Review and Re-pricing of Large Houses

riberion

willlienellson wrote: »

The problem I have with these little tweaks (which is fine) is they rely too much on your subjective personal preferences.
Of course, the original prices were almost certainly a product of the same thing.

So..Meh. Increase a few 10%. Drop a few 10%. Whatever. People are going to disagree forever on which are best homes and which are the best deals.

If we had 10 different people make 10 different threads trying to "assess" the value of these properties they would all be different. So, what makes you qualified to assess these homes so specifically?

I'm much more inclined to listen to argument that says the entire system is too expensive or too cheap or whatever...than one person that wants to play imaginary county tax assessor of Tamriel.

THIS.

It's so very subjective which houses you think are worth more or less. Also, regardless of the "space" in each home, they can still only hold a certain number of items, which is the same for each large home.

Since there is no real estate market, there is no way to objectively determine value. It's always going to be personal preference.

Elder_III

Thank you for posting this. I have had it in mind to do something like this myself but you have saved me the trouble. (RSD and arthritis make typing lengthier documents quite painful for me). While I don't agree 100%, I do agree with the vast majority of your points. The pricing is aggravating since, even with personal preference for architectural style laid aside, the VPGC - Value Per Gold Coin - is very inconsistent.

One note I will make is that 2 homes which I quite like, but feel are not a good value at the current price, are the Nord and Dunmer houses. The Nord Home could really use a little more space. I too feel that a nice basement addition would be a good way to bring that about... even if it bumped up the price a little. Whereas the Dunmer Home is one of the smallest and lacks any view. Something that could be done very easily would be to build a walkway along the top of the wall to the left of the gate. This could double as a patio type sitting area with a view of the waterfall and city as well as a stable area underneath it. Someday when I get around to buying homes that aren't tops on my list I will do this exact thing myself with the in game editing tools.

MLGProPlayer

old_mufasa wrote: »

while the one in reapers march has a ton visual effects for its out side areas and is close to one of the best trading hubs in the game...

It doesn't actually have any visual effects in the yard. It's literally just a flat rectangular field of sand. It doesn't have any rocks. It doesn't wrap around the house. It doesn't give you a view of the surrounding area. It doesn't have any natural features (like a waterfall, stream, beach, etc.). It's literally just a small house on a small lot. It's also not close to Rawl'kha at all (it's by Dune, a useless city on the easternmost part of the map).

It's definitely puzzling how they determined the value for that house.

danno8

Generally disagree on the aesthetics of Mathiisen Manor as well.

Does not feel like a house or "home" to me. More like a series of hallways. Like a hospital or something. Come in and go to the main desk, then they direct you to the left wing or right wing, first floor or second floor.

I agree with just about everything else though.

edit: I see now that you are basing your amounts only on total space. So that would explain it.

danno8

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

old_mufasa wrote: »

while the one in reapers march has a ton visual effects for its out side areas and is close to one of the best trading hubs in the game...

It doesn't actually have any visual effects in the yard. It's literally just a flat rectangular field of sand. It doesn't have any rocks. It doesn't wrap around the house. It doesn't give you a view of the surrounding area. It doesn't have any natural features (like a waterfall, stream, beach, etc.). It's literally just a small house on a small lot. It's also not close to Rawl'kha at all (it's by Dune, a useless city on the easternmost part of the map).

It's definitely puzzling how they determined the value for that house.

I think he was referring to the Reapers March northern house. Silent Springs Demesne?

Cootie

Elder_III wrote: »

Thank you for posting this. I have had it in mind to do something like this myself but you have saved me the trouble. (RSD and arthritis make typing lengthier documents quite painful for me). While I don't agree 100%, I do agree with the vast majority of your points. The pricing is aggravating since, even with personal preference for architectural style laid aside, the VPGC - Value Per Gold Coin - is very inconsistent.

One note I will make is that 2 homes which I quite like, but feel are not a good value at the current price, are the Nord and Dunmer houses. The Nord Home could really use a little more space. I too feel that a nice basement addition would be a good way to bring that about... even if it bumped up the price a little. Whereas the Dunmer Home is one of the smallest and lacks any view. Something that could be done very easily would be to build a walkway along the top of the wall to the left of the gate. This could double as a patio type sitting area with a view of the waterfall and city as well as a stable area underneath it. Someday when I get around to buying homes that aren't tops on my list I will do this exact thing myself with the in game editing tools.

I like that- VPGC is a great way to sumarize it. Obviously, as some people pointed out, value IS a bit subjective but there are things that aren't opinion based that can be compared- useable space, layout, location to ammenities, etc. You can't put a VPGC on things that come down to personal preference but you certainly can on other aspects... and when you do, it does sorta become obvious that not all "large homes" are deserving of the "large home prices".

I am curious to see if large homes are going to have a flat crown cost or if their crown cost will reflect their gold cost.

old_mufasa

danno8 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

old_mufasa wrote: »

while the one in reapers march has a ton visual effects for its out side areas and is close to one of the best trading hubs in the game...

It doesn't actually have any visual effects in the yard. It's literally just a flat rectangular field of sand. It doesn't have any rocks. It doesn't wrap around the house. It doesn't give you a view of the surrounding area. It doesn't have any natural features (like a waterfall, stream, beach, etc.). It's literally just a small house on a small lot. It's also not close to Rawl'kha at all (it's by Dune, a useless city on the easternmost part of the map).

It's definitely puzzling how they determined the value for that house.

I think he was referring to the Reapers March northern house. Silent Springs Demesne?

I was.. but the one near Dune is not that far from the trade hub if you look on the map...

But point is you are in a zone chat that has some of the best trade in the game..

Also if someone is using square footage as the only test of value.. then why is Sleek Creek House the most expensive medium house in the game but has mediocre square footage.. ill tell you, a stream/water area and right on top of the best trade hub as well...

So yes its subjective... but saying that square footage should be the only litmus test is also subjective.. as for many, myself included don't care about the square footage.. but care more for the overall appeal of the property based on looks, out door size and map location... that's why I think I'll end up getting the Sleek Creek House first mainly do to it location.. though Silent Springs Demesne is also on my list do the way the out side is.

Only thing I'm debating here is upping the price on a house that really isn't all that great other then size.

Shadowshire

SamSam wrote: »

INTRODUCTION

As this is quite a large post I will put a TL;DR down the bottom, though I urge you to read the full post if you want a full explanation of my thinking and the basis for decisions such as ranking.

My main reason for putting this together is because, while the devs might have had good reasons for why they priced the large homes as they did, there are some definite inconsistencies in the pricing scheme.

Call me cynical, but I would assume that the pricing in GP for these "Notable Houses" is probably related to the pricing in Crowns, and that the pricing in Crowns has been evaluated by ZOS marketing personnel. The development team probably had little or nothing to do with that matter.

SamSam wrote: »

1. Mathiisen Manor: Price increase. 1,025,000 → 1,320,000

This home is the crown jewel of the large houses. The exterior is massive, and more importantly, relatively flat giving you a huge amount of room to work with for outdoor furnishing, crafting spaces, dueling rings and more. The atmosphere is peaceful and the small pool out back is serene and private. ....

....

Mathiisen Manor is indeed the "crown jewel", purely because of its aesthetics. The manor and its grounds, in combination, are undoubtedly the most beautiful of all the Notable Houses -- Gornir Estate aside. The atmosphere is certainly peaceful, and the huge elevated space at the rear of the grounds is "serene and private" (the reflecting pool is rather large and not "small"). That backyard alone is at least half of the total exterior grounds of the estate. But the only flat areas there are the paved margins around the pool. They are excellent for gathering a large group for a meeting or for a house party. They aren't large enough to be useful for much other than some tables, benches, chairs, light fixtures, along with a pet or two and maybe a servant.

Which is to say, very few of the relatively flat spaces about the grounds can be used for "... crafting spaces, dueling rings, and more" without distorting and/or seriously spoiling the overall aesthetics. The player should also be very judicious in their choice of outdoor furnishings. I suppose that crafting stations can be located indoors, within the manor. But most players probably would not want to stable mounts or to engage in duels inside.

SamSam wrote: »

With that said, the true value of this house is in it's unmatched interior. Where some houses further down the list can compete based purely on available space, no other large house has the same amount of space so well set out. The entrance hallway is wide enough that a clever owner could host a small bazaar with that space alone, and the way the house is roomed off makes it easy to designate spaces to bedrooms, kitchens, etc, while still having a wealth of space left over. If the space inside the house weren't enough, two large balconies afford room for seating and entertainment with a beautiful view of the city below.

Since I did not have enough opportunity to explore the PTS release in depth, I don't have experience with the Housing Editor other than to take a cursory look at the UI. It seemed to me to be rather poorly organized, and to serve mainly as a UI for buying furnishings from the Crown Store.

So, I don't know how much of the "flat space", whether outdoor or indoor, in many of these Homesteads can actually be used. In the forum discussions, there are numerous comments and complaints about the difficulty of placing furnishings where the player chooses. Placing furnishings against walls, or within spaces, which are curved horizontally and/or vertically seems to be especially challenging, if not impossible.

Last, but not least, having a lot of usable space will not be significant if the PTS furnishing item caps which have been reported for various Homestead sizes are not considerably increased. Perhaps we should expect ZOS to eventually increase those capacities, but also expect ZOS to sell it as they do bank and bag storage space.

From what I have read, I have come to believe that crafting anything for housing is unlikely to be a worthwhile way to spend time and effort playing the game. ZOS has evidently designed that endeavor to be a grind, and whether the player can do well depends as much upon luck as it does skill. In my humble opinion, ZOS does not want any significant competition with the Crown Store. Be that as it may, frankly, I don't plan to spend a lot of Crowns when there is no particular useful benefit or significance in playing the game with what I buy.

MLGProPlayer

old_mufasa wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

old_mufasa wrote: »

while the one in reapers march has a ton visual effects for its out side areas and is close to one of the best trading hubs in the game...

It doesn't actually have any visual effects in the yard. It's literally just a flat rectangular field of sand. It doesn't have any rocks. It doesn't wrap around the house. It doesn't give you a view of the surrounding area. It doesn't have any natural features (like a waterfall, stream, beach, etc.). It's literally just a small house on a small lot. It's also not close to Rawl'kha at all (it's by Dune, a useless city on the easternmost part of the map).

It's definitely puzzling how they determined the value for that house.

I think he was referring to the Reapers March northern house. Silent Springs Demesne?

I was.. but the one near Dune is not that far from the trade hub if you look on the map...

But point is you are in a zone chat that has some of the best trade in the game..

Also if someone is using square footage as the only test of value.. then why is Sleek Creek House the most expensive medium house in the game but has mediocre square footage.. ill tell you, a stream/water area and right on top of the best trade hub as well...

So yes its subjective... but saying that square footage should be the only litmus test is also subjective.. as for many, myself included don't care about the square footage.. but care more for the overall appeal of the property based on looks, out door size and map location... that's why I think I'll end up getting the Sleek Creek House first mainly do to it location.. though Silent Springs Demesne is also on my list do the way the out side is.

Only thing I'm debating here is upping the price on a house that really isn't all that great other then size.

You can't access zone chat from your house. It's a separate instance.

And no, Dune is not close to Rawl'kha at all, unless you consider everything in the same zone to be "close".

old_mufasa

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

old_mufasa wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

old_mufasa wrote: »

while the one in reapers march has a ton visual effects for its out side areas and is close to one of the best trading hubs in the game...

It doesn't actually have any visual effects in the yard. It's literally just a flat rectangular field of sand. It doesn't have any rocks. It doesn't wrap around the house. It doesn't give you a view of the surrounding area. It doesn't have any natural features (like a waterfall, stream, beach, etc.). It's literally just a small house on a small lot. It's also not close to Rawl'kha at all (it's by Dune, a useless city on the easternmost part of the map).

It's definitely puzzling how they determined the value for that house.

I think he was referring to the Reapers March northern house. Silent Springs Demesne?

I was.. but the one near Dune is not that far from the trade hub if you look on the map...

But point is you are in a zone chat that has some of the best trade in the game..

Also if someone is using square footage as the only test of value.. then why is Sleek Creek House the most expensive medium house in the game but has mediocre square footage.. ill tell you, a stream/water area and right on top of the best trade hub as well...

So yes its subjective... but saying that square footage should be the only litmus test is also subjective.. as for many, myself included don't care about the square footage.. but care more for the overall appeal of the property based on looks, out door size and map location... that's why I think I'll end up getting the Sleek Creek House first mainly do to it location.. though Silent Springs Demesne is also on my list do the way the out side is.

Only thing I'm debating here is upping the price on a house that really isn't all that great other then size.

You can't access zone chat from your house. It's a separate instance.

And no, Dune is not close to Rawl'kha at all, unless you consider everything in the same zone to be "close".

Umm.. yes the house is located in a main trade zone chat area.. didn't say in your house.. I said located in the zone..

And compared to Mathiisen Manor it is indeed very close.. as that home is not even in a main trade zone...

Also you totally ignored the point that Sleek Creek House is one of the smaller medium homes but by far the most expensive... and that's do to location and aesthetics of the property and that you can't use just square footage as the only means to determine cost.

STEVIL

@SamSam

Thanks for this. This doc was one of my starting points for looking over the houses and developing a plan. It was a significant starting point for my analysis, part of my decision making process and helped me reach a "if things stay as they are now" plan of attack for what i do with regards to housing.

Obviously changes will come but all in all i have a better understanding jow than before.

baratron

Gornir Estate was by far the most disappointing house for me. I knew it was Bosmer style, I knew it would be interconnecting "tree balls" - but only three balls? Really? I expected at least five. I also expected a decent amount of landscaping if you bought the Crown furnished version of the house, but in fact so few plants were added that I barely noticed the difference.

Forsaken Stronghold is by far my favourite of the large houses and manors. You are quite correct that it would make a good Guildhall. Indeed, watch the following videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvAIuZdefPg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzSFVY0nDWc

Leogon

The price tags seem to depend on whether or not the house is close to a town with a bank, traders, etc. They also seem to depend on the size of the house/land and whether or not there's an accessible tower. In other words, 1,025,000g for the Mathiisen Manor is a good price tag.

Kallipsoe

SamSam wrote: »

~Review and Re-Pricing of Large Houses~


5. Mistveil Manor: No change in price. 1,020,000 → 1,020,000

This house was initially the most disappointing of the lot to me, based purely on my initial hopes for a nord home. Compared to the medium nord home, which is nearly a fourth of the price and has the exact same internal building, it's easy to be found wanting after seeing what your 760k is worth. The yard is among the smallest and, while you do get some extra space from the patio/barn/balcony, these are restricted by their dimensions and provide no more room under cover. Nevertheless, there is still a great deal of space on the inside of this home and for someone seeking a cozy family home Mistveil Manor has that classic nordic vibe that will keep your heart warm even in the cold winters.

While I have left the price the same, I do not believe this house should remain as is. In order to bring something unique to the table and earn its price tag I believe a small basement/cellar room should be added, accessible by a trap door either in the barn or the main house. Even if the room is quite small, the addition of more internal space breaks the easy comparison to the medium house and the trap door gives this home something unique that I'm sure many housing fans were hoping to see on display in at least one home.

I to agree that this is the most disappointing large home in the game. I do not believe that it should go for over 1 million. Compared to the other large homes this is the worst of the lot.

My main is an Orc so I will purchase the Stronghold and even then I have requested small improvements to the Stronghold.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/315851/forsaken-stronghold-improvments#latest

However, I believe there is much needed improvements to bring the Mistveil Manor up to par. I hate the fact that both Grymharth's Woe and the Mistveil Manor have the same interior design "its the same building". I wish they would use the house from the Fighters Guild in Riften instead. Then I would consider purchasing the Mistveil Manor.

My request to ZOS is to remove the current building and place the fighters guild building in its place.

NewBlacksmurf

Nice detail and logic.

Cause I'm poor I'd say less is best for all but the ranges I do agree with in terms of a tier

david19979

Kallipsoe wrote: »

However, I believe there is much needed improvements to bring the Mistveil Manor up to par. I hate the fact that both Grymharth's Woe and the Mistveil Manor have the same interior design "its the same building". I wish they would use the house from the Fighters Guild in Riften instead. Then I would consider purchasing the Mistveil Manor.

My request to ZOS is to remove the current building and place the fighters guild building in its place.

Yeah, Mistveil Manor is the most disappointing house for me, I agree with everythig you wrote.
The thane's house in Nimalten would be a good pick too, it has a cozy hall in the back of the building where the fireplace is.
This with a yard the size of the one in the Forsaken Stronghold would be a dream deal.

dvcod

Maybe it has been mentioned before...but when I look at a home in "real Life"...yes the layout is very important but more important to me than anything is where it is located. While some of the homes are nice...where they are located does not appeal to me at all. That is why I like Mistveil Manor. I love the Rift...and love how near it is to Riften. I also like that it will not cost me as much to decorate is as some of the larger homes. Just my thoughts. I guess that is why there is chocolate and vanilla...everyone has different tastes and thoughts.

BlazingDynamo

There's really a house called Stay Moist mansion? Lol

Danikat

dvcod wrote: »

Maybe it has been mentioned before...but when I look at a home in "real Life"...yes the layout is very important but more important to me than anything is where it is located. While some of the homes are nice...where they are located does not appeal to me at all. That is why I like Mistveil Manor. I love the Rift...and love how near it is to Riften. I also like that it will not cost me as much to decorate is as some of the larger homes. Just my thoughts. I guess that is why there is chocolate and vanilla...everyone has different tastes and thoughts.

True, but in real life that's because the location of your house will almost certainly determine a number of other aspects about your life - you have to have a job in the local area (or work from home), your kids have to go to a local school, you have to buy your food and other supplies in the nearest town/s, if you go out for the day it has to be somewhere relatively close to your house. So the right location will have a much bigger impact on your life than the layout, or aesthetics, of your house.

But that's because in real-life we don't have wayshrines.

Most of the houses which aren't in or adjacent to cities are right next to wayshrines. I could be living in Bouldertree Refuge in the middle of nowhere on the other side of the world and in the time it'd take you to exit Mistveil Manor and ride into the centre of Riften I could exit my house and use the wayshrine to get to the centre of Riften. Or Daggerfall or any other city in the world.

So location again is mostly aesthetic - do you like the look of the map the house is in. In practical terms it just comes down to whether you want a town right outside your door or are willing to use a wayshrine, and if you're willing to compromise space or pay more as most of the houses in towns are smaller and/or more expensive.

(Although in some cases it's possible to get all 3 - for example humblemud is one of the cheapest small houses, but is as big or bigger than some of the most expensive small houses if you count the yard, and it's in Dhalmora which is small but has a bank, crafting stations, and all the other stuff found in most major cities.)

Tannus15

old_mufasa wrote: »

Danikat wrote: »

I think you're really over estimating how popular Mathiisden Manor will be. Whilst it looks pretty at first glance as other people have said the grounds are really bland (and being flat actually counts against it for some people), it's got potential in the sense that it's a blank slate but it would need a lot of decorating to make it look good and that eats into your item limit.

The inside has been frustrating people too because you can't put furniture flat against the wall so a lot of stuff is going to have to be pushed in towards the middle of the room, which makes it look more cramped and just generally creates an odd layout. I've also seen quite a few complaints about the layout.

Likewise a lot of people really like Strident Springs because its one of the few houses divided into rooms. I also find it odd that you praise Mathiisden for having a flat, bland exterior and then criticise Strident Springs for the same thing.

I'm not saying you're wrong exactly, just that it's all down to personal preference. One person's "must have" asthetics are another persons negatives so I don't think it's possible to accurately price the houses based on what one person likes.

(Also for future reference making the entire post centered makes it unnecessarily hard to read. Because the start point of each line doesn't match it's harder to track across and find your place, especially for people who have a hard time reading a screen or have a condition like dyslexia. It's fine for titles but not for blocks of text, except maybe poetry.)

I agree with this.. I don't think Mathiisden Manor is all the great.. maybe if it was on a sea side cliff or had water falls coming off the cliffs.. to fish that swim in the now stagnate pound something to break the blandness of the house... I for sure don't see it as deserving the highest cost for sure.

to me it's all going to come down to if i can manage to build some stairs to the wall on the left side which appears to have a tower and parapet...

MLGProPlayer

david19979 wrote: »

Kallipsoe wrote: »

However, I believe there is much needed improvements to bring the Mistveil Manor up to par. I hate the fact that both Grymharth's Woe and the Mistveil Manor have the same interior design "its the same building". I wish they would use the house from the Fighters Guild in Riften instead. Then I would consider purchasing the Mistveil Manor.

My request to ZOS is to remove the current building and place the fighters guild building in its place.

Yeah, Mistveil Manor is the most disappointing house for me, I agree with everythig you wrote.
The thane's house in Nimalten would be a good pick too, it has a cozy hall in the back of the building where the fireplace is.
This with a yard the size of the one in the Forsaken Stronghold would be a dream deal.

They could have just given Mistveil a basement. Easy solution. Sure it would require a little bit of work (since that asset doesn't have a basement), but it couldn't have been that hard.

Serjustin19

david19979 wrote: »

Kallipsoe wrote: »

However, I believe there is much needed improvements to bring the Mistveil Manor up to par. I hate the fact that both Grymharth's Woe and the Mistveil Manor have the same interior design "its the same building". I wish they would use the house from the Fighters Guild in Riften instead. Then I would consider purchasing the Mistveil Manor.

My request to ZOS is to remove the current building and place the fighters guild building in its place.

Yeah, Mistveil Manor is the most disappointing house for me, I agree with everythig you wrote.
The thane's house in Nimalten would be a good pick too, it has a cozy hall in the back of the building where the fireplace is.
This with a yard the size of the one in the Forsaken Stronghold would be a dream deal.

To be honest. Mistveil Manor. Reminds me of this Ski Lodge. I went to. Long ago, during a School Ski event. Maybe it's because of this Ski Lodge. Which I love to go. During this School Ski event I went to.

That Mistveil Manor. Feels comfortable to me. Honestly. Feels roomy as well. Least to me. In a ways. In truth. Mistveil Manor. Does show resemblance of this Ski Lodge I went to. During School Ski event long ago.