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· [IN PROGRESS] EU megaservers for maintenance – January 7, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EST (15:00 UTC)
(PVP)SKORIA and recent update 13 sneak peak
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Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »SienneYviete wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Again ill say it,if this makes you unable to complete or compete in PvE it's a pure L2P issueWaffennacht wrote: »Again ill say it,if this makes you unable to complete or compete in PvE it's a pure L2P issue
@Waffennacht Thats obviously not the case there are about 10 other ways you can do very well and even better without Skoria. Doesnt take a genius to know that.
Its just a very unnessecary nerf to PVE players. Bosses have millions of health, you'll still be able to kill them but you'll just be in rotation for a bit longer now than before nothing to do with l2p
Again if you can complete it, it's not a problem. Having PvE take a bit longer is far worth the potential change in PvP. If you cannot beat PvE because your helm can't crit, you need to L2P it's really simple
86 million hit point hm rakkhat says hi, have you completed this content? Do you know the dps requirements to complete it? If not gtfo with your L2P argument it's invalid. People are complaining because instead of fixing a problem only affecting pvpers, a blanket nerf that won't even fix the issue itself which is duhhh proc set stacking is introduced. If people think this bandaid fix will stop them getting rekt by viper veli and widowmaker stacking then they are delusional. How hard would it be to just implement no set bonus crit as part of the battle spirit buff if that's the way they want to go. All this nerf will do is push people back into boring damage stacking builds which will ruin any last semblance of build diversity we have now.
PvPers tend not to think much. They don't care about PvE. Problem is, this change alone will not even fix a fraction of the current PvP imbalances.
The significant majority of the people here have never contributed truly good DPS in a Vet trial (or run a Vet trial). What's happening right now is the typical blanket style nerf that has always proved to hurt ESO.
I have no issue with ZOS putting this on PTS if class balance changes somehow at least mostly counteract the DPS loss in PvE. If not, and fights start taking a lot longer, then it's just another failure on ZOS's part.
I will save my judgement until PTS comes despite the mess it will create for my Mag Sorc. Hopefully things are not as bad as they seem.
So if fights start taking a lot longer to finish and people cant skip boss mechanics anymore then its a failure on ZOS part ?
Great
This is exactly what I was talking about! You're one of the clueless players
Try skipping boss mechanics in Vet trials. Show me how to take down Rakkhat in vMoL in 60sec. Same goes for other Vet trials. I don't think you can.
Group dungeons will be extraordinarily easy to run through and burn everything down even without Proc Crits. Heck, you can skip boss mechanics through pure DPSing even with non-BiS gear and 400CP. They're just flat out easy for experienced players with good rotation knowledge. Only way to force all players to run through all boss mechanics in group dungeons is to remove CPs (horrible, horrible idea).
Endgame PvE in ESO refers to Vet trials. You must have BiS or near-BiS gear as a DPS to put out high damage. There is a threshold you must reach, and if you aren't there, you will be kicked unless you are friends with everyone and are knowingly getting carried. Warhorn will also have a high uptime (+30% Crit damage).
Now it is even more forced upon players to have BiS gear. When procs no longer crit, and your DPS drops by 7-8%, the difference is quite large.
You are not the only one playing the game. Like u said, those dungs are way too easy for u whether u use proc sets or not. Same applies for trials. Proc sets or not u will beat them cause u know how to adapt and complete the content. But when u have half ass players skipping dungeon boss mechanics because their gear is doing dmg for them then yes u have a problem. And as far as vet trials and experienced players are concerned the only difference is that its going to be a little harder to beat the trials now. Isnt that a good thing? That was one of the major issues in PVE. That everything was way too easy. Now that things are getting difficult its a bad thing? And regardless of how much time it takes to complete those trials. The issue with proc sets remains. They are doing way too much and they require absolutely no skill and thats a problem.
Again, you have no knowledge of endgame PvE.
Dungeons are easy for me because I am the very definition of a perfect PvE player. The 0.00001% or whatever. You don't find players like me unless you scramble to the top of the leaderboards or search for the very best. I also run with similarily-skilled players all the time. This is why group dungeons (non-DLC) are easy and don't need buffs at all. They shouldn't cater that content to players like me.
Tell all of the lowbies and PUGs in Group Finder that dungeons are too easy and their builds need nerfs cuz they're "half ass players". Run with CP100-200 players with bad gear and no rotations. These dungeons will not be faceroll at all.
Vet trials are not too easy, and no one ever said they were. The only way to run through them with ease is to run with 12 BiS, highly experienced, long-time players. Even PUGing Vet trials with good players is a total nightmare. No one thinks Vet trials need a buff.
By your logic, fights taking longer is a good thing. This alone shows you aren't a Vet trial runner. Fights take long enough as it is, and nerfing DPS just makes things worse for the already miniscule Trial community which consists of plenty of non-BiS players (who will now need to refarm just to put out good deeps if this nerf is big enough).
Oh please dude, can you make so it that I`m not forced to dig through massively disgusting self-praise everytime I try to gather some valuable input from your posts? Thanks, appreciated.
That's your issue. This isn't self-praise. It's an attempt to help an ignorant individual like yourself understand that Vet Fungral Grotto 1 and Vet Maw of Lorkhaj are on different difficulty levels, despite the "Veteran" tag. You simply haven't run the content and honestly probably never will.
I find content easy that 99% of players won't find easy. Just because I think vMA is easy, does not mean that will ever need a buff.
No one thinks Vet trails are too easy and need buffs. Saying that because you think group dungeons need to be harder and therefore Vet trials need to as well makes no sense.
You are prone to gathering valuable input because you're already stuck in your beliefs on this. As they say, you can't fix stupid.
Reread everything I've said to you and you might understand one day. That's all.4 -
Erondil✭✭✭✭✭
✭Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Just keep using it? PvP impen means very little change really for skoria
I dont think its a "very little change", most people run less than 1.8k impen and the least experienced ones (which are legion in cyrodiil) dont run anything, hell theres a reason I always run thief or shadow on my nb solo builds. But yeah to keep it is an option.mihran.akopyan_ESO wrote: »Thats not the kind of question you can answer before seeing the whole patch note and having tested on pts.
Yeh your are probably right. But lets say ... it happened. what would you swap it with. I am thinking Kena or 1x spell dmg head and 1 x magicka revovery shoulder. ORRRR heck I could go with monster set that gives more ult points.
Thats the joyce of theorycrafting, but for now wait and see
I just wanna point out the concept of "winning more" - it's very common in TCGs.
Basically the idea is, in order to accomplish your goal you are required to be in a position of dominance already, or to say what is required would already be enough to win.
Aka if you're opponent is inexperienced and or no impen (and should have some) you're already gonna win despite the added dps of skoria critting.
Where you would need that edge is against an experienced player, but because they're experienced they'll have impen (if they should) therefore the added advantage of crit is further minimzed.
Aka if you're playin scrubs, the changes don't matter, if you're playin a pro, the changes don't matter - kind of thought process
Edit: this is regarding magicka and skoria, as we cannot stack as many proc sets or crit chance as stam builds. It seems to me the stam proc stack builds will be more greatly effected
It does in 1vX.
Skoria is only good for mageblade 1vX, it targets dead players around you, can't afford to have rng to determine if your rng hits a living enemy or some scrub you already melted.
I know its good for mageblade 1vX and thats what this thread is about, I amso believe its great for mdk and mtemplar but thats not the matter so w/e. If you make your build and your burst while taking the procc into account, you shouldnt kill many people without so the bug youre talking isnt too much of an issue. It is however the case if you take skoria as "just a bonus procc" but then a nerf doesnt affect your build too much.
PS: Skoria is also amazing in 1v1.~retired~
EU server, former Zerg Squad and Banana Squad officer
Dennegor NB AD, AvA 50 Grand Overlord 24/05/2016
rekt you NB AD, AvA 32
Erondil Sorc AD, AvA 23
Denne the Banana Slayer NB EP, AvA 14
Darth Dennegor lv50 Stamina NB DC, AvA 19
Youtube Channel0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SienneYviete wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Again ill say it,if this makes you unable to complete or compete in PvE it's a pure L2P issueWaffennacht wrote: »Again ill say it,if this makes you unable to complete or compete in PvE it's a pure L2P issue
@Waffennacht Thats obviously not the case there are about 10 other ways you can do very well and even better without Skoria. Doesnt take a genius to know that.
Its just a very unnessecary nerf to PVE players. Bosses have millions of health, you'll still be able to kill them but you'll just be in rotation for a bit longer now than before nothing to do with l2p
Again if you can complete it, it's not a problem. Having PvE take a bit longer is far worth the potential change in PvP. If you cannot beat PvE because your helm can't crit, you need to L2P it's really simple
86 million hit point hm rakkhat says hi, have you completed this content? Do you know the dps requirements to complete it? If not gtfo with your L2P argument it's invalid. People are complaining because instead of fixing a problem only affecting pvpers, a blanket nerf that won't even fix the issue itself which is duhhh proc set stacking is introduced. If people think this bandaid fix will stop them getting rekt by viper veli and widowmaker stacking then they are delusional. How hard would it be to just implement no set bonus crit as part of the battle spirit buff if that's the way they want to go. All this nerf will do is push people back into boring damage stacking builds which will ruin any last semblance of build diversity we have now.
PvPers tend not to think much. They don't care about PvE. Problem is, this change alone will not even fix a fraction of the current PvP imbalances.
The significant majority of the people here have never contributed truly good DPS in a Vet trial (or run a Vet trial). What's happening right now is the typical blanket style nerf that has always proved to hurt ESO.
I have no issue with ZOS putting this on PTS if class balance changes somehow at least mostly counteract the DPS loss in PvE. If not, and fights start taking a lot longer, then it's just another failure on ZOS's part.
I will save my judgement until PTS comes despite the mess it will create for my Mag Sorc. Hopefully things are not as bad as they seem.
So if fights start taking a lot longer to finish and people cant skip boss mechanics anymore then its a failure on ZOS part ?
Great
This is exactly what I was talking about! You're one of the clueless players
Try skipping boss mechanics in Vet trials. Show me how to take down Rakkhat in vMoL in 60sec. Same goes for other Vet trials. I don't think you can.
Group dungeons will be extraordinarily easy to run through and burn everything down even without Proc Crits. Heck, you can skip boss mechanics through pure DPSing even with non-BiS gear and 400CP. They're just flat out easy for experienced players with good rotation knowledge. Only way to force all players to run through all boss mechanics in group dungeons is to remove CPs (horrible, horrible idea).
Endgame PvE in ESO refers to Vet trials. You must have BiS or near-BiS gear as a DPS to put out high damage. There is a threshold you must reach, and if you aren't there, you will be kicked unless you are friends with everyone and are knowingly getting carried. Warhorn will also have a high uptime (+30% Crit damage).
Now it is even more forced upon players to have BiS gear. When procs no longer crit, and your DPS drops by 7-8%, the difference is quite large.
You are not the only one playing the game. Like u said, those dungs are way too easy for u whether u use proc sets or not. Same applies for trials. Proc sets or not u will beat them cause u know how to adapt and complete the content. But when u have half ass players skipping dungeon boss mechanics because their gear is doing dmg for them then yes u have a problem. And as far as vet trials and experienced players are concerned the only difference is that its going to be a little harder to beat the trials now. Isnt that a good thing? That was one of the major issues in PVE. That everything was way too easy. Now that things are getting difficult its a bad thing? And regardless of how much time it takes to complete those trials. The issue with proc sets remains. They are doing way too much and they require absolutely no skill and thats a problem.
Again, you have no knowledge of endgame PvE.
Dungeons are easy for me because I am the very definition of a perfect PvE player. The 0.00001% or whatever. You don't find players like me unless you scramble to the top of the leaderboards or search for the very best. I also run with similarily-skilled players all the time. This is why group dungeons (non-DLC) are easy and don't need buffs at all. They shouldn't cater that content to players like me.
Tell all of the lowbies and PUGs in Group Finder that dungeons are too easy and their builds need nerfs cuz they're "half ass players". Run with CP100-200 players with bad gear and no rotations. These dungeons will not be faceroll at all.
Vet trials are not too easy, and no one ever said they were. The only way to run through them with ease is to run with 12 BiS, highly experienced, long-time players. Even PUGing Vet trials with good players is a total nightmare. No one thinks Vet trials need a buff.
By your logic, fights taking longer is a good thing. This alone shows you aren't a Vet trial runner. Fights take long enough as it is, and nerfing DPS just makes things worse for the already miniscule Trial community which consists of plenty of non-BiS players (who will now need to refarm just to put out good deeps if this nerf is big enough).
The first paragraph wasnt really needed. Thats exactly what i said. You are among the best and u will adapt.
That doesnt mean we are talking about the extreme opposite. If i run with players with bad gear and no rotation then ofc it wont be faceroll. We are not talking about those players. We are talking about the players that put on procs and suddenly start pulling good numbers even with a bad rotation. Thats broken. Thats what im saying. Its the same issue with PVP. Suddenly everyone is competitive cause the gear is doing the dmg for them. You want to pull good numbers and complete content then do it with ur skill.
Vet trials were designed to take a long time. If u dont like fights that are taking too long then maybe u shouldnt run vet trials. And if this nerf means that non BiS players wont be able to complete it then so be it. Its the hardest content of the game. It should require BiS players to complete it. Why is that bad?1 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DRXHarbinger wrote: »SienneYviete wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Again ill say it,if this makes you unable to complete or compete in PvE it's a pure L2P issueWaffennacht wrote: »Again ill say it,if this makes you unable to complete or compete in PvE it's a pure L2P issue
@Waffennacht Thats obviously not the case there are about 10 other ways you can do very well and even better without Skoria. Doesnt take a genius to know that.
Its just a very unnessecary nerf to PVE players. Bosses have millions of health, you'll still be able to kill them but you'll just be in rotation for a bit longer now than before nothing to do with l2p
Again if you can complete it, it's not a problem. Having PvE take a bit longer is far worth the potential change in PvP. If you cannot beat PvE because your helm can't crit, you need to L2P it's really simple
86 million hit point hm rakkhat says hi, have you completed this content? Do you know the dps requirements to complete it? If not gtfo with your L2P argument it's invalid. People are complaining because instead of fixing a problem only affecting pvpers, a blanket nerf that won't even fix the issue itself which is duhhh proc set stacking is introduced. If people think this bandaid fix will stop them getting rekt by viper veli and widowmaker stacking then they are delusional. How hard would it be to just implement no set bonus crit as part of the battle spirit buff if that's the way they want to go. All this nerf will do is push people back into boring damage stacking builds which will ruin any last semblance of build diversity we have now.
PvPers tend not to think much. They don't care about PvE. Problem is, this change alone will not even fix a fraction of the current PvP imbalances.
The significant majority of the people here have never contributed truly good DPS in a Vet trial (or run a Vet trial). What's happening right now is the typical blanket style nerf that has always proved to hurt ESO.
I have no issue with ZOS putting this on PTS if class balance changes somehow at least mostly counteract the DPS loss in PvE. If not, and fights start taking a lot longer, then it's just another failure on ZOS's part.
I will save my judgement until PTS comes despite the mess it will create for my Mag Sorc. Hopefully things are not as bad as they seem.
So if fights start taking a lot longer to finish and people cant skip boss mechanics anymore then its a failure on ZOS part ?
Great
This is exactly what I was talking about! You're one of the clueless players
Try skipping boss mechanics in Vet trials. Show me how to take down Rakkhat in vMoL in 60sec. Same goes for other Vet trials. I don't think you can.
Group dungeons will be extraordinarily easy to run through and burn everything down even without Proc Crits. Heck, you can skip boss mechanics through pure DPSing even with non-BiS gear and 400CP. They're just flat out easy for experienced players with good rotation knowledge. Only way to force all players to run through all boss mechanics in group dungeons is to remove CPs (horrible, horrible idea).
Endgame PvE in ESO refers to Vet trials. You must have BiS or near-BiS gear as a DPS to put out high damage. There is a threshold you must reach, and if you aren't there, you will be kicked unless you are friends with everyone and are knowingly getting carried. Warhorn will also have a high uptime (+30% Crit damage).
Now it is even more forced upon players to have BiS gear. When procs no longer crit, and your DPS drops by 7-8%, the difference is quite large.
You are not the only one playing the game. Like u said, those dungs are way too easy for u whether u use proc sets or not. Same applies for trials. Proc sets or not u will beat them cause u know how to adapt and complete the content. But when u have half ass players skipping dungeon boss mechanics because their gear is doing dmg for them then yes u have a problem. And as far as vet trials and experienced players are concerned the only difference is that its going to be a little harder to beat the trials now. Isnt that a good thing? That was one of the major issues in PVE. That everything was way too easy. Now that things are getting difficult its a bad thing? And regardless of how much time it takes to complete those trials. The issue with proc sets remains. They are doing way too much and they require absolutely no skill and thats a problem.
Again, you have no knowledge of endgame PvE.
Dungeons are easy for me because I am the very definition of a perfect PvE player. The 0.00001% or whatever. You don't find players like me unless you scramble to the top of the leaderboards or search for the very best. I also run with similarily-skilled players all the time. This is why group dungeons (non-DLC) are easy and don't need buffs at all. They shouldn't cater that content to players like me.
Tell all of the lowbies and PUGs in Group Finder that dungeons are too easy and their builds need nerfs cuz they're "half ass players". Run with CP100-200 players with bad gear and no rotations. These dungeons will not be faceroll at all.
Vet trials are not too easy, and no one ever said they were. The only way to run through them with ease is to run with 12 BiS, highly experienced, long-time players. Even PUGing Vet trials with good players is a total nightmare. No one thinks Vet trials need a buff.
By your logic, fights taking longer is a good thing. This alone shows you aren't a Vet trial runner. Fights take long enough as it is, and nerfing DPS just makes things worse for the already miniscule Trial community which consists of plenty of non-BiS players (who will now need to refarm just to put out good deeps if this nerf is big enough).
Leave it dude. Some people have no clue. Only those that have been in a trial and spent hours and hour hacking away will ever get it.
Trials as they are are boring with thr whole stack and burn jobs they entail. ..some have just never been there and done it to understand that taking 10+mins longer is actually quite a big deal. 10 mins can be the difference between a clear and wipe.
It's my fault.
In-game, I often help PUGs beat daily pledge group dungeons and they love me for it. Or I give people Mag Sorc advice. Or run Vet trials. That's how I play in ESO.
On the Forums you just can't prove to them you know what you're talking about by walking around with "The Flawless Conqueror" and Ilambris, BSW, and Aether/Moondancer gear. Even though I soloed vWGT and vCoS, some people (only on the Forums) will still be stubborn and say I'm wrong regarding obvious PvE stuff like Vet trials not needing to be buffed/take longer to complete. The same individuals don't even run the content they're arguing about.
I keep trying to help individuals like that understand but they're strictly here to argue. Makes me sad
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pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DRXHarbinger wrote: »SienneYviete wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Again ill say it,if this makes you unable to complete or compete in PvE it's a pure L2P issueWaffennacht wrote: »Again ill say it,if this makes you unable to complete or compete in PvE it's a pure L2P issue
@Waffennacht Thats obviously not the case there are about 10 other ways you can do very well and even better without Skoria. Doesnt take a genius to know that.
Its just a very unnessecary nerf to PVE players. Bosses have millions of health, you'll still be able to kill them but you'll just be in rotation for a bit longer now than before nothing to do with l2p
Again if you can complete it, it's not a problem. Having PvE take a bit longer is far worth the potential change in PvP. If you cannot beat PvE because your helm can't crit, you need to L2P it's really simple
86 million hit point hm rakkhat says hi, have you completed this content? Do you know the dps requirements to complete it? If not gtfo with your L2P argument it's invalid. People are complaining because instead of fixing a problem only affecting pvpers, a blanket nerf that won't even fix the issue itself which is duhhh proc set stacking is introduced. If people think this bandaid fix will stop them getting rekt by viper veli and widowmaker stacking then they are delusional. How hard would it be to just implement no set bonus crit as part of the battle spirit buff if that's the way they want to go. All this nerf will do is push people back into boring damage stacking builds which will ruin any last semblance of build diversity we have now.
PvPers tend not to think much. They don't care about PvE. Problem is, this change alone will not even fix a fraction of the current PvP imbalances.
The significant majority of the people here have never contributed truly good DPS in a Vet trial (or run a Vet trial). What's happening right now is the typical blanket style nerf that has always proved to hurt ESO.
I have no issue with ZOS putting this on PTS if class balance changes somehow at least mostly counteract the DPS loss in PvE. If not, and fights start taking a lot longer, then it's just another failure on ZOS's part.
I will save my judgement until PTS comes despite the mess it will create for my Mag Sorc. Hopefully things are not as bad as they seem.
So if fights start taking a lot longer to finish and people cant skip boss mechanics anymore then its a failure on ZOS part ?
Great
This is exactly what I was talking about! You're one of the clueless players
Try skipping boss mechanics in Vet trials. Show me how to take down Rakkhat in vMoL in 60sec. Same goes for other Vet trials. I don't think you can.
Group dungeons will be extraordinarily easy to run through and burn everything down even without Proc Crits. Heck, you can skip boss mechanics through pure DPSing even with non-BiS gear and 400CP. They're just flat out easy for experienced players with good rotation knowledge. Only way to force all players to run through all boss mechanics in group dungeons is to remove CPs (horrible, horrible idea).
Endgame PvE in ESO refers to Vet trials. You must have BiS or near-BiS gear as a DPS to put out high damage. There is a threshold you must reach, and if you aren't there, you will be kicked unless you are friends with everyone and are knowingly getting carried. Warhorn will also have a high uptime (+30% Crit damage).
Now it is even more forced upon players to have BiS gear. When procs no longer crit, and your DPS drops by 7-8%, the difference is quite large.
You are not the only one playing the game. Like u said, those dungs are way too easy for u whether u use proc sets or not. Same applies for trials. Proc sets or not u will beat them cause u know how to adapt and complete the content. But when u have half ass players skipping dungeon boss mechanics because their gear is doing dmg for them then yes u have a problem. And as far as vet trials and experienced players are concerned the only difference is that its going to be a little harder to beat the trials now. Isnt that a good thing? That was one of the major issues in PVE. That everything was way too easy. Now that things are getting difficult its a bad thing? And regardless of how much time it takes to complete those trials. The issue with proc sets remains. They are doing way too much and they require absolutely no skill and thats a problem.
Again, you have no knowledge of endgame PvE.
Dungeons are easy for me because I am the very definition of a perfect PvE player. The 0.00001% or whatever. You don't find players like me unless you scramble to the top of the leaderboards or search for the very best. I also run with similarily-skilled players all the time. This is why group dungeons (non-DLC) are easy and don't need buffs at all. They shouldn't cater that content to players like me.
Tell all of the lowbies and PUGs in Group Finder that dungeons are too easy and their builds need nerfs cuz they're "half ass players". Run with CP100-200 players with bad gear and no rotations. These dungeons will not be faceroll at all.
Vet trials are not too easy, and no one ever said they were. The only way to run through them with ease is to run with 12 BiS, highly experienced, long-time players. Even PUGing Vet trials with good players is a total nightmare. No one thinks Vet trials need a buff.
By your logic, fights taking longer is a good thing. This alone shows you aren't a Vet trial runner. Fights take long enough as it is, and nerfing DPS just makes things worse for the already miniscule Trial community which consists of plenty of non-BiS players (who will now need to refarm just to put out good deeps if this nerf is big enough).
Leave it dude. Some people have no clue. Only those that have been in a trial and spent hours and hour hacking away will ever get it.
Trials as they are are boring with thr whole stack and burn jobs they entail. ..some have just never been there and done it to understand that taking 10+mins longer is actually quite a big deal. 10 mins can be the difference between a clear and wipe.
Thats a problem with trial design. Just because trials are taking too long it doesnt mean proc sets are fine. If u have a problem with how the trials are designed then stop doing trials or ask for them to be redesigned. Instead of telling people that they have no clue how about u stop thinking about urself and how this is going to affect you personally and look at the bigger picture. You are not the only one playing this game.1 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SienneYviete wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Again ill say it,if this makes you unable to complete or compete in PvE it's a pure L2P issueWaffennacht wrote: »Again ill say it,if this makes you unable to complete or compete in PvE it's a pure L2P issue
@Waffennacht Thats obviously not the case there are about 10 other ways you can do very well and even better without Skoria. Doesnt take a genius to know that.
Its just a very unnessecary nerf to PVE players. Bosses have millions of health, you'll still be able to kill them but you'll just be in rotation for a bit longer now than before nothing to do with l2p
Again if you can complete it, it's not a problem. Having PvE take a bit longer is far worth the potential change in PvP. If you cannot beat PvE because your helm can't crit, you need to L2P it's really simple
86 million hit point hm rakkhat says hi, have you completed this content? Do you know the dps requirements to complete it? If not gtfo with your L2P argument it's invalid. People are complaining because instead of fixing a problem only affecting pvpers, a blanket nerf that won't even fix the issue itself which is duhhh proc set stacking is introduced. If people think this bandaid fix will stop them getting rekt by viper veli and widowmaker stacking then they are delusional. How hard would it be to just implement no set bonus crit as part of the battle spirit buff if that's the way they want to go. All this nerf will do is push people back into boring damage stacking builds which will ruin any last semblance of build diversity we have now.
PvPers tend not to think much. They don't care about PvE. Problem is, this change alone will not even fix a fraction of the current PvP imbalances.
The significant majority of the people here have never contributed truly good DPS in a Vet trial (or run a Vet trial). What's happening right now is the typical blanket style nerf that has always proved to hurt ESO.
I have no issue with ZOS putting this on PTS if class balance changes somehow at least mostly counteract the DPS loss in PvE. If not, and fights start taking a lot longer, then it's just another failure on ZOS's part.
I will save my judgement until PTS comes despite the mess it will create for my Mag Sorc. Hopefully things are not as bad as they seem.
So if fights start taking a lot longer to finish and people cant skip boss mechanics anymore then its a failure on ZOS part ?
Great
This is exactly what I was talking about! You're one of the clueless players
Try skipping boss mechanics in Vet trials. Show me how to take down Rakkhat in vMoL in 60sec. Same goes for other Vet trials. I don't think you can.
Group dungeons will be extraordinarily easy to run through and burn everything down even without Proc Crits. Heck, you can skip boss mechanics through pure DPSing even with non-BiS gear and 400CP. They're just flat out easy for experienced players with good rotation knowledge. Only way to force all players to run through all boss mechanics in group dungeons is to remove CPs (horrible, horrible idea).
Endgame PvE in ESO refers to Vet trials. You must have BiS or near-BiS gear as a DPS to put out high damage. There is a threshold you must reach, and if you aren't there, you will be kicked unless you are friends with everyone and are knowingly getting carried. Warhorn will also have a high uptime (+30% Crit damage).
Now it is even more forced upon players to have BiS gear. When procs no longer crit, and your DPS drops by 7-8%, the difference is quite large.
You are not the only one playing the game. Like u said, those dungs are way too easy for u whether u use proc sets or not. Same applies for trials. Proc sets or not u will beat them cause u know how to adapt and complete the content. But when u have half ass players skipping dungeon boss mechanics because their gear is doing dmg for them then yes u have a problem. And as far as vet trials and experienced players are concerned the only difference is that its going to be a little harder to beat the trials now. Isnt that a good thing? That was one of the major issues in PVE. That everything was way too easy. Now that things are getting difficult its a bad thing? And regardless of how much time it takes to complete those trials. The issue with proc sets remains. They are doing way too much and they require absolutely no skill and thats a problem.
Again, you have no knowledge of endgame PvE.
Dungeons are easy for me because I am the very definition of a perfect PvE player. The 0.00001% or whatever. You don't find players like me unless you scramble to the top of the leaderboards or search for the very best. I also run with similarily-skilled players all the time. This is why group dungeons (non-DLC) are easy and don't need buffs at all. They shouldn't cater that content to players like me.
Tell all of the lowbies and PUGs in Group Finder that dungeons are too easy and their builds need nerfs cuz they're "half ass players". Run with CP100-200 players with bad gear and no rotations. These dungeons will not be faceroll at all.
Vet trials are not too easy, and no one ever said they were. The only way to run through them with ease is to run with 12 BiS, highly experienced, long-time players. Even PUGing Vet trials with good players is a total nightmare. No one thinks Vet trials need a buff.
By your logic, fights taking longer is a good thing. This alone shows you aren't a Vet trial runner. Fights take long enough as it is, and nerfing DPS just makes things worse for the already miniscule Trial community which consists of plenty of non-BiS players (who will now need to refarm just to put out good deeps if this nerf is big enough).
The first paragraph wasnt really needed. Thats exactly what i said. You are among the best and u will adapt.
That doesnt mean we are talking about the extreme opposite. If i run with players with bad gear and no rotation then ofc it wont be faceroll. We are not talking about those players. We are talking about the players that put on procs and suddenly start pulling good numbers even with a bad rotation. Thats broken. Thats what im saying. Its the same issue with PVP. Suddenly everyone is competitive cause the gear is doing the dmg for them. You want to pull good numbers and complete content then do it with ur skill.
Vet trials were designed to take a long time. If u dont like fights that are taking too long then maybe u shouldnt run vet trials. And if this nerf means that non BiS players wont be able to complete it then so be it. Its the hardest content of the game. It should require BiS players to complete it. Why is that bad?
Exactly. If people can only do what is mean't to be the 'hardest' pve content in the game by relying on proc armor to make up for the lack of proper dps rotation, mechanic knowledge and gear then they shouldn't be capable of completing them at all.
If they can't do it after the update they so be it. They should what you should need to do to complete the end game content, go get a good pve build, go practice it and then come back.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SienneYviete wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Again ill say it,if this makes you unable to complete or compete in PvE it's a pure L2P issueWaffennacht wrote: »Again ill say it,if this makes you unable to complete or compete in PvE it's a pure L2P issue
@Waffennacht Thats obviously not the case there are about 10 other ways you can do very well and even better without Skoria. Doesnt take a genius to know that.
Its just a very unnessecary nerf to PVE players. Bosses have millions of health, you'll still be able to kill them but you'll just be in rotation for a bit longer now than before nothing to do with l2p
Again if you can complete it, it's not a problem. Having PvE take a bit longer is far worth the potential change in PvP. If you cannot beat PvE because your helm can't crit, you need to L2P it's really simple
86 million hit point hm rakkhat says hi, have you completed this content? Do you know the dps requirements to complete it? If not gtfo with your L2P argument it's invalid. People are complaining because instead of fixing a problem only affecting pvpers, a blanket nerf that won't even fix the issue itself which is duhhh proc set stacking is introduced. If people think this bandaid fix will stop them getting rekt by viper veli and widowmaker stacking then they are delusional. How hard would it be to just implement no set bonus crit as part of the battle spirit buff if that's the way they want to go. All this nerf will do is push people back into boring damage stacking builds which will ruin any last semblance of build diversity we have now.
PvPers tend not to think much. They don't care about PvE. Problem is, this change alone will not even fix a fraction of the current PvP imbalances.
The significant majority of the people here have never contributed truly good DPS in a Vet trial (or run a Vet trial). What's happening right now is the typical blanket style nerf that has always proved to hurt ESO.
I have no issue with ZOS putting this on PTS if class balance changes somehow at least mostly counteract the DPS loss in PvE. If not, and fights start taking a lot longer, then it's just another failure on ZOS's part.
I will save my judgement until PTS comes despite the mess it will create for my Mag Sorc. Hopefully things are not as bad as they seem.
So if fights start taking a lot longer to finish and people cant skip boss mechanics anymore then its a failure on ZOS part ?
Great
This is exactly what I was talking about! You're one of the clueless players
Try skipping boss mechanics in Vet trials. Show me how to take down Rakkhat in vMoL in 60sec. Same goes for other Vet trials. I don't think you can.
Group dungeons will be extraordinarily easy to run through and burn everything down even without Proc Crits. Heck, you can skip boss mechanics through pure DPSing even with non-BiS gear and 400CP. They're just flat out easy for experienced players with good rotation knowledge. Only way to force all players to run through all boss mechanics in group dungeons is to remove CPs (horrible, horrible idea).
Endgame PvE in ESO refers to Vet trials. You must have BiS or near-BiS gear as a DPS to put out high damage. There is a threshold you must reach, and if you aren't there, you will be kicked unless you are friends with everyone and are knowingly getting carried. Warhorn will also have a high uptime (+30% Crit damage).
Now it is even more forced upon players to have BiS gear. When procs no longer crit, and your DPS drops by 7-8%, the difference is quite large.
You are not the only one playing the game. Like u said, those dungs are way too easy for u whether u use proc sets or not. Same applies for trials. Proc sets or not u will beat them cause u know how to adapt and complete the content. But when u have half ass players skipping dungeon boss mechanics because their gear is doing dmg for them then yes u have a problem. And as far as vet trials and experienced players are concerned the only difference is that its going to be a little harder to beat the trials now. Isnt that a good thing? That was one of the major issues in PVE. That everything was way too easy. Now that things are getting difficult its a bad thing? And regardless of how much time it takes to complete those trials. The issue with proc sets remains. They are doing way too much and they require absolutely no skill and thats a problem.
Again, you have no knowledge of endgame PvE.
Dungeons are easy for me because I am the very definition of a perfect PvE player. The 0.00001% or whatever. You don't find players like me unless you scramble to the top of the leaderboards or search for the very best. I also run with similarily-skilled players all the time. This is why group dungeons (non-DLC) are easy and don't need buffs at all. They shouldn't cater that content to players like me.
Tell all of the lowbies and PUGs in Group Finder that dungeons are too easy and their builds need nerfs cuz they're "half ass players". Run with CP100-200 players with bad gear and no rotations. These dungeons will not be faceroll at all.
Vet trials are not too easy, and no one ever said they were. The only way to run through them with ease is to run with 12 BiS, highly experienced, long-time players. Even PUGing Vet trials with good players is a total nightmare. No one thinks Vet trials need a buff.
By your logic, fights taking longer is a good thing. This alone shows you aren't a Vet trial runner. Fights take long enough as it is, and nerfing DPS just makes things worse for the already miniscule Trial community which consists of plenty of non-BiS players (who will now need to refarm just to put out good deeps if this nerf is big enough).
The first paragraph wasnt really needed. Thats exactly what i said. You are among the best and u will adapt.
That doesnt mean we are talking about the extreme opposite. If i run with players with bad gear and no rotation then ofc it wont be faceroll. We are not talking about those players. We are talking about the players that put on procs and suddenly start pulling good numbers even with a bad rotation. Thats broken. Thats what im saying. Its the same issue with PVP. Suddenly everyone is competitive cause the gear is doing the dmg for them. You want to pull good numbers and complete content then do it with ur skill.
Vet trials were designed to take a long time. If u dont like fights that are taking too long then maybe u shouldnt run vet trials. And if this nerf means that non BiS players wont be able to complete it then so be it. Its the hardest content of the game. It should require BiS players to complete it. Why is that bad?
@SienneYviete you'll love what this guy said lol.
In PvP, procs are an issue because the OP sets (Viper, Tremor, etc) provide high burst damage. PvP is based heavily on burst, causing certain sets to burst players down far too easily and quickly, with 50% of their damage coming from procs. That's broken.
Proc sets are not carrying people for PvE DPS. No one is pulling good numbers because of their proc sets. They never have and never will, because PvE DPS is dependant on DoTs you place by skill casts and a good rotation/build. There are some strong proc sets for PvE (Ilambris, Grothdarr) but no one is getting their DPS utterly carried by them like you make it sound.
Vet trials are designed for 12 players, not to simply "take long". They take long enough as it is especially in PUG-style groups. Eliminating Proc Crits altogether makes them take even longer (not a needed change at all).
To sum it up - If you ran Vet trials you'd never make these comments of yours.1 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DRXHarbinger wrote: »SienneYviete wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Again ill say it,if this makes you unable to complete or compete in PvE it's a pure L2P issueWaffennacht wrote: »Again ill say it,if this makes you unable to complete or compete in PvE it's a pure L2P issue
@Waffennacht Thats obviously not the case there are about 10 other ways you can do very well and even better without Skoria. Doesnt take a genius to know that.
Its just a very unnessecary nerf to PVE players. Bosses have millions of health, you'll still be able to kill them but you'll just be in rotation for a bit longer now than before nothing to do with l2p
Again if you can complete it, it's not a problem. Having PvE take a bit longer is far worth the potential change in PvP. If you cannot beat PvE because your helm can't crit, you need to L2P it's really simple
86 million hit point hm rakkhat says hi, have you completed this content? Do you know the dps requirements to complete it? If not gtfo with your L2P argument it's invalid. People are complaining because instead of fixing a problem only affecting pvpers, a blanket nerf that won't even fix the issue itself which is duhhh proc set stacking is introduced. If people think this bandaid fix will stop them getting rekt by viper veli and widowmaker stacking then they are delusional. How hard would it be to just implement no set bonus crit as part of the battle spirit buff if that's the way they want to go. All this nerf will do is push people back into boring damage stacking builds which will ruin any last semblance of build diversity we have now.
PvPers tend not to think much. They don't care about PvE. Problem is, this change alone will not even fix a fraction of the current PvP imbalances.
The significant majority of the people here have never contributed truly good DPS in a Vet trial (or run a Vet trial). What's happening right now is the typical blanket style nerf that has always proved to hurt ESO.
I have no issue with ZOS putting this on PTS if class balance changes somehow at least mostly counteract the DPS loss in PvE. If not, and fights start taking a lot longer, then it's just another failure on ZOS's part.
I will save my judgement until PTS comes despite the mess it will create for my Mag Sorc. Hopefully things are not as bad as they seem.
So if fights start taking a lot longer to finish and people cant skip boss mechanics anymore then its a failure on ZOS part ?
Great
This is exactly what I was talking about! You're one of the clueless players
Try skipping boss mechanics in Vet trials. Show me how to take down Rakkhat in vMoL in 60sec. Same goes for other Vet trials. I don't think you can.
Group dungeons will be extraordinarily easy to run through and burn everything down even without Proc Crits. Heck, you can skip boss mechanics through pure DPSing even with non-BiS gear and 400CP. They're just flat out easy for experienced players with good rotation knowledge. Only way to force all players to run through all boss mechanics in group dungeons is to remove CPs (horrible, horrible idea).
Endgame PvE in ESO refers to Vet trials. You must have BiS or near-BiS gear as a DPS to put out high damage. There is a threshold you must reach, and if you aren't there, you will be kicked unless you are friends with everyone and are knowingly getting carried. Warhorn will also have a high uptime (+30% Crit damage).
Now it is even more forced upon players to have BiS gear. When procs no longer crit, and your DPS drops by 7-8%, the difference is quite large.
You are not the only one playing the game. Like u said, those dungs are way too easy for u whether u use proc sets or not. Same applies for trials. Proc sets or not u will beat them cause u know how to adapt and complete the content. But when u have half ass players skipping dungeon boss mechanics because their gear is doing dmg for them then yes u have a problem. And as far as vet trials and experienced players are concerned the only difference is that its going to be a little harder to beat the trials now. Isnt that a good thing? That was one of the major issues in PVE. That everything was way too easy. Now that things are getting difficult its a bad thing? And regardless of how much time it takes to complete those trials. The issue with proc sets remains. They are doing way too much and they require absolutely no skill and thats a problem.
Again, you have no knowledge of endgame PvE.
Dungeons are easy for me because I am the very definition of a perfect PvE player. The 0.00001% or whatever. You don't find players like me unless you scramble to the top of the leaderboards or search for the very best. I also run with similarily-skilled players all the time. This is why group dungeons (non-DLC) are easy and don't need buffs at all. They shouldn't cater that content to players like me.
Tell all of the lowbies and PUGs in Group Finder that dungeons are too easy and their builds need nerfs cuz they're "half ass players". Run with CP100-200 players with bad gear and no rotations. These dungeons will not be faceroll at all.
Vet trials are not too easy, and no one ever said they were. The only way to run through them with ease is to run with 12 BiS, highly experienced, long-time players. Even PUGing Vet trials with good players is a total nightmare. No one thinks Vet trials need a buff.
By your logic, fights taking longer is a good thing. This alone shows you aren't a Vet trial runner. Fights take long enough as it is, and nerfing DPS just makes things worse for the already miniscule Trial community which consists of plenty of non-BiS players (who will now need to refarm just to put out good deeps if this nerf is big enough).
Leave it dude. Some people have no clue. Only those that have been in a trial and spent hours and hour hacking away will ever get it.
Trials as they are are boring with thr whole stack and burn jobs they entail. ..some have just never been there and done it to understand that taking 10+mins longer is actually quite a big deal. 10 mins can be the difference between a clear and wipe.
It's my fault.
In-game, I often help PUGs beat daily pledge group dungeons and they love me for it. Or I give people Mag Sorc advice. Or run Vet trials. That's how I play in ESO.
On the Forums you just can't prove to them you know what you're talking about by walking around with "The Flawless Conqueror" and Ilambris, BSW, and Aether/Moondancer gear. Even though I soloed vWGT and vCoS, some people (only on the Forums) will still be stubborn and say I'm wrong regarding obvious PvE stuff like Vet trials not needing to be buffed/take longer to complete. The same individuals don't even run the content they're arguing about.
I keep trying to help individuals like that understand but they're strictly here to argue. Makes me sad
No one is arguing about ur skill. But all u do here is arguing how this is going to affect u personally instead of looking at the bigger picture. When something is broken, u dont fix it by implementing something that is just as broken. If vet trials are not fun because they are taking too long the u adjust the damn trials. You dont implement broken sets to bump everyone's DPS so it wont take as long to complete them.1 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DRXHarbinger wrote: »SienneYviete wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Again ill say it,if this makes you unable to complete or compete in PvE it's a pure L2P issueWaffennacht wrote: »Again ill say it,if this makes you unable to complete or compete in PvE it's a pure L2P issue
@Waffennacht Thats obviously not the case there are about 10 other ways you can do very well and even better without Skoria. Doesnt take a genius to know that.
Its just a very unnessecary nerf to PVE players. Bosses have millions of health, you'll still be able to kill them but you'll just be in rotation for a bit longer now than before nothing to do with l2p
Again if you can complete it, it's not a problem. Having PvE take a bit longer is far worth the potential change in PvP. If you cannot beat PvE because your helm can't crit, you need to L2P it's really simple
86 million hit point hm rakkhat says hi, have you completed this content? Do you know the dps requirements to complete it? If not gtfo with your L2P argument it's invalid. People are complaining because instead of fixing a problem only affecting pvpers, a blanket nerf that won't even fix the issue itself which is duhhh proc set stacking is introduced. If people think this bandaid fix will stop them getting rekt by viper veli and widowmaker stacking then they are delusional. How hard would it be to just implement no set bonus crit as part of the battle spirit buff if that's the way they want to go. All this nerf will do is push people back into boring damage stacking builds which will ruin any last semblance of build diversity we have now.
PvPers tend not to think much. They don't care about PvE. Problem is, this change alone will not even fix a fraction of the current PvP imbalances.
The significant majority of the people here have never contributed truly good DPS in a Vet trial (or run a Vet trial). What's happening right now is the typical blanket style nerf that has always proved to hurt ESO.
I have no issue with ZOS putting this on PTS if class balance changes somehow at least mostly counteract the DPS loss in PvE. If not, and fights start taking a lot longer, then it's just another failure on ZOS's part.
I will save my judgement until PTS comes despite the mess it will create for my Mag Sorc. Hopefully things are not as bad as they seem.
So if fights start taking a lot longer to finish and people cant skip boss mechanics anymore then its a failure on ZOS part ?
Great
This is exactly what I was talking about! You're one of the clueless players
Try skipping boss mechanics in Vet trials. Show me how to take down Rakkhat in vMoL in 60sec. Same goes for other Vet trials. I don't think you can.
Group dungeons will be extraordinarily easy to run through and burn everything down even without Proc Crits. Heck, you can skip boss mechanics through pure DPSing even with non-BiS gear and 400CP. They're just flat out easy for experienced players with good rotation knowledge. Only way to force all players to run through all boss mechanics in group dungeons is to remove CPs (horrible, horrible idea).
Endgame PvE in ESO refers to Vet trials. You must have BiS or near-BiS gear as a DPS to put out high damage. There is a threshold you must reach, and if you aren't there, you will be kicked unless you are friends with everyone and are knowingly getting carried. Warhorn will also have a high uptime (+30% Crit damage).
Now it is even more forced upon players to have BiS gear. When procs no longer crit, and your DPS drops by 7-8%, the difference is quite large.
You are not the only one playing the game. Like u said, those dungs are way too easy for u whether u use proc sets or not. Same applies for trials. Proc sets or not u will beat them cause u know how to adapt and complete the content. But when u have half ass players skipping dungeon boss mechanics because their gear is doing dmg for them then yes u have a problem. And as far as vet trials and experienced players are concerned the only difference is that its going to be a little harder to beat the trials now. Isnt that a good thing? That was one of the major issues in PVE. That everything was way too easy. Now that things are getting difficult its a bad thing? And regardless of how much time it takes to complete those trials. The issue with proc sets remains. They are doing way too much and they require absolutely no skill and thats a problem.
Again, you have no knowledge of endgame PvE.
Dungeons are easy for me because I am the very definition of a perfect PvE player. The 0.00001% or whatever. You don't find players like me unless you scramble to the top of the leaderboards or search for the very best. I also run with similarily-skilled players all the time. This is why group dungeons (non-DLC) are easy and don't need buffs at all. They shouldn't cater that content to players like me.
Tell all of the lowbies and PUGs in Group Finder that dungeons are too easy and their builds need nerfs cuz they're "half ass players". Run with CP100-200 players with bad gear and no rotations. These dungeons will not be faceroll at all.
Vet trials are not too easy, and no one ever said they were. The only way to run through them with ease is to run with 12 BiS, highly experienced, long-time players. Even PUGing Vet trials with good players is a total nightmare. No one thinks Vet trials need a buff.
By your logic, fights taking longer is a good thing. This alone shows you aren't a Vet trial runner. Fights take long enough as it is, and nerfing DPS just makes things worse for the already miniscule Trial community which consists of plenty of non-BiS players (who will now need to refarm just to put out good deeps if this nerf is big enough).
Leave it dude. Some people have no clue. Only those that have been in a trial and spent hours and hour hacking away will ever get it.
Trials as they are are boring with thr whole stack and burn jobs they entail. ..some have just never been there and done it to understand that taking 10+mins longer is actually quite a big deal. 10 mins can be the difference between a clear and wipe.
Thats a problem with trial design. Just because trials are taking too long it doesnt mean proc sets are fine. If u have a problem with how the trials are designed then stop doing trials or ask for them to be redesigned. Instead of telling people that they have no clue how about u stop thinking about urself and how this is going to affect you personally and look at the bigger picture. You are not the only one playing this game.
Yeah @DRXHarbinger you should know better! You're selfish
And how dare you question this change! The problem is obviously not that eliminating proc set Crits in PvE (where you rely on Crits) could cause issues, but rather that you should be petitioning for trials to be completely redesigned. Obviously! Use logic
So selfish >_>1 -
Mojomonkeyman✭✭✭✭✭
✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »SienneYviete wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Again ill say it,if this makes you unable to complete or compete in PvE it's a pure L2P issueWaffennacht wrote: »Again ill say it,if this makes you unable to complete or compete in PvE it's a pure L2P issue
@Waffennacht Thats obviously not the case there are about 10 other ways you can do very well and even better without Skoria. Doesnt take a genius to know that.
Its just a very unnessecary nerf to PVE players. Bosses have millions of health, you'll still be able to kill them but you'll just be in rotation for a bit longer now than before nothing to do with l2p
Again if you can complete it, it's not a problem. Having PvE take a bit longer is far worth the potential change in PvP. If you cannot beat PvE because your helm can't crit, you need to L2P it's really simple
86 million hit point hm rakkhat says hi, have you completed this content? Do you know the dps requirements to complete it? If not gtfo with your L2P argument it's invalid. People are complaining because instead of fixing a problem only affecting pvpers, a blanket nerf that won't even fix the issue itself which is duhhh proc set stacking is introduced. If people think this bandaid fix will stop them getting rekt by viper veli and widowmaker stacking then they are delusional. How hard would it be to just implement no set bonus crit as part of the battle spirit buff if that's the way they want to go. All this nerf will do is push people back into boring damage stacking builds which will ruin any last semblance of build diversity we have now.
PvPers tend not to think much. They don't care about PvE. Problem is, this change alone will not even fix a fraction of the current PvP imbalances.
The significant majority of the people here have never contributed truly good DPS in a Vet trial (or run a Vet trial). What's happening right now is the typical blanket style nerf that has always proved to hurt ESO.
I have no issue with ZOS putting this on PTS if class balance changes somehow at least mostly counteract the DPS loss in PvE. If not, and fights start taking a lot longer, then it's just another failure on ZOS's part.
I will save my judgement until PTS comes despite the mess it will create for my Mag Sorc. Hopefully things are not as bad as they seem.
So if fights start taking a lot longer to finish and people cant skip boss mechanics anymore then its a failure on ZOS part ?
Great
This is exactly what I was talking about! You're one of the clueless players
Try skipping boss mechanics in Vet trials. Show me how to take down Rakkhat in vMoL in 60sec. Same goes for other Vet trials. I don't think you can.
Group dungeons will be extraordinarily easy to run through and burn everything down even without Proc Crits. Heck, you can skip boss mechanics through pure DPSing even with non-BiS gear and 400CP. They're just flat out easy for experienced players with good rotation knowledge. Only way to force all players to run through all boss mechanics in group dungeons is to remove CPs (horrible, horrible idea).
Endgame PvE in ESO refers to Vet trials. You must have BiS or near-BiS gear as a DPS to put out high damage. There is a threshold you must reach, and if you aren't there, you will be kicked unless you are friends with everyone and are knowingly getting carried. Warhorn will also have a high uptime (+30% Crit damage).
Now it is even more forced upon players to have BiS gear. When procs no longer crit, and your DPS drops by 7-8%, the difference is quite large.
You are not the only one playing the game. Like u said, those dungs are way too easy for u whether u use proc sets or not. Same applies for trials. Proc sets or not u will beat them cause u know how to adapt and complete the content. But when u have half ass players skipping dungeon boss mechanics because their gear is doing dmg for them then yes u have a problem. And as far as vet trials and experienced players are concerned the only difference is that its going to be a little harder to beat the trials now. Isnt that a good thing? That was one of the major issues in PVE. That everything was way too easy. Now that things are getting difficult its a bad thing? And regardless of how much time it takes to complete those trials. The issue with proc sets remains. They are doing way too much and they require absolutely no skill and thats a problem.
Again, you have no knowledge of endgame PvE.
Dungeons are easy for me because I am the very definition of a perfect PvE player. The 0.00001% or whatever. You don't find players like me unless you scramble to the top of the leaderboards or search for the very best. I also run with similarily-skilled players all the time. This is why group dungeons (non-DLC) are easy and don't need buffs at all. They shouldn't cater that content to players like me.
Tell all of the lowbies and PUGs in Group Finder that dungeons are too easy and their builds need nerfs cuz they're "half ass players". Run with CP100-200 players with bad gear and no rotations. These dungeons will not be faceroll at all.
Vet trials are not too easy, and no one ever said they were. The only way to run through them with ease is to run with 12 BiS, highly experienced, long-time players. Even PUGing Vet trials with good players is a total nightmare. No one thinks Vet trials need a buff.
By your logic, fights taking longer is a good thing. This alone shows you aren't a Vet trial runner. Fights take long enough as it is, and nerfing DPS just makes things worse for the already miniscule Trial community which consists of plenty of non-BiS players (who will now need to refarm just to put out good deeps if this nerf is big enough).
Oh please dude, can you make so it that I`m not forced to dig through massively disgusting self-praise everytime I try to gather some valuable input from your posts? Thanks, appreciated.
That's your issue. This isn't self-praise. It's an attempt to help an ignorant individual like yourself understand that Vet Fungral Grotto 1 and Vet Maw of Lorkhaj are on different difficulty levels, despite the "Veteran" tag. You simply haven't run the content and honestly probably never will.
I find content easy that 99% of players won't find easy. Just because I think vMA is easy, does not mean that will ever need a buff.
No one thinks Vet trails are too easy and need buffs. Saying that because you think group dungeons need to be harder and therefore Vet trials need to as well makes no sense.
You are prone to gathering valuable input because you're already stuck in your beliefs on this. As they say, you can't fix stupid.
Reread everything I've said to you and you might understand one day. That's all.
You are such a funny little clown... that`s your reply? Filled with assumptions and insults?
Grow up, scrub.Edited by Mojomonkeyman on December 28, 2016 11:32AMKoma Grey, Chocolate Thunder, Little Mojo, Dagoth Mojo & Mojomancy6 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SienneYviete wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Again ill say it,if this makes you unable to complete or compete in PvE it's a pure L2P issueWaffennacht wrote: »Again ill say it,if this makes you unable to complete or compete in PvE it's a pure L2P issue
@Waffennacht Thats obviously not the case there are about 10 other ways you can do very well and even better without Skoria. Doesnt take a genius to know that.
Its just a very unnessecary nerf to PVE players. Bosses have millions of health, you'll still be able to kill them but you'll just be in rotation for a bit longer now than before nothing to do with l2p
Again if you can complete it, it's not a problem. Having PvE take a bit longer is far worth the potential change in PvP. If you cannot beat PvE because your helm can't crit, you need to L2P it's really simple
86 million hit point hm rakkhat says hi, have you completed this content? Do you know the dps requirements to complete it? If not gtfo with your L2P argument it's invalid. People are complaining because instead of fixing a problem only affecting pvpers, a blanket nerf that won't even fix the issue itself which is duhhh proc set stacking is introduced. If people think this bandaid fix will stop them getting rekt by viper veli and widowmaker stacking then they are delusional. How hard would it be to just implement no set bonus crit as part of the battle spirit buff if that's the way they want to go. All this nerf will do is push people back into boring damage stacking builds which will ruin any last semblance of build diversity we have now.
PvPers tend not to think much. They don't care about PvE. Problem is, this change alone will not even fix a fraction of the current PvP imbalances.
The significant majority of the people here have never contributed truly good DPS in a Vet trial (or run a Vet trial). What's happening right now is the typical blanket style nerf that has always proved to hurt ESO.
I have no issue with ZOS putting this on PTS if class balance changes somehow at least mostly counteract the DPS loss in PvE. If not, and fights start taking a lot longer, then it's just another failure on ZOS's part.
I will save my judgement until PTS comes despite the mess it will create for my Mag Sorc. Hopefully things are not as bad as they seem.
So if fights start taking a lot longer to finish and people cant skip boss mechanics anymore then its a failure on ZOS part ?
Great
This is exactly what I was talking about! You're one of the clueless players
Try skipping boss mechanics in Vet trials. Show me how to take down Rakkhat in vMoL in 60sec. Same goes for other Vet trials. I don't think you can.
Group dungeons will be extraordinarily easy to run through and burn everything down even without Proc Crits. Heck, you can skip boss mechanics through pure DPSing even with non-BiS gear and 400CP. They're just flat out easy for experienced players with good rotation knowledge. Only way to force all players to run through all boss mechanics in group dungeons is to remove CPs (horrible, horrible idea).
Endgame PvE in ESO refers to Vet trials. You must have BiS or near-BiS gear as a DPS to put out high damage. There is a threshold you must reach, and if you aren't there, you will be kicked unless you are friends with everyone and are knowingly getting carried. Warhorn will also have a high uptime (+30% Crit damage).
Now it is even more forced upon players to have BiS gear. When procs no longer crit, and your DPS drops by 7-8%, the difference is quite large.
You are not the only one playing the game. Like u said, those dungs are way too easy for u whether u use proc sets or not. Same applies for trials. Proc sets or not u will beat them cause u know how to adapt and complete the content. But when u have half ass players skipping dungeon boss mechanics because their gear is doing dmg for them then yes u have a problem. And as far as vet trials and experienced players are concerned the only difference is that its going to be a little harder to beat the trials now. Isnt that a good thing? That was one of the major issues in PVE. That everything was way too easy. Now that things are getting difficult its a bad thing? And regardless of how much time it takes to complete those trials. The issue with proc sets remains. They are doing way too much and they require absolutely no skill and thats a problem.
Again, you have no knowledge of endgame PvE.
Dungeons are easy for me because I am the very definition of a perfect PvE player. The 0.00001% or whatever. You don't find players like me unless you scramble to the top of the leaderboards or search for the very best. I also run with similarily-skilled players all the time. This is why group dungeons (non-DLC) are easy and don't need buffs at all. They shouldn't cater that content to players like me.
Tell all of the lowbies and PUGs in Group Finder that dungeons are too easy and their builds need nerfs cuz they're "half ass players". Run with CP100-200 players with bad gear and no rotations. These dungeons will not be faceroll at all.
Vet trials are not too easy, and no one ever said they were. The only way to run through them with ease is to run with 12 BiS, highly experienced, long-time players. Even PUGing Vet trials with good players is a total nightmare. No one thinks Vet trials need a buff.
By your logic, fights taking longer is a good thing. This alone shows you aren't a Vet trial runner. Fights take long enough as it is, and nerfing DPS just makes things worse for the already miniscule Trial community which consists of plenty of non-BiS players (who will now need to refarm just to put out good deeps if this nerf is big enough).
The first paragraph wasnt really needed. Thats exactly what i said. You are among the best and u will adapt.
That doesnt mean we are talking about the extreme opposite. If i run with players with bad gear and no rotation then ofc it wont be faceroll. We are not talking about those players. We are talking about the players that put on procs and suddenly start pulling good numbers even with a bad rotation. Thats broken. Thats what im saying. Its the same issue with PVP. Suddenly everyone is competitive cause the gear is doing the dmg for them. You want to pull good numbers and complete content then do it with ur skill.
Vet trials were designed to take a long time. If u dont like fights that are taking too long then maybe u shouldnt run vet trials. And if this nerf means that non BiS players wont be able to complete it then so be it. Its the hardest content of the game. It should require BiS players to complete it. Why is that bad?
@SienneYviete you'll love what this guy said lol.
In PvP, procs are an issue because the OP sets (Viper, Tremor, etc) provide high burst damage. PvP is based heavily on burst, causing certain sets to burst players down far too easily and quickly, with 50% of their damage coming from procs. That's broken.
Proc sets are not carrying people for PvE DPS. No one is pulling good numbers because of their proc sets. They never have and never will, because PvE DPS is dependant on DoTs you place by skill casts and a good rotation/build. There are some strong proc sets for PvE (Ilambris, Grothdarr) but no one is getting their DPS utterly carried by them like you make it sound.
Vet trials are designed for 12 players, not to simply "take long". They take long enough as it is especially in PUG-style groups. Eliminating Proc Crits altogether makes them take even longer (not a needed change at all).
To sum it up - If you ran Vet trials you'd never make these comments of yours.
Lmao. Thats exactly what i said about PVP. How about u go back and read it again. Proc sets are doing the dmg for u and they need absolutely no skill. What was so hard to understand?
And yes people can pull good numbers because of procs. If this wasnt the case then why does everyone started bitching about how this is ruining their builds and it game changing.
And vet trials were designed to take long. Its not debatable. The devs said it.1 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DRXHarbinger wrote: »SienneYviete wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Again ill say it,if this makes you unable to complete or compete in PvE it's a pure L2P issueWaffennacht wrote: »Again ill say it,if this makes you unable to complete or compete in PvE it's a pure L2P issue
@Waffennacht Thats obviously not the case there are about 10 other ways you can do very well and even better without Skoria. Doesnt take a genius to know that.
Its just a very unnessecary nerf to PVE players. Bosses have millions of health, you'll still be able to kill them but you'll just be in rotation for a bit longer now than before nothing to do with l2p
Again if you can complete it, it's not a problem. Having PvE take a bit longer is far worth the potential change in PvP. If you cannot beat PvE because your helm can't crit, you need to L2P it's really simple
86 million hit point hm rakkhat says hi, have you completed this content? Do you know the dps requirements to complete it? If not gtfo with your L2P argument it's invalid. People are complaining because instead of fixing a problem only affecting pvpers, a blanket nerf that won't even fix the issue itself which is duhhh proc set stacking is introduced. If people think this bandaid fix will stop them getting rekt by viper veli and widowmaker stacking then they are delusional. How hard would it be to just implement no set bonus crit as part of the battle spirit buff if that's the way they want to go. All this nerf will do is push people back into boring damage stacking builds which will ruin any last semblance of build diversity we have now.
PvPers tend not to think much. They don't care about PvE. Problem is, this change alone will not even fix a fraction of the current PvP imbalances.
The significant majority of the people here have never contributed truly good DPS in a Vet trial (or run a Vet trial). What's happening right now is the typical blanket style nerf that has always proved to hurt ESO.
I have no issue with ZOS putting this on PTS if class balance changes somehow at least mostly counteract the DPS loss in PvE. If not, and fights start taking a lot longer, then it's just another failure on ZOS's part.
I will save my judgement until PTS comes despite the mess it will create for my Mag Sorc. Hopefully things are not as bad as they seem.
So if fights start taking a lot longer to finish and people cant skip boss mechanics anymore then its a failure on ZOS part ?
Great
This is exactly what I was talking about! You're one of the clueless players
Try skipping boss mechanics in Vet trials. Show me how to take down Rakkhat in vMoL in 60sec. Same goes for other Vet trials. I don't think you can.
Group dungeons will be extraordinarily easy to run through and burn everything down even without Proc Crits. Heck, you can skip boss mechanics through pure DPSing even with non-BiS gear and 400CP. They're just flat out easy for experienced players with good rotation knowledge. Only way to force all players to run through all boss mechanics in group dungeons is to remove CPs (horrible, horrible idea).
Endgame PvE in ESO refers to Vet trials. You must have BiS or near-BiS gear as a DPS to put out high damage. There is a threshold you must reach, and if you aren't there, you will be kicked unless you are friends with everyone and are knowingly getting carried. Warhorn will also have a high uptime (+30% Crit damage).
Now it is even more forced upon players to have BiS gear. When procs no longer crit, and your DPS drops by 7-8%, the difference is quite large.
You are not the only one playing the game. Like u said, those dungs are way too easy for u whether u use proc sets or not. Same applies for trials. Proc sets or not u will beat them cause u know how to adapt and complete the content. But when u have half ass players skipping dungeon boss mechanics because their gear is doing dmg for them then yes u have a problem. And as far as vet trials and experienced players are concerned the only difference is that its going to be a little harder to beat the trials now. Isnt that a good thing? That was one of the major issues in PVE. That everything was way too easy. Now that things are getting difficult its a bad thing? And regardless of how much time it takes to complete those trials. The issue with proc sets remains. They are doing way too much and they require absolutely no skill and thats a problem.
Again, you have no knowledge of endgame PvE.
Dungeons are easy for me because I am the very definition of a perfect PvE player. The 0.00001% or whatever. You don't find players like me unless you scramble to the top of the leaderboards or search for the very best. I also run with similarily-skilled players all the time. This is why group dungeons (non-DLC) are easy and don't need buffs at all. They shouldn't cater that content to players like me.
Tell all of the lowbies and PUGs in Group Finder that dungeons are too easy and their builds need nerfs cuz they're "half ass players". Run with CP100-200 players with bad gear and no rotations. These dungeons will not be faceroll at all.
Vet trials are not too easy, and no one ever said they were. The only way to run through them with ease is to run with 12 BiS, highly experienced, long-time players. Even PUGing Vet trials with good players is a total nightmare. No one thinks Vet trials need a buff.
By your logic, fights taking longer is a good thing. This alone shows you aren't a Vet trial runner. Fights take long enough as it is, and nerfing DPS just makes things worse for the already miniscule Trial community which consists of plenty of non-BiS players (who will now need to refarm just to put out good deeps if this nerf is big enough).
Leave it dude. Some people have no clue. Only those that have been in a trial and spent hours and hour hacking away will ever get it.
Trials as they are are boring with thr whole stack and burn jobs they entail. ..some have just never been there and done it to understand that taking 10+mins longer is actually quite a big deal. 10 mins can be the difference between a clear and wipe.
Thats a problem with trial design. Just because trials are taking too long it doesnt mean proc sets are fine. If u have a problem with how the trials are designed then stop doing trials or ask for them to be redesigned. Instead of telling people that they have no clue how about u stop thinking about urself and how this is going to affect you personally and look at the bigger picture. You are not the only one playing this game.
Yeah @DRXHarbinger you should know better! You're selfish
And how dare you question this change! The problem is obviously not that eliminating proc set Crits in PvE (where you rely on Crits) could cause issues, but rather that you should be petitioning for trials to be completely redesigned. Obviously! Use logic
So selfish >_>
Yeah how dare u have a problem with trials and ask for them to be adjusted. You should instead ask for something that affects the entire game to fix the problem that u have. Obviously. Use logic. Edited by pieratsos on December 28, 2016 11:54AM1 -
GreenSoup2HoT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Imho monster sets were just flat out to strong. It wasn't the decisions of the player killing me but rather monster sets. Grotharr will still be a very solid set in my opinion for keeping nightblades out of stealth. Veldrith still good for that extra burst after Dawnbreaker as another example.
What i like most about this change is that its basically a buff to my build that does not utilize monster sets now that they are not as effective (for pvp).
I can't wait to see the pts patch notes.PS4 NA DC0 -
DRXHarbinger✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DRXHarbinger wrote: »SienneYviete wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Again ill say it,if this makes you unable to complete or compete in PvE it's a pure L2P issueWaffennacht wrote: »Again ill say it,if this makes you unable to complete or compete in PvE it's a pure L2P issue
@Waffennacht Thats obviously not the case there are about 10 other ways you can do very well and even better without Skoria. Doesnt take a genius to know that.
Its just a very unnessecary nerf to PVE players. Bosses have millions of health, you'll still be able to kill them but you'll just be in rotation for a bit longer now than before nothing to do with l2p
Again if you can complete it, it's not a problem. Having PvE take a bit longer is far worth the potential change in PvP. If you cannot beat PvE because your helm can't crit, you need to L2P it's really simple
86 million hit point hm rakkhat says hi, have you completed this content? Do you know the dps requirements to complete it? If not gtfo with your L2P argument it's invalid. People are complaining because instead of fixing a problem only affecting pvpers, a blanket nerf that won't even fix the issue itself which is duhhh proc set stacking is introduced. If people think this bandaid fix will stop them getting rekt by viper veli and widowmaker stacking then they are delusional. How hard would it be to just implement no set bonus crit as part of the battle spirit buff if that's the way they want to go. All this nerf will do is push people back into boring damage stacking builds which will ruin any last semblance of build diversity we have now.
PvPers tend not to think much. They don't care about PvE. Problem is, this change alone will not even fix a fraction of the current PvP imbalances.
The significant majority of the people here have never contributed truly good DPS in a Vet trial (or run a Vet trial). What's happening right now is the typical blanket style nerf that has always proved to hurt ESO.
I have no issue with ZOS putting this on PTS if class balance changes somehow at least mostly counteract the DPS loss in PvE. If not, and fights start taking a lot longer, then it's just another failure on ZOS's part.
I will save my judgement until PTS comes despite the mess it will create for my Mag Sorc. Hopefully things are not as bad as they seem.
So if fights start taking a lot longer to finish and people cant skip boss mechanics anymore then its a failure on ZOS part ?
Great
This is exactly what I was talking about! You're one of the clueless players
Try skipping boss mechanics in Vet trials. Show me how to take down Rakkhat in vMoL in 60sec. Same goes for other Vet trials. I don't think you can.
Group dungeons will be extraordinarily easy to run through and burn everything down even without Proc Crits. Heck, you can skip boss mechanics through pure DPSing even with non-BiS gear and 400CP. They're just flat out easy for experienced players with good rotation knowledge. Only way to force all players to run through all boss mechanics in group dungeons is to remove CPs (horrible, horrible idea).
Endgame PvE in ESO refers to Vet trials. You must have BiS or near-BiS gear as a DPS to put out high damage. There is a threshold you must reach, and if you aren't there, you will be kicked unless you are friends with everyone and are knowingly getting carried. Warhorn will also have a high uptime (+30% Crit damage).
Now it is even more forced upon players to have BiS gear. When procs no longer crit, and your DPS drops by 7-8%, the difference is quite large.
You are not the only one playing the game. Like u said, those dungs are way too easy for u whether u use proc sets or not. Same applies for trials. Proc sets or not u will beat them cause u know how to adapt and complete the content. But when u have half ass players skipping dungeon boss mechanics because their gear is doing dmg for them then yes u have a problem. And as far as vet trials and experienced players are concerned the only difference is that its going to be a little harder to beat the trials now. Isnt that a good thing? That was one of the major issues in PVE. That everything was way too easy. Now that things are getting difficult its a bad thing? And regardless of how much time it takes to complete those trials. The issue with proc sets remains. They are doing way too much and they require absolutely no skill and thats a problem.
Again, you have no knowledge of endgame PvE.
Dungeons are easy for me because I am the very definition of a perfect PvE player. The 0.00001% or whatever. You don't find players like me unless you scramble to the top of the leaderboards or search for the very best. I also run with similarily-skilled players all the time. This is why group dungeons (non-DLC) are easy and don't need buffs at all. They shouldn't cater that content to players like me.
Tell all of the lowbies and PUGs in Group Finder that dungeons are too easy and their builds need nerfs cuz they're "half ass players". Run with CP100-200 players with bad gear and no rotations. These dungeons will not be faceroll at all.
Vet trials are not too easy, and no one ever said they were. The only way to run through them with ease is to run with 12 BiS, highly experienced, long-time players. Even PUGing Vet trials with good players is a total nightmare. No one thinks Vet trials need a buff.
By your logic, fights taking longer is a good thing. This alone shows you aren't a Vet trial runner. Fights take long enough as it is, and nerfing DPS just makes things worse for the already miniscule Trial community which consists of plenty of non-BiS players (who will now need to refarm just to put out good deeps if this nerf is big enough).
Leave it dude. Some people have no clue. Only those that have been in a trial and spent hours and hour hacking away will ever get it.
Trials as they are are boring with thr whole stack and burn jobs they entail. ..some have just never been there and done it to understand that taking 10+mins longer is actually quite a big deal. 10 mins can be the difference between a clear and wipe.
Thats a problem with trial design. Just because trials are taking too long it doesnt mean proc sets are fine. If u have a problem with how the trials are designed then stop doing trials or ask for them to be redesigned. Instead of telling people that they have no clue how about u stop thinking about urself and how this is going to affect you personally and look at the bigger picture. You are not the only one playing this game.
Yeah @DRXHarbinger you should know better! You're selfish
And how dare you question this change! The problem is obviously not that eliminating proc set Crits in PvE (where you rely on Crits) could cause issues, but rather that you should be petitioning for trials to be completely redesigned. Obviously! Use logic
So selfish >_>
Understood. Tying the rope now as we speak.PC Master Race
1001CP
8 Flawless Toons, all Classes.
Master Angler
Dro-M'artha Destroyer (at last)
Tamriel Hero
Grand Overlord
Every Skyshard
Down With BOP!1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭mihran.akopyan_ESO wrote: »I swear... no one mentions Skoria. Anyways....
Thanks to the recent @KenaPKK , magicka nightblade build video. Skoria was a really good set to use (with alchemist and spinner) that provided an additional burst potential for mNB build. I have a good feeling that with No crit dmg Skoria will loose its BIS title, but still be good set to have.
So question to all the pro mNBs out there. Are you gona keep Skoria or will you change it for something else ?
@mihran.akopyan_ESO
We only have a small piece of information ATM. Until PTS for the next update opens we do not know the entire picture.
Additionally, this is the very reason to test on the PTS server and provide worthy feedback on the changes. (yes, I know Zos cannot setup test servers for console).0 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
@SienneYviete you'll love what this guy said lol.
In PvP, procs are an issue because the OP sets (Viper, Tremor, etc) provide high burst damage. PvP is based heavily on burst, causing certain sets to burst players down far too easily and quickly, with 50% of their damage coming from procs. That's broken.
I wish this part is what we were discussing rather than trying to determine whether this change should be applied to PvE. If this is indeed; as a result of how proc sets affect PvP, then the change will be minimal and doesn't address the real issue.
1 -
mb10✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Again ill say it,if this makes you unable to complete or compete in PvE it's a pure L2P issueWaffennacht wrote: »Again ill say it,if this makes you unable to complete or compete in PvE it's a pure L2P issue
@Waffennacht Thats obviously not the case there are about 10 other ways you can do very well and even better without Skoria. Doesnt take a genius to know that.
Its just a very unnessecary nerf to PVE players. Bosses have millions of health, you'll still be able to kill them but you'll just be in rotation for a bit longer now than before nothing to do with l2p
Again if you can complete it, it's not a problem. Having PvE take a bit longer is far worth the potential change in PvP. If you cannot beat PvE because your helm can't crit, you need to L2P it's really simple
@Waffennacht
well im definitely better than you so its more your problem than mine tbh0 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Everyone is on board with nerfing the stam procs, but are up in arms when their magicka proc sets get nerfed. I don't agree with the nerf for PvE, but skoria, grothdar, and every other magicka proc set needed to be nerfed along with the stam versions.0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭0 -
thankyourat✭✭✭✭✭
✭Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Just keep using it? PvP impen means very little change really for skoria
I dont think its a "very little change", most people run less than 1.8k impen and the least experienced ones (which are legion in cyrodiil) dont run anything, hell theres a reason I always run thief or shadow on my nb solo builds. But yeah to keep it is an option.mihran.akopyan_ESO wrote: »Thats not the kind of question you can answer before seeing the whole patch note and having tested on pts.
Yeh your are probably right. But lets say ... it happened. what would you swap it with. I am thinking Kena or 1x spell dmg head and 1 x magicka revovery shoulder. ORRRR heck I could go with monster set that gives more ult points.
Thats the joyce of theorycrafting, but for now wait and see
I just wanna point out the concept of "winning more" - it's very common in TCGs.
Basically the idea is, in order to accomplish your goal you are required to be in a position of dominance already, or to say what is required would already be enough to win.
Aka if you're opponent is inexperienced and or no impen (and should have some) you're already gonna win despite the added dps of skoria critting.
Where you would need that edge is against an experienced player, but because they're experienced they'll have impen (if they should) therefore the added advantage of crit is further minimzed.
Aka if you're playin scrubs, the changes don't matter, if you're playin a pro, the changes don't matter - kind of thought process
Edit: this is regarding magicka and skoria, as we cannot stack as many proc sets or crit chance as stam builds. It seems to me the stam proc stack builds will be more greatly effected
It does in 1vX.
Skoria is only good for mageblade 1vX, it targets dead players around you, can't afford to have rng to determine if your rng hits a living enemy or some scrub you already melted.
I think skoria is best in slot 1v1 and 1vX for magblade. Because it adds that added burst that magblades need. Often times I would need it to finish off tanky opponents like stam dks when assasins will plus soul harvest combo just wasn't enough. It also allows you to put added pressure on mag dks which you wouldn't other wise be able to do because skoria procs on heavy resto attacks1 -
the_man_of_steal✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Just keep using it? PvP impen means very little change really for skoria
This is the most paramount point so far.... I was discussing it with my guild last night and a very feared and highly skilled PVP player brought this up:
Almost anyone in Cyrodiil who knows what they're doing these days is running a minimum of 2000 impen. So the crit nerf is virtually non existent but meanwhile crits in PVE are absolutely essential in hard mode trials. What the heck is ZOS thinking!?
This change only serves to thwart PVE trial groups and does virtually nothing to experienced black rose/proccing PVP players.
My heart goes out to those who only want to stay in PVE zones and I feel bad for intermediate and beginning PVP players who don't realize this change is a fugazee
Cheers Everyone, Happy Holidays to all!0 -
thankyourat✭✭✭✭✭
✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »Everyone is on board with nerfing the stam procs, but are up in arms when their magicka proc sets get nerfed. I don't agree with the nerf for PvE, but skoria, grothdar, and every other magicka proc set needed to be nerfed along with the stam versions.
The thing about skoria is it has a low proc chance, only procs off dots, and is highly telegraphed. You actually have to be skillful to land skoria or it will just be blocked. Grathdar is trash in PvP I used it one day and now it just sits in my bank. Skoria is also used mostly on classes who lack constant burst damage. It's completely different than viper which has a 100% proc chance and procs every 4 seconds and tremorscale and that toxic snare. Plus you can't stack magicka proc sets because they are all dungeon sets. They really weren't a problem. It was really no reason to nerf them.Edited by thankyourat on December 28, 2016 3:31PM0 -
the_man_of_steal✭✭✭SienneYviete wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Again ill say it,if this makes you unable to complete or compete in PvE it's a pure L2P issueWaffennacht wrote: »Again ill say it,if this makes you unable to complete or compete in PvE it's a pure L2P issue
@Waffennacht Thats obviously not the case there are about 10 other ways you can do very well and even better without Skoria. Doesnt take a genius to know that.
Its just a very unnessecary nerf to PVE players. Bosses have millions of health, you'll still be able to kill them but you'll just be in rotation for a bit longer now than before nothing to do with l2p
Again if you can complete it, it's not a problem. Having PvE take a bit longer is far worth the potential change in PvP. If you cannot beat PvE because your helm can't crit, you need to L2P it's really simple
86 million hit point hm rakkhat says hi, have you completed this content? Do you know the dps requirements to complete it? If not gtfo with your L2P argument it's invalid. People are complaining because instead of fixing a problem only affecting pvpers, a blanket nerf that won't even fix the issue itself which is duhhh proc set stacking is introduced. If people think this bandaid fix will stop them getting rekt by viper veli and widowmaker stacking then they are delusional. How hard would it be to just implement no set bonus crit as part of the battle spirit buff if that's the way they want to go. All this nerf will do is push people back into boring damage stacking builds which will ruin any last semblance of build diversity we have now.
PvPers tend not to think much. They don't care about PvE. Problem is, this change alone will not even fix a fraction of the current PvP imbalances.
The significant majority of the people here have never contributed truly good DPS in a Vet trial (or run a Vet trial). What's happening right now is the typical blanket style nerf that has always proved to hurt ESO.
I have no issue with ZOS putting this on PTS if class balance changes somehow at least mostly counteract the DPS loss in PvE. If not, and fights start taking a lot longer, then it's just another failure on ZOS's part.
I will save my judgement until PTS comes despite the mess it will create for my Mag Sorc. Hopefully things are not as bad as they seem.
So if fights start taking a lot longer to finish and people cant skip boss mechanics anymore then its a failure on ZOS part ?
Great
This is exactly what I was talking about! You're one of the clueless players
Try skipping boss mechanics in Vet trials. Show me how to take down Rakkhat in vMoL in 60sec. Same goes for other Vet trials. I don't think you can.
Group dungeons will be extraordinarily easy to run through and burn everything down even without Proc Crits. Heck, you can skip boss mechanics through pure DPSing even with non-BiS gear and 400CP. They're just flat out easy for experienced players with good rotation knowledge. Only way to force all players to run through all boss mechanics in group dungeons is to remove CPs (horrible, horrible idea).
Endgame PvE in ESO refers to Vet trials. You must have BiS or near-BiS gear as a DPS to put out high damage. There is a threshold you must reach, and if you aren't there, you will be kicked unless you are friends with everyone and are knowingly getting carried. Warhorn will also have a high uptime (+30% Crit damage).
Now it is even more forced upon players to have BiS gear. When procs no longer crit, and your DPS drops by 7-8%, the difference is quite large.
You are not the only one playing the game. Like u said, those dungs are way too easy for u whether u use proc sets or not. Same applies for trials. Proc sets or not u will beat them cause u know how to adapt and complete the content. But when u have half ass players skipping dungeon boss mechanics because their gear is doing dmg for them then yes u have a problem. And as far as vet trials and experienced players are concerned the only difference is that its going to be a little harder to beat the trials now. Isnt that a good thing? That was one of the major issues in PVE. That everything was way too easy. Now that things are getting difficult its a bad thing? And regardless of how much time it takes to complete those trials. The issue with proc sets remains. They are doing way too much and they require absolutely no skill and thats a problem.
Again, you have no knowledge of endgame PvE.
Dungeons are easy for me because I am the very definition of a perfect PvE player. The 0.00001% or whatever. You don't find players like me unless you scramble to the top of the leaderboards or search for the very best. I also run with similarily-skilled players all the time. This is why group dungeons (non-DLC) are easy and don't need buffs at all. They shouldn't cater that content to players like me.
Tell all of the lowbies and PUGs in Group Finder that dungeons are too easy and their builds need nerfs cuz they're "half ass players". Run with CP100-200 players with bad gear and no rotations. These dungeons will not be faceroll at all.
Vet trials are not too easy, and no one ever said they were. The only way to run through them with ease is to run with 12 BiS, highly experienced, long-time players. Even PUGing Vet trials with good players is a total nightmare. No one thinks Vet trials need a buff.
By your logic, fights taking longer is a good thing. This alone shows you aren't a Vet trial runner. Fights take long enough as it is, and nerfing DPS just makes things worse for the already miniscule Trial community which consists of plenty of non-BiS players (who will now need to refarm just to put out good deeps if this nerf is big enough).
The first paragraph wasnt really needed. Thats exactly what i said. You are among the best and u will adapt.
That doesnt mean we are talking about the extreme opposite. If i run with players with bad gear and no rotation then ofc it wont be faceroll. We are not talking about those players. We are talking about the players that put on procs and suddenly start pulling good numbers even with a bad rotation. Thats broken. Thats what im saying. Its the same issue with PVP. Suddenly everyone is competitive cause the gear is doing the dmg for them. You want to pull good numbers and complete content then do it with ur skill.
Vet trials were designed to take a long time. If u dont like fights that are taking too long then maybe u shouldnt run vet trials. And if this nerf means that non BiS players wont be able to complete it then so be it. Its the hardest content of the game. It should require BiS players to complete it. Why is that bad?
The best players and most organized groups will most surely adapt and be fine. But there are still a number of valid issues you are discounting here:
1) The beginning of this game was a complete elite fest and if you didnt have "that one set" you were excluded from being able to even attempt something difficult. It is a poisonous environment that many skilled players even complained about because even with a highly skilled and organized group, to get the best gear requires: time for everyone to be on and luck from RNG
2) The reason they are doing the nerf is for PVP's benefit and no one was complaining about the PVE environment or builds in these or any forums as of late. PVE has actually been quite stellar with the exception of lag, some glitches, and farm bots. So to make a nerf intended to make PVP better, but the results are in fact nerfing PVE and also a virtual non change for PVP makes these changes completely unnecessary.0 -
mb10✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »
@Waffennacht OBVIOUSLY content will still be able to be completed. Literally nobody has said it wouldn't be.
And if you know, you know.0 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭thankyourat wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »Everyone is on board with nerfing the stam procs, but are up in arms when their magicka proc sets get nerfed. I don't agree with the nerf for PvE, but skoria, grothdar, and every other magicka proc set needed to be nerfed along with the stam versions.
The thing about skoria is it has a low proc chance, only procs off dots, and is highly telegraphed. You actually have to be skillful to land skoria or it will just be blocked. Grathdar is trash in PvP I used it one day and now it just sits in my bank. Skoria is also used mostly on classes who lack constant burst damage. It's completely different than viper which has a 100% proc chance and procs every 4 seconds and tremorscale and that toxic snare. Plus you can't stack magicka proc sets because they are all dungeon sets. They really weren't a problem. It was really no reason to nerf them.
Grothdar is not trash at all in PvP, and Skoria procs quite often. You're downplaying these sets. Yes they should be nerfed, and if were up to me every proc set would be removed. Having your gear do the fighting for you is a terrible game design.0 -
Sugaroverdose✭✭✭✭✭
It's buff in 1T instead of nerfing velidreth was stupid idea anyway.mihran.akopyan_ESO wrote: »I swear... no one mentions Skoria. Anyways....
Thanks to the recent @KenaPKK , magicka nightblade build video. Skoria was a really good set to use (with alchemist and spinner) that provided an additional burst potential for mNB build. I have a good feeling that with No crit dmg Skoria will loose its BIS title, but still be good set to have.
So question to all the pro mNBs out there. Are you gona keep Skoria or will you change it for something else ?
0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭the_man_of_steal wrote: »SienneYviete wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Again ill say it,if this makes you unable to complete or compete in PvE it's a pure L2P issueWaffennacht wrote: »Again ill say it,if this makes you unable to complete or compete in PvE it's a pure L2P issue
@Waffennacht Thats obviously not the case there are about 10 other ways you can do very well and even better without Skoria. Doesnt take a genius to know that.
Its just a very unnessecary nerf to PVE players. Bosses have millions of health, you'll still be able to kill them but you'll just be in rotation for a bit longer now than before nothing to do with l2p
Again if you can complete it, it's not a problem. Having PvE take a bit longer is far worth the potential change in PvP. If you cannot beat PvE because your helm can't crit, you need to L2P it's really simple
86 million hit point hm rakkhat says hi, have you completed this content? Do you know the dps requirements to complete it? If not gtfo with your L2P argument it's invalid. People are complaining because instead of fixing a problem only affecting pvpers, a blanket nerf that won't even fix the issue itself which is duhhh proc set stacking is introduced. If people think this bandaid fix will stop them getting rekt by viper veli and widowmaker stacking then they are delusional. How hard would it be to just implement no set bonus crit as part of the battle spirit buff if that's the way they want to go. All this nerf will do is push people back into boring damage stacking builds which will ruin any last semblance of build diversity we have now.
PvPers tend not to think much. They don't care about PvE. Problem is, this change alone will not even fix a fraction of the current PvP imbalances.
The significant majority of the people here have never contributed truly good DPS in a Vet trial (or run a Vet trial). What's happening right now is the typical blanket style nerf that has always proved to hurt ESO.
I have no issue with ZOS putting this on PTS if class balance changes somehow at least mostly counteract the DPS loss in PvE. If not, and fights start taking a lot longer, then it's just another failure on ZOS's part.
I will save my judgement until PTS comes despite the mess it will create for my Mag Sorc. Hopefully things are not as bad as they seem.
So if fights start taking a lot longer to finish and people cant skip boss mechanics anymore then its a failure on ZOS part ?
Great
This is exactly what I was talking about! You're one of the clueless players
Try skipping boss mechanics in Vet trials. Show me how to take down Rakkhat in vMoL in 60sec. Same goes for other Vet trials. I don't think you can.
Group dungeons will be extraordinarily easy to run through and burn everything down even without Proc Crits. Heck, you can skip boss mechanics through pure DPSing even with non-BiS gear and 400CP. They're just flat out easy for experienced players with good rotation knowledge. Only way to force all players to run through all boss mechanics in group dungeons is to remove CPs (horrible, horrible idea).
Endgame PvE in ESO refers to Vet trials. You must have BiS or near-BiS gear as a DPS to put out high damage. There is a threshold you must reach, and if you aren't there, you will be kicked unless you are friends with everyone and are knowingly getting carried. Warhorn will also have a high uptime (+30% Crit damage).
Now it is even more forced upon players to have BiS gear. When procs no longer crit, and your DPS drops by 7-8%, the difference is quite large.
You are not the only one playing the game. Like u said, those dungs are way too easy for u whether u use proc sets or not. Same applies for trials. Proc sets or not u will beat them cause u know how to adapt and complete the content. But when u have half ass players skipping dungeon boss mechanics because their gear is doing dmg for them then yes u have a problem. And as far as vet trials and experienced players are concerned the only difference is that its going to be a little harder to beat the trials now. Isnt that a good thing? That was one of the major issues in PVE. That everything was way too easy. Now that things are getting difficult its a bad thing? And regardless of how much time it takes to complete those trials. The issue with proc sets remains. They are doing way too much and they require absolutely no skill and thats a problem.
Again, you have no knowledge of endgame PvE.
Dungeons are easy for me because I am the very definition of a perfect PvE player. The 0.00001% or whatever. You don't find players like me unless you scramble to the top of the leaderboards or search for the very best. I also run with similarily-skilled players all the time. This is why group dungeons (non-DLC) are easy and don't need buffs at all. They shouldn't cater that content to players like me.
Tell all of the lowbies and PUGs in Group Finder that dungeons are too easy and their builds need nerfs cuz they're "half ass players". Run with CP100-200 players with bad gear and no rotations. These dungeons will not be faceroll at all.
Vet trials are not too easy, and no one ever said they were. The only way to run through them with ease is to run with 12 BiS, highly experienced, long-time players. Even PUGing Vet trials with good players is a total nightmare. No one thinks Vet trials need a buff.
By your logic, fights taking longer is a good thing. This alone shows you aren't a Vet trial runner. Fights take long enough as it is, and nerfing DPS just makes things worse for the already miniscule Trial community which consists of plenty of non-BiS players (who will now need to refarm just to put out good deeps if this nerf is big enough).
The first paragraph wasnt really needed. Thats exactly what i said. You are among the best and u will adapt.
That doesnt mean we are talking about the extreme opposite. If i run with players with bad gear and no rotation then ofc it wont be faceroll. We are not talking about those players. We are talking about the players that put on procs and suddenly start pulling good numbers even with a bad rotation. Thats broken. Thats what im saying. Its the same issue with PVP. Suddenly everyone is competitive cause the gear is doing the dmg for them. You want to pull good numbers and complete content then do it with ur skill.
Vet trials were designed to take a long time. If u dont like fights that are taking too long then maybe u shouldnt run vet trials. And if this nerf means that non BiS players wont be able to complete it then so be it. Its the hardest content of the game. It should require BiS players to complete it. Why is that bad?
The best players and most organized groups will most surely adapt and be fine. But there are still a number of valid issues you are discounting here:
1) The beginning of this game was a complete elite fest and if you didnt have "that one set" you were excluded from being able to even attempt something difficult. It is a poisonous environment that many skilled players even complained about because even with a highly skilled and organized group, to get the best gear requires: time for everyone to be on and luck from RNG
2) The reason they are doing the nerf is for PVP's benefit and no one was complaining about the PVE environment or builds in these or any forums as of late. PVE has actually been quite stellar with the exception of lag, some glitches, and farm bots. So to make a nerf intended to make PVP better, but the results are in fact nerfing PVE and also a virtual non change for PVP makes these changes completely unnecessary.
We are talking about the hardest content of the game. If u want to complete it then get BiS gear and master a rotation. If you dont want to do that then there is still plenty to do but u wont be able to do vet trials. Thats how it goes. I just dont get it. Most players were complaining for months when all PVE content was faceroll and they had nothing to do. Now u get hard content and u still dont like it. Make up ur mind.
Well unfortunately NPCs cant post in forums to complain about proc sets. But there were plenty of people calling those sets broken. Including Alcast. So ur statement about no one complaining in PVE goes out the window.0 -
cpuScientist✭✭✭✭✭
✭SienneYviete wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Again ill say it,if this makes you unable to complete or compete in PvE it's a pure L2P issueWaffennacht wrote: »Again ill say it,if this makes you unable to complete or compete in PvE it's a pure L2P issue
@Waffennacht Thats obviously not the case there are about 10 other ways you can do very well and even better without Skoria. Doesnt take a genius to know that.
Its just a very unnessecary nerf to PVE players. Bosses have millions of health, you'll still be able to kill them but you'll just be in rotation for a bit longer now than before nothing to do with l2p
Again if you can complete it, it's not a problem. Having PvE take a bit longer is far worth the potential change in PvP. If you cannot beat PvE because your helm can't crit, you need to L2P it's really simple
86 million hit point hm rakkhat says hi, have you completed this content? Do you know the dps requirements to complete it? If not gtfo with your L2P argument it's invalid. People are complaining because instead of fixing a problem only affecting pvpers, a blanket nerf that won't even fix the issue itself which is duhhh proc set stacking is introduced. If people think this bandaid fix will stop them getting rekt by viper veli and widowmaker stacking then they are delusional. How hard would it be to just implement no set bonus crit as part of the battle spirit buff if that's the way they want to go. All this nerf will do is push people back into boring damage stacking builds which will ruin any last semblance of build diversity we have now.
PvPers tend not to think much. They don't care about PvE. Problem is, this change alone will not even fix a fraction of the current PvP imbalances.
The significant majority of the people here have never contributed truly good DPS in a Vet trial (or run a Vet trial). What's happening right now is the typical blanket style nerf that has always proved to hurt ESO.
I have no issue with ZOS putting this on PTS if class balance changes somehow at least mostly counteract the DPS loss in PvE. If not, and fights start taking a lot longer, then it's just another failure on ZOS's part.
I will save my judgement until PTS comes despite the mess it will create for my Mag Sorc. Hopefully things are not as bad as they seem.
So if fights start taking a lot longer to finish and people cant skip boss mechanics anymore then its a failure on ZOS part ?
Great
This is exactly what I was talking about! You're one of the clueless players
Try skipping boss mechanics in Vet trials. Show me how to take down Rakkhat in vMoL in 60sec. Same goes for other Vet trials. I don't think you can.
Group dungeons will be extraordinarily easy to run through and burn everything down even without Proc Crits. Heck, you can skip boss mechanics through pure DPSing even with non-BiS gear and 400CP. They're just flat out easy for experienced players with good rotation knowledge. Only way to force all players to run through all boss mechanics in group dungeons is to remove CPs (horrible, horrible idea).
Endgame PvE in ESO refers to Vet trials. You must have BiS or near-BiS gear as a DPS to put out high damage. There is a threshold you must reach, and if you aren't there, you will be kicked unless you are friends with everyone and are knowingly getting carried. Warhorn will also have a high uptime (+30% Crit damage).
Now it is even more forced upon players to have BiS gear. When procs no longer crit, and your DPS drops by 7-8%, the difference is quite large.
You are not the only one playing the game. Like u said, those dungs are way too easy for u whether u use proc sets or not. Same applies for trials. Proc sets or not u will beat them cause u know how to adapt and complete the content. But when u have half ass players skipping dungeon boss mechanics because their gear is doing dmg for them then yes u have a problem. And as far as vet trials and experienced players are concerned the only difference is that its going to be a little harder to beat the trials now. Isnt that a good thing? That was one of the major issues in PVE. That everything was way too easy. Now that things are getting difficult its a bad thing? And regardless of how much time it takes to complete those trials. The issue with proc sets remains. They are doing way too much and they require absolutely no skill and thats a problem.
Again, you have no knowledge of endgame PvE.
Dungeons are easy for me because I am the very definition of a perfect PvE player. The 0.00001% or whatever. You don't find players like me unless you scramble to the top of the leaderboards or search for the very best. I also run with similarily-skilled players all the time. This is why group dungeons (non-DLC) are easy and don't need buffs at all. They shouldn't cater that content to players like me.
Tell all of the lowbies and PUGs in Group Finder that dungeons are too easy and their builds need nerfs cuz they're "half ass players". Run with CP100-200 players with bad gear and no rotations. These dungeons will not be faceroll at all.
Vet trials are not too easy, and no one ever said they were. The only way to run through them with ease is to run with 12 BiS, highly experienced, long-time players. Even PUGing Vet trials with good players is a total nightmare. No one thinks Vet trials need a buff.
By your logic, fights taking longer is a good thing. This alone shows you aren't a Vet trial runner. Fights take long enough as it is, and nerfing DPS just makes things worse for the already miniscule Trial community which consists of plenty of non-BiS players (who will now need to refarm just to put out good deeps if this nerf is big enough).
The first paragraph wasnt really needed. Thats exactly what i said. You are among the best and u will adapt.
That doesnt mean we are talking about the extreme opposite. If i run with players with bad gear and no rotation then ofc it wont be faceroll. We are not talking about those players. We are talking about the players that put on procs and suddenly start pulling good numbers even with a bad rotation. Thats broken. Thats what im saying. Its the same issue with PVP. Suddenly everyone is competitive cause the gear is doing the dmg for them. You want to pull good numbers and complete content then do it with ur skill.
Vet trials were designed to take a long time. If u dont like fights that are taking too long then maybe u shouldnt run vet trials. And if this nerf means that non BiS players wont be able to complete it then so be it. Its the hardest content of the game. It should require BiS players to complete it. Why is that bad?
Players with bad rotation don't pull good numbers though lol. Don't matter what proc set they put on.Edited by cpuScientist on December 28, 2016 4:29PM0 -
leepalmer95 wrote: »SienneYviete wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Again ill say it,if this makes you unable to complete or compete in PvE it's a pure L2P issueWaffennacht wrote: »Again ill say it,if this makes you unable to complete or compete in PvE it's a pure L2P issue
@Waffennacht Thats obviously not the case there are about 10 other ways you can do very well and even better without Skoria. Doesnt take a genius to know that.
Its just a very unnessecary nerf to PVE players. Bosses have millions of health, you'll still be able to kill them but you'll just be in rotation for a bit longer now than before nothing to do with l2p
Again if you can complete it, it's not a problem. Having PvE take a bit longer is far worth the potential change in PvP. If you cannot beat PvE because your helm can't crit, you need to L2P it's really simple
86 million hit point hm rakkhat says hi, have you completed this content? Do you know the dps requirements to complete it? If not gtfo with your L2P argument it's invalid. People are complaining because instead of fixing a problem only affecting pvpers, a blanket nerf that won't even fix the issue itself which is duhhh proc set stacking is introduced. If people think this bandaid fix will stop them getting rekt by viper veli and widowmaker stacking then they are delusional. How hard would it be to just implement no set bonus crit as part of the battle spirit buff if that's the way they want to go. All this nerf will do is push people back into boring damage stacking builds which will ruin any last semblance of build diversity we have now.
PvPers tend not to think much. They don't care about PvE. Problem is, this change alone will not even fix a fraction of the current PvP imbalances.
The significant majority of the people here have never contributed truly good DPS in a Vet trial (or run a Vet trial). What's happening right now is the typical blanket style nerf that has always proved to hurt ESO.
I have no issue with ZOS putting this on PTS if class balance changes somehow at least mostly counteract the DPS loss in PvE. If not, and fights start taking a lot longer, then it's just another failure on ZOS's part.
I will save my judgement until PTS comes despite the mess it will create for my Mag Sorc. Hopefully things are not as bad as they seem.
Have you ever though't that this wasn't just a blanket nerf because of pvp? You ever think zos decided that proc sets such as grothdarr/veli/skoria was making end game pve too easy? People managed to do all the content before sets with high proc chance and high aoe damage as a 2 piece were added.
This is what I actually believe about this nerf.Ormesson Stamina NB 2H-Bow0 -
thankyourat✭✭✭✭✭
✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »Everyone is on board with nerfing the stam procs, but are up in arms when their magicka proc sets get nerfed. I don't agree with the nerf for PvE, but skoria, grothdar, and every other magicka proc set needed to be nerfed along with the stam versions.
The thing about skoria is it has a low proc chance, only procs off dots, and is highly telegraphed. You actually have to be skillful to land skoria or it will just be blocked. Grathdar is trash in PvP I used it one day and now it just sits in my bank. Skoria is also used mostly on classes who lack constant burst damage. It's completely different than viper which has a 100% proc chance and procs every 4 seconds and tremorscale and that toxic snare. Plus you can't stack magicka proc sets because they are all dungeon sets. They really weren't a problem. It was really no reason to nerf them.
Grothdar is not trash at all in PvP, and Skoria procs quite often. You're downplaying these sets. Yes they should be nerfed, and if were up to me every proc set would be removed. Having your gear do the fighting for you is a terrible game design.
I found grothgar to not be very good at all. The only people I see running this set are dedicated zergers. Grathdar is op in PvE though. I would say skoria procs every 8 to12 seconds and is highly telegraphed. Also it forces me to use dots. I'm not saying it's not powerful I'm just saying it's balanced, and actually has a very good game design unlike some of the stronger proc sets like viper and tremorscale0