking for very strong skills.

    Yeah but let's be honest. No one goes through Cyrodiil spamming cleave so the 5% additional damage to AoEs is not utilized.

    But it does buff all aoe's including dawnbreaker

    So one attack? I'm just saying that the additional 8% for ST would be more utilized by far.

    Yeah so it's 3% more on single target, but 2h have higher base dmg than staffs anyway.

    PS4 EU DC

    Current CP : 756+

    I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.


    RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...
  • thankyourat
    thankyourat
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    Force pulse is very weak though. Even with uppercut being hard to land it will eventually land and when it does hit hurts. wall is better than cleave by a large margin. Crit rush hits way too hard for a gap closer. Reverse slice is also beast. Clench is OK I guess I use it in duels sometimes. 2hand is such a complete weapon skill line. Gap closer, burst damage, burst heal, execute. You really can't beat it for PvP. It's complete garbage in PvE though. Destro is more of a support weapon for magicka builds who use mostly class skills. It's not as complete as 2hand but it doesn't need to be cause magicka builds have plenty of utility from class skills
  • Strider_Roshin
    Strider_Roshin
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    Force pulse is very weak though. Even with uppercut being hard to land it will eventually land and when it does hit hurts. wall is better than cleave by a large margin. Crit rush hits way too hard for a gap closer. Reverse slice is also beast. Clench is OK I guess I use it in duels sometimes. 2hand is such a complete weapon skill line. Gap closer, burst damage, burst heal, execute. You really can't beat it for PvP. It's complete garbage in PvE though. Destro is more of a support weapon for magicka builds who use mostly class skills. It's not as complete as 2hand but it doesn't need to be cause magicka builds have plenty of utility from class skills

    Crit Rush is very OP I agree (it cost less stamina, and deals way more damage than Ambush). I still prefer Force Pulse over Uppercut, but that's personal preference. Essentially what I'm saying is that I find the two weapons comparable in terms of abilities, but the destro is definitely superior in terms of passives (damage-wise).
    And when I vest my flashing sword, and my hand takes hold in judgement, I will take vengeance upon mine enemies, and I will repay those who hase me. O Lord, raise me to Thy right hand and count me among Thy saints.
  • Strider_Roshin
    Strider_Roshin
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    2h has pretty nice passives themselves.

    Mace - Ignore 20% of armor on all skills not just 2h.
    Axe - Massive dot bleed
    Sword - 5% dmg increase on all skills.

    Straight 20% cost reduction on skills

    10% dmg boost on heavy attacks.
    30% stam recovery boost for 10s after killing an enemy.

    2h isn't exactly lacking for very strong skills.

    Yeah but let's be honest. No one goes through Cyrodiil spamming cleave so the 5% additional damage to AoEs is not utilized.

    But it does buff all aoe's including dawnbreaker

    So one attack? I'm just saying that the additional 8% for ST would be more utilized by far.

    Yeah so it's 3% more on single target, but 2h have higher base dmg than staffs anyway.

    How much more are we talking? I'm at the gym, otherwise I'd check myself.
    And when I vest my flashing sword, and my hand takes hold in judgement, I will take vengeance upon mine enemies, and I will repay those who hase me. O Lord, raise me to Thy right hand and count me among Thy saints.
  • alephthiago
    alephthiago
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    Imagine if the destro staff had major sorcery buff that doesnt require any enemies nearby, execute with 50% hp range, HoT + Burst heal OR immunity to snares and ignore 20% spell resist....
    Walks-in-Shadowss AD Magblade
    *** kitty AD Stamblade
    Paarthurnax's Will AD Magicka DK
    agnar cracked skull EP Magicka DK (veteran dragonstar arena bot)
    Klogi Mugdul AD Stamina DK
    Savre Selranni AD Magicka Sorc (being polished)
    Avenar Lolhealing AD Magicka Templar (being polished)

  • thankyourat
    thankyourat
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    2h has pretty nice passives themselves.

    Mace - Ignore 20% of armor on all skills not just 2h.
    Axe - Massive dot bleed
    Sword - 5% dmg increase on all skills.

    Straight 20% cost reduction on skills

    10% dmg boost on heavy attacks.
    30% stam recovery boost for 10s after killing an enemy.

    2h isn't exactly lacking for very strong skills.

    Yeah but let's be honest. No one goes through Cyrodiil spamming cleave so the 5% additional damage to AoEs is not utilized.

    But it does buff all aoe's including dawnbreaker

    So one attack? I'm just saying that the additional 8% for ST would be more utilized by far.

    Yeah so it's 3% more on single target, but 2h have higher base dmg than staffs anyway.

    How much more are we talking? I'm at the gym, otherwise I'd check myself.

    2hand sword gold weapon damage is 1571 and staff is 1335
  • psychotic13
    psychotic13
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    You can 1 shot tanks with 2h Ulti.

    Secret builds

    Blobs put it on YouTube it's hardly secret
  • leepalmer95
    leepalmer95
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    2h has pretty nice passives themselves.

    Mace - Ignore 20% of armor on all skills not just 2h.
    Axe - Massive dot bleed
    Sword - 5% dmg increase on all skills.

    Straight 20% cost reduction on skills

    10% dmg boost on heavy attacks.
    30% stam recovery boost for 10s after killing an enemy.

    2h isn't exactly lacking for very strong skills.

    Yeah but let's be honest. No one goes through Cyrodiil spamming cleave so the 5% additional damage to AoEs is not utilized.

    But it does buff all aoe's including dawnbreaker

    So one attack? I'm just saying that the additional 8% for ST would be more utilized by far.

    Yeah so it's 3% more on single target, but 2h have higher base dmg than staffs anyway.

    How much more are we talking? I'm at the gym, otherwise I'd check myself.

    2hand sword gold weapon damage is 1571 and staff is 1335

    So thats 236 unbuffed extra dmg.

    If we add brutality its 283 extra wpn dmg. We'll ignore other class passives and fighters guild for now.

    The actual % this increases depends on the users stats, the higher they are the lower actual % dps increase this is.

    Lets take a normal build of like 35k stamina and 3500 weapon dmg.

    Convert the stamina to weapon dmg in a 10:1 ratio e.g. 1000 stamina = 100 wpn dmg (it's actually 1050 or something but for simplicity sake)

    So this build would have the equivilant of 7000 weapon dmg.

    283 extra weapon dmg would equal 283/7000 x 100 = 4.04% damage increase (e.g. boosts tooltips by 4.04%) so just 4%

    So the dmg is roughly the same even with the inferno buff, a 2h sword (if we add the 5% passive) will have the same or more increased dmg to everything while a inferno will only increase single target by 8%.

    Edited by leepalmer95 on January 31, 2017 12:10PM
    PS4 EU DC

    Current CP : 756+

    I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.


    RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...
  • thankyourat
    thankyourat
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    Force pulse is very weak though. Even with uppercut being hard to land it will eventually land and when it does hit hurts. wall is better than cleave by a large margin. Crit rush hits way too hard for a gap closer. Reverse slice is also beast. Clench is OK I guess I use it in duels sometimes. 2hand is such a complete weapon skill line. Gap closer, burst damage, burst heal, execute. You really can't beat it for PvP. It's complete garbage in PvE though. Destro is more of a support weapon for magicka builds who use mostly class skills. It's not as complete as 2hand but it doesn't need to be cause magicka builds have plenty of utility from class skills

    Crit Rush is very OP I agree (it cost less stamina, and deals way more damage than Ambush). I still prefer Force Pulse over Uppercut, but that's personal preference. Essentially what I'm saying is that I find the two weapons comparable in terms of abilities, but the destro is definitely superior in terms of passives (damage-wise).

    Also to be noted the damage boost to passives only come after the next update. As of right now 2hand had the better damage passives because swords increase your damage by 5℅ and after you do a fully charged heavy attack your next attack will be 10℅ stronger. After the update fire staffs will hit 3℅ harder than 2hand swords. (Which will pretty much even out because of the 2hand higher base damage) The 10℅ spell pen only counts for destro abilities. Which other than the destro ultimate aren't used too often in PvP. (Sorcs use force pulse but that's mainly the only class using that ability)
  • Izaki
    Izaki
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    2h has pretty nice passives themselves.

    Mace - Ignore 20% of armor on all skills not just 2h.
    Axe - Massive dot bleed
    Sword - 5% dmg increase on all skills.

    Straight 20% cost reduction on skills

    10% dmg boost on heavy attacks.
    30% stam recovery boost for 10s after killing an enemy.

    2h isn't exactly lacking for very strong skills.

    Yeah but let's be honest. No one goes through Cyrodiil spamming cleave so the 5% additional damage to AoEs is not utilized.

    But it does buff all aoe's including dawnbreaker

    So one attack? I'm just saying that the additional 8% for ST would be more utilized by far.

    Yeah so it's 3% more on single target, but 2h have higher base dmg than staffs anyway.

    How much more are we talking? I'm at the gym, otherwise I'd check myself.

    Around 2-3% damage increase from the extra stats on 2H. So its the same as staves. But Sorcs and NBs will be nuking people big time.
    @ Izaki #PCEU
    #FrenchKiss #MidnightSlayers
    #MoreDPSthanYou #ImmortalRedeemerOnStamblade
    #Stamblade
  • Dracane
    Dracane
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    Can you imagine if the greatsword did 8% extra single target damage AND ignored 10% of your opponent's armor? If only stamina were so lucky.

    Destro has better passives but 2hand has better abilities at least PvP wise. Destro has the better ultimate. It seems pretty balanced

    Rally is fantastic I agree, but Force Pulse is way better than Uppercut. Wall of Elements is also Superior to Cleave, and Flame Reach is an excellent CC.

    I would say that the 2H has 3 good moves; whereas the Destro has 4. Not a significant difference, but I wouldn't say that the 2H has the superior moveset.

    2 handers moveset is more appealing for pvp though, it offers exactly what you need. Burst and an execute and a strong gap closer. Dps is not that helpfull in pvp, which destruction staff is entirely made of.

    It's really nothing more than an addition to your class skills, destruction staff abilities are not independant. While 2 hander abilities definately are, you can rely soloely on them.
    Please keep in mind, that elemental storm is excluded from all the points that I have made.

    But people should stop acting like 8% more damage is going to make such a huge difference (where you have to decide between Aoe and single target, so not an overall 8%)
    It's a good feeling for sure, but it will not increase their damage by an amount you're going to notice. Destruction staff really needed this in my opinion, staves should empower magic, not dual wield.
    Edited by Dracane on January 31, 2017 12:30PM
    Follow her on Instagram: dracane_diamandis

    https://www.instagram.com/dracane_diamandis

    Auri-El is my lord !
  • Strider_Roshin
    Strider_Roshin
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    2h has pretty nice passives themselves.

    Mace - Ignore 20% of armor on all skills not just 2h.
    Axe - Massive dot bleed
    Sword - 5% dmg increase on all skills.

    Straight 20% cost reduction on skills

    10% dmg boost on heavy attacks.
    30% stam recovery boost for 10s after killing an enemy.

    2h isn't exactly lacking for very strong skills.

    Yeah but let's be honest. No one goes through Cyrodiil spamming cleave so the 5% additional damage to AoEs is not utilized.

    But it does buff all aoe's including dawnbreaker

    So one attack? I'm just saying that the additional 8% for ST would be more utilized by far.

    Yeah so it's 3% more on single target, but 2h have higher base dmg than staffs anyway.

    How much more are we talking? I'm at the gym, otherwise I'd check myself.

    2hand sword gold weapon damage is 1571 and staff is 1335

    So thats 236 unbuffed extra dmg.

    If we add brutality its 283 extra wpn dmg. We'll ignore other class passives and fighters guild for now.

    The actual % this increases depends on the users stats, the higher they are the lower actual % dps increase this is.

    Lets take a normal build of like 35k stamina and 3500 weapon dmg.

    Convert the stamina to weapon dmg in a 10:1 ratio e.g. 1000 stamina = 100 wpn dmg (it's actually 1050 or something but for simplicity sake)

    So this build would have the equivilant of 7000 weapon dmg.

    283 extra weapon dmg would equal 283/7000 x 100 = 4.04% damage increase (e.g. boosts tooltips by 4.04%) so just 4%

    So the dmg is roughly the same even with the inferno buff, a 2h sword (if we add the 5% passive) will have the same or more increased dmg to everything while a inferno will only increase single target by 8%.

    True, but keep this in mind: 10% of 18.5k is 1,850 spell resistance which equates to a 3% damage increase. With this in mind, destro outperforms the 2H ST damage by 4%. And considering the fact that magicka already outperforms stamina drastically in terms of AoE, and Survivability; this is not remotely balanced.
    And when I vest my flashing sword, and my hand takes hold in judgement, I will take vengeance upon mine enemies, and I will repay those who hase me. O Lord, raise me to Thy right hand and count me among Thy saints.
  • Strider_Roshin
    Strider_Roshin
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    Dracane wrote: »
    Can you imagine if the greatsword did 8% extra single target damage AND ignored 10% of your opponent's armor? If only stamina were so lucky.

    Destro has better passives but 2hand has better abilities at least PvP wise. Destro has the better ultimate. It seems pretty balanced

    Rally is fantastic I agree, but Force Pulse is way better than Uppercut. Wall of Elements is also Superior to Cleave, and Flame Reach is an excellent CC.

    I would say that the 2H has 3 good moves; whereas the Destro has 4. Not a significant difference, but I wouldn't say that the 2H has the superior moveset.

    2 handers moveset is more appealing for pvp though, it offers exactly what you need. Burst and an execute and a strong gap closer. Dps is not that helpfull in pvp, which destruction staff is entirely made of.

    It's really nothing more than an addition to your class skills, destruction staff abilities are not independant. While 2 hander abilities definately are, you can rely soloely on them.
    Please keep in mind, that elemental storm is excluded from all the points that I have made.

    But people should stop acting like 8% more damage is going to make such a huge difference (where you have to decide between Aoe and single target, so not an overall 8%)
    It's a good feeling for sure, but it will not increase their damage by an amount you're going to notice. Destruction staff really needed this in my opinion, staves should empower magic, not dual wield.

    Though I do not disagree with your point about staves vs DW. Where should stamina excel? Because as it stands if you succeed while being stam you deserve an applause. Stam used to have the ST niche, but now that's gone. We have crap AoE, and crap survivability.

    How is that remotely balanced? Is the game balanced in the magicka community's eyes when stam is feces in comparison? Because it sure does look that way.
    And when I vest my flashing sword, and my hand takes hold in judgement, I will take vengeance upon mine enemies, and I will repay those who hase me. O Lord, raise me to Thy right hand and count me among Thy saints.
  • thankyourat
    thankyourat
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    Dracane wrote: »
    Can you imagine if the greatsword did 8% extra single target damage AND ignored 10% of your opponent's armor? If only stamina were so lucky.

    Destro has better passives but 2hand has better abilities at least PvP wise. Destro has the better ultimate. It seems pretty balanced

    Rally is fantastic I agree, but Force Pulse is way better than Uppercut. Wall of Elements is also Superior to Cleave, and Flame Reach is an excellent CC.

    I would say that the 2H has 3 good moves; whereas the Destro has 4. Not a significant difference, but I wouldn't say that the 2H has the superior moveset.

    2 handers moveset is more appealing for pvp though, it offers exactly what you need. Burst and an execute and a strong gap closer. Dps is not that helpfull in pvp, which destruction staff is entirely made of.

    It's really nothing more than an addition to your class skills, destruction staff abilities are not independant. While 2 hander abilities definately are, you can rely soloely on them.
    Please keep in mind, that elemental storm is excluded from all the points that I have made.

    But people should stop acting like 8% more damage is going to make such a huge difference (where you have to decide between Aoe and single target, so not an overall 8%)
    It's a good feeling for sure, but it will not increase their damage by an amount you're going to notice. Destruction staff really needed this in my opinion, staves should empower magic, not dual wield.

    Though I do not disagree with your point about staves vs DW. Where should stamina excel? Because as it stands if you succeed while being stam you deserve an applause. Stam used to have the ST niche, but now that's gone. We have crap AoE, and crap survivability.

    How is that remotely balanced? Is the game balanced in the magicka community's eyes when stam is feces in comparison? Because it sure does look that way.

    I don't think stamina survivability is crap in PvP. PvE mainly trials stamina is in a bad place, but it's still top dog for open world small scale pvp. Because of mobility which is the best survival tool in small scale pvp and easily accessible burst damage which magicka doesn't have because they have to set up their burst. Magicka builds (excluding magsorc) are just beginning too slow for solo/small scale pvp. Mag is better for large group play and AP farming, stam is better for small open field group play
  • thankyourat
    thankyourat
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    Dracane wrote: »
    Can you imagine if the greatsword did 8% extra single target damage AND ignored 10% of your opponent's armor? If only stamina were so lucky.

    Destro has better passives but 2hand has better abilities at least PvP wise. Destro has the better ultimate. It seems pretty balanced

    Rally is fantastic I agree, but Force Pulse is way better than Uppercut. Wall of Elements is also Superior to Cleave, and Flame Reach is an excellent CC.

    I would say that the 2H has 3 good moves; whereas the Destro has 4. Not a significant difference, but I wouldn't say that the 2H has the superior moveset.

    2 handers moveset is more appealing for pvp though, it offers exactly what you need. Burst and an execute and a strong gap closer. Dps is not that helpfull in pvp, which destruction staff is entirely made of.

    It's really nothing more than an addition to your class skills, destruction staff abilities are not independant. While 2 hander abilities definately are, you can rely soloely on them.
    Please keep in mind, that elemental storm is excluded from all the points that I have made.

    But people should stop acting like 8% more damage is going to make such a huge difference (where you have to decide between Aoe and single target, so not an overall 8%)
    It's a good feeling for sure, but it will not increase their damage by an amount you're going to notice. Destruction staff really needed this in my opinion, staves should empower magic, not dual wield.

    Though I do not disagree with your point about staves vs DW. Where should stamina excel? Because as it stands if you succeed while being stam you deserve an applause. Stam used to have the ST niche, but now that's gone. We have crap AoE, and crap survivability.

    How is that remotely balanced? Is the game balanced in the magicka community's eyes when stam is feces in comparison? Because it sure does look that way.

    I don't think stamina survivability is crap in PvP. PvE mainly trials stamina is in a bad place, but it's still top dog for open world small scale pvp. Because of mobility which is the best survival tool in small scale pvp and easily accessible burst damage which magicka doesn't have because they have to set up their burst. Magicka builds (excluding magsorc) are just beginning too slow for solo/small scale pvp. Mag is better for large group play and AP farming, stam is better for small open field group play

    EDIT: also stamina is pretty good in 1v1s the only place I see a true imbalance is in pve. I don't know how they would buff stamina in PvE without making them too strong in PvP. Because even without proc sets every stam character has higher burst damage than its magicka counterpart
  • Strider_Roshin
    Strider_Roshin
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    Dracane wrote: »
    Can you imagine if the greatsword did 8% extra single target damage AND ignored 10% of your opponent's armor? If only stamina were so lucky.

    Destro has better passives but 2hand has better abilities at least PvP wise. Destro has the better ultimate. It seems pretty balanced

    Rally is fantastic I agree, but Force Pulse is way better than Uppercut. Wall of Elements is also Superior to Cleave, and Flame Reach is an excellent CC.

    I would say that the 2H has 3 good moves; whereas the Destro has 4. Not a significant difference, but I wouldn't say that the 2H has the superior moveset.

    2 handers moveset is more appealing for pvp though, it offers exactly what you need. Burst and an execute and a strong gap closer. Dps is not that helpfull in pvp, which destruction staff is entirely made of.

    It's really nothing more than an addition to your class skills, destruction staff abilities are not independant. While 2 hander abilities definately are, you can rely soloely on them.
    Please keep in mind, that elemental storm is excluded from all the points that I have made.

    But people should stop acting like 8% more damage is going to make such a huge difference (where you have to decide between Aoe and single target, so not an overall 8%)
    It's a good feeling for sure, but it will not increase their damage by an amount you're going to notice. Destruction staff really needed this in my opinion, staves should empower magic, not dual wield.

    Though I do not disagree with your point about staves vs DW. Where should stamina excel? Because as it stands if you succeed while being stam you deserve an applause. Stam used to have the ST niche, but now that's gone. We have crap AoE, and crap survivability.

    How is that remotely balanced? Is the game balanced in the magicka community's eyes when stam is feces in comparison? Because it sure does look that way.

    I don't think stamina survivability is crap in PvP. PvE mainly trials stamina is in a bad place, but it's still top dog for open world small scale pvp. Because of mobility which is the best survival tool in small scale pvp and easily accessible burst damage which magicka doesn't have because they have to set up their burst. Magicka builds (excluding magsorc) are just beginning too slow for solo/small scale pvp. Mag is better for large group play and AP farming, stam is better for small open field group play

    I would disagree. I find magicka completely superior in PvP. Solo play is best as a mag sorc. Dueling is completely dominated by MagDK, and group PvP is the most efficient when you have a magplar with you. Magicka will always be Superior as long as their shields can mitigate everything in the game. If your stam your survivability is garbage since ZOS has made a ridiculous amount of abilities undodgeable in this game.
    And when I vest my flashing sword, and my hand takes hold in judgement, I will take vengeance upon mine enemies, and I will repay those who hase me. O Lord, raise me to Thy right hand and count me among Thy saints.
  • Derra
    Derra
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    2h has pretty nice passives themselves.

    Mace - Ignore 20% of armor on all skills not just 2h.
    Axe - Massive dot bleed
    Sword - 5% dmg increase on all skills.

    Straight 20% cost reduction on skills

    10% dmg boost on heavy attacks.
    30% stam recovery boost for 10s after killing an enemy.

    2h isn't exactly lacking for very strong skills.

    Yeah but let's be honest. No one goes through Cyrodiil spamming cleave so the 5% additional damage to AoEs is not utilized.

    But it does buff all aoe's including dawnbreaker

    So one attack? I'm just saying that the additional 8% for ST would be more utilized by far.

    Yeah so it's 3% more on single target, but 2h have higher base dmg than staffs anyway.

    How much more are we talking? I'm at the gym, otherwise I'd check myself.

    2hand sword gold weapon damage is 1571 and staff is 1335

    So thats 236 unbuffed extra dmg.

    If we add brutality its 283 extra wpn dmg. We'll ignore other class passives and fighters guild for now.

    The actual % this increases depends on the users stats, the higher they are the lower actual % dps increase this is.

    Lets take a normal build of like 35k stamina and 3500 weapon dmg.

    Convert the stamina to weapon dmg in a 10:1 ratio e.g. 1000 stamina = 100 wpn dmg (it's actually 1050 or something but for simplicity sake)

    So this build would have the equivilant of 7000 weapon dmg.

    283 extra weapon dmg would equal 283/7000 x 100 = 4.04% damage increase (e.g. boosts tooltips by 4.04%) so just 4%

    So the dmg is roughly the same even with the inferno buff, a 2h sword (if we add the 5% passive) will have the same or more increased dmg to everything while a inferno will only increase single target by 8%.

    True, but keep this in mind: 10% of 18.5k is 1,850 spell resistance which equates to a 3% damage increase. With this in mind, destro outperforms the 2H ST damage by 4%. And considering the fact that magicka already outperforms stamina drastically in terms of AoE, and Survivability; this is not remotely balanced.

    2h is simply a utility pvp weaponline where pve dmg comparisons have no place.
    Also destro passives (apart from 8% dmg increase) are still tied to destro abilities (resource return and pierce).

    2h offers a burstheal. 2h offers the best gapcloser (apart from ambush). 2h offers a decent spammable attack that also ccs. 2h offers the best finisher.
    <Noricum>
    I live. I die. I live again.

    Derra - DC - Sorc - Grand Overlord - Spotless Dro-m'Athra Destroyer pre one Tamriel
    Derrah - EP - Sorc - Grand Overlord
    ... - DC - NB

  • Strider_Roshin
    Strider_Roshin
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    Derra wrote: »
    2h has pretty nice passives themselves.

    Mace - Ignore 20% of armor on all skills not just 2h.
    Axe - Massive dot bleed
    Sword - 5% dmg increase on all skills.

    Straight 20% cost reduction on skills

    10% dmg boost on heavy attacks.
    30% stam recovery boost for 10s after killing an enemy.

    2h isn't exactly lacking for very strong skills.

    Yeah but let's be honest. No one goes through Cyrodiil spamming cleave so the 5% additional damage to AoEs is not utilized.

    But it does buff all aoe's including dawnbreaker

    So one attack? I'm just saying that the additional 8% for ST would be more utilized by far.

    Yeah so it's 3% more on single target, but 2h have higher base dmg than staffs anyway.

    How much more are we talking? I'm at the gym, otherwise I'd check myself.

    2hand sword gold weapon damage is 1571 and staff is 1335

    So thats 236 unbuffed extra dmg.

    If we add brutality its 283 extra wpn dmg. We'll ignore other class passives and fighters guild for now.

    The actual % this increases depends on the users stats, the higher they are the lower actual % dps increase this is.

    Lets take a normal build of like 35k stamina and 3500 weapon dmg.

    Convert the stamina to weapon dmg in a 10:1 ratio e.g. 1000 stamina = 100 wpn dmg (it's actually 1050 or something but for simplicity sake)

    So this build would have the equivilant of 7000 weapon dmg.

    283 extra weapon dmg would equal 283/7000 x 100 = 4.04% damage increase (e.g. boosts tooltips by 4.04%) so just 4%

    So the dmg is roughly the same even with the inferno buff, a 2h sword (if we add the 5% passive) will have the same or more increased dmg to everything while a inferno will only increase single target by 8%.

    True, but keep this in mind: 10% of 18.5k is 1,850 spell resistance which equates to a 3% damage increase. With this in mind, destro outperforms the 2H ST damage by 4%. And considering the fact that magicka already outperforms stamina drastically in terms of AoE, and Survivability; this is not remotely balanced.

    2h is simply a utility pvp weaponline where pve dmg comparisons have no place.
    Also destro passives (apart from 8% dmg increase) are still tied to destro abilities (resource return and pierce).

    2h offers a burstheal. 2h offers the best gapcloser (apart from ambush). 2h offers a decent spammable attack that also ccs. 2h offers the best finisher.

    It is one of the worst abilities in the game. And that burst heal can only be used effectively once every 15 seconds.
    And when I vest my flashing sword, and my hand takes hold in judgement, I will take vengeance upon mine enemies, and I will repay those who hase me. O Lord, raise me to Thy right hand and count me among Thy saints.
  • thankyourat
    thankyourat
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    Dracane wrote: »
    Can you imagine if the greatsword did 8% extra single target damage AND ignored 10% of your opponent's armor? If only stamina were so lucky.

    Destro has better passives but 2hand has better abilities at least PvP wise. Destro has the better ultimate. It seems pretty balanced

    Rally is fantastic I agree, but Force Pulse is way better than Uppercut. Wall of Elements is also Superior to Cleave, and Flame Reach is an excellent CC.

    I would say that the 2H has 3 good moves; whereas the Destro has 4. Not a significant difference, but I wouldn't say that the 2H has the superior moveset.

    2 handers moveset is more appealing for pvp though, it offers exactly what you need. Burst and an execute and a strong gap closer. Dps is not that helpfull in pvp, which destruction staff is entirely made of.

    It's really nothing more than an addition to your class skills, destruction staff abilities are not independant. While 2 hander abilities definately are, you can rely soloely on them.
    Please keep in mind, that elemental storm is excluded from all the points that I have made.

    But people should stop acting like 8% more damage is going to make such a huge difference (where you have to decide between Aoe and single target, so not an overall 8%)
    It's a good feeling for sure, but it will not increase their damage by an amount you're going to notice. Destruction staff really needed this in my opinion, staves should empower magic, not dual wield.

    Though I do not disagree with your point about staves vs DW. Where should stamina excel? Because as it stands if you succeed while being stam you deserve an applause. Stam used to have the ST niche, but now that's gone. We have crap AoE, and crap survivability.

    How is that remotely balanced? Is the game balanced in the magicka community's eyes when stam is feces in comparison? Because it sure does look that way.

    I don't think stamina survivability is crap in PvP. PvE mainly trials stamina is in a bad place, but it's still top dog for open world small scale pvp. Because of mobility which is the best survival tool in small scale pvp and easily accessible burst damage which magicka doesn't have because they have to set up their burst. Magicka builds (excluding magsorc) are just beginning too slow for solo/small scale pvp. Mag is better for large group play and AP farming, stam is better for small open field group play

    I would disagree. I find magicka completely superior in PvP. Solo play is best as a mag sorc. Dueling is completely dominated by MagDK, and group PvP is the most efficient when you have a magplar with you. Magicka will always be Superior as long as their shields can mitigate everything in the game. If your stam your survivability is garbage since ZOS has made a ridiculous amount of abilities undodgeable in this game.

    I think solo play is best as a stam sorc, honestly I don't think anything comes close to it. With stamblade coming in second. I also think stam dk is better for dueling. a little over mag dk. Shields aren't that great in small scale PvP unless you are a sorc and are stacking multiple shields they aren't really that strong. I find dodge roll to be the superior defensive ability while playing solo and fighting multiple people. Shields scale so poorly and they are so expensive. It's the main reason why I switched to heavy armor shields just don't get the job done when fighting outnumbered. Even 1v1 I don't have a problem with dealing with shields I find that if I keep pressuring them eventually I start to get through the shield as they waste magicka keeping it up 100℅ of the time. Like me I play magblade mainly and then I play stamblade when I need a change of pace. It's so much easier for me to solo on my stamblade. I find a stam dk or stam sorc alot harder to take down than a mag sorc. I find stam dk the hardest build to kill. The survivability they have is unmatched. The only Stam class that I feel that's lacking survivability is stamblade and even then with line of sight they become decently survivable. I don't think PvP is so unbalanced I only feel 2 classes are just over performing. Stam sorc for small scale. And magplar for large scale (a tank healer is just bad design) every class is viable right now in PvP. PvE is a different story, shield are actually really strong in PvE
  • Dracane
    Dracane
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    Dracane wrote: »
    Can you imagine if the greatsword did 8% extra single target damage AND ignored 10% of your opponent's armor? If only stamina were so lucky.

    Destro has better passives but 2hand has better abilities at least PvP wise. Destro has the better ultimate. It seems pretty balanced

    Rally is fantastic I agree, but Force Pulse is way better than Uppercut. Wall of Elements is also Superior to Cleave, and Flame Reach is an excellent CC.

    I would say that the 2H has 3 good moves; whereas the Destro has 4. Not a significant difference, but I wouldn't say that the 2H has the superior moveset.

    2 handers moveset is more appealing for pvp though, it offers exactly what you need. Burst and an execute and a strong gap closer. Dps is not that helpfull in pvp, which destruction staff is entirely made of.

    It's really nothing more than an addition to your class skills, destruction staff abilities are not independant. While 2 hander abilities definately are, you can rely soloely on them.
    Please keep in mind, that elemental storm is excluded from all the points that I have made.

    But people should stop acting like 8% more damage is going to make such a huge difference (where you have to decide between Aoe and single target, so not an overall 8%)
    It's a good feeling for sure, but it will not increase their damage by an amount you're going to notice. Destruction staff really needed this in my opinion, staves should empower magic, not dual wield.

    Though I do not disagree with your point about staves vs DW. Where should stamina excel? Because as it stands if you succeed while being stam you deserve an applause. Stam used to have the ST niche, but now that's gone. We have crap AoE, and crap survivability.

    How is that remotely balanced? Is the game balanced in the magicka community's eyes when stam is feces in comparison? Because it sure does look that way.

    How do you come to this statement hun ? I mean, it's well known, that stamina was reigning supreme for quite some time now. This reign was a bit overshadowed, since elemental storm became more and more popular and drove many people to run magicka builds for this.

    Stamina is getting turned down next patch, but it still excells in pvp. Stamina is still great in pvp and still enjoys benefits, that magicka isn't able to profit from. For example a danger free use of all ressource pools.

    But elemental storm is also getting nerfed by 15%. Though this only hits solo magicka players who needed it to stand a chance vs several opponents. Zergs will, sadly, barely notice the difference. So the only real reason why magicka excels in pvp, is Templars and elemental storm.
    Edited by Dracane on January 31, 2017 2:09PM
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