When will dark deal get balanced?

Takes-No-Prisoner

DurzoBlint13 wrote: »

Dragon Knights are the only class that do NOT have a Stam returning ability. They can increase Stam regen with Green Dragons Blood but they are the only class without a direct Stam return ability.

I mean they have Helping Hands, but its a passive and is proc'ed on Earthen Heart abilities. But yeah,, don't mind me, I can't play DK

leepalmer95

Derra wrote: »

@leepalmer95

Let´s start the other way round. Instead of making rants about how skill x is op without offering a solution: Why don´t you come up with a balancing idea for dark deal that also keeps dark conversion relevant for magica sorcs (because that one is not a backbone of their skillset).

My proposal for dark deal would be to make it cost resources even when interrupted - see how that works.

Or make it scaleable with your biggest stat either magicka or stamina.

0.8:1 ratio.

Make is scaleable like every other sustain type of skill in the game.

So 50k stamina would give you 4k per cast.

40k stamina would give 3200 per cast.

Plus your suggestion.

GreenSoup2HoT

Derra wrote: »

@leepalmer95

Let´s start the other way round. Instead of making rants about how skill x is op without offering a solution: Why don´t you come up with a balancing idea for dark deal that also keeps dark conversion relevant for magica sorcs (because that one is not a backbone of their skillset).

My proposal for dark deal would be to make it cost resources even when interrupted - see how that works.

Agree'd. I also think the health/stamina return should be adjusted. Less stamina more health.

leepalmer95

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

DurzoBlint13 wrote: »

Dragon Knights are the only class that do NOT have a Stam returning ability. They can increase Stam regen with Green Dragons Blood but they are the only class without a direct Stam return ability.

I mean they have Helping Hands, but its a passive and is proc'ed on Earthen Heart abilities. But yeah,, don't mind me, I can't play DK

Yeah but even but 40k stamina you need to cast igneous 2.5x before you get the same return a single dark deal gives.

As well as 2.5x the magicka.

Erock25

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

So much LOL!!!

Dark deal is not weak, it is not a bad skill. It does allow a StamSorc to refresh themselves, when there is a lul in the fight or if they manage to escape refill and then get back to it. But it is not a skill that is easily used right in the middle of a fight to save oneself. Such as when a DK uses an ultimate and gets back EVERYTHING. Or a nightblade with their much better sustain and ability into just cloak off. Or a stamplar that can repent the dead.

Dark deal is a strong class defining ability in PvP. Of that no one here can argue. However it is not an oh crap button and it gives Stam sorcs a way to be unique and formidable. But honestly when compared to cloak, Jesus beam, Templar shields, wings, DK passives, incapacitating strike, and many of the other very strong class abilities and passives, it's in line with them.

The Stam sorcs niche that exists within there class is hit and run, it is annoying at times to fight against, but it's their niche and it's a fun play style for some. But if you out fengrush on any other class he will still kill it.

So seriously chill, this thread is a little silly.

While i do not fully agree, you do have a solid point.

Erock25 wrote: »

So funny reading nerf threads. "I'm literally never not able to cast dark deal." You don't know what literally means and your hyperbole burns my eyes.

Leepalmer seems to make a new nerf thread every day. What a joke.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/literally

By all means, enlighten me, as to how i am not understanding the word? FYI, in this case, it is meant as no 3 in the link.

I have to spell it out for you? I am LITERALLY, 100%, without a doubt, and with no exaggeration sure that you have had instances in cyrodiil where you were unable to cast Dark Deal when you wanted to. You have been bashed, crushing shocked, venow arrowed. Your 10k-14k magicka has been depleted enough that you could not cast this 3.5-4k (or is it more? i forget) magicka spell. I too run heavy armor stam sorc build and believe that most of the time (even 90-95% of the time) when you want to Dark Deal, you're able to, but I wouldn't be surprised if a couple of times per play session you're actually out of magicka and wanting to Dark Deal. You can continue to lie if you want and come back saying that I'm wrong and you've literally never not been able to Dark Deal but everyone will know you are lying.

All I'm saying is when you're arguing to nerf something, hyperbole is your worst enemy. It just makes you seem a fanatic and not reasonable.

So your saying the concept of full dmg and heavy armor with no sustain thought is good? It should be in the game?

No, that isn't what I'm saying at all. I was saying I would believe that guy if what he said was that the vast majority of the time that he wants to Dark Deal, he has the magicka to do so, depending on how and when he uses Streak. Me? I'm constantly out of resources in my 5 black rose, 5 viper, 2 skoria dw/bow set up, but I roll dodge too often and realistically only get a few hours a week to play so my skill isn't top notch. If you aren't playing a stamina sorcerer yourself, I suggest you don't base your opinions on the class and it's skills on how the top 0.5% of the class plays it (aka Fengrush in the instance of stam sorc).

I just can't wait until the christmas holiday event releases the rumored health, stamina, stam regen DRINK buff so I can use 5 draughr, 5 bone pirate, dw maelstrom, master bow set up I've been waiting for and I can finally escape this heavy armor/black rose criticism even though I've been using it since IC dropped.

leepalmer95

Erock25 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

So much LOL!!!

Dark deal is not weak, it is not a bad skill. It does allow a StamSorc to refresh themselves, when there is a lul in the fight or if they manage to escape refill and then get back to it. But it is not a skill that is easily used right in the middle of a fight to save oneself. Such as when a DK uses an ultimate and gets back EVERYTHING. Or a nightblade with their much better sustain and ability into just cloak off. Or a stamplar that can repent the dead.

Dark deal is a strong class defining ability in PvP. Of that no one here can argue. However it is not an oh crap button and it gives Stam sorcs a way to be unique and formidable. But honestly when compared to cloak, Jesus beam, Templar shields, wings, DK passives, incapacitating strike, and many of the other very strong class abilities and passives, it's in line with them.

The Stam sorcs niche that exists within there class is hit and run, it is annoying at times to fight against, but it's their niche and it's a fun play style for some. But if you out fengrush on any other class he will still kill it.

So seriously chill, this thread is a little silly.

While i do not fully agree, you do have a solid point.

Erock25 wrote: »

So funny reading nerf threads. "I'm literally never not able to cast dark deal." You don't know what literally means and your hyperbole burns my eyes.

Leepalmer seems to make a new nerf thread every day. What a joke.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/literally

By all means, enlighten me, as to how i am not understanding the word? FYI, in this case, it is meant as no 3 in the link.

I have to spell it out for you? I am LITERALLY, 100%, without a doubt, and with no exaggeration sure that you have had instances in cyrodiil where you were unable to cast Dark Deal when you wanted to. You have been bashed, crushing shocked, venow arrowed. Your 10k-14k magicka has been depleted enough that you could not cast this 3.5-4k (or is it more? i forget) magicka spell. I too run heavy armor stam sorc build and believe that most of the time (even 90-95% of the time) when you want to Dark Deal, you're able to, but I wouldn't be surprised if a couple of times per play session you're actually out of magicka and wanting to Dark Deal. You can continue to lie if you want and come back saying that I'm wrong and you've literally never not been able to Dark Deal but everyone will know you are lying.

All I'm saying is when you're arguing to nerf something, hyperbole is your worst enemy. It just makes you seem a fanatic and not reasonable.

So your saying the concept of full dmg and heavy armor with no sustain thought is good? It should be in the game?

No, that isn't what I'm saying at all. I was saying I would believe that guy if what he said was that the vast majority of the time that he wants to Dark Deal, he has the magicka to do so, depending on how and when he uses Streak. Me? I'm constantly out of resources in my 5 black rose, 5 viper, 2 skoria dw/bow set up, but I roll dodge too often and realistically only get a few hours a week to play so my skill isn't top notch. If you aren't playing a stamina sorcerer yourself, I suggest you don't base your opinions on the class and it's skills on how the top 0.5% of the class plays it (aka Fengrush in the instance of stam sorc).

I just can't wait until the christmas holiday event releases the rumored health, stamina, stam regen DRINK buff so I can use 5 draughr, 5 bone pirate, dw maelstrom, master bow set up I've been waiting for and I can finally escape this heavy armor/black rose criticism even though I've been using it since IC dropped.

It's not that hard to sustain in it.

I can sustain in it just perfectly. Too perfectly.

DurzoBlint13

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

DurzoBlint13 wrote: »

Dragon Knights are the only class that do NOT have a Stam returning ability. They can increase Stam regen with Green Dragons Blood but they are the only class without a direct Stam return ability.

I mean they have Helping Hands, but its a passive and is proc'ed on Earthen Heart abilities. But yeah,, don't mind me, I can't play DK

you should try a mag-DK. They are very fun to play! Get yourself Burning Spellweave and Silk of the Sun with either Ilambris or Skoria (maybe Grothdar depending on your play style) and you will destroy everything in your path (in PvE). Still working on perfecting my PvP setup with him, but right now I am using Juli, Sun and Skoria (all heavy impen) and liking it a lot. I did not like my mag-DK at first either but the more I try to play with him the more I like it. Just takes some getting used to since it is a little different from other classes with all of their DOTs. You just have to keep track of which buffs and debuffs you have going and when they expire to keep them up constantly- on console it is not easy, unless we ever get buff/debuff timers like the PC master race! Lol

Takes-No-Prisoner

DurzoBlint13 wrote: »

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

DurzoBlint13 wrote: »

Dragon Knights are the only class that do NOT have a Stam returning ability. They can increase Stam regen with Green Dragons Blood but they are the only class without a direct Stam return ability.

I mean they have Helping Hands, but its a passive and is proc'ed on Earthen Heart abilities. But yeah,, don't mind me, I can't play DK

you should try a mag-DK. They are very fun to play! Get yourself Burning Spellweave and Silk of the Sun with either Ilambris or Skoria (maybe Grothdar depending on your play style) and you will destroy everything in your path (in PvE). Still working on perfecting my PvP setup with him, but right now I am using Juli, Sun and Skoria (all heavy impen) and liking it a lot. I did not like my mag-DK at first either but the more I try to play with him the more I like it. Just takes some getting used to since it is a little different from other classes with all of their DOTs. You just have to keep track of which buffs and debuffs you have going and when they expire to keep them up constantly- on console it is not easy, unless we ever get buff/debuff timers like the PC master race! Lol

I was thinking about leveling my magDK tonight actually. Hes a cute lil lv26 Argonian magDK. I was thinking the same gear set up. But once I finish farming my 1handed sharpend weap from Fungal Grotto, I'll prolly work on getting Spellweave and Silks.

There is a guy I was grouped with for PvP awhile back who had some neato ideas for running 2 MagDKs with different morphs of the same abilities[like Talons] to use that in big fights. I seen him fight on his Vampy MagDK he was pretty tanky and seemed like he had no problems melting faces into the ground. Only tricky part for me would be like you mentioned, keeping DoTs up.

Snit

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Dark deal enables stam sorc to ignore sustain altogether.. nothing else can do that.

No, it doesn't.

I play a stamsorc and a mageblade. The mageblade has a much easier time with resource management, due solely to siphoning strikes. The stamsorc is far more capable overall, but it's not due to Dark Deal.

I think you may have an opportunity to anticipate and interrupt more effectively. Shuffle is good, but it doesn't give stamsorcs or anyone else a 100% dodge chance.

leepalmer95

Snit wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Dark deal enables stam sorc to ignore sustain altogether.. nothing else can do that.

No, it doesn't.

I play a stamsorc and a mageblade. The mageblade has a much easier time with resource management, due solely to siphoning strikes. The stamsorc is far more capable overall, but it's not due to Dark Deal.

I think you may have an opportunity to anticipate and interrupt more effectively. Shuffle is good, but it doesn't give stamsorcs or anyone else a 100% dodge chance.

Mageblade need to use 5x light attacks to get the same sustain as dark deal. Plus you can't play a mag nb without any regen..

DurzoBlint13

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

DurzoBlint13 wrote: »

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

DurzoBlint13 wrote: »

Dragon Knights are the only class that do NOT have a Stam returning ability. They can increase Stam regen with Green Dragons Blood but they are the only class without a direct Stam return ability.

I mean they have Helping Hands, but its a passive and is proc'ed on Earthen Heart abilities. But yeah,, don't mind me, I can't play DK

you should try a mag-DK. They are very fun to play! Get yourself Burning Spellweave and Silk of the Sun with either Ilambris or Skoria (maybe Grothdar depending on your play style) and you will destroy everything in your path (in PvE). Still working on perfecting my PvP setup with him, but right now I am using Juli, Sun and Skoria (all heavy impen) and liking it a lot. I did not like my mag-DK at first either but the more I try to play with him the more I like it. Just takes some getting used to since it is a little different from other classes with all of their DOTs. You just have to keep track of which buffs and debuffs you have going and when they expire to keep them up constantly- on console it is not easy, unless we ever get buff/debuff timers like the PC master race! Lol

I was thinking about leveling my magDK tonight actually. Hes a cute lil lv26 Argonian magDK. I was thinking the same gear set up. But once I finish farming my 1handed sharpend weap from Fungal Grotto, I'll prolly work on getting Spellweave and Silks.

There is a guy I was grouped with for PvP awhile back who had some neato ideas for running 2 MagDKs with different morphs of the same abilities[like Talons] to use that in big fights. I seen him fight on his Vampy MagDK he was pretty tanky and seemed like he had no problems melting faces into the ground. Only tricky part for me would be like you mentioned, keeping DoTs up.

I see you are on ps4/NA like me. I am still looking for a Spellweave Sharpened Inferno staff, so if you need someone to farm with hit me up. If I am not in PvP I am farming for BiS set pieces in dungeons and over-world. Just ask. Worst I can say is that I am busy ATM but I will always answer

Bramir

Nerf bolt escape. Sorcerers stole my bike!

themonstore_ESO

interrupt is a thing

leepalmer95

themonstore_ESO wrote: »

interrupt is a thing

Reading a thread and not just the title is a thing.

themonstore_ESO

leepalmer95 wrote: »

themonstore_ESO wrote: »

interrupt is a thing

Reading a thread and not just the title is a thing.

I have and seems you are just upset over losing a fight so you want to cry nerf.

There are so many other issues in PvP unsure why you are so upset over this one.

Snit

leepalmer95 wrote: »

themonstore_ESO wrote: »

interrupt is a thing

Reading a thread and not just the title is a thing.

I think we all read it. In summary, you're saying that stam sorcs have unlimited resources because you can never interrupt Dark Deal.

If you're consistently unable to interrupt channeled spells, is that truly a class balance problem?

scorpiodog

leepalmer95 wrote: »

They buffed dark deal too much.

That buff was the start of heavy stam sorc literally ignoring sustain. Why sustain at all? Every magicka class needs to give up equipment slots for sustain, most of the stam ones do but not stam sorc. They can get a 5k heal and 5k stamina back any time they please with a 1.1s cast time skill.

Its so annoying difficult to bash a stam sorc as well.

Shuffle dodges bash

Shuffle dodges interrupts like crushing shock.

You slow down when you bash and with the way stam sorc is being the the most mobile character in the game its not easy to actually catch up to them. You can gap close spam all you want. Bash just doesn't work most of the time.

They line of sight for like 3s and can cast around 15-20k stamina back?

Even the heal on dark deal is pretty strong, 5k heal per cast? That coupled with vigor/rally and crit surge is so annoying.

How the stam return balanced with any other skill in the game?

- It would take a nb 5x light attacks to gain the same stamina back.
- A stamina dk with 40k stamina would need 2.5x casts of igneous.
- Even templar repentance which needs you to kill someone gives quite a lot less than this.


When did ignoring sustain on a class become just part of the game. When did people just find it acceptable a class can have so much tankyiness and dmg and completely ignore sustain.

It's not even like they give up something much in return? The whole concept of turning magicka into sustain is just stupid. Every other class and build needs to build sustain why doesn't stam
sorc?

Imagine if other classes could literally ignore all forms of sustain like this. Like one of those full dmg gankblades who can 1 hit pretty much anything, That with infinite sustain...

LOL my stam sorc doesn't even slot Dark Deal and I have plenty of sustain ... sure, yeah ... nerf dark deal, that's the one ... that will make it all even steven, lol.

A good Stam Sorc build can get sustain from so many different places dark deal is just the easy "no brainer" option.

GreenSoup2HoT

Snit wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

themonstore_ESO wrote: »

interrupt is a thing

Reading a thread and not just the title is a thing.

I think we all read it. In summary, you're saying that stam sorcs have unlimited resources because you can never interrupt Dark Deal.

If you're consistently unable to interrupt channeled spells, is that truly a class balance problem?

Competent players know how to not get interrupted and use LOS, etc. The fact is, if no interrupting is being done, stam sorcs basically have unlimited resources without needing to build for it because of one skill.

Also consider the fact that there is a thing called Immovable potions and CC immunity. Which means either 15 or 6 seconds time to cast Dark Deal without a care in the world.

The only class that even comes close to this kind of sustain is a block tank magicka dk spamming igneous for stamina or maybe a redguard stam dk wearing blackrose + hulk.

This thread is not trying to completely destroy the ability... its not hard either for experienced players to see what is over-performing even if its only by a small margin.

I know Fengrush is a beast player but you can tell by the way he plays that its so easy for him to abuse the hell out of Dark Deal. Literally blowing all his stamina or health just to spam DD and be full again. He has spec'ed specifically for magicka regen so he can be the most annoying stam sorc alive. Always capable of streaking away to spam some more DD.

At this point instead of asking for a nerf, i want my damn siphoning caltrops back. Even that fails in comparison.

leepalmer95

scorpiodog wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

They buffed dark deal too much.

That buff was the start of heavy stam sorc literally ignoring sustain. Why sustain at all? Every magicka class needs to give up equipment slots for sustain, most of the stam ones do but not stam sorc. They can get a 5k heal and 5k stamina back any time they please with a 1.1s cast time skill.

Its so annoying difficult to bash a stam sorc as well.

Shuffle dodges bash

Shuffle dodges interrupts like crushing shock.

You slow down when you bash and with the way stam sorc is being the the most mobile character in the game its not easy to actually catch up to them. You can gap close spam all you want. Bash just doesn't work most of the time.

They line of sight for like 3s and can cast around 15-20k stamina back?

Even the heal on dark deal is pretty strong, 5k heal per cast? That coupled with vigor/rally and crit surge is so annoying.

How the stam return balanced with any other skill in the game?

- It would take a nb 5x light attacks to gain the same stamina back.
- A stamina dk with 40k stamina would need 2.5x casts of igneous.
- Even templar repentance which needs you to kill someone gives quite a lot less than this.


When did ignoring sustain on a class become just part of the game. When did people just find it acceptable a class can have so much tankyiness and dmg and completely ignore sustain.

It's not even like they give up something much in return? The whole concept of turning magicka into sustain is just stupid. Every other class and build needs to build sustain why doesn't stam
sorc?

Imagine if other classes could literally ignore all forms of sustain like this. Like one of those full dmg gankblades who can 1 hit pretty much anything, That with infinite sustain...

LOL my stam sorc doesn't even slot Dark Deal and I have plenty of sustain ... sure, yeah ... nerf dark deal, that's the one ... that will make it all even steven, lol.

A good Stam Sorc build can get sustain from so many different places dark deal is just the easy "no brainer" option.

So what your saying is your not against this?

Thank you for agreeing with me.

mr_wazzabi

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Bandit1215 wrote: »

Well they can only cast it a few times before running out of magicka, and then they don't have any magicka for streak which is part of what makes them mobile.

They can cast it like 4 times? 5 times?

Then you use something called tri pots.

Then you let black rose go to work

Only high end pvp'ers use tripots regularly. Every other stam sorc will only have stam potions and be out of magicka. Once they use the tripot, they might get 2 or 3 dark deals before running dry.

If you nerf a skill, consider the pve implications too. Don't just think pvp for everything.

When i run maelstrom i rely on dark deal in between rounds or i start the next round with no stam an i'm dead. I don't have the time to grind cash or columbine to use 50+ tripots each vma run.

Think of the big picture before you cry nerf. Not everyone runs an op build like Fengrush.

Chrlynsch

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

themonstore_ESO wrote: »

interrupt is a thing

Reading a thread and not just the title is a thing.

I think we all read it. In summary, you're saying that stam sorcs have unlimited resources because you can never interrupt Dark Deal.

If you're consistently unable to interrupt channeled spells, is that truly a class balance problem?

Competent players know how to not get interrupted and use LOS, etc. The fact is, if no interrupting is being done, stam sorcs basically have unlimited resources without needing to build for it because of one skill.

Also consider the fact that there is a thing called Immovable potions and CC immunity. Which means either 15 or 6 seconds time to cast Dark Deal without a care in the world.

The only class that even comes close to this kind of sustain is a block tank magicka dk spamming igneous for stamina or maybe a redguard stam dk wearing blackrose + hulk.

This thread is not trying to completely destroy the ability... its not hard either for experienced players to see what is over-performing even if its only by a small margin.

I know Fengrush is a beast player but you can tell by the way he plays that its so easy for him to abuse the hell out of Dark Deal. Literally blowing all his stamina or health just to spam DD and be full again. He has spec'ed specifically for magicka regen so he can be the most annoying stam sorc alive. Always capable of streaking away to spam some more DD.

At this point instead of asking for a nerf, i want my damn siphoning caltrops back. Even that fails in comparison.

I like my training/ black rose combo for my dk little less stamina chunk of magica and health.

Flaminir

There are just SO many other things in cyrodiil far far far worse than this... not sure why its even an issue for debate until we get another 99 things fixed.

Shad0wfire99

Of all the things that need reworking, Dark Deal is probably not in the top 50.

leepalmer95

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Bandit1215 wrote: »

Well they can only cast it a few times before running out of magicka, and then they don't have any magicka for streak which is part of what makes them mobile.

They can cast it like 4 times? 5 times?

Then you use something called tri pots.

Then you let black rose go to work

Only high end pvp'ers use tripots regularly. Every other stam sorc will only have stam potions and be out of magicka. Once they use the tripot, they might get 2 or 3 dark deals before running dry.

If you nerf a skill, consider the pve implications too. Don't just think pvp for everything.

When i run maelstrom i rely on dark deal in between rounds or i start the next round with no stam an i'm dead. I don't have the time to grind cash or columbine to use 50+ tripots each vma run.

Think of the big picture before you cry nerf. Not everyone runs an op build like Fengrush.

Please tri pots are like water now.

What OP build?

I don't think i've ever seen a unique stam sorc build, every is the meta stam sorc of black rose/monster set/ agility/ msa weps

Because the suggested change would affect your msa run so much... your VO will sustain you just fine.

Fyi i got 100l tv stones in a hour, bought those alchemy sachels and got 400 columbine. Tri pots are so easy.

Using basic tri food you get like 4~ dark deals which is 20k. By the time you run out again you'll have a few more dark deals. a tri pots lets you use 3 more etc...

It gives too much and casts too quickly. There is no other sustain even close to it.

Flaminir

Every class has some stuff that the others don't... and unfortunately some people just want to complain about it without realizing there will never be balance, only tradeoffs.

(The following list far from exhaustive... just making a few examples).

A stam sorc doesn't have to focus on regen as much as long as they are happy that they can get potentially killed/stunned while using it & it takes away a skill slot.

DK's can sit there and flap wings and ignore pretty much every spell projectile coming at them.

NB's can disengage any fight with cloak and just vanish and then attack again from stealth with insane burst damage.

etc
etc
etc

as I already said... is DD strong? Yes obviously.
Is it the reason a stam sorc is killing you / directly stopping you killing them... No.

Just because a skill is strong and has a mechanic your class doesn't does NOT mean it needs to be nerfed.

leepalmer95

Flaminir wrote: »

Every class has some stuff that the others don't... and unfortunately some people just want to complain about it without realizing there will never be balance, only tradeoffs.

(The following list far from exhaustive... just making a few examples).

A stam sorc doesn't have to focus on regen as much as long as they are happy that they can get potentially killed/stunned while using it & it takes away a skill slot.

DK's can sit there and flap wings and ignore pretty much every spell projectile coming at them.

NB's can disengage any fight with cloak and just vanish and then attack again from stealth with insane burst damage.

etc
etc
etc

as I already said... is DD strong? Yes obviously.
Is it the reason a stam sorc is killing you / directly stopping you killing them... No.

Just because a skill is strong and has a mechanic your class doesn't does NOT mean it needs to be nerfed.

By doesn't have to focus you mean ignore completely right? Because that is what dark deal currently does for the class. Why bother with sustain when dark deal has it covered. Why not throw heavy on and focus everything you have into max damage.

Wings has it's works around and doesn't let dk's ignore and aspect of character building. Curses, fury, channels etc... Wings isn't even comparable to dark deal they aren't even the same skill.

Cloak is very broken at the moment and again why is this relevant to an OP broken sustain skill?

You should be comparing class sustain skills to dark deal. If you did you'd notice nothing even comes close.

Birdovic

Im not a fan of Dark deal or anything, but it is not the problem, that makes killing the stam Sorc hard, it just prolonges the fight, since the user isn't able to fight back at that moment(like shield spamming) and vulnerable to interrupts.

The main problem here is not dark deal, it's the ridiculous way of avoiding any damage with a 20% chance over a way too long duration while being able to fight back unharmed, combined with 100% dodge chance from rolling around again and again, which Stamina chars can do plenty of.

I'd prefer everyone to have acceptable self heals availaible as replace, and/or major evasion to be reworked (can only dodge X Attacks instead of all incoming, for instance)

Solariken

Before nerfing the skill outright, they should add a hefty slow to the player during the cast, exactly the same as the Templar Healing Ritual.

I'm fine with having to bash it, but I can never catch up to the slippery bastids.

It is also kind of odd that it doesn't cost magicka until the cast completes - I don't think other skills behave that way... They should probably look into that as well.

@Wrobel @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Flaminir

leepalmer95 wrote: »

You should be comparing class sustain skills to dark deal. If you did you'd notice nothing even comes close.

No I shouldn't.... that was the whole point of my post... every class is SUPPOSED to be different, ZOS have stated this over & over again....

they shouldn't all have something exactly the same... it doesn't matter that a stam sorc has this particular shiny toy and another class doesn't.... other classes have different shiny toys that make them what they are.

leepalmer95

Flaminir wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

You should be comparing class sustain skills to dark deal. If you did you'd notice nothing even comes close.

No I shouldn't.... that was the whole point of my post... every class is SUPPOSED to be different, ZOS have stated this over & over again....

they shouldn't all have something exactly the same... it doesn't matter that a stam sorc has this particular shiny toy and another class doesn't.... other classes have different shiny toys that make them what they are.

Who said to have anything exactly the same?

I said compare not duplicate.

All the class sustain skills work differently. Yet dark deal is still overperforming as a class sustain skill compared to the others.

Every class has a sustain skill:

Dk's helping hands
Templars repentance
Sorc dark deal
Nb siphoning strikes.

Now compare them all to dark deal.

Dark deal = 5k hp, 5k stamina, self cast when ever. Fast to cast.

Siphoning attacks, lasts 15s, gives 1k stam/mag per light or heavy attack. Only sustain if your offensive, useless if your line of sighting. Takes 5x light attacks to give as much as 1 dark deal.

Helping hands, 5% of a dk's max stamina, typical max stamina on heavy dk is 40k because of black rose. 1 cast is 2k. Takes 2.5x casts for the same as dark deal. As well as 2.5x the magicka.

Repentance gives stamina and hp back off a DEAD body. Only useful if there is plenty of bodies, only if you kill people. between 3.5k - 4.2k stamina depending on max stats. Cannon be cast on self when ever. Useless if running away or Line of sighting.

So dark deal gives more than everything, can be self cast, has a nice heal.

It's simply just giving more than everything else.

Non of the other classes can go full heavy and full dmg and sustain anywhere near the same as a stam sorc can which is infinitely. Stam nb's and templars just can't. Stam dk's kind of can but that requires a lot more heavy attacks, using ult as soon as you get it. Still not even close to the sustain of a stam sorc with dark deal in open pvp.