An idea to perhaps deal with one of the worst affects of the crates

Waffennacht

The crown crates, imo, are a way for eso + have something to spend those crowns on.

I was a member for a bit, used the crowns to get dlcs then unsubbed.

I already have what I want that's available (waiting for that elk...) if I had been or become a member (maxed CP, traits researched, dlcs owned, mounts and pets bought) I would have many crowns and feel stupid for paying for my sub,

This way, every month, you can open some crates.

Nyx2

DPShiro wrote: »

Sure implement this feature for people who don't have any self control or are mentally unable.
But this would cost a lot of money, and I sure don't want money spent developing new content to pay for this, those people have to pay for it themselves, whatever he cost.

Or just you know, get some professional help, learn to take responsibility for your own actions, grow up and learn 2 adult.
This game has a 18 year rating anyway.

You might want to learn a thing or two about psychology before spouting such utter nonsense. It's embarrassing that you even pride yourself with being an adult while being this ignorant.

geonsocal

howdy @SantieClaws ...nothing insightful or clever to add to this thread...only that I really appreciate you and this thread...

i think this really demonstrates why you are so special to us here on the forums - i hope someone with a little juice in Zos land takes the time to consider this thread and hopefully implement such a system...

nimander99

PAWS

Tandor

I can see the genuine intent behind the suggestion, but the impracticality issues are enormous.

If the crate lock is initiated by the account holder, then it can easily be reversed. While ZOS might agree to lock the crates on that account, they would be powerless to reject the account holder's instruction to unlock it.

If it's handled by someone other than the account holder then the account holder can (a) sue ZOS for abusing their position of trust in relation to that person's account, and (b) give direct instructions to ZOS to reverse it. While it's certainly possible that on an individual case basis ZOS would respond favourably to a request from someone with documented power of attorney over an account holder, that is going to be an exceptionally rare occurrence and it is never going to be covered by a published policy.

If it were made possible through an addon, the account holder could simply disable the addon.

While I can sympathise with some of the arguments against these crates, and have no particular interest in them myself, I do think some of the "moral high ground" arguments are way over the top, as are the comparisons with other games as if they are precedents set in stone for all games, and ZOS have a pretty good record so far as implementing the consequences of the change in business model are concerned.

Again, while I sympathise with those who have problems with gambling addiction, I'm not sure it's for a game developer to provide special protection for those few players any more than it is for a bar owner to provide special protection for those few customers with alcohol addiction problems. Moreover, what do those with such gambling issues do when passing a store selling lottery tickets, and what do those with alcohol dependency issues do when passing a bar? I recognise the genuine nature of their addiction, but I'm not convinced that there's an easy or effective way of protecting such players in a computer game other than by the total absence of any gambling element which I suspect is what the critics of the crates are really after as opposed to its refinement to reflect the need to protect the few with serious issues and keep them in the game.

Those totally opposed to the principle of the crates can at least take comfort from the fact that they are purely optional and contain no items of significant consequence while having a base value that at least covers their cost unlike 99.99% of other gambling options. Whether a player wants the basic items that cover that cost is, of course, something most will be able to reflect in their decision whether or not to purchase any. For many, of course, the missing element in the forum discussions about the rights and wrongs of these crates is the "fun factor" - people buy such things knowing they're not certain to get anything especially worthwhile, but there's entertainment to be had in opening them and finding out. Many won't even spend any money on them, if I for example am ever tempted to buy a few it will be with the Crowns accumulated from my subscription. The few that have a serious problem with any such systems have my sympathy, but I'm really not convinced that there is a feasible way for that to be addressed through control of their accounts - and I say "accounts" in plural because even if someone does have their account locked so far as crates are concerned, there may well be no practical way of preventing them from opening another account. If an addict is determined, a way of feeding the addiction will always be found.

Wreuntzylla

.

Krileon wrote: »

BlanketFort wrote: »

Krileon wrote: »

BlanketFort wrote: »

Let's all take a moment and grow a heart for a second. Those who advise to "learn 2 adult", why be so callous?
Perhaps those who have issues with gambling are already seeking help, but having this in-game is a trigger for them. Are we really just going to be so cold towards them and simply say "well, it's here now. So, learn 2 adult or stop playing." It is not their fault that gambling boxes made its way to ESO.

On another note, quitting ESO would be the only way to completely ignore the allure the crates bring. But is it fair to them? Is it fair for them to have to quit a game they have invested time, and money, into because of the existence of gambling crates?

I think it would be great if ZOS could add this, as a show of goodwill. And no, linking it to steam is not enough, because console.

Because being an adult is about making responsible choices. If the game is a trigger then stop playing the game. To avoid a lot of these issues they should stick to single player games where there is nothing to fuel an unhealthy addiction. An MMO is profit driven. An MMO is not here to be anyone's therapist. ZOS adding this is an admission of guilt that it's an unhealthy habit and promotes gambling addiction. They will never do it.

Calling responsible adults heartless is a bit bonkers isn't it? Hundreds of thousands of players are capable of being financially responsible. Those that aren't are not adults, because you can't live a stable adult life without financial responsibility. I bought 15 crates. I wanted the apex wolf. I didn't get it. So I didn't buy more. I'll consider buying more only when crowns go back on sale AND I've the money in my entertainment budget (yes, I responsibly set aside some disposable income FOR MY HOBBY).

This culture of hand holding needs to end. I'm sick of people feeling that everyone else should be responsible for their own poor choices.

We are talking about serious gambling addiction, yes?
I have absolutely no qualms over others spending as much as they want, nor did I say that responsible adults are heartless. This thread simply made me think of those who DO have serious gambling problems and how it affects them in-game. And it is not as simple as a lack of financial control, either.
I am not even advocating the removal of crown crates, in case this was the message you understood.

All I'm saying is, is that's it's quite annoying to have to be the person who now has decided to quit the game because of the inclusion of gambling crates. Kindly also understand that the game is their hobby as much as it is yours. To have to abandon that is quite tough (even more so if they are really invested in it), and especially for the sake of being financially responsible. It's like a slap in the face for dealing with the addiction.

Must be tough being a gamer who prioritises MMO genres, playing on a console, with a gambling addiction they are trying to take control over, to even pursue their hobby. I get that ZOS is probably never taking the crates down, I get that this is the trend in MMOs now, but does it have to be? Are we just really going to accept it all because we are not negatively affected by it? I am aware ZOS might not even take this thread seriously, but at least it was said.

By the by, how does a toggle for those who want/need it, affect you? It doesn't. You still get to purchase as many crowns as you want

I honestly don't care and nor should ZOS care about catering to people with serious gambling addictions. We're going full circle to hand-holding and coddling culture. Those people need to SEEK PROFESSIONAL HELP. Expecting the world to shape around their disorder is asinine. If ONE game is an enabler for their HOBBY then they should stop playing that ONE game until they have their addiction under control.

Yes, it does affect me. Why? Because as I've already explained from a business standpoint ZOS would be admitting a feature they implemented poses an addiction problem. It gives legal precedent. With legal precedent there is grounds for suit and if there's grounds for suit it's possible for ZOS to come under public fire (whether they win or lose a law suit), which results in resources directed away from the game I deeply enjoy. It also means crown crates potentially being removed losing a huge financial source for ZOS resulting in even slower development (potentially). It's like you don't understand that a business admitting their commercial feature is addictive and shouldn't be used or should be used with little use is bad for business. "If they knew it caused addictive tendencies and they admit to it then why do they still sell them?" would be all over the front page of these forums if that was the case. If they add parental controls then that means the 18+ age restriction as been lifted. So if they add parental controls then they need to make the game G, PG-13, or etc.. rated and if they do that then the content has to meet that rating. So yes, it affects me.

Some may scream "why do apps do it!" or "why do other things have parental control!". Well lets see. The apps typically don't; the device does; your phone has parental controls, not the app. Steam for example has parental controls, because it's a platform for products of all ages. Your TV has parental controls, because it's a delivery for a wide range of content. ESO is a singular game. A single product. Putting parental locks on a game restricted to adults (if you're under 18 and get caught.. you're banned) would be absurd.

Totally ridiculous.

An admission is not necessary for a finding of fact. Typically silence is an avoidance of bad press.

In the U.S., gambling legislation is largely left to the states.

In most states lock boxes would be considered gambling.

Not all gambling is illegal and ESO lockboxes are most likely legal. A review of the ToS related to the crown store is all you need to understand the current issues thought to be at play.

States that permit gambling typically have "self-exclusion" requirements imposed on casinos.

https://oag.ca.gov/gambling/exclusion_self

Gambling addiction is not a choice and can be manipulated by chemistry. Studies have revealed that over half of gambling revenue comes from addicts, and about 2-4% of the population meet the definition. Similarly, the majority of cash shop revenue typically comes from less than 1% of players.

California estimates there are 1.5 million compulsive gamblers within its borders. Compulsive gambling is so destructive that CA offers no-cost outpatient treatment and free residential treatment for addicts.

Krileon

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

.

Krileon wrote: »

BlanketFort wrote: »

Krileon wrote: »

BlanketFort wrote: »

Let's all take a moment and grow a heart for a second. Those who advise to "learn 2 adult", why be so callous?
Perhaps those who have issues with gambling are already seeking help, but having this in-game is a trigger for them. Are we really just going to be so cold towards them and simply say "well, it's here now. So, learn 2 adult or stop playing." It is not their fault that gambling boxes made its way to ESO.

On another note, quitting ESO would be the only way to completely ignore the allure the crates bring. But is it fair to them? Is it fair for them to have to quit a game they have invested time, and money, into because of the existence of gambling crates?

I think it would be great if ZOS could add this, as a show of goodwill. And no, linking it to steam is not enough, because console.

Because being an adult is about making responsible choices. If the game is a trigger then stop playing the game. To avoid a lot of these issues they should stick to single player games where there is nothing to fuel an unhealthy addiction. An MMO is profit driven. An MMO is not here to be anyone's therapist. ZOS adding this is an admission of guilt that it's an unhealthy habit and promotes gambling addiction. They will never do it.

Calling responsible adults heartless is a bit bonkers isn't it? Hundreds of thousands of players are capable of being financially responsible. Those that aren't are not adults, because you can't live a stable adult life without financial responsibility. I bought 15 crates. I wanted the apex wolf. I didn't get it. So I didn't buy more. I'll consider buying more only when crowns go back on sale AND I've the money in my entertainment budget (yes, I responsibly set aside some disposable income FOR MY HOBBY).

This culture of hand holding needs to end. I'm sick of people feeling that everyone else should be responsible for their own poor choices.

We are talking about serious gambling addiction, yes?
I have absolutely no qualms over others spending as much as they want, nor did I say that responsible adults are heartless. This thread simply made me think of those who DO have serious gambling problems and how it affects them in-game. And it is not as simple as a lack of financial control, either.
I am not even advocating the removal of crown crates, in case this was the message you understood.

All I'm saying is, is that's it's quite annoying to have to be the person who now has decided to quit the game because of the inclusion of gambling crates. Kindly also understand that the game is their hobby as much as it is yours. To have to abandon that is quite tough (even more so if they are really invested in it), and especially for the sake of being financially responsible. It's like a slap in the face for dealing with the addiction.

Must be tough being a gamer who prioritises MMO genres, playing on a console, with a gambling addiction they are trying to take control over, to even pursue their hobby. I get that ZOS is probably never taking the crates down, I get that this is the trend in MMOs now, but does it have to be? Are we just really going to accept it all because we are not negatively affected by it? I am aware ZOS might not even take this thread seriously, but at least it was said.

By the by, how does a toggle for those who want/need it, affect you? It doesn't. You still get to purchase as many crowns as you want

I honestly don't care and nor should ZOS care about catering to people with serious gambling addictions. We're going full circle to hand-holding and coddling culture. Those people need to SEEK PROFESSIONAL HELP. Expecting the world to shape around their disorder is asinine. If ONE game is an enabler for their HOBBY then they should stop playing that ONE game until they have their addiction under control.

Yes, it does affect me. Why? Because as I've already explained from a business standpoint ZOS would be admitting a feature they implemented poses an addiction problem. It gives legal precedent. With legal precedent there is grounds for suit and if there's grounds for suit it's possible for ZOS to come under public fire (whether they win or lose a law suit), which results in resources directed away from the game I deeply enjoy. It also means crown crates potentially being removed losing a huge financial source for ZOS resulting in even slower development (potentially). It's like you don't understand that a business admitting their commercial feature is addictive and shouldn't be used or should be used with little use is bad for business. "If they knew it caused addictive tendencies and they admit to it then why do they still sell them?" would be all over the front page of these forums if that was the case. If they add parental controls then that means the 18+ age restriction as been lifted. So if they add parental controls then they need to make the game G, PG-13, or etc.. rated and if they do that then the content has to meet that rating. So yes, it affects me.

Some may scream "why do apps do it!" or "why do other things have parental control!". Well lets see. The apps typically don't; the device does; your phone has parental controls, not the app. Steam for example has parental controls, because it's a platform for products of all ages. Your TV has parental controls, because it's a delivery for a wide range of content. ESO is a singular game. A single product. Putting parental locks on a game restricted to adults (if you're under 18 and get caught.. you're banned) would be absurd.

Totally ridiculous.

An admission is not necessary for a finding of fact. Typically silence is an avoidance of bad press.

In the U.S., gambling legislation is largely left to the states.

In most states lock boxes would be considered gambling.

Not all gambling is illegal and ESO lockboxes are most likely legal. A review of the ToS related to the crown store is all you need to understand the current issues thought to be at play.

States that permit gambling typically have "self-exclusion" requirements imposed on casinos.

https://oag.ca.gov/gambling/exclusion_self

Gambling addiction is not a choice and can be manipulated by chemistry. Studies have revealed that over half of gambling revenue comes from addicts, and about 2-4% of the population meet the definition. Similarly, the majority of cash shop revenue typically comes from less than 1% of players.

California estimates there are 1.5 million compulsive gamblers within its borders. Compulsive gambling is so destructive that CA offers no-cost outpatient treatment and free residential treatment for addicts.

With silence they most likely will not be challenged on this. By openly admitting to it they risk being challenged. So yes, it sets legal precedence in the sense that it opens them up to more public eye and possibly gambling regulation enforcement. In short it brings larger attention to it than otherwise would have. If I was ZOS I'd keep my mouth shut on this topic as well. The more game developers that speak open about it and admit it's gambling the more likely they are to get hit by regulation, which I imagine at some point just might happen. Speaking personally I frankly don't care either way.

Until lock boxes have been formally ruled as gambling by a court of law and enforced on a state level no one gives a flying toot about self exclusion or any other gambling laws. There is no "the house always wins" with the crown crates as you always get something of value (some may not see a unique costume no longer available of value, but it is). Gambling in its most simple form is just RNG; welcome to every RPG ever.

On a side note should we add gambling regulation to Pokemon cards? To the quarter machines with random toys? Those too are technically gambling according to the legal definition. You're exchanging money for a chance at something. That's gambling. You see how ridiculous this is getting?

Oh and you're not trading money for crown crates. You're trading money for crowns and crowns for crown crates. This is a big part of how a lot of RNG boxes avoid regulation. The value you gain from your money has already been given (crowns) and what you do with the crowns is independent of the law (unregulated fictional currency).

Recremen

Dazza1968 wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Krileon wrote: »

SantieClaws wrote: »

It is to the longer term benefit of ZOS to retain customers. Those who feel they must leave because of the crates were still spending in the store yes and some were ESO Plus subscribers. They were happy to be in Tamriel before the cratemeld.

A small programming change for a greater benefit this one she thinks.

Good business sense actually. A customer kept is one more coin in the pocket.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

I wager the amount of money leaving is but a minor fraction of the money now coming in. I'm sure ZOS has researched this in GREAT detail as any business would. The UI can be modified through addons so maybe that'll be where you'll find a solution that doesn't directly involve ZOS.

An add-on that would allow one user account to have a feature locked by SOMEONE ELSE'S user account ????
I very, very highly doubt that.
I even doubt that this is doable by ZOS without risking many, many abuses.

Actually there is an addon for this, its called ...........self control.

Wait until the health community hears about this amazing new product called Self Control! Man, all our problems are going to be solved overnight by this breakthrough methodology! I'm personally stoked.

Kodrac

Dazza1968 wrote: »

Actually there is an addon for this, its called ...........self control.

You must be fun at parties.

Riga_Mortis

Kodrac wrote: »

Dazza1968 wrote: »

Actually there is an addon for this, its called ...........self control.

You must be fun at parties.

You bet I am.

Wreuntzylla

Krileon wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

.

Krileon wrote: »

BlanketFort wrote: »

Krileon wrote: »

BlanketFort wrote: »

Let's all take a moment and grow a heart for a second. Those who advise to "learn 2 adult", why be so callous?
Perhaps those who have issues with gambling are already seeking help, but having this in-game is a trigger for them. Are we really just going to be so cold towards them and simply say "well, it's here now. So, learn 2 adult or stop playing." It is not their fault that gambling boxes made its way to ESO.

On another note, quitting ESO would be the only way to completely ignore the allure the crates bring. But is it fair to them? Is it fair for them to have to quit a game they have invested time, and money, into because of the existence of gambling crates?

I think it would be great if ZOS could add this, as a show of goodwill. And no, linking it to steam is not enough, because console.

Because being an adult is about making responsible choices. If the game is a trigger then stop playing the game. To avoid a lot of these issues they should stick to single player games where there is nothing to fuel an unhealthy addiction. An MMO is profit driven. An MMO is not here to be anyone's therapist. ZOS adding this is an admission of guilt that it's an unhealthy habit and promotes gambling addiction. They will never do it.

Calling responsible adults heartless is a bit bonkers isn't it? Hundreds of thousands of players are capable of being financially responsible. Those that aren't are not adults, because you can't live a stable adult life without financial responsibility. I bought 15 crates. I wanted the apex wolf. I didn't get it. So I didn't buy more. I'll consider buying more only when crowns go back on sale AND I've the money in my entertainment budget (yes, I responsibly set aside some disposable income FOR MY HOBBY).

This culture of hand holding needs to end. I'm sick of people feeling that everyone else should be responsible for their own poor choices.

We are talking about serious gambling addiction, yes?
I have absolutely no qualms over others spending as much as they want, nor did I say that responsible adults are heartless. This thread simply made me think of those who DO have serious gambling problems and how it affects them in-game. And it is not as simple as a lack of financial control, either.
I am not even advocating the removal of crown crates, in case this was the message you understood.

All I'm saying is, is that's it's quite annoying to have to be the person who now has decided to quit the game because of the inclusion of gambling crates. Kindly also understand that the game is their hobby as much as it is yours. To have to abandon that is quite tough (even more so if they are really invested in it), and especially for the sake of being financially responsible. It's like a slap in the face for dealing with the addiction.

Must be tough being a gamer who prioritises MMO genres, playing on a console, with a gambling addiction they are trying to take control over, to even pursue their hobby. I get that ZOS is probably never taking the crates down, I get that this is the trend in MMOs now, but does it have to be? Are we just really going to accept it all because we are not negatively affected by it? I am aware ZOS might not even take this thread seriously, but at least it was said.

By the by, how does a toggle for those who want/need it, affect you? It doesn't. You still get to purchase as many crowns as you want

I honestly don't care and nor should ZOS care about catering to people with serious gambling addictions. We're going full circle to hand-holding and coddling culture. Those people need to SEEK PROFESSIONAL HELP. Expecting the world to shape around their disorder is asinine. If ONE game is an enabler for their HOBBY then they should stop playing that ONE game until they have their addiction under control.

Yes, it does affect me. Why? Because as I've already explained from a business standpoint ZOS would be admitting a feature they implemented poses an addiction problem. It gives legal precedent. With legal precedent there is grounds for suit and if there's grounds for suit it's possible for ZOS to come under public fire (whether they win or lose a law suit), which results in resources directed away from the game I deeply enjoy. It also means crown crates potentially being removed losing a huge financial source for ZOS resulting in even slower development (potentially). It's like you don't understand that a business admitting their commercial feature is addictive and shouldn't be used or should be used with little use is bad for business. "If they knew it caused addictive tendencies and they admit to it then why do they still sell them?" would be all over the front page of these forums if that was the case. If they add parental controls then that means the 18+ age restriction as been lifted. So if they add parental controls then they need to make the game G, PG-13, or etc.. rated and if they do that then the content has to meet that rating. So yes, it affects me.

Some may scream "why do apps do it!" or "why do other things have parental control!". Well lets see. The apps typically don't; the device does; your phone has parental controls, not the app. Steam for example has parental controls, because it's a platform for products of all ages. Your TV has parental controls, because it's a delivery for a wide range of content. ESO is a singular game. A single product. Putting parental locks on a game restricted to adults (if you're under 18 and get caught.. you're banned) would be absurd.

Totally ridiculous.

An admission is not necessary for a finding of fact. Typically silence is an avoidance of bad press.

In the U.S., gambling legislation is largely left to the states.

In most states lock boxes would be considered gambling.

Not all gambling is illegal and ESO lockboxes are most likely legal. A review of the ToS related to the crown store is all you need to understand the current issues thought to be at play.

States that permit gambling typically have "self-exclusion" requirements imposed on casinos.

https://oag.ca.gov/gambling/exclusion_self

Gambling addiction is not a choice and can be manipulated by chemistry. Studies have revealed that over half of gambling revenue comes from addicts, and about 2-4% of the population meet the definition. Similarly, the majority of cash shop revenue typically comes from less than 1% of players.

California estimates there are 1.5 million compulsive gamblers within its borders. Compulsive gambling is so destructive that CA offers no-cost outpatient treatment and free residential treatment for addicts.

With silence they most likely will not be challenged on this. By openly admitting to it they risk being challenged. So yes, it sets legal precedence in the sense that it opens them up to more public eye and possibly gambling regulation enforcement. In short it brings larger attention to it than otherwise would have. If I was ZOS I'd keep my mouth shut on this topic as well. The more game developers that speak open about it and admit it's gambling the more likely they are to get hit by regulation, which I imagine at some point just might happen. Speaking personally I frankly don't care either way.

Until lock boxes have been formally ruled as gambling by a court of law and enforced on a state level no one gives a flying toot about self exclusion or any other gambling laws. There is no "the house always wins" with the crown crates as you always get something of value (some may not see a unique costume no longer available of value, but it is). Gambling in its most simple form is just RNG; welcome to every RPG ever.

With all due respect, you are wrong on so many levels it's hard to address.

The house, by ZoS definition, always wins with lockboxes. Read the ToS. What you get from the lockboxes has no commercial value. You can't sell it, you can't trade it, you can't even give it away. If you are paying real money for something with zero commercial value, the house wins.

I assure you, every company gives a hoot prior to a court decision where there is an existing body of law that might be applicable to what they are doing. Do you think the ToS exists just for a warm and fuzzy?

As far as admissions, see Federal Rule of Evidence 407.

When, after an injury or harm allegedly caused by an event,
measures are taken that, if taken previously, would have made the
injury or harm less likely to occur, evidence of the subsequent
measures is not admissible to prove negligence, culpable conduct,
a defect in a product, a defect in a product’s design, or a need for a
warning or instruction.

Rohamad_Ali

It is good idea in principle . If it helps players feel more in control I am fine with it . It would be up to ZOS if they wanted to do this as a show of goodwill or consumer happiness , voluntary of course .

Krileon

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Krileon wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

.

Krileon wrote: »

BlanketFort wrote: »

Krileon wrote: »

BlanketFort wrote: »

Let's all take a moment and grow a heart for a second. Those who advise to "learn 2 adult", why be so callous?
Perhaps those who have issues with gambling are already seeking help, but having this in-game is a trigger for them. Are we really just going to be so cold towards them and simply say "well, it's here now. So, learn 2 adult or stop playing." It is not their fault that gambling boxes made its way to ESO.

On another note, quitting ESO would be the only way to completely ignore the allure the crates bring. But is it fair to them? Is it fair for them to have to quit a game they have invested time, and money, into because of the existence of gambling crates?

I think it would be great if ZOS could add this, as a show of goodwill. And no, linking it to steam is not enough, because console.

Because being an adult is about making responsible choices. If the game is a trigger then stop playing the game. To avoid a lot of these issues they should stick to single player games where there is nothing to fuel an unhealthy addiction. An MMO is profit driven. An MMO is not here to be anyone's therapist. ZOS adding this is an admission of guilt that it's an unhealthy habit and promotes gambling addiction. They will never do it.

Calling responsible adults heartless is a bit bonkers isn't it? Hundreds of thousands of players are capable of being financially responsible. Those that aren't are not adults, because you can't live a stable adult life without financial responsibility. I bought 15 crates. I wanted the apex wolf. I didn't get it. So I didn't buy more. I'll consider buying more only when crowns go back on sale AND I've the money in my entertainment budget (yes, I responsibly set aside some disposable income FOR MY HOBBY).

This culture of hand holding needs to end. I'm sick of people feeling that everyone else should be responsible for their own poor choices.

We are talking about serious gambling addiction, yes?
I have absolutely no qualms over others spending as much as they want, nor did I say that responsible adults are heartless. This thread simply made me think of those who DO have serious gambling problems and how it affects them in-game. And it is not as simple as a lack of financial control, either.
I am not even advocating the removal of crown crates, in case this was the message you understood.

All I'm saying is, is that's it's quite annoying to have to be the person who now has decided to quit the game because of the inclusion of gambling crates. Kindly also understand that the game is their hobby as much as it is yours. To have to abandon that is quite tough (even more so if they are really invested in it), and especially for the sake of being financially responsible. It's like a slap in the face for dealing with the addiction.

Must be tough being a gamer who prioritises MMO genres, playing on a console, with a gambling addiction they are trying to take control over, to even pursue their hobby. I get that ZOS is probably never taking the crates down, I get that this is the trend in MMOs now, but does it have to be? Are we just really going to accept it all because we are not negatively affected by it? I am aware ZOS might not even take this thread seriously, but at least it was said.

By the by, how does a toggle for those who want/need it, affect you? It doesn't. You still get to purchase as many crowns as you want

I honestly don't care and nor should ZOS care about catering to people with serious gambling addictions. We're going full circle to hand-holding and coddling culture. Those people need to SEEK PROFESSIONAL HELP. Expecting the world to shape around their disorder is asinine. If ONE game is an enabler for their HOBBY then they should stop playing that ONE game until they have their addiction under control.

Yes, it does affect me. Why? Because as I've already explained from a business standpoint ZOS would be admitting a feature they implemented poses an addiction problem. It gives legal precedent. With legal precedent there is grounds for suit and if there's grounds for suit it's possible for ZOS to come under public fire (whether they win or lose a law suit), which results in resources directed away from the game I deeply enjoy. It also means crown crates potentially being removed losing a huge financial source for ZOS resulting in even slower development (potentially). It's like you don't understand that a business admitting their commercial feature is addictive and shouldn't be used or should be used with little use is bad for business. "If they knew it caused addictive tendencies and they admit to it then why do they still sell them?" would be all over the front page of these forums if that was the case. If they add parental controls then that means the 18+ age restriction as been lifted. So if they add parental controls then they need to make the game G, PG-13, or etc.. rated and if they do that then the content has to meet that rating. So yes, it affects me.

Some may scream "why do apps do it!" or "why do other things have parental control!". Well lets see. The apps typically don't; the device does; your phone has parental controls, not the app. Steam for example has parental controls, because it's a platform for products of all ages. Your TV has parental controls, because it's a delivery for a wide range of content. ESO is a singular game. A single product. Putting parental locks on a game restricted to adults (if you're under 18 and get caught.. you're banned) would be absurd.

Totally ridiculous.

An admission is not necessary for a finding of fact. Typically silence is an avoidance of bad press.

In the U.S., gambling legislation is largely left to the states.

In most states lock boxes would be considered gambling.

Not all gambling is illegal and ESO lockboxes are most likely legal. A review of the ToS related to the crown store is all you need to understand the current issues thought to be at play.

States that permit gambling typically have "self-exclusion" requirements imposed on casinos.

https://oag.ca.gov/gambling/exclusion_self

Gambling addiction is not a choice and can be manipulated by chemistry. Studies have revealed that over half of gambling revenue comes from addicts, and about 2-4% of the population meet the definition. Similarly, the majority of cash shop revenue typically comes from less than 1% of players.

California estimates there are 1.5 million compulsive gamblers within its borders. Compulsive gambling is so destructive that CA offers no-cost outpatient treatment and free residential treatment for addicts.

With silence they most likely will not be challenged on this. By openly admitting to it they risk being challenged. So yes, it sets legal precedence in the sense that it opens them up to more public eye and possibly gambling regulation enforcement. In short it brings larger attention to it than otherwise would have. If I was ZOS I'd keep my mouth shut on this topic as well. The more game developers that speak open about it and admit it's gambling the more likely they are to get hit by regulation, which I imagine at some point just might happen. Speaking personally I frankly don't care either way.

Until lock boxes have been formally ruled as gambling by a court of law and enforced on a state level no one gives a flying toot about self exclusion or any other gambling laws. There is no "the house always wins" with the crown crates as you always get something of value (some may not see a unique costume no longer available of value, but it is). Gambling in its most simple form is just RNG; welcome to every RPG ever.

With all due respect, you are wrong on so many levels it's hard to address.

The house, by ZoS definition, always wins with lockboxes. Read the ToS. What you get from the lockboxes has no commercial value. You can't sell it, you can't trade it, you can't even give it away. If you are paying real money for something with zero commercial value, the house wins.

I assure you, every company gives a hoot prior to a court decision where there is an existing body of law that might be applicable to what they are doing. Do you think the ToS exists just for a warm and fuzzy?

As far as admissions, see Federal Rule of Evidence 407.

When, after an injury or harm allegedly caused by an event,
measures are taken that, if taken previously, would have made the
injury or harm less likely to occur, evidence of the subsequent
measures is not admissible to prove negligence, culpable conduct,
a defect in a product, a defect in a product’s design, or a need for a
warning or instruction.

You are not buying the lockboxes. You are buying crowns. The crowns are then exchanged for lockboxes. This makes a big difference. There's a huge range of issues to address before any sort of regulation can be made with lockboxes in MMOs. As there hasn't been a court decision or enforcement of this it's in ZOS and every MMOs interest for them to keep their opinion on the matter to themselves. Silence is and will continue to be their best option. If there was regulation already and they didn't add this feature then everyone certainly should be up in arms, but until it has been legally defined and enforced you're just spouting nonsense that isn't applicable here.

Stop trying to apply regulations designed for casinos to an MMO. It doesn't work, which is another big reason this has no regulation. If you feel so strongly about then get representation and push the law to become up to date with todays economy. Until then your options are to be a responsible adult and walk away from the game if it fuels an addictive behavior.

Lockbox regulation only came to real light recently with CS:GO due to Money > Box > Money conversion and is legitimately gambling by even casino definition. They could've gotten around this a little more by Money > Fake Currency > Box > Trade (and by trade I mean item for item, no real money exchange). This is NOT an easy thing to regulate or define how it should be regulated. Broad terms just aren't going to cut it.

If ZOS openly admits it's gambling and it fuels gambling addiction they are setting precedence for regulation. Until then the burden is on those who challenge ZOS on this matter (whether individuals, governments, or state regulation). No company is stupid enough to admit such a thing, but you have fun with that. So feel free to clarify further how wrong I am on so many levels.

rteezy

SantieClaws wrote: »

If someone were to ask a mod or admin privately - perhaps someone who knows they have an issue - would it be technically possible to put something on the account of an individual somewhere that prevents them purchasing the crates in game?

This one she knows of similar systems where it is possible to tick a box on a record or account and thus prevent certain actions.

Khajiit she knows there are some who have an issue - if they contacted you privately would you be able to do this or is it something you could consider setting up - as you have introduced gambling where before there was none you do also have a degree of social responsibility for the consequences yes.

This is not for khajiit yes - she is able to resist - but she sees others who cannot.

This would enable them to continue to travel in Tamriel without having the temptation of the crates in their way. You would keep travellers, and store users, who may otherwise leave.

This one she has many objections to the crates aside from this issue - you know this already - but this one issue this one she believes could be mitigated by a change like this.

Yours with concerned paws
Santie Claws

Apart from the *** role play, Please enlighten us on hwo are crate boxes bad.As far as i see it

1-there is no P2W

2-instead of buying mounts and crap of the store..they come in a box and drop randomly.


So, how exactly is that bad or any different form what we had before and HOW does it affect your special snowflake gameplay?

JimT722

rteezy wrote: »

SantieClaws wrote: »

If someone were to ask a mod or admin privately - perhaps someone who knows they have an issue - would it be technically possible to put something on the account of an individual somewhere that prevents them purchasing the crates in game?

This one she knows of similar systems where it is possible to tick a box on a record or account and thus prevent certain actions.

Khajiit she knows there are some who have an issue - if they contacted you privately would you be able to do this or is it something you could consider setting up - as you have introduced gambling where before there was none you do also have a degree of social responsibility for the consequences yes.

This is not for khajiit yes - she is able to resist - but she sees others who cannot.

This would enable them to continue to travel in Tamriel without having the temptation of the crates in their way. You would keep travellers, and store users, who may otherwise leave.

This one she has many objections to the crates aside from this issue - you know this already - but this one issue this one she believes could be mitigated by a change like this.

Yours with concerned paws
Santie Claws

Apart from the *** role play, Please enlighten us on hwo are crate boxes bad.As far as i see it

1-there is no P2W

2-instead of buying mounts and crap of the store..they come in a box and drop randomly.


So, how exactly is that bad or any different form what we had before and HOW does it affect your special snowflake gameplay?

1. People have spent over $300 to finally get an apex mount. This is because of rng, and it's a unhealthy and undeserved amount of support.
2. Go read Matt Firor's interview regarding the crates. He completely avoided the hard questions. When asked why crates? Why now? He talks about everything but crates.

They know these are bad, that's why they avoid speaking to their community. It's amazing they can take advantage of their customers and they can still rush to defend them.

Rohamad_Ali

rteezy wrote: »

SantieClaws wrote: »

If someone were to ask a mod or admin privately - perhaps someone who knows they have an issue - would it be technically possible to put something on the account of an individual somewhere that prevents them purchasing the crates in game?

This one she knows of similar systems where it is possible to tick a box on a record or account and thus prevent certain actions.

Khajiit she knows there are some who have an issue - if they contacted you privately would you be able to do this or is it something you could consider setting up - as you have introduced gambling where before there was none you do also have a degree of social responsibility for the consequences yes.

This is not for khajiit yes - she is able to resist - but she sees others who cannot.

This would enable them to continue to travel in Tamriel without having the temptation of the crates in their way. You would keep travellers, and store users, who may otherwise leave.

This one she has many objections to the crates aside from this issue - you know this already - but this one issue this one she believes could be mitigated by a change like this.

Yours with concerned paws
Santie Claws

Apart from the *** role play, Please enlighten us on hwo are crate boxes bad.As far as i see it

1-there is no P2W

2-instead of buying mounts and crap of the store..they come in a box and drop randomly.


So, how exactly is that bad or any different form what we had before and HOW does it affect your special snowflake gameplay?

I'll tell you my reason although it's just a pov just like yours . I don't like because it raises the income in one department of the game and the CEOs see that and make developers focus more there . Players don't realize what they spend on determines where future focus will go , or they do and just don't care . I like the focus to come from content updates and things more relevant to play time .

Nestor

rteezy wrote: »

So, how exactly is that bad or any different form what we had before and HOW does it affect your special snowflake gameplay?

@rtreezy

Because it would be so much nicer if they came out and said this item costs this many crowns, do you want to buy it.

Instead, it is a gamble that you don't know what you are going to get. The crux of the matter is, if you want a specific item, then you have to purchase an unknown number of crates until you get that item, spending more in the long run for what you want, and getting in return, things you probably don't care about.

Now, if they put an item in crates and also on the crown store, then it would not be as big a deal, as people could make the choice, chance for spending less, or certainty spending more. You are only given a system where RNG and Chance determines what you get, thereby playing on the emotional need for instant gratification that is unfulfilled with most purchases.

In other words, they are manipulating people into spending money rather than enticing them to spend money. Which is the same thing at it's core, but people can make a decision knowing what is going to happen with only one of these methods.

Jim_Pipp

Time for a regrettable drunk post. But this thread is ridiculous.

A toggle On/Off crown crates affects no-one except ZOS dirty profits and responsible addicts managing their lives well. Adding the option to toggle off crown crates is not an admission of responsibility for gambling (seriously, they moderate these forums, they cannot realistically deny that they know gambling with crown crates is problematic). They have an opportunity to take the moral high ground.

So much respect to the members of the community who don't get baited into angry responses, especially the incredibly helpful ones like @Nestor, @Enodoc and everyone's favourite @SantieClaws

Krileon

Jim_Pipp wrote: »

Time for a regrettable drunk post. But this thread is ridiculous.

A toggle On/Off crown crates affects no-one except ZOS dirty profits and responsible addicts managing their lives well. Adding the option to toggle off crown crates is not an admission of responsibility for gambling (seriously, they moderate these forums, they cannot realistically deny that they know gambling with crown crates is problematic). They have an opportunity to take the moral high ground.

So much respect to the members of the community who don't get baited into angry responses, especially the incredibly helpful ones like @Nestor, @Enodoc and everyone's favourite @SantieClaws

A toggle off benefits no one. An addict will just toggle it back on. What they're asking for is parental controls, because that's the only thing that would work. What I mean by that is you need a second party to block it on your behalf which you can not reverse. This is typically the parents password locking the device or feature. That is the ONLY way this will work unless they implemented a means for you to put a block on your own account that you can not reverse for a given time period. There's no way they wouldn't allow you to request it be reversed as well since they have to comply with the account holders wishes. That makes this entire topic just absurd, because the game is 18+ restricted and again parental controls in an adult game is in simple terms: stupid.

Anyway, checking my self out of this topic as I've repeated this like 4 times now.

geonsocal

had a chance to read through most of the posts...

a lot a good "what if's" and technical obstacles stated...I'm not sure any of us have the "perfect" solution at this exact moment...

however - a demonstration by zenimax in the form of implementing some tool to somehow assist those in need would go a long way with its customer base in acknowledging their concerns...

it would seem to me that a good chunk of its core customer/user base is right here - whom else would dedicate so much of their time to this game just in discussing their product...

customer input/feedback should be a core component of any business...

man, I miss @UrQuan - he's so much better at explaining this kind of stuff...

KingYogi415

It's not like ZOS is paying people to promote bad spending habits.

On a different and unrelated note, I recommend Kreditkarma to all my friends.

Jim_Pipp

Krileon wrote: »

A toggle off benefits no one. An addict will just toggle it back on. What they're asking for is parental controls, because that's the only thing that would work...

There's no way they wouldn't allow you to request it be reversed as well since they have to comply with the account holders wishes. That makes this entire topic just absurd, because the game is 18+ restricted and again parental controls in an adult game is in simple terms: stupid.

Anyway, checking my self out of this topic as I've repeated this like 4 times now.

I know you have checked out, but I feel people, and you especially, have confused and over-complicated this very workable idea.

It is not parental controls, it doesn't require another person. Just have a timer on the reactivativation.

So you can toggle on/off crown crates, but there is a 24hr delay when you switch them on. This is to help people with impulse control, and 24 hours plus the need to make a deliberate choice does that.

Years ago I worked with homeless people, and gambling was part of some peoples story. When people wanted to change they would go to every local betting shop (UK) and give them a selfie asking not to be served there, it was responsible individual chosing to avoid their past mistakes.

The most dissapointing thing about these threads has been the way all addicts have been presented as childish slaves to addiction instead of reasonable people who can (and do) work hard to change unhelpful compulsive habits.

FortheloveofKrist

#Notanotherdime

Wreuntzylla

Krileon wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Krileon wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

.

Krileon wrote: »

BlanketFort wrote: »

Krileon wrote: »

BlanketFort wrote: »

Let's all take a moment and grow a heart for a second. Those who advise to "learn 2 adult", why be so callous?
Perhaps those who have issues with gambling are already seeking help, but having this in-game is a trigger for them. Are we really just going to be so cold towards them and simply say "well, it's here now. So, learn 2 adult or stop playing." It is not their fault that gambling boxes made its way to ESO.

On another note, quitting ESO would be the only way to completely ignore the allure the crates bring. But is it fair to them? Is it fair for them to have to quit a game they have invested time, and money, into because of the existence of gambling crates?

I think it would be great if ZOS could add this, as a show of goodwill. And no, linking it to steam is not enough, because console.

Because being an adult is about making responsible choices. If the game is a trigger then stop playing the game. To avoid a lot of these issues they should stick to single player games where there is nothing to fuel an unhealthy addiction. An MMO is profit driven. An MMO is not here to be anyone's therapist. ZOS adding this is an admission of guilt that it's an unhealthy habit and promotes gambling addiction. They will never do it.

Calling responsible adults heartless is a bit bonkers isn't it? Hundreds of thousands of players are capable of being financially responsible. Those that aren't are not adults, because you can't live a stable adult life without financial responsibility. I bought 15 crates. I wanted the apex wolf. I didn't get it. So I didn't buy more. I'll consider buying more only when crowns go back on sale AND I've the money in my entertainment budget (yes, I responsibly set aside some disposable income FOR MY HOBBY).

This culture of hand holding needs to end. I'm sick of people feeling that everyone else should be responsible for their own poor choices.

We are talking about serious gambling addiction, yes?
I have absolutely no qualms over others spending as much as they want, nor did I say that responsible adults are heartless. This thread simply made me think of those who DO have serious gambling problems and how it affects them in-game. And it is not as simple as a lack of financial control, either.
I am not even advocating the removal of crown crates, in case this was the message you understood.

All I'm saying is, is that's it's quite annoying to have to be the person who now has decided to quit the game because of the inclusion of gambling crates. Kindly also understand that the game is their hobby as much as it is yours. To have to abandon that is quite tough (even more so if they are really invested in it), and especially for the sake of being financially responsible. It's like a slap in the face for dealing with the addiction.

Must be tough being a gamer who prioritises MMO genres, playing on a console, with a gambling addiction they are trying to take control over, to even pursue their hobby. I get that ZOS is probably never taking the crates down, I get that this is the trend in MMOs now, but does it have to be? Are we just really going to accept it all because we are not negatively affected by it? I am aware ZOS might not even take this thread seriously, but at least it was said.

By the by, how does a toggle for those who want/need it, affect you? It doesn't. You still get to purchase as many crowns as you want

I honestly don't care and nor should ZOS care about catering to people with serious gambling addictions. We're going full circle to hand-holding and coddling culture. Those people need to SEEK PROFESSIONAL HELP. Expecting the world to shape around their disorder is asinine. If ONE game is an enabler for their HOBBY then they should stop playing that ONE game until they have their addiction under control.

Yes, it does affect me. Why? Because as I've already explained from a business standpoint ZOS would be admitting a feature they implemented poses an addiction problem. It gives legal precedent. With legal precedent there is grounds for suit and if there's grounds for suit it's possible for ZOS to come under public fire (whether they win or lose a law suit), which results in resources directed away from the game I deeply enjoy. It also means crown crates potentially being removed losing a huge financial source for ZOS resulting in even slower development (potentially). It's like you don't understand that a business admitting their commercial feature is addictive and shouldn't be used or should be used with little use is bad for business. "If they knew it caused addictive tendencies and they admit to it then why do they still sell them?" would be all over the front page of these forums if that was the case. If they add parental controls then that means the 18+ age restriction as been lifted. So if they add parental controls then they need to make the game G, PG-13, or etc.. rated and if they do that then the content has to meet that rating. So yes, it affects me.

Some may scream "why do apps do it!" or "why do other things have parental control!". Well lets see. The apps typically don't; the device does; your phone has parental controls, not the app. Steam for example has parental controls, because it's a platform for products of all ages. Your TV has parental controls, because it's a delivery for a wide range of content. ESO is a singular game. A single product. Putting parental locks on a game restricted to adults (if you're under 18 and get caught.. you're banned) would be absurd.

Totally ridiculous.

An admission is not necessary for a finding of fact. Typically silence is an avoidance of bad press.

In the U.S., gambling legislation is largely left to the states.

In most states lock boxes would be considered gambling.

Not all gambling is illegal and ESO lockboxes are most likely legal. A review of the ToS related to the crown store is all you need to understand the current issues thought to be at play.

States that permit gambling typically have "self-exclusion" requirements imposed on casinos.

https://oag.ca.gov/gambling/exclusion_self

Gambling addiction is not a choice and can be manipulated by chemistry. Studies have revealed that over half of gambling revenue comes from addicts, and about 2-4% of the population meet the definition. Similarly, the majority of cash shop revenue typically comes from less than 1% of players.

California estimates there are 1.5 million compulsive gamblers within its borders. Compulsive gambling is so destructive that CA offers no-cost outpatient treatment and free residential treatment for addicts.

With silence they most likely will not be challenged on this. By openly admitting to it they risk being challenged. So yes, it sets legal precedence in the sense that it opens them up to more public eye and possibly gambling regulation enforcement. In short it brings larger attention to it than otherwise would have. If I was ZOS I'd keep my mouth shut on this topic as well. The more game developers that speak open about it and admit it's gambling the more likely they are to get hit by regulation, which I imagine at some point just might happen. Speaking personally I frankly don't care either way.

Until lock boxes have been formally ruled as gambling by a court of law and enforced on a state level no one gives a flying toot about self exclusion or any other gambling laws. There is no "the house always wins" with the crown crates as you always get something of value (some may not see a unique costume no longer available of value, but it is). Gambling in its most simple form is just RNG; welcome to every RPG ever.

With all due respect, you are wrong on so many levels it's hard to address.

The house, by ZoS definition, always wins with lockboxes. Read the ToS. What you get from the lockboxes has no commercial value. You can't sell it, you can't trade it, you can't even give it away. If you are paying real money for something with zero commercial value, the house wins.

I assure you, every company gives a hoot prior to a court decision where there is an existing body of law that might be applicable to what they are doing. Do you think the ToS exists just for a warm and fuzzy?

As far as admissions, see Federal Rule of Evidence 407.

When, after an injury or harm allegedly caused by an event,
measures are taken that, if taken previously, would have made the
injury or harm less likely to occur, evidence of the subsequent
measures is not admissible to prove negligence, culpable conduct,
a defect in a product, a defect in a product’s design, or a need for a
warning or instruction.

You are not buying the lockboxes. You are buying crowns. The crowns are then exchanged for lockboxes. This makes a big difference. There's a huge range of issues to address before any sort of regulation can be made with lockboxes in MMOs. As there hasn't been a court decision or enforcement of this it's in ZOS and every MMOs interest for them to keep their opinion on the matter to themselves. Silence is and will continue to be their best option. If there was regulation already and they didn't add this feature then everyone certainly should be up in arms, but until it has been legally defined and enforced you're just spouting nonsense that isn't applicable here.

Stop trying to apply regulations designed for casinos to an MMO. It doesn't work, which is another big reason this has no regulation. If you feel so strongly about then get representation and push the law to become up to date with todays economy. Until then your options are to be a responsible adult and walk away from the game if it fuels an addictive behavior.

Lockbox regulation only came to real light recently with CS:GO due to Money > Box > Money conversion and is legitimately gambling by even casino definition. They could've gotten around this a little more by Money > Fake Currency > Box > Trade (and by trade I mean item for item, no real money exchange). This is NOT an easy thing to regulate or define how it should be regulated. Broad terms just aren't going to cut it.

If ZOS openly admits it's gambling and it fuels gambling addiction they are setting precedence for regulation. Until then the burden is on those who challenge ZOS on this matter (whether individuals, governments, or state regulation). No company is stupid enough to admit such a thing, but you have fun with that. So feel free to clarify further how wrong I am on so many levels.

Do me this one solid. Before you continue to argue, search the Internet for the term "sweepstakes.".

Gambling laws are applied to any activity falling under the definition of gambling. Casino or bingo. Every program that provides a randomly determined winner either allows free entries as a sweepstakes or falls afoul of gambling laws applied to casinos. If you ever wondered why free entries are permitted in giveaways related to buyers of a specific product, that's why.

I have no idea who is giving you legal advice but fire them. Now.

Publius_Scipio

I'm not going to place blame or anything, but damn you people sure depressed the sh[snip] out of me in this thread about a video game..... irl.

Mojmir

deevoh1991

If watching people with all kinds of fancy mounts and skins before wasn't enough, Now I have to see people happily gambling and showing of all the new things they have aquired in a faster and more tempting to watch way. Alas, I cannot morally permit myself to spend my IRL on virtual goodies. I just can't. But good job marketing team, you really now how to destroy bank accounts for a person who gives in

Publius_Scipio

Deevo191 wrote: »

If watching people with all kinds of fancy mounts and skins before wasn't enough, Now I have to see people happily gambling and showing of all the new things they have aquired in a faster and more tempting to watch way. Alas, I cannot morally permit myself to spend my IRL on virtual goodies. I just can't. But good job marketing team, you really now how to destroy bank accounts for a person who gives in

That's a bit aggressive there my friend. We all have our opinions but people are asking ZOS to pick up and shoulder their personal opinions and views about "morality". I am not entirely sure that is fair to ZOS. The real answer I believe lies not in opinion but in what is legal for ZOS as a company to do, and then under that what ZOS ultimately themselves as their right decides to do.

I may be going out on a limb here, but does anyone know that ZOS did not have the whole crown crate thing researched and checked legally before deciding to move forward with it? I find it hard to believe (but maybe possible) that a large company owned by a large corporation such as Zenimax doesn't have a legal team giving the ok before products and services are released. In fact there must be a legal team because all the Terms of Service we all have to accept before ever setting foot in Tamriel for the first time is all from the legal department.

alexkdd99

JimT722 wrote: »

alexkdd99 wrote: »

FoolishHuman wrote: »

Dazza1968 wrote: »

And the people that want their accounts crate blocked should cover the cost of this, yes?

Seriously, video games are the only business where every customer talks like a lawyer or stockholder for the company. No wonder they think they can just milk out our hobby like this, we gamers let them do it.

Every business who supply hobby items attempt to get as much money from their customer. That is what businesses do. You want to get as much money from each customer as possible. That is how businesses work, why should zos be the one company who doesn't care about profits?

Take rc cars for instance, a small part that cost probably 2 cents to make will cost me close to 10$. But I don't complain and cry about it, I pay it because I enjoy using it. The moment I stop enjoying something I stop doing it.

Video gamers act more entitled than any other hobbyist. You wouldn't go into a physical store and demand they stop selling something. If you did they would probably laugh while kicking you out of their store. Let's stop acting like zos is a charity organization and more like a business, which it is.

Actually, the price of that part goes down the more that will be made. The first part is incredibly expensive. Only after you can mass produce a part does the price go down. Specialty items will cost more. Still a fair price since I doubt that you could make your first one for less. I would sell my products for a fair price, and my customers would respect that.

Only the person making the purchase can decide if it is fair to them. To me any purchase I have made was fair, including crates. If I don't feel like it is a fair purchase I don't make it.

Any true gambling addict isn't buying up crown crates in eso, they are at a casino or gambling online where it nets you real cash. As others have stated this game is rated m for mature. If you are mature you can make mature decisions, if you are not then I suggest you stop playing eso and figure some things out.

No business is going to stop people from buying their product, especially when they have unlimited supply.

ihtizar

Dazza1968 wrote: »

ZOS is under no legal obligation or moral obligation to provide services like this, so never going to happen.

All the people that are soo unhappy with ZOS since crategate, need to start asking themselves some serious questions imo.

lel funny comment