Add Crafting Lessons To The Crown Store

SoberAlias

For those of us that would rather "just play the game", but are already on ESO....so we just go ahead and research items, create potions/translate runes in order to get the achievements anyways...why not add crafting lessons to the Crown Store to cut down on the time frame?

disintegr8

Crafting, farming, researching, etc, are all parts of the game, so for some people 'just play the game' means these rather than questing, dungeons, trials, etc.

You have a choice which direction you want to take in the game and I am against paying to advance any aspect of the game that someone may find boring because they would rather stick to what they think is the exciting stuff.

Stopnaggin

Stop trying to add everything to the crown store. It seems like people want everything behind a paywall. Just no. Earn your stripes like everyone else. Golden vendor, apothecary satchels, low levels to get skill from cyrodill, they have done enough to make the game easy for people.

bryanhaas

jinxedem wrote: »

For those of us that would rather "just play the game", but are already on ESO....so we just go ahead and research items, create potions/translate runes in order to get the achievements anyways...why not add crafting lessons to the Crown Store to cut down on the time frame?

Hell no!

Balibe

bryanhaas wrote: »

jinxedem wrote: »

For those of us that would rather "just play the game", but are already on ESO....so we just go ahead and research items, create potions/translate runes in order to get the achievements anyways...why not add crafting lessons to the Crown Store to cut down on the time frame?

Hell no!

+1

STEVIL

I want massive reduction to trait research times IN GAME not thru crowns, but would be ok with both.

Imo max it at 1 day per trait.

Stopnaggin

As I've stated before, just no. They have reduced the times already. Why should those few master crafters be diminished even further? 18 months of research, tons of farming motifs, or tons of gold buying motifs. Everything does not need to come easy in the game.

I've spent, no invested, 2 years + in this game. I've watched it go to the casual crowd. While inviting new players is a good thing, handing them everything is not the way to go. Maybe MMO'S aren't your type of game. The grind is part of it. I'm proud when I achieve something in this game that takes that kind of commitment. Master crafter is close to being my next one, master angler was awsome. First HM trial clear, all milestones I can look back on and be proud. Seriously just put in the effort, stop asking for everything to be put in crown store or made easier.

Eocosa

I personally feel that crafting is not too bad even while you just play the game.

You'll get quest rewards or drops that you can get trait research from and while it may take time, they added some safe guards so you won't have to have a notebook which you cross off what traits you have prior to deconstruction which only helps you.

In terms of "leveling" crafting, I simply deconstructed items I couldn't sell for very good and didn't need the traits for and you'll find you level them up quite quickly and organically while you level.

The 9-trait time block may be a bit much for some peoples taste, but it IS something that goes on in the background so it's not really preventing you from playing and simply adds a bit of time prior to making some of the best suits in game (well up to 1T at least).

White wabbit

From someone that's had to put the effort in to reaching 9 traits on everything ! No just No , put the effort in like everyone else has to

Sigtric

No thank you. This directly influences gameplay. Should not be in the store.

STEVIL

Stopnaggin wrote: »

As I've stated before, just no. They have reduced the times already. Why should those few master crafters be diminished even further? 18 months of research, tons of farming motifs, or tons of gold buying motifs. Everything does not need to come easy in the game.

I've spent, no invested, 2 years + in this game. I've watched it go to the casual crowd. While inviting new players is a good thing, handing them everything is not the way to go. Maybe MMO'S aren't your type of game. The grind is part of it. I'm proud when I achieve something in this game that takes that kind of commitment. Master crafter is close to being my next one, master angler was awsome. First HM trial clear, all milestones I can look back on and be proud. Seriously just put in the effort, stop asking for everything to be put in crown store or made easier.

First, who is asking for existing master crafters to lose anything? I am not. When my master crafter hit maz, it did not take away from you. Its not like i get tier-10 and you drop to tier-9.

Second, the reasons i propose reducing max trait time to 1 day are two-fold.

For one, at 1 day it promotes activity... like horses or deliveries, it rewards constsnt activity with the developing characters.

By contrast, as i progressed thru equip crafting and the trait times moved in a week then a month, they became forgettable. Its was so l9ng between "time toncue new research" i never logged into a char thinking "time to craft" but once in a while looked in to see if it tripped over.

So, longer than one day reduces the draw/interest/lure factor.


For another, it way way out of sync with the other crafts. The consumables are far quicker to level, dont have anything like trait times and produce gear far superior to drops. The equip crafting not nearly producing the same superiority over drops (esp for traits where the big time drain hit.) Its nonsensical to require a lot more time, same skill spent and give less net gain over drop. In reality, you get a much bigger bang for buck from the fast leveling equip parts (better mats, cheaper quality) than you gain for the extra huge time sunk into the last couple of traits.

Tai-Chi

disintegr8 wrote: »

Crafting, farming, researching, etc, are all parts of the game, so for some people 'just play the game' means these rather than questing, dungeons, trials, etc.

You have a choice which direction you want to take in the game and I am against paying to advance any aspect of the game that someone may find boring because they would rather stick to what they think is the exciting stuff.

I agree with what is said here and with most of the sentiments expressed by @Stopnaggin in point #7.

As for @STEVIL 's comment in point #11:
ie - "First, who is asking for existing master crafters to lose anything? I am not. When my master crafter hit maz, it did not take away from you. Its not like i get tier-10 and you drop to tier-9."

I am rather surprised to hear such a naiive comment from someone whom is a long-standing player. Can you not see that asking existing master crafters to loose something in-game is exactly what you are doing? I am sorry that you sometimes forget to set your crafters new research tasks to complete but tough, it happens sometimes. Time passes too quickly when you are out and about, maybe having fun Elsewhere. ('scuse the pun).

Using the same type of argument, one could say that buying Alliance Points from the Crown Store does not subtract any number of points from the Alliance Points earned by any other player and therefore why should it matter? The answer is, of course it matters because it can affect another's game both directly and indirectly to gain an unfair advantage.

@Sigtric reminds everyone succinctly (point #10) by saying "No thank you. This directly influences gameplay. Should not be in the store".

Stopnaggin

STEVIL wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

As I've stated before, just no. They have reduced the times already. Why should those few master crafters be diminished even further? 18 months of research, tons of farming motifs, or tons of gold buying motifs. Everything does not need to come easy in the game.

I've spent, no invested, 2 years + in this game. I've watched it go to the casual crowd. While inviting new players is a good thing, handing them everything is not the way to go. Maybe MMO'S aren't your type of game. The grind is part of it. I'm proud when I achieve something in this game that takes that kind of commitment. Master crafter is close to being my next one, master angler was awsome. First HM trial clear, all milestones I can look back on and be proud. Seriously just put in the effort, stop asking for everything to be put in crown store or made easier.

First, who is asking for existing master crafters to lose anything? I am not. When my master crafter hit maz, it did not take away from you. Its not like i get tier-10 and you drop to tier-9.

Second, the reasons i propose reducing max trait time to 1 day are two-fold.

For one, at 1 day it promotes activity... like horses or deliveries, it rewards constsnt activity with the developing characters.

By contrast, as i progressed thru equip crafting and the trait times moved in a week then a month, they became forgettable. Its was so l9ng between "time toncue new research" i never logged into a char thinking "time to craft" but once in a while looked in to see if it tripped over.

So, longer than one day reduces the draw/interest/lure factor.


For another, it way way out of sync with the other crafts. The consumables are far quicker to level, dont have anything like trait times and produce gear far superior to drops. The equip crafting not nearly producing the same superiority over drops (esp for traits where the big time drain hit.) Its nonsensical to require a lot more time, same skill spent and give less net gain over drop. In reality, you get a much bigger bang for buck from the fast leveling equip parts (better mats, cheaper quality) than you gain for the extra huge time sunk into the last couple of traits.

I'll have to disagree. It's a slap in the face to those who have previously put in the effort. If you don't check your research, that's on you. It cheapens the need for crafters for starters. You make something a 1 day research what does that do for me? Why did I spend 18 months and tons of gold to become a master crafter? So some can say they are a master crafter after 30 days? They have already added the 4th level of research and an extra 10% for eso plus.

I'm sorry but they are well on their way to killing crafting crafting as a viable profession. All this need things faster is getting old. Or maybe it's just to us old players who spent all the time doing things that are now getting easier. I remember when certain skills took alot longer to level in Cyrodill, they lowered them and yet people still complain. Yes it takes away a certain amount of prestige that was earned. So in that way it does take away from those of us who had to earn our stripes.

I agree it's out of line with say provisioning or alchemy, but really how hard is it to mix 4 ingredients together to get a potion? Enchanting still takes a bit of effort, but there again were not talking about the same investment, time or money wise. I know I have spent over 2 mil.in gold gathering or buying motifs, so I can say yep master crafter all styles.

In closing if you can't see how it cheapens the achievement of being a master crafter, then we will have to agree to disagree.

STEVIL

@Tai-Chi
@Stopnaggin

Put simply, i believe that the following would be good for crafting (equip):
1 - reduce trait research to 1 day max per trait or even make it a flat one day = one trait time frame from first trait to last trait (keep the same 3 traits skills max thingy)
2 - Allow trait lessons in craft store to allow you to buy a given trait for a given weapon/piece. possibly charge less for prosperous, charged, training - non-end game traits. heck, even if it excluded the BiS conmtender traits like sharp, precise, nirn and a few others, thats fine too.

None of these would make me feel my crafter's anvil isn't as hard as it used to be or that my crafter's needle isn't as long as it once was.

To the points you raised...

First off, my equip crafters finished their advancement long ago. So i literally have nothing to gain and no axe to grind here on the subject. just like i have characters who made the trek to vr16 the old way and characters who got the promotion when vet level went away and cp=lvl became account wide, i am very aware of the differences between slow and steady and quickie.

Second, while "crafting" has an impact on gameplay in that it allows you to create gear, advancing the speed with which you gain crafting does not. it makes not one point of difference in any fight whether the enemy got his gear by months of crafting research, buying quickie from crown store, or weeks of crafting research (my 1 day trait max) or with instant gratification from guild vendors. The end result is the same, all that is being made different is how long it takes to get to the point and that can vary an awful lot just by available playtime. So, sorry i dont see this as any more a "game impact" vs "convenience" than say horse skills or vampire/werewolf lines. The destination in game remains identical, just the road taken to get there. To specific reference the @sigtric #10, nobody is asking for "if i buy crown crafting its getting me better gear than if i just do crafting the old way" - only the route one takes to get to the exact same impact on gameplay include a crown store option as well as the long road. (or in my case, trait times reduced.)

How you get to a or b is convenience, not impact. What you can do once you get to A or b is impact and nobody is asking for crowing boost there.


Third, my face remained slap free for all my rank 60 horse chars when they started putting horse lessons in the crown store even though i had characters who had "spent the time" or "put in the effort" .
My face also remained slap free when they made the leapfrog vet levels 1-15 to go straight to cp160, even though i had four maybe five who had done the trek to vet16 the old way, "put in the effort" so to speak.
It would remain slap free if they reduce trait time to 1 day max or put "trait learnin'" into crown stores, even though i have full 9 trait crafters maxed etc.
The reason all these are true is that i did all these things for me and for what they allowed my characters to do and that has not changed one bit. For me it isn't any kind of "i can craft TBS and you cannot" sense of superiority thing, just a simple "can i do this or not."

Fourth, I am one of the most vocal proponents for equip crafting needing a serious improvement in the wake of 1T. My posts are numerous and my sig contains a list of changes i think need to be made. What i dont get is the notion that somehow you can link "making crafting quicker or more convenient in crown store or by reducing the trait time to max 1 day to them killing crafting. if anything, making crafting more advancable (get it to maybe not as fast as the consumables but at least not months maybe weeks) will encourage more people to take up crafting, not add nails to the coffins.

Fifth, you missed the point about 1 day vs weeks or month. its not about forgetting. its about getting to be so long it ceases to be of any interest on a daily basis. I literally log in every character every day because of daily deliveries. i literally log-in every character who has horse capacity lessons every day to buy that next inventory slot (or sometimes speed). I literally log-in every character every day who has Db suppliers to get my alchemy stuff. I literally login my writ characters every day ro run writs. (Every day = every day i login at all - obviously some days i cannot login like vacations or hospitals or other commitments.) These things draw me into characters access even if i dont plan to run those that day. Some days i have logged in and done just these. Many other games use the same types of mechanics, daily timers promote logging in to even just click those activities. once they move to weeks or months between access - it ceases to promote any significant increase in access, in activity.

Sixth, its not like those 8th and 9th traits are dealbreakers in power. Sure, TBS requires 9 but Hundings and Julianos are both what six? The bang for buck/time up to six traits is very very very superior to the bang for buck/time for the last three traits. Learn sharpened, precise, nirned, powered, defending and infused and that leaves you with days to weeks each for charged, training and prosperous (is that the ninth?) Does it really make sense to you to spend more time learning trained, prosperous and charged than the other six combined?

Finally to, @Tai-Chi i dont see anything naive about not feeling i have lost something just because someone else gains something similar. This isn't an ego thing for me just a functionality thing and frankly, even with functionality, i recognize in a living game things may change so the "boon" i got one day might get reduced at some later point. (Doesn't mean i wont fight to get it fixed, as i do now for crafting.)

And finally finally to @Stopnaggin we will have to agree to disagree on whether or not in a living breathing game where things change having an achievement you already acquired become acquirable by different roads somehow lessons mine or yours. When the nfl went to 16 game seasons, all those who had achieved 1000 yd rushing in shorter seasons did not suddenly lose the credibility of that achievement. if anything, theirs became MORE SIGNIFICANT, since it was acquired in a shorter time frame. (though one can argue the high value passing mode these days shifts that back some... so as in ESo, ebbs and flows.)


But to be equally clear, i am NOT in favor of allowing any "buy scroll to gain inspirations" kind of cash for "experience in skill line thing" for any skill. (but really, its not the "levels of skill" that slows down equip crafting anywhere near as much as the traits.

bryanhaas

Stopnaggin wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

As I've stated before, just no. They have reduced the times already. Why should those few master crafters be diminished even further? 18 months of research, tons of farming motifs, or tons of gold buying motifs. Everything does not need to come easy in the game.

I've spent, no invested, 2 years + in this game. I've watched it go to the casual crowd. While inviting new players is a good thing, handing them everything is not the way to go. Maybe MMO'S aren't your type of game. The grind is part of it. I'm proud when I achieve something in this game that takes that kind of commitment. Master crafter is close to being my next one, master angler was awsome. First HM trial clear, all milestones I can look back on and be proud. Seriously just put in the effort, stop asking for everything to be put in crown store or made easier.

First, who is asking for existing master crafters to lose anything? I am not. When my master crafter hit maz, it did not take away from you. Its not like i get tier-10 and you drop to tier-9.

Second, the reasons i propose reducing max trait time to 1 day are two-fold.

For one, at 1 day it promotes activity... like horses or deliveries, it rewards constsnt activity with the developing characters.

By contrast, as i progressed thru equip crafting and the trait times moved in a week then a month, they became forgettable. Its was so l9ng between "time toncue new research" i never logged into a char thinking "time to craft" but once in a while looked in to see if it tripped over.

So, longer than one day reduces the draw/interest/lure factor.


For another, it way way out of sync with the other crafts. The consumables are far quicker to level, dont have anything like trait times and produce gear far superior to drops. The equip crafting not nearly producing the same superiority over drops (esp for traits where the big time drain hit.) Its nonsensical to require a lot more time, same skill spent and give less net gain over drop. In reality, you get a much bigger bang for buck from the fast leveling equip parts (better mats, cheaper quality) than you gain for the extra huge time sunk into the last couple of traits.

I'll have to disagree. It's a slap in the face to those who have previously put in the effort. If you don't check your research, that's on you. It cheapens the need for crafters for starters. You make something a 1 day research what does that do for me? Why did I spend 18 months and tons of gold to become a master crafter? So some can say they are a master crafter after 30 days? They have already added the 4th level of research and an extra 10% for eso plus.

I'm sorry but they are well on their way to killing crafting crafting as a viable profession. All this need things faster is getting old. Or maybe it's just to us old players who spent all the time doing things that are now getting easier. I remember when certain skills took alot longer to level in Cyrodill, they lowered them and yet people still complain. Yes it takes away a certain amount of prestige that was earned. So in that way it does take away from those of us who had to earn our stripes.

I agree it's out of line with say provisioning or alchemy, but really how hard is it to mix 4 ingredients together to get a potion? Enchanting still takes a bit of effort, but there again were not talking about the same investment, time or money wise. I know I have spent over 2 mil.in gold gathering or buying motifs, so I can say yep master crafter all styles.

In closing if you can't see how it cheapens the achievement of being a master crafter, then we will have to agree to disagree.

+1

bryanhaas

Here is another example, you have worked somewhere for 10 years vying for a position. Then management changes the rules and someone new who knows nothing about the business gets it.

Would you be happy? Would you feel your effort was invalidated?

Stopnaggin

STEVIL wrote: »

@Tai-Chi
@Stopnaggin

Put simply, i believe that the following would be good for crafting (equip):
1 - reduce trait research to 1 day max per trait or even make it a flat one day = one trait time frame from first trait to last trait (keep the same 3 traits skills max thingy)
2 - Allow trait lessons in craft store to allow you to buy a given trait for a given weapon/piece. possibly charge less for prosperous, charged, training - non-end game traits. heck, even if it excluded the BiS conmtender traits like sharp, precise, nirn and a few others, thats fine too.

None of these would make me feel my crafter's anvil isn't as hard as it used to be or that my crafter's needle isn't as long as it once was.

To the points you raised...

First off, my equip crafters finished their advancement long ago. So i literally have nothing to gain and no axe to grind here on the subject. just like i have characters who made the trek to vr16 the old way and characters who got the promotion when vet level went away and cp=lvl became account wide, i am very aware of the differences between slow and steady and quickie.

Second, while "crafting" has an impact on gameplay in that it allows you to create gear, advancing the speed with which you gain crafting does not. it makes not one point of difference in any fight whether the enemy got his gear by months of crafting research, buying quickie from crown store, or weeks of crafting research (my 1 day trait max) or with instant gratification from guild vendors. The end result is the same, all that is being made different is how long it takes to get to the point and that can vary an awful lot just by available playtime. So, sorry i dont see this as any more a "game impact" vs "convenience" than say horse skills or vampire/werewolf lines. The destination in game remains identical, just the road taken to get there. To specific reference the @sigtric #10, nobody is asking for "if i buy crown crafting its getting me better gear than if i just do crafting the old way" - only the route one takes to get to the exact same impact on gameplay include a crown store option as well as the long road. (or in my case, trait times reduced.)

How you get to a or b is convenience, not impact. What you can do once you get to A or b is impact and nobody is asking for crowing boost there.


Third, my face remained slap free for all my rank 60 horse chars when they started putting horse lessons in the crown store even though i had characters who had "spent the time" or "put in the effort" .
My face also remained slap free when they made the leapfrog vet levels 1-15 to go straight to cp160, even though i had four maybe five who had done the trek to vet16 the old way, "put in the effort" so to speak.
It would remain slap free if they reduce trait time to 1 day max or put "trait learnin'" into crown stores, even though i have full 9 trait crafters maxed etc.
The reason all these are true is that i did all these things for me and for what they allowed my characters to do and that has not changed one bit. For me it isn't any kind of "i can craft TBS and you cannot" sense of superiority thing, just a simple "can i do this or not."

Fourth, I am one of the most vocal proponents for equip crafting needing a serious improvement in the wake of 1T. My posts are numerous and my sig contains a list of changes i think need to be made. What i dont get is the notion that somehow you can link "making crafting quicker or more convenient in crown store or by reducing the trait time to max 1 day to them killing crafting. if anything, making crafting more advancable (get it to maybe not as fast as the consumables but at least not months maybe weeks) will encourage more people to take up crafting, not add nails to the coffins.

Fifth, you missed the point about 1 day vs weeks or month. its not about forgetting. its about getting to be so long it ceases to be of any interest on a daily basis. I literally log in every character every day because of daily deliveries. i literally log-in every character who has horse capacity lessons every day to buy that next inventory slot (or sometimes speed). I literally log-in every character every day who has Db suppliers to get my alchemy stuff. I literally login my writ characters every day ro run writs. (Every day = every day i login at all - obviously some days i cannot login like vacations or hospitals or other commitments.) These things draw me into characters access even if i dont plan to run those that day. Some days i have logged in and done just these. Many other games use the same types of mechanics, daily timers promote logging in to even just click those activities. once they move to weeks or months between access - it ceases to promote any significant increase in access, in activity.

Sixth, its not like those 8th and 9th traits are dealbreakers in power. Sure, TBS requires 9 but Hundings and Julianos are both what six? The bang for buck/time up to six traits is very very very superior to the bang for buck/time for the last three traits. Learn sharpened, precise, nirned, powered, defending and infused and that leaves you with days to weeks each for charged, training and prosperous (is that the ninth?) Does it really make sense to you to spend more time learning trained, prosperous and charged than the other six combined?

Finally to, @Tai-Chi i dont see anything naive about not feeling i have lost something just because someone else gains something similar. This isn't an ego thing for me just a functionality thing and frankly, even with functionality, i recognize in a living game things may change so the "boon" i got one day might get reduced at some later point. (Doesn't mean i wont fight to get it fixed, as i do now for crafting.)

And finally finally to @Stopnaggin we will have to agree to disagree on whether or not in a living breathing game where things change having an achievement you already acquired become acquirable by different roads somehow lessons mine or yours. When the nfl went to 16 game seasons, all those who had achieved 1000 yd rushing in shorter seasons did not suddenly lose the credibility of that achievement. if anything, theirs became MORE SIGNIFICANT, since it was acquired in a shorter time frame. (though one can argue the high value passing mode these days shifts that back some... so as in ESo, ebbs and flows.)


But to be equally clear, i am NOT in favor of allowing any "buy scroll to gain inspirations" kind of cash for "experience in skill line thing" for any skill. (but really, its not the "levels of skill" that slows down equip crafting anywhere near as much as the traits.

No you and I are pretty much on the same page about crafting improvements.

On the nfl side note yes those who held records before 16 game seasons are better recognized for their acomplishments then the newer players, but to draw that comparison to eso is not apples to apples. The nfl isn't making it easier to gain rushing titles or records, they are not diluting to pool so to speak. And while you may not feel the sting of ZOS making things easier, I can't say I feel the same.

I was there for the Vr system, cp transition. And the reason I have no problems with that is was junk from the start. I also see the need to have a fresh player base to keep the game alive. I don't believe they need to shorten everything for the sake of bringing in people, who more than likely won't stay. I have watched Zos cave on several fronts to appease the casual base, and some I agree with, others not so much. To me if there is no journey and I can get instant gratification what's the point. I will have played myself out before I ever got started. The game as most mmos is a grind. I can't see a 10 year plan if they make it too easy to "end game".

Stopnaggin

bryanhaas wrote: »

Here is another example, you have worked somewhere for 10 years vying for a position. Then management changes the rules and someone new who knows nothing about the business gets it.

Would you be happy? Would you feel your effort was invalidated?

I'm not quite sure about the first part there. Why would anyone be happy about that situation? Would I feel my effort was invalidated, no I would feel my effort was wasted. So how is this any different than my previous posts?

Are you saying if you got undercut by someone and lost your job you'd be happy? Even after all the effort you put in, to hand a job to someone who wasn't qualified, you be all roses and chocolates?

Edit nevermind I read that wrong.

STEVIL

bryanhaas wrote: »

Here is another example, you have worked somewhere for 10 years vying for a position. Then management changes the rules and someone new who knows nothing about the business gets it.

Would you be happy? Would you feel your effort was invalidated?

Thanks for making my point.

I couldn't have said it better.

In your example, you do the long road and end up NOT GETTING what you were after. (like say if someone crowns in and you drop from tier-10 to tier-9 as a result or more exaclty if just as you reach tier-9 they change it so teir-10 is gained another way.)

In this case, its more akin, using your example, the management decides to expand and creates a new position, so there are two openings, and you get one of them.

You still got exactly what you worked for, every step of the way.

See... see.. you wanted X, you were told you had to do abc to get x, you did abc, you got x... then you get up in arms over how shafted you were?

thank again for making my point.

helediron

No to shortening trait research in any way. Crafting is and should stay the game for patient players. It should also stay viable part of end game.

For me even current system was pretty fast. I had nine traits on everything at account level after about four months after Craglorn, divided over five crafters.

In fact i'd like to see a crafting championship system, which would take years to complete like cp system. Crafting has been stalled for two years. It would be a change to wrong direction if reaching top tier crafting were silly easy.

We don't need to "lure" in new players to crafting. Most of the players who ended up crafters were actually attracted by the patience required in it. I have seen new players committing to crafting.

STEVIL

Stopnaggin wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

@Tai-Chi
@Stopnaggin

Put simply, i believe that the following would be good for crafting (equip):
1 - reduce trait research to 1 day max per trait or even make it a flat one day = one trait time frame from first trait to last trait (keep the same 3 traits skills max thingy)
2 - Allow trait lessons in craft store to allow you to buy a given trait for a given weapon/piece. possibly charge less for prosperous, charged, training - non-end game traits. heck, even if it excluded the BiS conmtender traits like sharp, precise, nirn and a few others, thats fine too.

None of these would make me feel my crafter's anvil isn't as hard as it used to be or that my crafter's needle isn't as long as it once was.

To the points you raised...

First off, my equip crafters finished their advancement long ago. So i literally have nothing to gain and no axe to grind here on the subject. just like i have characters who made the trek to vr16 the old way and characters who got the promotion when vet level went away and cp=lvl became account wide, i am very aware of the differences between slow and steady and quickie.

Second, while "crafting" has an impact on gameplay in that it allows you to create gear, advancing the speed with which you gain crafting does not. it makes not one point of difference in any fight whether the enemy got his gear by months of crafting research, buying quickie from crown store, or weeks of crafting research (my 1 day trait max) or with instant gratification from guild vendors. The end result is the same, all that is being made different is how long it takes to get to the point and that can vary an awful lot just by available playtime. So, sorry i dont see this as any more a "game impact" vs "convenience" than say horse skills or vampire/werewolf lines. The destination in game remains identical, just the road taken to get there. To specific reference the @sigtric #10, nobody is asking for "if i buy crown crafting its getting me better gear than if i just do crafting the old way" - only the route one takes to get to the exact same impact on gameplay include a crown store option as well as the long road. (or in my case, trait times reduced.)

How you get to a or b is convenience, not impact. What you can do once you get to A or b is impact and nobody is asking for crowing boost there.


Third, my face remained slap free for all my rank 60 horse chars when they started putting horse lessons in the crown store even though i had characters who had "spent the time" or "put in the effort" .
My face also remained slap free when they made the leapfrog vet levels 1-15 to go straight to cp160, even though i had four maybe five who had done the trek to vet16 the old way, "put in the effort" so to speak.
It would remain slap free if they reduce trait time to 1 day max or put "trait learnin'" into crown stores, even though i have full 9 trait crafters maxed etc.
The reason all these are true is that i did all these things for me and for what they allowed my characters to do and that has not changed one bit. For me it isn't any kind of "i can craft TBS and you cannot" sense of superiority thing, just a simple "can i do this or not."

Fourth, I am one of the most vocal proponents for equip crafting needing a serious improvement in the wake of 1T. My posts are numerous and my sig contains a list of changes i think need to be made. What i dont get is the notion that somehow you can link "making crafting quicker or more convenient in crown store or by reducing the trait time to max 1 day to them killing crafting. if anything, making crafting more advancable (get it to maybe not as fast as the consumables but at least not months maybe weeks) will encourage more people to take up crafting, not add nails to the coffins.

Fifth, you missed the point about 1 day vs weeks or month. its not about forgetting. its about getting to be so long it ceases to be of any interest on a daily basis. I literally log in every character every day because of daily deliveries. i literally log-in every character who has horse capacity lessons every day to buy that next inventory slot (or sometimes speed). I literally log-in every character every day who has Db suppliers to get my alchemy stuff. I literally login my writ characters every day ro run writs. (Every day = every day i login at all - obviously some days i cannot login like vacations or hospitals or other commitments.) These things draw me into characters access even if i dont plan to run those that day. Some days i have logged in and done just these. Many other games use the same types of mechanics, daily timers promote logging in to even just click those activities. once they move to weeks or months between access - it ceases to promote any significant increase in access, in activity.

Sixth, its not like those 8th and 9th traits are dealbreakers in power. Sure, TBS requires 9 but Hundings and Julianos are both what six? The bang for buck/time up to six traits is very very very superior to the bang for buck/time for the last three traits. Learn sharpened, precise, nirned, powered, defending and infused and that leaves you with days to weeks each for charged, training and prosperous (is that the ninth?) Does it really make sense to you to spend more time learning trained, prosperous and charged than the other six combined?

Finally to, @Tai-Chi i dont see anything naive about not feeling i have lost something just because someone else gains something similar. This isn't an ego thing for me just a functionality thing and frankly, even with functionality, i recognize in a living game things may change so the "boon" i got one day might get reduced at some later point. (Doesn't mean i wont fight to get it fixed, as i do now for crafting.)

And finally finally to @Stopnaggin we will have to agree to disagree on whether or not in a living breathing game where things change having an achievement you already acquired become acquirable by different roads somehow lessons mine or yours. When the nfl went to 16 game seasons, all those who had achieved 1000 yd rushing in shorter seasons did not suddenly lose the credibility of that achievement. if anything, theirs became MORE SIGNIFICANT, since it was acquired in a shorter time frame. (though one can argue the high value passing mode these days shifts that back some... so as in ESo, ebbs and flows.)


But to be equally clear, i am NOT in favor of allowing any "buy scroll to gain inspirations" kind of cash for "experience in skill line thing" for any skill. (but really, its not the "levels of skill" that slows down equip crafting anywhere near as much as the traits.

No you and I are pretty much on the same page about crafting improvements.

On the nfl side note yes those who held records before 16 game seasons are better recognized for their acomplishments then the newer players, but to draw that comparison to eso is not apples to apples. The nfl isn't making it easier to gain rushing titles or records, they are not diluting to pool so to speak. And while you may not feel the sting of ZOS making things easier, I can't say I feel the same.

I was there for the Vr system, cp transition. And the reason I have no problems with that is was junk from the start. I also see the need to have a fresh player base to keep the game alive. I don't believe they need to shorten everything for the sake of bringing in people, who more than likely won't stay. I have watched Zos cave on several fronts to appease the casual base, and some I agree with, others not so much. To me if there is no journey and I can get instant gratification what's the point. I will have played myself out before I ever got started. The game as most mmos is a grind. I can't see a 10 year plan if they make it too easy to "end game".

uhh adding two more games to the season made it easier to gain 1000 yds in a season - you had two more games to do it in.
runners whp previously only made 900yds could not make 1000 yds with the exact same effort per game that failed to get them 1000 before.

But, in fact, the main difference is it is an actual accomplishment in the NFl.

For crafting in ESo, we are literally talking about "running out the clock." trait research is logging in an clicking a few things and then waiting for a calendar/clock to run down. Its not like beating vmsa or vmol which at least have some degree of difficulty.

What you are so literally wrapping your "slap in the face" diminishing your achievement ego around is you have spent more time (offline out of game or online in game) than the other guy.

Now if that works for you, great, but there is no way that a month wait for a trait research promotes more interest in crafting and less interest in crafting is not good for crafting IMO.

Would you be Ok if you got an extra "participation trophy" achievement added when they reduce it - for you and everyone else already with the maxed when the change hits? that way you even get something the new guys cannot have... unless they too grind it out old school.

is this really about the "face slap" or keeping more folks out of crafting?

helediron

STEVIL wrote: »

...snip...
is this really about the "face slap" or keeping more folks out of crafting?

Crafting being slow, and requiring patience and planning ahead is great. You are heading to wrong direction.

STEVIL

helediron wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

...snip...
is this really about the "face slap" or keeping more folks out of crafting?

Crafting being slow, and requiring patience and planning ahead is great. You are heading to wrong direction.

There is no planning ahead required while an 11 day or 22 day timer clicks down that couldn't be done or needed if it were a one day timer.

Nor imo is it patience to go do other things for 22 days - it's just doing other things.

But if patience is such a plus and others want years, let's make patience an actual part of the active play for crafting.

Make crafting an item take the same time it takes to research the traits for the set. So each piece of TBS takes as long to craft as researching the ninth trait did, so what 22 days.

That way everybody praising patience and how it helps crafting for new crafter to show patience can get the warm fuzzy patience brings every time they craft.

Stopnaggin

STEVIL wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

@Tai-Chi
@Stopnaggin

Put simply, i believe that the following would be good for crafting (equip):
1 - reduce trait research to 1 day max per trait or even make it a flat one day = one trait time frame from first trait to last trait (keep the same 3 traits skills max thingy)
2 - Allow trait lessons in craft store to allow you to buy a given trait for a given weapon/piece. possibly charge less for prosperous, charged, training - non-end game traits. heck, even if it excluded the BiS conmtender traits like sharp, precise, nirn and a few others, thats fine too.

None of these would make me feel my crafter's anvil isn't as hard as it used to be or that my crafter's needle isn't as long as it once was.

To the points you raised...

First off, my equip crafters finished their advancement long ago. So i literally have nothing to gain and no axe to grind here on the subject. just like i have characters who made the trek to vr16 the old way and characters who got the promotion when vet level went away and cp=lvl became account wide, i am very aware of the differences between slow and steady and quickie.

Second, while "crafting" has an impact on gameplay in that it allows you to create gear, advancing the speed with which you gain crafting does not. it makes not one point of difference in any fight whether the enemy got his gear by months of crafting research, buying quickie from crown store, or weeks of crafting research (my 1 day trait max) or with instant gratification from guild vendors. The end result is the same, all that is being made different is how long it takes to get to the point and that can vary an awful lot just by available playtime. So, sorry i dont see this as any more a "game impact" vs "convenience" than say horse skills or vampire/werewolf lines. The destination in game remains identical, just the road taken to get there. To specific reference the @sigtric #10, nobody is asking for "if i buy crown crafting its getting me better gear than if i just do crafting the old way" - only the route one takes to get to the exact same impact on gameplay include a crown store option as well as the long road. (or in my case, trait times reduced.)

How you get to a or b is convenience, not impact. What you can do once you get to A or b is impact and nobody is asking for crowing boost there.


Third, my face remained slap free for all my rank 60 horse chars when they started putting horse lessons in the crown store even though i had characters who had "spent the time" or "put in the effort" .
My face also remained slap free when they made the leapfrog vet levels 1-15 to go straight to cp160, even though i had four maybe five who had done the trek to vet16 the old way, "put in the effort" so to speak.
It would remain slap free if they reduce trait time to 1 day max or put "trait learnin'" into crown stores, even though i have full 9 trait crafters maxed etc.
The reason all these are true is that i did all these things for me and for what they allowed my characters to do and that has not changed one bit. For me it isn't any kind of "i can craft TBS and you cannot" sense of superiority thing, just a simple "can i do this or not."

Fourth, I am one of the most vocal proponents for equip crafting needing a serious improvement in the wake of 1T. My posts are numerous and my sig contains a list of changes i think need to be made. What i dont get is the notion that somehow you can link "making crafting quicker or more convenient in crown store or by reducing the trait time to max 1 day to them killing crafting. if anything, making crafting more advancable (get it to maybe not as fast as the consumables but at least not months maybe weeks) will encourage more people to take up crafting, not add nails to the coffins.

Fifth, you missed the point about 1 day vs weeks or month. its not about forgetting. its about getting to be so long it ceases to be of any interest on a daily basis. I literally log in every character every day because of daily deliveries. i literally log-in every character who has horse capacity lessons every day to buy that next inventory slot (or sometimes speed). I literally log-in every character every day who has Db suppliers to get my alchemy stuff. I literally login my writ characters every day ro run writs. (Every day = every day i login at all - obviously some days i cannot login like vacations or hospitals or other commitments.) These things draw me into characters access even if i dont plan to run those that day. Some days i have logged in and done just these. Many other games use the same types of mechanics, daily timers promote logging in to even just click those activities. once they move to weeks or months between access - it ceases to promote any significant increase in access, in activity.

Sixth, its not like those 8th and 9th traits are dealbreakers in power. Sure, TBS requires 9 but Hundings and Julianos are both what six? The bang for buck/time up to six traits is very very very superior to the bang for buck/time for the last three traits. Learn sharpened, precise, nirned, powered, defending and infused and that leaves you with days to weeks each for charged, training and prosperous (is that the ninth?) Does it really make sense to you to spend more time learning trained, prosperous and charged than the other six combined?

Finally to, @Tai-Chi i dont see anything naive about not feeling i have lost something just because someone else gains something similar. This isn't an ego thing for me just a functionality thing and frankly, even with functionality, i recognize in a living game things may change so the "boon" i got one day might get reduced at some later point. (Doesn't mean i wont fight to get it fixed, as i do now for crafting.)

And finally finally to @Stopnaggin we will have to agree to disagree on whether or not in a living breathing game where things change having an achievement you already acquired become acquirable by different roads somehow lessons mine or yours. When the nfl went to 16 game seasons, all those who had achieved 1000 yd rushing in shorter seasons did not suddenly lose the credibility of that achievement. if anything, theirs became MORE SIGNIFICANT, since it was acquired in a shorter time frame. (though one can argue the high value passing mode these days shifts that back some... so as in ESo, ebbs and flows.)


But to be equally clear, i am NOT in favor of allowing any "buy scroll to gain inspirations" kind of cash for "experience in skill line thing" for any skill. (but really, its not the "levels of skill" that slows down equip crafting anywhere near as much as the traits.

No you and I are pretty much on the same page about crafting improvements.

On the nfl side note yes those who held records before 16 game seasons are better recognized for their acomplishments then the newer players, but to draw that comparison to eso is not apples to apples. The nfl isn't making it easier to gain rushing titles or records, they are not diluting to pool so to speak. And while you may not feel the sting of ZOS making things easier, I can't say I feel the same.

I was there for the Vr system, cp transition. And the reason I have no problems with that is was junk from the start. I also see the need to have a fresh player base to keep the game alive. I don't believe they need to shorten everything for the sake of bringing in people, who more than likely won't stay. I have watched Zos cave on several fronts to appease the casual base, and some I agree with, others not so much. To me if there is no journey and I can get instant gratification what's the point. I will have played myself out before I ever got started. The game as most mmos is a grind. I can't see a 10 year plan if they make it too easy to "end game".

uhh adding two more games to the season made it easier to gain 1000 yds in a season - you had two more games to do it in.
runners whp previously only made 900yds could not make 1000 yds with the exact same effort per game that failed to get them 1000 before.

But, in fact, the main difference is it is an actual accomplishment in the NFl.

For crafting in ESo, we are literally talking about "running out the clock." trait research is logging in an clicking a few things and then waiting for a calendar/clock to run down. Its not like beating vmsa or vmol which at least have some degree of difficulty.

What you are so literally wrapping your "slap in the face" diminishing your achievement ego around is you have spent more time (offline out of game or online in game) than the other guy.

Now if that works for you, great, but there is no way that a month wait for a trait research promotes more interest in crafting and less interest in crafting is not good for crafting IMO.

Would you be Ok if you got an extra "participation trophy" achievement added when they reduce it - for you and everyone else already with the maxed when the change hits? that way you even get something the new guys cannot have... unless they too grind it out old school.

is this really about the "face slap" or keeping more folks out of crafting?

Ok so you suggest, on your analogy, lets make every yard gained 5 yards, seems fair right. That way you know the other running backs in the league wouldn't have to work as hard. That way they can all have their participation trophy.

And yeah it should be something certain people are interested in, if you want to craft take the time to do it. It's not for everyone, and the whole make my life easier crowds are the ones yelling the loudest. If the game becomes so easy it will die sooner rather than later. Most people, us non passive aggressive types, will move on to something that offers a challange, then you will have the players that want life easy move on to the next easy game.

Since 1t I have seen more people crying about changes to make the game easier, why? This isn't a Lego game. It's supposed to be an MMO RPG yes? Supposed to put in some kind of effort yes? Nope let's make everything so easy to accommodate the loudest people in the room. Hard to belive I know, but some of us actually enjoy the fact that we put in such effort, no actually stuck it out to finish. While it may not mean anything to you it does to others. But to tell the truth all this want everything easy crowd is getting rather tiresome.

STEVIL

Stopnaggin wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

@Tai-Chi
@Stopnaggin

Put simply, i believe that the following would be good for crafting (equip):
1 - reduce trait research to 1 day max per trait or even make it a flat one day = one trait time frame from first trait to last trait (keep the same 3 traits skills max thingy)
2 - Allow trait lessons in craft store to allow you to buy a given trait for a given weapon/piece. possibly charge less for prosperous, charged, training - non-end game traits. heck, even if it excluded the BiS conmtender traits like sharp, precise, nirn and a few others, thats fine too.

None of these would make me feel my crafter's anvil isn't as hard as it used to be or that my crafter's needle isn't as long as it once was.

To the points you raised...

First off, my equip crafters finished their advancement long ago. So i literally have nothing to gain and no axe to grind here on the subject. just like i have characters who made the trek to vr16 the old way and characters who got the promotion when vet level went away and cp=lvl became account wide, i am very aware of the differences between slow and steady and quickie.

Second, while "crafting" has an impact on gameplay in that it allows you to create gear, advancing the speed with which you gain crafting does not. it makes not one point of difference in any fight whether the enemy got his gear by months of crafting research, buying quickie from crown store, or weeks of crafting research (my 1 day trait max) or with instant gratification from guild vendors. The end result is the same, all that is being made different is how long it takes to get to the point and that can vary an awful lot just by available playtime. So, sorry i dont see this as any more a "game impact" vs "convenience" than say horse skills or vampire/werewolf lines. The destination in game remains identical, just the road taken to get there. To specific reference the @sigtric #10, nobody is asking for "if i buy crown crafting its getting me better gear than if i just do crafting the old way" - only the route one takes to get to the exact same impact on gameplay include a crown store option as well as the long road. (or in my case, trait times reduced.)

How you get to a or b is convenience, not impact. What you can do once you get to A or b is impact and nobody is asking for crowing boost there.


Third, my face remained slap free for all my rank 60 horse chars when they started putting horse lessons in the crown store even though i had characters who had "spent the time" or "put in the effort" .
My face also remained slap free when they made the leapfrog vet levels 1-15 to go straight to cp160, even though i had four maybe five who had done the trek to vet16 the old way, "put in the effort" so to speak.
It would remain slap free if they reduce trait time to 1 day max or put "trait learnin'" into crown stores, even though i have full 9 trait crafters maxed etc.
The reason all these are true is that i did all these things for me and for what they allowed my characters to do and that has not changed one bit. For me it isn't any kind of "i can craft TBS and you cannot" sense of superiority thing, just a simple "can i do this or not."

Fourth, I am one of the most vocal proponents for equip crafting needing a serious improvement in the wake of 1T. My posts are numerous and my sig contains a list of changes i think need to be made. What i dont get is the notion that somehow you can link "making crafting quicker or more convenient in crown store or by reducing the trait time to max 1 day to them killing crafting. if anything, making crafting more advancable (get it to maybe not as fast as the consumables but at least not months maybe weeks) will encourage more people to take up crafting, not add nails to the coffins.

Fifth, you missed the point about 1 day vs weeks or month. its not about forgetting. its about getting to be so long it ceases to be of any interest on a daily basis. I literally log in every character every day because of daily deliveries. i literally log-in every character who has horse capacity lessons every day to buy that next inventory slot (or sometimes speed). I literally log-in every character every day who has Db suppliers to get my alchemy stuff. I literally login my writ characters every day ro run writs. (Every day = every day i login at all - obviously some days i cannot login like vacations or hospitals or other commitments.) These things draw me into characters access even if i dont plan to run those that day. Some days i have logged in and done just these. Many other games use the same types of mechanics, daily timers promote logging in to even just click those activities. once they move to weeks or months between access - it ceases to promote any significant increase in access, in activity.

Sixth, its not like those 8th and 9th traits are dealbreakers in power. Sure, TBS requires 9 but Hundings and Julianos are both what six? The bang for buck/time up to six traits is very very very superior to the bang for buck/time for the last three traits. Learn sharpened, precise, nirned, powered, defending and infused and that leaves you with days to weeks each for charged, training and prosperous (is that the ninth?) Does it really make sense to you to spend more time learning trained, prosperous and charged than the other six combined?

Finally to, @Tai-Chi i dont see anything naive about not feeling i have lost something just because someone else gains something similar. This isn't an ego thing for me just a functionality thing and frankly, even with functionality, i recognize in a living game things may change so the "boon" i got one day might get reduced at some later point. (Doesn't mean i wont fight to get it fixed, as i do now for crafting.)

And finally finally to @Stopnaggin we will have to agree to disagree on whether or not in a living breathing game where things change having an achievement you already acquired become acquirable by different roads somehow lessons mine or yours. When the nfl went to 16 game seasons, all those who had achieved 1000 yd rushing in shorter seasons did not suddenly lose the credibility of that achievement. if anything, theirs became MORE SIGNIFICANT, since it was acquired in a shorter time frame. (though one can argue the high value passing mode these days shifts that back some... so as in ESo, ebbs and flows.)


But to be equally clear, i am NOT in favor of allowing any "buy scroll to gain inspirations" kind of cash for "experience in skill line thing" for any skill. (but really, its not the "levels of skill" that slows down equip crafting anywhere near as much as the traits.

No you and I are pretty much on the same page about crafting improvements.

On the nfl side note yes those who held records before 16 game seasons are better recognized for their acomplishments then the newer players, but to draw that comparison to eso is not apples to apples. The nfl isn't making it easier to gain rushing titles or records, they are not diluting to pool so to speak. And while you may not feel the sting of ZOS making things easier, I can't say I feel the same.

I was there for the Vr system, cp transition. And the reason I have no problems with that is was junk from the start. I also see the need to have a fresh player base to keep the game alive. I don't believe they need to shorten everything for the sake of bringing in people, who more than likely won't stay. I have watched Zos cave on several fronts to appease the casual base, and some I agree with, others not so much. To me if there is no journey and I can get instant gratification what's the point. I will have played myself out before I ever got started. The game as most mmos is a grind. I can't see a 10 year plan if they make it too easy to "end game".

uhh adding two more games to the season made it easier to gain 1000 yds in a season - you had two more games to do it in.
runners whp previously only made 900yds could not make 1000 yds with the exact same effort per game that failed to get them 1000 before.

But, in fact, the main difference is it is an actual accomplishment in the NFl.

For crafting in ESo, we are literally talking about "running out the clock." trait research is logging in an clicking a few things and then waiting for a calendar/clock to run down. Its not like beating vmsa or vmol which at least have some degree of difficulty.

What you are so literally wrapping your "slap in the face" diminishing your achievement ego around is you have spent more time (offline out of game or online in game) than the other guy.

Now if that works for you, great, but there is no way that a month wait for a trait research promotes more interest in crafting and less interest in crafting is not good for crafting IMO.

Would you be Ok if you got an extra "participation trophy" achievement added when they reduce it - for you and everyone else already with the maxed when the change hits? that way you even get something the new guys cannot have... unless they too grind it out old school.

is this really about the "face slap" or keeping more folks out of crafting?

Ok so you suggest, on your analogy, lets make every yard gained 5 yards, seems fair right. That way you know the other running backs in the league wouldn't have to work as hard. That way they can all have their participation trophy.

And yeah it should be something certain people are interested in, if you want to craft take the time to do it. It's not for everyone, and the whole make my life easier crowds are the ones yelling the loudest. If the game becomes so easy it will die sooner rather than later. Most people, us non passive aggressive types, will move on to something that offers a challange, then you will have the players that want life easy move on to the next easy game.

Since 1t I have seen more people crying about changes to make the game easier, why? This isn't a Lego game. It's supposed to be an MMO RPG yes? Supposed to put in some kind of effort yes? Nope let's make everything so easy to accommodate the loudest people in the room. Hard to belive I know, but some of us actually enjoy the fact that we put in such effort, no actually stuck it out to finish. While it may not mean anything to you it does to others. But to tell the truth all this want everything easy crowd is getting rather tiresome.

First, no i did not suggest the nfl make 1 yd = 5 yds. i merely pointed out that the longer season easier to reach 1000 yds per season mark actually made having gotten it the old way MORE prestigious not less.

And, i have to say, this "make it easy" vs "make it hard" logic is utter crap.

This isn't a nerf maelstrom thread or tone down world bosses thread.

hate to tell you this but the only "effort" required to get all traits mastered is living IRL long enough to do it.
Its not "effort". its not "hard" it just has a unique timing factor that is out of proportion to gains and out of proportion to other crafting in the game.

Someone doesn't have to solo VMSA in skivies to get from 8 to 9 traits. Thay have to click and wait 22 days or so while prosperous cooks on their maul. Then repeat it a lot more times.

The difference between that 22 days for prosperous and that original 5 hours for sharpened is that before you go to count prosperous you had 22 days of time to fill doing other stuff. You didn't even have to spend any of that 22 days crafting.

Now, if it was "22 days during which you have to decon another piece of the same type and same trait" than you are talking putting in "extra effort."

When you go to the doctor or DMV and you have to wait for an exceptionally long time way out of proportion to your typical times, do you thank them for giving you such a greater sense of accomplishment when they finally see you?
if they add more staff and advanced scheduling systems and cut wait times down, do you feel slapped in the the face?
Do you feel your driver's lic is suddenly not as good since others now get theirs in half the time?

the key to me is this: if there were a crown path to traits or a change to 1 day trait period, you could still choose to play thru at the old pace. others could choose the faster pace. Everyone could get their own internal preferences met. Since everyone has their own preferences, their own lifestyles and their own demands on time - that seems good to me. more choices fit more people.

But then i dont have any need for "external" influences and having my "preferences" enforced over others.

helediron

STEVIL wrote: »

helediron wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

...snip...
is this really about the "face slap" or keeping more folks out of crafting?

Crafting being slow, and requiring patience and planning ahead is great. You are heading to wrong direction.

There is no planning ahead required while an 11 day or 22 day timer clicks down that couldn't be done or needed if it were a one day timer.

Nor imo is it patience to go do other things for 22 days - it's just doing other things.

But if patience is such a plus and others want years, let's make patience an actual part of the active play for crafting.

Make crafting an item take the same time it takes to research the traits for the set. So each piece of TBS takes as long to craft as researching the ninth trait did, so what 22 days.

That way everybody praising patience and how it helps crafting for new crafter to show patience can get the warm fuzzy patience brings every time they craft.

Making a powerful crafter account as a whole takes easily a year, so this is just a dumb answer.

Kram8ion

Then I'll also be able to buy maelstrom weapons along with an insurance policy to guarantee sharpened at extra cost of course

STEVIL

helediron wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

helediron wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

...snip...
is this really about the "face slap" or keeping more folks out of crafting?

Crafting being slow, and requiring patience and planning ahead is great. You are heading to wrong direction.

There is no planning ahead required while an 11 day or 22 day timer clicks down that couldn't be done or needed if it were a one day timer.

Nor imo is it patience to go do other things for 22 days - it's just doing other things.

But if patience is such a plus and others want years, let's make patience an actual part of the active play for crafting.

Make crafting an item take the same time it takes to research the traits for the set. So each piece of TBS takes as long to craft as researching the ninth trait did, so what 22 days.

That way everybody praising patience and how it helps crafting for new crafter to show patience can get the warm fuzzy patience brings every time they craft.

Making a powerful crafter account as a whole takes easily a year, so this is just a dumb answer.

Your response is indecipherable. Each crafter with maxed skills and traits is as powerful as any other as far as crafting goes. Having that take a month, a year or maybe decades is irrelevant except to those who believe waiting for crafting to develop much longer than other more impactful crafts do make it somehow "more meaningful" in maybe some tantric sort of thing.

This isnt like pvp ot pve trails/arenas where one might have gold armour set bonuses or trained rotations.

But hey, whatever "powerful" means to you that gets your crafter juices flowing, thats between you and your sheets.

STEVIL

Kram8ion wrote: »

Then I'll also be able to buy maelstrom weapons along with an insurance policy to guarantee sharpened at extra cost of course

Its debateable but anything is posdible.


Most likely though thrre will be improvements. There are tons of complaints about maelstrom drop rates and sharpened drop rates and many many many calls to change the RNG to make getting good trait gear quicker.

Now maybe @Stopnaggin and the others here would also feel their own sharpened weapons would get duller if a better loot table were put in place, say removing prosperous and training from cp160 gear drops, making sharpened more likely. Maybe they would see that change as a slap in the face cuz newer players would get to "what they got the slower hard way"?

Hard to say.

But i bet that most players and even most high end players who already " got theirs" would not oppose a change to the way weapobs drop which makes it easier for others to get them or see it as a slap in the face if faster acquisition mechsnics were put in place. Just because they endured the miles of bad road that high end sucky trait tables are doesnt mean they want others to have to endure the same.

Obviously doesnt rule it out tho.

Maybe @Stopnaggin would be ok with drops for maelstroms or maybe any set being timed boxes.

Open them immediately, get same current sucky loot tables.
But for every month you sit on them in crate form the odds of getting a token instead of a random drop goes up. So after being as patient as "a powerful crafter" aka one year you have say 100% to get a token for use. One token lets you choose one aspect of the drop - set, weight, wpn, trait, color.

This brings the achievement of patience into the loot for drops.
Run maelstrom six times, hold the crates for a year and get two maelstrom sharp daggers.

Maybe.

jlboozer

?

White wabbit

I would feel cheated by Zos if they did