Pvp magika sorc what kinda builds are op right now

jroc699_burr

Havent played my magika sorc since before patch i am lost

ku5h

5 Spinner, 5 Lich and Infernal Guardian monster set. Imo that is the most balanced combo of gear, you have great sustain, great dmg and sustained barage from IG is also really nice.

jroc699_burr

Nice looks good . have u ever try the martial knowledge or burning spell weave

Waffennacht

Prob with the elemental boost sets for a sorc are: only Ultimate, Clench, Barrier and Crush are fire/frost attacks (yes meteor too... but come on... why is Inferno staff Ysgramor's set exist for meteor??)

So burning spellweave is typically a DK set. I suppose Netch's touch would have a few more delections (overload, boundless storm and wrath... only)

Lich is cool, great for sustainability, however in my experience stam is still the more important stat (magicka regen no good if you're CC'ed)

Spinners offers what 6% more damage via the 5th perk, if you say had 60% crit modifier the dps on this 5th set is no different than the critical set version. Can also get more penetration using elemental defender. As is though, using a sharpened staff and light armor will bring a fellow LA user down to zero - add a crushing practically brings medium to zero. So I feel spinners is overkill against about 40-50% of the field.

There are many combos that bring the same dps for magicka users. We don't get 20k dmg proced from a basic attack...

Sheey

Pretty oneshot every single build you've posted.

WuffyCerulei

My pooper friend runs 1 Kena, 1 Illambris, 5 Spinner, and 5 Julianos, but I'm gonna drag him through CoA1 soon to get Infernal Guardian.

Sheey

Light Armor is currently not available for good pvp. It requieres groupplay. Medium and heavy armor outsustains light armor because medium builds are stamina builds which do only need one pool to boost. And heavy increases mag and stam same time and makes it even more powerfull by the 12% wd passiv and the +200 wd/sd buff.

Lightarmor has still no damage passiv and it has still the lowest resistance. Those two facts combined can not work.

psychotic13

Sheey wrote: »

Light Armor is currently not available for good pvp. It requieres groupplay. Medium and heavy armor outsustains light armor because medium builds are stamina builds which do only need one pool to boost. And heavy increases mag and stam same time and makes it even more powerfull by the 12% wd passiv and the +200 wd/sd buff.

Lightarmor has still no damage passiv and it has still the lowest resistance. Those two facts combined can not work.

LA doesn't have a flat damage increase like medium armor or heavy offers, but it does offer you penetration which isn't to be overlooked. To say LA requires group play is absurd, I do better than ok on my Magicka Sorcerer.

Yes LA has the lowest resistance, that would seem pretty obvious, but you're forgetting most builds wearing LA will also utilize shields for defence, which don't have resistance values and can't be critted.

EDIT: To the OP I'm currently using x5 Lich, x5 Necropotence and x3 Willpower and quite like the set up, it does require going DW though which takes a while to get used to after running a destro for so long, I've only been using this set up for a day but it's got me interested in DW again.

Sheey

psychotic13 wrote: »

Sheey wrote: »

Light Armor is currently not available for good pvp. It requieres groupplay. Medium and heavy armor outsustains light armor because medium builds are stamina builds which do only need one pool to boost. And heavy increases mag and stam same time and makes it even more powerfull by the 12% wd passiv and the +200 wd/sd buff.

Lightarmor has still no damage passiv and it has still the lowest resistance. Those two facts combined can not work.

LA doesn't have a flat damage increase like medium armor or heavy offers, but it does offer you penetration which isn't to be overlooked. To say LA requires group play is absurd, I do better than ok on my Magicka Sorcerer.

Yes LA has the lowest resistance, that would seem pretty obvious, but you're forgetting most builds wearing LA will also utilize shields for defence, which don't have resistance values and can't be critted.

EDIT: To the OP I'm currently using x5 Lich, x5 Necropotence and x3 Willpower and quite like the set up, it does require going DW though which takes a while to get used to after running a destro for so long, I've only been using this set up for a day but it's got me interested in DW again.

You gonna die in almost every 1vX situation. you gonna spamm shields 365 days in a year and do you know what you earn when you go offensiv? an 1shot.

psychotic13

Sheey wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

Sheey wrote: »

Light Armor is currently not available for good pvp. It requieres groupplay. Medium and heavy armor outsustains light armor because medium builds are stamina builds which do only need one pool to boost. And heavy increases mag and stam same time and makes it even more powerfull by the 12% wd passiv and the +200 wd/sd buff.

Lightarmor has still no damage passiv and it has still the lowest resistance. Those two facts combined can not work.

LA doesn't have a flat damage increase like medium armor or heavy offers, but it does offer you penetration which isn't to be overlooked. To say LA requires group play is absurd, I do better than ok on my Magicka Sorcerer.

Yes LA has the lowest resistance, that would seem pretty obvious, but you're forgetting most builds wearing LA will also utilize shields for defence, which don't have resistance values and can't be critted.

EDIT: To the OP I'm currently using x5 Lich, x5 Necropotence and x3 Willpower and quite like the set up, it does require going DW though which takes a while to get used to after running a destro for so long, I've only been using this set up for a day but it's got me interested in DW again.

You gonna die in almost every 1vX situation. you gonna spamm shields 365 days in a year and do you know what you earn when you go offensiv? an 1shot.

Maybe you die in every 1vX situation, but not everyone does. That doesn't make Magicka obsolete

Sheey

I am one of the best I know this classes issue at its finest.

AzuraKin

psychotic13 wrote: »

Sheey wrote: »

Light Armor is currently not available for good pvp. It requieres groupplay. Medium and heavy armor outsustains light armor because medium builds are stamina builds which do only need one pool to boost. And heavy increases mag and stam same time and makes it even more powerfull by the 12% wd passiv and the +200 wd/sd buff.

Lightarmor has still no damage passiv and it has still the lowest resistance. Those two facts combined can not work.

LA doesn't have a flat damage increase like medium armor or heavy offers, but it does offer you penetration which isn't to be overlooked. To say LA requires group play is absurd, I do better than ok on my Magicka Sorcerer.

Yes LA has the lowest resistance, that would seem pretty obvious, but you're forgetting most builds wearing LA will also utilize shields for defence, which don't have resistance values and can't be critted.

EDIT: To the OP I'm currently using x5 Lich, x5 Necropotence and x3 Willpower and quite like the set up, it does require going DW though which takes a while to get used to after running a destro for so long, I've only been using this set up for a day but it's got me interested in DW again.

heavy armor only grants up to 200 more wd/sd boost over light armor with the same stats, but heavy armor craps on sustainability. take any set you have in light armor that you can sustainably cast skills, and you would need about double the regen to sustainly cast in heavy armor (meaning you would have to give up more then 200 sp to make up for the loss of regen.

Izaki

Sheey wrote: »

I am one of the best I know this classes issue at its finest.

Heavy armor magicka sorc? What's the point? Might as well stack 50k magicka and have 30k worth of shields with better sustain, more penetration and the exact same tankiness.

You are the one who is wrong on the fact that Light Armor requires a group. Best sorcs I've seen wear light armor (and use DW too). If you like to play with heavy armor and can't survive without it, doesn't mean everyone else has to play like you. Also, whats funny is that in your videos of 1vX, you never let your shields go down, basically negating the whole point of using heavy armor.

Also, if you really think that magicka builds should be stacking spell damage like stamina user stack weapon damage, you kinda can't claim that you know the issues of the class and whatnot. Magicka have more tools for stacking max magicka (Mages Guild passives) and penetration (Light Armor passives).

Biro123

I've tried heavy armour with my magsorc.. couldn't get it to work.. Tried reactive first, thinking that many deaths come when cc'd as shield are taken down. Its fantastic for magsorcs survivability.. NB gankers must have hated it. But I couldn't kill anything, couldn't sustain either.

Tried heavy Julianos instead, and put a fair few CP's into penetration to make up for losing the light armour passive. Damage was better but just could not sustain. At all. It didn't work for me in many vs many fights since with hvy, you have to be taking hits to get the most out of it - but in most fights I was out of magicka in no time.

Switched to light Julianos and its much better for me. I can burst people down now. I can survive easily in many vs many (unless I get caught in an eots blob - but that's my fault, not the gear). I can usually survive a gank by one player - but definitely not by 2 - but I have quite a bit of health (over 26k) and use defensive rune. But as I mostly zerg-surf - it works for me. I can see heavy would be better for 1vX - but I just can't sustain it.. not the way I'm liking to play at the minute with dw.

My other set is trainee.. that's why the health is so high. Magicka is good too and stam for defence. I'd like to play a heavy armour sorc - but don't think I can yet - at least not at my CP and not without figuring out how to both sustain and deal dmg in it. I think it could only work without dw - and plenty of staff heavy attacks - which would mean either dropping trainee (which I really like) or infernal (which I also really like)..

I should try other variations, but I'm really out of cash - and mats.

Waffennacht

Biro123 wrote: »

I've tried heavy armour with my magsorc.. couldn't get it to work.. Tried reactive first, thinking that many deaths come when cc'd as shield are taken down. Its fantastic for magsorcs survivability.. NB gankers must have hated it. But I couldn't kill anything, couldn't sustain either.

Tried heavy Julianos instead, and put a fair few CP's into penetration to make up for losing the light armour passive. Damage was better but just could not sustain. At all. It didn't work for me in many vs many fights since with hvy, you have to be taking hits to get the most out of it - but in most fights I was out of magicka in no time.

Switched to light Julianos and its much better for me. I can burst people down now. I can survive easily in many vs many (unless I get caught in an eots blob - but that's my fault, not the gear). I can usually survive a gank by one player - but definitely not by 2 - but I have quite a bit of health (over 26k) and use defensive rune. But as I mostly zerg-surf - it works for me. I can see heavy would be better for 1vX - but I just can't sustain it.. not the way I'm liking to play at the minute with dw.

My other set is trainee.. that's why the health is so high. Magicka is good too and stam for defence. I'd like to play a heavy armour sorc - but don't think I can yet - at least not at my CP and not without figuring out how to both sustain and deal dmg in it. I think it could only work without dw - and plenty of staff heavy attacks - which would mean either dropping trainee (which I really like) or infernal (which I also really like)..

I should try other variations, but I'm really out of cash - and mats.

I got the HA to survive just about anything, with sustain, but could only kill glass cannons or those that over extended. But any slightly tank build I couldn't finish off in HA (such as DK or Temps that could deal massive heals)

And there is the antithesis of HA wrath and wards... those heals though... and 30k health... those are nice (trainee + Alchemist)

FriedEggSandwich

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Sheey wrote: »

I am one of the best I know this classes issue at its finest.

Heavy armor magicka sorc? What's the point? Might as well stack 50k magicka and have 30k worth of shields with better sustain, more penetration and the exact same tankiness.

You are the one who is wrong on the fact that Light Armor requires a group. Best sorcs I've seen wear light armor (and use DW too). If you like to play with heavy armor and can't survive without it, doesn't mean everyone else has to play like you. Also, whats funny is that in your videos of 1vX, you never let your shields go down, basically negating the whole point of using heavy armor.

Also, if you really think that magicka builds should be stacking spell damage like stamina user stack weapon damage, you kinda can't claim that you know the issues of the class and whatnot. Magicka have more tools for stacking max magicka (Mages Guild passives) and penetration (Light Armor passives).

He's a grand overlord and I have fought him many times and can confirm he can sorc. One thing I will say about sorcs wearing heavy armour is that since 1T they're just as likeky to be fully penetrated as a sorc wearing light armour. 2 pieces of heavy combined with boundless storm used to provide decent survivability, but these days not so much. I can't actually comment on 5 heavy as I've never worn that much.

Regarding stacking spell dmg vs magicka; I don't see much point in attempting to stack magicka unless you're utilising undaunted mettle. I'm undaunted rank 6 so don't have access to that passive, so if I try to stack magicka I lose tooltip damage vs. if I try to stack spell damage.

One size does not fit all.

Thelon

Sheey wrote: »

I am one of the best I know this classes issue at its finest.

Izaki

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Sheey wrote: »

I am one of the best I know this classes issue at its finest.

Heavy armor magicka sorc? What's the point? Might as well stack 50k magicka and have 30k worth of shields with better sustain, more penetration and the exact same tankiness.

You are the one who is wrong on the fact that Light Armor requires a group. Best sorcs I've seen wear light armor (and use DW too). If you like to play with heavy armor and can't survive without it, doesn't mean everyone else has to play like you. Also, whats funny is that in your videos of 1vX, you never let your shields go down, basically negating the whole point of using heavy armor.

Also, if you really think that magicka builds should be stacking spell damage like stamina user stack weapon damage, you kinda can't claim that you know the issues of the class and whatnot. Magicka have more tools for stacking max magicka (Mages Guild passives) and penetration (Light Armor passives).

He's a grand overlord and I have fought him many times and can confirm he can sorc. One thing I will say about sorcs wearing heavy armour is that since 1T they're just as likeky to be fully penetrated as a sorc wearing light armour. 2 pieces of heavy combined with boundless storm used to provide decent survivability, but these days not so much. I can't actually comment on 5 heavy as I've never worn that much.

Regarding stacking spell dmg vs magicka; I don't see much point in attempting to stack magicka unless you're utilising undaunted mettle. I'm undaunted rank 6 so don't have access to that passive, so if I try to stack magicka I lose tooltip damage vs. if I try to stack spell damage.

One size does not fit all.

I know who he is. But what he is saying is that one size has to fit all, that light armor will get 1-shot every time, that the lack of spell damage in LA passives is the issue. And he is wrong at that. Just because someone's a grand overlord doesn't mean everything that person says is fact. Its not a matter of: "I've played 200+ days on my character, I've got the highest PvP rank obtainable in the game, everything I do is the only way to do it right", and this is what Shey was kinda saying. I know he's a good PvPer, I never said the opposite, but what he's saying isn't true for everyone. Plus a heavy armor sorcerer is truly counter-productive. What do you gain through heavy armor? Resistances? What do you lose? Penetration, Spell Crit, Cost Reduction, Regen... I mean really? Sure it can work on some builds. But most of the time, its pretty stupid. For example, I do just fine on my magicka sorc with DW and 52k magicka in light armor, without a single impen piece. Do I get killed? Yeah of course. Would I get killed if I had heavy armor? Yes of course. Having a few k more resists won't save you. Having bigger shields on the other hand always will. Why? Because you have less chance that your shields go down in the first place.

jroc699_burr

So what kinda gear should i be going for elegant bsw spinners clever alchimist and i mean pvp pve tbs for sure with elegant or i dont even know what anymore i miss my magika sorc i hust dont know what to use in pvp

dpencil

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

For example, I do just fine on my magicka sorc with DW and 52k magicka in light armor, without a single impen piece.

@IzakiBrotheSs I don't understand how you can get 52k magicka without running Necropotence with a pet. There's only one set that gives a 3 max magicka boosts (which is Necropotence) and several that give 2 max magicka (like Spinners and Elegant), but not all of them make sense to run for a DW DD. Even assuming something like 5 spinners, 5 elegant (for overload I guess), 1 ilambris, 1 Infernal Guardian, Blue stat food, and having Bound Aegis, Inner Light, Structured Entropy, and Shooting Star on the front bar, the max magicka would still only be 50k. This would go down drastically on the back bar to more like 46k, assuming you're not dual wielding there or duplicating all the mage's guild skills. By contrast, the same skill setup and gear, except switching out Elegant for Necropotence with a pet would boost max magicka to 58k.

My usual Necropotence build sits at around 52-53k, using a staff, 3 piece willpower, and 2 piece Infernal Guardian.

Izaki

dpencil wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

For example, I do just fine on my magicka sorc with DW and 52k magicka in light armor, without a single impen piece.

@IzakiBrotheSs I don't understand how you can get 52k magicka without running Necropotence with a pet. There's only one set that gives a 3 max magicka boosts (which is Necropotence) and several that give 2 max magicka (like Spinners and Elegant), but not all of them make sense to run for a DW DD. Even assuming something like 5 spinners, 5 elegant (for overload I guess), 1 ilambris, 1 Infernal Guardian, Blue stat food, and having Bound Aegis, Inner Light, Structured Entropy, and Shooting Star on the front bar, the max magicka would still only be 50k. This would go down drastically on the back bar to more like 46k, assuming you're not dual wielding there or duplicating all the mage's guild skills. By contrast, the same skill setup and gear, except switching out Elegant for Necropotence with a pet would boost max magicka to 58k.

My usual Necropotence build sits at around 52-53k, using a staff, 3 piece willpower, and 2 piece Infernal Guardian.

@dpencil I guess you didn't look hard enough. I'm not going to talk about this play style everywhere on the forums, so lets talk this over in PM

I don't even run Inner Light btw, I can push much much higher max magicka.

Waffennacht

@dpencil wouldn't you be disappointed if the answer was imperial physique?

psychotic13

dpencil wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

For example, I do just fine on my magicka sorc with DW and 52k magicka in light armor, without a single impen piece.

@IzakiBrotheSs I don't understand how you can get 52k magicka without running Necropotence with a pet. There's only one set that gives a 3 max magicka boosts (which is Necropotence) and several that give 2 max magicka (like Spinners and Elegant), but not all of them make sense to run for a DW DD. Even assuming something like 5 spinners, 5 elegant (for overload I guess), 1 ilambris, 1 Infernal Guardian, Blue stat food, and having Bound Aegis, Inner Light, Structured Entropy, and Shooting Star on the front bar, the max magicka would still only be 50k. This would go down drastically on the back bar to more like 46k, assuming you're not dual wielding there or duplicating all the mage's guild skills. By contrast, the same skill setup and gear, except switching out Elegant for Necropotence with a pet would boost max magicka to 58k.

My usual Necropotence build sits at around 52-53k, using a staff, 3 piece willpower, and 2 piece Infernal Guardian.

His build doesn't use necropotence or inner light, I've gone with a sort of variation of his build and I'm using necropotence though, pets aren't for everyone

LarsS

Guess there is many solutions these days. I use spinner, rattlecage and mighty chudan. Works fine for me, good defence and still good dps.

psychotic13

LarsS wrote: »

Guess there is many solutions these days. I use spinner, rattlecage and mighty chudan. Works fine for me, good defence and still good dps.

Your magicka must be really low surely? Rattlecage and chudan are far from the best choices for a sorc.

LarsS

Quite good magica in fact. I have good kill/death ratios in pvp. There lots of factors to look at not only max magica.

Sheey

Since when do you loose regen in heavy armor ? Since when is critical damage requiered to be successfull in pvp? Since when do you loose spellpenetration by wearing heavy armor (CP Spellpenetration) .

Answers:

-Constitution Passiv
- Every known Player runs at least 1.5 k impen, YOU CAN NOT RELY ON A CHANCE WHICH IS CONTERED AT ALL TIMES. Bad Players are gonna die anyway.
- CP

Lightarmor:

- You loose Spellpenetration from LA passiv but if you are smart change your CP correctly.

Thats the only LA passiv for Pvp which is kinda good. Regen is same if not higher when you use heavy.

Heavy Armor:

- +200Spelldamage
- - more Health
- - Way more Spell -/ Physicalresistance
- extra Magica regen
- extra Stamina regen
- more Healregen

I am one of the best succefull Shieledstackers on Pc Eu and I tell you something.

You never ever can make presure on your enemy and holding your shields up at all times.
Against bad enemies surely you gonna win. But against good players you' ll have a huge disadvetage because they gonna block/dodge your damage and burst you down.

The problems with LA are :

- to less Health
- to short shield to keep you defensiv up at all times.
- Managable but serious stamina issues
- Heavy armor gives all why would you run light?

Let me hear your answer @IzakiBrotheSs

FriedEggSandwich

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Sheey wrote: »

I am one of the best I know this classes issue at its finest.

Heavy armor magicka sorc? What's the point? Might as well stack 50k magicka and have 30k worth of shields with better sustain, more penetration and the exact same tankiness.

You are the one who is wrong on the fact that Light Armor requires a group. Best sorcs I've seen wear light armor (and use DW too). If you like to play with heavy armor and can't survive without it, doesn't mean everyone else has to play like you. Also, whats funny is that in your videos of 1vX, you never let your shields go down, basically negating the whole point of using heavy armor.

Also, if you really think that magicka builds should be stacking spell damage like stamina user stack weapon damage, you kinda can't claim that you know the issues of the class and whatnot. Magicka have more tools for stacking max magicka (Mages Guild passives) and penetration (Light Armor passives).

He's a grand overlord and I have fought him many times and can confirm he can sorc. One thing I will say about sorcs wearing heavy armour is that since 1T they're just as likeky to be fully penetrated as a sorc wearing light armour. 2 pieces of heavy combined with boundless storm used to provide decent survivability, but these days not so much. I can't actually comment on 5 heavy as I've never worn that much.

Regarding stacking spell dmg vs magicka; I don't see much point in attempting to stack magicka unless you're utilising undaunted mettle. I'm undaunted rank 6 so don't have access to that passive, so if I try to stack magicka I lose tooltip damage vs. if I try to stack spell damage.

One size does not fit all.

I know who he is. But what he is saying is that one size has to fit all, that light armor will get 1-shot every time, that the lack of spell damage in LA passives is the issue. And he is wrong at that. Just because someone's a grand overlord doesn't mean everything that person says is fact. Its not a matter of: "I've played 200+ days on my character, I've got the highest PvP rank obtainable in the game, everything I do is the only way to do it right", and this is what Shey was kinda saying. I know he's a good PvPer, I never said the opposite, but what he's saying isn't true for everyone. Plus a heavy armor sorcerer is truly counter-productive. What do you gain through heavy armor? Resistances? What do you lose? Penetration, Spell Crit, Cost Reduction, Regen... I mean really? Sure it can work on some builds. But most of the time, its pretty stupid. For example, I do just fine on my magicka sorc with DW and 52k magicka in light armor, without a single impen piece. Do I get killed? Yeah of course. Would I get killed if I had heavy armor? Yes of course. Having a few k more resists won't save you. Having bigger shields on the other hand always will. Why? Because you have less chance that your shields go down in the first place.

You don't lose much by wearing 2 large pieces of heavy instead of light. With boundless storm up, on my front bar I have 18k resistances and on my back bar I have 24k, I also wear 7x impen. I have 38k magicka (no undaunted mettle and not attempting to stack it) 3k spell damage and 17.8k spell pen. I also only put 20cp in bastion for pvp choosing to put it into hardy/ele def etc instead. And I have vamp undeath passive. What I gain from all this combined is a relaxed ward cast that doesn't have to be every 6 seconds, a tiny dip into the constitution passive, and thanks to 17.8k pen and vulnerability poisons on my vma staff I don't seem to lack any damage. I wouldn't want to wear any more heavy armour though. Nobody is wrong because we're all speaking from experience.

Hankrabbit

Sheey wrote: »

Since when do you loose regen in heavy armor ? Since when is critical damage requiered to be successfull in pvp? Since when do you loose spellpenetration by wearing heavy armor (CP Spellpenetration) .

Answers:

-Constitution Passiv
- Every known Player runs at least 1.5 k impen, YOU CAN NOT RELY ON A CHANCE WHICH IS CONTERED AT ALL TIMES. Bad Players are gonna die anyway.
- CP

Lightarmor:

- You loose Spellpenetration from LA passiv but if you are smart change your CP correctly.

Thats the only LA passiv for Pvp which is kinda good. Regen is same if not higher when you use heavy.

Heavy Armor:

- +200Spelldamage
- - more Health
- - Way more Spell -/ Physicalresistance
- extra Magica regen
- extra Stamina regen
- more Healregen

I am one of the best succefull Shieledstackers on Pc Eu and I tell you something.

You never ever can make presure on your enemy and holding your shields up at all times.
Against bad enemies surely you gonna win. But against good players you' ll have a huge disadvetage because they gonna block/dodge your damage and burst you down.

The problems with LA are :

- to less Health
- to short shield to keep you defensiv up at all times.
- Managable but serious stamina issues
- Heavy armor gives all why would you run light?

Let me hear your answer @IzakiBrotheSs

Heavy armour on MagSorc is not BiS. If you can't keep you shields up, you are just bad at shielding. I can weave them in my rotation so im offensive without getting oneshot. You are losing so much resource and damage with HA it just dont work with sorc.

I know what im talking, i am playing pvp since conslole launch with sorc and im playing tournaments with sorc.
So all the really good sorc still wearing light.

im answering your problems
The problems with LA are :

- to less Health -> shields
- to short shield to keep you defensiv up at all times. -> They are not bigger with HA
- Managable but serious stamina issues -> Tri-stat-food or stamina pots
- Heavy armor gives all why would you run light? -> no crit, no penetration, no reduction cost, no Magicka reg, but yes you get constitution and a bit more resistances but thats not worth it


sry for bad english, i am german

psychotic13

Sheey wrote: »

Since when do you loose regen in heavy armor ? Since when is critical damage requiered to be successfull in pvp? Since when do you loose spellpenetration by wearing heavy armor (CP Spellpenetration) .

Answers:

-Constitution Passiv
- Every known Player runs at least 1.5 k impen, YOU CAN NOT RELY ON A CHANCE WHICH IS CONTERED AT ALL TIMES. Bad Players are gonna die anyway.
- CP

Lightarmor:

- You loose Spellpenetration from LA passiv but if you are smart change your CP correctly.

Thats the only LA passiv for Pvp which is kinda good. Regen is same if not higher when you use heavy.

Heavy Armor:

- +200Spelldamage
- - more Health
- - Way more Spell -/ Physicalresistance
- extra Magica regen
- extra Stamina regen
- more Healregen

I am one of the best succefull Shieledstackers on Pc Eu and I tell you something.

You never ever can make presure on your enemy and holding your shields up at all times.
Against bad enemies surely you gonna win. But against good players you' ll have a huge disadvetage because they gonna block/dodge your damage and burst you down.

The problems with LA are :

- to less Health
- to short shield to keep you defensiv up at all times.
- Managable but serious stamina issues
- Heavy armor gives all why would you run light?

Let me hear your answer @IzakiBrotheSs

I find it hard to believe you're one of the best, how do you lose regen in heavy armor? Of course you do, 4% regen and 3% cost reduction per piece of light armor is clearly better than the constitution passive, plus the constitution passive requires you to be taking damage to regain resources. Yes you do lose penetration by wearing heavy, because funny enough you can still put CP into whatever you want when wearing light...


Every player doesn't run Impen, you say you're one of the best shield stackers, if that's the case then Impen would be totally useless to you as if your shields are up you can't be critted anyway? Myself and @IzakiBrotheSs don't run any Impen, and we do fine because we keep our shields up. Health regen is irrelevant, it's a dead stat unless you stack it, plus I run vampire anyway. And what does the extra resistance matter cause shields don't have resistances and as a sorc you'll have them up almost constantly.

Shields ain't to short, if yours don't last you need more Magicka, stamina issues can be easily addressed with a tri glyph, or I use DW so a heavy now and then gives Stam return. Also having a smaller health pool is irrelevant, if you have big shields. I have 50k Magicka and 20k health and I'm not even using health food, so no light armor doesn't deem you to have low health, there are other ways of obtaining that but you seem so set in your ways that what you say is correct for everyone. So yeah...

Izaki

Sheey wrote: »

Since when do you loose regen in heavy armor ? Since when is critical damage requiered to be successfull in pvp? Since when do you loose spellpenetration by wearing heavy armor (CP Spellpenetration) .

Answers:

-Constitution Passiv
- Every known Player runs at least 1.5 k impen, YOU CAN NOT RELY ON A CHANCE WHICH IS CONTERED AT ALL TIMES. Bad Players are gonna die anyway.
- CP

Lightarmor:

- You loose Spellpenetration from LA passiv but if you are smart change your CP correctly.

Thats the only LA passiv for Pvp which is kinda good. Regen is same if not higher when you use heavy.

Heavy Armor:

- +200Spelldamage
- - more Health
- - Way more Spell -/ Physicalresistance
- extra Magica regen
- extra Stamina regen
- more Healregen

I am one of the best succefull Shieledstackers on Pc Eu and I tell you something.

You never ever can make presure on your enemy and holding your shields up at all times.
Against bad enemies surely you gonna win. But against good players you' ll have a huge disadvetage because they gonna block/dodge your damage and burst you down.

The problems with LA are :

- to less Health
- to short shield to keep you defensiv up at all times.
- Managable but serious stamina issues
- Heavy armor gives all why would you run light?

Let me hear your answer @IzakiBrotheSs

@Sheey here is my answer. Do some maths.

Looking at heavy armor as a whole and light armor as a whole without any particular sets involved.



If you really think that CP can make up for the loss of penetration from Light Armor without diminishing returns and without gimping yourself elsewhere, well I think you should go back and do some maths.
Light Armor passive: 4884 penetration. The equivalent in CP is 91 points into Spell Erosion. This is a 10% damage increase.
Okay now lets look at the spell damage from the Wrath passive. 200 spell damage when fully buffed. I will take the stats from your build video: 41035 max magicka, 2024 spell damage unbuffed (2429 with Major Sorcerery). The wrath passive gives you 200 spell damage + 6% from 3 Sorcerer skills slotted and 20% from Major Sorcerery, you get 252 spell damage. So lets calculate the damage increase! (252 x 10.5)/(41035 + 10.5 x 2429) = 0.03976. So yeah the Wrath passive when fully buffed provided you with just under 4% tooltip damage increase. Also the passive doesn't have 100% uptime, which makes it even less of a damage increase overall.
If you're smart instead of stacking points into Spell Erosion (which scales extremely badly) you will be stacking into Elfborn which provides a larger damage increase per point spent, even in the case of impen. Actually stacking 91+ points into spell erosion is just straight up stupid, because not only you lose damage from Elemental Expert but your crits are going to be hitting like wet noodles. Which leads me to my next point about heavy armor vs light armor.

Did I seriously hear that crit isn't important in PvP? Lets calculate our average damage shall we? The formula is = base damage x (1 + critical chance x critical modifier). EDIT: a mistake in calculations.
My critical hit damage modifier is 0.69 which is the base modifier of 0.5 + my points into Elfborn (66) = 0.69. So lets say someone has full impen and 52 points into resistant, which is a pretty common distribution, it will net them exactly 44% critical hit resistance. So my critical hits are hitting only 25% harder than normal hits right (0.69 - 0.44 = 0.25)? But I also have 48% crit chance. So the average tooltip damage increase is = 1 + 0.25 x 0.48 = 1.12. So over the course of the fight my abilities will be doing on average 12% more damage that the tooltip.
Now lets check out heavy armor assuming we have the same stats in penetration, spell damage and magicka but in heavy instead of light. Crit chance 38% and the same points into Elfborn. You will be doing 1.095 more damage than the tooltip. So yeah 10% more critical chance against someone with 44% critical resistance is only a 2.5% average damage increase...
But lets speak realistically. It isn't possible to have the same amount of critical hit damage and spell penetration on a heavy armor build as it is on a light armor build, because there's simply not enough CP points. So I'll take my CP distribution and yours and will do the same comparison as before.
My average damage is 1.12 more than the tooltip value as we've calculated earlier. This essentially translates to 12% more damage on average than stated on the tooltip.
You critical modifier is 0.5 as you've spent 0 points into Elfborn, so against someone with 44% critical resistance, your critical hits will be doing 6% more damage than normal hits. Your critical hit chance is 22%. So your average damage is 1.32% (1.0132) higher than the tooltip values.
So our difference in average damage is 10.68%, now tell me again that crit is not important.

So now that we compared the damage passives and the critical hits, it is safe to say that light armor will always do more damage as it allows for higher stacking of both penetration and critical hit damage, whereas with heavy you're limited to spending all extra points into either one, so in every possible case, light armor will do more damage than heavy armor.
There might be 1 exception, damage shields, this is where the Wrath passive shines brighter than Light Armor passives of crit and penetration. But when you look at the meta nowadays, there aren't many shield users.

Alright for the sake of comparing the sustain on heavy and light armor lets chose some static values.
Race = High Elf
Recovery buffs = High elf passive (9%), Major Intellect from potions (20%), Sorcerer passive (10%), Arcanist 48 CP (16%)
Cost reduction buffs = Sorcerer passive (5%), Magician 100 CP (16%)
Base recovery is 514

Recovery and cost reduction difference between heavy armor and light armor:
- Evocation and Recovery passives = 20% regen, 15% cost reduction with 5 light armor pieces
- Constitution passive = 930 with 5 heavy armor pieces (essentially = 232 recovery per sec)

It doesn't take a genius to see that 232 recovery is huge, I agree. Nonetheless it doesn't benefit from the static buffs and as a sole form of sustain, it is not enough. The Evocation passive however is always effective no matter what the recovery value is. The Recovery passive's effectiveness is determined by the amount of base recovery you have. You can take your pick of base recovery values and then run this formula: (base + gear + drink + atronach x divines) x (buffs + arcanist CP).
No matter what your recovery with heavy armor is, the constitution passive will be added at the very end of the equation, so the more recovery you stack, the better Light Armor becomes and the worse Constitution becomes.
Now if you have basically no recovery from gear, then we can compare 15% cost reduction and the Constitution passive by themselves. Take a generic ability with a 3000 magicka cost. The formula for spell cost = (base x (1 - Magician) - flat cost reduction) x (1 - cost reduction buffs)
With light armor (no cost reduction glyphs) the cost of this generic ability = 3000 x (1 - 0.16) x (1 - 0.2) = 2016
With heavy armor (no cost reduction glyphs) = 3000 x (1 - 0.16) x (1 - 0.05) = 2394
Say we cast this ability every 1 second with recovery entirely disabled. After 10 casts:
With light armor = 20160
With heavy armor = 23940 - constitution x 2 = 22080

So even with recovery completely disabled (which can't happen in game) light armor offers more sustain. Mess around with the formulas to try to a find a situation where heavy will be more effective than light armor. There isn't.

(BTW the cost reduction glyphs are a bad idea on your jewelry as they are applied before the CP, so essentially you're diminishing the returns on the Magician CP star).

Now seriously don't even talk about resistances and health because they aren't touched 80% of the time as a sorcerer. I can sit around and emote while someone is beating on my shields. If you're that good at shield stacking then you obviously don't need heavy armor, or you aren't good at shield stacking and you need the heavy armor to survive, which is perfectly fine, just don't say it as if its a fact that without heavy armor sorcs are screwed. The thing with heavy armor is that no matter how high your resistances are and no matter how good your crit resistance is, shields completely negate all those benefits. As a sorc, you don't let your shield go down very often right? After all you're the "best shield stacker pc eu".

Stamina recovery? Seriously? I have 10k stamina, and under 800 stamina recovery and I'm perfectly fine with tri-pots. 10% dodge and break free reduction is all that is ever needed in terms of stamina sustain.

You're pretty humble though Maybe instead of saying how good you are at playing sorcs and how well you know the class, you should look into some maths and see that your build is pretty much stacking diminishing returns and is entirely counter-productive.