Regarding magicka sorcs and nerfs

covenant_merchant

Just a reminder, magicka sorcs in PVP had lost the effective use of :

• detonation for a group fewer than 8-10 people
• dawnbreaker of might
• attribution of CP into Thaumaturge to benefit from the frags' proc "off-balance"
• the ability to escape (increased cost of reusing streak)
• shields and the subsequent ability to keep pressure on an enemy without having to spam shields like a monkey every 6 seconds
• mines : indirectly, since heavy armor has been buffed - mines can be easily tanked through and are nigh useless atm
• the ability to dual-wield due to the aforementioned nerfs

Now, we're losing :

• overload (maximum ultimate stack down to 500 from 1000 - so rip elegance + vMSA setup)
• Velocious Curse
• the use of frost staves for anything other than some hybrid tanking crap that will never work
• elemental drain magicka regen

Considering magicka dk will be heavily buffed in comparison, and stamina builds and procs suffer no nerfs, what's left for a magicka sorc out there?

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert Why? What's the logic behind this? Why do you feel magicka sorcs were still over-powered ? You aren't nerfing destro ulti that much but you have made specific class-based nerfs... Without even saying anything about Tremorscale or Viper or all the proc-stacking heavy armor tank/dd builds out there. I'm already struggling to kill someone with black rose + viper + tremorscale (not to mention that with the constant snare, escaping is out of the question).

So why ? Team, can you please do an ESO live where you explain what exactly prompts these nerfs?
"We have had a variety of feedback saying magicka sorcs are way too strong and decided, without checking with the few people still playing them, to nerf the f. out of their damage, sustain, and overall viability as a class." Something like that you know, to hold you up to it and judge you as people.

Having invested a lot of time in my magicka sorc, it's disheartening to see stamina builds remain untouched, nay buffed with black rose jewerly + reactive combos available via next patch changes, while magicka sorcs, who already struggle to kill one tanky ***, losing the little damage they had.

Aeladiir

Overload nerf literally killed my character. Lame. I mean, do they even realize that 500 ult is gone in, like, seconds? And it wasn't even strong in PvP - an Overload user is easily countered by so many different builds. Also, in PvE, non-Overload mag sorcs - to my knowledge -, already performed better than Overload users. I could live with all other changes, I guess, but this was a bit too drastic, imo.

It's weird how magicka was nerfed, especially since forums were full of "stamina nerf" demands ever since Thieves Guild (I think) came out.

SnubbS

Magsorc will end up being the meta Mag build. Even with the curse change.

Biro123

Not sure I understand the curse change. Is it saying it will go off in 6 secs then again 6 secs later? If that's true, it's gonna kill DW builds.. Or does it mean that it still goes off in 3.5 seconds then again 6 secs later (not too bad - but not great, I think).. ?

All I see is pet buffs and the curse change possibly pushing people to use the other morph that buffs pet dmg.. and crushing shock no longer reflecting.... Feels like the best builds may be staff/pet builds - like they want you to double-slot as many skills as possible... :-(

I don't think I'm very keen...

acw37162

I wonder if people actual read the patch notes.

Curse AOE goes off no matter what, now.
If you cast curse again with correct timing you will get basically double AOE procs every cast after the first one.
Go read the minor magic steal buff again at CP160 it's basicall plus 800 regen not ready to call hat a nerf till it's tested and some skills have AOE magic steal which in theory could proc on AOE skills it actually sounds quite strong.

jarydf

I don't get it. It is like they are fighting the imbalances of years ago, buff pets and nerf overload. ZOS you have already done this.

More than 7 overloads in a row on a boss is too many?Not enough people were using the destro ultimate exclusovely, you want all of us to use it?

The destro heavy attack change is bewildering. Veli Curse change looks like it is designed to remove the last MagSorc from Cryo. What happens there? The only rotation allowed is Fury into crushing shock spam into Frags with no VCurse?

If you are a MagSorc you have to run 2 toggled pets, spam shields and force pulse like a manic hope to proc frags and finish off with the destro ultimate. That is your lot.

The more I think about it the madder I get.

NBrookus

If you think magicka DKs got heavily buffed, you didn't read the same patch notes I did. We got diddly / squat. I do think update 13 will finally answer the question which class spec is on the very bottom of the tier, and magblades will probably win that award.

I'm not sure why they nerfed overload. With so many counters in PvP it wasn't really an issue there. With the buffs to destro staves, destro ult got a buff despite the technical 5% damage loss on the ult itself.

Curse might actually be a buff depending on how it works. But it does seem like the skill cap got increased and diversity decrease for mag sorcs -- while stam continues to be potato easy with the right stacking proc sets.

itsfatbass

Goes to show they really don't play the game. Stamina classes, specifically stamina sorc, are the GOD-MODE in all PvE content. But they bring out the nerf bats for magicka... very very apparent that they have no clue how this game REALLY works.

alexkdd99

You know I would be OK with everything if it wasn't for the ultimate nerf. I think it may be time to find something else, we will see.

I honestly don't see why they thought nerfing ultimate in half was a good idea. They just completely ruined the 1 thing sorcs had left. I love my sorc and have rolled with all the nerfs in the past year but this is getting ridiculous.

The only thing ultimate nerf hurts is overload, newsflash nobody is spamming overload in cyrodil, it is destro ultimate.

So aggravating. Was excited about housing and few new things but they ruined it with their idiotic "Balance" changes if we can even call it that.

spencer2361

I can't speak for pvp but someone having posted on the forum that a magsorc soloed vWGT probably didn't help the cause

SublimeSparo

spencer2361 wrote: »

I can't speak for pvp but someone having posted on the forum that a magsorc soloed vWGT probably didn't help the cause

Yea, @Vaoh he didn't use overload, or curse iirc

jarydf

NBrookus wrote: »

If you think magicka DKs got heavily buffed, you didn't read the same patch notes I did. We got diddly / squat. I do think update 13 will finally answer the question which class spec is on the very bottom of the tier, and magblades will probably win that award.

I was reading the patch notes looking for the MDK buff that was hinted at previously but if it is there I can't see it. The Dragons blood for instance fits in well with the other changes in that it just leaves me scratching my head.

The only thing that comes to mind is that ZOS is looking at data / stats for their insight rather than playing the game. They nerf things that in the stats are pulling large numbers rather than what actually matters when you are playing the game.

The other thing that the "frost tank" changes suggest is that they have a theoretical direction that they want for the game to go that we are not party to that will be forced. Even though I like the sorc pets I think they are a classic example of that. They want them to work so much they force them regardless of what the actual player base want.

Gothren

jarydf wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

If you think magicka DKs got heavily buffed, you didn't read the same patch notes I did. We got diddly / squat. I do think update 13 will finally answer the question which class spec is on the very bottom of the tier, and magblades will probably win that award.

I was reading the patch notes looking for the MDK buff that was hinted at previously but if it is there I can't see it. The Dragons blood for instance fits in well with the other changes in that it just leaves me scratching my head.

The only thing that comes to mind is that ZOS is looking at data / stats for their insight rather than playing the game. They nerf things that in the stats are pulling large numbers rather than what actually matters when you are playing the game.

The other thing that the "frost tank" changes suggest is that they have a theoretical direction that they want for the game to go that we are not party to that will be forced. Even though I like the sorc pets I think they are a classic example of that. They want them to work so much they force them regardless of what the actual player base want.

pets already do work i don't know where you have been. they needed a buff and they got it. no one is forced to do anything. don't like it? then don't slot the skills.

Clarkieson

Sorc op

Nerf Sorc

Nighblade op

Buff nightblade

And that is zenimax company policy

covenant_merchant

Gothren wrote: »

jarydf wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

If you think magicka DKs got heavily buffed, you didn't read the same patch notes I did. We got diddly / squat. I do think update 13 will finally answer the question which class spec is on the very bottom of the tier, and magblades will probably win that award.

I was reading the patch notes looking for the MDK buff that was hinted at previously but if it is there I can't see it. The Dragons blood for instance fits in well with the other changes in that it just leaves me scratching my head.

The only thing that comes to mind is that ZOS is looking at data / stats for their insight rather than playing the game. They nerf things that in the stats are pulling large numbers rather than what actually matters when you are playing the game.

The other thing that the "frost tank" changes suggest is that they have a theoretical direction that they want for the game to go that we are not party to that will be forced. Even though I like the sorc pets I think they are a classic example of that. They want them to work so much they force them regardless of what the actual player base want.

pets already do work i don't know where you have been. they needed a buff and they got it. no one is forced to do anything. don't like it? then don't slot the skills.

Sorcs are forced to move into the "pokemon trainer" direction. Yes, pets got buffs. But there was no need to nerf "non-pet" builds, which they did. Sorcs are losing more and more build diversity with every patch. Pets and negate bubbles will be the only things left.

Clarkieson

covenant_merchant wrote: »

Gothren wrote: »

jarydf wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

If you think magicka DKs got heavily buffed, you didn't read the same patch notes I did. We got diddly / squat. I do think update 13 will finally answer the question which class spec is on the very bottom of the tier, and magblades will probably win that award.

I was reading the patch notes looking for the MDK buff that was hinted at previously but if it is there I can't see it. The Dragons blood for instance fits in well with the other changes in that it just leaves me scratching my head.

The only thing that comes to mind is that ZOS is looking at data / stats for their insight rather than playing the game. They nerf things that in the stats are pulling large numbers rather than what actually matters when you are playing the game.

The other thing that the "frost tank" changes suggest is that they have a theoretical direction that they want for the game to go that we are not party to that will be forced. Even though I like the sorc pets I think they are a classic example of that. They want them to work so much they force them regardless of what the actual player base want.

pets already do work i don't know where you have been. they needed a buff and they got it. no one is forced to do anything. don't like it? then don't slot the skills.

Sorcs are forced to move into the "pokemon trainer" direction. Yes, pets got buffs. But there was no need to nerf "non-pet" builds, which they did. Sorcs are losing more and more build diversity with every patch. Pets and negate bubbles will be the only things left.

Remember that "play how you want" bullst that zenimax came out with?

Gilvoth

do you think it's fair that sorcerers and templars dominate in PvP with HUGE red circles around you all the time pulling out everyone and everything in stealth and then immediatly knock us down and spam crowd control us to death ?
i dont.

Dread_Viking

yeah my mag sorc is about to die!

covenant_merchant

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

do you think it's fair that sorcerers and templars dominate in PvP with HUGE red circles around you all the time pulling out everyone and everything in stealth and then immediatly knock us down and spam crowd control us to death ?
i dont.

I do? If you're stupid enough to get farmed by a zergball like you described, you probably deserve your death. If anything, the next patch will push players to band up in groups of 10-12 even more, since sorc will be useless alone. The curse nerf doesn't hurt organised raids with destro ultis, hell you don't even slot curse such groups but go for aoe instead. It hurts smallscalers, as everything zos seems to do these days.

And yes infernal guardian is bugged, you're right about that and it should be fixed. Otherwise, I don't see your point. Sorc will still be viable in group with encase spam + destro ulti/negate + streak. You'll just be unable to play it in anything other than an organised group, which according to some wonderful and wise youtubers are already the source of all the lag.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-IACAVyjOo

*cough* hypocrite *cough*

Gilvoth

covenant_merchant wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

do you think it's fair that sorcerers and templars dominate in PvP with HUGE red circles around you all the time pulling out everyone and everything in stealth and then immediatly knock us down and spam crowd control us to death ?
i dont.

...... you probably deserve your death. If anything, .....
*cough* hypocrite *cough*

below is my responce to your comment, but it is a copy of someone elses comment im just repeating it.

CyrusArya wrote: »

In my honest opinion, having played the game since 1.6, stamina sorc on live is the most OP class I have ever seen holistically speaking. This is considering pvp and pve. In the former it has the best mobility, best damage, and best sustain..heavy armor dot builds in particular. In the latter it has some of the highest dps and also surge is just insanely strong in PvE. Stam sorc claims the title of best open world/solo pvp class, the best stamina class in groups, and also the highest VMA scores to date.

This isn't even a matter of opinions at this point...objectively stamina sorc is the strongest class in the game and youd have to be really biased to claim it is balanced and undeserving of some kind of nerf.

Minalan

The title of this thread is magicka sorc, not stamina sorc.

Genius...

Gothren

covenant_merchant wrote: »

Gothren wrote: »

jarydf wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

If you think magicka DKs got heavily buffed, you didn't read the same patch notes I did. We got diddly / squat. I do think update 13 will finally answer the question which class spec is on the very bottom of the tier, and magblades will probably win that award.

I was reading the patch notes looking for the MDK buff that was hinted at previously but if it is there I can't see it. The Dragons blood for instance fits in well with the other changes in that it just leaves me scratching my head.

The only thing that comes to mind is that ZOS is looking at data / stats for their insight rather than playing the game. They nerf things that in the stats are pulling large numbers rather than what actually matters when you are playing the game.

The other thing that the "frost tank" changes suggest is that they have a theoretical direction that they want for the game to go that we are not party to that will be forced. Even though I like the sorc pets I think they are a classic example of that. They want them to work so much they force them regardless of what the actual player base want.

pets already do work i don't know where you have been. they needed a buff and they got it. no one is forced to do anything. don't like it? then don't slot the skills.

Sorcs are forced to move into the "pokemon trainer" direction. Yes, pets got buffs. But there was no need to nerf "non-pet" builds, which they did. Sorcs are losing more and more build diversity with every patch. Pets and negate bubbles will be the only things left.

maybe you should "force yourself" to be a better player? mag sorcs got buffs on all fronts. why you are blind to this idk. im not helping you. please come to cyrodill. i need your ap.

Gilvoth

Minalan wrote: »

The title of this thread is magicka sorc, not stamina sorc.

Genius...

it's not just templars it's sorcerers both stamina and magicka.
as well as stamina templars and magicka templars.
all the same. you guys dominate PvP.

Clarkieson

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

The title of this thread is magicka sorc, not stamina sorc.

Genius...

it's not just templars it's sorcerers both stamina and magicka.
as well as stamina templars and magicka templars.
all the same. you guys dominate PvP.

Pvp balance right there

Now you will see more nightblades and more cancer templars once the 2 malubeth, 5 reactive, 5 black rose build gets about

Balance

austinwalter87ub17_ESO

NBrookus wrote: »

If you think magicka DKs got heavily buffed, you didn't read the same patch notes I did. We got diddly / squat. I do think update 13 will finally answer the question which class spec is on the very bottom of the tier, and magblades will probably win that award.

I'm not sure why they nerfed overload. With so many counters in PvP it wasn't really an issue there. With the buffs to destro staves, destro ult got a buff despite the technical 5% damage loss on the ult itself.

Curse might actually be a buff depending on how it works. But it does seem like the skill cap got increased and diversity decrease for mag sorcs -- while stam continues to be potato easy with the right stacking proc sets.

As someone with a Magick DK. With the dragons blood change you can stack sun armor and burning spell weave and have infinite sustain.

And lava whip will now hit really hard.

covenant_merchant

Gothren wrote: »

covenant_merchant wrote: »

Gothren wrote: »

jarydf wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

If you think magicka DKs got heavily buffed, you didn't read the same patch notes I did. We got diddly / squat. I do think update 13 will finally answer the question which class spec is on the very bottom of the tier, and magblades will probably win that award.

I was reading the patch notes looking for the MDK buff that was hinted at previously but if it is there I can't see it. The Dragons blood for instance fits in well with the other changes in that it just leaves me scratching my head.

The only thing that comes to mind is that ZOS is looking at data / stats for their insight rather than playing the game. They nerf things that in the stats are pulling large numbers rather than what actually matters when you are playing the game.

The other thing that the "frost tank" changes suggest is that they have a theoretical direction that they want for the game to go that we are not party to that will be forced. Even though I like the sorc pets I think they are a classic example of that. They want them to work so much they force them regardless of what the actual player base want.

pets already do work i don't know where you have been. they needed a buff and they got it. no one is forced to do anything. don't like it? then don't slot the skills.

Sorcs are forced to move into the "pokemon trainer" direction. Yes, pets got buffs. But there was no need to nerf "non-pet" builds, which they did. Sorcs are losing more and more build diversity with every patch. Pets and negate bubbles will be the only things left.

maybe you should "force yourself" to be a better player? mag sorcs got buffs on all fronts. why you are blind to this idk. im not helping you. please come to cyrodill. i need your ap.

How did sorc get buffed? Please explain to me, oh wise man. And I have 146 days of playtime on my magsorc, am General (though ranks don't mean much), and would consider myself a decent sorc. @amanozako if you're PC EU, would love to duel you. But yeah, now that you've mentioned it, what are the buffs you speak of? Or are you even reading the same patch notes?

Clarkieson

covenant_merchant wrote: »

Gothren wrote: »

covenant_merchant wrote: »

Gothren wrote: »

jarydf wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

If you think magicka DKs got heavily buffed, you didn't read the same patch notes I did. We got diddly / squat. I do think update 13 will finally answer the question which class spec is on the very bottom of the tier, and magblades will probably win that award.

I was reading the patch notes looking for the MDK buff that was hinted at previously but if it is there I can't see it. The Dragons blood for instance fits in well with the other changes in that it just leaves me scratching my head.

The only thing that comes to mind is that ZOS is looking at data / stats for their insight rather than playing the game. They nerf things that in the stats are pulling large numbers rather than what actually matters when you are playing the game.

The other thing that the "frost tank" changes suggest is that they have a theoretical direction that they want for the game to go that we are not party to that will be forced. Even though I like the sorc pets I think they are a classic example of that. They want them to work so much they force them regardless of what the actual player base want.

pets already do work i don't know where you have been. they needed a buff and they got it. no one is forced to do anything. don't like it? then don't slot the skills.

Sorcs are forced to move into the "pokemon trainer" direction. Yes, pets got buffs. But there was no need to nerf "non-pet" builds, which they did. Sorcs are losing more and more build diversity with every patch. Pets and negate bubbles will be the only things left.

maybe you should "force yourself" to be a better player? mag sorcs got buffs on all fronts. why you are blind to this idk. im not helping you. please come to cyrodill. i need your ap.

How did sorc get buffed? Please explain to me, oh wise man. And I have 146 days of playtime on my magsorc, am General (though ranks don't mean much), and would consider myself a decent sorc. @amanozako if you're PC EU, would love to duel you. But yeah, now that you've mentioned it, what are the buffs you speak of? Or are you even reading the same patch notes?

But dem pets tho

You will now be able to wipe zergs with a clanfear and solo hm vmol with twightlight

Oh wait.....

austinwalter87ub17_ESO

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

do you think it's fair that sorcerers and templars dominate in PvP with HUGE red circles around you all the time pulling out everyone and everything in stealth and then immediatly knock us down and spam crowd control us to death ?
i dont.

templars dominate in PVP? Hahanababahabab.

Zergs of radiant oppression isn't dominating pvp. Never was.

covenant_merchant

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

The title of this thread is magicka sorc, not stamina sorc.

Genius...

it's not just templars it's sorcerers both stamina and magicka.
as well as stamina templars and magicka templars.
all the same. you guys dominate PvP.

lolololol the fact that you consider magicka sorcs to be on par with stamina ones, and stamina templars to be relevant makes me wonder. Did you die against a magsorc or stamplar and are now pissed or what? Magicka sorcs are useful in zergballs as I said. Otherwise, you see very little of them. And magicka templars will lose the only non-gap closing available stun they had, so "dominating" pvp ain't really the word you're looking for.

Vaoh

spencer2361 wrote: »

I can't speak for pvp but someone having posted on the forum that a magsorc soloed vWGT probably didn't help the cause

SublimeSparo wrote: »

spencer2361 wrote: »

I can't speak for pvp but someone having posted on the forum that a magsorc soloed vWGT probably didn't help the cause

Yea, @Vaoh he didn't use overload, or curse iirc

They nerfed Overload and Curse, neither of which I ever used in solo content. Overload is weak for DPS and mainly serves as a third bar for extra buffs.

What they DID do is buff pets (which I use) and Elemental Drain (which I use).

I don't really want to talk about the state of ESO next patch. It may potentially be the most imbalanced we have seen this game.

covenant_merchant

Clarkieson wrote: »

covenant_merchant wrote: »

Gothren wrote: »

covenant_merchant wrote: »

Gothren wrote: »

jarydf wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

If you think magicka DKs got heavily buffed, you didn't read the same patch notes I did. We got diddly / squat. I do think update 13 will finally answer the question which class spec is on the very bottom of the tier, and magblades will probably win that award.

I was reading the patch notes looking for the MDK buff that was hinted at previously but if it is there I can't see it. The Dragons blood for instance fits in well with the other changes in that it just leaves me scratching my head.

The only thing that comes to mind is that ZOS is looking at data / stats for their insight rather than playing the game. They nerf things that in the stats are pulling large numbers rather than what actually matters when you are playing the game.

The other thing that the "frost tank" changes suggest is that they have a theoretical direction that they want for the game to go that we are not party to that will be forced. Even though I like the sorc pets I think they are a classic example of that. They want them to work so much they force them regardless of what the actual player base want.

pets already do work i don't know where you have been. they needed a buff and they got it. no one is forced to do anything. don't like it? then don't slot the skills.

Sorcs are forced to move into the "pokemon trainer" direction. Yes, pets got buffs. But there was no need to nerf "non-pet" builds, which they did. Sorcs are losing more and more build diversity with every patch. Pets and negate bubbles will be the only things left.

maybe you should "force yourself" to be a better player? mag sorcs got buffs on all fronts. why you are blind to this idk. im not helping you. please come to cyrodill. i need your ap.

How did sorc get buffed? Please explain to me, oh wise man. And I have 146 days of playtime on my magsorc, am General (though ranks don't mean much), and would consider myself a decent sorc. @amanozako if you're PC EU, would love to duel you. But yeah, now that you've mentioned it, what are the buffs you speak of? Or are you even reading the same patch notes?

But dem pets tho

You will now be able to wipe zergs with a clanfear and solo hm vmol with twightlight

Oh wait.....

Pets will never be viable for open world PVP. IC, why not? But open world, there's too many variables, and even with increased resistances, your pets can easily be dealt with and reconjuring takes 2 seconds, 2 seconds which you won't have while being snared and bashed, or CCed by enemies.
Not to mention that not everyone likes that playstyle. I have a lot of respect for successful pet mages, but they are few and in between. I personally dislike having to lose 2 slots per bar and playing with necropotence at the cost of sustain.