Evasion

SanderBuraas

The buff, Evasion, should be removed from the game. A dodge percentage statistic is awful in any pvp game. Player vs player should revolve around skill and knowledge, not rng. Not to mention how we already have an active roll dodge.

Riot Games, for example, realized that Dodge was a bad idea in League of Legends. The statistic was removed from patches V1.0.0.124 through V1.0.0.132, from August 24, 2011 to January 17, 2012.

Evasion is part of the reason why heavy armour builds are overpowered, along with other factors, such as heal buff stacking and the removal of soft caps. Some positive changes were made in the v2.7.2 PTS patch:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

• Heavy Armor
  • Rapid Mending: This passive now increases the amount of resources your Heavy Attacks restore by 12/25% from 25/50%.

• Wrath:
  • This passive now increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by 5/10 for each stack, down from 10/20, but it now stacks up to 20 times, up from 10 times.
  • Reduced the duration of this passive’s bonus to 5 seconds from 6 seconds.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Alchemy

• Reduced the duration of Major Vitality from potions. The base duration is now 12.5 seconds, down from 47.5 seconds.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

• Scourge Harvester: This item set’s proc now provides Major Vitality instead of a generic non-buff category healing received bonus.

• Tremorscale: Reduced the damage done by this item set’s proc by approximately 10%.

However, there are still more balance changes needed – especially the removal of Evasion.

Edit: My thread is regarding the buff Evasion, with Minor and Major, but here is a notable suggestion by @brtomkin as to what the skill "Evasion" could be changed to:

brtomkin wrote: »

2. Change Evasion to work similar to Defensive Posture. The new Evasion tooltip could be:
Bolster your defenses, dodging the next single target attack against you. While slotted, the cost of roll dodging is decreased 8% and the roll dodge penalty is reduced by 8%.

Compared to the existing Defensive Posture tooltip:
Bolster your defenses, reflecting the next spell projectile cast at you back to the enemy. While slotted, the amount of damage you can block is increased by 8% and the cost of blocking is reduced by 8%.

Turelus

What would you replace it with though? It's easy to say "this is bad, get rid of it" but coming up with an acceptable and balance replacement is much harder.

SanderBuraas

Turelus wrote: »

What would you replace it with though? It's easy to say "this is bad, get rid of it" but coming up with an acceptable and balance replacement is much harder.

@Turelus

The combat and gameplay team would have no issues coming up with a replacement. I never wrote "this is bad, get rid of it", but I find it pretty self-explanatory why a dodge statistic is bad for pvp.

Merlin13KAGL

Give it the same 6 second limit as any other shield (20% chance to miss 100% of all damage is a shield, semantics aside.) or provide a magicka morph equivalent (Call it "displacement.")

It's a powerful skill and favors builds with high stamina pools ~ typically stamina builds. Same builds already getting benefit from greater ability to roll dodge, heal with Vigor, higher base mitigation, and higher weapon damage.

To quell the argument ahead of time "Magicka users can still use this skill," true, but it's also going to eat 1/4 of the already low stamina pool to do so. 1/4th of a pool required to counter CC, OP fear, and block is an expensive proposition to avoid 1/5th (< 1/6th as of this patch) incoming damage.

cpuScientist

Just give stam a shield.

Czirne

Just replace rng dodge chance with reduced cost of dodge roll while skill is active. That is all i want.

SodanTok

Not this again, why everyone complaing about evasion is bringing these words like skill or RNG when everyone is permaholding block, recasting shield every 4sec, letting proc sets do all the killing or waiting for ultimate recharge to press destro ult.
The game doesnt require skill to do stuff and if you are indeed skilled player, you arent complaining about evasion.

NeillMcAttack

cpuScientist wrote: »

Just give stam a shield.

They tried to make bone shield scale off stamina. Everyone complained that it's OP. And on the other hand we have people complain that Stam is lacking in endgame PvE because they don't have a shield.... They can't win!!

teladoy

I Also think evasion is a very bad Idea and should be removed. But what can u give to medium armor then?

My suggestion is to modify Evasion:

Shroud yourself in mist to gain Major Evasion, which increases your dodge chance by 15% for 6 seconds.
Cost 1188


Is crazy that you can press this skill and you can evade everything, from skills to normals attacks for more than 20 seconds, without have to remember to press it again. They nerf all Absor spell damage why not with evasion? is not that stamina builds have not enough to use roll?

SanderBuraas

Czirne wrote: »

Just replace rng dodge chance with reduced cost of dodge roll while skill is active. That is all i want.

@Czirne

A nice suggestion.

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

if you are indeed skilled player, you arent complaining about evasion.

@sodantokb16_ESO

You obviously don't pvp, so there's no reason for you to contribute to the discussion.

KaiDynasty

They alreayd nerfed from 20% to 15%, instead of complaining it, wait the changes on live..

ZOS_DaryaK

We've moved this thread to the PTS forum where it is more relevant.

technohic

I don't think it would be a big deal if the chance was per attack not opening up a window where it evades multiple hits for a few seconds.

Shortening the duration to make it used more defensively rather than always on would be another idea I like.

Solariken

I agree, it's a detrimental stat and makes no sense in a game with active dodge.

Here is my proposed solution:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/311097/change-the-evasion-buff-to-deflection/p1

SanderBuraas

KaiDynasty wrote: »

They alreayd nerfed from 20% to 15%, instead of complaining it, wait the changes on live..

@KaiDynasty

My point is that dodge statistics are bad design.

Qbiken

You´re talking 100% from PvP perspective.......what about PvE???

Aedaryl

Evasion is a good thing, for medium armor, it become overpowered on a heavy or light armor, armor skills should be available with 5 armor pieces I think

Bakkagami

I agree with Aedaryl. The best thing ZOS can do imo is to make armor line skills require 5 pieces of said weight. It'll get rid of tanks running shuffle while also giving a bit more definition to tank/caster/rogue archetypes.

Yuke

Then change heavy armor buff to something usefull...everyone and their mothers already have an major resist buff in class skill line.

Its clearly underperforming in comparison to shuffle and harness magicka.

SodanTok

Smepic wrote: »

Czirne wrote: »

Just replace rng dodge chance with reduced cost of dodge roll while skill is active. That is all i want.

@Czirne

A nice suggestion.

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

if you are indeed skilled player, you arent complaining about evasion.

@sodantokb16_ESO

You obviously don't pvp, so there's no reason for you to contribute to the discussion.

Lol, i barely do anything else. You probably dont, or just have no idea what to do. Try shuffling out of destro ult or any aoe spell or zerg and tell me how OP that is again. If you cant kill medium armor user its probably because he dodges a lot (using dodge roll) and you lack proper catch/aoe, if you cant kill heavy armor user its probably because, lol, he takes barely any damage and that "op" evasion is just sweet bonus.

technohic wrote: »

I don't think it would be a big deal if the chance was per attack not opening up a window where it evades multiple hits for a few seconds.

Shortening the duration to make it used more defensively rather than always on would be another idea I like.

Dont believe everything you read on internet. There is barely any dodge window as they use to say and its definitely not few seconds lol. Not even real dodge roll have few seconds.

NeillMcAttack

Bakkagami wrote: »

I agree with Aedaryl. The best thing ZOS can do imo is to make armor line skills require 5 pieces of said weight. It'll get rid of tanks running shuffle while also giving a bit more definition to tank/caster/rogue archetypes.

What about the heavy armor Magicka tanks that rely on harness Magicka??

oibam

Evasion should work only with medium armor, like 2% dodge chance for each medium armor part worn. Full heavy armor with full dodge buff is just wtf???

Maikon

Smepic wrote: »

The buff, Evasion, should be removed from the game. A dodge percentage statistic is awful in any pvp game. Player vs player should revolve around skill and knowledge, not rng. Not to mention how we already have an active roll dodge.

Riot Games, for example, realized that Dodge was a bad idea in League of Legends. The statistic was removed from patches V1.0.0.124 through V1.0.0.132, from August 24, 2011 to January 17, 2012.

Evasion is part of the reason why heavy armour builds are overpowered, along with other factors, such as heal buff stacking and the removal of soft caps. Some positive changes were made in the v2.7.2 PTS patch:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

• Heavy Armor
  • Rapid Mending: This passive now increases the amount of resources your Heavy Attacks restore by 12/25% from 25/50%.

• Wrath:
  • This passive now increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by 5/10 for each stack, down from 10/20, but it now stacks up to 20 times, up from 10 times.
  • Reduced the duration of this passive’s bonus to 5 seconds from 6 seconds.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Alchemy

• Reduced the duration of Major Vitality from potions. The base duration is now 12.5 seconds, down from 47.5 seconds.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

• Scourge Harvester: This item set’s proc now provides Major Vitality instead of a generic non-buff category healing received bonus.

• Tremorscale: Reduced the damage done by this item set’s proc by approximately 10%.

However, there are still more balance changes needed – especially the removal of Evasion.

LOL, and the first thing you thought of was evasion? There will be no skill as long as proc sets are available.

Cinbri

With current exploits it hard to realize if it just so lucky rng helped your enemy to "dodge" or he abusing exploit.

Qbiken

Applying the need to have 5 piece to use medium armor is just a "pvp-crying" solution. This change would be the end for PvE Tava tanks.

WillhelmBlack

100% agree. Here are some of my suggestions...

Activating the skill makes you dissappear for 1 second evading all projectiles and instant cast abilities.

Activating the skill allows you to slip away from Beam type spells. Whilst slotted there is no increased penalty for consecutive dodge rolls.

Activating the skill grants minor useful protection buffs i.e mending, protection. Other morph could grant minor damage buffs as well as a speed buff.

Of course all these ideas would still include the removal of snares. I'm sure I'll come up with more.

SanderBuraas

Maikon wrote: »

Smepic wrote: »

The buff, Evasion, should be removed from the game. A dodge percentage statistic is awful in any pvp game. Player vs player should revolve around skill and knowledge, not rng. Not to mention how we already have an active roll dodge.

Riot Games, for example, realized that Dodge was a bad idea in League of Legends. The statistic was removed from patches V1.0.0.124 through V1.0.0.132, from August 24, 2011 to January 17, 2012.

Evasion is part of the reason why heavy armour builds are overpowered, along with other factors, such as heal buff stacking and the removal of soft caps. Some positive changes were made in the v2.7.2 PTS patch:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

• Heavy Armor
  • Rapid Mending: This passive now increases the amount of resources your Heavy Attacks restore by 12/25% from 25/50%.

• Wrath:
  • This passive now increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by 5/10 for each stack, down from 10/20, but it now stacks up to 20 times, up from 10 times.
  • Reduced the duration of this passive’s bonus to 5 seconds from 6 seconds.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Alchemy

• Reduced the duration of Major Vitality from potions. The base duration is now 12.5 seconds, down from 47.5 seconds.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

• Scourge Harvester: This item set’s proc now provides Major Vitality instead of a generic non-buff category healing received bonus.

• Tremorscale: Reduced the damage done by this item set’s proc by approximately 10%.

However, there are still more balance changes needed – especially the removal of Evasion.

LOL, and the first thing you thought of was evasion? There will be no skill as long as proc sets are available.

@Maikon

Could you at least do a little research? I have written threads about proc sets, damage shields and roll dodge, as well as channeled beams.

neutronenstern

shields got nerfed from 30 secs to 6 secs while you can still have evasion for 20 seconds, even more when in full medium with a skill that costs nearly nothing.

Redn3ck

Aedaryl wrote: »

Evasion is a good thing, for medium armor, it become overpowered on a heavy or light armor, armor skills should be available with 5 armor pieces I think

I think the armor skills should be able to only be used while wearing at least 1 piece of the armor type. So in theory a 5/1/1 you be able to use all three,but a 7 heavy wouldn't be able to use the light or medium.

That being said, I also think the skills should be modified heavily based on how many of the respective weight you are wearing. The more of each you wear, the stronger the ability...

******
For example:
Annulment (light armor)
Gain a damage shield that absorbs [x] damage over 6 seconds.
Each piece of Light armor increases the amount of damage that can be absorbed by (insert LARGE percentage here...I'm talking like 15-20% per piece)
******

For balancing I'm going on the theory that a full 7 piece of the same weight would be SLIGHTLY STRONGER then what a full 7 is now.

As far an Evasion buff...I agree 100% with the guy would suggested evasion becomes a significant reduction in roll dodge cost, or even possibly reduces the cooldown for the roll dodge cost increase?

idk

Why would we go to LoL for ideas? Fitting name. LoL

Czirne

Anyway, i suggested this not so long ago.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/311107/armor-skills#latest

It could help with heavy armor meta