Should two-handed weapons count as two set pieces?

Calboy

Yes

Due to the current meta and the strength and options now of running 5/5/2, all 2h weapons should be 2 slots. It just doesn't make sense to limit players to running an incomplete 5 piece set with no 4 piece set options.

However if zos implements 4 piece sets then keep it as it is now. This would open up even more theory crafting ideas. Players could choose between 5/5/2, 5/4/2, 5/5/1, 5/3/4 etc.

The fact I have to run 5/4/2 or 5/5/1 with incomplete sets drives my ocd through the roof.

Kutsuu

No

Calboy wrote: »

Due to the current meta and the strength and options now of running 5/5/2, all 2h weapons should be 2 slots. It just doesn't make sense to limit players to running an incomplete 5 piece set with no 4 piece set options.

However if zos implements 4 piece sets then keep it as it is now. This would open up even more theory crafting ideas. Players could choose between 5/5/2, 5/4/2, 5/5/1, 5/3/4 etc.

The fact I have to run 5/4/2 or 5/5/1 with incomplete sets drives my ocd through the roof.

5/3(agility/willpower/endurance)/2(monster)/1(maelstrom/master) Is viable and very common though. Not saying your idea is terrible, just pointing out that you aren't limited to 5/5/1 or 5/4/2.

I'd love to see more 3-piece and 1-piece set options though. I imagine something like highly unique named items "The Hauberk of Something" that have a neat 1-piece set bonus outside of the "usual" things.

Asteroth

Yes

pizzaow wrote: »

I like the idea of having to farm for a "weapon grip" or another physical piece that could count as a 5-piece... Similar to the comment from @Asteroth. We already have gauntlets, so a wrist piece is a bit redundant. If there was a "staff grip" (all staves) and a "weapon grip" (2H & bow) it would make for some fun combinations.

@pizzaow maybe weapon chains.. i once saw a pair of gauntlets with a chain on the right hand and when i looked it up it was to put on your handle so you don't drop your sword, that's kinda what i'm thinking, is a chain, or i guess grip

TheRopemaker

I would argue that 2 handed weapon line passives should naturaly be stronger than dual wield and S&B then the extra set piece would bring the duel wield and s&b in line, or a tiny bit stronger due to more effort required in aquireing

Merlin13KAGL

Yes

Double the mat cost, double the upgrade mat cost, leave the single enchant (?), count 2 slot weapon as 2 items in a set!

or

Only allow the first item in slot to count towards set bonuses - thus leveling the playing field regarding multiple sets, and watch all the dual wielder/S&B'ers lose their mind by having to follow their own argument.

cpuScientist

Yes

Lieblingsjunge wrote: »

No. It's a part of theory-crafting & structure. You can't have one piece count as two pieces, it wouldn't make sense. + It would make it too easy(!!) to make super-strong builds, where e.g. a Bow/2h user won't sacrifice anything, for going with bow & 2h.

They sacrifice having to use a two hander lol. Dual wield skills rip them, best AoE and spammable great dot and utility execute passives and a fantastic Ultimate. Two hander has no good dot or aoe and a weak slow spammable. It's just mehhhhh.

What would be boosted are the magicka classes, and that would have to be looked at, as being able to get 2 5 pieces and a monster set on a DK or Sorc could be a bit much, but mehhhhh they could do some boosting of steam to help out with that....

acw37162

No

Not without a serious re-adjustment.

Even then I would just prefer they add quivers, scabbards, and orbs or hand guards for staves and re-balance.

Spaghettiknight

Yes

I voted yes. It would be one thing if two-handed weapons were a lot more powerful, but they're not. Some two-handed skills are, but other that that it's outclassed since dual wielding gives you about 300 more spell and weapon damage.

acw37162 wrote: »

Not without a serious re-adjustment.

Even then I would just prefer they add quivers, scabbards, and orbs or hand guards for staves and re-balance.

I wouldn't mind seeing this assuming it's not too hard to get the scabbard/whatever. If it's just as hard to make/get it then it should add enough damage to make it as good as dual wielding. 2h power attacks (and I guess skills like wrecking blow) may hit harder, but they're a lot slower. In the time it would take to stealth and use wrecking blow to hit super hard somebody dual wielding could spam rapid strikes and do a lot of damage too.

Birdovic

No

Only staves and bow.

Lemonzy

Yes

Yeah, i think it should.

thankyourat

cpuScientist wrote: »

Lieblingsjunge wrote: »

No. It's a part of theory-crafting & structure. You can't have one piece count as two pieces, it wouldn't make sense. + It would make it too easy(!!) to make super-strong builds, where e.g. a Bow/2h user won't sacrifice anything, for going with bow & 2h.

They sacrifice having to use a two hander lol. Dual wield skills rip them, best AoE and spammable great dot and utility execute passives and a fantastic Ultimate. Two hander has no good dot or aoe and a weak slow spammable. It's just mehhhhh.

What would be boosted are the magicka classes, and that would have to be looked at, as being able to get 2 5 pieces and a monster set on a DK or Sorc could be a bit much, but mehhhhh they could do some boosting of steam to help out with that....

This game has two parts PvP and PvE. 2hand is far better than dual wield in PvP because it has a gap closer, burst damage, a execute, and a burst heal. It's the best weapon skill line for open world PvP.

WalksonGraves

Yes

This game is almost entirely based on 5 pc set bonuses, 2h is massively handicapped.

itsfatbass

Yes

Lieblingsjunge wrote: »

No. It's a part of theory-crafting & structure. You can't have one piece count as two pieces, it wouldn't make sense. + It would make it too easy(!!) to make super-strong builds, where e.g. a Bow/2h user won't sacrifice anything, for going with bow & 2h.

Based on this logic the trait should be half, as we already get the benefit of double on that when accounting for what a single weapon is. There's no reason it shouldnt also account for 2 parts of the weapon set no matter what.

Panda_iMunch

Yes

The power of running two 5-piece sets is too great atm so I think allowing 2h weapons two piece bounses would be able to counter the massive advantage DW and shield users get. It would also help making those 2h weapons a little more useful as they would lose so much power.

STEVIL

No

WalksonGraves wrote: »

This game is almost entirely based on 5 pc set bonuses, 2h is massively handicapped.

Nope.

At high end gaming here its based more off mael/dsa weapons and guilds of 5pc, 3pcjewel, 2pc mon and then weapons already cinfigured for 2h v 1h setups.

Before that level of play, there are a number of sets like clever alchemists which work great with 2h keepg all the inherent benefits plus the set bonuses and ines which work grest with dw/sb, aka diverdity.

But it really does depend on content, the one being run and the ones previously run

cschwingeb14_ESO

Yes

5-5-2 sets is such an OP setup, and it's not available to 2h weapons. This throws balance off, because classes that actually have usable class attacks have the advantage of using DW and 5-5-2

STEVIL

No

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

5-5-2 sets is such an OP setup, and it's not available to 2h weapons. This throws balance off, because classes that actually have usable class attacks have the advantage of using DW and 5-5-2

Do you really believe a 552 is op compared to a 532+maelwpns or 55+maelwpns?

LrdRahvin

I didn't vote because there was no option for: lolwut.

WalksonGraves

Yes

STEVIL wrote: »

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

5-5-2 sets is such an OP setup, and it's not available to 2h weapons. This throws balance off, because classes that actually have usable class attacks have the advantage of using DW and 5-5-2

Do you really believe a 552 is op compared to a 532+maelwpns or 55+maelwpns?

Depending on the weapon totally. The tank sword for instance is trash.

SodanTok

Yes

STEVIL wrote: »

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

5-5-2 sets is such an OP setup, and it's not available to 2h weapons. This throws balance off, because classes that actually have usable class attacks have the advantage of using DW and 5-5-2

Do you really believe a 552 is op compared to a 532+maelwpns or 55+maelwpns?

Do you really believe you can have fruitful discussion about this given that mael2H isnt pve weapon and maelBow is backbar ench. (wont talk about maelstaves since I dont know exactly how they work) while some 1H mael weapons are almost the only reason stamina is even relevant DPS in the top tier content?

STEVIL

No

So the counter to top tier builds are abt MAelstrom/masters builds not weapon sets is that there might be folks running suck maelstroms?

Hilarious.

More diversity thru more sameness is a failed argument.
Needed for dps is failed argument?

What's left? Just want one skill line best in pvp and pve for dps and utility for, you know, diversity?

cschwingeb14_ESO

Yes

STEVIL wrote: »

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

5-5-2 sets is such an OP setup, and it's not available to 2h weapons. This throws balance off, because classes that actually have usable class attacks have the advantage of using DW and 5-5-2

Do you really believe a 552 is op compared to a 532+maelwpns or 55+maelwpns?

Of course, outside of stam PvE DPS, many 5-piece bonuses and monster bonus are much more powerful than maelstrom. I'm forced to run 532+vMA staves for PvP. It's much less ideal that 552 would be

And people are going through some ridiculous gear setups (ie, lich/moondancer) back bar, another set front bar, to get those bonuses.

Its not just about vMA daggers and DPS. Healers, tanks, PvP setups are more the issue here

Rastafariel

No

STEVIL wrote: »

1 - Farming just one greatsword with sharpened trait and we are set vs farming two sharpened swords... half the farming time should gain all the benefits? i think not.

2 - Spending 8 gold tempers on one gold sharp greatsword vs spending 16 gold tempers on two gold sharpened swords... half the expense should gain all the benefits? i think not.

3 - 2H weapon users CAN benefit from a 5-5-2 build just fine, if they choose sets where there is a cooldown on one of the 5pc bonuses. For example, a clever alchemist build or a lich build where you have 15s or more run time on the 5pc bonus serves 2h/bow/stave builds just as good as they serve DW builds even with the savings from 1 and 2 above. So its really a case where some sets are better for DW users and such but there are builds where the 2h/bow/staves get all the same benefits plus their already built-in inherent benefits. In other words, differences in results based on choices vs more sameness to let the same sets work the same regardless of choices.

4 - lets face it, the 5-5-2 isnt really the uber-structure esp at end game that its being portrayed as a great loss to have "lost" for some sets. Many of the top tier builds are not 5-5-2 with monster helms but rather more like 5-3j-2mon-1/2Mael with 1-2 maelstrom wpns, a single 5pc, 3 jewels and 2 monsters, right? once maelstrom weapons factor into the mix the "5-5-2 set count" thing goes mostly out the window though we do run into the OP nature of DW maelstrom daggers. Fix maelDW and then see what you have.

5 - There are other ways to address the diversity issues than making the weapons less distinctive. As part of a crafting proposal to help add unique flavor back to crafting of equipment, i propose allowing crafted sets to drop one of the 2-3-4pc bonuses producing 4pc sets (with the former 5th piece bonus kicking in at 4pc.) that addresses some of the "count" concerns and adds a lot of new builds without making weapons less distinct and weapons choices less meaningful.

6 - Any change this broad needs to be part of a serious overall package of rebalancing the weapons, likely resulting in changing/lowering some of the 2h/bow/staff skills to accomodate or offset any actual gain in power in their use - since playtests and performance analysis until now has factored in the set count issues automatically.

7 - More sameness doesn't lead to more diversity. More meaningful and useful options does lead to more diversity.

QFT.

I could not have said it better.

STEVIL

No

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

5-5-2 sets is such an OP setup, and it's not available to 2h weapons. This throws balance off, because classes that actually have usable class attacks have the advantage of using DW and 5-5-2

Do you really believe a 552 is op compared to a 532+maelwpns or 55+maelwpns?

Of course, outside of stam PvE DPS, many 5-piece bonuses and monster bonus are much more powerful than maelstrom. I'm forced to run 532+vMA staves for PvP. It's much less ideal that 552 would be

And people are going through some ridiculous gear setups (ie, lich/moondancer) back bar, another set front bar, to get those bonuses.

Its not just about vMA daggers and DPS. Healers, tanks, PvP setups are more the issue here

re THE BOLD

Thanks for highlighting with your bold and what follows what i have already said... some builds with powerufl bonuses and cooldowns work just fine with 2h weapons. slot something like lich (230s run 1 min mtwn proc) or moondancer (30s run) and even clever alchemist is one mentioned frequently (15s run, start on potions) on backbar and another on front to get the two-handed benefits (staff/bow/etc) and both bonuses and monsters bonuses. Basically its like a 552 just with 2h weapons benefits added in.

Though i wouldn't call it ridiculous. its just efficient and, you know, a different build than one would normally run for DW as we turn back to that actual diversity thing.

But you may be the first person i know unhappy with their maelstrom staves - unless you have lousy traits - everybody hates those.

idk

No

WalksonGraves wrote: »

This game is almost entirely based on 5 pc set bonuses, 2h is massively handicapped.

I've seen staff buillds using 2 - 5 PC and a monster set. Creatively geared and pulling good numbers in vet trials.

delarb14_ESO

Yes

I would like to try a ice staff tank warden but having 2nd handed staves count as only 1 item for item sets makes this not practical. I would like to see 2hd weapons count as two items for set count purposes.

ZOS_Bill

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