Vok Cor | "True PvP Tanking" | Medium Scale Montage

Lexxypwns

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

Knew the hate would flow for this title lol.

I know I'm not a healer because my heals aren't big. I know I'm not a dps because my damage is low. However I do know that I run snares, roots, stuns, damage debuffs and healing debuffs all which protect my group from getting overwhelmed and allow them to pick and choose when they want to engage. To me, that is the definition of a tank just as much as soaking damage is.

I purposely included fights with organized groups (vanzan, the DC group on the tower etc.) To show how a tank can help when groups are taught to ignore the tank.

I would highly question the effectiveness of a tank by your standards in most of the situations I have in the video. In what way would a tank that holds block be effective in that last fight? What is the point of out living your group if you don't help?

Do you know what organized groups call tanks that just hold block and walk into the middle of you hoping that you will attack them and not the 30 squishies behind them?
They call them out of combat ulti gen.

Tank is opponent DPS black hole, it doesn't matter how does he eats damage - by spamming shields, dodging or staying in block. If you can't survive under pressure by yourself - you're not a tank.

So if it doesn't matter how he eats damage... Then wouldn't debuffing healing, debuffing damage, immobilizing and snaring opponents to negate the damage done to himself and group stack up in the same column?

And if you're really gonna keep dogging on him for dying in that last clip... At least be rational and understand that even in the clip you linked all it takes is the same amount of people on you in a resource tower as vir's clip and one fear and that tank is rip as well.

Healing debuff reduces DPS? ok.

Not my clip, once again. And he does get cc'ed, not by CC immunity cooldown, but not rare.

A DPS who has to shield or move out of damage, because they can't get heals, isn't contributing significant damage against your group.

ssewallb14_ESO

Ishammael wrote: »

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

Although I think Core was very effective in his role in this video, I have a hard time calling this "tanking." This is a disruptor build, not a tank. I actually run the same gear setup in group, he's debuffing the groups healing to almost nothing when his standard is down, and well as providing CC, damage debuffs, and interrupts. It's a really strong setup.

A tank is more about pulling aggro and survival under high pressure than this type of build.

The merits of either playstyle have been discussed quite a bit, but it's disingenuous to call this "true" tanking, especially when it's debatable whether or not this is even tanking.

Leo, apparently you're a disruptor, not tank.
Should have consulted with ssewallb14_ESO first before making that video and giving it a title.
Strongly recommend next time you make a video to poll the forums first to ensure you're using the correct nomenclature.

(PS. Cool video! )

I'm pointing out they are separate playstyles with different goals, as a lot of people seem to be unclear on that and the title implies that they are one and the same and only Core is doing it right.

But no, by all means anyone is free to come up with trollish titles, no prior input needed. I would've gone with "TRUE DK ROOT SPAM HEALER 1vX MONTAGE || BEST DK NA" Just don't get upset when people call you out in the comments.

Most_Awesome

lol that Unkillable Tank Vid was posted when Malubeth was bugged and completely OP

loki547

Ghostbane wrote: »

loki547 wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

Do you know what organized groups call tanks that just hold block and walk into the middle of you hoping that you will attack them and not the 30 squishies behind them?
They call them out of combat ulti gen.

Ironic since I have yet to encounter an "organized group" that doesn't constantly dump their ults on me for minutes at a time. I leave it to the imagination the terms I coin for said groups

I love seeing you, thank you for that ulti.

I seem to remember just the other day your crown/mano group couldn't resist ult dumping on me (albeit unsuccessfully) at Glade lumber. So again the simple laws of arithmetic dictate that if all the ult you generate off me is then used on me it's really not a net gain for you

ssewallb14_ESO

loki547 wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

Do you know what organized groups call tanks that just hold block and walk into the middle of you hoping that you will attack them and not the 30 squishies behind them?
They call them out of combat ulti gen.

Ironic since I have yet to encounter an "organized group" that doesn't constantly dump their ults on me for minutes at a time. I leave it to the imagination the terms I coin for said groups

There's one group that likes to full raid push my tank. Buff, prox, multiple negates, destro ults... It's really funny watching all that ult go down the toilet. That's why I don't mind getting light attacked now and then.

Sugaroverdose

Most_Awesome wrote: »

lol that Unkillable Tank Vid was posted when Malubeth was bugged and completely OP

Malubeth didn't make anyone unkillable: organised damage of 3 people was enough to wipe even 100% cancer malu+reactive trollplar who knows how to play.

Lexxypwns

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Most_Awesome wrote: »

lol that Unkillable Tank Vid was posted when Malubeth was bugged and completely OP

Malubeth didn't make anyone unkillable: organised damage of 3 people was enough to wipe even 100% cancer malu+reactive trollplar who knows how to play.

And yet you call OP out for dying to 20 people?

I think its safe to say you set your own strawman ablaze

Ghostbane

loki547 wrote: »

Ghostbane wrote: »

loki547 wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

Do you know what organized groups call tanks that just hold block and walk into the middle of you hoping that you will attack them and not the 30 squishies behind them?
They call them out of combat ulti gen.

Ironic since I have yet to encounter an "organized group" that doesn't constantly dump their ults on me for minutes at a time. I leave it to the imagination the terms I coin for said groups

I love seeing you, thank you for that ulti.

I seem to remember just the other day your crown/mano group couldn't resist ult dumping on me (albeit unsuccessfully) at Glade lumber. So again the simple laws of arithmetic dictate that if all the ult you generate off me is then used on me it's really not a net gain for you

I can't speak for plebs.

Sugaroverdose

Lexxypwns wrote: »

A DPS who has to shield or move out of damage, because they can't get heals, isn't contributing significant damage against your group.

Whole fight struggling from someone running fasalla(30% healing reduction)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhPn6TwSBqY
But you already have something counter this?

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Most_Awesome wrote: »

lol that Unkillable Tank Vid was posted when Malubeth was bugged and completely OP

Malubeth didn't make anyone unkillable: organised damage of 3 people was enough to wipe even 100% cancer malu+reactive trollplar who knows how to play.

And yet you call OP out for dying to 20 people?

I think its safe to say you set your own strawman ablaze

FFS, if you saying that you're a tank - than you must live at least half a minute without BoL spam, and he didn't get damage from 20 people(when they dies, there's only ~13 people on top), or other guy couldn't die

Magus

Can confirm, 11 people is considered an EP small man group.

Cool video, important group role putting out those roots and debuffs.

DKsUnite

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

A DPS who has to shield or move out of damage, because they can't get heals, isn't contributing significant damage against your group.

Whole fight struggling from someone running fasalla(30% healing reduction)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhPn6TwSBqY
But you already have something counter this?

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Most_Awesome wrote: »

lol that Unkillable Tank Vid was posted when Malubeth was bugged and completely OP

Malubeth didn't make anyone unkillable: organised damage of 3 people was enough to wipe even 100% cancer malu+reactive trollplar who knows how to play.

And yet you call OP out for dying to 20 people?

I think its safe to say you set your own strawman ablaze

FFS, if you saying that you're a tank - than you must live at least half a minute without BoL spam, and he didn't get damage from 20 people(when they dies, there's only ~13 people on top), or other guy couldn't die

i can tank 3 people until i log out, it's not that hard. Any competent DPS can tank 3 people easily. I dont have the luxury to tank 3 people though coz we fight groups all the time.

Here is your 30 seconds:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByuKwgvgrm4

Sugaroverdose

DKsUnite wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

A DPS who has to shield or move out of damage, because they can't get heals, isn't contributing significant damage against your group.

Whole fight struggling from someone running fasalla(30% healing reduction)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhPn6TwSBqY
But you already have something counter this?

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Most_Awesome wrote: »

lol that Unkillable Tank Vid was posted when Malubeth was bugged and completely OP

Malubeth didn't make anyone unkillable: organised damage of 3 people was enough to wipe even 100% cancer malu+reactive trollplar who knows how to play.

And yet you call OP out for dying to 20 people?

I think its safe to say you set your own strawman ablaze

FFS, if you saying that you're a tank - than you must live at least half a minute without BoL spam, and he didn't get damage from 20 people(when they dies, there's only ~13 people on top), or other guy couldn't die

i can tank 3 people until i log out, it's not that hard. Any competent DPS can tank 3 people easily. I dont have the luxury to tank 3 people though coz we fight groups all the time.

Here is your 30 seconds:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByuKwgvgrm4

Did you read quote and text above video?
Special upload for fans of "tanking"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHhFamhoXbY

Valencer

Do the organised raids on NA not have rapids slaves? Im trying to picture this kind of build helping in fights vs other guilds and I mostly just expect all the snares and roots to get removed by Retreating Maneuvers spam almost instantly and most of the benefits a build like this provides can be replicated by a sorcerer quite easily.

Negate completely shuts down heals instead of a "small" 30% healing received debuff while Encase can safely be used from medium-ish range unlike Talons. Maybe Im being too narrow-minded though.

Magus

Valencer wrote: »

Do the organised raids on NA not have rapids slaves? Im trying to picture this kind of build helping in fights vs other guilds and I mostly just expect all the snares and roots to get removed by Retreating Maneuvers spam almost instantly and most of the benefits a build like this provides can be replicated by a sorcerer quite easily.

Negate completely shuts down heals instead of a "small" 30% healing received debuff while Encase can safely be used from medium-ish range unlike Talons. Maybe Im being too narrow-minded though.

No, you are correct. They are farming pugs in the video - especially the last scene at the resource tower. There looked like one organized DC group fighting them at the top of a outer keep tower but they had ally siege hitting them with coldfire and it almost even numbers so that was kinda meh. Everything looked fun though, so that's all that really matters.

DKsUnite

There are Rapids slaves but with the nerf to rapids and everything taking them off you, you see lots of people being snared.

That's why yoi use it in conjuction with a meagre so any healers not inside the negate are still ineffective. As far encase, it doesn't provide a 15% dmg reduction and with the age of destruction ulti, 15% goes a long way.

Magus wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

Do the organised raids on NA not have rapids slaves? Im trying to picture this kind of build helping in fights vs other guilds and I mostly just expect all the snares and roots to get removed by Retreating Maneuvers spam almost instantly and most of the benefits a build like this provides can be replicated by a sorcerer quite easily.

Negate completely shuts down heals instead of a "small" 30% healing received debuff while Encase can safely be used from medium-ish range unlike Talons. Maybe Im being too narrow-minded though.

No, you are correct. They are farming pugs in the video - especially the last scene at the resource tower. There looked like one organized DC group fighting them at the top of a outer keep tower but they had ally siege hitting them with coldfire and it almost even numbers so that was kinda meh. Everything looked fun though, so that's all that really matters.

There was 2 or 3 organized groups in the video and that clip you are referring to has enemy cold fire siege, it's a dc keep and the shots were coming from inside the keep

loki547

If anyone can produce a clip of a group of 10 or more enemies ignoring for more than 30 seconds I will send them a $15 gift card to Hot Topic. Thank you.

Satiar

Tanking is not just staying alive, you actually have to do something. We were farming Alessia bridge the other night to get some new toons Battle Frenzy and SRIBES' lil tank crew kept jumping in. After about 30 seconds we realized they weren't actually doing anything... no debuffs, no real CC or DPS. So we just let them sit in the middle of us as ult batteries. That may be "real tanking" but it's not contributing anything. A build that can tank some serious damage, sustain resources while disrupting the enemy with CC and debuffs? That's real tanking as far as I'm concerned, and the only type that's of any use in this game.

KisoValley

I KNOW THIS

Ishammael

Valencer wrote: »

Do the organised raids on NA not have rapids slaves? Im trying to picture this kind of build helping in fights vs other guilds and I mostly just expect all the snares and roots to get removed by Retreating Maneuvers spam almost instantly and most of the benefits a build like this provides can be replicated by a sorcerer quite easily.

Negate completely shuts down heals instead of a "small" 30% healing received debuff while Encase can safely be used from medium-ish range unlike Talons. Maybe Im being too narrow-minded though.

There aren't really that many organised groups left in NA...

Joy_Division

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Earendal wrote: »

PvP tanks, take note; this is how it's done.

Do not aggro, let group members collect damage in vanguard and drain healer resources?

Don't take me wrong: i like @DKsUnite mDK vids, but looks like that this tank creates more problems for group than solves

I mean... He is immobilizing, snaring, debuffing incoming damage, dropping enough banners to rival asgari's banner down vid when he was emp to keep defile on targets, and going into groups first to initiate contact. There is no pvp aggro in this game so I would say he is definitely a tank, especially in the confines of the definition as it would apply to this game. Hands and feet more useful than someone that just runs about holding block doing nothing to impact enemies at all. And if we are being serious, He died, while CC'd, in a sea of 22 enemies, that I could count, on the top of a resource tower that was also under siege fire.

All those things are more effective if they going from mDK, those seconds of taking damage cannot be considered as tanking, sorry.

here's tank:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqOIvvBmeAM
get aggro, handle it - two simple rules, he also debuff healing and even immobilise, if synergy counts

emma666 wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

I've watched it from beginning to the end, didn't seen any try to handle LoS or aggro collecting, so mDK would be more useful. In last vid you see that this build dies instantly after everyone who heal him, so it's huge blackhole for magicka, but not tank

I don't think you realize in the last clip, it was a 8man vs 40-50 AD and we were all bound to die by being overwhelmed with numbers and siege. He debuffs and CC's enemies, pop speed, offheals and uses guard. Compared to a tank who does nothing else but block, Vyr cor does ALOT for the group, and saying he nerfs the group is just plain wrong

Theres no fight 50AD, it's multiple groups which came by ~10 of mostly novices who doesn't even try to get out from negate or tallons: roll dodge? nah, i'll spam breakfree and get bash instead

Whatever, not everyone agree that this vid is about tanking, it's more about negate+destro ulti OP ness

The video is cool and all, but does nobody on console use Fear?

NBrookus

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Earendal wrote: »

PvP tanks, take note; this is how it's done.

Do not aggro, let group members collect damage in vanguard and drain healer resources?

Don't take me wrong: i like @DKsUnite mDK vids, but looks like that this tank creates more problems for group than solves

I mean... He is immobilizing, snaring, debuffing incoming damage, dropping enough banners to rival asgari's banner down vid when he was emp to keep defile on targets, and going into groups first to initiate contact. There is no pvp aggro in this game so I would say he is definitely a tank, especially in the confines of the definition as it would apply to this game. Hands and feet more useful than someone that just runs about holding block doing nothing to impact enemies at all. And if we are being serious, He died, while CC'd, in a sea of 22 enemies, that I could count, on the top of a resource tower that was also under siege fire.

All those things are more effective if they going from mDK, those seconds of taking damage cannot be considered as tanking, sorry.

here's tank:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqOIvvBmeAM
get aggro, handle it - two simple rules, he also debuff healing and even immobilise, if synergy counts

emma666 wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

I've watched it from beginning to the end, didn't seen any try to handle LoS or aggro collecting, so mDK would be more useful. In last vid you see that this build dies instantly after everyone who heal him, so it's huge blackhole for magicka, but not tank

I don't think you realize in the last clip, it was a 8man vs 40-50 AD and we were all bound to die by being overwhelmed with numbers and siege. He debuffs and CC's enemies, pop speed, offheals and uses guard. Compared to a tank who does nothing else but block, Vyr cor does ALOT for the group, and saying he nerfs the group is just plain wrong

Theres no fight 50AD, it's multiple groups which came by ~10 of mostly novices who doesn't even try to get out from negate or tallons: roll dodge? nah, i'll spam breakfree and get bash instead

Whatever, not everyone agree that this vid is about tanking, it's more about negate+destro ulti OP ness

That video, while being very dull, shows no group utility at all. S/he can't even pull off a rez, doesn't drop a standard until there's no one else to utilize it and does no CC.

There are viable roles for near-immortal tanks. Pushing a breach. Holding a choke point. Getting pugs to jump off the walls and fight. Just being the last one to die at a tower farm is not one of them.

IxSTALKERxI

Great vid and amazing fights! I no longer need to explain to people how to be a defile tank in group, I can simply link them this video.

Also lol @ the comments.

Ernest145

Does it really matter what other people consider tank?

Satiar wrote: »

Tanking is not just staying alive, you actually have to do something. We were farming Alessia bridge the other night to get some new toons Battle Frenzy and SRIBES' lil tank crew kept jumping in. After about 30 seconds we realized they weren't actually doing anything... no debuffs, no real CC or DPS. So we just let them sit in the middle of us as ult batteries. That may be "real tanking" but it's not contributing anything. A build that can tank some serious damage, sustain resources while disrupting the enemy with CC and debuffs? That's real tanking as far as I'm concerned, and the only type that's of any use in this game.

^ Exactly, much rather have a person like Vyr Cor in my group than someone who can stay alive longer but does nothing except hold block.

Sugaroverdose

Ernest145 wrote: »

Does it really matter what other people consider tank?

Satiar wrote: »

Tanking is not just staying alive, you actually have to do something. We were farming Alessia bridge the other night to get some new toons Battle Frenzy and SRIBES' lil tank crew kept jumping in. After about 30 seconds we realized they weren't actually doing anything... no debuffs, no real CC or DPS. So we just let them sit in the middle of us as ult batteries. That may be "real tanking" but it's not contributing anything. A build that can tank some serious damage, sustain resources while disrupting the enemy with CC and debuffs? That's real tanking as far as I'm concerned, and the only type that's of any use in this game.

^ Exactly, much rather have a person like Vyr Cor in my group than someone who can stay alive longer but does nothing except hold block.

it does matter and if guy just walked into your crowd it's also not tanking.

Get any descent heavy mDK ask him switch to choking tallons and shifting standard he will be better, he also will be capable to heal himself.

Valencer

DKsUnite wrote: »

There are Rapids slaves but with the nerf to rapids and everything taking them off you, you see lots of people being snared.

That's why yoi use it in conjuction with a meagre so any healers not inside the negate are still ineffective. As far encase, it doesn't provide a 15% dmg reduction and with the age of destruction ulti, 15% goes a long way.

Magus wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

Do the organised raids on NA not have rapids slaves? Im trying to picture this kind of build helping in fights vs other guilds and I mostly just expect all the snares and roots to get removed by Retreating Maneuvers spam almost instantly and most of the benefits a build like this provides can be replicated by a sorcerer quite easily.

Negate completely shuts down heals instead of a "small" 30% healing received debuff while Encase can safely be used from medium-ish range unlike Talons. Maybe Im being too narrow-minded though.

No, you are correct. They are farming pugs in the video - especially the last scene at the resource tower. There looked like one organized DC group fighting them at the top of a outer keep tower but they had ally siege hitting them with coldfire and it almost even numbers so that was kinda meh. Everything looked fun though, so that's all that really matters.

There was 2 or 3 organized groups in the video and that clip you are referring to has enemy cold fire siege, it's a dc keep and the shots were coming from inside the keep

Fair enough. Don't want to make it look like Im criticizing - Im genuinely interested because Ive been struggling to find a purpose for my own DK in raids nowadays.

Have you tried Swarm Mother for a spec like this? Might work very nicely too.

Etaniel

Satiar wrote: »

Tanking is not just staying alive, you actually have to do something. We were farming Alessia bridge the other night to get some new toons Battle Frenzy and SRIBES' lil tank crew kept jumping in. After about 30 seconds we realized they weren't actually doing anything... no debuffs, no real CC or DPS. So we just let them sit in the middle of us as ult batteries. That may be "real tanking" but it's not contributing anything. A build that can tank some serious damage, sustain resources while disrupting the enemy with CC and debuffs? That's real tanking as far as I'm concerned, and the only type that's of any use in this game.

Yep, I love making these people feel useless. We stop hitting them, clear all their friends and then dance around them, had that happen last night.

DKsUnite

Valencer wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

There are Rapids slaves but with the nerf to rapids and everything taking them off you, you see lots of people being snared.

That's why yoi use it in conjuction with a meagre so any healers not inside the negate are still ineffective. As far encase, it doesn't provide a 15% dmg reduction and with the age of destruction ulti, 15% goes a long way.

Magus wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

Do the organised raids on NA not have rapids slaves? Im trying to picture this kind of build helping in fights vs other guilds and I mostly just expect all the snares and roots to get removed by Retreating Maneuvers spam almost instantly and most of the benefits a build like this provides can be replicated by a sorcerer quite easily.

Negate completely shuts down heals instead of a "small" 30% healing received debuff while Encase can safely be used from medium-ish range unlike Talons. Maybe Im being too narrow-minded though.

No, you are correct. They are farming pugs in the video - especially the last scene at the resource tower. There looked like one organized DC group fighting them at the top of a outer keep tower but they had ally siege hitting them with coldfire and it almost even numbers so that was kinda meh. Everything looked fun though, so that's all that really matters.

There was 2 or 3 organized groups in the video and that clip you are referring to has enemy cold fire siege, it's a dc keep and the shots were coming from inside the keep

Fair enough. Don't want to make it look like Im criticizing - Im genuinely interested because Ive been struggling to find a purpose for my own DK in raids nowadays.

Have you tried Swarm Mother for a spec like this? Might work very nicely too.

Swarm mother would be the icing on the cake but I can't live without the ult gen from bs

manny254

Good video, but...
If that is small scale then what is duo or solo pvp? Microscopic scale pvp?

KisoValley

Have to agree with above ^

We call 10-14 man groups a raid over here, thats how many most guilds roll with (apart from a few who like to run with a full 24 man lol).

Surprised you named it small scale, but at the same time these comments are pretty funny. You did your job well imo. That other vid that was linked wasn't a very good example of a tank doing their job lol.

TBois

Pure dps hole tanks just dont cut it in competive mid and large grp raids. This is tanking for this size grp. Its more of a disruptor but there would not be any tanks in this grp if you are using super defined roles, which you see in pve too is not how eso works