Pvp magika sorc what kinda builds are op right now

Izaki

Waffennacht wrote: »

@dpencil wouldn't you be disappointed if the answer was imperial physique?

@Waffennacht wouldn't you be surprised if it wasn't? Plenty of ways to stack max magicka. You probably just didn't put enough thought into it. Look harder
With Imperial Physique I'm sitting at 60k without inner light and only Bound Aegis btw. Its pretty OP in IC.

@psychotic13 you and I both know that having a huge magicka pool is so cool to the point where you never want to go back. It also solves every possible resource, damage and survivability issue a sorc can have.

Kutsuu

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

My critical hit damage modifier is 1.69 which is the base modifier of 1.5 + my points into Elfborn (66) = 1.69. So lets say someone has full impen and 52 points into resistant, which is a pretty common distribution, it will net them exactly 44% critical hit resistance. So my critical hits are hitting only 25% harder than normal hits right (1.69 - 0.44 = 1.25)? But I also have 48% crit chance. So the average tooltip damage increase is = 1.25 x 1.48 = 1.85. So over the course of the fight my abilities will be doing on average 1.85 more damage.

Alright, good post, but I really needed to point this out. You're doing the math backwards here. If you have a 25% increase in your damage 48% of the time, then you need to multiply that 125 by .48 to get your average damage which as you'll notice comes out to about 12% more average damage than if you weren't critting at all (1.12 in your nomenclature). The unknown factor here is shields that can't be crit, and what their uptime is.

Izaki

Kutsuu wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

My critical hit damage modifier is 1.69 which is the base modifier of 1.5 + my points into Elfborn (66) = 1.69. So lets say someone has full impen and 52 points into resistant, which is a pretty common distribution, it will net them exactly 44% critical hit resistance. So my critical hits are hitting only 25% harder than normal hits right (1.69 - 0.44 = 1.25)? But I also have 48% crit chance. So the average tooltip damage increase is = 1.25 x 1.48 = 1.85. So over the course of the fight my abilities will be doing on average 1.85 more damage.

Alright, good post, but I really needed to point this out. You're doing the math backwards here. If you have a 25% increase in your damage 48% of the time, then you need to multiply that 125 by .48 to get your average damage which as you'll notice comes out to about 12% more average damage than if you weren't critting at all (1.12 in your nomenclature). The unknown factor here is shields that can't be crit, and what their uptime is.

You're right I screwed up there. The actual formula is 1 + CHC x CHD right? So 1 + (0.25 x 0.48) = 1.12
Completely forget that the modifier is 0.69 and not 1.69. I'll edit my post

Yeah I was taking a basic heavy armor build with full impen, based on the common distribution of CPs. No point in taking in account shields when you're calculating penetration and crit anyway. This was just for the sake of showing that crit is actually important in PvP. After all, you know that since you gank

jroc699_burr

sooo with all these overlords or grandmaster mages can we please share the builds and yesssss traits and armour type are help ful i wanna pvp with my magika sorc again just not sure which routes to drive down with the new sets

Dracane

Always this debate.
Light armor is not viable for any build or class.

Light armor is the only armor that grants no benefit to healing. Medium armor increases weapon damage, which increases your healing done and heavy armor increases your healing taken.
Light armor offers no damage against damage shields and low resistance enemies.

Also, the regen is even lower than heavy armor regen.
I roll over any magicka build instantly in pvp and duels, it's not viable at all.
I admit, that I am still wearing light armor in pvp. Because I won't follow a meta.

Biro123

dpencil wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

For example, I do just fine on my magicka sorc with DW and 52k magicka in light armor, without a single impen piece.

@IzakiBrotheSs I don't understand how you can get 52k magicka without running Necropotence with a pet. There's only one set that gives a 3 max magicka boosts (which is Necropotence) and several that give 2 max magicka (like Spinners and Elegant), but not all of them make sense to run for a DW DD. Even assuming something like 5 spinners, 5 elegant (for overload I guess), 1 ilambris, 1 Infernal Guardian, Blue stat food, and having Bound Aegis, Inner Light, Structured Entropy, and Shooting Star on the front bar, the max magicka would still only be 50k. This would go down drastically on the back bar to more like 46k, assuming you're not dual wielding there or duplicating all the mage's guild skills. By contrast, the same skill setup and gear, except switching out Elegant for Necropotence with a pet would boost max magicka to 58k.

My usual Necropotence build sits at around 52-53k, using a staff, 3 piece willpower, and 2 piece Infernal Guardian.

I can't figure this out either. I made a spreadsheet a few weeks ago listing every set that gives a magicka bonus, calculating how much magicka per piece each set gives (for various amounts of pieces) and ranking them in order of mag magicka per piece. Unfortunately I'm working away this week so don't have access to it, but in a non-pet build, I couldn't work out a way to get more than 45k. I think all I didn't try(and couldn't work out) was the 3-piece jewellry set that gives a 4% boost

psychotic13

Dracane wrote: »

Always this debate.
Light armor is not viable for any build or class.

Light armor is the only armor that grants no benefit to healing. Medium armor increases weapon damage, which increases your healing done and heavy armor increases your healing taken.
Light armor offers no damage against damage shields and low resistance enemies.

Also, the regen is even lower than heavy armor regen.
I roll over any magicka build instantly in pvp and duels, it's not viable at all.
I admit, that I am still wearing light armor in pvp. Because I won't follow a meta.

That's a bit of a contradiction, and maybe more people feel the same way as you than you give them credit for? I wear light armor, and know of many other sorcs that also run light armor and wouldn't go without it. Yeah maybe it could do with a little something extra, but it's still the best choice for a Magicka Sorcerer

Biro123 wrote: »

dpencil wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

For example, I do just fine on my magicka sorc with DW and 52k magicka in light armor, without a single impen piece.

@IzakiBrotheSs I don't understand how you can get 52k magicka without running Necropotence with a pet. There's only one set that gives a 3 max magicka boosts (which is Necropotence) and several that give 2 max magicka (like Spinners and Elegant), but not all of them make sense to run for a DW DD. Even assuming something like 5 spinners, 5 elegant (for overload I guess), 1 ilambris, 1 Infernal Guardian, Blue stat food, and having Bound Aegis, Inner Light, Structured Entropy, and Shooting Star on the front bar, the max magicka would still only be 50k. This would go down drastically on the back bar to more like 46k, assuming you're not dual wielding there or duplicating all the mage's guild skills. By contrast, the same skill setup and gear, except switching out Elegant for Necropotence with a pet would boost max magicka to 58k.

My usual Necropotence build sits at around 52-53k, using a staff, 3 piece willpower, and 2 piece Infernal Guardian.

I can't figure this out either. I made a spreadsheet a few weeks ago listing every set that gives a magicka bonus, calculating how much magicka per piece each set gives (for various amounts of pieces) and ranking them in order of mag magicka per piece. Unfortunately I'm working away this week so don't have access to it, but in a non-pet build, I couldn't work out a way to get more than 45k. I think all I didn't try(and couldn't work out) was the 3-piece jewellry set that gives a 4% boost

Having more Magicka normally requires you to go DW for the extra set slot, and some people choose to go with no monster set and use 2 single pieces that give a Magicka bonus (grothdarr, infernal Guardian, Ilambris) then you need to make sure you have your undaunted passives, correct race, and use a skill or two that will give you some extra Max Magicka percentage.

Dracane

psychotic13 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Always this debate.
Light armor is not viable for any build or class.

Light armor is the only armor that grants no benefit to healing. Medium armor increases weapon damage, which increases your healing done and heavy armor increases your healing taken.
Light armor offers no damage against damage shields and low resistance enemies.

Also, the regen is even lower than heavy armor regen.
I roll over any magicka build instantly in pvp and duels, it's not viable at all.
I admit, that I am still wearing light armor in pvp. Because I won't follow a meta.

That's a bit of a contradiction, and maybe more people feel the same way as you than you give them credit for? I wear light armor, and know of many other sorcs that also run light armor and wouldn't go without it. Yeah maybe it could do with a little something extra, but it's still the best choice for a Magicka Sorcerer

Biro123 wrote: »

dpencil wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

For example, I do just fine on my magicka sorc with DW and 52k magicka in light armor, without a single impen piece.

@IzakiBrotheSs I don't understand how you can get 52k magicka without running Necropotence with a pet. There's only one set that gives a 3 max magicka boosts (which is Necropotence) and several that give 2 max magicka (like Spinners and Elegant), but not all of them make sense to run for a DW DD. Even assuming something like 5 spinners, 5 elegant (for overload I guess), 1 ilambris, 1 Infernal Guardian, Blue stat food, and having Bound Aegis, Inner Light, Structured Entropy, and Shooting Star on the front bar, the max magicka would still only be 50k. This would go down drastically on the back bar to more like 46k, assuming you're not dual wielding there or duplicating all the mage's guild skills. By contrast, the same skill setup and gear, except switching out Elegant for Necropotence with a pet would boost max magicka to 58k.

My usual Necropotence build sits at around 52-53k, using a staff, 3 piece willpower, and 2 piece Infernal Guardian.

I can't figure this out either. I made a spreadsheet a few weeks ago listing every set that gives a magicka bonus, calculating how much magicka per piece each set gives (for various amounts of pieces) and ranking them in order of mag magicka per piece. Unfortunately I'm working away this week so don't have access to it, but in a non-pet build, I couldn't work out a way to get more than 45k. I think all I didn't try(and couldn't work out) was the 3-piece jewellry set that gives a 4% boost

Having more Magicka normally requires you to go DW for the extra set slot, and some people choose to go with no monster set and use 2 single pieces that give a Magicka bonus (grothdarr, infernal Guardian, Ilambris) then you need to make sure you have your undaunted passives, correct race, and use a skill or two that will give you some extra Max Magicka percentage.

It's the worst choice for everyone. The ones I know (myself included) Only wear it for the 10% crit, besides that, it offers no benefits.

Light armor needs to buff damage shields instead of spell resistance and it needs a small spell damage buff on top of that spell penetration

Minalan

Dracane wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Always this debate.
Light armor is not viable for any build or class.

Light armor is the only armor that grants no benefit to healing. Medium armor increases weapon damage, which increases your healing done and heavy armor increases your healing taken.
Light armor offers no damage against damage shields and low resistance enemies.

Also, the regen is even lower than heavy armor regen.
I roll over any magicka build instantly in pvp and duels, it's not viable at all.
I admit, that I am still wearing light armor in pvp. Because I won't follow a meta.

That's a bit of a contradiction, and maybe more people feel the same way as you than you give them credit for? I wear light armor, and know of many other sorcs that also run light armor and wouldn't go without it. Yeah maybe it could do with a little something extra, but it's still the best choice for a Magicka Sorcerer

Biro123 wrote: »

dpencil wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

For example, I do just fine on my magicka sorc with DW and 52k magicka in light armor, without a single impen piece.

@IzakiBrotheSs I don't understand how you can get 52k magicka without running Necropotence with a pet. There's only one set that gives a 3 max magicka boosts (which is Necropotence) and several that give 2 max magicka (like Spinners and Elegant), but not all of them make sense to run for a DW DD. Even assuming something like 5 spinners, 5 elegant (for overload I guess), 1 ilambris, 1 Infernal Guardian, Blue stat food, and having Bound Aegis, Inner Light, Structured Entropy, and Shooting Star on the front bar, the max magicka would still only be 50k. This would go down drastically on the back bar to more like 46k, assuming you're not dual wielding there or duplicating all the mage's guild skills. By contrast, the same skill setup and gear, except switching out Elegant for Necropotence with a pet would boost max magicka to 58k.

My usual Necropotence build sits at around 52-53k, using a staff, 3 piece willpower, and 2 piece Infernal Guardian.

I can't figure this out either. I made a spreadsheet a few weeks ago listing every set that gives a magicka bonus, calculating how much magicka per piece each set gives (for various amounts of pieces) and ranking them in order of mag magicka per piece. Unfortunately I'm working away this week so don't have access to it, but in a non-pet build, I couldn't work out a way to get more than 45k. I think all I didn't try(and couldn't work out) was the 3-piece jewellry set that gives a 4% boost

Having more Magicka normally requires you to go DW for the extra set slot, and some people choose to go with no monster set and use 2 single pieces that give a Magicka bonus (grothdarr, infernal Guardian, Ilambris) then you need to make sure you have your undaunted passives, correct race, and use a skill or two that will give you some extra Max Magicka percentage.

It's the worst choice for everyone. The ones I know (myself included) Only wear it for the 10% crit, besides that, it offers no benefits.

Light armor needs to buff damage shields instead of spell resistance and it needs a small spell damage buff on top of that spell penetration

This. So much. Make it happen already.

psychotic13

Dracane wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Always this debate.
Light armor is not viable for any build or class.

Light armor is the only armor that grants no benefit to healing. Medium armor increases weapon damage, which increases your healing done and heavy armor increases your healing taken.
Light armor offers no damage against damage shields and low resistance enemies.

Also, the regen is even lower than heavy armor regen.
I roll over any magicka build instantly in pvp and duels, it's not viable at all.
I admit, that I am still wearing light armor in pvp. Because I won't follow a meta.

That's a bit of a contradiction, and maybe more people feel the same way as you than you give them credit for? I wear light armor, and know of many other sorcs that also run light armor and wouldn't go without it. Yeah maybe it could do with a little something extra, but it's still the best choice for a Magicka Sorcerer

Biro123 wrote: »

dpencil wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

For example, I do just fine on my magicka sorc with DW and 52k magicka in light armor, without a single impen piece.

@IzakiBrotheSs I don't understand how you can get 52k magicka without running Necropotence with a pet. There's only one set that gives a 3 max magicka boosts (which is Necropotence) and several that give 2 max magicka (like Spinners and Elegant), but not all of them make sense to run for a DW DD. Even assuming something like 5 spinners, 5 elegant (for overload I guess), 1 ilambris, 1 Infernal Guardian, Blue stat food, and having Bound Aegis, Inner Light, Structured Entropy, and Shooting Star on the front bar, the max magicka would still only be 50k. This would go down drastically on the back bar to more like 46k, assuming you're not dual wielding there or duplicating all the mage's guild skills. By contrast, the same skill setup and gear, except switching out Elegant for Necropotence with a pet would boost max magicka to 58k.

My usual Necropotence build sits at around 52-53k, using a staff, 3 piece willpower, and 2 piece Infernal Guardian.

I can't figure this out either. I made a spreadsheet a few weeks ago listing every set that gives a magicka bonus, calculating how much magicka per piece each set gives (for various amounts of pieces) and ranking them in order of mag magicka per piece. Unfortunately I'm working away this week so don't have access to it, but in a non-pet build, I couldn't work out a way to get more than 45k. I think all I didn't try(and couldn't work out) was the 3-piece jewellry set that gives a 4% boost

Having more Magicka normally requires you to go DW for the extra set slot, and some people choose to go with no monster set and use 2 single pieces that give a Magicka bonus (grothdarr, infernal Guardian, Ilambris) then you need to make sure you have your undaunted passives, correct race, and use a skill or two that will give you some extra Max Magicka percentage.

It's the worst choice for everyone. The ones I know (myself included) Only wear it for the 10% crit, besides that, it offers no benefits.

Light armor needs to buff damage shields instead of spell resistance and it needs a small spell damage buff on top of that spell penetration

It's not the worst choice, it's just other categories of armor have that extra something, but wouldn't be better for us to wear. I disagree we need spell damage cause the penetration makes up for that, some sort of bonus to shields yes, I can roll with that.

I personally think they should combine the reduction and regen passives (much like the medium armor windwalker passive) and then use that slot we gained to give us something to benefit shields.

Sheey

Even @Dracane says light armor need a buff and she is the defenetly the queen of this class.

Sheey

Since I use Heavy Armor on Magica Sorcerer I did win 90% of all duels and the ones who killed me couldn't beat me the next few times, beside dracane.

You guys can math what ever you like, overall damage on heavy is slightly higher against every type of armor. The overall sustain is around 2,5 x higher as if you wear LA.

I used LA for 2 1/4 year and run since 1/2 year non stop HA. Trust me.

jroc699_burr

what gear ar eu guys wearing in pvp for your high magika

Izaki

Dracane wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Always this debate.
Light armor is not viable for any build or class.

Light armor is the only armor that grants no benefit to healing. Medium armor increases weapon damage, which increases your healing done and heavy armor increases your healing taken.
Light armor offers no damage against damage shields and low resistance enemies.

Also, the regen is even lower than heavy armor regen.
I roll over any magicka build instantly in pvp and duels, it's not viable at all.
I admit, that I am still wearing light armor in pvp. Because I won't follow a meta.

That's a bit of a contradiction, and maybe more people feel the same way as you than you give them credit for? I wear light armor, and know of many other sorcs that also run light armor and wouldn't go without it. Yeah maybe it could do with a little something extra, but it's still the best choice for a Magicka Sorcerer

Biro123 wrote: »

dpencil wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

For example, I do just fine on my magicka sorc with DW and 52k magicka in light armor, without a single impen piece.

@IzakiBrotheSs I don't understand how you can get 52k magicka without running Necropotence with a pet. There's only one set that gives a 3 max magicka boosts (which is Necropotence) and several that give 2 max magicka (like Spinners and Elegant), but not all of them make sense to run for a DW DD. Even assuming something like 5 spinners, 5 elegant (for overload I guess), 1 ilambris, 1 Infernal Guardian, Blue stat food, and having Bound Aegis, Inner Light, Structured Entropy, and Shooting Star on the front bar, the max magicka would still only be 50k. This would go down drastically on the back bar to more like 46k, assuming you're not dual wielding there or duplicating all the mage's guild skills. By contrast, the same skill setup and gear, except switching out Elegant for Necropotence with a pet would boost max magicka to 58k.

My usual Necropotence build sits at around 52-53k, using a staff, 3 piece willpower, and 2 piece Infernal Guardian.

I can't figure this out either. I made a spreadsheet a few weeks ago listing every set that gives a magicka bonus, calculating how much magicka per piece each set gives (for various amounts of pieces) and ranking them in order of mag magicka per piece. Unfortunately I'm working away this week so don't have access to it, but in a non-pet build, I couldn't work out a way to get more than 45k. I think all I didn't try(and couldn't work out) was the 3-piece jewellry set that gives a 4% boost

Having more Magicka normally requires you to go DW for the extra set slot, and some people choose to go with no monster set and use 2 single pieces that give a Magicka bonus (grothdarr, infernal Guardian, Ilambris) then you need to make sure you have your undaunted passives, correct race, and use a skill or two that will give you some extra Max Magicka percentage.

It's the worst choice for everyone. The ones I know (myself included) Only wear it for the 10% crit, besides that, it offers no benefits.

Light armor needs to buff damage shields instead of spell resistance and it needs a small spell damage buff on top of that spell penetration

Did you even read what I wrote? If not you should.

Sheey wrote: »

Since I use Heavy Armor on Magica Sorcerer I did win 90% of all duels and the ones who killed me couldn't beat me the next few times, beside dracane.

You guys can math what ever you like, overall damage on heavy is slightly higher against every type of armor. The overall sustain is around 2,5 x higher as if you wear LA.

I used LA for 2 1/4 year and run since 1/2 year non stop HA. Trust me.

I don't trust you blindly no. I run light armor and I'm fine. All the best sorcs I've seen run light armor. And instead of just claiming you're the best sorc in the game or in pc eu, you might want to actually take in some advice. Apparently, grand overlord doesn't mean much after all. I just made a long as post for you, so you could understand the math behind this stuff and instead you just say "I know what I'm doing, trust me" when you clearly don't. Read that stuff take it in, look at some guys who actually found all of these formulas. And if maths prove that heavy armor isn't better in terms of sustain or damage, then it clearly isn't. In a video game there's no magic or exceptions, there's maths, coding and formulas. So yeah, sure run with your heavy armor sorc build, but don't claim its the best.

There is no "king" or "queen" of a class. Especially, that the only thing that the "queen" does, is complain about how bad magicka sorcerers are and how much they are in need of a buff. Yes, @Dracane you know what I'm talking about, every time I see you on a sorcerer thread, you just trash the current state of the class and say that its unplayable or whatnot. Someone who is really good at a class, is someone who can actually play with the things that are already in the game, someone who doesn't need buffs to play his/her favorite class. Asking for buffs only shows that you can't play a specific play style, thus completely contradicting the whole royalty thing.

Izaki

jroc699_burr wrote: »

what gear ar eu guys wearing in pvp for your high magika

Think about it. Lots of sets with magicka boni. Lots of skills that boost your max magicka. Mage mundus (I'm thinking of switching to the Shadow personally though). Bi-stat food. Lots of stuff out there.

Kinda like this guy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaHh9iiyM8Y

Dracane

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Always this debate.
Light armor is not viable for any build or class.

Light armor is the only armor that grants no benefit to healing. Medium armor increases weapon damage, which increases your healing done and heavy armor increases your healing taken.
Light armor offers no damage against damage shields and low resistance enemies.

Also, the regen is even lower than heavy armor regen.
I roll over any magicka build instantly in pvp and duels, it's not viable at all.
I admit, that I am still wearing light armor in pvp. Because I won't follow a meta.

That's a bit of a contradiction, and maybe more people feel the same way as you than you give them credit for? I wear light armor, and know of many other sorcs that also run light armor and wouldn't go without it. Yeah maybe it could do with a little something extra, but it's still the best choice for a Magicka Sorcerer

Biro123 wrote: »

dpencil wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

For example, I do just fine on my magicka sorc with DW and 52k magicka in light armor, without a single impen piece.

@IzakiBrotheSs I don't understand how you can get 52k magicka without running Necropotence with a pet. There's only one set that gives a 3 max magicka boosts (which is Necropotence) and several that give 2 max magicka (like Spinners and Elegant), but not all of them make sense to run for a DW DD. Even assuming something like 5 spinners, 5 elegant (for overload I guess), 1 ilambris, 1 Infernal Guardian, Blue stat food, and having Bound Aegis, Inner Light, Structured Entropy, and Shooting Star on the front bar, the max magicka would still only be 50k. This would go down drastically on the back bar to more like 46k, assuming you're not dual wielding there or duplicating all the mage's guild skills. By contrast, the same skill setup and gear, except switching out Elegant for Necropotence with a pet would boost max magicka to 58k.

My usual Necropotence build sits at around 52-53k, using a staff, 3 piece willpower, and 2 piece Infernal Guardian.

I can't figure this out either. I made a spreadsheet a few weeks ago listing every set that gives a magicka bonus, calculating how much magicka per piece each set gives (for various amounts of pieces) and ranking them in order of mag magicka per piece. Unfortunately I'm working away this week so don't have access to it, but in a non-pet build, I couldn't work out a way to get more than 45k. I think all I didn't try(and couldn't work out) was the 3-piece jewellry set that gives a 4% boost

Having more Magicka normally requires you to go DW for the extra set slot, and some people choose to go with no monster set and use 2 single pieces that give a Magicka bonus (grothdarr, infernal Guardian, Ilambris) then you need to make sure you have your undaunted passives, correct race, and use a skill or two that will give you some extra Max Magicka percentage.

It's the worst choice for everyone. The ones I know (myself included) Only wear it for the 10% crit, besides that, it offers no benefits.

Light armor needs to buff damage shields instead of spell resistance and it needs a small spell damage buff on top of that spell penetration

Did you even read what I wrote? If not you should.

Sheey wrote: »

Since I use Heavy Armor on Magica Sorcerer I did win 90% of all duels and the ones who killed me couldn't beat me the next few times, beside dracane.

You guys can math what ever you like, overall damage on heavy is slightly higher against every type of armor. The overall sustain is around 2,5 x higher as if you wear LA.

I used LA for 2 1/4 year and run since 1/2 year non stop HA. Trust me.

I don't trust you blindly no. I run light armor and I'm fine. All the best sorcs I've seen run light armor. And instead of just claiming you're the best sorc in the game or in pc eu, you might want to actually take in some advice. Apparently, grand overlord doesn't mean much after all. I just made a long as post for you, so you could understand the math behind this stuff and instead you just say "I know what I'm doing, trust me" when you clearly don't. Read that stuff take it in, look at some guys who actually found all of these formulas. And if maths prove that heavy armor isn't better in terms of sustain or damage, then it clearly isn't. In a video game there's no magic or exceptions, there's maths, coding and formulas. So yeah, sure run with your heavy armor sorc build, but don't claim its the best.

There is no "king" or "queen" of a class. Especially, that the only thing that the "queen" does, is complain about how bad magicka sorcerers are and how much they are in need of a buff. Yes, @Dracane you know what I'm talking about, every time I see you on a sorcerer thread, you just trash the current state of the class and say that its unplayable or whatnot. Someone who is really good at a class, is someone who can actually play with the things that are already in the game, someone who doesn't need buffs to play his/her favorite class. Asking for buffs only shows that you can't play a specific play style, thus completely contradicting the whole royalty thing.

I never said it's unplayable. If it was, then I wouldn't be playing it anymore.
But it's the worst class of all, in all aspects of the game.

Just because I'm good with this class, doesn't mean that it's a good class. I'm playing it since 3 years, like Shey, we know our stuff. But it's pretty much a pro-exclusive class. If you are no master at this class, you will be terrible.
You might be satisfied by your success @IzakiBrotheSs But trust me, it's an illusion. You may be good for your standards, but not for our standards.

Izaki

Dracane wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Always this debate.
Light armor is not viable for any build or class.

Light armor is the only armor that grants no benefit to healing. Medium armor increases weapon damage, which increases your healing done and heavy armor increases your healing taken.
Light armor offers no damage against damage shields and low resistance enemies.

Also, the regen is even lower than heavy armor regen.
I roll over any magicka build instantly in pvp and duels, it's not viable at all.
I admit, that I am still wearing light armor in pvp. Because I won't follow a meta.

That's a bit of a contradiction, and maybe more people feel the same way as you than you give them credit for? I wear light armor, and know of many other sorcs that also run light armor and wouldn't go without it. Yeah maybe it could do with a little something extra, but it's still the best choice for a Magicka Sorcerer

Biro123 wrote: »

dpencil wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

For example, I do just fine on my magicka sorc with DW and 52k magicka in light armor, without a single impen piece.

@IzakiBrotheSs I don't understand how you can get 52k magicka without running Necropotence with a pet. There's only one set that gives a 3 max magicka boosts (which is Necropotence) and several that give 2 max magicka (like Spinners and Elegant), but not all of them make sense to run for a DW DD. Even assuming something like 5 spinners, 5 elegant (for overload I guess), 1 ilambris, 1 Infernal Guardian, Blue stat food, and having Bound Aegis, Inner Light, Structured Entropy, and Shooting Star on the front bar, the max magicka would still only be 50k. This would go down drastically on the back bar to more like 46k, assuming you're not dual wielding there or duplicating all the mage's guild skills. By contrast, the same skill setup and gear, except switching out Elegant for Necropotence with a pet would boost max magicka to 58k.

My usual Necropotence build sits at around 52-53k, using a staff, 3 piece willpower, and 2 piece Infernal Guardian.

I can't figure this out either. I made a spreadsheet a few weeks ago listing every set that gives a magicka bonus, calculating how much magicka per piece each set gives (for various amounts of pieces) and ranking them in order of mag magicka per piece. Unfortunately I'm working away this week so don't have access to it, but in a non-pet build, I couldn't work out a way to get more than 45k. I think all I didn't try(and couldn't work out) was the 3-piece jewellry set that gives a 4% boost

Having more Magicka normally requires you to go DW for the extra set slot, and some people choose to go with no monster set and use 2 single pieces that give a Magicka bonus (grothdarr, infernal Guardian, Ilambris) then you need to make sure you have your undaunted passives, correct race, and use a skill or two that will give you some extra Max Magicka percentage.

It's the worst choice for everyone. The ones I know (myself included) Only wear it for the 10% crit, besides that, it offers no benefits.

Light armor needs to buff damage shields instead of spell resistance and it needs a small spell damage buff on top of that spell penetration

Did you even read what I wrote? If not you should.

Sheey wrote: »

Since I use Heavy Armor on Magica Sorcerer I did win 90% of all duels and the ones who killed me couldn't beat me the next few times, beside dracane.

You guys can math what ever you like, overall damage on heavy is slightly higher against every type of armor. The overall sustain is around 2,5 x higher as if you wear LA.

I used LA for 2 1/4 year and run since 1/2 year non stop HA. Trust me.

I don't trust you blindly no. I run light armor and I'm fine. All the best sorcs I've seen run light armor. And instead of just claiming you're the best sorc in the game or in pc eu, you might want to actually take in some advice. Apparently, grand overlord doesn't mean much after all. I just made a long as post for you, so you could understand the math behind this stuff and instead you just say "I know what I'm doing, trust me" when you clearly don't. Read that stuff take it in, look at some guys who actually found all of these formulas. And if maths prove that heavy armor isn't better in terms of sustain or damage, then it clearly isn't. In a video game there's no magic or exceptions, there's maths, coding and formulas. So yeah, sure run with your heavy armor sorc build, but don't claim its the best.

There is no "king" or "queen" of a class. Especially, that the only thing that the "queen" does, is complain about how bad magicka sorcerers are and how much they are in need of a buff. Yes, @Dracane you know what I'm talking about, every time I see you on a sorcerer thread, you just trash the current state of the class and say that its unplayable or whatnot. Someone who is really good at a class, is someone who can actually play with the things that are already in the game, someone who doesn't need buffs to play his/her favorite class. Asking for buffs only shows that you can't play a specific play style, thus completely contradicting the whole royalty thing.

I never said it's unplayable. If it was, then I wouldn't be playing it anymore.
But it's the worst class of all, in all aspects of the game.

Just because I'm good with this class, doesn't mean that it's a good class. I'm playing it since 3 years, like Shey, we know our stuff. But it's pretty much a pro-exclusive class. If you are no master at this class, you will be terrible.
You might be satisfied by your success @IzakiBrotheSs But trust me, it's an illusion. You may be good for your standards, but not for our standards.

FYI magicka sorcerers are the best magicka DPS in trials along with magicka Templars (depends on the fight). Stamina DKs might pull more in single target, but no one plays stamina in trials anyway. So you're wrong right off the bat, this class is not the worst in all aspects of the game. Also, last time I checked, magicka DKs had a harder time in PvP. And magicka NBs for that matter. So that leaves Sorcs on the second best spot? Yeah okay. So yeah, you do trash the class at every opportunity, without really backing it up. It doesn't make you look good you know that, right? Just shows that you don't play all aspects of the game.
I'm wondering how you guys know your stuff and end up denying the fact that light armor is superior to heavy on a magicka sorcerer. The only possible conclusion one might come up with is... well that maybe you guys aren't as good as you think you are. Questioning yourself is always good, so is taking advice and looking at maths. Confidence is a good quality, but arrogance isn't and sometimes doubt and external help will lead to better results. C'est la vie.
Notice that unlike you, I never claimed I'm good or the best. I said I'm doing fine. I can 1vX and duel just fine. What exactly are your standards? Playing never-ending duels where people forfeit because its plain boring? 1vXing a zerg in a small group? 1vXing a zerg solo? Thing is there aren't many standards in PvP apart from having fun. The only thing that is competitive in PvP is getting emp, and even that is more or less easily achieved with the right connections. If someone can do the same things as you, means that there are no illusions, he's on the same playing field. Maybe his head simply isn't a swollen over a video game.
What's with all this "trust me, I know" stuff? Why should I? You didn't give me a reason to.

Dracane

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Always this debate.
Light armor is not viable for any build or class.

Light armor is the only armor that grants no benefit to healing. Medium armor increases weapon damage, which increases your healing done and heavy armor increases your healing taken.
Light armor offers no damage against damage shields and low resistance enemies.

Also, the regen is even lower than heavy armor regen.
I roll over any magicka build instantly in pvp and duels, it's not viable at all.
I admit, that I am still wearing light armor in pvp. Because I won't follow a meta.

That's a bit of a contradiction, and maybe more people feel the same way as you than you give them credit for? I wear light armor, and know of many other sorcs that also run light armor and wouldn't go without it. Yeah maybe it could do with a little something extra, but it's still the best choice for a Magicka Sorcerer

Biro123 wrote: »

dpencil wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

For example, I do just fine on my magicka sorc with DW and 52k magicka in light armor, without a single impen piece.

@IzakiBrotheSs I don't understand how you can get 52k magicka without running Necropotence with a pet. There's only one set that gives a 3 max magicka boosts (which is Necropotence) and several that give 2 max magicka (like Spinners and Elegant), but not all of them make sense to run for a DW DD. Even assuming something like 5 spinners, 5 elegant (for overload I guess), 1 ilambris, 1 Infernal Guardian, Blue stat food, and having Bound Aegis, Inner Light, Structured Entropy, and Shooting Star on the front bar, the max magicka would still only be 50k. This would go down drastically on the back bar to more like 46k, assuming you're not dual wielding there or duplicating all the mage's guild skills. By contrast, the same skill setup and gear, except switching out Elegant for Necropotence with a pet would boost max magicka to 58k.

My usual Necropotence build sits at around 52-53k, using a staff, 3 piece willpower, and 2 piece Infernal Guardian.

I can't figure this out either. I made a spreadsheet a few weeks ago listing every set that gives a magicka bonus, calculating how much magicka per piece each set gives (for various amounts of pieces) and ranking them in order of mag magicka per piece. Unfortunately I'm working away this week so don't have access to it, but in a non-pet build, I couldn't work out a way to get more than 45k. I think all I didn't try(and couldn't work out) was the 3-piece jewellry set that gives a 4% boost

Having more Magicka normally requires you to go DW for the extra set slot, and some people choose to go with no monster set and use 2 single pieces that give a Magicka bonus (grothdarr, infernal Guardian, Ilambris) then you need to make sure you have your undaunted passives, correct race, and use a skill or two that will give you some extra Max Magicka percentage.

It's the worst choice for everyone. The ones I know (myself included) Only wear it for the 10% crit, besides that, it offers no benefits.

Light armor needs to buff damage shields instead of spell resistance and it needs a small spell damage buff on top of that spell penetration

Did you even read what I wrote? If not you should.

Sheey wrote: »

Since I use Heavy Armor on Magica Sorcerer I did win 90% of all duels and the ones who killed me couldn't beat me the next few times, beside dracane.

You guys can math what ever you like, overall damage on heavy is slightly higher against every type of armor. The overall sustain is around 2,5 x higher as if you wear LA.

I used LA for 2 1/4 year and run since 1/2 year non stop HA. Trust me.

I don't trust you blindly no. I run light armor and I'm fine. All the best sorcs I've seen run light armor. And instead of just claiming you're the best sorc in the game or in pc eu, you might want to actually take in some advice. Apparently, grand overlord doesn't mean much after all. I just made a long as post for you, so you could understand the math behind this stuff and instead you just say "I know what I'm doing, trust me" when you clearly don't. Read that stuff take it in, look at some guys who actually found all of these formulas. And if maths prove that heavy armor isn't better in terms of sustain or damage, then it clearly isn't. In a video game there's no magic or exceptions, there's maths, coding and formulas. So yeah, sure run with your heavy armor sorc build, but don't claim its the best.

There is no "king" or "queen" of a class. Especially, that the only thing that the "queen" does, is complain about how bad magicka sorcerers are and how much they are in need of a buff. Yes, @Dracane you know what I'm talking about, every time I see you on a sorcerer thread, you just trash the current state of the class and say that its unplayable or whatnot. Someone who is really good at a class, is someone who can actually play with the things that are already in the game, someone who doesn't need buffs to play his/her favorite class. Asking for buffs only shows that you can't play a specific play style, thus completely contradicting the whole royalty thing.

I never said it's unplayable. If it was, then I wouldn't be playing it anymore.
But it's the worst class of all, in all aspects of the game.

Just because I'm good with this class, doesn't mean that it's a good class. I'm playing it since 3 years, like Shey, we know our stuff. But it's pretty much a pro-exclusive class. If you are no master at this class, you will be terrible.
You might be satisfied by your success @IzakiBrotheSs But trust me, it's an illusion. You may be good for your standards, but not for our standards.

FYI magicka sorcerers are the best magicka DPS in trials along with magicka Templars (depends on the fight). Stamina DKs might pull more in single target, but no one plays stamina in trials anyway. So you're wrong right off the bat, this class is not the worst in all aspects of the game. Also, last time I checked, magicka DKs had a harder time in PvP. And magicka NBs for that matter. So that leaves Sorcs on the second best spot? Yeah okay. So yeah, you do trash the class at every opportunity, without really backing it up. It doesn't make you look good you know that, right? Just shows that you don't play all aspects of the game.
I'm wondering how you guys know your stuff and end up denying the fact that light armor is superior to heavy on a magicka sorcerer. The only possible conclusion one might come up with is... well that maybe you guys aren't as good as you think you are. Questioning yourself is always good, so is taking advice and looking at maths. Confidence is a good quality, but arrogance isn't and sometimes doubt and external help will lead to better results. C'est la vie.
Notice that unlike you, I never claimed I'm good or the best. I said I'm doing fine. I can 1vX and duel just fine. What exactly are your standards? Playing never-ending duels where people forfeit because its plain boring? 1vXing a zerg in a small group? 1vXing a zerg solo? Thing is there aren't many standards in PvP apart from having fun. The only thing that is competitive in PvP is getting emp, and even that is more or less easily achieved with the right connections. If someone can do the same things as you, means that there are no illusions, he's on the same playing field. Maybe his head simply isn't a swollen over a video game.
What's with all this "trust me, I know" stuff? Why should I? You didn't give me a reason to.

Oh please forgive, me Oh great Best Sorcerer of the World ! How was I foolish enough to express my opinion after 3 laughable years of playing Magicka Sorcerer non stop-

Accept my apologize, you are the best of all. Teach use how to Sorc please.
(and one side note, Shey claimed I'm the best, not I did. I think I'm low middle field at best)

Izaki

Dracane wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Always this debate.
Light armor is not viable for any build or class.

Light armor is the only armor that grants no benefit to healing. Medium armor increases weapon damage, which increases your healing done and heavy armor increases your healing taken.
Light armor offers no damage against damage shields and low resistance enemies.

Also, the regen is even lower than heavy armor regen.
I roll over any magicka build instantly in pvp and duels, it's not viable at all.
I admit, that I am still wearing light armor in pvp. Because I won't follow a meta.

That's a bit of a contradiction, and maybe more people feel the same way as you than you give them credit for? I wear light armor, and know of many other sorcs that also run light armor and wouldn't go without it. Yeah maybe it could do with a little something extra, but it's still the best choice for a Magicka Sorcerer

Biro123 wrote: »

dpencil wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

For example, I do just fine on my magicka sorc with DW and 52k magicka in light armor, without a single impen piece.

@IzakiBrotheSs I don't understand how you can get 52k magicka without running Necropotence with a pet. There's only one set that gives a 3 max magicka boosts (which is Necropotence) and several that give 2 max magicka (like Spinners and Elegant), but not all of them make sense to run for a DW DD. Even assuming something like 5 spinners, 5 elegant (for overload I guess), 1 ilambris, 1 Infernal Guardian, Blue stat food, and having Bound Aegis, Inner Light, Structured Entropy, and Shooting Star on the front bar, the max magicka would still only be 50k. This would go down drastically on the back bar to more like 46k, assuming you're not dual wielding there or duplicating all the mage's guild skills. By contrast, the same skill setup and gear, except switching out Elegant for Necropotence with a pet would boost max magicka to 58k.

My usual Necropotence build sits at around 52-53k, using a staff, 3 piece willpower, and 2 piece Infernal Guardian.

I can't figure this out either. I made a spreadsheet a few weeks ago listing every set that gives a magicka bonus, calculating how much magicka per piece each set gives (for various amounts of pieces) and ranking them in order of mag magicka per piece. Unfortunately I'm working away this week so don't have access to it, but in a non-pet build, I couldn't work out a way to get more than 45k. I think all I didn't try(and couldn't work out) was the 3-piece jewellry set that gives a 4% boost

Having more Magicka normally requires you to go DW for the extra set slot, and some people choose to go with no monster set and use 2 single pieces that give a Magicka bonus (grothdarr, infernal Guardian, Ilambris) then you need to make sure you have your undaunted passives, correct race, and use a skill or two that will give you some extra Max Magicka percentage.

It's the worst choice for everyone. The ones I know (myself included) Only wear it for the 10% crit, besides that, it offers no benefits.

Light armor needs to buff damage shields instead of spell resistance and it needs a small spell damage buff on top of that spell penetration

Did you even read what I wrote? If not you should.

Sheey wrote: »

Since I use Heavy Armor on Magica Sorcerer I did win 90% of all duels and the ones who killed me couldn't beat me the next few times, beside dracane.

You guys can math what ever you like, overall damage on heavy is slightly higher against every type of armor. The overall sustain is around 2,5 x higher as if you wear LA.

I used LA for 2 1/4 year and run since 1/2 year non stop HA. Trust me.

I don't trust you blindly no. I run light armor and I'm fine. All the best sorcs I've seen run light armor. And instead of just claiming you're the best sorc in the game or in pc eu, you might want to actually take in some advice. Apparently, grand overlord doesn't mean much after all. I just made a long as post for you, so you could understand the math behind this stuff and instead you just say "I know what I'm doing, trust me" when you clearly don't. Read that stuff take it in, look at some guys who actually found all of these formulas. And if maths prove that heavy armor isn't better in terms of sustain or damage, then it clearly isn't. In a video game there's no magic or exceptions, there's maths, coding and formulas. So yeah, sure run with your heavy armor sorc build, but don't claim its the best.

There is no "king" or "queen" of a class. Especially, that the only thing that the "queen" does, is complain about how bad magicka sorcerers are and how much they are in need of a buff. Yes, @Dracane you know what I'm talking about, every time I see you on a sorcerer thread, you just trash the current state of the class and say that its unplayable or whatnot. Someone who is really good at a class, is someone who can actually play with the things that are already in the game, someone who doesn't need buffs to play his/her favorite class. Asking for buffs only shows that you can't play a specific play style, thus completely contradicting the whole royalty thing.

I never said it's unplayable. If it was, then I wouldn't be playing it anymore.
But it's the worst class of all, in all aspects of the game.

Just because I'm good with this class, doesn't mean that it's a good class. I'm playing it since 3 years, like Shey, we know our stuff. But it's pretty much a pro-exclusive class. If you are no master at this class, you will be terrible.
You might be satisfied by your success @IzakiBrotheSs But trust me, it's an illusion. You may be good for your standards, but not for our standards.

FYI magicka sorcerers are the best magicka DPS in trials along with magicka Templars (depends on the fight). Stamina DKs might pull more in single target, but no one plays stamina in trials anyway. So you're wrong right off the bat, this class is not the worst in all aspects of the game. Also, last time I checked, magicka DKs had a harder time in PvP. And magicka NBs for that matter. So that leaves Sorcs on the second best spot? Yeah okay. So yeah, you do trash the class at every opportunity, without really backing it up. It doesn't make you look good you know that, right? Just shows that you don't play all aspects of the game.
I'm wondering how you guys know your stuff and end up denying the fact that light armor is superior to heavy on a magicka sorcerer. The only possible conclusion one might come up with is... well that maybe you guys aren't as good as you think you are. Questioning yourself is always good, so is taking advice and looking at maths. Confidence is a good quality, but arrogance isn't and sometimes doubt and external help will lead to better results. C'est la vie.
Notice that unlike you, I never claimed I'm good or the best. I said I'm doing fine. I can 1vX and duel just fine. What exactly are your standards? Playing never-ending duels where people forfeit because its plain boring? 1vXing a zerg in a small group? 1vXing a zerg solo? Thing is there aren't many standards in PvP apart from having fun. The only thing that is competitive in PvP is getting emp, and even that is more or less easily achieved with the right connections. If someone can do the same things as you, means that there are no illusions, he's on the same playing field. Maybe his head simply isn't a swollen over a video game.
What's with all this "trust me, I know" stuff? Why should I? You didn't give me a reason to.

Oh please forgive, me Oh great Best Sorcerer of the World ! How was I foolish enough to express my opinion after 3 laughable years of playing Magicka Sorcerer non stop-

Accept my apologize, you are the best of all. Teach use how to Sorc please.

So that's your conclusion? Childish indeed.

Dracane

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Always this debate.
Light armor is not viable for any build or class.

Light armor is the only armor that grants no benefit to healing. Medium armor increases weapon damage, which increases your healing done and heavy armor increases your healing taken.
Light armor offers no damage against damage shields and low resistance enemies.

Also, the regen is even lower than heavy armor regen.
I roll over any magicka build instantly in pvp and duels, it's not viable at all.
I admit, that I am still wearing light armor in pvp. Because I won't follow a meta.

That's a bit of a contradiction, and maybe more people feel the same way as you than you give them credit for? I wear light armor, and know of many other sorcs that also run light armor and wouldn't go without it. Yeah maybe it could do with a little something extra, but it's still the best choice for a Magicka Sorcerer

Biro123 wrote: »

dpencil wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

For example, I do just fine on my magicka sorc with DW and 52k magicka in light armor, without a single impen piece.

@IzakiBrotheSs I don't understand how you can get 52k magicka without running Necropotence with a pet. There's only one set that gives a 3 max magicka boosts (which is Necropotence) and several that give 2 max magicka (like Spinners and Elegant), but not all of them make sense to run for a DW DD. Even assuming something like 5 spinners, 5 elegant (for overload I guess), 1 ilambris, 1 Infernal Guardian, Blue stat food, and having Bound Aegis, Inner Light, Structured Entropy, and Shooting Star on the front bar, the max magicka would still only be 50k. This would go down drastically on the back bar to more like 46k, assuming you're not dual wielding there or duplicating all the mage's guild skills. By contrast, the same skill setup and gear, except switching out Elegant for Necropotence with a pet would boost max magicka to 58k.

My usual Necropotence build sits at around 52-53k, using a staff, 3 piece willpower, and 2 piece Infernal Guardian.

I can't figure this out either. I made a spreadsheet a few weeks ago listing every set that gives a magicka bonus, calculating how much magicka per piece each set gives (for various amounts of pieces) and ranking them in order of mag magicka per piece. Unfortunately I'm working away this week so don't have access to it, but in a non-pet build, I couldn't work out a way to get more than 45k. I think all I didn't try(and couldn't work out) was the 3-piece jewellry set that gives a 4% boost

Having more Magicka normally requires you to go DW for the extra set slot, and some people choose to go with no monster set and use 2 single pieces that give a Magicka bonus (grothdarr, infernal Guardian, Ilambris) then you need to make sure you have your undaunted passives, correct race, and use a skill or two that will give you some extra Max Magicka percentage.

It's the worst choice for everyone. The ones I know (myself included) Only wear it for the 10% crit, besides that, it offers no benefits.

Light armor needs to buff damage shields instead of spell resistance and it needs a small spell damage buff on top of that spell penetration

Did you even read what I wrote? If not you should.

Sheey wrote: »

Since I use Heavy Armor on Magica Sorcerer I did win 90% of all duels and the ones who killed me couldn't beat me the next few times, beside dracane.

You guys can math what ever you like, overall damage on heavy is slightly higher against every type of armor. The overall sustain is around 2,5 x higher as if you wear LA.

I used LA for 2 1/4 year and run since 1/2 year non stop HA. Trust me.

I don't trust you blindly no. I run light armor and I'm fine. All the best sorcs I've seen run light armor. And instead of just claiming you're the best sorc in the game or in pc eu, you might want to actually take in some advice. Apparently, grand overlord doesn't mean much after all. I just made a long as post for you, so you could understand the math behind this stuff and instead you just say "I know what I'm doing, trust me" when you clearly don't. Read that stuff take it in, look at some guys who actually found all of these formulas. And if maths prove that heavy armor isn't better in terms of sustain or damage, then it clearly isn't. In a video game there's no magic or exceptions, there's maths, coding and formulas. So yeah, sure run with your heavy armor sorc build, but don't claim its the best.

There is no "king" or "queen" of a class. Especially, that the only thing that the "queen" does, is complain about how bad magicka sorcerers are and how much they are in need of a buff. Yes, @Dracane you know what I'm talking about, every time I see you on a sorcerer thread, you just trash the current state of the class and say that its unplayable or whatnot. Someone who is really good at a class, is someone who can actually play with the things that are already in the game, someone who doesn't need buffs to play his/her favorite class. Asking for buffs only shows that you can't play a specific play style, thus completely contradicting the whole royalty thing.

I never said it's unplayable. If it was, then I wouldn't be playing it anymore.
But it's the worst class of all, in all aspects of the game.

Just because I'm good with this class, doesn't mean that it's a good class. I'm playing it since 3 years, like Shey, we know our stuff. But it's pretty much a pro-exclusive class. If you are no master at this class, you will be terrible.
You might be satisfied by your success @IzakiBrotheSs But trust me, it's an illusion. You may be good for your standards, but not for our standards.

FYI magicka sorcerers are the best magicka DPS in trials along with magicka Templars (depends on the fight). Stamina DKs might pull more in single target, but no one plays stamina in trials anyway. So you're wrong right off the bat, this class is not the worst in all aspects of the game. Also, last time I checked, magicka DKs had a harder time in PvP. And magicka NBs for that matter. So that leaves Sorcs on the second best spot? Yeah okay. So yeah, you do trash the class at every opportunity, without really backing it up. It doesn't make you look good you know that, right? Just shows that you don't play all aspects of the game.
I'm wondering how you guys know your stuff and end up denying the fact that light armor is superior to heavy on a magicka sorcerer. The only possible conclusion one might come up with is... well that maybe you guys aren't as good as you think you are. Questioning yourself is always good, so is taking advice and looking at maths. Confidence is a good quality, but arrogance isn't and sometimes doubt and external help will lead to better results. C'est la vie.
Notice that unlike you, I never claimed I'm good or the best. I said I'm doing fine. I can 1vX and duel just fine. What exactly are your standards? Playing never-ending duels where people forfeit because its plain boring? 1vXing a zerg in a small group? 1vXing a zerg solo? Thing is there aren't many standards in PvP apart from having fun. The only thing that is competitive in PvP is getting emp, and even that is more or less easily achieved with the right connections. If someone can do the same things as you, means that there are no illusions, he's on the same playing field. Maybe his head simply isn't a swollen over a video game.
What's with all this "trust me, I know" stuff? Why should I? You didn't give me a reason to.

Oh please forgive, me Oh great Best Sorcerer of the World ! How was I foolish enough to express my opinion after 3 laughable years of playing Magicka Sorcerer non stop-

Accept my apologize, you are the best of all. Teach use how to Sorc please.

So that's your conclusion? Childish indeed.

Just get over it, Sorcerer does not excell at anything. Every other class is the best at something, Sorcerer is not the best at anything. This is only for magicka Sorcerer, Stamina Sorcerer is very viable. (just like everything in One Stamriel)

I'm happy for you if you are satisfied with this class and believe for some reason, that it needs no improvements at all.
Wish I would live in that world.

Izaki

Dracane wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Always this debate.
Light armor is not viable for any build or class.

Light armor is the only armor that grants no benefit to healing. Medium armor increases weapon damage, which increases your healing done and heavy armor increases your healing taken.
Light armor offers no damage against damage shields and low resistance enemies.

Also, the regen is even lower than heavy armor regen.
I roll over any magicka build instantly in pvp and duels, it's not viable at all.
I admit, that I am still wearing light armor in pvp. Because I won't follow a meta.

That's a bit of a contradiction, and maybe more people feel the same way as you than you give them credit for? I wear light armor, and know of many other sorcs that also run light armor and wouldn't go without it. Yeah maybe it could do with a little something extra, but it's still the best choice for a Magicka Sorcerer

Biro123 wrote: »

dpencil wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

For example, I do just fine on my magicka sorc with DW and 52k magicka in light armor, without a single impen piece.

@IzakiBrotheSs I don't understand how you can get 52k magicka without running Necropotence with a pet. There's only one set that gives a 3 max magicka boosts (which is Necropotence) and several that give 2 max magicka (like Spinners and Elegant), but not all of them make sense to run for a DW DD. Even assuming something like 5 spinners, 5 elegant (for overload I guess), 1 ilambris, 1 Infernal Guardian, Blue stat food, and having Bound Aegis, Inner Light, Structured Entropy, and Shooting Star on the front bar, the max magicka would still only be 50k. This would go down drastically on the back bar to more like 46k, assuming you're not dual wielding there or duplicating all the mage's guild skills. By contrast, the same skill setup and gear, except switching out Elegant for Necropotence with a pet would boost max magicka to 58k.

My usual Necropotence build sits at around 52-53k, using a staff, 3 piece willpower, and 2 piece Infernal Guardian.

I can't figure this out either. I made a spreadsheet a few weeks ago listing every set that gives a magicka bonus, calculating how much magicka per piece each set gives (for various amounts of pieces) and ranking them in order of mag magicka per piece. Unfortunately I'm working away this week so don't have access to it, but in a non-pet build, I couldn't work out a way to get more than 45k. I think all I didn't try(and couldn't work out) was the 3-piece jewellry set that gives a 4% boost

Having more Magicka normally requires you to go DW for the extra set slot, and some people choose to go with no monster set and use 2 single pieces that give a Magicka bonus (grothdarr, infernal Guardian, Ilambris) then you need to make sure you have your undaunted passives, correct race, and use a skill or two that will give you some extra Max Magicka percentage.

It's the worst choice for everyone. The ones I know (myself included) Only wear it for the 10% crit, besides that, it offers no benefits.

Light armor needs to buff damage shields instead of spell resistance and it needs a small spell damage buff on top of that spell penetration

Did you even read what I wrote? If not you should.

Sheey wrote: »

Since I use Heavy Armor on Magica Sorcerer I did win 90% of all duels and the ones who killed me couldn't beat me the next few times, beside dracane.

You guys can math what ever you like, overall damage on heavy is slightly higher against every type of armor. The overall sustain is around 2,5 x higher as if you wear LA.

I used LA for 2 1/4 year and run since 1/2 year non stop HA. Trust me.

I don't trust you blindly no. I run light armor and I'm fine. All the best sorcs I've seen run light armor. And instead of just claiming you're the best sorc in the game or in pc eu, you might want to actually take in some advice. Apparently, grand overlord doesn't mean much after all. I just made a long as post for you, so you could understand the math behind this stuff and instead you just say "I know what I'm doing, trust me" when you clearly don't. Read that stuff take it in, look at some guys who actually found all of these formulas. And if maths prove that heavy armor isn't better in terms of sustain or damage, then it clearly isn't. In a video game there's no magic or exceptions, there's maths, coding and formulas. So yeah, sure run with your heavy armor sorc build, but don't claim its the best.

There is no "king" or "queen" of a class. Especially, that the only thing that the "queen" does, is complain about how bad magicka sorcerers are and how much they are in need of a buff. Yes, @Dracane you know what I'm talking about, every time I see you on a sorcerer thread, you just trash the current state of the class and say that its unplayable or whatnot. Someone who is really good at a class, is someone who can actually play with the things that are already in the game, someone who doesn't need buffs to play his/her favorite class. Asking for buffs only shows that you can't play a specific play style, thus completely contradicting the whole royalty thing.

I never said it's unplayable. If it was, then I wouldn't be playing it anymore.
But it's the worst class of all, in all aspects of the game.

Just because I'm good with this class, doesn't mean that it's a good class. I'm playing it since 3 years, like Shey, we know our stuff. But it's pretty much a pro-exclusive class. If you are no master at this class, you will be terrible.
You might be satisfied by your success @IzakiBrotheSs But trust me, it's an illusion. You may be good for your standards, but not for our standards.

FYI magicka sorcerers are the best magicka DPS in trials along with magicka Templars (depends on the fight). Stamina DKs might pull more in single target, but no one plays stamina in trials anyway. So you're wrong right off the bat, this class is not the worst in all aspects of the game. Also, last time I checked, magicka DKs had a harder time in PvP. And magicka NBs for that matter. So that leaves Sorcs on the second best spot? Yeah okay. So yeah, you do trash the class at every opportunity, without really backing it up. It doesn't make you look good you know that, right? Just shows that you don't play all aspects of the game.
I'm wondering how you guys know your stuff and end up denying the fact that light armor is superior to heavy on a magicka sorcerer. The only possible conclusion one might come up with is... well that maybe you guys aren't as good as you think you are. Questioning yourself is always good, so is taking advice and looking at maths. Confidence is a good quality, but arrogance isn't and sometimes doubt and external help will lead to better results. C'est la vie.
Notice that unlike you, I never claimed I'm good or the best. I said I'm doing fine. I can 1vX and duel just fine. What exactly are your standards? Playing never-ending duels where people forfeit because its plain boring? 1vXing a zerg in a small group? 1vXing a zerg solo? Thing is there aren't many standards in PvP apart from having fun. The only thing that is competitive in PvP is getting emp, and even that is more or less easily achieved with the right connections. If someone can do the same things as you, means that there are no illusions, he's on the same playing field. Maybe his head simply isn't a swollen over a video game.
What's with all this "trust me, I know" stuff? Why should I? You didn't give me a reason to.

Oh please forgive, me Oh great Best Sorcerer of the World ! How was I foolish enough to express my opinion after 3 laughable years of playing Magicka Sorcerer non stop-

Accept my apologize, you are the best of all. Teach use how to Sorc please.

So that's your conclusion? Childish indeed.

Just get over it, Sorcerer does not excell at anything. Every other class is the best at something, Sorcerer is not the best at anything. This is only for magicka Sorcerer, Stamina Sorcerer is very viable. (just like everything in One Stamriel)

I'm happy for you if you are satisfied with this class and believe for some reason, that it needs no improvements at all.
Wish I would live in that world.

Well you'll have to explain the presence of 2-4 magicka sorcerers in every good trials team to me then. What's a stamina templar best at? PvP most people tend to lean towards stamina sorcerers... In PvE, magicka sorcerers are really popular and usually make up most of the team DPS, because they excel at ranged DPS. What's a magicka NB best at? Absolutely nothing. Lackluster in PvE, not great in anything other than duels and zerg-bombing in PvP. See the only 2 classes that excel at something to the point where they are the best, is Templar in healing and DK in tanking trials.
I never said it didn't need any buffs btw, don't know where you get that from. I said that light armor is better than heavy. I said that asking for buffs isn't a solution, cause you never know if they'll come, so you got to work with what you have. I also asked you a few questions that I didn't seem to get an answer to... Why you gotta deny everything? Is maths really that horrible of a subject? Is maths not valid proof for my point? Does someone have to be the best at something to give advice?
Only thing your and Shey's reactions did, was show that you can't get over being wrong for some reason.

Dracane

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Always this debate.
Light armor is not viable for any build or class.

Light armor is the only armor that grants no benefit to healing. Medium armor increases weapon damage, which increases your healing done and heavy armor increases your healing taken.
Light armor offers no damage against damage shields and low resistance enemies.

Also, the regen is even lower than heavy armor regen.
I roll over any magicka build instantly in pvp and duels, it's not viable at all.
I admit, that I am still wearing light armor in pvp. Because I won't follow a meta.

That's a bit of a contradiction, and maybe more people feel the same way as you than you give them credit for? I wear light armor, and know of many other sorcs that also run light armor and wouldn't go without it. Yeah maybe it could do with a little something extra, but it's still the best choice for a Magicka Sorcerer

Biro123 wrote: »

dpencil wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

For example, I do just fine on my magicka sorc with DW and 52k magicka in light armor, without a single impen piece.

@IzakiBrotheSs I don't understand how you can get 52k magicka without running Necropotence with a pet. There's only one set that gives a 3 max magicka boosts (which is Necropotence) and several that give 2 max magicka (like Spinners and Elegant), but not all of them make sense to run for a DW DD. Even assuming something like 5 spinners, 5 elegant (for overload I guess), 1 ilambris, 1 Infernal Guardian, Blue stat food, and having Bound Aegis, Inner Light, Structured Entropy, and Shooting Star on the front bar, the max magicka would still only be 50k. This would go down drastically on the back bar to more like 46k, assuming you're not dual wielding there or duplicating all the mage's guild skills. By contrast, the same skill setup and gear, except switching out Elegant for Necropotence with a pet would boost max magicka to 58k.

My usual Necropotence build sits at around 52-53k, using a staff, 3 piece willpower, and 2 piece Infernal Guardian.

I can't figure this out either. I made a spreadsheet a few weeks ago listing every set that gives a magicka bonus, calculating how much magicka per piece each set gives (for various amounts of pieces) and ranking them in order of mag magicka per piece. Unfortunately I'm working away this week so don't have access to it, but in a non-pet build, I couldn't work out a way to get more than 45k. I think all I didn't try(and couldn't work out) was the 3-piece jewellry set that gives a 4% boost

Having more Magicka normally requires you to go DW for the extra set slot, and some people choose to go with no monster set and use 2 single pieces that give a Magicka bonus (grothdarr, infernal Guardian, Ilambris) then you need to make sure you have your undaunted passives, correct race, and use a skill or two that will give you some extra Max Magicka percentage.

It's the worst choice for everyone. The ones I know (myself included) Only wear it for the 10% crit, besides that, it offers no benefits.

Light armor needs to buff damage shields instead of spell resistance and it needs a small spell damage buff on top of that spell penetration

Did you even read what I wrote? If not you should.

Sheey wrote: »

Since I use Heavy Armor on Magica Sorcerer I did win 90% of all duels and the ones who killed me couldn't beat me the next few times, beside dracane.

You guys can math what ever you like, overall damage on heavy is slightly higher against every type of armor. The overall sustain is around 2,5 x higher as if you wear LA.

I used LA for 2 1/4 year and run since 1/2 year non stop HA. Trust me.

I don't trust you blindly no. I run light armor and I'm fine. All the best sorcs I've seen run light armor. And instead of just claiming you're the best sorc in the game or in pc eu, you might want to actually take in some advice. Apparently, grand overlord doesn't mean much after all. I just made a long as post for you, so you could understand the math behind this stuff and instead you just say "I know what I'm doing, trust me" when you clearly don't. Read that stuff take it in, look at some guys who actually found all of these formulas. And if maths prove that heavy armor isn't better in terms of sustain or damage, then it clearly isn't. In a video game there's no magic or exceptions, there's maths, coding and formulas. So yeah, sure run with your heavy armor sorc build, but don't claim its the best.

There is no "king" or "queen" of a class. Especially, that the only thing that the "queen" does, is complain about how bad magicka sorcerers are and how much they are in need of a buff. Yes, @Dracane you know what I'm talking about, every time I see you on a sorcerer thread, you just trash the current state of the class and say that its unplayable or whatnot. Someone who is really good at a class, is someone who can actually play with the things that are already in the game, someone who doesn't need buffs to play his/her favorite class. Asking for buffs only shows that you can't play a specific play style, thus completely contradicting the whole royalty thing.

I never said it's unplayable. If it was, then I wouldn't be playing it anymore.
But it's the worst class of all, in all aspects of the game.

Just because I'm good with this class, doesn't mean that it's a good class. I'm playing it since 3 years, like Shey, we know our stuff. But it's pretty much a pro-exclusive class. If you are no master at this class, you will be terrible.
You might be satisfied by your success @IzakiBrotheSs But trust me, it's an illusion. You may be good for your standards, but not for our standards.

FYI magicka sorcerers are the best magicka DPS in trials along with magicka Templars (depends on the fight). Stamina DKs might pull more in single target, but no one plays stamina in trials anyway. So you're wrong right off the bat, this class is not the worst in all aspects of the game. Also, last time I checked, magicka DKs had a harder time in PvP. And magicka NBs for that matter. So that leaves Sorcs on the second best spot? Yeah okay. So yeah, you do trash the class at every opportunity, without really backing it up. It doesn't make you look good you know that, right? Just shows that you don't play all aspects of the game.
I'm wondering how you guys know your stuff and end up denying the fact that light armor is superior to heavy on a magicka sorcerer. The only possible conclusion one might come up with is... well that maybe you guys aren't as good as you think you are. Questioning yourself is always good, so is taking advice and looking at maths. Confidence is a good quality, but arrogance isn't and sometimes doubt and external help will lead to better results. C'est la vie.
Notice that unlike you, I never claimed I'm good or the best. I said I'm doing fine. I can 1vX and duel just fine. What exactly are your standards? Playing never-ending duels where people forfeit because its plain boring? 1vXing a zerg in a small group? 1vXing a zerg solo? Thing is there aren't many standards in PvP apart from having fun. The only thing that is competitive in PvP is getting emp, and even that is more or less easily achieved with the right connections. If someone can do the same things as you, means that there are no illusions, he's on the same playing field. Maybe his head simply isn't a swollen over a video game.
What's with all this "trust me, I know" stuff? Why should I? You didn't give me a reason to.

Oh please forgive, me Oh great Best Sorcerer of the World ! How was I foolish enough to express my opinion after 3 laughable years of playing Magicka Sorcerer non stop-

Accept my apologize, you are the best of all. Teach use how to Sorc please.

So that's your conclusion? Childish indeed.

Just get over it, Sorcerer does not excell at anything. Every other class is the best at something, Sorcerer is not the best at anything. This is only for magicka Sorcerer, Stamina Sorcerer is very viable. (just like everything in One Stamriel)

I'm happy for you if you are satisfied with this class and believe for some reason, that it needs no improvements at all.
Wish I would live in that world.

Well you'll have to explain the presence of 2-4 magicka sorcerers in every good trials team to me then. What's a stamina templar best at? PvP most people tend to lean towards stamina sorcerers... In PvE, magicka sorcerers are really popular and usually make up most of the team DPS, because they excel at ranged DPS. What's a magicka NB best at? Absolutely nothing. Lackluster in PvE, not great in anything other than duels and zerg-bombing in PvP. See the only 2 classes that excel at something to the point where they are the best, is Templar in healing and DK in tanking trials.
I never said it didn't need any buffs btw, don't know where you get that from. I said that light armor is better than heavy. I said that asking for buffs isn't a solution, cause you never know if they'll come, so you got to work with what you have. I also asked you a few questions that I didn't seem to get an answer to... Why you gotta deny everything? Is maths really that horrible of a subject? Is maths not valid proof for my point? Does someone have to be the best at something to give advice?
Only thing your and Shey's reactions did, was show that you can't get over being wrong for some reason.

And now you proved, that you know nothing.
Magicka Nightblade happens to be the best class for Maelstrom Arena, by far. And I have never seen a trial that is made of Magicka Sorcerers.

However, back to your "questions" . Is it really me who denies something ? Rather you deny, that light armor is by far the worst armor type right now. It is outperformed by heavy armor in pretty much every aspect overall. It also offers less passives than medium armor and heavy armor, because it has no combined passives (MA and HA have 2 each.)

And you also showed no math at all. All your math was to say, that there are 2-4 magicka Sorcerers in your "good" trial. Impressive math my dear.
Shey and me are very experienced pvpers, you are a pve noodle. So please don't even dare questioning our opinions. I'm sure, we definately know what we are talking about. You however ?

Shaiba

Hello

Dracane wrote: »

And you also showed no math at all. All your math was to say, that there are 2-4 magicka Sorcerers in your "good" trial. Impressive math my dear.

You probably missed his post first page of this topic. Let me quote it for you :

"IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

@Sheey here is my answer. Do some maths.

Looking at heavy armor as a whole and light armor as a whole without any particular sets involved.

If you really think that CP can make up for the loss of penetration from Light Armor without diminishing returns and without gimping yourself elsewhere, well I think you should go back and do some maths.
Light Armor passive: 4884 penetration. The equivalent in CP is 91 points into Spell Erosion. This is a 10% damage increase.
Okay now lets look at the spell damage from the Wrath passive. 200 spell damage when fully buffed. I will take the stats from your build video: 41035 max magicka, 2024 spell damage unbuffed (2429 with Major Sorcerery). The wrath passive gives you 200 spell damage + 6% from 3 Sorcerer skills slotted and 20% from Major Sorcerery, you get 252 spell damage. So lets calculate the damage increase! (252 x 10.5)/(41035 + 10.5 x 2429) = 0.03976. So yeah the Wrath passive when fully buffed provided you with just under 4% tooltip damage increase. Also the passive doesn't have 100% uptime, which makes it even less of a damage increase overall.
If you're smart instead of stacking points into Spell Erosion (which scales extremely badly) you will be stacking into Elfborn which provides a larger damage increase per point spent, even in the case of impen. Actually stacking 91+ points into spell erosion is just straight up stupid, because not only you lose damage from Elemental Expert but your crits are going to be hitting like wet noodles. Which leads me to my next point about heavy armor vs light armor.

Did I seriously hear that crit isn't important in PvP? Lets calculate our average damage shall we? The formula is = base damage x (1 + critical chance x critical modifier). EDIT: a mistake in calculations.
My critical hit damage modifier is 0.69 which is the base modifier of 0.5 + my points into Elfborn (66) = 0.69. So lets say someone has full impen and 52 points into resistant, which is a pretty common distribution, it will net them exactly 44% critical hit resistance. So my critical hits are hitting only 25% harder than normal hits right (0.69 - 0.44 = 0.25)? But I also have 48% crit chance. So the average tooltip damage increase is = 1 + 0.25 x 0.48 = 1.12. So over the course of the fight my abilities will be doing on average 12% more damage that the tooltip.
Now lets check out heavy armor assuming we have the same stats in penetration, spell damage and magicka but in heavy instead of light. Crit chance 38% and the same points into Elfborn. You will be doing 1.095 more damage than the tooltip. So yeah 10% more critical chance against someone with 44% critical resistance is only a 2.5% average damage increase...
But lets speak realistically. It isn't possible to have the same amount of critical hit damage and spell penetration on a heavy armor build as it is on a light armor build, because there's simply not enough CP points. So I'll take my CP distribution and yours and will do the same comparison as before.
My average damage is 1.12 more than the tooltip value as we've calculated earlier. This essentially translates to 12% more damage on average than stated on the tooltip.
You critical modifier is 0.5 as you've spent 0 points into Elfborn, so against someone with 44% critical resistance, your critical hits will be doing 6% more damage than normal hits. Your critical hit chance is 22%. So your average damage is 1.32% (1.0132) higher than the tooltip values.
So our difference in average damage is 10.68%, now tell me again that crit is not important.

So now that we compared the damage passives and the critical hits, it is safe to say that light armor will always do more damage as it allows for higher stacking of both penetration and critical hit damage, whereas with heavy you're limited to spending all extra points into either one, so in every possible case, light armor will do more damage than heavy armor.
There might be 1 exception, damage shields, this is where the Wrath passive shines brighter than Light Armor passives of crit and penetration. But when you look at the meta nowadays, there aren't many shield users.

Alright for the sake of comparing the sustain on heavy and light armor lets chose some static values.
Race = High Elf
Recovery buffs = High elf passive (9%), Major Intellect from potions (20%), Sorcerer passive (10%), Arcanist 48 CP (16%)
Cost reduction buffs = Sorcerer passive (5%), Magician 100 CP (16%)
Base recovery is 514

Recovery and cost reduction difference between heavy armor and light armor:
- Evocation and Recovery passives = 20% regen, 15% cost reduction with 5 light armor pieces
- Constitution passive = 930 with 5 heavy armor pieces (essentially = 232 recovery per sec)

It doesn't take a genius to see that 232 recovery is huge, I agree. Nonetheless it doesn't benefit from the static buffs and as a sole form of sustain, it is not enough. The Evocation passive however is always effective no matter what the recovery value is. The Recovery passive's effectiveness is determined by the amount of base recovery you have. You can take your pick of base recovery values and then run this formula: (base + gear + drink + atronach x divines) x (buffs + arcanist CP).
No matter what your recovery with heavy armor is, the constitution passive will be added at the very end of the equation, so the more recovery you stack, the better Light Armor becomes and the worse Constitution becomes.
Now if you have basically no recovery from gear, then we can compare 15% cost reduction and the Constitution passive by themselves. Take a generic ability with a 3000 magicka cost. The formula for spell cost = (base x (1 - Magician) - flat cost reduction) x (1 - cost reduction buffs)
With light armor (no cost reduction glyphs) the cost of this generic ability = 3000 x (1 - 0.16) x (1 - 0.2) = 2016
With heavy armor (no cost reduction glyphs) = 3000 x (1 - 0.16) x (1 - 0.05) = 2394
Say we cast this ability every 1 second with recovery entirely disabled. After 10 casts:
With light armor = 20160
With heavy armor = 23940 - constitution x 2 = 22080

So even with recovery completely disabled (which can't happen in game) light armor offers more sustain. Mess around with the formulas to try to a find a situation where heavy will be more effective than light armor. There isn't.

(BTW the cost reduction glyphs are a bad idea on your jewelry as they are applied before the CP, so essentially you're diminishing the returns on the Magician CP star).

Now seriously don't even talk about resistances and health because they aren't touched 80% of the time as a sorcerer. I can sit around and emote while someone is beating on my shields. If you're that good at shield stacking then you obviously don't need heavy armor, or you aren't good at shield stacking and you need the heavy armor to survive, which is perfectly fine, just don't say it as if its a fact that without heavy armor sorcs are screwed. The thing with heavy armor is that no matter how high your resistances are and no matter how good your crit resistance is, shields completely negate all those benefits. As a sorc, you don't let your shield go down very often right? After all you're the "best shield stacker pc eu".

Stamina recovery? Seriously? I have 10k stamina, and under 800 stamina recovery and I'm perfectly fine with tri-pots. 10% dodge and break free reduction is all that is ever needed in terms of stamina sustain.

You're pretty humble though Maybe instead of saying how good you are at playing sorcs and how well you know the class, you should look into some maths and see that your build is pretty much stacking diminishing returns and is entirely counter-productive.

*You need to click on "show" to see the quoted part

Izaki

@Dracane
Ah there it goes.
Stamina sorcerers are the best class in vMA, by far. Proof? The 2 people who broke 600k scores both did it on a stamina sorcerer. Try again.

I showed no math at all? Sure about that?

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Sheey wrote: »

Since when do you loose regen in heavy armor ? Since when is critical damage requiered to be successfull in pvp? Since when do you loose spellpenetration by wearing heavy armor (CP Spellpenetration) .

Answers:

-Constitution Passiv
- Every known Player runs at least 1.5 k impen, YOU CAN NOT RELY ON A CHANCE WHICH IS CONTERED AT ALL TIMES. Bad Players are gonna die anyway.
- CP

Lightarmor:

- You loose Spellpenetration from LA passiv but if you are smart change your CP correctly.

Thats the only LA passiv for Pvp which is kinda good. Regen is same if not higher when you use heavy.

Heavy Armor:

- +200Spelldamage
- - more Health
- - Way more Spell -/ Physicalresistance
- extra Magica regen
- extra Stamina regen
- more Healregen

I am one of the best succefull Shieledstackers on Pc Eu and I tell you something.

You never ever can make presure on your enemy and holding your shields up at all times.
Against bad enemies surely you gonna win. But against good players you' ll have a huge disadvetage because they gonna block/dodge your damage and burst you down.

The problems with LA are :

- to less Health
- to short shield to keep you defensiv up at all times.
- Managable but serious stamina issues
- Heavy armor gives all why would you run light?

Let me hear your answer @IzakiBrotheSs

@Sheey here is my answer. Do some maths.

Looking at heavy armor as a whole and light armor as a whole without any particular sets involved.



If you really think that CP can make up for the loss of penetration from Light Armor without diminishing returns and without gimping yourself elsewhere, well I think you should go back and do some maths.
Light Armor passive: 4884 penetration. The equivalent in CP is 91 points into Spell Erosion. This is a 10% damage increase.
Okay now lets look at the spell damage from the Wrath passive. 200 spell damage when fully buffed. I will take the stats from your build video: 41035 max magicka, 2024 spell damage unbuffed (2429 with Major Sorcerery). The wrath passive gives you 200 spell damage + 6% from 3 Sorcerer skills slotted and 20% from Major Sorcerery, you get 252 spell damage. So lets calculate the damage increase! (252 x 10.5)/(41035 + 10.5 x 2429) = 0.03976. So yeah the Wrath passive when fully buffed provided you with just under 4% tooltip damage increase. Also the passive doesn't have 100% uptime, which makes it even less of a damage increase overall.
If you're smart instead of stacking points into Spell Erosion (which scales extremely badly) you will be stacking into Elfborn which provides a larger damage increase per point spent, even in the case of impen. Actually stacking 91+ points into spell erosion is just straight up stupid, because not only you lose damage from Elemental Expert but your crits are going to be hitting like wet noodles. Which leads me to my next point about heavy armor vs light armor.

Did I seriously hear that crit isn't important in PvP? Lets calculate our average damage shall we? The formula is = base damage x (1 + critical chance x critical modifier). EDIT: a mistake in calculations.
My critical hit damage modifier is 0.69 which is the base modifier of 0.5 + my points into Elfborn (66) = 0.69. So lets say someone has full impen and 52 points into resistant, which is a pretty common distribution, it will net them exactly 44% critical hit resistance. So my critical hits are hitting only 25% harder than normal hits right (0.69 - 0.44 = 0.25)? But I also have 48% crit chance. So the average tooltip damage increase is = 1 + 0.25 x 0.48 = 1.12. So over the course of the fight my abilities will be doing on average 12% more damage that the tooltip.
Now lets check out heavy armor assuming we have the same stats in penetration, spell damage and magicka but in heavy instead of light. Crit chance 38% and the same points into Elfborn. You will be doing 1.095 more damage than the tooltip. So yeah 10% more critical chance against someone with 44% critical resistance is only a 2.5% average damage increase...
But lets speak realistically. It isn't possible to have the same amount of critical hit damage and spell penetration on a heavy armor build as it is on a light armor build, because there's simply not enough CP points. So I'll take my CP distribution and yours and will do the same comparison as before.
My average damage is 1.12 more than the tooltip value as we've calculated earlier. This essentially translates to 12% more damage on average than stated on the tooltip.
You critical modifier is 0.5 as you've spent 0 points into Elfborn, so against someone with 44% critical resistance, your critical hits will be doing 6% more damage than normal hits. Your critical hit chance is 22%. So your average damage is 1.32% (1.0132) higher than the tooltip values.
So our difference in average damage is 10.68%, now tell me again that crit is not important.

So now that we compared the damage passives and the critical hits, it is safe to say that light armor will always do more damage as it allows for higher stacking of both penetration and critical hit damage, whereas with heavy you're limited to spending all extra points into either one, so in every possible case, light armor will do more damage than heavy armor.
There might be 1 exception, damage shields, this is where the Wrath passive shines brighter than Light Armor passives of crit and penetration. But when you look at the meta nowadays, there aren't many shield users.

Alright for the sake of comparing the sustain on heavy and light armor lets chose some static values.
Race = High Elf
Recovery buffs = High elf passive (9%), Major Intellect from potions (20%), Sorcerer passive (10%), Arcanist 48 CP (16%)
Cost reduction buffs = Sorcerer passive (5%), Magician 100 CP (16%)
Base recovery is 514

Recovery and cost reduction difference between heavy armor and light armor:
- Evocation and Recovery passives = 20% regen, 15% cost reduction with 5 light armor pieces
- Constitution passive = 930 with 5 heavy armor pieces (essentially = 232 recovery per sec)

It doesn't take a genius to see that 232 recovery is huge, I agree. Nonetheless it doesn't benefit from the static buffs and as a sole form of sustain, it is not enough. The Evocation passive however is always effective no matter what the recovery value is. The Recovery passive's effectiveness is determined by the amount of base recovery you have. You can take your pick of base recovery values and then run this formula: (base + gear + drink + atronach x divines) x (buffs + arcanist CP).
No matter what your recovery with heavy armor is, the constitution passive will be added at the very end of the equation, so the more recovery you stack, the better Light Armor becomes and the worse Constitution becomes.
Now if you have basically no recovery from gear, then we can compare 15% cost reduction and the Constitution passive by themselves. Take a generic ability with a 3000 magicka cost. The formula for spell cost = (base x (1 - Magician) - flat cost reduction) x (1 - cost reduction buffs)
With light armor (no cost reduction glyphs) the cost of this generic ability = 3000 x (1 - 0.16) x (1 - 0.2) = 2016
With heavy armor (no cost reduction glyphs) = 3000 x (1 - 0.16) x (1 - 0.05) = 2394
Say we cast this ability every 1 second with recovery entirely disabled. After 10 casts:
With light armor = 20160
With heavy armor = 23940 - constitution x 2 = 22080

So even with recovery completely disabled (which can't happen in game) light armor offers more sustain. Mess around with the formulas to try to a find a situation where heavy will be more effective than light armor. There isn't.

(BTW the cost reduction glyphs are a bad idea on your jewelry as they are applied before the CP, so essentially you're diminishing the returns on the Magician CP star).

Now seriously don't even talk about resistances and health because they aren't touched 80% of the time as a sorcerer. I can sit around and emote while someone is beating on my shields. If you're that good at shield stacking then you obviously don't need heavy armor, or you aren't good at shield stacking and you need the heavy armor to survive, which is perfectly fine, just don't say it as if its a fact that without heavy armor sorcs are screwed. The thing with heavy armor is that no matter how high your resistances are and no matter how good your crit resistance is, shields completely negate all those benefits. As a sorc, you don't let your shield go down very often right? After all you're the "best shield stacker pc eu".

Stamina recovery? Seriously? I have 10k stamina, and under 800 stamina recovery and I'm perfectly fine with tri-pots. 10% dodge and break free reduction is all that is ever needed in terms of stamina sustain.

You're pretty humble though Maybe instead of saying how good you are at playing sorcs and how well you know the class, you should look into some maths and see that your build is pretty much stacking diminishing returns and is entirely counter-productive.

Is that enough maths for you? Yeah I think we can safely say, that you need to try again this time too.

Well, do you want the videos of the highest scores for MoL HM? You can count the number of sorcerers yourself if you want. As much as you can say about me being a PvE noodle, I can assure you that my team is doing just fine in terms of leaderboards and trials. In fact, La Matrice is more often than not in the top positions on the trial leaderboards for Xbox EU. And I can safely say, that we are running at least 2 magicka sorcerers for all trials (occasionally 4 if no ones wants to play stamina builds).

You don't seem to have much knowledge in this area, but whatever its PvP what we're talking about right? Well, if heavy armor is so good then tell me, why haven't we seen all magicka builds run heavy armor in trials? According to you guys, the damage from heavy is superior, even though you lack 5k penetration and 10% crit chance, so surely every magicka build should be running heavy armor for trials. Don't say that its different, because its not. Damage calculations are the same for PvP and PvE, only difference being the mitigation values (500 = 1% in PvE and 660 = 1% in PvP) and the Battle Spirit character state.

At this point, I'm sure you don't really know what you're talking about. Please don't begin with all that "not daring to question us". I question whoever I want and opinions are subject to criticism from anyone. Especially, your opinions aren't facts as you make them out to be. You just made yourself even less credible...

Minalan

@IzakiBrotheSs people run light armor in trials because if the tank does their job they are rarely attacked, take little damage, and proc no wrath. In trials most sorcs don't even need damage shields. We are discussing Two completely different worlds.

Armor is a function of play style. Period. This entire argument is asinine.

If you're running solo or small scale, light armor is for you. Just watch your positioning and don't get caught by more than a couple of players. Use streak to reposition, keep shields up. Turn every fight you can into a duel where light armor crit and penetration burst excels. Stay off of the front lines of a zerg, you don't belong there. I can finish off four or five bounties without dying once doing this. I call it 'doing okay'.

If you're running in a ball group where success depends on YOU being on top of crown 100% of the time, light armor will NOT work. Period. Don't argue this. You're going to take tons of siege damage, oil burn, multiple ultimates, and six people leaping on you. You cannot shield all of it. You cannot block a fraction of it. Your job is to bomb, negate, encase, DPS, and AOE for the farm ball and win the keep against a megaswarm of 5 to 1 odds. Some people play this way, and they know exactly what they're doing. This play requires teamspeak, health, heavy armor, and synergies to get back your resources. And it wins the damn map. The other people call this 'doing okay'.

Both of you are 100% right. So put it to bed already.

Izaki

Minalan wrote: »

@IzakiBrotheSs people run light armor in trials because if the tank does their job they are rarely attacked, take little damage, and proc no wrath. In trials most sorcs don't even need damage shields. We are discussing Two completely different worlds.

Armor is a function of play style. Period. This entire argument is asinine.

If you're running solo or small scale, light armor is for you. Just watch your positioning and don't get caught by more than a couple of players. Use streak to reposition, keep shields up. Turn every fight you can into a duel where light armor crit and penetration burst excels. Stay off of the front lines of a zerg, you don't belong there. I can finish off four or five bounties without dying once doing this. I call it 'doing okay'.

If you're running in a ball group where success depends on YOU being on top of crown 100% of the time, light armor will NOT work. Period. Don't argue this. You're going to take tons of siege damage, oil burn, multiple ultimates, and six people leaping on you. You cannot shield all of it. You cannot block a fraction of it. Your job is to bomb, negate, encase, DPS, and AOE for the farm ball and win the keep against a megaswarm of 5 to 1 odds. Some people play this way, and they know exactly what they're doing. This play requires teamspeak, health, heavy armor, and synergies to get back your resources. And it wins the damn map. The other people call this 'doing okay'.

Both of you are 100% right. So put it to bed already.

I know that haha, yes the point was a stupid one, but a valid one. There is enough AoE damage to keep Wrath proc'ed in every trial, hence why most group leaders advise a shield even in non-hard mode to avoid stupid deaths although no one listens (Poison at the Serpent, Chain Lightning at the Mage, Meteors and Breath of Lorkhaj at Rakkhat). If heavy armor did do more damage through the Wrath passive, it certainly would be worn by everyone. So in the end although they are two completely different worlds, the example still stands. Bottom line: the point about heavy armor producing more damage and sustain is just not true.

Yes both do have different functions. light armor is doing its job where it should be done, so we agree on that. So basically in situations where single target burst matters, light armor is king and we agree on that. But I doubt that Shey and Dracane stack on top of crown right? I mean even after this whole argument, facts stay facts, the guys aren't zergers. So Light Armor would benefit them most, which is what I've been saying since the beginning of all this nonsense.
Are you talking about the "medium size" groups? I don't wear heavy armor personally for those either... I focus on popping Negates at the right time, while spamming my execute to proc Vicious Death. I DW so I don't use the Destro ultimate, which makes me a more supporting role with the occasional Shooting Star into the middle of it all, but most of the time, I'm dropping mines, streaking, etc. At this point, I go full offensive, because the only way to actually survive is to kill everything in front of you as quickly as possible. A few k extra resists won't save me from 10+ people focusing you down anyway, I'm dead no matter what I'm wearing at that point.

Anyway, you're right about both of the armor functions. You're also right that the nature of this argument is stupid.

Minalan

I don't do it every night, but I tried large group play with light armor, and my allies in TS really got sick of picking my dead backside off the ground after every single engagement. Sure I was useful, and I got plenty of kills, but so many deaths...

Pale Orc: "Heal up. Caltrops east. Group res. And someone please scrape Mina up off the floor again..."

Yeah. Guess who has two thumbs and is farming tempers for his heavy set? Coordinated full raid group play is not bad gameplay, just different. Not for everyone. It's fun for different reasons because you're part of a team, accomplishing bigger objectives, and you're right on top of the anvil in some of the biggest and most epic battles in the game.

Izaki

Minalan wrote: »

I don't do it every night, but I tried large group play with light armor, and my allies in TS really got sick of picking my dead backside off the ground after every single engagement. Sure I was useful, and I got plenty of kills, but so many deaths...

Pale Orc: "Heal up. Caltrops east. Group res. And someone please scrape Mina up off the floor again..."

Yeah. Guess who has two thumbs and is farming tempers for his heavy set? Coordinated full raid group play is not bad gameplay, just different. Not for everyone. It's fun for different reasons because you're part of a team, accomplishing bigger objectives, and you're right on top of the anvil in some of the biggest and most epic battles in the game.

True, but maybe its because you weren't used to the play style? It is very different to small scale and solo PvP. You have A LOT more stuff to do and everything is WAY more crowded. You have to pick out targets so you can blow up the whole group as quickly as possible through Vicious Death, if you use Vicious Death. Then again I most likely don't play the same role in the group as you. It also requires completely different builds to be effective.
No no its not bad gameplay, but its generally frowned upon by everyone for some reason. When you think about it, sure if you have a full 24 man well organized group it could be fun, but I wouldn't know since we never get into groups of more than 12 (basically our trial team going out for PvP mob farming I guess) and even that is rare. Often its between 2 and 6.

Most epic battle in the game is HM Rakkhat though

Screw farming tempering alloys, I've had enough of doing that to sort out my weapons for my stamina toons and my DW swords for sorc! What really sucks is paying 20k per for them, so farming is the only option.

LegendaryMage

The only 'OP' sorc build as of now, is a totally min-maxed magicka build, courtesy of necropotence and blue maxmag-regen food buff. Everything else is pretty much down to earth, except that.

Waffennacht

LegendaryMage wrote: »

The only 'OP' sorc build as of now, is a totally min-maxed magicka build, courtesy of necropotence and blue maxmag-regen food buff. Everything else is pretty much down to earth, except that.

It's not OP though, - I just realized you could be PC where pets are actually effective in many scenarios. While we on console have the best pet experience in solo play. We cannot control their targets.

In duels, the counter is 2 shotting the pet, probably with a proc, then bash when ever they try to recast. If you're the proc build you can just run through mines and still burst for a win. DKs and temps can just burst heal through any ult if they know it's coming.

I think it's not OP just slightly under proc shenanigans.