Are templars praying to anyone specific in the lore?

DragonBound

Emothic wrote: »

Some of you said that the Divines, the 8 gods, grants mortals magical powers. This is incorrect. Magic comes from another plain of exsistance. A plane that is outside of both the Mortal plain of Mundas, and the immortal plain of Oblivion. I can't remember what this third plain is called, but it is where magic comes from.

Now you may ask: Well then how do mortals get magical abilities from a place outside of both Mundas and Oblivion? Well that's quite simple, it comes from the Sun. Okay yes it's not that simple. You see the Sun and the stars are not what we think they are. This is what the mortal mind see's as it is incappable of doing so. In a sense when you go to a relm of oblivion everything you see is not real. It is your mind trying to make sense of everything around it. The same thing is happening here. You see the sun and stars are holes in the mortal plain that "bypasses" oblivion to reach this third plain. These holes were crated by the immortal beings that feld during the creation of Mundus and the planet Nirn. For if they stayed they would lose all of their powers. This is where magic comes from.

But you cannot know where they are getting the magic for sure, deadra are known to have certain abilities and they get it from somewhere and the divines seem to represent some of these kinds of abilities as well, if it does not come from them then it is atleast guided by them, my character would not need to pray if they simply came out of the sun.

DragonBound

LMar wrote: »

The magic was adapted by sects worshipping Stendarr and taught to other people even if they don't worship any god, purely to help other people.

Read some more of this here : the Sect of Harmonious Masters have dedicated ourselves to adapting the magic of Stendarr's Light into spells of healing that can be employed by all the mortal races, not even excepting the beast peoples. The restorative virtues of our rituals and ceremonies are equally efficacious for every race. They can be cast by individuals of every blood, no matter how degraded, so long as they have the will and the wisdom to learn how to use them.

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Rituals_of_the_Harmonious_Masters

and

Over time, even as evil's many Abominations found new ways to afflict Tamriel's mortals with destruction and death, the Priests and Resolutes of Stendarr have adapted Stendarr's glowing gift to many purposes, whether to smite, to defend, or to heal.
For offensive means, Stendarr's gift most often manifests as a piercing beam of light, resembling a spear of purifying sunlight and oft referred to in those terms.
As a form of armor, Stendarr's gift may take the form of a diffuse aura that surrounds the righteous, mitigating the attacks of the abominable, or it may focus into an almost-palpable shield to ward off a specific threat.
Worshipers who eschew all forms of violence, such as the Harmonious Masters of Lillandril, have turned Stendarr's glowing gift into a tool for healing, and then freely spread their knowledge of cleansing and healing rituals, even to Stendarr's more militant adherents. For even in the hands of a warrior, how can the curing of ills be an ill thing?

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Aura_of_the_Righteous

So while it might have started with Stendarr, the knowledge is now freely spread to all. A Templar doesn't need to follow Stendarr

Very interesting but I still find it hard to believe that they pray to the actual energy itself when they do not even acknowledge it as a being. If this really was the case then why cant they simply cast spells like a sorc?

MasterSpatula

While "Aedric Spear" would imply the Eight Divines, I tend to consider my Dunmer Templar a follower of the Tribunal Temple. Of course, since the Tribunal's powers are borrowed stolen from Lorkhan, in a sense he still follows the Aedra.

As for my Argonian Templar, I would argue that the Hist are et'Ada, which makes them approximately Aedra. But really, I just consider him a follower of the Eight. After all, in Oblivion, we saw plenty of Argonians at the temples of the Nine.

Hand_Bacon

Wrobel

Kuroinu

Stendarr a.k.a Beam Jesus.

LMar

CosmicSoul wrote: »

Very interesting but I still find it hard to believe that they pray to the actual energy itself when they do not even acknowledge it as a being. If this really was the case then why cant they simply cast spells like a sorc?

They don't pray to anything really, they just use the magic like normal spells. They learned the spells and harness the magicka which comes from Aetherius. The texts I linked specifically said that these are spells which can be taught to anyone. The actions you see the templars doing are just a way of focusing their will to the spell etc.

Also don't confuse gameplay with lore :P

DragonBound

LMar wrote: »

CosmicSoul wrote: »

Very interesting but I still find it hard to believe that they pray to the actual energy itself when they do not even acknowledge it as a being. If this really was the case then why cant they simply cast spells like a sorc?

They don't pray to anything really, they just use the magic like normal spells. They learned the spells and harness the magicka which comes from Aetherius. The texts I linked specifically said that these are spells which can be taught to anyone. The actions you see the templars doing are just a way of focusing their will to the spell etc.

Also don't confuse gameplay with lore :P

So it is symbolic? They are just copying the rituals much like spell casting?

LMar

I would say it is one way to focus their will into casting the spells they learned. And if the people who taught them showed them with praying movements they could just have copied that.. So yes much like spell casting. It is spell casting.

Remember they don't get their powers from the gods like D&D.

UppGRAYxDD

Templars are praying to the gods old and new for no more nerfs and a massive buff to stamplars .....

EldritchPenguin

I'm not all that concerned about the specific lore of the Templars. We do have some freedom. I'm RPing my Templar as a Tribunal-worshipping fanatic.

starkerealm

CosmicSoul wrote: »

LMar wrote: »

CosmicSoul wrote: »

Very interesting but I still find it hard to believe that they pray to the actual energy itself when they do not even acknowledge it as a being. If this really was the case then why cant they simply cast spells like a sorc?

They don't pray to anything really, they just use the magic like normal spells. They learned the spells and harness the magicka which comes from Aetherius. The texts I linked specifically said that these are spells which can be taught to anyone. The actions you see the templars doing are just a way of focusing their will to the spell etc.

Also don't confuse gameplay with lore :P

So it is symbolic? They are just copying the rituals much like spell casting?

It's not symbolic. I mean, if they're praying to a specific god, that's an important part of the character, but it doesn't affect their build.

The Elder Scrolls doesn't have the same divine magic/arcane magic system you get in something like D&D or Dark Souls. ESO's a little weird, because it has a more Balkanized form of magic, than most series veterans are familiar with. Normally, magic is delineated into schools, and anyone can cast spells for a school they're familiar with. But, that's kind of an abstract concept in setting. A character simply needs to understand the fundamental principles of the spells they cast, and an understanding of magicka that appears to be available to anyone who wishes to use it. With similar spells having similar fundamental concepts that need to be grasped.

That said, characters can be empowered by other beings, making them a chosen of that being. In the single player games we've had player characters who were Chosen of Azura, and a Chosen of Talos (or Akatosh, it's not entirely clear). There's also a Chosen of Akatosh in ESO, that most players who've run through the DLC should be instantly familiar with. That's how he gets his timestop ability. And it's very likely The Vestige is a Chosen of Meridia. (Though, Meridia has two other Chosen in ESO as NPCs.)

Vampirism, Lycanthropy, and the Dragonborn are similar concepts, though not completely analogous. Again, the character has been empowered by a daedric or aedric being.

But, the ability to actually cast spells? That's not something that's given to them from an outside force (usually). So a Templar might be getting buffed from Stendarr, or Meridia, or whomever, but that doesn't let them cast spells. The act of praying or meditating may help them focus, but their spells aren't coming from their patron deity, and there's no in game benefit for that reverence (in almost all cases).

nimander99

thawks wrote: »

All of the Templar skill books are directly related to Stendarr.

• The Precepts of Stendarr
• Stendarr's Divine Spear
• Aura of the Righteous
• The Four Abominations
• The Friend of All Mortals

However, that doesn't mean your Templar character has to worship Stendarr. A relevant quote from the last book on the list:

Call him Stendarr, call him Stuhn, call him what you will, but the God of Mercy and Justice is the friend to all the mortals of the Mundus, whether they acknowledge him or not. Yea, even the heretic Dark Elves of Morrowind may use his magic of defense and healing, even so the scaled folk of Argonia, for Stendarr in his benevolence draws no distinction between those who rightfully worship him and those who, in their ignorance and error, do not.

I draw my power from the Tribunal.

DragonBound

starkerealm wrote: »

CosmicSoul wrote: »

LMar wrote: »

CosmicSoul wrote: »

Very interesting but I still find it hard to believe that they pray to the actual energy itself when they do not even acknowledge it as a being. If this really was the case then why cant they simply cast spells like a sorc?

They don't pray to anything really, they just use the magic like normal spells. They learned the spells and harness the magicka which comes from Aetherius. The texts I linked specifically said that these are spells which can be taught to anyone. The actions you see the templars doing are just a way of focusing their will to the spell etc.

Also don't confuse gameplay with lore :P

So it is symbolic? They are just copying the rituals much like spell casting?

It's not symbolic. I mean, if they're praying to a specific god, that's an important part of the character, but it doesn't affect their build.

The Elder Scrolls doesn't have the same divine magic/arcane magic system you get in something like D&D or Dark Souls. ESO's a little weird, because it has a more Balkanized form of magic, than most series veterans are familiar with. Normally, magic is delineated into schools, and anyone can cast spells for a school they're familiar with. But, that's kind of an abstract concept in setting. A character simply needs to understand the fundamental principles of the spells they cast, and an understanding of magicka that appears to be available to anyone who wishes to use it. With similar spells having similar fundamental concepts that need to be grasped.

That said, characters can be empowered by other beings, making them a chosen of that being. In the single player games we've had player characters who were Chosen of Azura, and a Chosen of Talos (or Akatosh, it's not entirely clear). There's also a Chosen of Akatosh in ESO, that most players who've run through the DLC should be instantly familiar with. That's how he gets his timestop ability. And it's very likely The Vestige is a Chosen of Meridia. (Though, Meridia has two other Chosen in ESO as NPCs.)

Vampirism, Lycanthropy, and the Dragonborn are similar concepts, though not completely analogous. Again, the character has been empowered by a daedric or aedric being.

But, the ability to actually cast spells? That's not something that's given to them from an outside force (usually). So a Templar might be getting buffed from Stendarr, or Meridia, or whomever, but that doesn't let them cast spells. The act of praying or meditating may help them focus, but their spells aren't coming from their patron deity, and there's no in game benefit for that reverence (in almost all cases).

Well I am very aware it is not like dnd I do not not why people are making this connection personally about me, but to assume they are not getting it from a god is not something we really can know, considering your doing prayers and such to summon that energy in the first place, the aka gods have been known to bestow powers in the elder scrolls so it is not unheard of.

EldritchPenguin

nimander99 wrote: »

thawks wrote: »

All of the Templar skill books are directly related to Stendarr.

• The Precepts of Stendarr
• Stendarr's Divine Spear
• Aura of the Righteous
• The Four Abominations
• The Friend of All Mortals

However, that doesn't mean your Templar character has to worship Stendarr. A relevant quote from the last book on the list:

Call him Stendarr, call him Stuhn, call him what you will, but the God of Mercy and Justice is the friend to all the mortals of the Mundus, whether they acknowledge him or not. Yea, even the heretic Dark Elves of Morrowind may use his magic of defense and healing, even so the scaled folk of Argonia, for Stendarr in his benevolence draws no distinction between those who rightfully worship him and those who, in their ignorance and error, do not.

I draw my power from the Tribunal.

Someone here gets it.

Slap me some skin, soul brother/sister.

EvilCroc

Auri-El of course.

Saucy_Jack

If I had to guess, I'd say some combo of Stendarr, Akatosh, and Arkay, with the possibility of Meridia for the outliers.

AzuraKin

MasterSpatula wrote: »

While "Aedric Spear" would imply the Eight Divines, I tend to consider my Dunmer Templar a follower of the Tribunal Temple. Of course, since the Tribunal's powers are borrowed stolen from Lorkhan, in a sense he still follows the Aedra.

As for my Argonian Templar, I would argue that the Hist are et'Ada, which makes them approximately Aedra. But really, I just consider him a follower of the Eight. After all, in Oblivion, we saw plenty of Argonians at the temples of the Nine.

lorkhan is actually aedric and daedric. lorkhan was part of the creation of nirn thus he is aedric, but he did so by decieving his brethren into helping him thus he created it by corrupting that which was already there, thus he is daedric. also lorkhan is the heart of nirn so one can say nirn is the daedric realm of lorkhan.

AzuraKin

thawks wrote: »

AzuraKin wrote: »

says you, chiaki minami and princess sofia the 1st pray to the 16 true divines. how can the aedra which are weaker then the daedra really call themselves gods. the daedra are the only gods.

The Divines (whether Imperial, Altmeri, Nordic, or else) are venerated because they are the foremost ancestors of man and mer. They, as with the Ehlnofey, gave their power and freedom to create Nirn and all living things that inhabit it.

Why worship beings who do little but mock and attack the achievements of all those who came before you?

(That was rhetorical. The answer is betterment.)

the aedra did not choose to create nirn. lorkhan is the one responsible for nirn which is why he is the heart of nirn. it is why his heart was cut out rather then him being killed because if lorkhan was killed, nirn would cease to exist. thus nirn is the daedric realm of lorkhan. he is also aedra though as he also is a part of the creation of nirn, the other aedra just resent him cause he tricked them.

Narvuntien

Bold statements Auzrakin

I think it is similar to the dragonknights, they learned the magic from the Akaviri but now use the magic without any connection to them.

Templar magic was developed by followers of stendar but once the techinques were out there anyone could learn it without acknowleadging stendarr. So dark elf templars are using skills developed by worshipers of stendar not the power of stendarr himself.

Jemcrystal

I see one person type this is not D&D. Yet many people calling out "dark elves" (instead of saying Dunmer) as if there is something oddly demented about them that they should have trouble with light magic.

I am not a legalist. I don't have a problem mixing up lores. But ... LOTR, Wizards of the Coast, Narnia, and Brother's Grimm are in everything. And I'm seeing it very prevalent in ES. So much so either the writers were highly influenced or they intended to give us R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms fans a place to roost in ES games.

WldKarde

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

Templars are praying to the gods old and new for no more nerfs and a massive buff to stamplars .....

So VERY true!

I Main a Stamplar...and I'll pray to whomever it takes, to be able to ACTUALLY use Templar skills without gimping myself

It's the only character I have out of the 21 so far over 3 accounts...that is BETTER served NOT using class skills.

Emothic

CosmicSoul wrote: »

But you cannot know where they are getting the magic for sure, deadra are known to have certain abilities and they get it from somewhere and the divines seem to represent some of these kinds of abilities as well, if it does not come from them then it is atleast guided by them, my character would not need to pray if they simply came out of the sun.

What is explained is how mortals are able to cast magic. Basiclally your character would not have a magic bar without this connection to the third plain that I expalined. Beings like the Aedra and Dedra were born with the ability to cast magic. They are all in a sense gods, they are all immortal, have powers of what we (real life) see as gods, and are naturally magical. So they don't need this connection to the third plain to get their magic for they are able to cast this on their own.

Now magical skills is another thing. Aedra and Dedra can teach magical skills like Restoration, Alteration, Destruction, Illusion, ect to mortals. And praying to the one who taught that spell can make that spell more powerful.
~~~~

Also since I've been using the terms god and immortal alot, it would be best for me to quickly say this: The Aedra and the Dedra are not technically gods. Yes a few did create the plain of Mundus, the planet Nirn, and mortals. But the Aedra and dedra (both of which are the same "race") are actually the third creation, there were two entities created before them, and there were also two other entities that were created before them aswell.

TheShadowScout

puffytheslayer wrote: »

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Templars follow the Aedra.

But not exactly any specific - even if the skills are somewhat derived from Stendarr (and as native german speaker, that name always makes me giggle a little...), the divine of justive certainly wouldn't mind if, say, a follower of mara borrowed a little from his magic. As long as it was for a just cause.

you cant say that and not explain it too us!

If you insist...

But sadly, forum rules make that a little difficult.

Let's just say in german, having a "Ständer" refers to a certain part of the male anatomy going to its engorged state... and since that is phonetically pretty much exactly like the divines designation... it leads to a great deal of amusement at the mental images that conjures now and then...

James-Wayne

Stendarr is the answer you are looking for.

DragonBound

Emothic wrote: »

CosmicSoul wrote: »

But you cannot know where they are getting the magic for sure, deadra are known to have certain abilities and they get it from somewhere and the divines seem to represent some of these kinds of abilities as well, if it does not come from them then it is atleast guided by them, my character would not need to pray if they simply came out of the sun.

What is explained is how mortals are able to cast magic. Basiclally your character would not have a magic bar without this connection to the third plain that I expalined. Beings like the Aedra and Dedra were born with the ability to cast magic. They are all in a sense gods, they are all immortal, have powers of what we (real life) see as gods, and are naturally magical. So they don't need this connection to the third plain to get their magic for they are able to cast this on their own.

Now magical skills is another thing. Aedra and Dedra can teach magical skills like Restoration, Alteration, Destruction, Illusion, ect to mortals. And praying to the one who taught that spell can make that spell more powerful.
~~~~

Also since I've been using the terms god and immortal alot, it would be best for me to quickly say this: The Aedra and the Dedra are not technically gods. Yes a few did create the plain of Mundus, the planet Nirn, and mortals. But the Aedra and dedra (both of which are the same "race") are actually the third creation, there were two entities created before them, and there were also two other entities that were created before them aswell.

And while I see your point, I do not see how a prayer suddenly is a technique of summoning it from a source of another plane of existence rather then some god guiding it to you since in a prayer your asking not directing.

DragonBound

Jemcrystal wrote: »

I see one person type this is not D&D. Yet many people calling out "dark elves" (instead of saying Dunmer) as if there is something oddly demented about them that they should have trouble with light magic.

I am not a legalist. I don't have a problem mixing up lores. But ... LOTR, Wizards of the Coast, Narnia, and Brother's Grimm are in everything. And I'm seeing it very prevalent in ES. So much so either the writers were highly influenced or they intended to give us R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms fans a place to roost in ES games.

Hahaha so true.

Emothic

CosmicSoul wrote: »

And while I see your point, I do not see how a prayer suddenly is a technique of summoning it from a source of another plane of existence rather then some god guiding it to you since in a prayer your asking not directing.

You are not summoning magic from another sorce. The other sorce is in a literal sense shining down on nirn. Okay lets look at it like this. The third plain is a battery and it produces/stores electricity. The plain of Mundus is a light bulb. And finally the holes in the Mundus plain that bypasses Oblivion and leads to this third plain is the copper wire that allows electricity to flow through it. So when you connect all three of them. The battery that has the power sends it through the copper wire, which is connected to the light bulb and is able to turn that light bulb on.

If these holes in the mortal plain did not exisist. Then mortals whould not be able to cast magic, it is because of these holes that magic is even possible. The Aedra and Dedra are not capable of giving mortal magic. Espically Dedra, as dedra do not have the power or the ability to create new things as by lore of the game. And the Aedra are not powerful enough to give mortals magic as they lost almost all of theirs during the creation of Mundus and Nirn.

Now when an individual is praying to a god, they are simply asking for help. The indvidual is already capable of casting that spell, but asking help from the god can make it more powerful. The gods only help make the spell more powerful when prayed too, that is if they even decide to help. The Aedra are not powerful enough to give all mortal kind, the planet nirn, and even the plane of Mundus magical powers. The Aedra are so weak they can't even go to oblivon. Not only that, but Aedra are so weak they are all actually always asleep. Now when I say weak I mean weak as in their standards not mortal standards.
~~~

If you're still confused check out this youtube video. Now I'm typing on my Xbox One so I can't copy and past links but go to youtube and look up the youtube channel: " Decadence Knight " and look for this video "The Dawn Era - The Elder Scrolls Lore".

DragonBound

Emothic wrote: »

CosmicSoul wrote: »

And while I see your point, I do not see how a prayer suddenly is a technique of summoning it from a source of another plane of existence rather then some god guiding it to you since in a prayer your asking not directing.

You are not summoning magic from another sorce. The other sorce is in a literal sense shining down on nirn. Okay lets look at it like this. The third plain is a battery and it produces/stores electricity. The plain of Mundus is a light bulb. And finally the holes in the Mundus plain that bypasses Oblivion and leads to this third plain is the copper wire that allows electricity to flow through it. So when you connect all three of them. The battery that has the power sends it through the copper wire, which is connected to the light bulb and is able to turn that light bulb on.

If these holes in the mortal plain did not exisist. Then mortals whould not be able to cast magic, it is because of these holes that magic is even possible. The Aedra and Dedra are not capable of giving mortal magic. Espically Dedra, as dedra do not have the power or the ability to create new things as by lore of the game. And the Aedra are not powerful enough to give mortals magic as they lost almost all of theirs during the creation of Mundus and Nirn.

Now when an individual is praying to a god, they are simply asking for help. The indvidual is already capable of casting that spell, but asking help from the god can make it more powerful. The gods only help make the spell more powerful when prayed too, that is if they even decide to help. The Aedra are not powerful enough to give all mortal kind, the planet nirn, and even the plane of Mundus magical powers. The Aedra are so weak they can't even go to oblivon. Not only that, but Aedra are so weak they are all actually always asleep. Now when I say weak I mean weak as in their standards not mortal standards.
~~~

If you're still confused check out this youtube video. Now I'm typing on my Xbox One so I can't copy and past links but go to youtube and look up the youtube channel: " Decadence Knight " and look for this video "The Dawn Era - The Elder Scrolls Lore".

I am not confused I do not think you are understanding, battery or not it is still coming from one source according to these claims, also when it comes to healing and etc, who is to say they already know how to do this? Also considering they are making it more powerful maybe they are doing more then just that and asking for that specific kind of energy, for all we know it could start out as some neutral energy and it is purified by whom they pray to.

Thealteregoroman

SublimeSparo wrote: »

The flying spaghetti monster?
At the moment they're praying to anyone who can stop the blazing spear change

.........Stop it lol.

Rohamad_Ali

Where do Khajiit Templars get their power from ?