So, here we vote. Do you want proc sets crit to be nerfed/removed?

GreenSoup2HoT

No

I think this is a good change across the bored. PvP it was just to good for tanks and to good for glass cannons. PvE dps is to high in my opinion, i think its a good thing.

StereoLiz

I don't really care

Proc crit don't really matter for pvp because of impen and don't matter for pve because you can kill anything in pve by rolling your face on keyboard. It's not that change to proc sets that pvp need but if it will give almost no result - whatever.

I use just one proc set in pvp - widowmaker, it will be nerfed by poison fix, not crit nerf. Little bit unfair - tremor and viper much more common, but they won't receive changes. I like my widowmaker 2h flamberg so much! :-(

NewBlacksmurf

No

EldritchPenguin wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

It's really simple. @ZOS_RichLambert the changes should only apply when entering a PvP campaign

@NewBlacksmurf Great to see you're still around and kicking, comrade. And yes, you put it perfectly. PvE players shouldn't be forced to deal with changes and things of the sort that effect PvP.

I think it was pretty clear that they explicitly intended the crit change to impact PvE by virtue of proc sets such as Ilambris and Grothdarr overperforming.

Proc sets
We are going to be making some changes to these sets to balance out their burst potential. When the update hits, any set that has a damage or heal proc component to it will no longer crit in PVE or PVP. We chose this direction as we like the concept of these sets and still want them to be interesting and viable, we just wanted to tone down their overall burst potential. (sustain is slightly reduced, while burst potential is significantly reduced)

Nowhere in there does it single out proc sets overperforming in PvP, they just say that they want to tone them down. Could there have been a better way to handle this? Yes. But is this an example of PvE suffering for the sake of PvP balance? Definitely not.

@EldritchPenguin

I disagree. It's definately a change as results of PvP. The context is around the game balance update which is this update.

Specifically the year feedback has been around negative changes or nerfs.

-AOE caps
-Sets bonuses
-Class changes in effects

All of which have been for PvP as the PvE part of the games isn't lacking balance issues.

Rohamad_Ali

I don't really care

starkerealm wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Nerf it , remove it , whatever . If I never seen another proc suit I would not cry . I think they are all a gear stacking gimmick to remove skill from the game anyways . I would be fine with no sets at all , just armor with base stat bonuses . All of these things just lead to crafters becoming obsolete and power creep . Just my opinion again .

Sets can be interesting. As in really interesting for builds. As examples, here are two set bonuses from games that are not ESO. The Division has a riot shield active ability. Normally you can only use your pistol while you have it active. But, the Frontline set allows you to use an SMG while you have your shield out instead. Grim Dawn has a set that allows you to dual wield pistols (normally this isn't possible).

You know what's interesting? TBS. Stuff like that. A set that let you slot a 1h melee weapon on hand, and a staff off hand, and gave you access sword and board along with the relevant staff skills?

How about a set that, when complete, causes your heavy armor to count as medium armor for passives (excluding ones that require 5 pieces of medium equipped)?

Conceptually, I'm rather fond of Vampire Lord. I don't think there's a real role for it, but the boost to Vampires is kinda cool. Similarly, Salvation is kinda interesting now. Very narrow use, but, hey, it helps werewolves.

Yes but they get out of control in every game . We started with simple stuff like Willow's path and ashen grip and it turned to a landslide of easy mode vipers and velidreth or salene . Then players get use to pushing one button and the armor does all the rest of the work . I just don't like gear being more important then character build .

I'm pretty sure it was already out of hand at launch. Remember the Dragonguard Vampire Sorcs?

But, yeah, the overall system of, you collect a set to make you more powerful and it's a linear upgrade is a huge problem. I'm honestly okay with games where your gear is your build. Hell, I mentioned The Division in the previous post. But, again, I really prefer sets that let you play in different ways rather than ones that simply make you more powerful, or especially ones that randomly trigger and murder everyone around you.

I don't mind sets that change playstyle as much as damage output sets . Pelinals is an interesting example but falls short of the meta because of these other sets .

@Yolokin_Swagonborn

I'm very aware pts is a pre show and no place for changes . I also know the Devs hardly ever listen to any of Us until they've done it wrong for years . AOE caps for example and now poison as well . How many years have asked to just let us try removing AOE caps ? Most of this decision is probably in concrete by now . I don't think we will get a say .

kyle.wilson

The problem isn't just proc sets. The rapid power creep for pve has ultimately damaged pvp. If they would have made the pve dungeons harder without just upping hp and one hit mechanics, maybe we wouldn't have gotten this far.

I think that the only way to fix the game now, is to completely rebuild the combat system. Remove proc sets, reinstate soft caps, remove aoe caps.

But, I think that zos doesn't have the resources anymore to fix the problems. They are just strining us along till we figure it out. For 2 years they've said they would fix the lag in pvp. Still not done.

RebornV3x

Yes

Proc monster sets should be disabled in pvp and duels that simple this way it brings back some skills to player Vs player engagements and pve care bears can feel all warm and fuzzy still.

nordsavage

No

Kram8ion wrote: »

Meh I'm not really fussed it certainly doesn't address the issue but may enjoy a bit of alteration play with my toon

As I said with the stamina regen to block nerf. If you want to play a different way then you do not have to wait for a bad change to force you to. Just play a different way because you can. Wrecking a stat linked to so many variables is a bad idea when they can simply tone the sets down or even better just let it affect PvP. Even though removing crit from PvP is laughably ignorant of the situation of how people fight in Cyrodiil making this change almost pointless.

Enslaved

I can't vote since there is not an option for what I stand for.

I think removal of proc sets would be wrong move.
Also I don't think PvE aspect of the game should suffer at all.
In PvP I would like to see them balanced, not removed or nerfed to the ground.
Making Viper dot instead of instant damage would fix the set.
Making IG not going trough walls and floors would fix the set.
Making Velidreth crit only on one of 3 spores would fix the set.
Making tumorscale proc chance somewhat lower would fix the set.
And so on, and so forth...

NoFlash

I don't really care

keep the crit make it a dot. boom pve becomes stronger, pvp dot builds might be meta

Easily_Lost

I don't really care

I don't use proc sets ( actually I am not sure what 'proc means ).

leepalmer95

Yes

EvoAZN wrote: »

keep the crit make it a dot. boom pve becomes stronger, pvp dot builds might be meta

The point of nerfing them in both pvp and pve is because they were over performing in both...

EvilCroc

No

No, cuz PvP whiners should suffer.

agegarton

Yes

The sets themselves are fine, if a bit overpowered. However, when they crit in PVP THEY ARE UNSTOPPABLE. It's too much. I think ZoS has got the solution about right, and the cry-babies who can't handle their set not going crit-spasm need to get over it. There, I said it.

Vrienda

No

Not if it hurts PvE.

Hallothiel

Yes

The lag is PVP is enough of a handicap sometimes, just do not need these damn sets going off all over the place.

I know I die a lot in Cyrodiil but am learning & getting better but it gets depressing when it's not due to skill but just a suit of armour you can rarely do anything about if stacked.

Fudly_budly

No

I play PvP about 10 days a year and have never run a dungeon, arena, or trial. This change hurts me. simple as that. But, I get the need to do something. I just wish some better crafting options would drop with this update so I could replace the "umph" I'm losing.

I'm a simpleton but I just don't get this:
If PvP campaigns exist that strip away my champion points, why can't PvP strip out proc sets?

In TES IV for example, the IC arena required the player to wear standard armor. It confuses me when I read all the posts here that PvP should be about player skill, yet the vaunted BiS is what most people desire.

Seems to me the paradigm is "my gear/ability advantages are vital but ZoS can freely nerf the other guy's."

One of my favorite quotes comes from an old TV show, "Everyone looks at the world through their own knothole in the fence."
-- Grandpa Walton

Actually_Goku

Yes

I've gone yes. Ideally, I'd personally like to see a non-proc set PVP campaign, or even one where the 5-piece set bonus is disabled on someone's sets, but I doubt this is going to happen, so in light of that, yes. Proc sets need a nerf. I don't think just a crit nerf is enough, either. How often they proc, and in some cases damage all need a nerf, too.

Jimmy

No

I don't like the choices given in this poll.

I would rather see proc sets NOT crit in PVP and continue to crit in PvE

Fudly_budly

No

Hallothiel wrote: »

I know I die a lot in Cyrodiil but am learning & getting better but it gets depressing when it's not due to skill but just a suit of armour you can rarely do anything about if stacked.

Another tick on the "Due-to-skill-ometer"

My point exactly.
Kudos!!

kongkim

I don't really care

It will not change much so its fine if they do. and fine if they don't.

OldGamerESO

Yes

If nerfing/removing them reduces the whining on these forums by even 5 percent it will be worth it.

Also, ESO does not appear to take advice from players, so polls like this and all the complaint threads about upcoming changes will probably not make a difference. Also, they don't care if you quit, so threatening that does not seem very useful. The people who read and post on these forums probably do not represent the vast majority of their players, its just a psychotic minority of rabid crazies. (myself included).

STEVIL

I don't really care

Personally i think it likely wont satisfy anyone on the "recap sets* be evil" or the "recap sets* are great" sides so its likely a decent move, but really, i dont care.

in a living mmo things change and i expect to assess the changes and adapt to the new world on a regular basis.

This isn't breakingly significant - except to the "second best is same as last" crowds.

So, meh?

*Recap set is any set where the damage boost it provides is shown as separate entry on the recap screen like some enchants are. (Example - shock enchant or vipers or velidreth or ashen grip) as opposed to sets where the damage boosts they provide are not shown as separate line items on the recap screens like some enchants are (Example -crushing enchant or hundings, night mothers gaze, molag kena.) Some of these may have random types of triggers (nereineth or night mothers gaze) but others may be not random at all and keyed to events/actions (vipers, kena) and some may just apply all the time requiring no action or activation by user or events (hundings or julianos). "proc sets" is a term frequently used to include some from each of these categories but exclude others from each of these categories but always includes one common element - the recap screen shows the damage separately.

ANGEL_BtVS

No

No in PVE.

These sets are a lot of fun in PVE. Do you need them to beat PVE content? No. Do they speed things up? Yes. Some of these trials and vMA take quite a bit of time to complete. So removing the sets just extended the time required to beat them while doing nothing to improve the PVE experience. Are they going to increase the amount of time you have to complete speed runs for the achievements? Hope so.

EldritchPenguin

Yes

hagermanj wrote: »

I don't use proc sets ( actually I am not sure what 'proc means ).

Proc stands for Programmed Random OCcurance.

Proc sets refers to armor sets that have an X% chance to cause Y to happen when Z happens. For example, Velidreth: Whenever you deal damage, you have a 20% chance to release disease spores that deal ~10,000 damage to a single target.

Elsonso

Yes

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

I disagree. It's definately a change as results of PvP. The context is around the game balance update which is this update.

Specifically the year feedback has been around negative changes or nerfs.

-AOE caps
-Sets bonuses
-Class changes in effects

All of which have been for PvP as the PvE part of the games isn't lacking balance issues.

I think it is a mistake to think that this is entirely due to PVP. Yes, I hear that it is particularly bad in PVP, but just looking at the response to the PVE change suggests that there is already a problem.

Is it a game problem? ZOS has this love affair with procs, and with all of these procs, I think that we are seeing way too much crit damage in PVE. The real question is whether this critical damage is appropriate for the game and whether it places too much emphasis on specific armor sets.

Is it a player problem? Do people really understand what it means to have these procs crit? Are they just getting excited because "lower DPS is bad"? I think some people are just seeing that and not looking at the bigger picture of whether these criticals are good for the game and everyone who plays.

Either way, we really don't know what the big picture is, while ZOS does know what the big picture is. We don't even know what balance changes are in the works, and how they will change all of this. They will change things. It is too early to really get excited about this.

Sadly, by the time we find out what Wrobel is doing with balance, it will be way too late. If I had to guess, this will pale in comparison to changes yet to be revealed. Wrobel should pop in here and reveal, in broad strokes, what else is coming from his area.

Bakkagami

Yes

From a design point it never really made sense to me that sets can crit. Crit should be reserved just for skills and light/heavy attacks in my opinion.

This is a good starting point and if they need to tweak individual sets that are still over/underperforming they can do so.

shootyoureyeout

No

I wish they would stop making blanket changes to sets when the issues are only in pvp. These monster sets, while not required for pve, are fun as hell and are actually worth pve'ers to take the time to do the content to farm & acquire. People are actually out having fun doing pledges like crazy to get these sets because they are fun and powerful. There is FINALLY huge variety in viable gear sets including monster sets for pve, and I don't understand why they would make this a blanket change for pve and pvp. Makes zero sense.

User_Name

I think if you read the arguments put forward, also those about power creep in PVE, it would all make a lot more sense.

Just sayin'...

the_man_of_steal

No

Just cut in half the chance for proc sets to crit... Then you still have RNG incorporated, and you dont totally screw over the PVE players. These nerfs are too sweeping and honestly, the proc builds are kinda interesting.

Uriel_Nocturne

No

No.

Make code that turns the Proc Off/Down in Cyrodiil/IC only, and leave PvE alone. That, I'd be fine with. But to nerf EVERY Proc Set simply because a FEW Sets are overperforming? That makes no sense at all to me.

As I've said in another thread, I Main a MagTemplar.
I run 5x Julianos, 4x Seducer, and 3x Destruction Mastery (Jewelry). I use Stabby-sticks for the major part of my damage and self-healing, Jesus-beam and the three-target Solar fire slow-them-down ability; and while it seems that none of the "sneak peek" Update 13 changes will affect me in any way, we also don't know the full extent of the changes. My wife runs a nearly identical set-up on her MagSorcerer, the difference is obviously the Skills used, while the gear is the same.

I don't have the cash/upgrade Mats to fully redesign/respec a character that I've spent two years building up and fawning over. If ZOS kills this build... I really don't know what I'll do. But I will be highly upset, and I will show my displeasure with my wallet. My wife and I both sub, and we frequently buy extra Crowns to spend on various things in the Crown Store.

So while the initial peek into Update 13 doesn't affect my MagTemplar or my wife's MagSorcerer, the rest of the changes that are unknown "could". Neither of us can afford a complete (or even a partial) respec of either of our characters, and definitely we cannot afford to respec BOTH of our Main's.

Should ZOS kill these two builds, that cash flow from us will dry up faster than a puddle in the Sahara.

I know I may be taking a paranoid, fatalistic approach to this "sneak peek", but the changes they've hinted at are worrying. I will be keeping a close, wary eye on Update 13. Don't blow this, @ZOS_RichLambert There is actual money at stake for your company on this.