Regarding magicka sorcs and nerfs

Waffennacht

So pets got a resistance buff (but why? If magicka sorc and pets you're running ward)

Curse got nuked, now you can cast it once and not worry for 12 secs (but get about 40% of the previous dps)

Familiar is more PUG friendly now (but changes no dps)

Atro gets a buff - can be a useful ult I suppose finally

I'm pretty glad I started using new classes, the pigeonholed just got holed harder.

Clarkieson

covenant_merchant wrote: »

Clarkieson wrote: »

covenant_merchant wrote: »

Gothren wrote: »

covenant_merchant wrote: »

Gothren wrote: »

jarydf wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

If you think magicka DKs got heavily buffed, you didn't read the same patch notes I did. We got diddly / squat. I do think update 13 will finally answer the question which class spec is on the very bottom of the tier, and magblades will probably win that award.

I was reading the patch notes looking for the MDK buff that was hinted at previously but if it is there I can't see it. The Dragons blood for instance fits in well with the other changes in that it just leaves me scratching my head.

The only thing that comes to mind is that ZOS is looking at data / stats for their insight rather than playing the game. They nerf things that in the stats are pulling large numbers rather than what actually matters when you are playing the game.

The other thing that the "frost tank" changes suggest is that they have a theoretical direction that they want for the game to go that we are not party to that will be forced. Even though I like the sorc pets I think they are a classic example of that. They want them to work so much they force them regardless of what the actual player base want.

pets already do work i don't know where you have been. they needed a buff and they got it. no one is forced to do anything. don't like it? then don't slot the skills.

Sorcs are forced to move into the "pokemon trainer" direction. Yes, pets got buffs. But there was no need to nerf "non-pet" builds, which they did. Sorcs are losing more and more build diversity with every patch. Pets and negate bubbles will be the only things left.

maybe you should "force yourself" to be a better player? mag sorcs got buffs on all fronts. why you are blind to this idk. im not helping you. please come to cyrodill. i need your ap.

How did sorc get buffed? Please explain to me, oh wise man. And I have 146 days of playtime on my magsorc, am General (though ranks don't mean much), and would consider myself a decent sorc. @amanozako if you're PC EU, would love to duel you. But yeah, now that you've mentioned it, what are the buffs you speak of? Or are you even reading the same patch notes?

But dem pets tho

You will now be able to wipe zergs with a clanfear and solo hm vmol with twightlight

Oh wait.....

Pets will never be viable for open world PVP. IC, why not? But open world, there's too many variables, and even with increased resistances, your pets can easily be dealt with and reconjuring takes 2 seconds, 2 seconds which you won't have while being snared and bashed, or CCed by enemies.
Not to mention that not everyone likes that playstyle. I have a lot of respect for successful pet mages, but they are few and in between. I personally dislike having to lose 2 slots per bar and playing with necropotence at the cost of sustain.

Agreed

Pets getting buffed is like giving a spudgun to man with a nuke, a nice gift but completely useless

covenant_merchant

Waffennacht wrote: »

So pets got a resistance buff (but why? If magicka sorc and pets you're running ward)

Curse got nuked, now you can cast it once and not worry for 12 secs (but get about 40% of the previous dps)

Familiar is more PUG friendly now (but changes no dps)

Atro gets a buff - can be a useful ult I suppose finally

I'm pretty glad I started using new classes, the pigeonholed just got holed harder.

And I'm sad I hadn't taken advantage of the New Life experience mead to level skills on my magdk. Though come to think of it, I'd quit the game before maining another class.

darthsithis

I played my sorc and only my sorc since day one. I excelled at all aspects of the game, made leaderboards despite all the nerfs, made it work, adapted to everything...and could only watch as my doppelgänger worked harder and harder to remain competent.

Now a pet buff? I can barely stand blind aegis let alone three toggles lol. No crits on ilambris, kena is useless with overload cut in half (my beloved elegance vma setup ::cries::) I have NO idea what this velocious curse nonsense is- literally no idea what you guys are talking about but it sounds dumb.

Everything costs more resources and the only builds we have will come nowhere near the stam sorc, mag dk, templar, or really any class in terms of uniqueness and having a niche function. What can a sorc bring to the table that no one else can? A skilled player can just reroll and be so much more efficient at anything. Screw this I'm done for a while.I gave my heart and soul to my character, so many hours and dollars into the game, made really great friends, but I just can't bring myself to sub to eso plus with this nonsense. I NEVER rage about stuff and just try to adapt, but I'm not ok with supporting these changes. Hiatus time peace out, time for some final fantasy 15, lmk when they decide to nerf liquid lightning and only let you cast hardened ward when two lets are active or whatever- I also predict streak will cost hp for no reason, inferno staves will scale off of physical resistance, and crystal frags will only proc off of opening a crown crate.

darthsithis

covenant_merchant wrote: »

I'd quit the game before maining another class.

Me too. Blessings of julianos upon ye, hope you aren't too frustrated if you choose to stay on your sorc.

andreasranasen

Vaoh wrote: »

spencer2361 wrote: »

I can't speak for pvp but someone having posted on the forum that a magsorc soloed vWGT probably didn't help the cause

SublimeSparo wrote: »

spencer2361 wrote: »

I can't speak for pvp but someone having posted on the forum that a magsorc soloed vWGT probably didn't help the cause

Yea, @Vaoh he didn't use overload, or curse iirc

They nerfed Overload and Curse, neither of which I ever used in solo content. Overload is weak for DPS and mainly serves as a third bar for extra buffs.

What they DID do is buff pets (which I use) and Elemental Drain (which I use).

I don't really want to talk about the state of ESO next patch. It may potentially be the most imbalanced we have seen this game.

Thank you! Who uses Overload for DPS? It's just good for a third bar but that's about it. I don't mind the nerf on ult with Overload at all. Can't wait to use my pets tho!

Clarkieson

darthsithis wrote: »

covenant_merchant wrote: »

I'd quit the game before maining another class.

Me too. Blessings of julianos upon ye, hope you aren't too frustrated if you choose to stay on your sorc.

Quit the game? Im not sure i can face eso anymore. Its hard to be motivated to play right now

Kutsuu

I can't take anyone seriously who plays MMOs, but quits after the release of some patch notes that they haven't even had the opportunity to test yet. How many games has someone like this quit at the drop of a hat? I would guess dozens... You'd think a highly emotional and kneejerking person like this would start playing solo RPGs instead, since they rarely receive balance patches after release.

Any long time MMO player knows the ups and downs of balance patches, and simply spends time testing new changes, gives their feedback in the appropriate format, and adapts to the changes that make it through. The good sorcs will adapt and continue being a force to reckon with.

Also, PTS changes aren't set in stone. It's likely some things will change. Probably not everything some of you are hoping for, though.

Personally I get the feeling that ZOS felt sorc burst rotations were too frequent in PVP (curse), and that being able to spam 1000 ult worth of overload was imbalanced in some content. I can't say I completely disagree with them.

LordGavus

On the subject of curse, if you can stack a new curse on top of the echo explosion, there won't be much of a dps loss.
Simple rounded numbers below.

If you can stack the new curse would be,
6s = 10K dmg
12s = 10K echo + 10K
18s = 10K echo + 10K
24s = 10K echo
The equals 60K dmg

Currently, if you fire a curse every 4 seconds (I know it's 3.5 cooldown) you would get off 6 curses in 24 seconds, which would be the same damage as above.

So in real use there would only be a small damage loss.

If you can't stack however, I'll be finding a new skill to use in its place.

Waseem

i main a magicka sorc and shields are not a big concern for me, i may die more often than if i keep shields up yes, but i feel more "effective" and have more fun in pvp, be it solo or in groups

i just felt its a turtle play to use 2 damage shields every 7 seconds, to each his taste and playstyle

downside of shields is PvE. its very bad
6 seconds is horrible

kadar

Lists Mines as an ability that Sorcs have "lost effective use of..."

Wat.

Clarkieson

The_Outsider wrote: »

Lists Mines as an ability that Sorcs have "lost effective use of..."

Wat.

Vampire, mist form, eat all the mines with reduced damage and no cc, no more mines

Lylith

seems to be an obsession with six seconds.

LordGavus

Lylith wrote: »

seems to be an obsession with six seconds.

Yeah, now I have 3 aoe/dot skills in my rotation, all 6 seconds. At least the timing is now easier to remember.

darthsithis

Kutsuu wrote: »

I can't take anyone seriously who plays MMOs, but quits after the release of some patch notes that they haven't even had the opportunity to test yet. How many games has someone like this quit at the drop of a hat? I would guess dozens... You'd think a highly emotional and kneejerking person like this would start playing solo RPGs instead, since they rarely receive balance patches after release.

Any long time MMO player knows the ups and downs of balance patches, and simply spends time testing new changes, gives their feedback in the appropriate format, and adapts to the changes that make it through. The good sorcs will adapt and continue being a force to reckon with.

Also, PTS changes aren't set in stone. It's likely some things will change. Probably not everything some of you are hoping for, though.

Personally I get the feeling that ZOS felt sorc burst rotations were too frequent in PVP (curse), and that being able to spam 1000 ult worth of overload was imbalanced in some content. I can't say I completely disagree with them.

Yeah, I'm a pve player though, and any class outshines sorc now, almost no point.

And I loved my magsorc, but I love being competitive more.

I did say I relentlessly adapted with each gimp since day one and made it work well, but I have 66 days in my sorc and I can't fathom getting all those skill points, skill trees, abilities, and especially mastering another class like I did my sorc.

Yeah it's not the end of the world, but these pvp changes affecting pve are absurd. and seriously?? Pets?

I won't quit, already got over it. Might buy a race change and spec to stam not sure. just feel really sad because I love love loved playing as a mag sorc. Just ain't as viable at endgame anymore and that's what hurts. My pets ain't going into vMoL with me, buff our crappy execute instead.

I am one of the good sorcs that adapts and have been a force to be reckoned with, but it just becomes a matter of principle at a certain point.

If you were dying from overload in pvp, both you and the sorc were doing it wrong btw. Overload wasn't imbalanced; in fact it was inferior dps in trials. but it shined in vmsa, and we needed that when comparing to a stam sorc.

It's a combination of things though you see? Over time, we have taken a beating (especially in pve) because of all these nerfs. I am taking a break not from the game, but from my sorc- who was my favorite to play. Not a knee-jerk reaction you see, but rather an apathetic sigh of resignation.

Sorcs are still good, I could still be fearsome with mine, but the amount of input required for the result is pointless when I could just switch to a stam sorc or a dk.

TreeHugger1

SnubbS wrote: »

Magsorc will end up being the meta Mag build. Even with the curse change.

What we might see is maybe templars and dks who use frost staff,heavy armor, minor magicka steal and EoTs.

kadar

Clarkieson wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Lists Mines as an ability that Sorcs have "lost effective use of..."

Wat.

Vampire, mist form, eat all the mines with reduced damage and no cc, no more mines

I mean.... Great. Ya. Mines have counters, just like everything. Yet contrary to what the OP believes they remain an extremely effective skill especially against Stam builds. We know this. They don't belong on a list of ineffective Sorc skills any more than negate would.

darthsithis

Mines are fine but I really think people who love pve endgame are upset, and that skill is never used unfortunately.

Of course you are right though, mines are great in duels pretty objectively.

MrSinister213

The overload nerf I cannot understand. Magic Sorc in vMA is well below our stam counterparts. PvP nerfs over the last few patches I can understand at least. Magic Sorc in a zerg is overpowered. So solo/small scale players like me and you get the shaft. At least its understandable. Regardless, I will be playing Camelot Unchained beta very soon, this game is not my problem anymore.

Pixel_Zealot

@covenant_merchant

I understand you're not happy about the nerf, as I'm also a little upset as I just started really getting into Sorc.

The main reason I wanted to get into Sorc was that my Stamina toons are useless. Like 6-9kST useless. So I don't blame them for evening things out.

Too many dungeons have been finished with me just trying to keep up with the mage thats tanking, healing, and killing anything and everything under a minute.

darthsithis

Pixel_Zealot wrote: »

@covenant_merchant

I understand you're not happy about the nerf, as I'm also a little upset as I just started really getting into Sorc.

The main reason I wanted to get into Sorc was that my Stamina toons are useless. Like 6-9kST useless. So I don't blame them for evening things out.

Too many dungeons have been finished with me just trying to keep up with the mage thats tanking, healing, and killing anything and everything under a minute.

haha as long as I can still be a dungeon hero I'll be content enough to make it work. You've inspired me to just deal with it and keep at it. Srsly.

I flipped, but sorcs are still great in the right hands. Just some truly baffling decisions on ZoS' upcoming patch.

I can't say it enough, don't make legitimate pvp balancing put such an unnecessary strain on pve. Srsly wards are cut in half in pvp, so why can't proc sets crit in pve? But I'm beating a dead horse clanfear now...

Lylith

darthsithis wrote: »

Pixel_Zealot wrote: »

@covenant_merchant

I understand you're not happy about the nerf, as I'm also a little upset as I just started really getting into Sorc.

The main reason I wanted to get into Sorc was that my Stamina toons are useless. Like 6-9kST useless. So I don't blame them for evening things out.

Too many dungeons have been finished with me just trying to keep up with the mage thats tanking, healing, and killing anything and everything under a minute.

haha as long as I can still be a dungeon hero I'll be content enough to make it work. You've inspired me to just deal with it and keep at it. Srsly.

I flipped, but sorcs are still great in the right hands. Just some truly baffling decisions on ZoS' upcoming patch.

I can't say it enough, don't make legitimate pvp balancing put such an unnecessary strain on pve. Srsly wards are cut in half in pvp, so why can't proc sets crit in pve? But I'm beating a dead horse clanfear now...

if it was 'legitimate pvp balancing' to begin with.

it isn't. it's not good for pvanything.

darthsithis

I was trying to give the benefit of the doubt to those who felt it necessary to make the changes lol.

Wollust

Reminds me of how they kept nerfing magDK for one patch after another till it was almost non existent.
But then again, I'd suggest trying the changes out on the PTS first before complaining.

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

The title of this thread is magicka sorc, not stamina sorc.

Genius...

it's not just templars it's sorcerers both stamina and magicka.
as well as stamina templars and magicka templars.
all the same. you guys dominate PvP.

Aren't you a stamblade?
Pretty bold trying to QQ about other classes here tbh.

pattyLtd

I wont quit the game probably but i really give up on ever seeing balance or things gettign better.
It almost looks like they are just trolling us they really need a better combat designer or whatever its called.

Nerf overliad is just *** and the best players in the game like voah telling us here that its bad for dps as it is right now already kinda proves it.

I really hope a new game will come out for me and my friends to enjoy enough is enough.

darthsithis

^youre right. Maybe the new destro passives and curse might make certain things work better! Maybe the pet will get me a flawless vma run lol. Big heal, 8% max health (which is huge), he tanks, and my ward keeps him alive.

500 overload sucks though, because I think ppl don't realize how fast it goes- plus you have to save some for the third bar.

Biro123

Not too happy..

Currently all of the curse descriptions say that you can only have one curse active at a time - so I doubt very much that you'll be able to stack 2 of the new version.. If anything it looks like they really, really want people using pets and daedric prey. I hate pets.

DW sorc builds will be obsolete... Can only burst every 6 seconds (not to mention how often that burst fails due to reflect/dodge etc on the frag) - and no spammable (except resto light attacks - yay)..

Destro staff will be the ONLY choice (zos pushing that with force pulse buff).. I really don't like the animation + dull humming sound of force pulse when compared to the lightning and 'crack' of a burst with fury/curse/frags..

I like sorc - and the main thing that attracted me was the animations/sounds and playstyle of 'setting up the burst' - which let to my current DW build which I've farmed and honed for a while now. Dammit I started the game with magsorc - then switched factions as I found a decent guild for PVP - so started again - but messed up the character choice, not realising I'd picked a stam race - so switched to stam-sorc.. got him levelled up then finally decided to make another magsorc.. I've only had this one at lvl50 and competetive in PVP for a few months now - and its back to the drawing board again..... Dammit!

So, what's my options... I guess I could go the direction they want with pets/crushing shock - but that doesn't work too well for open-world PVP - which is what I like playing..

Blackrose/frost staff magicka tank-sorc? I guess its a kind of option.. not sure how it would work yet - just feels like blocking and dmg shields don't have great synergy.. And its relying on force pulse.. yuk.

Or will everyone be forced into the VERY vanilla destro/resto lich/spinners(or BSW)/infernal setup... yay diversity!

Still, at least my solo dungeoning build gets some nice big buffs.. so I can get undaunted mettle quicker for my DW setup.. oh wait..

Massive_Stain

jarydf wrote: »

I don't get it. It is like they are fighting the imbalances of years ago, buff pets and nerf overload. ZOS you have already done this.

More than 7 overloads in a row on a boss is too many?Not enough people were using the destro ultimate exclusovely, you want all of us to use it?

The destro heavy attack change is bewildering. Veli Curse change looks like it is designed to remove the last MagSorc from Cryo. What happens there? The only rotation allowed is Fury into crushing shock spam into Frags with no VCurse?

If you are a MagSorc you have to run 2 toggled pets, spam shields and force pulse like a manic hope to proc frags and finish off with the destro ultimate. That is your lot.

The more I think about it the madder I get.

Lets be honest while being honest - destro staff ultimate gets a nerf too. I believe its 20% on both morphs? Correct me if I'm wrong, as I'm still reeling from the Overload nerf.

SublimeSparo

Massive_Stain wrote: »

jarydf wrote: »

I don't get it. It is like they are fighting the imbalances of years ago, buff pets and nerf overload. ZOS you have already done this.

More than 7 overloads in a row on a boss is too many?Not enough people were using the destro ultimate exclusovely, you want all of us to use it?

The destro heavy attack change is bewildering. Veli Curse change looks like it is designed to remove the last MagSorc from Cryo. What happens there? The only rotation allowed is Fury into crushing shock spam into Frags with no VCurse?

If you are a MagSorc you have to run 2 toggled pets, spam shields and force pulse like a manic hope to proc frags and finish off with the destro ultimate. That is your lot.

The more I think about it the madder I get.

Lets be honest while being honest - destro staff ultimate gets a nerd too. I believe its 20% on both morphs? Correct me if I'm wrong, as I'm still reeling from the Overload nerf.

The base destro ult got 5% nerf although for lightning staff users they technically get a 2.6% damage increase, potentially raising to around 10% due to passive changes

Mwnci

Aeladiir wrote: »

<snip>
It's weird how magicka was nerfed, especially since forums were full of "stamina nerf" demands ever since Thieves Guild (I think) came out.

I've noticed that in literally every single MMO I've ever played.

Players: Please nerf X, it's too strong against Y.
*Devs nerf Y*

Players: Please buff Y, it's far too weak against X.
*Devs buff X*

*Devs super proud and excited to give us their new changes*
Meanwhile..
*Every player: