Update 44 is now available for testing on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/pts
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• PC/Mac: No maintenance – September 23
Add Crafting Lessons To The Crown Store
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Stopnaggin✭✭✭✭✭
✭Still don't understand the add everything to the store. Sorry I'm against things that should be in game hidden behind a paywall. Cs exclusive motifs were the start for me, especially since the stones are unobtainable in game forcing you to spend rlm if you want to craft in all styles.
No doubt crafting gear and weapons takes more time than provisioning and alchemy. I also think gear is substantially more end game dependant and should take longer to learn. Again not agains lowering the time, reversing to shorter times per traits learned. If they happen to fix crafting it will also be more important to me, and probably a few others, that lessons not be introduced into the crown store.
Sorry but from what we have now to a 1 day flat research time is too much. This is the last crafting field that can't be done with a simple Google search to make it any easier. If, again, they fix crafting to make crafted sets viable, then adding lessons to the crown store makes it p2w. Bottom line is you don't have to put in the time if you don't want to, the exact arguments for most of the games more complex content. You don't have to be a crafter to be viable, you dont have to be a farmer or anything else you don't want to, or be bothered to do.
Why must everything be made for instant gratification? I was willing to even meet halfway with times and schedule in the above post, which is not enough comprise. Sorry, any other ideas besides 1 day? How about fixing crafting first, before we decide to nerf if into the ground any further. Maybe make it worth the amount of time invested, make it more hands on.0 -
helediron✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Still no. Go farm some drop gear, if you need gear instantly. It might be better for you to stay away from crafting completely. I prefer complex crafting, and that is the way it should be developed in ESO, like in many other MMOs - not to crown store instant purchases. The direction would be wrong....snip...
So...if my posted idea causes you to feel cheated.."Get Over Yourself"...Change is for the better and it has come to a point where "ESO Players need to pull the "IDEA TRIGGERS" first and wait to see what arrives next"...after all...you have the option to keep your money and not have to watch us spend ours.
...snip...
Now i think it's time for you to calm down and think these words: "Nobody owes you a darn thing... So stop your cry-baby whinig and get the hell over it!".
On hiatus. PC,EU,AD - crafting completionist - @helediron 900+ cp, @helestor 1000+ cp, @helestar 800+ cp, @helester 700+ cp - Dragonborn Z Suomikilta, Harrods, Master Crafter. - Blog - Crafthouse: all stations, all munduses, all dummies, open to everyone0 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@Stopnaggin
" If, again, they fix crafting to make crafted sets viable, then adding lessons to the crown store makes it p2w. "
The last vestige of the ones reduced to their last vestige.
Hint - it is not P2W to get to exactly what you can get in the game only quicker.
its like the definition of convenience.
But false P2W claims are thrown with practically every crown thing to denegrate the store as much as possible - even motifs got called P2W.
Methinks P2W is the new *** - first person to invoke it... you know the rest.
And we have our winner and new champ...Edited by STEVIL on December 27, 2016 10:32PMProudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
Stopnaggin✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Stopnaggin
" If, again, they fix crafting to make crafted sets viable, then adding lessons to the crown store makes it p2w. "
The last vestige of the ones reduced to their last vestige.
Hint - it is not P2W to get to exactly what you can get in the game only quicker.
its like the definition of convenience.
But false P2W claims are thrown with practically every crown thing to denegrate the store as much as possible - even motifs got called P2W.
Methinks P2W is the new *** - first person to invoke it... you know the rest.
And we have our winner and new champ...
If I can buy an ability to make stronger gear that is by definition pay to win. Motifs are a different story, but bad none the less. Again how many point have you put into that passive aggressive skill line? Sorry but you are flat out wrong, pay to win is pay to win, coat it how you like, paying for a competitive advantage is pay to win.
It would be no different than adding tempers to the cs, you could upgrade the gear with out the in game effort. But you know why have to work for it right. I know let's add a token in the cs that will allow you to change traits on dropped trial gear too.
The crown store should remain cosmetic only. I don't think anyone was yelling about costumes and mounts. You wanna buy your way to the top, good for you, Im not buying into it.
Pay to win definition
Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.0 -
Stopnaggin✭✭✭✭✭
✭KUDOS TO: @STEVIL
Now to address all of the HATERS:
@Stopnaggin, @disintegr8, @bryanhaas, @Balibe, @Eocosa, @White wabbit, @Sigtric, @Tai-Chi, @helediron, @Kram8ion, @jlboozer, @nraner81, @Iluvrien, and any one else who disagrees
Out of 7 million ESO Players...just how many do you think are Crafters?...Lets be realistic...its hard to miss on a Character's Skill Bar...so...my guess would be...7 million.
Out of these 7 million Crafters (Masters or Not)...just how many got there without anyone else's help?...Hmmm...this is a bit harder to calculate...because all of the "Master Crafters" don't have a TITLE under their character's name that shouts "Hey I'm a MASTER CRAFTER"...so the 'only' way to brag about it...is to join a Guild and sell their services -OR- be a hero and help someone cheat for free. Oh yeah, I have seen Master Crafters create every item for someone else to research...cutting down on their time frame of having to find it first and then research it.
BTW...if you did just so happen to get there without anyone's help...then congrats on "Your success of deciding to take the long road"...as for ME...I don't have the time to enjoy the ride...I need a path to cut across and get there quicker...without paying or begging a Master Crafter...so "IF" Crafting Lessons are added to the Crown Store...its really no skin off any of your noses...why..."because your already freakin' there."
So...if my posted idea causes you to feel cheated.."Get Over Yourself"...Change is for the better and it has come to a point where "ESO Players need to pull the "IDEA TRIGGERS" first and wait to see what arrives next"...after all...you have the option to keep your money and not have to watch us spend ours.
Wrong. Read above definition of pay 2 win,
No one said crafting gear for others to research is the problem. Because they still have to research it. Finding the traits to research has nothing to do with it. You want to be lazy and pay for a competitive advantage? Good for you, I don't think it should be put into the crownstore. Crafting researchable items is now cheating? So let me get this straight, you wanna add cheating to the crown store?
Sorry you argument and tone both fall flat. You want to cs to sell the items to be researched? Nooooo that would be cheating, you just want to remove the time to research them, lol flawed logic at its finest.0 -
Sigtric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭KUDOS TO: @STEVIL
Now to address all of the HATERS:
@Stopnaggin, @disintegr8, @bryanhaas, @Balibe, @Eocosa, @White wabbit, @Sigtric, @Tai-Chi, @helediron, @Kram8ion, @jlboozer, @nraner81, @Iluvrien, and any one else who disagrees
Out of 7 million ESO Players...just how many do you think are Crafters?...Lets be realistic...its hard to miss on a Character's Skill Bar...so...my guess would be...7 million.
Out of these 7 million Crafters (Masters or Not)...just how many got there without anyone else's help?...Hmmm...this is a bit harder to calculate...because all of the "Master Crafters" don't have a TITLE under their character's name that shouts "Hey I'm a MASTER CRAFTER"...so the 'only' way to brag about it...is to join a Guild and sell their services -OR- be a hero and help someone cheat for free. Oh yeah, I have seen Master Crafters create every item for someone else to research...cutting down on their time frame of having to find it first and then research it.
BTW...if you did just so happen to get there without anyone's help...then congrats on "Your success of deciding to take the long road"...as for ME...I don't have the time to enjoy the ride...I need a path to cut across and get there quicker...without paying or begging a Master Crafter...so "IF" Crafting Lessons are added to the Crown Store...its really no skin off any of your noses...why..."because your already freakin' there."
So...if my posted idea causes you to feel cheated.."Get Over Yourself"...Change is for the better and it has come to a point where "ESO Players need to pull the "IDEA TRIGGERS" first and wait to see what arrives next"...after all...you have the option to keep your money and not have to watch us spend ours.
Why am I included in your little hissy fit here? All I said is no thank you. Selling this stuff in the store goes directly against the no pay to win baseline it has set.
Go forth and get help from other people to level up crafting. That's fine. You shouldn't be able to buy it from the crown store.
Seems to me you need to suck it up and look at that nifty little graphic you posted and take it under your own consideration.
Stormproof: Vibeke - 50 EP mDragonknight | Savi Dreloth - 50 EP Magsorc | Sadi Dreloth - 50 EP Magblade | Sigtric Stormaxe - 50 EP Stamsorc | Valora Dreloth - 50 EP Magplar | Sigtric the Unbearable 50 EP Stam Warden
Scrub: Chews-on-Beavers - 50 EP DK Tank | Vera the Wild - 50 EP magicka Warden | Sigtric the Axe - 50 EP Dragonknight Crafter | Sigtric the Blade - 50 EP Lost Nightblade | Sigtric the Savage - 50 EP magicka Templar | Vibeka Shadowblade - 50 Ep Stealthy Ganky Nightblade |
Show Me Your Dunmer
[/center]2 -
Iluvrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭"You have looked at a system that is shallow, time-consuming and not enjoyable... and chosen the most boring possible way to try and address this."
Let's be clear, jargon aside and words in others mouths aside...
Maybe you find crafting shallow and not enjoyable. I dont.
I spent an entire post talking specifically about trait research... and you somehow seem to have generalised it to encompass my opinion of the entire crafting system. No, and no. It is because I enjoy crafting as a whole, that I would see this system (trait research) overhauled rather than cut-down and just stuck into the crown store.
This would have been obvious if you had considered it. I referred to your own treatment of the subject. Were you talking about putting the whole of crafting into the Crown Store? No. So why would you assume that I was talking about the whole of the system too?
On which basis your comment about putting "words in others mouths" may well have broken my irony meter. You reinterpreted my comment out of the context that you, yourself, had established... and that I had continued directly when explaining my three "buzzwords" (Hint: look at the text in the quotation marks in my post. Two only contain information about trait research, and the third refers to it directly by name).
I will assume that you weren't willfully misrepresenting my post so as to argue against a point I didn't actually make... for now. After all, there is a word for that kind of tactic...
... so shall we try this again with an even simpler construction:
Trait research itself (not mentioning any other part of crafting) is not an interesting system.
The answer to this is not to simplify it (1 day maximum time taken per trait) and then put parts of this in the crown store.
The answer to this is to make trait research (again, just this system,not crafting as a whole) more interesting and require more in the way of players actually doing things.
Clear?Now, if they want to add a new level to crafting, a massive craft-quest dlc thing - great fantastic wonderful.
ADD it. Have it be the crafting side equivalent to vmsa, vmol, trials etc.
Great!!! Would love it.
Excellent, considering that is what I, and others have been suggesting... pretty much since PC launch.
1 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Stopnaggin wrote: »@Stopnaggin
" If, again, they fix crafting to make crafted sets viable, then adding lessons to the crown store makes it p2w. "
The last vestige of the ones reduced to their last vestige.
Hint - it is not P2W to get to exactly what you can get in the game only quicker.
its like the definition of convenience.
But false P2W claims are thrown with practically every crown thing to denegrate the store as much as possible - even motifs got called P2W.
Methinks P2W is the new *** - first person to invoke it... you know the rest.
And we have our winner and new champ...
If I can buy an ability to make stronger gear that is by definition pay to win. Motifs are a different story, but bad none the less. Again how many point have you put into that passive aggressive skill line? Sorry but you are flat out wrong, pay to win is pay to win, coat it how you like, paying for a competitive advantage is pay to win.
It would be no different than adding tempers to the cs, you could upgrade the gear with out the in game effort. But you know why have to work for it right. I know let's add a token in the cs that will allow you to change traits on dropped trial gear too.
The crown store should remain cosmetic only. I don't think anyone was yelling about costumes and mounts. You wanna buy your way to the top, good for you, Im not buying into it.
Pay to win definition
Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.
Did you read the four words after your bold?
Anyone can get gear thru gameplay. No better gear would be available thru crown store than would be available in game.
That not p2w it's pay for convenience.
#ReadYourOwnQuoteProudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
Iluvrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭KUDOS TO: @STEVIL
Now to address all of the HATERS:
@Stopnaggin, @disintegr8, @bryanhaas, @Balibe, @Eocosa, @White wabbit, @Sigtric, @Tai-Chi, @helediron, @Kram8ion, @jlboozer, @nraner81, @Iluvrien, and any one else who disagrees
Out of 7 million ESO Players...just how many do you think are Crafters?...Lets be realistic...its hard to miss on a Character's Skill Bar...so...my guess would be...7 million.
Out of these 7 million Crafters (Masters or Not)...just how many got there without anyone else's help?...Hmmm...this is a bit harder to calculate...because all of the "Master Crafters" don't have a TITLE under their character's name that shouts "Hey I'm a MASTER CRAFTER"...so the 'only' way to brag about it...is to join a Guild and sell their services -OR- be a hero and help someone cheat for free. Oh yeah, I have seen Master Crafters create every item for someone else to research...cutting down on their time frame of having to find it first and then research it.
BTW...if you did just so happen to get there without anyone's help...then congrats on "Your success of deciding to take the long road"...as for ME...I don't have the time to enjoy the ride...I need a path to cut across and get there quicker...without paying or begging a Master Crafter...so "IF" Crafting Lessons are added to the Crown Store...its really no skin off any of your noses...why..."because your already freakin' there."
So...if my posted idea causes you to feel cheated.."Get Over Yourself"...Change is for the better and it has come to a point where "ESO Players need to pull the "IDEA TRIGGERS" first and wait to see what arrives next"...after all...you have the option to keep your money and not have to watch us spend ours.
Why am I included in your little hissy fit here? All I said is no thank you. Selling this stuff in the store goes directly against the no pay to win baseline it has set.
Go forth and get help from other people to level up crafting. That's fine. You shouldn't be able to buy it from the crown store.
Seems to me you need to suck it up and look at that nifty little graphic you posted and take it under your own consideration.
For the same reason I was... it is easier to dismiss what you are saying if you are classified as a "hater" rather than having to counter your arguments in any substantive fashion...
... it also provides the opportunity to post snappy little memes.1 -
Sigtric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭KUDOS TO: @STEVIL
Now to address all of the HATERS:
@Stopnaggin, @disintegr8, @bryanhaas, @Balibe, @Eocosa, @White wabbit, @Sigtric, @Tai-Chi, @helediron, @Kram8ion, @jlboozer, @nraner81, @Iluvrien, and any one else who disagrees
Out of 7 million ESO Players...just how many do you think are Crafters?...Lets be realistic...its hard to miss on a Character's Skill Bar...so...my guess would be...7 million.
Out of these 7 million Crafters (Masters or Not)...just how many got there without anyone else's help?...Hmmm...this is a bit harder to calculate...because all of the "Master Crafters" don't have a TITLE under their character's name that shouts "Hey I'm a MASTER CRAFTER"...so the 'only' way to brag about it...is to join a Guild and sell their services -OR- be a hero and help someone cheat for free. Oh yeah, I have seen Master Crafters create every item for someone else to research...cutting down on their time frame of having to find it first and then research it.
BTW...if you did just so happen to get there without anyone's help...then congrats on "Your success of deciding to take the long road"...as for ME...I don't have the time to enjoy the ride...I need a path to cut across and get there quicker...without paying or begging a Master Crafter...so "IF" Crafting Lessons are added to the Crown Store...its really no skin off any of your noses...why..."because your already freakin' there."
So...if my posted idea causes you to feel cheated.."Get Over Yourself"...Change is for the better and it has come to a point where "ESO Players need to pull the "IDEA TRIGGERS" first and wait to see what arrives next"...after all...you have the option to keep your money and not have to watch us spend ours.
Why am I included in your little hissy fit here? All I said is no thank you. Selling this stuff in the store goes directly against the no pay to win baseline it has set.
Go forth and get help from other people to level up crafting. That's fine. You shouldn't be able to buy it from the crown store.
Seems to me you need to suck it up and look at that nifty little graphic you posted and take it under your own consideration.
For the same reason I was... it is easier to dismiss what you are saying if you are classified as a "hater" rather than having to counter your arguments in any substantive fashion...
... it also provides the opportunity to post snappy little memes.
Oh... right!
Oh well.
Beer?
Stormproof: Vibeke - 50 EP mDragonknight | Savi Dreloth - 50 EP Magsorc | Sadi Dreloth - 50 EP Magblade | Sigtric Stormaxe - 50 EP Stamsorc | Valora Dreloth - 50 EP Magplar | Sigtric the Unbearable 50 EP Stam Warden
Scrub: Chews-on-Beavers - 50 EP DK Tank | Vera the Wild - 50 EP magicka Warden | Sigtric the Axe - 50 EP Dragonknight Crafter | Sigtric the Blade - 50 EP Lost Nightblade | Sigtric the Savage - 50 EP magicka Templar | Vibeka Shadowblade - 50 Ep Stealthy Ganky Nightblade |
Show Me Your Dunmer
[/center]0 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@Iluvrien
"The answer to this is to make trait research (again, just this system,not crafting as a whole) more interesting and require more in the way of players actually doing things.
Clear?"
Yes it's clear it's just wrong.
Sorry.
Well, not really.
But adding more work on the players part to the already out of whack core nuts and bolts traits system just moves it and the whole of equip crafting further out of whack with the others, further out of whack with its gains.
It further shifts the tipping point to farm and quest for drops. It further shifts the "worth the effort" crafting skill lines to consumables.
Like I said, I would love an artisan themed DLC with main quest lines geared around each craft and a larger global quest requiring multiple crafts maxed on one char with unique craftable for each craft quest success and for the more multi-crafted as well.
But working efforts, quests etc into the basic fundamental trait research pushes something already way out of balance even further.
The boat is sinking. You want to add cargo. I want faster bailing. How long can you swim?
Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
helediron✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Hihi, i was thinking @STEVIL throwing cargo over right after first breeze.
I've been sailing all my life. People panic too easily.On hiatus. PC,EU,AD - crafting completionist - @helediron 900+ cp, @helestor 1000+ cp, @helestar 800+ cp, @helester 700+ cp - Dragonborn Z Suomikilta, Harrods, Master Crafter. - Blog - Crafthouse: all stations, all munduses, all dummies, open to everyone0 -
Stopnaggin✭✭✭✭✭
✭Stopnaggin wrote: »@Stopnaggin
" If, again, they fix crafting to make crafted sets viable, then adding lessons to the crown store makes it p2w. "
The last vestige of the ones reduced to their last vestige.
Hint - it is not P2W to get to exactly what you can get in the game only quicker.
its like the definition of convenience.
But false P2W claims are thrown with practically every crown thing to denegrate the store as much as possible - even motifs got called P2W.
Methinks P2W is the new *** - first person to invoke it... you know the rest.
And we have our winner and new champ...
If I can buy an ability to make stronger gear that is by definition pay to win. Motifs are a different story, but bad none the less. Again how many point have you put into that passive aggressive skill line? Sorry but you are flat out wrong, pay to win is pay to win, coat it how you like, paying for a competitive advantage is pay to win.
It would be no different than adding tempers to the cs, you could upgrade the gear with out the in game effort. But you know why have to work for it right. I know let's add a token in the cs that will allow you to change traits on dropped trial gear too.
The crown store should remain cosmetic only. I don't think anyone was yelling about costumes and mounts. You wanna buy your way to the top, good for you, Im not buying into it.
Pay to win definition
Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.
Did you read the four words after your bold?
Anyone can get gear thru gameplay. No better gear would be available thru crown store than would be available in game.
That not p2w it's pay for convenience.
#ReadYourOwnQuote
Would like me to also bold the at a faster rate part, or do you not have enough points in reading comprehension? You would be paying to get better gear at a faster rate, ie pay 2 win. No matter how you try to word it, it would be an advantage over those who do not pay rlm, which if I remember right ZOS drew the line on this a long time ago.0 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Stopnaggin wrote: »Stopnaggin wrote: »@Stopnaggin
" If, again, they fix crafting to make crafted sets viable, then adding lessons to the crown store makes it p2w. "
The last vestige of the ones reduced to their last vestige.
Hint - it is not P2W to get to exactly what you can get in the game only quicker.
its like the definition of convenience.
But false P2W claims are thrown with practically every crown thing to denegrate the store as much as possible - even motifs got called P2W.
Methinks P2W is the new *** - first person to invoke it... you know the rest.
And we have our winner and new champ...
If I can buy an ability to make stronger gear that is by definition pay to win. Motifs are a different story, but bad none the less. Again how many point have you put into that passive aggressive skill line? Sorry but you are flat out wrong, pay to win is pay to win, coat it how you like, paying for a competitive advantage is pay to win.
It would be no different than adding tempers to the cs, you could upgrade the gear with out the in game effort. But you know why have to work for it right. I know let's add a token in the cs that will allow you to change traits on dropped trial gear too.
The crown store should remain cosmetic only. I don't think anyone was yelling about costumes and mounts. You wanna buy your way to the top, good for you, Im not buying into it.
Pay to win definition
Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.
Did you read the four words after your bold?
Anyone can get gear thru gameplay. No better gear would be available thru crown store than would be available in game.
That not p2w it's pay for convenience.
#ReadYourOwnQuote
Would like me to also bold the at a faster rate part, or do you not have enough points in reading comprehension? You would be paying to get better gear at a faster rate, ie pay 2 win. No matter how you try to word it, it would be an advantage over those who do not pay rlm, which if I remember right ZOS drew the line on this a long time ago.
Why cant you read the whole sentence...
"Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate "
there is no "or" between "better items than everyone else" and "at a faster rate".
Please, read that slowly if you have to.
"Faster rate" alone does not make P2W.
Really, it doesn't.
NOBODY who buys every crafting thing we are discussing here in the game can craft better gear than me and i haven't bought anything from the crown store.
PERIOD.
Until somehow a crown thingy makes me a second rate crafter, its not P2W.
So your definition says speeding up traits access by crown store is not P2W because there is no better gear or make better items than everyone else being added.
The only thing being changed is the time in calendar terms required to get to crafting ABC but their ABC is the same as my ABC.
Thats the problem with the ***/P2W proclamations- its always in the eye of the beholders who dont even read their own quotes fully and try and parse things instead of taking the full text.
We have a winner...
You are not the first to say getting the exact same power from crown store others get in game is P2W and you wont be the last to hoist that pitard.
just for you though, i am gonna go craft a bunch of trait gear pieces and sell them for 1gp in guild stores so more people can get faster, easier or cheaper traits.
Edited by STEVIL on December 28, 2016 2:37AMProudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
White wabbit✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@jinxedem
Now to address all of the HATERS:
@Stopnaggin, @disintegr8, @bryanhaas, @Balibe, @Eocosa, @White wabbit, @Sigtric, @Tai-Chi, @helediron, @Kram8ion, @jlboozer, @nraner81, @Iluvrien, and any one else who disagrees
Out of 7 million ESO Players...just how many do you think are Crafters?...Lets be realistic...its hard to miss on a Character's Skill Bar...so...my guess would be...7 million.
Out of these 7 million Crafters (Masters or Not)...just how many got there without anyone else's help?...Hmmm...this is a bit harder to calculate...because all of the "Master Crafters" don't have a TITLE under their character's name that shouts "Hey I'm a MASTER CRAFTER"...so the 'only' way to brag about it...is to join a Guild and sell their services -OR- be a hero and help someone cheat for free. Oh yeah, I have seen Master Crafters create every item for someone else to research...cutting down on their time frame of having to find it first and then research it.
BTW...if you did just so happen to get there without anyone's help...then congrats on "Your success of deciding to take the long road"...as for ME...I don't have the time to enjoy the ride...I need a path to cut across and get there quicker...without paying or begging a Master Crafter...so "IF" Crafting Lessons are added to the Crown Store...its really no skin off any of your noses...why..."because your already freakin' there."
So...if my posted idea causes you to feel cheated.."Get Over Yourself"...Change is for the better and it has come to a point where "ESO Players need to pull the "IDEA TRIGGERS" first and wait to see what arrives next"...after all...you have the option to keep your money and not have to watch us spend ours.
[/quote]
Sorry but posting things like thing really isn't going to help your cause ,and yes it is skin off my nose as I've had to put a massive effort to reach my goal you just want the quick and easy route , as for your new ideas can see where your coming from but only ideas that benefit a majority your idea probably only helps a small percentage p.s don't copy me in anything else0 -
Stopnaggin✭✭✭✭✭
✭Stopnaggin wrote: »Stopnaggin wrote: »@Stopnaggin
" If, again, they fix crafting to make crafted sets viable, then adding lessons to the crown store makes it p2w. "
The last vestige of the ones reduced to their last vestige.
Hint - it is not P2W to get to exactly what you can get in the game only quicker.
its like the definition of convenience.
But false P2W claims are thrown with practically every crown thing to denegrate the store as much as possible - even motifs got called P2W.
Methinks P2W is the new *** - first person to invoke it... you know the rest.
And we have our winner and new champ...
If I can buy an ability to make stronger gear that is by definition pay to win. Motifs are a different story, but bad none the less. Again how many point have you put into that passive aggressive skill line? Sorry but you are flat out wrong, pay to win is pay to win, coat it how you like, paying for a competitive advantage is pay to win.
It would be no different than adding tempers to the cs, you could upgrade the gear with out the in game effort. But you know why have to work for it right. I know let's add a token in the cs that will allow you to change traits on dropped trial gear too.
The crown store should remain cosmetic only. I don't think anyone was yelling about costumes and mounts. You wanna buy your way to the top, good for you, Im not buying into it.
Pay to win definition
Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.
Did you read the four words after your bold?
Anyone can get gear thru gameplay. No better gear would be available thru crown store than would be available in game.
That not p2w it's pay for convenience.
#ReadYourOwnQuote
Would like me to also bold the at a faster rate part, or do you not have enough points in reading comprehension? You would be paying to get better gear at a faster rate, ie pay 2 win. No matter how you try to word it, it would be an advantage over those who do not pay rlm, which if I remember right ZOS drew the line on this a long time ago.
Why cant you read the whole sentence...
"Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate "
there is no "or" between "better items than everyone else" and "at a faster rate".
Please, read that slowly if you have to.
"Faster rate" alone does not make P2W.
Really, it doesn't.
NOBODY who buys every crafting thing we are discussing here in the game can craft better gear than me and i haven't bought anything from the crown store.
PERIOD.
Until somehow a crown thingy makes me a second rate crafter, its not P2W.
So your definition says speeding up traits access by crown store is not P2W because there is no better gear or make better items than everyone else being added.
The only thing being changed is the time in calendar terms required to get to crafting ABC but their ABC is the same as my ABC.
Thats the problem with the ***/P2W proclamations- its always in the eye of the beholders who dont even read their own quotes fully and try and parse things instead of taking the full text.
We have a winner...
You are not the first to say getting the exact same power from crown store others get in game is P2W and you wont be the last to hoist that pitard.
just for you though, i am gonna go craft a bunch of trait gear pieces and sell them for 1gp in guild stores so more people can get faster, easier or cheaper traits.
Knock your self out. Again it's not aquiring the pieces to research. I will happily craft pieces for others to research. You two seem to think this is some kind of extra time to gather the gear with those traits, that has absolutely nothing to do with it.
You can defend your stance all you want, you can use you nifty words to try and make yourself sound smart. You can craft all the gear you want and give it all away. You can argue the tiny details of wording in a quote. All fine as you are entitled to your opinion, but as far as I'm concerned it is p2w. Anything that you can purchase to give you an advantage over someone else is p2w. The reason should be pretty clear, the only thing in the cs that offers this kind of service are the riding lessons, which does not equate to a competitive advantage.
Buying you way to being able to craft TBS over someone who didn't is a bought competitive advantage. I'll even go and explain easier. Run a marathon, but let's be able to buy milage off because I don't want to spend the time running the whole thing. I don't wanna buy a win, but I wanna buy a completion. Doesn't effect the other runners right? So why not?0 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Stopnaggin wrote: »Stopnaggin wrote: »Stopnaggin wrote: »@Stopnaggin
" If, again, they fix crafting to make crafted sets viable, then adding lessons to the crown store makes it p2w. "
The last vestige of the ones reduced to their last vestige.
Hint - it is not P2W to get to exactly what you can get in the game only quicker.
its like the definition of convenience.
But false P2W claims are thrown with practically every crown thing to denegrate the store as much as possible - even motifs got called P2W.
Methinks P2W is the new *** - first person to invoke it... you know the rest.
And we have our winner and new champ...
If I can buy an ability to make stronger gear that is by definition pay to win. Motifs are a different story, but bad none the less. Again how many point have you put into that passive aggressive skill line? Sorry but you are flat out wrong, pay to win is pay to win, coat it how you like, paying for a competitive advantage is pay to win.
It would be no different than adding tempers to the cs, you could upgrade the gear with out the in game effort. But you know why have to work for it right. I know let's add a token in the cs that will allow you to change traits on dropped trial gear too.
The crown store should remain cosmetic only. I don't think anyone was yelling about costumes and mounts. You wanna buy your way to the top, good for you, Im not buying into it.
Pay to win definition
Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.
Did you read the four words after your bold?
Anyone can get gear thru gameplay. No better gear would be available thru crown store than would be available in game.
That not p2w it's pay for convenience.
#ReadYourOwnQuote
Would like me to also bold the at a faster rate part, or do you not have enough points in reading comprehension? You would be paying to get better gear at a faster rate, ie pay 2 win. No matter how you try to word it, it would be an advantage over those who do not pay rlm, which if I remember right ZOS drew the line on this a long time ago.
Why cant you read the whole sentence...
"Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate "
there is no "or" between "better items than everyone else" and "at a faster rate".
Please, read that slowly if you have to.
"Faster rate" alone does not make P2W.
Really, it doesn't.
NOBODY who buys every crafting thing we are discussing here in the game can craft better gear than me and i haven't bought anything from the crown store.
PERIOD.
Until somehow a crown thingy makes me a second rate crafter, its not P2W.
So your definition says speeding up traits access by crown store is not P2W because there is no better gear or make better items than everyone else being added.
The only thing being changed is the time in calendar terms required to get to crafting ABC but their ABC is the same as my ABC.
Thats the problem with the ***/P2W proclamations- its always in the eye of the beholders who dont even read their own quotes fully and try and parse things instead of taking the full text.
We have a winner...
You are not the first to say getting the exact same power from crown store others get in game is P2W and you wont be the last to hoist that pitard.
just for you though, i am gonna go craft a bunch of trait gear pieces and sell them for 1gp in guild stores so more people can get faster, easier or cheaper traits.
Knock your self out. Again it's not aquiring the pieces to research. I will happily craft pieces for others to research. You two seem to think this is some kind of extra time to gather the gear with those traits, that has absolutely nothing to do with it.
You can defend your stance all you want, you can use you nifty words to try and make yourself sound smart. You can craft all the gear you want and give it all away. You can argue the tiny details of wording in a quote. All fine as you are entitled to your opinion, but as far as I'm concerned it is p2w. Anything that you can purchase to give you an advantage over someone else is p2w. The reason should be pretty clear, the only thing in the cs that offers this kind of service are the riding lessons, which does not equate to a competitive advantage.
Buying you way to being able to craft TBS over someone who didn't is a bought competitive advantage. I'll even go and explain easier. Run a marathon, but let's be able to buy milage off because I don't want to spend the time running the whole thing. I don't wanna buy a win, but I wanna buy a completion. Doesn't effect the other runners right? So why not?
Again the ***/p2W issue is that everyone can make up their own definitions and never budge - no matter how many words other people use apply.
But to your bold.
You are wrong.
You are equating getting to be able to craft TBS sooner than someone else as P2W if it comes thru the craft store.
You then site riding lessons and exclude them as no tactical advantage. (Obviously someone has never ridden fast to evade a situation or has never been knocked off mount due to it not having max stamina - but for many speed and not being force dismounted are both tactical in nature)
But lets consider - i can also buy experience scrolls from the craft store. These allow one character to get more xp than someone who did not use them. This allows that character to unlock skills, gain levels, gain higher gear caps even than other characters who have not bought them.
Would you not consider "i have my ult unlocked in 2/3 the experience you do" tyo be a tactical advantage?
Would you not consider buying a potions such as a scaling tripot an advantage over some characters who dont craft and dont buy from guild stores?
Sorry for using smart-sounding words at you but in fact you have mangled the meaning of P2W so far it becomes meaningless.
See, your definition has seemed to devolve to it being "Buying you way to being able to craft TBS over someone who didn't" and thats never what your quote said or meant.
See there will always be for anything of substance sold someone who doesn't do the in-game things that equal it. Thats why they are sold - to offer options for those not wanting to play thru that particular content or who have other reasons for needing it quicker.
thats the definition of convenience being used.
Experience scrolls, riding lessons, Vamp bites, WW, potions, foods, poisons and yes even motifs/mimic stones (craft to sele for gold which turns into...) will provide "advantages" in how fast you can get them and all will provide benefits above those who do not pursue them but are not giving anyone "better than" what can be gained in game.
The key to p2w in most definitions is whether or not you can get the same net result or better within the game without out-of-game money. if you can, its not p2w. if you cannot, its p2W.
once you decides its about any two characters not the whole game possibility, about the path and not the end point, p2w becomes amorphous to the point of just a new spelling of "me no likeee".
Sorry for the smart words.
Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
Stopnaggin✭✭✭✭✭
✭Stopnaggin wrote: »Stopnaggin wrote: »Stopnaggin wrote: »@Stopnaggin
" If, again, they fix crafting to make crafted sets viable, then adding lessons to the crown store makes it p2w. "
The last vestige of the ones reduced to their last vestige.
Hint - it is not P2W to get to exactly what you can get in the game only quicker.
its like the definition of convenience.
But false P2W claims are thrown with practically every crown thing to denegrate the store as much as possible - even motifs got called P2W.
Methinks P2W is the new *** - first person to invoke it... you know the rest.
And we have our winner and new champ...
If I can buy an ability to make stronger gear that is by definition pay to win. Motifs are a different story, but bad none the less. Again how many point have you put into that passive aggressive skill line? Sorry but you are flat out wrong, pay to win is pay to win, coat it how you like, paying for a competitive advantage is pay to win.
It would be no different than adding tempers to the cs, you could upgrade the gear with out the in game effort. But you know why have to work for it right. I know let's add a token in the cs that will allow you to change traits on dropped trial gear too.
The crown store should remain cosmetic only. I don't think anyone was yelling about costumes and mounts. You wanna buy your way to the top, good for you, Im not buying into it.
Pay to win definition
Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.
Did you read the four words after your bold?
Anyone can get gear thru gameplay. No better gear would be available thru crown store than would be available in game.
That not p2w it's pay for convenience.
#ReadYourOwnQuote
Would like me to also bold the at a faster rate part, or do you not have enough points in reading comprehension? You would be paying to get better gear at a faster rate, ie pay 2 win. No matter how you try to word it, it would be an advantage over those who do not pay rlm, which if I remember right ZOS drew the line on this a long time ago.
Why cant you read the whole sentence...
"Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate "
there is no "or" between "better items than everyone else" and "at a faster rate".
Please, read that slowly if you have to.
"Faster rate" alone does not make P2W.
Really, it doesn't.
NOBODY who buys every crafting thing we are discussing here in the game can craft better gear than me and i haven't bought anything from the crown store.
PERIOD.
Until somehow a crown thingy makes me a second rate crafter, its not P2W.
So your definition says speeding up traits access by crown store is not P2W because there is no better gear or make better items than everyone else being added.
The only thing being changed is the time in calendar terms required to get to crafting ABC but their ABC is the same as my ABC.
Thats the problem with the ***/P2W proclamations- its always in the eye of the beholders who dont even read their own quotes fully and try and parse things instead of taking the full text.
We have a winner...
You are not the first to say getting the exact same power from crown store others get in game is P2W and you wont be the last to hoist that pitard.
just for you though, i am gonna go craft a bunch of trait gear pieces and sell them for 1gp in guild stores so more people can get faster, easier or cheaper traits.
Knock your self out. Again it's not aquiring the pieces to research. I will happily craft pieces for others to research. You two seem to think this is some kind of extra time to gather the gear with those traits, that has absolutely nothing to do with it.
You can defend your stance all you want, you can use you nifty words to try and make yourself sound smart. You can craft all the gear you want and give it all away. You can argue the tiny details of wording in a quote. All fine as you are entitled to your opinion, but as far as I'm concerned it is p2w. Anything that you can purchase to give you an advantage over someone else is p2w. The reason should be pretty clear, the only thing in the cs that offers this kind of service are the riding lessons, which does not equate to a competitive advantage.
Buying you way to being able to craft TBS over someone who didn't is a bought competitive advantage. I'll even go and explain easier. Run a marathon, but let's be able to buy milage off because I don't want to spend the time running the whole thing. I don't wanna buy a win, but I wanna buy a completion. Doesn't effect the other runners right? So why not?
Again the ***/p2W issue is that everyone can make up their own definitions and never budge - no matter how many words other people use apply.
But to your bold.
You are wrong.
You are equating getting to be able to craft TBS sooner than someone else as P2W if it comes thru the craft store.
You then site riding lessons and exclude them as no tactical advantage. (Obviously someone has never ridden fast to evade a situation or has never been knocked off mount due to it not having max stamina - but for many speed and not being force dismounted are both tactical in nature)
But lets consider - i can also buy experience scrolls from the craft store. These allow one character to get more xp than someone who did not use them. This allows that character to unlock skills, gain levels, gain higher gear caps even than other characters who have not bought them.
Would you not consider "i have my ult unlocked in 2/3 the experience you do" tyo be a tactical advantage?
Would you not consider buying a potions such as a scaling tripot an advantage over some characters who dont craft and dont buy from guild stores?
Sorry for using smart-sounding words at you but in fact you have mangled the meaning of P2W so far it becomes meaningless.
See, your definition has seemed to devolve to it being "Buying you way to being able to craft TBS over someone who didn't" and thats never what your quote said or meant.
See there will always be for anything of substance sold someone who doesn't do the in-game things that equal it. Thats why they are sold - to offer options for those not wanting to play thru that particular content or who have other reasons for needing it quicker.
thats the definition of convenience being used.
Experience scrolls, riding lessons, Vamp bites, WW, potions, foods, poisons and yes even motifs/mimic stones (craft to sele for gold which turns into...) will provide "advantages" in how fast you can get them and all will provide benefits above those who do not pursue them but are not giving anyone "better than" what can be gained in game.
The key to p2w in most definitions is whether or not you can get the same net result or better within the game without out-of-game money. if you can, its not p2w. if you cannot, its p2W.
once you decides its about any two characters not the whole game possibility, about the path and not the end point, p2w becomes amorphous to the point of just a new spelling of "me no likeee".
Sorry for the smart words.
For the record don't like the riding lessons or xp scrolls. But let's take a look and see. Riding lessons, 1000 crowns for 10. Leaves you with 50 more slots, so you buy 5 more. All the time is taken out of it. So you spent 60 bucks to gain the speed perks. Which as far as a tactical advantage it is only slight if really at all. I have skills unlocked that reduces detection range and stamina in cp passives.
WW and vamp bites, ok do you also have the entire skill line after buying them? Maybe they should sell the complete package.
My quote still is the same as it ever was tbs was an example, now you can try and twist that however you want with verbal gymnastics. And yes in a lesseer form selling style stones from mimic stones is rlm for gold exchange. Same as the tbs example, you buy things from the cs to profit in game, in game gold buys better gear. You have essentially paid to win. I guess the same could be said for WW and vamp bites.
No need to apologize for your words, if it makes you fell somehow smarter or think it makes your arguments better, than by all means.
0 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Stopnaggin wrote: »Stopnaggin wrote: »Stopnaggin wrote: »Stopnaggin wrote: »@Stopnaggin
" If, again, they fix crafting to make crafted sets viable, then adding lessons to the crown store makes it p2w. "
The last vestige of the ones reduced to their last vestige.
Hint - it is not P2W to get to exactly what you can get in the game only quicker.
its like the definition of convenience.
But false P2W claims are thrown with practically every crown thing to denegrate the store as much as possible - even motifs got called P2W.
Methinks P2W is the new *** - first person to invoke it... you know the rest.
And we have our winner and new champ...
If I can buy an ability to make stronger gear that is by definition pay to win. Motifs are a different story, but bad none the less. Again how many point have you put into that passive aggressive skill line? Sorry but you are flat out wrong, pay to win is pay to win, coat it how you like, paying for a competitive advantage is pay to win.
It would be no different than adding tempers to the cs, you could upgrade the gear with out the in game effort. But you know why have to work for it right. I know let's add a token in the cs that will allow you to change traits on dropped trial gear too.
The crown store should remain cosmetic only. I don't think anyone was yelling about costumes and mounts. You wanna buy your way to the top, good for you, Im not buying into it.
Pay to win definition
Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.
Did you read the four words after your bold?
Anyone can get gear thru gameplay. No better gear would be available thru crown store than would be available in game.
That not p2w it's pay for convenience.
#ReadYourOwnQuote
Would like me to also bold the at a faster rate part, or do you not have enough points in reading comprehension? You would be paying to get better gear at a faster rate, ie pay 2 win. No matter how you try to word it, it would be an advantage over those who do not pay rlm, which if I remember right ZOS drew the line on this a long time ago.
Why cant you read the whole sentence...
"Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate "
there is no "or" between "better items than everyone else" and "at a faster rate".
Please, read that slowly if you have to.
"Faster rate" alone does not make P2W.
Really, it doesn't.
NOBODY who buys every crafting thing we are discussing here in the game can craft better gear than me and i haven't bought anything from the crown store.
PERIOD.
Until somehow a crown thingy makes me a second rate crafter, its not P2W.
So your definition says speeding up traits access by crown store is not P2W because there is no better gear or make better items than everyone else being added.
The only thing being changed is the time in calendar terms required to get to crafting ABC but their ABC is the same as my ABC.
Thats the problem with the ***/P2W proclamations- its always in the eye of the beholders who dont even read their own quotes fully and try and parse things instead of taking the full text.
We have a winner...
You are not the first to say getting the exact same power from crown store others get in game is P2W and you wont be the last to hoist that pitard.
just for you though, i am gonna go craft a bunch of trait gear pieces and sell them for 1gp in guild stores so more people can get faster, easier or cheaper traits.
Knock your self out. Again it's not aquiring the pieces to research. I will happily craft pieces for others to research. You two seem to think this is some kind of extra time to gather the gear with those traits, that has absolutely nothing to do with it.
You can defend your stance all you want, you can use you nifty words to try and make yourself sound smart. You can craft all the gear you want and give it all away. You can argue the tiny details of wording in a quote. All fine as you are entitled to your opinion, but as far as I'm concerned it is p2w. Anything that you can purchase to give you an advantage over someone else is p2w. The reason should be pretty clear, the only thing in the cs that offers this kind of service are the riding lessons, which does not equate to a competitive advantage.
Buying you way to being able to craft TBS over someone who didn't is a bought competitive advantage. I'll even go and explain easier. Run a marathon, but let's be able to buy milage off because I don't want to spend the time running the whole thing. I don't wanna buy a win, but I wanna buy a completion. Doesn't effect the other runners right? So why not?
Again the ***/p2W issue is that everyone can make up their own definitions and never budge - no matter how many words other people use apply.
But to your bold.
You are wrong.
You are equating getting to be able to craft TBS sooner than someone else as P2W if it comes thru the craft store.
You then site riding lessons and exclude them as no tactical advantage. (Obviously someone has never ridden fast to evade a situation or has never been knocked off mount due to it not having max stamina - but for many speed and not being force dismounted are both tactical in nature)
But lets consider - i can also buy experience scrolls from the craft store. These allow one character to get more xp than someone who did not use them. This allows that character to unlock skills, gain levels, gain higher gear caps even than other characters who have not bought them.
Would you not consider "i have my ult unlocked in 2/3 the experience you do" tyo be a tactical advantage?
Would you not consider buying a potions such as a scaling tripot an advantage over some characters who dont craft and dont buy from guild stores?
Sorry for using smart-sounding words at you but in fact you have mangled the meaning of P2W so far it becomes meaningless.
See, your definition has seemed to devolve to it being "Buying you way to being able to craft TBS over someone who didn't" and thats never what your quote said or meant.
See there will always be for anything of substance sold someone who doesn't do the in-game things that equal it. Thats why they are sold - to offer options for those not wanting to play thru that particular content or who have other reasons for needing it quicker.
thats the definition of convenience being used.
Experience scrolls, riding lessons, Vamp bites, WW, potions, foods, poisons and yes even motifs/mimic stones (craft to sele for gold which turns into...) will provide "advantages" in how fast you can get them and all will provide benefits above those who do not pursue them but are not giving anyone "better than" what can be gained in game.
The key to p2w in most definitions is whether or not you can get the same net result or better within the game without out-of-game money. if you can, its not p2w. if you cannot, its p2W.
once you decides its about any two characters not the whole game possibility, about the path and not the end point, p2w becomes amorphous to the point of just a new spelling of "me no likeee".
Sorry for the smart words.
For the record don't like the riding lessons or xp scrolls. But let's take a look and see. Riding lessons, 1000 crowns for 10. Leaves you with 50 more slots, so you buy 5 more. All the time is taken out of it. So you spent 60 bucks to gain the speed perks. Which as far as a tactical advantage it is only slight if really at all. I have skills unlocked that reduces detection range and stamina in cp passives.
WW and vamp bites, ok do you also have the entire skill line after buying them? Maybe they should sell the complete package.
My quote still is the same as it ever was tbs was an example, now you can try and twist that however you want with verbal gymnastics. And yes in a lesseer form selling style stones from mimic stones is rlm for gold exchange. Same as the tbs example, you buy things from the cs to profit in game, in game gold buys better gear. You have essentially paid to win. I guess the same could be said for WW and vamp bites.
No need to apologize for your words, if it makes you fell somehow smarter or think it makes your arguments better, than by all means.
First bold on vamp and ww bites - no they dont include any skill points in the bite, just the ability to spend skill, points as you unlock the skills. in the new line. Just like say if you bought trait stone they wouldn't give you the ability to craft other than say iron/jute/maple unless you then spent time earning xp and spent skill points etc. Matter of fact, Vamp and WW is likely the closest parallel, since it also has a rather calendar linked window for new moon full moon then try to find living pack difficulties - which can be aided by PCs having already done it and advanced.
Second bold on again, your quote and your establishing exactly what i said... your definition now seems to lump ww bites, vamp bites, riding, etc all under p2w. Even though not one of them gives you anything better than you can get in game.
And again back to your quote, there are no verbal gymnastics involved in MY reading of it. It is a sentence... read straight and plain it is very clear
"Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying."
There is no way to read that barring your own verbal gymnastics or added punctuation to have it say "allow you to gain more quickly the ability to make the same gear as everyone else" which is what you are reading it... tho maybe you portray it as "allow you to gain more quickly the ability to make the same gear as anyone else" which seems an ever greater verbal gymnastic feat - deserving an 11 out of 10 score except from the east german judge.
but P2W is like ***, in the eye of the beholder.
last vestige and all that.
Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
When I realize people only understand from their level of perception...then it is time to stop...they will never get it.
Thankfully there is hope...because the ZOS Team of men and women who work on ESO every day to improve and enhance the game will be the FINAL determining factor as to whether "Crafting Lessons" are added to the Crown Store.
It would be an "Amazing New Thing" in the upcoming new year.
Edited by SoberAlias on December 28, 2016 6:23PM0 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭When I realize people only understand from their level of perception...then it is time to stop...they will never get it.
Thankfully there is hope...because the ZOS Team of men and women who work on ESO every day to improve and enhance the game will be the FINAL determining factor as to whether "Crafting Lessons" are added to the Crown Store.
It would be an "Amazing New Thing" in the upcoming new year.
hoping for lotsa good stuff for crafting this next year myself.Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
Stopnaggin✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well considering the vamp and WW bites, hadn't though about being able to sell those, but as you can only bite 1 per week isn't an effective to to convert rlm to gold. Mimic stones are a different matter, as those can be bought and deconed and then they style stones sold at whatever price.
More gold to buy in game items that can give a competitive advantage. While yes those can be obtained by farming it's much easier if you can create a direct link or exchange of rlm to in game gold. So if I was able to buy master crafter I could directly pay rlm to earn in game gold, and also bypass any time constraints and sell 9 trait sets, individual pieces for research and any upgrades. Same principle with people buying mimic stones and making FrostCaster to sell the style stones. Not to mention that you would also bypass the time and be able to raft best in slot for yourself.
While all of this is no big deal atm, if they happen to fix crafting and crafted sets in particular, then it would become even more apperant.0 -
disintegr8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@jinxedem - ZOS are not putting a lot of time and effort into "improving and enhancing" the game, They are putting most of their time and effort into new and useless things like player housing and things they can sell us, like new costumes, crown crates, etc.
My original response to this thread, 16 days ago mind you, was not about 'hating', it was about how one of the best parts of this game is that you get to choose which direction you want to take a character and that choice can lead to restrictions on other things that are available. Unfortunately we are a society today that refuses to accept these limitations in real life and this is being brought into the game.
Someone wants to be CEO of a global company, doesn't have time to get married or have kids until 50 and suddenly it is not fair that find they are too old to have children naturally. Someone really enjoys their lower paying job and has no desire to do anything that pays better suddenly complains that they cannot afford one of the 4 bed, 3 bath houses going up in the next suburb. These days it is acceptable to simply say 'it is not fair' and look for a workaround.
Take a look on the flip side of your argument. You can not level up and use your crafting skills without making an effort to go and get the skill points to put into the skill lines. Would it be fine for those people to request skill points be sold in the Crown store to give them a 'short cut' instead of having to do it the hard way?
Yes I am old school and proud of it. I completed Cadwells silver and gold to reach Vet16, I have 8 characters maxed out on the crafting skill lines and they have all (or are in the process of) completed all of their rider training without a trip to the Crown store. I have a 9 trait crafter and another on 8 traits but I do not sell my services - I make things for guildies and friends.
Just to finish off, do you have any wonderful advice for those who cannot afford to buy things in the crown store?
How do they find their 'short cut' to all that this game has to offer?Australian on PS4 NA server.
Everyone's entitled to an opinion.0 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭disintegr8 wrote: »@jinxedem - ZOS are not putting a lot of time and effort into "improving and enhancing" the game, They are putting most of their time and effort into new and useless things like player housing and things they can sell us, like new costumes, crown crates, etc.
My original response to this thread, 16 days ago mind you, was not about 'hating', it was about how one of the best parts of this game is that you get to choose which direction you want to take a character and that choice can lead to restrictions on other things that are available. Unfortunately we are a society today that refuses to accept these limitations in real life and this is being brought into the game.
Someone wants to be CEO of a global company, doesn't have time to get married or have kids until 50 and suddenly it is not fair that find they are too old to have children naturally. Someone really enjoys their lower paying job and has no desire to do anything that pays better suddenly complains that they cannot afford one of the 4 bed, 3 bath houses going up in the next suburb. These days it is acceptable to simply say 'it is not fair' and look for a workaround.
Take a look on the flip side of your argument. You can not level up and use your crafting skills without making an effort to go and get the skill points to put into the skill lines. Would it be fine for those people to request skill points be sold in the Crown store to give them a 'short cut' instead of having to do it the hard way?
Yes I am old school and proud of it. I completed Cadwells silver and gold to reach Vet16, I have 8 characters maxed out on the crafting skill lines and they have all (or are in the process of) completed all of their rider training without a trip to the Crown store. I have a 9 trait crafter and another on 8 traits but I do not sell my services - I make things for guildies and friends.
Just to finish off, do you have any wonderful advice for those who cannot afford to buy things in the crown store?
How do they find their 'short cut' to all that this game has to offer?
Another old schooler here - have 10 cp160s - i know 4-6 of them got there by vet levels and the rest were cp160 at 50 - tho at least two of them were already vets like 1-10 or so when that happened. other two are 20s started after 1T. One of the cp160+ was run up from 17 after 1T.
All my master crafters came thru old school, before 1T before even champ levels replaced vets.
And yes, IRL when dealing with profession and family and all that jazz you have to prioritize. But just the same thing applies in game but with "how much time do you have to play". It doesn't HAVE TO BE that you also apply the "prioritization" again a second time within the game for "you can craft or you can do other things" kind of stuff.
if you let in game time rule the roost you hand the advantage to the constant players who dont have to juggle those things or who just prioritize things differently.
As for directly buying skill points, so far that only exists in the form of boosting experience. So far getting ultimates unlocked or leveled up faster has not been seen as P2W or game breaking. No more so than say having one player play 6 hours a week and another play 6 hours a day.
The rate of progression varies from player to player from circumstance to circumstance - a fact that is often seemingly lost on folks who consider XP scrolls, WW bites, Vamp bites, potions, food, poisons and riding lessons P2W.
But what i am talking about here is simply two things, all brought to bear because there is a fundamental error by comparison to gains vs time for equip crafting esp traits as compared to anything else in the game. it is so far off it is very much a deterrent to crafting IMX. To be clear - i have only one of each equip crafter with max traits. i have multiple provisioners at max, multiple enchanters at max and even have pretty close to multiple alchemists at max (almost a second.) Alchemy is only left behind because of the consumables there is just zero gain from having a second high ranked.
The traits system (and to a degree motifs) makes advancing alts not worthwhile.
So, to me it needs adjustment - shifted to a flat cost 1 day per trait to help use it to do what the other "daily tickers" do - stimulate more participation. IMO allowing crown store trait buys is another good option. Doesn't do you much good without the skills and mats but allows you to sidestep a passive calendar.
As for those not interested in the crown store - as i said - i want the trait time brought down a lot for everyone. other than that they can of course reduce acquisition using guild stores. They can get faster advancement using crafting buddies or even in the case of enchants and equip decons - alts. There are plenty of "fast leveling guides" out there for alchemy - get to 50 in an hour or so." Same for provisioning.
But right now, traits are the one aspect of crafting put on a really off kilter time scale totally divorced from its benefits.
Not much can be done.
i have helped people level up their enchanting dozens of levels in a day. Same for crafting. Alchemy and provisioning advance already at breakneck speed - esp for alts.
But somehow some folks think options to speed up traits is imbalancing or game breaking or impunes their honor.
Not something i agree with and so we support different ideas.
Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
helediron✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I would say that trait system is well designed because of this. Turning everything too easy is the #1 sin of game developer. Maybe the real problem is that we can learn alchemy in sixteen minutes.
...snip...disintegr8 wrote: »@jinxedem - ZOS are not putting a lot of time and effort into "improving and enhancing" the game, They are putting most of their time and effort into new and useless things like player housing and things they can sell us, like new costumes, crown crates, etc.
My original response to this thread, 16 days ago mind you, was not about 'hating', it was about how one of the best parts of this game is that you get to choose which direction you want to take a character and that choice can lead to restrictions on other things that are available. Unfortunately we are a society today that refuses to accept these limitations in real life and this is being brought into the game.
Someone wants to be CEO of a global company, doesn't have time to get married or have kids until 50 and suddenly it is not fair that find they are too old to have children naturally. Someone really enjoys their lower paying job and has no desire to do anything that pays better suddenly complains that they cannot afford one of the 4 bed, 3 bath houses going up in the next suburb. These days it is acceptable to simply say 'it is not fair' and look for a workaround.
Take a look on the flip side of your argument. You can not level up and use your crafting skills without making an effort to go and get the skill points to put into the skill lines. Would it be fine for those people to request skill points be sold in the Crown store to give them a 'short cut' instead of having to do it the hard way?
Yes I am old school and proud of it. I completed Cadwells silver and gold to reach Vet16, I have 8 characters maxed out on the crafting skill lines and they have all (or are in the process of) completed all of their rider training without a trip to the Crown store. I have a 9 trait crafter and another on 8 traits but I do not sell my services - I make things for guildies and friends.
Just to finish off, do you have any wonderful advice for those who cannot afford to buy things in the crown store?
How do they find their 'short cut' to all that this game has to offer?
But right now, traits are the one aspect of crafting put on a really off kilter time scale totally divorced from its benefits.
...snip...
On hiatus. PC,EU,AD - crafting completionist - @helediron 900+ cp, @helestor 1000+ cp, @helestar 800+ cp, @helester 700+ cp - Dragonborn Z Suomikilta, Harrods, Master Crafter. - Blog - Crafthouse: all stations, all munduses, all dummies, open to everyone0 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
I would say that trait system is well designed because of this. Turning everything too easy is the #1 sin of game developer. Maybe the real problem is that we can learn alchemy in sixteen minutes.
...snip...disintegr8 wrote: »@jinxedem - ZOS are not putting a lot of time and effort into "improving and enhancing" the game, They are putting most of their time and effort into new and useless things like player housing and things they can sell us, like new costumes, crown crates, etc.
My original response to this thread, 16 days ago mind you, was not about 'hating', it was about how one of the best parts of this game is that you get to choose which direction you want to take a character and that choice can lead to restrictions on other things that are available. Unfortunately we are a society today that refuses to accept these limitations in real life and this is being brought into the game.
Someone wants to be CEO of a global company, doesn't have time to get married or have kids until 50 and suddenly it is not fair that find they are too old to have children naturally. Someone really enjoys their lower paying job and has no desire to do anything that pays better suddenly complains that they cannot afford one of the 4 bed, 3 bath houses going up in the next suburb. These days it is acceptable to simply say 'it is not fair' and look for a workaround.
Take a look on the flip side of your argument. You can not level up and use your crafting skills without making an effort to go and get the skill points to put into the skill lines. Would it be fine for those people to request skill points be sold in the Crown store to give them a 'short cut' instead of having to do it the hard way?
Yes I am old school and proud of it. I completed Cadwells silver and gold to reach Vet16, I have 8 characters maxed out on the crafting skill lines and they have all (or are in the process of) completed all of their rider training without a trip to the Crown store. I have a 9 trait crafter and another on 8 traits but I do not sell my services - I make things for guildies and friends.
Just to finish off, do you have any wonderful advice for those who cannot afford to buy things in the crown store?
How do they find their 'short cut' to all that this game has to offer?
But right now, traits are the one aspect of crafting put on a really off kilter time scale totally divorced from its benefits.
...snip...
yeah well hey you know maybe the way to spark interest in crafting is to make it all take longer cuz you know that appeals to so many people.
how about a week between learning each new ingredient pairing for alchemy?
get two hits to uncover one, come back in two weeks.
how about a month between recipes?
this game would be so much more awesome with weekly timers on everything.
How about a 1 day timer on getting a set piece to drop? Kill a delve boss, no more set pieces for 24 hours?
Wait, we already have testimony that a day is way too quick... make it a week cuz for some people just waiting is more fun than just doing.
lets put the same escalating timer timer currently on the traits and on everything else - set drops, alchemy matches, rune traits, vma runs, dungeon runs, etc
cuz nothing says "fun" like"nah i got another 12 hours before that pays off."
but hey in all seriousness if you want to address the issues by slowing everything down in the game, make the pitch, make the proposal, put some meat on the bones and lets see how popular the idea is.
But my bet is most of the folks unhappy with the state of crafting right now aren't going to be happy if the outcome is to nerf and lessen the other crafts so they equally suck.
but always nerfers in every crowd.
Edited by STEVIL on December 29, 2016 12:34AMProudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
Kram8ion✭✭✭✭✭Well I'm nearly finished 9traits and it's a long haul like this whole game I think that's the ideaWhite wabbit wrote: »@jinxedem
Now to address all of the HATERS:
@Stopnaggin, @disintegr8, @bryanhaas, @Balibe, @Eocosa, @White wabbit, @Sigtric, @Tai-Chi, @helediron, @Kram8ion, @jlboozer, @nraner81, @Iluvrien, and any one else who disagrees
Out of 7 million ESO Players...just how many do you think are Crafters?...Lets be realistic...its hard to miss on a Character's Skill Bar...so...my guess would be...7 million.
Out of these 7 million Crafters (Masters or Not)...just how many got there without anyone else's help?...Hmmm...this is a bit harder to calculate...because all of the "Master Crafters" don't have a TITLE under their character's name that shouts "Hey I'm a MASTER CRAFTER"...so the 'only' way to brag about it...is to join a Guild and sell their services -OR- be a hero and help someone cheat for free. Oh yeah, I have seen Master Crafters create every item for someone else to research...cutting down on their time frame of having to find it first and then research it.
BTW...if you did just so happen to get there without anyone's help...then congrats on "Your success of deciding to take the long road"...as for ME...I don't have the time to enjoy the ride...I need a path to cut across and get there quicker...without paying or begging a Master Crafter...so "IF" Crafting Lessons are added to the Crown Store...its really no skin off any of your noses...why..."because your already freakin' there."
So...if my posted idea causes you to feel cheated.."Get Over Yourself"...Change is for the better and it has come to a point where "ESO Players need to pull the "IDEA TRIGGERS" first and wait to see what arrives next"...after all...you have the option to keep your money and not have to watch us spend ours.
Sorry but posting things like thing really isn't going to help your cause ,and yes it is skin off my nose as I've had to put a massive effort to reach my goal you just want the quick and easy route , as for your new ideas can see where your coming from but only ideas that benefit a majority your idea probably only helps a small percentage p.s don't copy me in anything else [/quote]
What hate are you talking about? If your getting hate from my comment then you've got bigger problems
But thanks for making me feel I belong to a group all be it " haters" cheersps4eu
Kramm stam man kittyblade0 -
helediron✭✭✭✭✭
✭
And again just random raging. There is nothing in here.
I would say that trait system is well designed because of this. Turning everything too easy is the #1 sin of game developer. Maybe the real problem is that we can learn alchemy in sixteen minutes.
...snip...disintegr8 wrote: »@jinxedem - ZOS are not putting a lot of time and effort into "improving and enhancing" the game, They are putting most of their time and effort into new and useless things like player housing and things they can sell us, like new costumes, crown crates, etc.
My original response to this thread, 16 days ago mind you, was not about 'hating', it was about how one of the best parts of this game is that you get to choose which direction you want to take a character and that choice can lead to restrictions on other things that are available. Unfortunately we are a society today that refuses to accept these limitations in real life and this is being brought into the game.
Someone wants to be CEO of a global company, doesn't have time to get married or have kids until 50 and suddenly it is not fair that find they are too old to have children naturally. Someone really enjoys their lower paying job and has no desire to do anything that pays better suddenly complains that they cannot afford one of the 4 bed, 3 bath houses going up in the next suburb. These days it is acceptable to simply say 'it is not fair' and look for a workaround.
Take a look on the flip side of your argument. You can not level up and use your crafting skills without making an effort to go and get the skill points to put into the skill lines. Would it be fine for those people to request skill points be sold in the Crown store to give them a 'short cut' instead of having to do it the hard way?
Yes I am old school and proud of it. I completed Cadwells silver and gold to reach Vet16, I have 8 characters maxed out on the crafting skill lines and they have all (or are in the process of) completed all of their rider training without a trip to the Crown store. I have a 9 trait crafter and another on 8 traits but I do not sell my services - I make things for guildies and friends.
Just to finish off, do you have any wonderful advice for those who cannot afford to buy things in the crown store?
How do they find their 'short cut' to all that this game has to offer?
But right now, traits are the one aspect of crafting put on a really off kilter time scale totally divorced from its benefits.
...snip...
yeah well hey you know maybe the way to spark interest in crafting is to make it all take longer cuz you know that appeals to so many people.
how about a week between learning each new ingredient pairing for alchemy?
get two hits to uncover one, come back in two weeks.
how about a month between recipes?
this game would be so much more awesome with weekly timers on everything.
How about a 1 day timer on getting a set piece to drop? Kill a delve boss, no more set pieces for 24 hours?
Wait, we already have testimony that a day is way too quick... make it a week cuz for some people just waiting is more fun than just doing.
lets put the same escalating timer timer currently on the traits and on everything else - set drops, alchemy matches, rune traits, vma runs, dungeon runs, etc
cuz nothing says "fun" like"nah i got another 12 hours before that pays off."
but hey in all seriousness if you want to address the issues by slowing everything down in the game, make the pitch, make the proposal, put some meat on the bones and lets see how popular the idea is.
But my bet is most of the folks unhappy with the state of crafting right now aren't going to be happy if the outcome is to nerf and lessen the other crafts so they equally suck.
but always nerfers in every crowd.
I am seeing new players happily learning traits, and i daily send trait copies for free. It is one of the guild activities bonding people together. The system works.On hiatus. PC,EU,AD - crafting completionist - @helediron 900+ cp, @helestor 1000+ cp, @helestar 800+ cp, @helester 700+ cp - Dragonborn Z Suomikilta, Harrods, Master Crafter. - Blog - Crafthouse: all stations, all munduses, all dummies, open to everyone0 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
And again just random raging. There is nothing in here.
I would say that trait system is well designed because of this. Turning everything too easy is the #1 sin of game developer. Maybe the real problem is that we can learn alchemy in sixteen minutes.
...snip...disintegr8 wrote: »@jinxedem - ZOS are not putting a lot of time and effort into "improving and enhancing" the game, They are putting most of their time and effort into new and useless things like player housing and things they can sell us, like new costumes, crown crates, etc.
My original response to this thread, 16 days ago mind you, was not about 'hating', it was about how one of the best parts of this game is that you get to choose which direction you want to take a character and that choice can lead to restrictions on other things that are available. Unfortunately we are a society today that refuses to accept these limitations in real life and this is being brought into the game.
Someone wants to be CEO of a global company, doesn't have time to get married or have kids until 50 and suddenly it is not fair that find they are too old to have children naturally. Someone really enjoys their lower paying job and has no desire to do anything that pays better suddenly complains that they cannot afford one of the 4 bed, 3 bath houses going up in the next suburb. These days it is acceptable to simply say 'it is not fair' and look for a workaround.
Take a look on the flip side of your argument. You can not level up and use your crafting skills without making an effort to go and get the skill points to put into the skill lines. Would it be fine for those people to request skill points be sold in the Crown store to give them a 'short cut' instead of having to do it the hard way?
Yes I am old school and proud of it. I completed Cadwells silver and gold to reach Vet16, I have 8 characters maxed out on the crafting skill lines and they have all (or are in the process of) completed all of their rider training without a trip to the Crown store. I have a 9 trait crafter and another on 8 traits but I do not sell my services - I make things for guildies and friends.
Just to finish off, do you have any wonderful advice for those who cannot afford to buy things in the crown store?
How do they find their 'short cut' to all that this game has to offer?
But right now, traits are the one aspect of crafting put on a really off kilter time scale totally divorced from its benefits.
...snip...
yeah well hey you know maybe the way to spark interest in crafting is to make it all take longer cuz you know that appeals to so many people.
how about a week between learning each new ingredient pairing for alchemy?
get two hits to uncover one, come back in two weeks.
how about a month between recipes?
this game would be so much more awesome with weekly timers on everything.
How about a 1 day timer on getting a set piece to drop? Kill a delve boss, no more set pieces for 24 hours?
Wait, we already have testimony that a day is way too quick... make it a week cuz for some people just waiting is more fun than just doing.
lets put the same escalating timer timer currently on the traits and on everything else - set drops, alchemy matches, rune traits, vma runs, dungeon runs, etc
cuz nothing says "fun" like"nah i got another 12 hours before that pays off."
but hey in all seriousness if you want to address the issues by slowing everything down in the game, make the pitch, make the proposal, put some meat on the bones and lets see how popular the idea is.
But my bet is most of the folks unhappy with the state of crafting right now aren't going to be happy if the outcome is to nerf and lessen the other crafts so they equally suck.
but always nerfers in every crowd.
I am seeing new players happily learning traits, and i daily send trait copies for free. It is one of the guild activities bonding people together. The system works.
And again just random raging. There is nothing in here.
I would say that trait system is well designed because of this. Turning everything too easy is the #1 sin of game developer. Maybe the real problem is that we can learn alchemy in sixteen minutes.
...snip...disintegr8 wrote: »@jinxedem - ZOS are not putting a lot of time and effort into "improving and enhancing" the game, They are putting most of their time and effort into new and useless things like player housing and things they can sell us, like new costumes, crown crates, etc.
My original response to this thread, 16 days ago mind you, was not about 'hating', it was about how one of the best parts of this game is that you get to choose which direction you want to take a character and that choice can lead to restrictions on other things that are available. Unfortunately we are a society today that refuses to accept these limitations in real life and this is being brought into the game.
Someone wants to be CEO of a global company, doesn't have time to get married or have kids until 50 and suddenly it is not fair that find they are too old to have children naturally. Someone really enjoys their lower paying job and has no desire to do anything that pays better suddenly complains that they cannot afford one of the 4 bed, 3 bath houses going up in the next suburb. These days it is acceptable to simply say 'it is not fair' and look for a workaround.
Take a look on the flip side of your argument. You can not level up and use your crafting skills without making an effort to go and get the skill points to put into the skill lines. Would it be fine for those people to request skill points be sold in the Crown store to give them a 'short cut' instead of having to do it the hard way?
Yes I am old school and proud of it. I completed Cadwells silver and gold to reach Vet16, I have 8 characters maxed out on the crafting skill lines and they have all (or are in the process of) completed all of their rider training without a trip to the Crown store. I have a 9 trait crafter and another on 8 traits but I do not sell my services - I make things for guildies and friends.
Just to finish off, do you have any wonderful advice for those who cannot afford to buy things in the crown store?
How do they find their 'short cut' to all that this game has to offer?
But right now, traits are the one aspect of crafting put on a really off kilter time scale totally divorced from its benefits.
...snip...
yeah well hey you know maybe the way to spark interest in crafting is to make it all take longer cuz you know that appeals to so many people.
how about a week between learning each new ingredient pairing for alchemy?
get two hits to uncover one, come back in two weeks.
how about a month between recipes?
this game would be so much more awesome with weekly timers on everything.
How about a 1 day timer on getting a set piece to drop? Kill a delve boss, no more set pieces for 24 hours?
Wait, we already have testimony that a day is way too quick... make it a week cuz for some people just waiting is more fun than just doing.
lets put the same escalating timer timer currently on the traits and on everything else - set drops, alchemy matches, rune traits, vma runs, dungeon runs, etc
cuz nothing says "fun" like"nah i got another 12 hours before that pays off."
but hey in all seriousness if you want to address the issues by slowing everything down in the game, make the pitch, make the proposal, put some meat on the bones and lets see how popular the idea is.
But my bet is most of the folks unhappy with the state of crafting right now aren't going to be happy if the outcome is to nerf and lessen the other crafts so they equally suck.
but always nerfers in every crowd.
I am seeing new players happily learning traits, and i daily send trait copies for free. It is one of the guild activities bonding people together. The system works.
Just anecdotal some-folks-do-like-what-i-like here, Nothing in there.
Totally ignores the fact that the proposals would allow that practice described to continue unabated while offering options for those not as enlightened (read - with different preferences or lifestyles)
BTW: i see people playing proc sets every day. i see people playing mag dk every day. i see people playing mag sorc pet builds every day, i see people playing lots of things every day which some others think need changes made to and just cuz i see some people playing something doesn't mean i should turn off my analysis part of my brain or dismiss the other people's concerns.
Edited by STEVIL on December 29, 2016 12:34PMProudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0