Tan9oSuccka wrote: »I agree. "Play as you want" only applies to Solo content.
Hybrids are pretty worthless in Group content.
Also, clever DPS with medium armor, and 19K health: Sorry Bro, you are not a Tank.
HatchetHaro wrote: »I'm pretty sure that @HatchetHaro is specifically referring to people running vet trials. (I hope he's only referring to that.) Yes, the meta will help a raid complete a trial with the highest possible score... but to discount people theorycrafting and trying new builds would be ridiculous. That's how the meta comes to exist, afterall. Theorycrafting.
However, if someone is running a hybrid build that's not even close to the meta- I won't kick them from a group. (unless they really, really suck) You can "play as you want" with 99% of this game. So, do so and enjoy it. I'm damn sure not wearing Tava's on my tank... but I'm also not going to run a vet trial.
The meta will, as it always does, change. Don't get chained down by it.
Actually referring to people running dungeons on a Magplar with points into health and stamina, full heavy armor and 2H on both bars. Yeah, that.
Also by "meta" I'm not talking about build metas; I'm talking about role metas, and that pretty much remains the same most of the time: 1 tank, 1 healer, and 2 dps. Literally built right into the group finder. I'll just edit that into my post since most people don't seem to be able to grasp that.
Funkopotamus wrote: »Tan9oSuccka wrote: »I agree. "Play as you want" only applies to Solo content.
Hybrids are pretty worthless in Group content.
Also, clever DPS with medium armor, and 19K health: Sorry Bro, you are not a Tank.
The problem with Casual Scrolls Online
is that this game doesn't know what it wants to be... Is it a single player RPG or a MMO.. Just like the point of this topic. The game is trying to be a hybrid and failing at doing either one very well.. This game suffers from people thinking it is skyrim with friends.
The trouble is that 80% of this games content is WAY to easy and allows a player to "Play how they want" and then when those players try the other 20% of the game with those "Skyrim with friends" character builds they get the -Blank- stomped out of them and the group.
We cannot blame the players as ZOS has hand held the player base through that 80% and allowed players to run through the game 1-2 shotting everything and then flip the script on those players with dungeons.
It is not the players fault it is a serious designed flaw and the fault of the developers. All we can do is try to inform the players and try to help them. At least all of my guild members do this.
Funkopotamus wrote: »Tan9oSuccka wrote: »I agree. "Play as you want" only applies to Solo content.
Hybrids are pretty worthless in Group content.
Also, clever DPS with medium armor, and 19K health: Sorry Bro, you are not a Tank.
The problem with Casual Scrolls Online
is that this game doesn't know what it wants to be... Is it a single player RPG or a MMO.. Just like the point of this topic. The game is trying to be a hybrid and failing at doing either one very well.. This game suffers from people thinking it is skyrim with friends.
The trouble is that 80% of this games content is WAY to easy and allows a player to "Play how they want" and then when those players try the other 20% of the game with those "Skyrim with friends" character builds they get the -Blank- stomped out of them and the group.
We cannot blame the players as ZOS has hand held the player base through that 80% and allowed players to run through the game 1-2 shotting everything and then flip the script on those players with dungeons.
It is not the players fault it is a serious designed flaw and the fault of the developers. All we can do is try to inform the players and try to help them. At least all of my guild members do this.
QFT
Funny enough much of the "toxicity" certain people keep bemoaning is really just clashes arising from conflicting player mindsets. Often there isn't even someone in 'the wrong', more just players' desire for radically differing gameplay experiences.
Yes, this difference in mindset has played itself out many times across many titles. It's been described once as beating the game v.s. playing the game. One side wants to enjoy the game and the experience. The other just wants to "win", whatever that means, and don't give a crap about the game itself.
I disagree with the assessment that both sides are equally at fault for the toxicity, however. Often the toxicity originates from the hyper-competitive and e-peen obsessed among us when others fail to meet their standards. Naturally, these people are almost exclusively on the "beat the game" side. Sorry, but it's even right there in some of the words they use as derogatory remarks to describe those that disagree with them. "Casual" and "carebear", for example. Implying that such people are much more even tempered than themselves.
FortheloveofKrist wrote: »Or you could just be patient and realize you are playing in a publicly accessible Group Finder and that...wait for it...the world doesn't revolve around you.
Apres moi, le deluge...of salt...
Uhm.. No, you are the one that misses the point. The actual problem here is loltard players that don't know what the heck they are doing. I.e. they lack skill. The problem isn't hybrid builds. I agree to some extent with you that if people Q for vet dungeons, they better make sure to pull their weight, or they will put the group down. But to put the problem on hybrid builds is a wrong. It is the people that are incapable of correctly making an effective hybrid build for vet dungeons that are the problem.HatchetHaro wrote: »SunfireKnight86 wrote: »Then you aren't talking about builds, you're talking about skills. And you aren't even really talking about skill, you're crying because you PUG and don't get to breeze through a dungeon in record time every time.
Get over it. Not me, not the next guy or gal, nobody in this whole game is here to cater to you. Nobody. If you don't like it, play with your mommy, or daddy, or whoever it is that usually wipes your sniveling nose. Any expectations you have for other people are self-prescribed. They can do dungeons if they want. Some of them can be tiaght, some of them can't. If you don't like it, you are the one who needs to not PUG, not them.By putting this toxic garbage out in the community, all you're doing is making sure new people don't get to play with your toy. That doesn't make you "good", it makes you a pissbaby. You are not the *** fun police.
Once more, you prove yourself to be incapable of understanding the point I'm trying to get at.
HatchetHaro wrote: »FortheloveofKrist wrote: »Or you could just be patient and realize you are playing in a publicly accessible Group Finder and that...wait for it...the world doesn't revolve around you.
Apres moi, le deluge...of salt...
There is a story behind this, and it involves a full 5 hour debate in TS and a lot of salt. At least you're right about the salt. Problem-in-question is a guildie, btw, so you're not even right in the "Group Finder" department.
HatchetHaro wrote: »EDIT: By "meta" I am not referring to build metas. Build whatever the heck you want, just pull your weight. The meta I'm talking about is role metas, the exact meta that is literally coded into the group finder: 1 tank, 1 healer, 2 dps.
As for hybrid builds, I'm talking about multi-role builds, but resource-hybrid builds are still applicable in here, especially if you're a dps, unless you're running Pelinal's and know what you are doing.
Putting this edit in since many people misinterpreted this post as an advocate for cookie-cutter "meta" builds. That will be a topic for another time.
Funkopotamus wrote: »The problem with Casual Scrolls Online
Funkopotamus wrote: »Tan9oSuccka wrote: »I agree. "Play as you want" only applies to Solo content.
Hybrids are pretty worthless in Group content.
Also, clever DPS with medium armor, and 19K health: Sorry Bro, you are not a Tank.
The problem with Casual Scrolls Online
is that this game doesn't know what it wants to be... Is it a single player RPG or a MMO.. Just like the point of this topic. The game is trying to be a hybrid and failing at doing either one very well.. This game suffers from people thinking it is skyrim with friends.
The trouble is that 80% of this games content is WAY to easy and allows a player to "Play how they want" and then when those players try the other 20% of the game with those "Skyrim with friends" character builds they get the -Blank- stomped out of them and the group.
We cannot blame the players as ZOS has hand held the player base through that 80% and allowed players to run through the game 1-2 shotting everything and then flip the script on those players with dungeons.
It is not the players fault it is a serious designed flaw and the fault of the developers. All we can do is try to inform the players and try to help them. At least all of my guild members do this.
QFT
Funny enough much of the "toxicity" certain people keep bemoaning is really just clashes arising from conflicting player mindsets. Often there isn't even someone in 'the wrong', more just players' desire for radically differing gameplay experiences.
Yes, this difference in mindset has played itself out many times across many titles. It's been described once as beating the game v.s. playing the game. One side wants to enjoy the game and the experience. The other just wants to "win", whatever that means, and don't give a crap about the game itself.
I disagree with the assessment that both sides are equally at fault for the toxicity, however. Often the toxicity originates from the hyper-competitive and e-peen obsessed among us when others fail to meet their standards. Naturally, these people are almost exclusively on the "beat the game" side. Sorry, but it's even right there in some of the words they use as derogatory remarks to describe those that disagree with them. "Casual" and "carebear", for example. Implying that such people are much more even tempered than themselves.
HatchetHaro wrote: »FortheloveofKrist wrote: »Or you could just be patient and realize you are playing in a publicly accessible Group Finder and that...wait for it...the world doesn't revolve around you.
Apres moi, le deluge...of salt...
There is a story behind this, and it involves a full 5 hour debate in TS and a lot of salt. At least you're right about the salt. Problem-in-question is a guildie, btw, so you're not even right in the "Group Finder" department.
So.... basically OP got on forums to rage about a guildie.... that's sad in and of itself.HatchetHaro wrote: »EDIT: By "meta" I am not referring to build metas. Build whatever the heck you want, just pull your weight. The meta I'm talking about is role metas, the exact meta that is literally coded into the group finder: 1 tank, 1 healer, 2 dps.
As for hybrid builds, I'm talking about multi-role builds, but resource-hybrid builds are still applicable in here, especially if you're a dps, unless you're running Pelinal's and know what you are doing.
Putting this edit in since many people misinterpreted this post as an advocate for cookie-cutter "meta" builds. That will be a topic for another time.
meta roles means next to nothing in pledges. They are just too easy for most good players I know to care about having dedicated roles. I cant even remember the last time i ran a dungeon with guildies where at least one person wasn't testing a new character or build or it was simply 3-4 dps. That being said, my personal pet peeve is "veteran" players who want to spec so focused into dps for dungeons that they lack even enough survivability to be useful for rezzes if healer or other dps goes down.
From what I gathered it's simply that the guy either is fairly new and doesn't understand mechanics of the game and your group/you are raging because u wiped too often. If the guy was tanking ask him to put on a taunt and, if needed, just explain why. Raging during the dungeon, or worse, on forums about it isn't helping anyone.
How many times are you going to repeat this on the forums? My god...Wifeaggro13 wrote: »HatchetHaro wrote: »FortheloveofKrist wrote: »Or you could just be patient and realize you are playing in a publicly accessible Group Finder and that...wait for it...the world doesn't revolve around you.
Apres moi, le deluge...of salt...
There is a story behind this, and it involves a full 5 hour debate in TS and a lot of salt. At least you're right about the salt. Problem-in-question is a guildie, btw, so you're not even right in the "Group Finder" department.
So.... basically OP got on forums to rage about a guildie.... that's sad in and of itself.HatchetHaro wrote: »EDIT: By "meta" I am not referring to build metas. Build whatever the heck you want, just pull your weight. The meta I'm talking about is role metas, the exact meta that is literally coded into the group finder: 1 tank, 1 healer, 2 dps.
As for hybrid builds, I'm talking about multi-role builds, but resource-hybrid builds are still applicable in here, especially if you're a dps, unless you're running Pelinal's and know what you are doing.
Putting this edit in since many people misinterpreted this post as an advocate for cookie-cutter "meta" builds. That will be a topic for another time.
meta roles means next to nothing in pledges. They are just too easy for most good players I know to care about having dedicated roles. I cant even remember the last time i ran a dungeon with guildies where at least one person wasn't testing a new character or build or it was simply 3-4 dps. That being said, my personal pet peeve is "veteran" players who want to spec so focused into dps for dungeons that they lack even enough survivability to be useful for rezzes if healer or other dps goes down.
From what I gathered it's simply that the guy either is fairly new and doesn't understand mechanics of the game and your group/you are raging because u wiped too often. If the guy was tanking ask him to put on a taunt and, if needed, just explain why. Raging during the dungeon, or worse, on forums about it isn't helping anyone.
this is the inherent flaw in ZOS current game direction the game is just about DPS now. It doesn nothing for the new player to teach them how to play for trials and prepare. People develop knowledge and skills required for trials through the fourman dungeons . its bleeding the community faster then the VR increases.its a bad game direction to dumb the game down this much.Personally i think they are doing this because its easier cheaper and creates less balance issues . the Post Launch team of 2016 did a very poor job of making the game fun.
FortheloveofKrist wrote: »Or you could just be patient and realize you are playing in a publicly accessible Group Finder and that...wait for it...the world doesn't revolve around you.
Apres moi, le deluge...of salt...
SunfireKnight86 wrote: »HatchetHaro wrote: »SunfireKnight86 wrote: »This is such a load of ***. The whole myth of this game isn't that "play how you want" is bad advice, it's that metas don't matter outside of speed trials and emperor hunting. (And even then a skilled player can fudge metas)
A templar *** all over this elitist crap. I can heal through any dungeon, vet or normal, while just using Breath of Life and still put out 20-25k DPS with minimal effort. I can throw puncture, a few buffs, and heavy stamina stacked armor sets on in 1 second with gear swap and seamlessly tick over to tank with a minimal loss of DPS and huge gain to survivability. I can stack my bar correctly, throw on my DPS gear back on (same as my heal gear OMG YOU DON'T NEED SPC TO WIN?!) , and out DPS half the people I play with.
Stop. Just stop. This whole, "I'm so cool, I know meta!" *** is basement dweller level elitism. It serves no purpose other than to alienate new players. It's a half ass way to lord the fact that you've played longer over people who just want to enjoy the game, and it has no place in the community. None. Zero.
If you don't like the way people play, don't PUG. And if you can only run PvP and vet dungeons with the bleeding edge meta, get gud.
Of bloody course you can slot a burst heal and still do damage, but that's not the point. Guess what? So can I. I can put out 30k dps while maintaining a taunt on a boss and using Vigor to keep my teammates alive. Hurr dee durr. I can also literally press two keys and seamlessly swap to an endgame tanking build that brings buffs to the team like no tomorrow. Your example is invalid.
Sure thing, gear swap is a thing, but I'm not even talking about gear swap. I'm not even talking about people who know what they are doing. If you know what you are doing, whoop dee doo; do what you want since you can carry your weight!
Thing is, you are completely missing the point of my post. I am talking about the people who can't even do jack *** with their amazing hybrid builds. Again, the meta is there for a reason. If you're not even remotely good at anything pertaining to your role you should definitely stop what you're doing and stick with the meta until you know what you are doing. This "basement dweller level elitism" is tried and tested to be effective and foolproof, and being different does not mean that you're being useful. If you're useful, good, go ahead and be different all you want, just make sure you're carrying your weight. If you're not useful, well, you're not even close to the meta, because the meta makes sure that everyone is useful.
Another thing is that if they want to enjoy the game, then they shouldn't do dungeons, since it would simply just hinder the rest of the group's enjoyment of the game. Last I checked, 3 > 1. That 1 is going to be kicked if he insists on being a detriment to the team, and he can't do anything about it.
So, you stop. If you're so good, go ahead and solo vet dungeons, do it all by yourself; you don't need a team, after all.
Then you aren't talking about builds, you're talking about skill and knowledge. And you aren't even really talking about skill, you're crying because you PUG and don't get to breeze through a dungeon in record time every time.
Get over it. Not me, not the next guy or gal, nobody in this whole game is here to cater to you. Nobody. If you don't like it, play with your mommy, or daddy, or whoever it is that usually wipes your sniveling nose. Any expectations you have for other people are self-prescribed. They can do dungeons if they want. Some of them can be taught, some of them can't. If you don't like it, you are the one who needs to not PUG, not them. By putting this toxic garbage out in the community, all you're doing is making sure new people don't get to play with your toy. That doesn't make you "good", it makes you a pissbaby. You are not the *** fun police.
Funkopotamus wrote: »Tan9oSuccka wrote: »I agree. "Play as you want" only applies to Solo content.
Hybrids are pretty worthless in Group content.
Also, clever DPS with medium armor, and 19K health: Sorry Bro, you are not a Tank.
The problem with Casual Scrolls Online
is that this game doesn't know what it wants to be... Is it a single player RPG or a MMO.. Just like the point of this topic. The game is trying to be a hybrid and failing at doing either one very well.. This game suffers from people thinking it is skyrim with friends.
The trouble is that 80% of this games content is WAY to easy and allows a player to "Play how they want" and then when those players try the other 20% of the game with those "Skyrim with friends" character builds they get the -Blank- stomped out of them and the group.
We cannot blame the players as ZOS has hand held the player base through that 80% and allowed players to run through the game 1-2 shotting everything and then flip the script on those players with dungeons.
It is not the players fault it is a serious designed flaw and the fault of the developers. All we can do is try to inform the players and try to help them. At least all of my guild members do this.
Just a question. But doesnt Tank gear make a Tank?
I can swap between 3 gear Setups and do several roles, without changing anything else
Does that make me Bad?
Funkopotamus wrote: »Tan9oSuccka wrote: »I agree. "Play as you want" only applies to Solo content.
Hybrids are pretty worthless in Group content.
Also, clever DPS with medium armor, and 19K health: Sorry Bro, you are not a Tank.
The problem with Casual Scrolls Online
is that this game doesn't know what it wants to be... Is it a single player RPG or a MMO.. Just like the point of this topic. The game is trying to be a hybrid and failing at doing either one very well.. This game suffers from people thinking it is skyrim with friends.
The trouble is that 80% of this games content is WAY to easy and allows a player to "Play how they want" and then when those players try the other 20% of the game with those "Skyrim with friends" character builds they get the -Blank- stomped out of them and the group.
We cannot blame the players as ZOS has hand held the player base through that 80% and allowed players to run through the game 1-2 shotting everything and then flip the script on those players with dungeons.
It is not the players fault it is a serious designed flaw and the fault of the developers. All we can do is try to inform the players and try to help them. At least all of my guild members do this.
QFT
Funny enough much of the "toxicity" certain people keep bemoaning is really just clashes arising from conflicting player mindsets. Often there isn't even someone in 'the wrong', more just players' desire for radically differing gameplay experiences.
Yes, this difference in mindset has played itself out many times across many titles. It's been described once as beating the game v.s. playing the game. One side wants to enjoy the game and the experience. The other just wants to "win", whatever that means, and don't give a crap about the game itself.
I disagree with the assessment that both sides are equally at fault for the toxicity, however. Often the toxicity originates from the hyper-competitive and e-peen obsessed among us when others fail to meet their standards. Naturally, these people are almost exclusively on the "beat the game" side. Sorry, but it's even right there in some of the words they use as derogatory remarks to describe those that disagree with them. "Casual" and "carebear", for example. Implying that such people are much more even tempered than themselves.
JkahrrRadnar wrote: »Question: You do realize that that many people play ESO simply to have fun?
I don't know the context of your rant, but if, at it's base, this is another 'Noobs are ruining my experience, I wish everyone that's not as awesome as me was just banned from the game' thread then please just... find something else to do.