Feedback to vMA Loot Changes

Meld777

While I am kind of done with the forums, I thought it would be inappropriate to leave this game without some final feedback on the issue that drove me away from it.

The changes:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Exploration & Itemization
General

• Adjusted the distribution of Maelstrom weapons obtained from the Maelstrom Arena via the Leaderboards and drops.
  • Previously, this was divided evenly by weapon category (Destruction Staff, Two Hand, etc). Now, it is based on the individual item type (Dagger, One Handed Sword, etc), and all damage weapons within the item type have an equal probability to drop.
  • In addition, when a Dual Wield weapon is awarded, you will receive two Dual Wield weapons.
  • We also slightly reduced the drop chance for Healing Staves, Bows, and One Hand and Shields.

My comment on it from another thread:

Meld777 wrote: »

These changes are completely irrelevant (to me at least). Yes, the chances will overall be better in Homestead than they are now. Also, whoever is going after those fancy Sharpened Dagger and Sharpened Axe can count himself lucky. The chances to get 1 specific dagger or axe got doubled.

If you're looking for a Sharpened Inferno to be competitive in end-game, give up or switch to Black Desert. You will have full tet gear with Kzarka and everything before you get a Sharpened Inferno.

Little calculation example:

Homestead Sharpened Inferno Chance (300 runs): 1-(95/96)^300 ~ 95% -> 5%, 1 out of 20, will still not have their Sharpened Inferno after 300+ runs (not counting weeklies). And weekly drops the same trash as the chest.

Before Dark Brotherhood Sharpened Inferno Chance (300 runs): 1-(35/36)^300 ~ 99.98% only 0.02% will not have it after 300 runs (not counting weeklies). And weekly guaranteed a weapon in a good trait.

To have a 5% chance of not getting the Sharpened Inferno, or 95% chance of getting it, you need to run vMA 300 times in Homestead. To have the same chance before Dark Brotherhood, you had to run it 100 times. 3 times less. And I am not taking the crucial factor into account that the weekly reward guaranteed a weapon in a good trait before Dark Brotherhood. Yes, people just ran it once a week and were filling up on awesome weapons over the weeks, while currently others are forced to farm it for months without a single decent drop.

@ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_Finn A token system was long overdue. Not only that, but at least you could've made the leaderboard only drop weapons in good traits, as it was before Dark Brotherhood. This change doesn't help the already discouraged people that ran the arena 500+/1000+ times and didn't get their desired weapon. I already got screwed hard by vMA. I will not run another 500 runs while having a significant chance to not get what I'm looking for. And yes, 5% in 300 runs is a very significant chance. And the fact that even the new, better chances in Homestead allow for some people to not get what they want in 1000+ runs, makes this system flawed. Mathematical misery should either not exist at all or be out of reach. 1 out of 20 is not out of reach. You are looking at a huge frustrated population being damned to compete with a handicap.

Maybe it is your goal to keep the end-game community small. Well, I hope you're happy with Hodor being the only competitive raiding guild out there soon, as they all got their vMA weapons easily before Dark Brotherhood, and I dare you to find decent players that will find it fun to compete with a handicap in the long run, no matter how much energy they invest in getting rid of it.

Stamden

This 100%. In addition to this, it would also be great to give 2h weapons a 2 piece bonus for sets. If both this and VMA drops were fixed, I would call like this patch regardless of everything else.

LegendaryArcher

This is the changes I expected and I like them.

More dedicated, loyal players will quit ESO and switch to BDO because, let's be honest, this is the only game that offers a bigger and more advanced world, better graphics, and a better combat system than ESO. All other MMOs lack at least in one of those categories.

Since the dedicated, loyal players are the ones spending most cash on MMOs, it will not only increase the player quality of BDO, but also increase revenues, which will lead to more awesome content. My BDO guild is already over 70 ex ESO players strong.

As @Meld777 correctly pointed out, next patch it will be just Hodor left in the competition sector. All the other somewhat competitive guilds are falling apart now because people are done with running Maelstrom for nothing, continuing to compete with a disadvantage.

I say Homestead is the last patch to milk the remaining players with RNG boxes. After that, ESO is going F2P.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Its interesting that @ZOS_RichLambert states that he wants to reduce the power gap from the very top and the very bottom and yet he does nothing about reining in the power of Maelstrom weapons (or bringing other sets up to par) and instead nerfs monster helm proc sets.

• This only makes the need for grinding Maelstrom weapons even higher and increases the power gap between those who have Maelstrom Weapons, and those who do not.
• Anyone can get monster sets now. Some of the best ones for PvE (ilambris, grothdar, kra'gh) are particularly easy to get.
• And yet almost every Maelstrom Arena Guide I read recommends a gear set up that includes Maelstrom Weapons. Chicken meet egg.
• Most Stamina guides for BIS DPS include 1h maelstrom and most magicka guides include sharpened destro.

You need very specific Maelstrom weapons for some of the highest DPS in the game. This is one of those "rich get richer" situations and seems to be exactly what Rich was trying to prevent. I know there would be howls of anguish if Maelstrom weapons were ever nerfed so maybe its time to bring other setups up to par. Maybe monster helms- oh wait. they just got nerfed.

This is the problem and why many of us really think this patch is going the exact wrong way.

Stillian

Maybe at least weekly rewards can get rid of useless traits? offencive weapons - offencive traits, defencive weapons with other traits.
If you want every weapon to be obtainable for the sake of hipster who wants to run charged in his build - he can get it in the chest of the arena.

RazorCaltrops

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Its interesting that @ZOS_RichLambert states that he wants to reduce the power gap from the very top and the very bottom and yet he does nothing about reining in the power of Maelstrom weapons (or bringing other sets up to par) and instead nerfs monster helm proc sets.

• This only makes the need for grinding Maelstrom weapons even higher and increases the power gap between those who have Maelstrom Weapons, and those who do not.
• Anyone can get monster sets now. Some of the best ones for PvE (ilambris, grothdar, kra'gh) are particularly easy to get.
• And yet almost every Maelstrom Arena Guide I read recommends a gear set up that includes Maelstrom Weapons. Chicken meet egg.
• Most Stamina guides for BIS DPS include 1h maelstrom and most magicka guides include sharpened destro.

You need very specific Maelstrom weapons for some of the highest DPS in the game. This is one of those "rich get richer" situations and seems to be exactly what Rich was trying to prevent. I know there would be howls of anguish if Maelstrom weapons were ever nerfed so maybe its time to bring other setups up to par. Maybe monster helms- oh wait. they just got nerfed.

This is the problem and why many of us really think this patch is going the exact wrong way.

The gap is not that huge (speaking for magicka). A player who knows the his/her class will always outdps players who have bis but don't know their rotation properly.

Do not know which builds you mean but except vma bow, every other vma weapon is a dps loss in vma itself (biggest irony in the game)

Not most, every stamina guide will recommend vma 1h because they are still very powerful even after the nerf, and the ONLY reliable means to play stamina in PVE -which needs to be addressed, a serious issue- while you can still clear everything in the game without destro. Our group cleared VMOL HM this week with 5 DDs using crafted inferno staff / vma with "meh" traits on the back bar.

Stamina relies heavily on vma weapons but if you play as magicka, player skill can outweigh vma destro staff

Stillian

RazorCaltrops wrote: »

The gap is not that huge (speaking for magicka). A player who knows the his/her class will always outdps players who have bis but don't know their rotation properly.

Yeah though player who knows how to play AND has best weapons will outdamage person who also knows how to play but doesnt have the gear. Topic starter is a competitve player who competes for n1 spots, and for his goals he needs to have the weapon. He spent a heckload of time in the arena and he cannot get a weapon in an effin year. Knowledge that he can outdps a noob with a staff doesnt make him feel any better.

Xsorus

LegendaryArcher wrote: »

This is the changes I expected and I like them.

More dedicated, loyal players will quit ESO and switch to BDO because, let's be honest, this is the only game that offers a bigger and more advanced world, better graphics, and a better combat system than ESO. All other MMOs lack at least in one of those categories.

Since the dedicated, loyal players are the ones spending most cash on MMOs, it will not only increase the player quality of BDO, but also increase revenues, which will lead to more awesome content. My BDO guild is already over 70 ex ESO players strong.

As @Meld777 correctly pointed out, next patch it will be just Hodor left in the competition sector. All the other somewhat competitive guilds are falling apart now because people are done with running Maelstrom for nothing, continuing to compete with a disadvantage.

I say Homestead is the last patch to milk the remaining players with RNG boxes. After that, ESO is going F2P.

BDO is another bland *** Korean game that's p2w which is why is dying in the west like the previous *** Korean games.

j_s

vMA RNG is fine as it is. Just run it more often. Where's the fun in getting BIS items without effort. also, imagine if everyone were to run around with the same strongest weapon, it wouldn't be "strongest" anylonger but common and ZOS would have to introduce another rare item with better stats that is hard to get, and the whining continues...

Say, leave it.

bitels

j_s wrote: »

vMA RNG is fine as it is. Just run it more often. Where's the fun in getting BIS items without effort. also, imagine if everyone were to run around with the same strongest weapon, it wouldn't be "strongest" anylonger but common and ZOS would have to introduce another rare item with better stats that is hard to get, and the whining continues...

Say, leave it.

My friend get inferno sharp staff on second run.
My guild mate run it 300+ without getting one.
Who put more effort in it?

Only thing i want is token system- if i was able to get thru vMSA 50 times i thing i prove myself enought to get the weapon i want. Now its just a chore, mindless grind i have to force myself thru.
Lets face it- challenge stop after few dozens times you complete vMSA.

j_s

50 times is simply not enough to keep this item "rare". You're simply frustrated and desperate because you so much want it. It's the same as wishing to win the lottery and get rich. Some minority folks are lucky and win it, while the vast majority doesn't ...and cries out loud for a token system.

bitels

j_s wrote: »

It's the same as wishing to win the lottery and get rich. Some minority folks are lucky and win it, while the vast majority doesn't ...and cries out loud for a token system.

Yep- lottery. You pinpoint it. Not skill, not effort- just lottery.
And fyi i did it more then 50 times, its just example on how token system could work. And I dont get your obsession with vMSA weapons being "rare", i dont care if its rare or not. I just would like to see a day when BIS items are lock behind skill based system, instead of a RnG.

RazorCaltrops

Stillian wrote: »

RazorCaltrops wrote: »

The gap is not that huge (speaking for magicka). A player who knows the his/her class will always outdps players who have bis but don't know their rotation properly.

Yeah though player who knows how to play AND has best weapons will outdamage person who also knows how to play but doesnt have the gear. Topic starter is a competitve player who competes for n1 spots, and for his goals he needs to have the weapon. He spent a heckload of time in the arena and he cannot get a weapon in an effin year. Knowledge that he can outdps a noob with a staff doesnt make him feel any better.

Of course, and agree. I myself still spending considerable amount of time in VMA for the exact same reason. Just wanted to point out that one can deal sufficient damage for their goals -if not better- until the desired weapon drops.

LadyNalcarya

LegendaryArcher wrote: »

This is the changes I expected and I like them.

More dedicated, loyal players will quit ESO and switch to BDO because, let's be honest, this is the only game that offers a bigger and more advanced world, better graphics, and a better combat system than ESO. All other MMOs lack at least in one of those categories.

Since the dedicated, loyal players are the ones spending most cash on MMOs, it will not only increase the player quality of BDO, but also increase revenues, which will lead to more awesome content. My BDO guild is already over 70 ex ESO players strong.

As @Meld777 correctly pointed out, next patch it will be just Hodor left in the competition sector. All the other somewhat competitive guilds are falling apart now because people are done with running Maelstrom for nothing, continuing to compete with a disadvantage.

I say Homestead is the last patch to milk the remaining players with RNG boxes. After that, ESO is going F2P.

BDO is a crappy Korean grindfest with no endgame but it shows how bad vMA drop system is...

covenant_merchant

You know, I'm just happy that they acknowledged that their "loot distribution" wasn't fair to begin with. After that? We'll see. Made 224 runs myself (while counting the loot) to this date - no Inferno staff. Well no sharpened destro staff, no matter what type, since I need it for PVP (though I guess Ice would be rip next patch, having tried it out on pts).

And for many competitive PVP setups, you do have to run vMSA/vDSA staves. Otherwise you cannot do 5 - 5 - 1 as setup, and good luck farming for Amberplasm sharpened / defending staves. I genuinely don't know which one is more tedious.

mr_wazzabi

j_s wrote: »

vMA RNG is fine as it is. Just run it more often. Where's the fun in getting BIS items without effort. also, imagine if everyone were to run around with the same strongest weapon, it wouldn't be "strongest" anylonger but common and ZOS would have to introduce another rare item with better stats that is hard to get, and the whining continues...

Say, leave it.

Who's got the time for that? If you were one of the guys that ran it 1000 times with no sharpened staff, would you run to 2000? I think not.

j_s

if you didn't win the lottery by the 1000th time, would you keep trying or not? same applies here...it's a luck based feature, why's it so difficult to accept it?

Meld777

j_s wrote: »

if you didn't win the lottery by the 1000th time, would you keep trying or not? same applies here...it's a luck based feature, why's it so difficult to accept it?

Because if everyone you compete with has it, after a year of competing, while being the handicapped minority, you lose the desire to compete and play another game with fair end-game competition and fair loot system. Especially, considering the people you compete with got those weapons handed to them like candy before DB.

Xsorus wrote: »

LegendaryArcher wrote: »

This is the changes I expected and I like them.

More dedicated, loyal players will quit ESO and switch to BDO because, let's be honest, this is the only game that offers a bigger and more advanced world, better graphics, and a better combat system than ESO. All other MMOs lack at least in one of those categories.

Since the dedicated, loyal players are the ones spending most cash on MMOs, it will not only increase the player quality of BDO, but also increase revenues, which will lead to more awesome content. My BDO guild is already over 70 ex ESO players strong.

As @Meld777 correctly pointed out, next patch it will be just Hodor left in the competition sector. All the other somewhat competitive guilds are falling apart now because people are done with running Maelstrom for nothing, continuing to compete with a disadvantage.

I say Homestead is the last patch to milk the remaining players with RNG boxes. After that, ESO is going F2P.

BDO is another bland *** Korean game that's p2w which is why is dying in the west like the previous *** Korean games.

This is absolute nonsense. If BDO is P2W, what is ESO? All cash shop items are purely cosmetic, same as in ESO. Except when you want to buy gold in ESO for real money, there's tons of websites offering it. You can have 10M gold traded to you and no one will care. In BDO there are active admins and you will never be able to buy enough in-game currency for real money to buy a Kzarka weapon. They have much better algorithms to track gold selling and people getting large sums of money from characters they never had anything to do with before. ESO is definitely more P2W than BDO.

Also, both are B2P. But as things are going for ESO, I can see it F2P in 6 months to a year. With lots and lots of gambling boxes.

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

LegendaryArcher wrote: »

This is the changes I expected and I like them.

More dedicated, loyal players will quit ESO and switch to BDO because, let's be honest, this is the only game that offers a bigger and more advanced world, better graphics, and a better combat system than ESO. All other MMOs lack at least in one of those categories.

Since the dedicated, loyal players are the ones spending most cash on MMOs, it will not only increase the player quality of BDO, but also increase revenues, which will lead to more awesome content. My BDO guild is already over 70 ex ESO players strong.

As @Meld777 correctly pointed out, next patch it will be just Hodor left in the competition sector. All the other somewhat competitive guilds are falling apart now because people are done with running Maelstrom for nothing, continuing to compete with a disadvantage.

I say Homestead is the last patch to milk the remaining players with RNG boxes. After that, ESO is going F2P.

BDO is a crappy Korean grindfest with no endgame but it shows how bad vMA drop system is...

I don't know what BDO has ever done to you, but

1. you "grind" = play with actual people, it's an MMO. You interact and have fun together. No solo grind.
2. the "Korean grind fest", as you call it, is the same as in ESO. Except I find it more entertaining, challenging and complex. World bosses have very complex mechanics where groups of players have to work together. The "grinding" process itself is fun. You can compare the mechanics of a world boss to Rakkhat. Except you can't outdps everything in BDO because it's balanced.
3. everyone is going through the same grind. It's not like Tet BiS gear was given to the best players for a month and then gated away from the rest. Like Sharpened/Precise vMA weapons.
4. There's a light in the end of the tunnel. BDO has a bad luck protection system. Yes, getting all BiS gear takes long. Even leveling takes 5x as long as getting to max CP in ESO. However, you have always the chance to get more lucky. But if you don't, you know you'll get what you want eventually.

LiquidPony

j_s wrote: »

vMA RNG is fine as it is. Just run it more often. Where's the fun in getting BIS items without effort. also, imagine if everyone were to run around with the same strongest weapon, it wouldn't be "strongest" anylonger but common and ZOS would have to introduce another rare item with better stats that is hard to get, and the whining continues...

Say, leave it.

j_s wrote: »

50 times is simply not enough to keep this item "rare". You're simply frustrated and desperate because you so much want it. It's the same as wishing to win the lottery and get rich. Some minority folks are lucky and win it, while the vast majority doesn't ...and cries out loud for a token system.

I have to very strongly disagree. 50 vMA runs is probably 100+ hours of playtime. That ought to be enough to ensure at least one useful item.

I don't personally want a token system. Ultimately, I'd like to see weapon traits balanced to get out of this boring Sharpened-or-bust meta we're stuck with. Barring that, just reduce the loot table to drop useful traits (e.g., offensive weapons in sharpened, precise, Nirnhoned and infused). Or give us a better shot at useful weapons with the weekly reward or Flawless runs. Or get rid of the useless sword and board enchantment and lump all DW weapons together with the Cruel Flurry enchantment.

I've run it many, many times. Cross my fingers for good weekly rewards every week (thus far I've deconned every weekly reward I've ever received). I have more than 50 resto staves and sword & boards. No sharpened bow, axe, dagger, or destro staff.

I'm fine with Maelstrom weapons being rare. But I also think that a very small percentage of the population ever completes Maelstrom, and I don't see any reason that having usable Maelstrom weapons should be an order of magnitude rarer than any other gear in the game.

VarilRau

Scrap the weapons on vMA, just have it drop the enchant. There's still RNG involved to run it again and again when you need it. Or when the meta changes and you want your spriggan staff to have the vMA enchant. Now you would just need to run it for the enchant for destro staff, and not worry about 50th charged vMA frost staff...

The_Protagonist

There are a number of things that should be addressed in vMA loot table:

1. ZOS must consider scraping garbage traits, seriuosly ZOS does a flawless conquorer require a training trait
2. Drops should be based on character weapon skills, this is bluntly very clear why we are running vMA in the first place
3. Rewarding enchants for weekly leaderboards is quite feasible

I know ZOS that you will not implement this, but take this into consideration in your next update and release us from our grief.

If RNG is going to stay, then just NERF the whole damn Arena.

Artis

LiquidPony wrote: »

j_s wrote: »

vMA RNG is fine as it is. Just run it more often. Where's the fun in getting BIS items without effort. also, imagine if everyone were to run around with the same strongest weapon, it wouldn't be "strongest" anylonger but common and ZOS would have to introduce another rare item with better stats that is hard to get, and the whining continues...

Say, leave it.

j_s wrote: »

50 times is simply not enough to keep this item "rare". You're simply frustrated and desperate because you so much want it. It's the same as wishing to win the lottery and get rich. Some minority folks are lucky and win it, while the vast majority doesn't ...and cries out loud for a token system.

I have to very strongly disagree. 50 vMA runs is probably 100+ hours of playtime. That ought to be enough to ensure at least one useful item.

Disagree all you want, but technically he's right. 50 vMA runs = in a couple of months everyone in end-game will have those weapons, while those weapons are supposed to be rare and stay rare.

Meld777 wrote: »

@ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_Finn A token system was long overdue. Not only that, but at least you could've made the leaderboard only drop weapons in good traits, as it was before Dark Brotherhood. This change doesn't help the already discouraged people that ran the arena 500+/1000+ times and didn't get their desired weapon. I already got screwed hard by vMA. I will not run another 500 runs while having a significant chance to not get what I'm looking for. And yes, 5% in 300 runs is a very significant chance. And the fact that even the new, better chances in Homestead allow for some people to not get what they want in 1000+ runs, makes this system flawed. Mathematical misery should either not exist at all or be out of reach. 1 out of 20 is not out of reach. You are looking at a huge frustrated population being damned to compete with a handicap.

Maybe it is your goal to keep the end-game community small. Well, I hope you're happy with Hodor being the only competitive raiding guild out there soon, as they all got their vMA weapons easily before Dark Brotherhood, and I dare you to find decent players that will find it fun to compete with a handicap in the long run, no matter how much energy they invest in getting rid of it.

Just say it, you don't want rare weapons. You want for everyone to have the same stuff in endgame so it's "competitive" and play a MOBA in tes universe. I don't get it why you think that what's better for you and competitive 1%(that huge frustrated population lol) is better for the whole game.

Yeah, let's do token system. 1 run - weapon of your choice. Or maybe 2? No, 1<2, let's go with 1.

bitels

Is golden jewelry IA/VO/Moondancer are rare? Yes they are, but if u have enought skill and dedication to get thru vet trials u get whole set in just few runs.
I belive this kind of things should be hard to get, but obtaining them should be about player skill and effort and not the RnG luck.

Buff vMSA and give us token system- its all i ask for.

Ladislao

I don't agree that drop system should be changed. Perhaps, it is worth changing some disputable traits like prosperous/training and no more.
You always have alternatives like master and set staffs. Most of persons interested has already received msa weapon. If you don't ...

Molec

Nobody wants a guaranteed weapon of their choice within 1, 2 or even 10 runs. Instead people would like a system that guarantees a weapon of your choice after say 50 runs, that would still equate to 600 runs if people wanted all of the weapons and that translates into 33.3 days continuous play time with an average run of 80 minutes. That is far beyond an unreasonable request. Bad luck protection can be implemented without any side effects if done correctly, having people run a thousand times isn't good for the game as it's locking end game players in a single player instance instead of populating vet dungeons and trials.

LiquidPony

Artis wrote: »

Disagree all you want, but technically he's right. 50 vMA runs = in a couple of months everyone in end-game will have those weapons, while those weapons are supposed to be rare and stay rare.

@Artis I really love it when people try to pass off opinions as facts. Makes for really productive discussions.

I said 50 vMA runs was reasonable to ensure one usable drop. For a stam DPS who optimally needs 3 Sharpened Maelstrom weapons (bow, dagger/axe), that's 150 runs. Which is, for a reasonably skilled player, probably about 150 hours in the Arena. That's 1 Maelstrom run per day, every day, for 5 months. To outfit one character.

And Maelstrom weapons aren't rare. I have a hundred of them and have deconned many more. There is an artificial rarity imposed on the most desirable Maelstrom weapons because the ESO weapon trait system is horribly imbalanced, because the drop categories are tilted towards the least desirable PvE weapons, and because the Sword and Mace are useless. If Nirnhoned or Precise were worth using, there would be no scarcity.

Beyond that, Maelstrom runs are costly and provide no benefit. In the time it takes to do one Maelstrom run, I can blow through both vHRC and vAA (in which I am 4 times more likely to get a useful Sharpened IA/VO piece), earn $24k gold in Undaunted Plunder, open 10 chests and 40 heavy sacks, and get a couple of motifs worth $15k+ every week.

But hey, at least I got a Powered Maul and a Charged Sword & Shield of Permafrost out of my leaderboard rewards this week. That's 2 tempering alloys and a rosin if I'm lucky.

I've also noted that the only people I ever find arguing that the Maelstrom drop rates are fine are the people who got all their Sharpened weapons back when the Arena only dropped weapons in 3 traits and leaderboard rewards were guaranteed to be good.

LiquidPony

Ladislao wrote: »

I don't agree that drop system should be changed. Perhaps, it is worth changing some disputable traits like prosperous/training and no more.
You always have alternatives like master and set staffs. Most of persons interested has already received msa weapon. If you don't ...

@Ladislao Maelstrom weapons don't drop in Prosperous or Training, and Master weapons are not an alternative to Maelstrom weapons for any PvE build.

Armitas

Some people broke the 2,000 mark before they finally got the weapon they wanted. I still won't run VMA until they do a better job with the drops. VMA was already a frustrating experience and then they went and stealth buffed it in 1 tamriel. It's not fun at all, it's exasperating, I had to quit doing it just to keep myself from rage quitting the game again. I can't believe PvP balance gets screwed over just to make a dungeon that almost no one likes doing functional. (Example cDB and burning embers)

Artis

LiquidPony wrote: »

Beyond that, Maelstrom runs are costly and provide no benefit. In the time it takes to do one Maelstrom run, I can blow through both vHRC and vAA (in which I am 4 times more likely to get a useful Sharpened IA/VO piece), earn $24k gold in Undaunted Plunder, open 10 chests and 40 heavy sacks, and get a couple of motifs worth $15k+ every week.

But hey, at least I got a Powered Maul and a Charged Sword & Shield of Permafrost out of my leaderboard rewards this week. That's 2 tempering alloys and a rosin if I'm lucky.

And you have an option to do exactly that. Nobody forces you to run vMA.

Yes, let it be 5 months. That's what I'm saying, in a few months-year - EVERYONE in endgame will have them. That ruins the purpose. Now explain why you think nothing should be rare, where rare obviously means that only a few % of people have it.
Also, you having hundreds of them doesn't mean they are not rare, if others don't have them. Besides, I bet most of them aren't sharpened.

And what's the problem? I agree, let's introduce tokens. But why postpone the inevitable. Let's just make 1 run grant 1 weapon.

Parafrost

LiquidPony wrote: »

j_s wrote: »

vMA RNG is fine as it is. Just run it more often. Where's the fun in getting BIS items without effort. also, imagine if everyone were to run around with the same strongest weapon, it wouldn't be "strongest" anylonger but common and ZOS would have to introduce another rare item with better stats that is hard to get, and the whining continues...

Say, leave it.

j_s wrote: »

50 times is simply not enough to keep this item "rare". You're simply frustrated and desperate because you so much want it. It's the same as wishing to win the lottery and get rich. Some minority folks are lucky and win it, while the vast majority doesn't ...and cries out loud for a token system.

I have to very strongly disagree. 50 vMA runs is probably 100+ hours of playtime. That ought to be enough to ensure at least one useful item.

I don't personally want a token system. Ultimately, I'd like to see weapon traits balanced to get out of this boring Sharpened-or-bust meta we're stuck with. Barring that, just reduce the loot table to drop useful traits (e.g., offensive weapons in sharpened, precise, Nirnhoned and infused). Or give us a better shot at useful weapons with the weekly reward or Flawless runs. Or get rid of the useless sword and board enchantment and lump all DW weapons together with the Cruel Flurry enchantment.

I've run it many, many times. Cross my fingers for good weekly rewards every week (thus far I've deconned every weekly reward I've ever received). I have more than 50 resto staves and sword & boards. No sharpened bow, axe, dagger, or destro staff.

I'm fine with Maelstrom weapons being rare. But I also think that a very small percentage of the population ever completes Maelstrom, and I don't see any reason that having usable Maelstrom weapons should be an order of magnitude rarer than any other gear in the game.

I like the idea of getting bis weapons from doing a flawless run. Remove snb from the loot table though. That set has no place in any situation, even pvp. Master sword is 10x better, shield is useless as you can just equip any random shield and get the job done.

Carbonised

If you care for a long and somewhat in-depth read, I made a rather long-winded analysis as to why ESO insists on subscribing to a reward model that relies first and foremost on randomness.

As long as the company behind ESO, ZOS, insists on following this doctrine, we will see no vMA tokens, no guaranteed drops, and no significant change to the randomness in loot rewards, both in vMA and everywhere else.

To sum this up: ZOS has learned from behavioural psychology that handing random rewards out instead of guaranteed ones increases the average player time invested in their game, in this case in the vMA trial.

Ideally either foregoing the variable ratio schedule completely, for instance with a token model, or a hybrid mode with both variable and nonvariable schedules, such as random drops and guaranteed drops from leaderboard for flawless runs, would do much to soften up the harshnes of the variable schedule.

But then again, fundamentally ZOS aren't here to please us, they are here to keep us hooked on their game and keep us playing, and the variable schedule tells them exactly how to do this.

And as long as people still invest 200-300+ runs into vMA, you're just proving them right - their business model is a success. Conclusively, I believe that the only way to make them reconsider the variable schedule is by abstaining from the content, in this case vMA, until their numbers prove that too few people participate in the trial, and that change is warranted.
As long as people keep throwing themselves into the endless grind machine, you're just proving to ZOS that their reward doctrine is a success and that there is no need to change it.