Penetration and Resistance: something to know

VoidBlue

I was doing some testing trying to see how much damage some skills do and when I tested them with and without the spell resistance debuff I noticed my skills did exactly the same about of damage.

Shouldn't the damage be higher with their resistance lowered?

bebynnag

in theory yes, however if you are running sharpened weapons, have your LA penetration passive, have a tonne of CP into spell pen & are wearing the spell pen set (too tired to think what its called) your penetration could be higher than the mob's resistance

edt to add: you may not need the spell pen set to exceed certain mobs spell resistance

VoidBlue

puffytheslayer wrote: »

in theory yes, however if you are running sharpened weapons, have your LA penetration passive, have a tonne of CP into spell pen & are wearing the spell pen set (too tired to think what its called) your penetration could be higher than the mob's resistance

edt to add: you may not need the spell pen set to exceed certain mobs spell resistance

Oh so if your penetration is higher than their resistance it just doesn't effect the damage output as there isn't anything left to go through.

Nice to know!

Thanks! That explains a lot.

Diesosoon

VoidBlue wrote: »

puffytheslayer wrote: »

in theory yes, however if you are running sharpened weapons, have your LA penetration passive, have a tonne of CP into spell pen & are wearing the spell pen set (too tired to think what its called) your penetration could be higher than the mob's resistance

edt to add: you may not need the spell pen set to exceed certain mobs spell resistance

Oh so if your penetration is higher than their resistance it just doesn't effect the damage output as there isn't anything left to go through.

Nice to know!

Thanks! That explains a lot.

Awesome to both! Good post for new players, may want to rename for that instead of answered. Who knows, ZOS may guild/sticky it.

DigitalShibby

New title of thread sounds slightly sexual.

billp_ESO

A followup question: how can you tell what the spell resistance is for a mob? And how can you tell what your spell penetration is?

Betheny

DigitalShibby wrote: »

New title of thread sounds slightly sexual.

Says something about the human animal that combat and sexuality use a lot of the same language.

Gilvoth

id like to know of it's PvP information as well.
to be able to see when we reach the CAP on penetration would be nice to know so i don't keep stacking points into something uselessly.

Betheny

wrong thread haha

paulsimonps

Enemies in the overworld only have 9,100 resistance, their spell and physical is the same. Mobs in Dungeons and trials have 18,200. So if you have a 2 handed weapon or 2 dual wield weapons with sharpened you get 5160 Penetration, and the light Armor Passive gives at Rank 2: 4884 Penetration. Together both of them are 10044. So in the overworld you will do maximum amount of damage, always, with those two passives. But of course for trials and dungeons you still got about 8156 resistance left on the mobs which with good support will be taken off as well.

OH also if you attack a monster with an elemental attack and they are "weak" against that element then they will have 0 resistance towards that attack regardless of your penetration stats or passives. If the mobs are "weak" against it it will also have a chance to proc an additional effect. For example Fire weakness has a chance to proc Explosion, which when procced will deal a big Fire Damage attack on the target. Not sure about proc chance for it or how much damage it is but I know that it will and can happend to targets weak to fire.

Dubhliam

paulsimonps wrote: »

Enemies in the overworld only have 9,100 resistance, their spell and physical is the same. Mobs in Dungeons and trials have 18,200. So if you have a 2 handed weapon or 2 dual wield weapons with sharpened you get 5160 Penetration, and the light Armor Passive gives at Rank 2: 4884 Penetration. Together both of them are 10044. So in the overworld you will do maximum amount of damage, always, with those two passives. But of course for trials and dungeons you still got about 8156 resistance left on the mobs which with good support will be taken off as well.

OH also if you attack a monster with an elemental attack and they are "weak" against that element then they will have 0 resistance towards that attack regardless of your penetration stats or passives. If the mobs are "weak" against it it will also have a chance to proc an additional effect. For example Fire weakness has a chance to proc Explosion, which when procced will deal a big Fire Damage attack on the target. Not sure about proc chance for it or how much damage it is but I know that it will and can happend to targets weak to fire.

This information is mostly outdated.
They recently made all monsters have equal resistances.
Mostly.

Liofa

@Dubhliam

Best way to test is using the 2hander Ultimate on enemies you wish to know resistance values of while naked . I did that to a Craglorn boss (some scorpion) about a 2-3 weeks ago . It was 9100 . I think it should be the same for everything that is not in a dungeon . I may be wrong since I did the test on only 1 target though . Can someone confirm please ? I don't have skill points and don't want to spend money for it ^^

Wollust

billp_ESO wrote: »

A followup question: how can you tell what the spell resistance is for a mob? And how can you tell what your spell penetration is?

The easiest way is to use the 2h ult morph that adds their resistance to yours.
And well, there is addon that extend your character sheet and shows your pen, but you can also just add it up. Light armor gives pen, sharpened gives pen, CP if you have any into pen.

paulsimonps

Dubhliam wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Enemies in the overworld only have 9,100 resistance, their spell and physical is the same. Mobs in Dungeons and trials have 18,200. So if you have a 2 handed weapon or 2 dual wield weapons with sharpened you get 5160 Penetration, and the light Armor Passive gives at Rank 2: 4884 Penetration. Together both of them are 10044. So in the overworld you will do maximum amount of damage, always, with those two passives. But of course for trials and dungeons you still got about 8156 resistance left on the mobs which with good support will be taken off as well.

OH also if you attack a monster with an elemental attack and they are "weak" against that element then they will have 0 resistance towards that attack regardless of your penetration stats or passives. If the mobs are "weak" against it it will also have a chance to proc an additional effect. For example Fire weakness has a chance to proc Explosion, which when procced will deal a big Fire Damage attack on the target. Not sure about proc chance for it or how much damage it is but I know that it will and can happend to targets weak to fire.

This information is mostly outdated.
They recently made all monsters have equal resistances.
Mostly.

@Dubhliam

ALL of it is 100% Accurate. I tested it just last week. You sir are mistaken. The only place I have found so far that does not conform to this rule set is Maelstrom where the mobs have all kinds of weird resistance stats and do not follow a base rule set. But the 9,100 in overworld and 18,200 in Dungeons and Trials is still accurate.

EDIT: Just went and double checked. Dragonstar Arena is 18,200 too. So for the moment Maelstrom is the only place that is not standardized.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

I'm more interested in knowing the increase in damage as a function of increased penetration. How much additional penetration is needed to equal and additional weapon damage enchant?

Some testing with the spriggan/spinner sets seems to show the damage gained to be equal to about 160 weapon damage but I am wondering if anyone else is getting those numbers.

paulsimonps

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

I'm more interested in knowing the increase in damage as a function of increased penetration. How much additional penetration is needed to equal and additional weapon damage enchant?

Some testing with the spriggan/spinner sets seems to show the damage gained to be equal to about 160 weapon damage but I am wondering if anyone else is getting those numbers.

Well a mobs Resistance per Percentage mitigated is 500. So a mob in a dungeon or a trial is mitigating 36.4% of all of your attacks. So what you can do to check the difference is to simply check your tooltip damage with an ability and do the math from there. but to know exactly how much Penetration is worth in terms of damage increase similar to Wpn/spell Power or Max resources then you will have to know the exact calculation for damage output made by the skills. Sure people know that Max resources is worth 1 wpn/spell power for roughly each 10.2 max resource but do you know how much increase in damage both of them are? Also some skills scale only from one of the 2 and some from both so each skill is different. But for you yourself best is to check difference in damage done with the help of the math mentioned above.

Dubhliam

paulsimonps wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Enemies in the overworld only have 9,100 resistance, their spell and physical is the same. Mobs in Dungeons and trials have 18,200. So if you have a 2 handed weapon or 2 dual wield weapons with sharpened you get 5160 Penetration, and the light Armor Passive gives at Rank 2: 4884 Penetration. Together both of them are 10044. So in the overworld you will do maximum amount of damage, always, with those two passives. But of course for trials and dungeons you still got about 8156 resistance left on the mobs which with good support will be taken off as well.

OH also if you attack a monster with an elemental attack and they are "weak" against that element then they will have 0 resistance towards that attack regardless of your penetration stats or passives. If the mobs are "weak" against it it will also have a chance to proc an additional effect. For example Fire weakness has a chance to proc Explosion, which when procced will deal a big Fire Damage attack on the target. Not sure about proc chance for it or how much damage it is but I know that it will and can happend to targets weak to fire.

This information is mostly outdated.
They recently made all monsters have equal resistances.
Mostly.

@Dubhliam

ALL of it is 100% Accurate. I tested it just last week. You sir are mistaken. The only place I have found so far that does not conform to this rule set is Maelstrom where the mobs have all kinds of weird resistance stats and do not follow a base rule set. But the 9,100 in overworld and 18,200 in Dungeons and Trials is still accurate.

EDIT: Just went and double checked. Dragonstar Arena is 18,200 too. So for the moment Maelstrom is the only place that is not standardized.

I remember reading that monsters no longer have "weakness" to certain elements, and that all resistances have been flattened to the same values apart from certain specific monsters such as found in Maelstrom.

I'll have to do some digging to find out where I read this though...

Dubhliam

Dubhliam wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Enemies in the overworld only have 9,100 resistance, their spell and physical is the same. Mobs in Dungeons and trials have 18,200. So if you have a 2 handed weapon or 2 dual wield weapons with sharpened you get 5160 Penetration, and the light Armor Passive gives at Rank 2: 4884 Penetration. Together both of them are 10044. So in the overworld you will do maximum amount of damage, always, with those two passives. But of course for trials and dungeons you still got about 8156 resistance left on the mobs which with good support will be taken off as well.

OH also if you attack a monster with an elemental attack and they are "weak" against that element then they will have 0 resistance towards that attack regardless of your penetration stats or passives. If the mobs are "weak" against it it will also have a chance to proc an additional effect. For example Fire weakness has a chance to proc Explosion, which when procced will deal a big Fire Damage attack on the target. Not sure about proc chance for it or how much damage it is but I know that it will and can happend to targets weak to fire.

This information is mostly outdated.
They recently made all monsters have equal resistances.
Mostly.

@Dubhliam

ALL of it is 100% Accurate. I tested it just last week. You sir are mistaken. The only place I have found so far that does not conform to this rule set is Maelstrom where the mobs have all kinds of weird resistance stats and do not follow a base rule set. But the 9,100 in overworld and 18,200 in Dungeons and Trials is still accurate.

EDIT: Just went and double checked. Dragonstar Arena is 18,200 too. So for the moment Maelstrom is the only place that is not standardized.

I remember reading that monsters no longer have "weakness" to certain elements, and that all resistances have been flattened to the same values apart from certain specific monsters such as found in Maelstrom.

I'll have to do some digging to find out where I read this though...

And here it is.

Also, here is a short answer the OP gave about monster weakness:

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

SublimeSparo wrote: »

So 5 light armour + Sharpened weapon = overland enemy completely penetrated?
And trolls are no longer weak to fire damage for example?

That is correct, with 5 pieces of Light Armor (4884) and a gold quality 2h Sharp Weapon (5160) and base Focus (100) will put you over the Overland resist cap.

As for the weakness, I've found a lot of conflicting results. All bosses are weak to a specific element, but many overland entities are not susceptible to their creature base weakness. For example, trolls in the rift aren't weak to fire on Live or PTS, but in Sanctum Ophidia all trolls are weak to fire. On the inverse, many zombie and blood fiend mobs are weak to fire no matter where they are found. It would be nice to receive a formal post by ZoS that allowed either players or Devs to officially publish information such as enemy weaknesses and in game resist values, to allow for some MUCH needed transparency in the game.

Turns out I overgeneralized what I read. Something I often do.
But still, resistance values have been tampered with since One Tamriel.

paulsimonps

Dubhliam wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Enemies in the overworld only have 9,100 resistance, their spell and physical is the same. Mobs in Dungeons and trials have 18,200. So if you have a 2 handed weapon or 2 dual wield weapons with sharpened you get 5160 Penetration, and the light Armor Passive gives at Rank 2: 4884 Penetration. Together both of them are 10044. So in the overworld you will do maximum amount of damage, always, with those two passives. But of course for trials and dungeons you still got about 8156 resistance left on the mobs which with good support will be taken off as well.

OH also if you attack a monster with an elemental attack and they are "weak" against that element then they will have 0 resistance towards that attack regardless of your penetration stats or passives. If the mobs are "weak" against it it will also have a chance to proc an additional effect. For example Fire weakness has a chance to proc Explosion, which when procced will deal a big Fire Damage attack on the target. Not sure about proc chance for it or how much damage it is but I know that it will and can happend to targets weak to fire.

This information is mostly outdated.
They recently made all monsters have equal resistances.
Mostly.

@Dubhliam

ALL of it is 100% Accurate. I tested it just last week. You sir are mistaken. The only place I have found so far that does not conform to this rule set is Maelstrom where the mobs have all kinds of weird resistance stats and do not follow a base rule set. But the 9,100 in overworld and 18,200 in Dungeons and Trials is still accurate.

EDIT: Just went and double checked. Dragonstar Arena is 18,200 too. So for the moment Maelstrom is the only place that is not standardized.

I remember reading that monsters no longer have "weakness" to certain elements, and that all resistances have been flattened to the same values apart from certain specific monsters such as found in Maelstrom.

I'll have to do some digging to find out where I read this though...

And here it is.

Also, here is a short answer the OP gave about monster weakness:

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

SublimeSparo wrote: »

So 5 light armour + Sharpened weapon = overland enemy completely penetrated?
And trolls are no longer weak to fire damage for example?

That is correct, with 5 pieces of Light Armor (4884) and a gold quality 2h Sharp Weapon (5160) and base Focus (100) will put you over the Overland resist cap.

As for the weakness, I've found a lot of conflicting results. All bosses are weak to a specific element, but many overland entities are not susceptible to their creature base weakness. For example, trolls in the rift aren't weak to fire on Live or PTS, but in Sanctum Ophidia all trolls are weak to fire. On the inverse, many zombie and blood fiend mobs are weak to fire no matter where they are found. It would be nice to receive a formal post by ZoS that allowed either players or Devs to officially publish information such as enemy weaknesses and in game resist values, to allow for some MUCH needed transparency in the game.

Turns out I overgeneralized what I read. Something I often do.
But still, resistance values have been tampered with since One Tamriel.

Both the link and the quote both say that I was right so..... what are we arguing about exactly?

The only thing changed really was that they normalized the overland mobs as well as that of the delves and public dungeons so they were all the same.

Dubhliam

paulsimonps wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Enemies in the overworld only have 9,100 resistance, their spell and physical is the same. Mobs in Dungeons and trials have 18,200. So if you have a 2 handed weapon or 2 dual wield weapons with sharpened you get 5160 Penetration, and the light Armor Passive gives at Rank 2: 4884 Penetration. Together both of them are 10044. So in the overworld you will do maximum amount of damage, always, with those two passives. But of course for trials and dungeons you still got about 8156 resistance left on the mobs which with good support will be taken off as well.

OH also if you attack a monster with an elemental attack and they are "weak" against that element then they will have 0 resistance towards that attack regardless of your penetration stats or passives. If the mobs are "weak" against it it will also have a chance to proc an additional effect. For example Fire weakness has a chance to proc Explosion, which when procced will deal a big Fire Damage attack on the target. Not sure about proc chance for it or how much damage it is but I know that it will and can happend to targets weak to fire.

This information is mostly outdated.
They recently made all monsters have equal resistances.
Mostly.

@Dubhliam

ALL of it is 100% Accurate. I tested it just last week. You sir are mistaken. The only place I have found so far that does not conform to this rule set is Maelstrom where the mobs have all kinds of weird resistance stats and do not follow a base rule set. But the 9,100 in overworld and 18,200 in Dungeons and Trials is still accurate.

EDIT: Just went and double checked. Dragonstar Arena is 18,200 too. So for the moment Maelstrom is the only place that is not standardized.

I remember reading that monsters no longer have "weakness" to certain elements, and that all resistances have been flattened to the same values apart from certain specific monsters such as found in Maelstrom.

I'll have to do some digging to find out where I read this though...

And here it is.

Also, here is a short answer the OP gave about monster weakness:

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

SublimeSparo wrote: »

So 5 light armour + Sharpened weapon = overland enemy completely penetrated?
And trolls are no longer weak to fire damage for example?

That is correct, with 5 pieces of Light Armor (4884) and a gold quality 2h Sharp Weapon (5160) and base Focus (100) will put you over the Overland resist cap.

As for the weakness, I've found a lot of conflicting results. All bosses are weak to a specific element, but many overland entities are not susceptible to their creature base weakness. For example, trolls in the rift aren't weak to fire on Live or PTS, but in Sanctum Ophidia all trolls are weak to fire. On the inverse, many zombie and blood fiend mobs are weak to fire no matter where they are found. It would be nice to receive a formal post by ZoS that allowed either players or Devs to officially publish information such as enemy weaknesses and in game resist values, to allow for some MUCH needed transparency in the game.

Turns out I overgeneralized what I read. Something I often do.
But still, resistance values have been tampered with since One Tamriel.

Both the link and the quote both say that I was right so..... what are we arguing about exactly?

Well, I would not call it arguing.

I simply thought a part of your post was inaccurate, namely the part about the monster weaknesses.

Turns out I overlooked the fact that monster weaknesses are still a thing, but not in the extent that it was prior to One Tamriel.
Although, it baffles me why they decided to leave only certain (overland) mobs with weaknesses, while removing weaknesses from other (overland) mobs.

I have not tested it myself, but I can only assume that undead are the only type of (overland) monsters that still have a element weakness (to fire).

paulsimonps

Dubhliam wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Enemies in the overworld only have 9,100 resistance, their spell and physical is the same. Mobs in Dungeons and trials have 18,200. So if you have a 2 handed weapon or 2 dual wield weapons with sharpened you get 5160 Penetration, and the light Armor Passive gives at Rank 2: 4884 Penetration. Together both of them are 10044. So in the overworld you will do maximum amount of damage, always, with those two passives. But of course for trials and dungeons you still got about 8156 resistance left on the mobs which with good support will be taken off as well.

OH also if you attack a monster with an elemental attack and they are "weak" against that element then they will have 0 resistance towards that attack regardless of your penetration stats or passives. If the mobs are "weak" against it it will also have a chance to proc an additional effect. For example Fire weakness has a chance to proc Explosion, which when procced will deal a big Fire Damage attack on the target. Not sure about proc chance for it or how much damage it is but I know that it will and can happend to targets weak to fire.

This information is mostly outdated.
They recently made all monsters have equal resistances.
Mostly.

@Dubhliam

ALL of it is 100% Accurate. I tested it just last week. You sir are mistaken. The only place I have found so far that does not conform to this rule set is Maelstrom where the mobs have all kinds of weird resistance stats and do not follow a base rule set. But the 9,100 in overworld and 18,200 in Dungeons and Trials is still accurate.

EDIT: Just went and double checked. Dragonstar Arena is 18,200 too. So for the moment Maelstrom is the only place that is not standardized.

I remember reading that monsters no longer have "weakness" to certain elements, and that all resistances have been flattened to the same values apart from certain specific monsters such as found in Maelstrom.

I'll have to do some digging to find out where I read this though...

And here it is.

Also, here is a short answer the OP gave about monster weakness:

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

SublimeSparo wrote: »

So 5 light armour + Sharpened weapon = overland enemy completely penetrated?
And trolls are no longer weak to fire damage for example?

That is correct, with 5 pieces of Light Armor (4884) and a gold quality 2h Sharp Weapon (5160) and base Focus (100) will put you over the Overland resist cap.

As for the weakness, I've found a lot of conflicting results. All bosses are weak to a specific element, but many overland entities are not susceptible to their creature base weakness. For example, trolls in the rift aren't weak to fire on Live or PTS, but in Sanctum Ophidia all trolls are weak to fire. On the inverse, many zombie and blood fiend mobs are weak to fire no matter where they are found. It would be nice to receive a formal post by ZoS that allowed either players or Devs to officially publish information such as enemy weaknesses and in game resist values, to allow for some MUCH needed transparency in the game.

Turns out I overgeneralized what I read. Something I often do.
But still, resistance values have been tampered with since One Tamriel.

Both the link and the quote both say that I was right so..... what are we arguing about exactly?

Well, I would not call it arguing.

I simply thought a part of your post was inaccurate, namely the part about the monster weaknesses.

Turns out I overlooked the fact that monster weaknesses are still a thing, but not in the extent that it was prior to One Tamriel.
Although, it baffles me why they decided to leave only certain (overland) mobs with weaknesses, while removing weaknesses from other (overland) mobs.

I have not tested it myself, but I can only assume that undead are the only type of (overland) monsters that still have a element weakness (to fire).

Actually I was testing it on a Ice Wraith just a few min ago and they are still weak to fire.

Thou an extensive Bestiary would be awesome

byrdmanwes

I believe it's suppose to be around 4k penetration for your respective stat and build. For example night mother's gaze is popular among stamina users when they are solo, but if they are in a group where someone is already killing the resistance of mobs and bosses then other sets are better.

Dubhliam

paulsimonps wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Enemies in the overworld only have 9,100 resistance, their spell and physical is the same. Mobs in Dungeons and trials have 18,200. So if you have a 2 handed weapon or 2 dual wield weapons with sharpened you get 5160 Penetration, and the light Armor Passive gives at Rank 2: 4884 Penetration. Together both of them are 10044. So in the overworld you will do maximum amount of damage, always, with those two passives. But of course for trials and dungeons you still got about 8156 resistance left on the mobs which with good support will be taken off as well.

OH also if you attack a monster with an elemental attack and they are "weak" against that element then they will have 0 resistance towards that attack regardless of your penetration stats or passives. If the mobs are "weak" against it it will also have a chance to proc an additional effect. For example Fire weakness has a chance to proc Explosion, which when procced will deal a big Fire Damage attack on the target. Not sure about proc chance for it or how much damage it is but I know that it will and can happend to targets weak to fire.

This information is mostly outdated.
They recently made all monsters have equal resistances.
Mostly.

@Dubhliam

ALL of it is 100% Accurate. I tested it just last week. You sir are mistaken. The only place I have found so far that does not conform to this rule set is Maelstrom where the mobs have all kinds of weird resistance stats and do not follow a base rule set. But the 9,100 in overworld and 18,200 in Dungeons and Trials is still accurate.

EDIT: Just went and double checked. Dragonstar Arena is 18,200 too. So for the moment Maelstrom is the only place that is not standardized.

I remember reading that monsters no longer have "weakness" to certain elements, and that all resistances have been flattened to the same values apart from certain specific monsters such as found in Maelstrom.

I'll have to do some digging to find out where I read this though...

And here it is.

Also, here is a short answer the OP gave about monster weakness:

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

SublimeSparo wrote: »

So 5 light armour + Sharpened weapon = overland enemy completely penetrated?
And trolls are no longer weak to fire damage for example?

That is correct, with 5 pieces of Light Armor (4884) and a gold quality 2h Sharp Weapon (5160) and base Focus (100) will put you over the Overland resist cap.

As for the weakness, I've found a lot of conflicting results. All bosses are weak to a specific element, but many overland entities are not susceptible to their creature base weakness. For example, trolls in the rift aren't weak to fire on Live or PTS, but in Sanctum Ophidia all trolls are weak to fire. On the inverse, many zombie and blood fiend mobs are weak to fire no matter where they are found. It would be nice to receive a formal post by ZoS that allowed either players or Devs to officially publish information such as enemy weaknesses and in game resist values, to allow for some MUCH needed transparency in the game.

Turns out I overgeneralized what I read. Something I often do.
But still, resistance values have been tampered with since One Tamriel.

Both the link and the quote both say that I was right so..... what are we arguing about exactly?

Well, I would not call it arguing.

I simply thought a part of your post was inaccurate, namely the part about the monster weaknesses.

Turns out I overlooked the fact that monster weaknesses are still a thing, but not in the extent that it was prior to One Tamriel.
Although, it baffles me why they decided to leave only certain (overland) mobs with weaknesses, while removing weaknesses from other (overland) mobs.

I have not tested it myself, but I can only assume that undead are the only type of (overland) monsters that still have a element weakness (to fire).

Actually I was testing it on a Ice Wraith just a few min ago and they are still weak to fire.

Thou an extensive Bestiary would be awesome

Aren't Wraiths undead??

paulsimonps

Dubhliam wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Enemies in the overworld only have 9,100 resistance, their spell and physical is the same. Mobs in Dungeons and trials have 18,200. So if you have a 2 handed weapon or 2 dual wield weapons with sharpened you get 5160 Penetration, and the light Armor Passive gives at Rank 2: 4884 Penetration. Together both of them are 10044. So in the overworld you will do maximum amount of damage, always, with those two passives. But of course for trials and dungeons you still got about 8156 resistance left on the mobs which with good support will be taken off as well.

OH also if you attack a monster with an elemental attack and they are "weak" against that element then they will have 0 resistance towards that attack regardless of your penetration stats or passives. If the mobs are "weak" against it it will also have a chance to proc an additional effect. For example Fire weakness has a chance to proc Explosion, which when procced will deal a big Fire Damage attack on the target. Not sure about proc chance for it or how much damage it is but I know that it will and can happend to targets weak to fire.

This information is mostly outdated.
They recently made all monsters have equal resistances.
Mostly.

@Dubhliam

ALL of it is 100% Accurate. I tested it just last week. You sir are mistaken. The only place I have found so far that does not conform to this rule set is Maelstrom where the mobs have all kinds of weird resistance stats and do not follow a base rule set. But the 9,100 in overworld and 18,200 in Dungeons and Trials is still accurate.

EDIT: Just went and double checked. Dragonstar Arena is 18,200 too. So for the moment Maelstrom is the only place that is not standardized.

I remember reading that monsters no longer have "weakness" to certain elements, and that all resistances have been flattened to the same values apart from certain specific monsters such as found in Maelstrom.

I'll have to do some digging to find out where I read this though...

And here it is.

Also, here is a short answer the OP gave about monster weakness:

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

SublimeSparo wrote: »

So 5 light armour + Sharpened weapon = overland enemy completely penetrated?
And trolls are no longer weak to fire damage for example?

That is correct, with 5 pieces of Light Armor (4884) and a gold quality 2h Sharp Weapon (5160) and base Focus (100) will put you over the Overland resist cap.

As for the weakness, I've found a lot of conflicting results. All bosses are weak to a specific element, but many overland entities are not susceptible to their creature base weakness. For example, trolls in the rift aren't weak to fire on Live or PTS, but in Sanctum Ophidia all trolls are weak to fire. On the inverse, many zombie and blood fiend mobs are weak to fire no matter where they are found. It would be nice to receive a formal post by ZoS that allowed either players or Devs to officially publish information such as enemy weaknesses and in game resist values, to allow for some MUCH needed transparency in the game.

Turns out I overgeneralized what I read. Something I often do.
But still, resistance values have been tampered with since One Tamriel.

Both the link and the quote both say that I was right so..... what are we arguing about exactly?

Well, I would not call it arguing.

I simply thought a part of your post was inaccurate, namely the part about the monster weaknesses.

Turns out I overlooked the fact that monster weaknesses are still a thing, but not in the extent that it was prior to One Tamriel.
Although, it baffles me why they decided to leave only certain (overland) mobs with weaknesses, while removing weaknesses from other (overland) mobs.

I have not tested it myself, but I can only assume that undead are the only type of (overland) monsters that still have a element weakness (to fire).

Actually I was testing it on a Ice Wraith just a few min ago and they are still weak to fire.

Thou an extensive Bestiary would be awesome

Aren't Wraiths undead??

Wraiths are yes but ICE Wraiths are not.

You know these guys:



Easy way to check if something counts as undead. Slot Expert Hunter and if they glow they are undead. Ice Wraiths do not glow and they are not undead but they are still weak to fire.

Dubhliam

paulsimonps wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Enemies in the overworld only have 9,100 resistance, their spell and physical is the same. Mobs in Dungeons and trials have 18,200. So if you have a 2 handed weapon or 2 dual wield weapons with sharpened you get 5160 Penetration, and the light Armor Passive gives at Rank 2: 4884 Penetration. Together both of them are 10044. So in the overworld you will do maximum amount of damage, always, with those two passives. But of course for trials and dungeons you still got about 8156 resistance left on the mobs which with good support will be taken off as well.

OH also if you attack a monster with an elemental attack and they are "weak" against that element then they will have 0 resistance towards that attack regardless of your penetration stats or passives. If the mobs are "weak" against it it will also have a chance to proc an additional effect. For example Fire weakness has a chance to proc Explosion, which when procced will deal a big Fire Damage attack on the target. Not sure about proc chance for it or how much damage it is but I know that it will and can happend to targets weak to fire.

This information is mostly outdated.
They recently made all monsters have equal resistances.
Mostly.

@Dubhliam

ALL of it is 100% Accurate. I tested it just last week. You sir are mistaken. The only place I have found so far that does not conform to this rule set is Maelstrom where the mobs have all kinds of weird resistance stats and do not follow a base rule set. But the 9,100 in overworld and 18,200 in Dungeons and Trials is still accurate.

EDIT: Just went and double checked. Dragonstar Arena is 18,200 too. So for the moment Maelstrom is the only place that is not standardized.

I remember reading that monsters no longer have "weakness" to certain elements, and that all resistances have been flattened to the same values apart from certain specific monsters such as found in Maelstrom.

I'll have to do some digging to find out where I read this though...

And here it is.

Also, here is a short answer the OP gave about monster weakness:

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

SublimeSparo wrote: »

So 5 light armour + Sharpened weapon = overland enemy completely penetrated?
And trolls are no longer weak to fire damage for example?

That is correct, with 5 pieces of Light Armor (4884) and a gold quality 2h Sharp Weapon (5160) and base Focus (100) will put you over the Overland resist cap.

As for the weakness, I've found a lot of conflicting results. All bosses are weak to a specific element, but many overland entities are not susceptible to their creature base weakness. For example, trolls in the rift aren't weak to fire on Live or PTS, but in Sanctum Ophidia all trolls are weak to fire. On the inverse, many zombie and blood fiend mobs are weak to fire no matter where they are found. It would be nice to receive a formal post by ZoS that allowed either players or Devs to officially publish information such as enemy weaknesses and in game resist values, to allow for some MUCH needed transparency in the game.

Turns out I overgeneralized what I read. Something I often do.
But still, resistance values have been tampered with since One Tamriel.

Both the link and the quote both say that I was right so..... what are we arguing about exactly?

Well, I would not call it arguing.

I simply thought a part of your post was inaccurate, namely the part about the monster weaknesses.

Turns out I overlooked the fact that monster weaknesses are still a thing, but not in the extent that it was prior to One Tamriel.
Although, it baffles me why they decided to leave only certain (overland) mobs with weaknesses, while removing weaknesses from other (overland) mobs.

I have not tested it myself, but I can only assume that undead are the only type of (overland) monsters that still have a element weakness (to fire).

Actually I was testing it on a Ice Wraith just a few min ago and they are still weak to fire.

Thou an extensive Bestiary would be awesome

Aren't Wraiths undead??

Wraiths are yes but ICE Wraiths are not.

You know these guys:



Easy way to check if something counts as undead. Slot Expert Hunter and if they glow they are undead. Ice Wraiths do not glow and they are not undead but they are still weak to fire.

Wow.
ZOS can really muddy the waters, can they?

idk

VoidBlue wrote: »

puffytheslayer wrote: »

in theory yes, however if you are running sharpened weapons, have your LA penetration passive, have a tonne of CP into spell pen & are wearing the spell pen set (too tired to think what its called) your penetration could be higher than the mob's resistance

edt to add: you may not need the spell pen set to exceed certain mobs spell resistance

Oh so if your penetration is higher than their resistance it just doesn't effect the damage output as there isn't anything left to go through.

Nice to know!

Thanks! That explains a lot.

Yes and in a group setting more penetration is added from the tanks taunt and if the alkosh debuff is present. In a group setting the 5 PC set that offers spell pen is overkill.

paulsimonps

byrdmanwes wrote: »

I believe it's suppose to be around 4k penetration for your respective stat and build. For example night mother's gaze is popular among stamina users when they are solo, but if they are in a group where someone is already killing the resistance of mobs and bosses then other sets are better.

Dungeon and Trial boss has 18,200 resistance. Lets do a quick list of ways to remove that

Both:
Major Breach and Fracture: 5280
Minor Breach and Fracture: 1320
Alkosh: 3010
Gold Crushing Enchant: 1622
1H Sharpened: 2580
2H Sharpened: 5160
Total: 16392
Left: 1808

Physical:
Kra'gh: 1935
Night Mother's Gaze: 2580
Sunderflame: 3440
Spriggan's Thorns: 4000

Spell:
Light Armor Concentration Passive: 4884
Destruction Staff Penetrating Magic Passive: 10%
Spinner's Garments: 4000

Now I might have missed a few but these are the ones I can remember. Note that I don't know if the destro passive does its 10% before or after subtractive debuffs but I would guess after. So anyway a well set up Trial group will most likely have all of the buffs and debuffs that go for both as listed above. Now the uptime on Alkosh and Crusher may vary but most of those will be up at least 75% of the time. So for a Magicka user having the Light Armor passive will make you all set for Penetration and you will deal max damage in trials. For 4 man content you can never be sure of all those buffs, especially the minor buffs and alkosh. But so for a Stamina user its more tricky, either everyone uses 1p Kra'ghs or one person runs NMG, Sunderflame would be overkill and is "harder" to proc, a heavy attack vs any crit, a NMG user only needs to put down caltrops and all trash mobs or boss plus adds will be effected. So its up to each individual team to choose how they want to do it but there are tons of options to remove all resistance from Dungeon and Trial mobs and bosses.

idk

Adding to what @paulsimonps said, with high reduction of spell resist and good spell pen the benefit of further spell pen is reduced. With a solid group precise becomes more attractive though groups do vary so does the reduction in spell resist.

bebynnag

billp_ESO wrote: »

A followup question: how can you tell what the spell resistance is for a mob? And how can you tell what your spell penetration is?

**cough** I knew someone would come along and give the detailed answer if i skulked away for long enough. so now my original reply is still insightfull & in no way tarnished by my lack of detailed knowledge **cough**

paulsimonps

puffytheslayer wrote: »

billp_ESO wrote: »

A followup question: how can you tell what the spell resistance is for a mob? And how can you tell what your spell penetration is?

**cough** I knew someone would come along and give the detailed answer if i skulked away for long enough. so now my original reply is still insightfull & in no way tarnished by my lack of detailed knowledge **cough**

Hahahah yea with one minor detail :P you recommended using CP to give more spell pen, which is no way shape or form ever necessary if you have all the other buffs, heck you can even remove some of the smaller ones and you will still be fine in Dungeons and Trials. And in overworld there is even less of a reason :P

WalksonGraves

Am I too late for Cosby jokes?