Getting weaker when you level up, how do you feel?

Tapio75

There you go, im just interested to know how you others feel? Ever since One Tamriel, it has felt for me and especially on my NB, that the higher my level is, the weaker i am, especially that CP 160+ NB feels bad compared to same class/race build which is lower level. Testing to same NPC enemies.

After voting, pleasew tell your class/race/armor/weapon combinatyion below if nothing else.

Voxicity

Yes

I feel yes


whatever that means

Tapio75

Yes

For me, the worst is NB, the more i level, the weaker they get, no matter what build i try. With my CP160+ NB, i have spent tens of thousands of gold trying to get one working build that feels good but only heavy armor with sword and board has been somewhat good though it does not feel very assasin to me which my character pretends to be.. Currently bow using with medium armor, keeps dying and sneak attacks from behind rarely get the bonus at all.

My NB, no matter the build just sucks at high levels while other still keep up well though sorc and Templar feel slightly weaker.

It makes no sense since wwhen i am attacking the exact same enemies, they get way stronger when i level up, should i be the one who gets better when gaining experience?

Nestor

Other/indifferent

As for the Buff going away as I level, it is better than what we had before and about the only way to make a character that progresses and works in a world where all content is scaled to one level.

driosketch

Other/indifferent

"How do you feel?" isn't really a yes or no question. But basically, even as the raw damage of that first tier spamable and inflated stats start to sink, your tool kit grows. Kind of like riding a bike the first time the training wheels come off. You won't be perfectly upright all the time at first like before, but once experience develops you'll eventually become a better rider over all.

ADarklore

Yes

I noticed this too. Created a new character and did some questing, switched to my max level character and went back to the same enemies, definitely noticed that the 'feel' was different and the enemies took slightly longer to defeat. Keep in mind I was using the same race/class and rotation on both characters- so it wasn't a class/race issue... it was definitely the 'level' because of OT's battle leveling system.

srfrogg23

Other/indifferent

Not sure what you were going for with Yes and No in this poll, but I understand Indifferent pretty well.

So, here's the thing:

The same thing happens in every other MMO, the only difference between ESO and the zone-to-zone MMOs is that in ESO the numbers start at max level across the board. For the enemies, the players, everyone. And, in ESO you have to continually upgrade your gear to keep the numbers big as you level.

In the zone-to-zone progression system, all the numbers for players and NPCs start at the bottom. Once you max out your level and gear for a zone, it becomes irrelevant, and you start at the bottom again in the next zone. Lather, rinse, repeat until you reach max level.

I'm not a fan of fighting atrophy at every level, but the trade off is that ESOs content is always relevant with this system and everything is an endgame zone. We're not limited to some arbitrary handful of daily zones in ESO.

The trade off is worth it, imo, so that balances out the feeling of "getting weaker" as I level. Ergo, I'm indifferent.

W0lf_z13

you will be weaker in a sense as you rank up ... everything is scaled to cp160 ... the closer to 160 you get the less of a buff you get so the weaker you will feel

Rouven

No

Whoa! I feel good. I knew that I would.

Anytime during leveling if I start thinking "this seems to take longer" I check my schtuff, mostly upgrading my weapon seems to work fine.

Treaborne

Tapio75 wrote: »

There you go, im just interested to know how you others feel? Ever since One Tamriel, it has felt for me and especially on my NB, that the higher my level is, the weaker i am, especially that CP 160+ NB feels bad compared to same class/race build which is lower level. Testing to same NPC enemies.

After voting, pleasew tell your class/race/armor/weapon combinatyion below if nothing else.

This is how it should be since everything is 160cp now for the most part you are scaled up when lower level. And as you progress the boost that you get slowly diminishes just like the rate at which you gain CP.

You aren't getting weaker, you are getting less of a boost, Would you prefer ZOS remove the lowbie boost and make it harder for new players to find parties/groups and or do anything with others ?

The idea is to allow EVERYONE the equal opportunity to play with each other and not be left out. If you do not like playing with others maybe think about quiting MMOs and go back to playing console rpgs from the 90's

Tapio75

Yes

Problem here is, that when i feel getting weaker, i lose incentive to level up and just want to reroll a new since it feels wrong to get weaker when getting "Better"If something, it should be changed so that current level capped play is as it is, but the lower level stuff is scaled down from what it is now so that we retain the feel of getting stronger.

It does not help getting toolbox full of new shiny tools if they are no longer the best quality so to say but cheap chinese market stuff if you get the comparison.

MythicEmperor

Yes

I created an alt and at level three he could take on a heap of enemies with no skills (for science!) and just one one-handed sword. This is a problem.

IcyDeadPeople

No

I feel no, because as I level up, I get a lot more abilities, passives and can wear stronger equipment.

Tapio75

Yes

Rouven wrote: »

Whoa! I feel good. I knew that I would.

Anytime during leveling if I start thinking "this seems to take longer" I check my schtuff, mostly upgrading my weapon seems to work fine.

I actually started using level 15 armor set again after i noticed that my CP 150 gear set bonuses were only half of what the lowbie gear has. Character dies quicker but the damage is better.

STEVIL

No

i have now leveled four characters since 1T - three to lvl50-cap+ and one still into their 20s.

there is no question that the feeling of getting stronger as they advanced was present maybe even more pronounced.
it especially hit strong at final 50-cap+ when went ahead with quality gear and cp spends.

Now, to be clear, when i leveled i did the following:
i did run quests zones delves dailies etc - not grind away against varmints to speed level
i did gather drop sets and use them to supplement the crafting i did every ten levels or so (green gear) at the end of material tiers 14, 24, 34 and then at 50-cap+ for final.
i did not allocate any Cp until 50 except for 10 in regen for the node passive dbl thingy.
i did get them leveled over the period of two different xp boost holiday events so there was that added bonus.

the four characters i leveled to 50-cap+ were
khajit stamsorc
Argonian mag DK
khajit stam nb

The one still in the 20s is:
Argonian magblade

So, no, not getting this "weaker as i level" vibe at all.

maybe its more a factor for other playstyle choices - speed leveling vs playing, all cp from start instead of when you get to the champion levels, etc.

EDIT: My 8 other chars are still fine too... all 50-cap+ and fun.

Emencie

I seriously do not understand the poll options in relation to the question...

smacx250

No

If your characters are getting weaker, it probably means that you aren't allocating (or re-allocating) their attributes, skills, gear, and CPs effectively. What worked for them at low level isn't necessarily what will work best for them at high level. I play both low and high level characters, and the high level characters are substantially stronger than the low level ones (though significantly less so than pre-1T).

billp_ESO

Yes

At the beginning you are boosted, and as you level, the boost seems to gradually weaken.

At the same time, you acquire more skills and passives, which tends to counteract this gradual weakening.

However, since we are limited to a small handful of skills, it sometimes seems to make little difference as we level up. We may use almost the same 3-4 skills through the whole game.

SaRuZ

Not really for me. I can one-two shot any regular enemy with my "proc cheese," build. I mostly PvE now so I see no reason to NOT want to kill things as fast as possible. No offense to the 1337 Hrdcre MLGers that cried nerf to all good builds & sets but I prefer not 1v1ing a wasp for ten minutes. If that makes me "OP" for being conservative with my game time then oh well

SlayerSyrena

Yes/No makes no sense for the question you posed.

(This would've made more sense)

How do you feel about getting weaker as you level?

Doesn't bother me.
Slightly Annoyed.
I hate it.
Other.

Tapio75

Yes

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

I feel no, because as I level up, I get a lot more abilities, passives and can wear stronger equipment.

In my midset, when you add more passives, get more abilities and so forth you get stronger, you slay faster and more efficiently because stuff you learned with leveling, when you spent all those skillpoints to passives and skills and character takes more time to kill stuff and dies easier, the system does not feel right.

Its like before One Tamriel, i went to Cyrodil and started exploring at level 10, i sometimes struggled with some enemies but as i leveled and got more and better skills, more passives and better gear, i struggled less and the feeling was right because i was more "experienced adventurer"

Though it kinda is realistic, people usually get more feeble and fragile as they get older, maybe ZOS has tried to simuylate this.

Bandit1215

Other/indifferent

I feel yes and no when I get weaker.

Rouven

No

Tapio75 wrote: »

show previous quotes

Rouven wrote: »

Whoa! I feel good. I knew that I would.

Anytime during leveling if I start thinking "this seems to take longer" I check my schtuff, mostly upgrading my weapon seems to work fine.

I actually started using level 15 armor set again after i noticed that my CP 150 gear set bonuses were only half of what the lowbie gear has. Character dies quicker but the damage is better.

Hmmm, I can't follow you there. If my higher level character looks at a lower lvl item the set bonus is not higher vs the same item of a higher level. Especially noticable while you are leveling up in the same zone and you find the same item 1-2 levels higher.

Are we talking a display bug, were you comparing this on different characters?

HatchetHaro

Other/indifferent

Actually, this "problem" already existed before One Tamriel in regular PvE. The numbers may be different but the scaling was actually pretty much exactly the same.

What you guys are experiencing is a nocebo effect; you see the difference in numbers, thus you feel like you're less powerful as you level, and that is actually true stats-wise.

The thing is that the exact same thing has been in the game even before One Tamriel, except the numbers were just scaled lower for lower levels, hiding the whole "getting less powerful as you level up" thing.

Back then, the issue can be revealed by simply joining a group dungeon where the group leader was VR16; lower-leveled characters always had more stats and resources than the higher-leveled characters with the same builds, stats-wise.

So now the numbers are finally scaled accordingly and correctly and the long-time "issue" has been revealed, people are bugged about it for some reason, yadi yada; but here's another factor to consider: player skill. Yes, player skill. As you level up, you gain more experience with the game, and acquire newer and better gear. You get gear sets, morph and level your skills, min-max your character. Now pitch the veteran you now and the low-leveled you a few weeks/months ago against each other: taking into consideration of your own player skill back then versus now, who would win in a duel?

Tapio75

Yes

MythicEmperor wrote: »

I created an alt and at level three he could take on a heap of enemies with no skills (for science!) and just one one-handed sword. This is a problem.

Exactly, the artificial buff in the equation makes things feel wrong and unnatural..

No matter how i try to twist it, it does not feel right that i can get my lowbiue and take loads of monsters like a seasoned veteran and when i am at high level, i cant do the same thing again.

It should be so, that on low levels, you need to be careful with your aggro and learn to play at low levels so that you are not struggliung on high levels.

The current nightblade, if i use DW daggers and aggro at CP160 a group of enemies, then i accidentally take a step too far and aggro another group, i usually die when the same class/race combo with same skills and weapons, just does couple ambus->surprise attacks and spams flurry to survive.. Must be getting feeble when he is old

Elsonso

No

Picked NO so that it would go 8, 9, 10 votes.

Woo!

Not sure if NO also means "this is a terrible thing", but it is. Fortunately, CPs compensate considerable. Try to level a character without them and have some real fun in the game.

NewBlacksmurf

No

No I don't feel weaker when leveling because I'm getting stronger.

Perhaps if a player isn't updating their gear and enchants, the level discrepancy is detracting from their actual level and those who don't understand how scaling works are feeling weaker because of those penalties.

At worse you should stay in the same range until level 50 and then go up from there.

Tapio75

Yes

Rouven wrote: »

show previous quotes

Tapio75 wrote: »

Rouven wrote: »

Whoa! I feel good. I knew that I would.

Anytime during leveling if I start thinking "this seems to take longer" I check my schtuff, mostly upgrading my weapon seems to work fine.

I actually started using level 15 armor set again after i noticed that my CP 150 gear set bonuses were only half of what the lowbie gear has. Character dies quicker but the damage is better.

Hmmm, I can't follow you there. If my higher level character looks at a lower lvl item the set bonus is not higher vs the same item of a higher level. Especially noticable while you are leveling up in the same zone and you find the same item 1-2 levels higher.

Are we talking a display bug, were you comparing this on different characters?

Perphaps its different on crafted sets? I dont use dropped sets exept jewellery.

I dont remember exact numbers right now.. But example would be like Gladiators set weapon damage, on level 15 armor, crafted by CP 160+ the weapon crit bonus isaroun 550 on blue as in CP 150 same item, has aroun 1000 weapon crit bonus while armor value is considerably lower in lowbie gear, the set bonus is bigger and it cant be display bug as things tend to die better on lowbie gear, me included though

Actually the current scaling system feels like what used to be in Oblivion, at least to some extent.

There as i leveled up, bandit that try to rob you had rusty armors at beginning, when i leveled, these pesky creatures got the best elven armor, Daedric, best weapons as if they actually got rich while i leveled.

It same like when i kill some mobs at Bleakrock at level 1, the are stronger when i am more experienced. I mean what the heck? I have spent time getting more passives, better gear and enchants and all but these creatures still got the same armor and weapons, same spells and are same people but for some reason, i am not as trong as i used to be even if my numbers would indicate i am. Makes litle sense to me.

LiquidSchwartz

No

Using set gear, gear of your level, and food make a big difference

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Yes

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

No I don't feel weaker when leveling because I'm getting stronger.

Perhaps if a player isn't updating their gear and enchants, the level discrepancy is detracting from their actual level and those who don't understand how scaling works are feeling weaker because of those penalties.

At worse you should stay in the same range until level 50 and then go up from there.

But this isnt actually true. For example make a set of gear at level 5 purple it and put it on a level 5 charactet. Look at your stats.

Make the same set of gear at leve 50, purple it and put it on. A level 50 character. Look at your stats.

Your stats are lower on the 50 character.

This is why people feel like they are getting weaker.

Now i understand people feel stronger because maybe they got new stronger skills, or more passives, that makes sense. But from strictly a stat sense, you are getting weaker. Which makes some people feel like they are getting weaker. Since they are.

Rouven

No

Well I can't comment on the "lower lvl gear" being stronger as I have not experienced that.

Otherwise it really feels the same to me, especially if you think that you would continue to a higher level zone in other games. The only thing you can't do is come back to a lower level zone and mow everything down.

Well, really you can the higher you go over CP160 if you put your points into the right line for your character. I'm not there yet (only CP199) but I just respecced one character and it was already noticeable. Don't even have full CP160 set for that character.

Anyways, not trying to convince anyone, just explaining why I don't feel weaker the higher I level.