STOP punishing ppl who are kicked for no reason or remove from groups when its not their fault

Moonfish

Heres the story:
-queue up for dungeon
-after several minutes to an hour join a group
-IMMEDIATLY gets kicked (prob some bug or dc)
-have to wait 14min to queue again
-join another group
-an [snip] says he/she needs room for a guildie and kicks you
-have to wait 14min to queue again
-join another group wich is mid-dungeon, they give up and disband
-have to wai 14min to queue

[snip] YOU!!! Seriously [snip]!! Ive lost countless hours with this [snip] KNOWING IT WAS NEVER MY FAULT!
Punish ppl who disband groups, who dc, who leave the group, but not ppl who DIDNT DO ANYTHING!!!

[Edit for profanity]

Enslaved

I agree.

DRXHarbinger

Lol it makes me think of a group on BF4 called "the Bros" had a message on loading screens saying. "Get kicked? Don't rage it's just one of the Bros joining" troll face.

lolo_01b16_ESO

How should the game know if you got kicked because the rest of the team felt like kicking or if they kicked you because you tried to heal vet cos on a stamblade? In the second case I think the wait time is well deserved because you just wasted the time of 3 other players.

SteveCampsOut

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

How should the game know if you got kicked because the rest of the team felt like kicking or if they kicked you because you tried to heal vet cos on a stamblade? In the second case I think the wait time is well deserved because you just wasted the time of 3 other players.

You know what? I'm tired of ***** like you coming in with BS excuses like this to threads where the op has clearly stated the events in which the kickings occurred. Stop making stories up just to justify being a ****!

probablyafk

I've mostly quit the game because of this actually.

My problem wasn't with being kicked exactly, but that the game auto-kicks you if you DC.

For some reason when I get into dungeons I frequently get a short DC at the start. Not all the time but maybe one in five? And because of that one in five queues mean I have to wait it out before I can join another dungeon.

This wouldn't be so bad if the rest of end game wasn't so completely RNG weird. Combine these two things and, after enjoying myself for many hours leveling one of each class and an extra to boot, I have no desire to keep playing.

Only came on the forums to see if housing was decent ... guess what? No change to end game so away I go again.

failkiwib16_ESO

@lolo_01b16_ESO the point is you get a 15min penalty regardless of what you are kicked for, or if you leave the group.

Changing penalty from 15min to 1min for being kicked out of group within first 2min of joining a group could perhaps solve half of these problems.

joshsecret

1st post, go easy.
This topic is why I started an account on the forums.
I got this game about 6 weeks ago and this has been my number one complaint.

Queue up... wait 30 minutes... queue pops... "leader has disband group"... 15 min penalty
Queue up... finally get in... "you have been kicked"... 15 min penalty

Is there not a cooldown on kicks in this game? Or can people just spam it to fish for new people?
Why in the world does everyone get a 15 min penalty from the start? Is it just easier to program
rather than having a system in place that punishes those that drop out/kick people too often or too soon?

If nothing else, the penalty should only apply to the leader that immediately disbands (if this is not a bug)
and the rest should be put back into queue.

I know its taboo to compare games but in I have been kicked more in 6 weeks here than I have been in 3.5 years
in another game by a huge amount and all it does it makes me gun shy from queuing up.

Turelus

The fact there is a penalty for anything other than leaving the group yourself is pretty dumb.

I mean it's a penalty, it's meant to penalise people who did bad (leave groups early) not those who don't match up to another's standards.

sumisu1

I feel your pain OP

EvilCroc

Remind me, please, why do we have 15 min timer at all? How does it help anybody in PUG dungeons? Does it stop quitters? Or does it prevent any toxic behavior? I think it doesn't. This timer should be removed, I think.

Qbiken

These threads are the new "Nerf radiant destruction"-meta. Join a guild or deal with people kicking you.

RavenSworn

There should be a cool down on number of kicks each day and also to give a five min grace to all newly formed groups to have no time penalty when kicked or disbanded.

Jimbullbee85

Yup it's not fair. I was trying to do the random yesterday and as soon as I clicked to accept the group the leader disbanded leaving me to wait 15 mins before I could try again. There has to be a way around these instances.

Gargath

Moonfish wrote: »

-join another group
-an ass says he/she needs room for a guildie and kicks you

Honestly, I've never had this before on PC EU . But I agree that penalties should be reworked in some creative way.

Jimbullbee85

I'm in a bit of a pickle with it right now to be honest. I'm trying to do the random again and Ive got a group fine. It looks like ruins of maz is experiencing some heavy traffic (must be a pledge) so I'm entering an infinite loading screen. Do I keep dash boarding it until I finaly get in or do I quit the group and wait 15 mins? Hmmmmm

ku5h

Then dont use the Group finder tool. If your well stocked on CP, go to zone chat and LFG for dungeons. You'll probably get the group going faster then the finder will and many of your problems will be solved. Then if you get kicked, you can know it's your fault. So, dont be lazy and wait for your Group finder to get you a group, instead go and do it yourself, ofc if you have so many troubles with it...i never had any when i used it rarely.

lolo_01b16_ESO

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

How should the game know if you got kicked because the rest of the team felt like kicking or if they kicked you because you tried to heal vet cos on a stamblade? In the second case I think the wait time is well deserved because you just wasted the time of 3 other players.

You know what? I'm tired of ***** like you coming in with BS excuses like this to threads where the op has clearly stated the events in which the kickings occurred. Stop making stories up just to justify being a ****!

@SteveCampsOut Before you insult people you should at least try to get to know them. I personally pug quite a lot and when I kick someone from a group it's usually either because they crashed and don't come back or because they can't fulfill their selected role. If they are just less experienced I rarely kick them since we can still complete the dungeons, it may just take longer.

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

@lolo_01b16_ESO the point is you get a 15min penalty regardless of what you are kicked for, or if you leave the group.

Changing penalty from 15min to 1min for being kicked out of group within first 2min of joining a group could perhaps solve half of these problems.

That might help to some extend but i don't think it's perfect. I'd prefer a system where you have to select a reason for the kick with different consequences:
1. kicked for inactivity, only works if player is offline or afk for a certain time
2. kicked for wrong role, game will do some basic checks before allowing that kick, tanks can only be kicked if they don't use a taunt, healers need a skill to significantly heal other players (e.g. healing springs, bol, twilight, combat prayer, ...), dds can get kicked if they use a taunt, or don't have a single (spammable?) dps skill on their bar, penalty will only be for the role, they had selected
3. kicked for being unexpereinced, does only work if the player to be kicked is the only person in group who never completed the dungeon before, requires the group to have spend at least 10min(?) in the dungeon after engaging combat for the first time, no penalty
4. kicked for bad behavior, the first time you attempt it, you can't kick that player but he gets a bad behavior flag, when he queues again later and gets in another group he can be kicked instantly with progressing punishment (5min ->10min -> 20min -> 40min ...), flag resets after x days of not getting kicked for bad behavior

Numbers und requirements can ofc be adjusted, but that's how the system should basicly look like imo.

nick_dean14

Jimbullbee85 wrote: »

Yup it's not fair. I was trying to do the random yesterday and as soon as I clicked to accept the group the leader disbanded leaving me to wait 15 mins before I could try again. There has to be a way around these instances.

Just FYI, the situations where the group is automatically disbanded the instant it forms is a bug. It's been there for ages so I don't know if anything is being done about it, but just for peace of mind, nobody is actively trying to get rid of you in these instances.



In general I think a lot of issues would be solved by requiring a 'reason for kicking', that would only pass if every group member votes to kick AND gives the same reason for doing so.

I'd also really like to see a system where each player has a group finder record as well, showing how often they successfully finish their dungeons, the number of times they are kicked for each specific reason, how often they leave groups mid-run and the number of times they have initiated sucessful and unsuccessful votes to kick. Keep it so it can only be viewed by the player themselves, but use the information to prioritise who gets grouped up first from the queue. If you always finish your runs, rarely vote to kick anyone, and are appropriately flagged for your role, you should get quicker match ups. If you repeatedly start votes to kick 12 seconds into a dungeon and rage quit every time sombody dies you should have to suffer longer queues.

That way you'd also be able to see why you were kicked, and take steps to fix the problem. If everyone says you shouldn't be flagged as a healer because you're not running any healing skills you can either change your flagged role, or check the skill tool tips to see what skills you should be using. If you're getting frustrated at long queues, have a look at how high your 'leave group' or your 'initiate vote to kick' rating is and maybe think about why that means people might not want to be grouped with you.

It's probably way too complex a system to ever get implemented though unfortunately :-/

ookami007

Another archaic system, like guild traders, that have no business in a modern MMO. It's a system that a bureaucrat with no real experience in MMOs came up with.

Anyone is REALLY experienced know whenever you have a system that can be abused, it WILL be abused. And some people have nothing better to do with their time than just kick people so they get the penalty.

It reminds me of this one corner of the town where I grew up where a bunch of hoodlums (kids) would hang out and throw rocks at cars and then scatter if they actually hit one. No reason other than they had nothing else to do with their time.

This system is useless and worse, causes issues for good players. Destroy it. NOW!

DocFrost72

Disregard- fix doesn't help deal with elitism.

DarcyMardin

Given that there are threads on this everyday (I.e., being kicked and/or having to wait to join another group), seems as if it's time the Powers That Be made some changes to the dungeon-finder tool. Separating the easy dungeons from the harder DLC ones would help a lot, too.

Nathano

In other MMOs they tried to solve this problem by giving everyone an individual "kick timer". Which is the time you need to wait upon entering the dungeon before you are allowed to use the vote kick feature. The more you initiate a kick the longer your timer becomes. So if you decide you are going to kick people for petty reasons, like the OPs examples, then you get punished and have to wait a long time before using the feature. However everyone else who isn't trigger happy can kick on the rare occasion that it's actually needed (an abusive player or someone afk). It's not a perfect system but it's better than what we currently have.

Balamoor

My advice ....

Make friends in game find a core group to roll with. I never queue for jack, because people are terrible.

Soafee

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

How should the game know if you got kicked because the rest of the team felt like kicking or if they kicked you because you tried to heal vet cos on a stamblade? In the second case I think the wait time is well deserved because you just wasted the time of 3 other players.

It's a broken system. You can't deny that. Maybe you don't have issues with it because you don't use the feature very much. Some of us depend on the dungeon finder tool. I'm really new to the game and I use it every day. 5 out of 10 times I'm kicked from the group before the dungeon even finishes loading in. How is that my fault? What did I do? I went from one loading screen to another. So you can't say "its because I tried to heal as a stam-blade." I didn't even get the chance to try.

This feels like punishment. If you only have an hour to play and you end up spending 15 minutes waiting to queue up again when it takes 20+ minutes to even find a group and then you end up being removed from a group twice you may not even get to play a dungeon at all. Removing the timer wouldn't be game breaking.

Jeremy

joshsecret wrote: »

Is there not a cooldown on kicks in this game? Or can people just spam it to fish for new people?

Unfortunately they can spam it.

The problem is there are a lot of players who use the dungeon finder expecting a speed run full of high level CP players. So they attempt to either kick their way to that result or leap frog in and out of different groups until they find one. Tanks are especially guilty of this. I am guessing that's because they have quicker queue times. Healers may do this often as well. I am not sure because I play healer.

As an example: when I was doing City of Ash II today our first tank left almost immediately because one of the DPS wasn't that high in CP.. A few minutes later a new tank joins - we kill the portal guardians - then that tank leaves as well. I guess the fight went too slowly for him. Our next tank who joins was the same tank who had left us at the beginning. I guess he had re-queued hoping to get a different group.

He stays until after we kill the second boss - then he leaves again (I guess the fight went too slowly for him also).

The third tank we got actually stayed and we completed the dungeon. He was a newer player so I guess he didn't feel entitled to a quick and speedy run yet. We had to use the island to defeat the Fire Maw. But we defeated Ash Titan on first try and only wiped on Skoria once . Which wasn't bad considering it was both the tank's and one of the DPS's first time in that dungeon.

I guess what I am saying is be prepared for a lot of kicking and leaving - even during successful runs.

Mitoice

I usually kick people without mercy when running hard dungeos.... If you have less than 180 CP and wanna run vRoM, vCoS, vWGT.... chances are you are going to get kicked at the start of the dungeon.......

BlanketFort

I agree. The timer should be removed.
I've been on plenty of situations wherein I have had to kick a player, to make room for a guildie.

It's never been intentional, for me, to troll the queue. It's always been:
we form a group,
we wait in dungeon/doing dungeon, someone has to leave/disconnects,
we search for guildie replacement,
none can help so we queue,
Guildie can help/needs pledge and we invite,
suddenly the queue formed a group,
now we have to kick the one from the GF.

It sucks to have to go through insults, as well, for having had to kick and them then serving the 15 minute penalty.
Either remove it, shorten it, or that it only applies after 5-minutes of having been grouped.

Zvorgin

I don't like the timer, but I won't judge anyone for kicking players. There are way too many people who select roles they can't fulfill or try and run content they can't do.

Group should be able to kick and let the person requeue immediately. There shouldn't be a punishment for getting kicked, but there should be a timer for leaving the group on your own initiative.

I also would like the dungeons to have some indicator of how hard the truly are. I solo quested / PvP' to 400cp so I have no idea which dungeons are easy / hard on vet and the times I've tanked and gotten stuck on trash pulls from low dps has ruined me from wanting to try them via group finder.

LinearParadox

So lets see here....
1. Problem in game (people causing trouble in dungeons by trolling/playing non-functional builds, etc)
2. Problem goes unaddressed for an extended period of time, usually six months + (Several years in this case)
3. ZoS ignores community outcry, makes no official recognition of the issue leaving players to wonder if they know or even care.
4. ZoS finally implements a change/fix (Kick penalty)
5. Change/fix is quickly revealed to be buggy/broken/worse than the original problem (Far more false-positive penalties than deserved penalties)
6. Start again at step 3

This is their usual MO.
Why is anyone surprised?

SaRuZ

Turelus wrote: »

The fact there is a penalty for anything other than leaving the group yourself is pretty dumb.

I mean it's a penalty, it's meant to penalise people who did bad (leave groups early) not those who don't match up to another's standards.

100% Agree.

The system is bugged & abused.