Stop kicking a low dps if you are a noob yourself

OrphanHelgen

Needed the selene set, and queued for Selene's Web.
They was already on the last boss, I just needed to use the portal.

I asked: what happend to the previous DD?
They said: Low dps.

We did the boss, and I saw I had 80% of the group dps in combat metrics. I told them to not blame the DD they kicked for low dps, since clearly the other dd was low as well. Then I saw no buffs at all. Combat prayer, aether, warhorns, crusher.. It was nothing. The boss I had to kill completely self buffed. After I told this, they was still negative and told me it was my champion points only that made me have this dps. My cp has a very well setup yes, but I also have 162 days played on my character, and raid vmol 5 times a week usually, so the dps is not coming automaticly from cp. I also know what I am doing.

So I would like to comment on this:
I have seen DD's with cp 200, who have 30k+ dps, and I have seen DD's with over 750 cp who hardcast crystal frag, cast liquid lightning 4 times in a row, and light attack spamming, and end up with 6k dps.. yes im not joking, and I have seen several of those.

To sum up, and this is for all the community who are not aware of this: Do not judge a player based on his cp, and do not rage in a group and blame others when you don't do anything for the group yourself.

UrQuan

I'm curious: were the 3 in the group when you joined low level/CP or high CP?

biovitalb16_ESO

No screenshots..

Cool story bro.

OrphanHelgen

UrQuan wrote: »

I'm curious: were the 3 in the group when you joined low level/CP or high CP?

there was 3 others yes, cp 350 ish.

OrphanHelgen

biovitalb16_ESO wrote: »

No screenshots..

Cool story bro.

Glad to entertain

SickDuck

Good players don't demand high dps from others. They make it up by themselves.

Sadly I've seen this attitude too. I started to take it as a cry for help rather than an expectation.

OrphanHelgen

SickDuck wrote: »

Good players don't demand high dps from others. They make it up by themselves.

Sadly I've seen this attitude too. I started to take it as a cry for help rather than an expectation.

hmm good point actually

Libonotus

The community is becoming toxic bc of this. If someone in the group is a low CP, I'll run with them idc

code65536

It reminds me of the time when a CP34 "tank" with a bow and no taunt was hell bent on kicking the level 10, with my vetos blocking his multiple kick attempts. He eventually rage quit after I called him out for not taunting.

I'm the one doing 70-90% of the group DPS; if anyone should make the call on kicking, it should be the one doing the carrying, not someone who needs carrying.

ssewallb14_ESO

I find most players being especially selective about pugs for easy content are generally really bad themselves and unable to realize that they are the problem. I've had generally good luck with pugs by avoiding groups like this. Your better players won't be advertising in this way, as 90% of content in the game is easy enough that a good player who knows his class well enough to spec for some degree of independence can carry a weak group.

WhitePawPrints

To be fair, it did work out for them in the end. They kicked someone because they weren't be carried, so they got you to carry them.

HeroOfNone

Even if the DPS was low that fight doesn't have much of a burn requirement, just need to stay out if the red and avoid the slam. As long as the boss ends up dead, that's the key. I'd ask why were they not able to sustain with even low DPS.

kargen27

Shortly after the latest update I decide to to a random dungeon with my healer. I usually just do the random group when I am working on a new character or want to try a new rotation and guild members are all off doing their own thing. I wanted to see how the Chokethorn set worked before taking it into the vet dungeons with guild members. Got in a group and one DPS just took off hell bent for the first boss. Tank and 2nd DPS engaged the mobs and I stayed with them. 2nd DPS said he was new to doing dungeons was there anything he should know. I told him I would explain each boss fight as we got to it and as long as he tried to stay out of the red and was kinda near the tank I could keep him alive for everything else. First DPS blazed the first boss without us but I explained the mechanics anyway. At the 2nd boss our blazing DPS ran into trouble and messaged that we should quit wasting time and just finish the $^%#ing dungeon. So I made sure that the three of us killed every mob, checked every nook and cranny for heavy sacks and treasure chest as we made our way to the 2nd boss. Our blazing DPS didn't need much help (he was close to being able to solo) so boss went down before any of the mechanics really mattered. We continued that way through the entire dungeon with him cursing at us to hurry and me explaining to the others what would happen if we weren't just burning through bosses quick. Final boss we actually needed the tank and I threw in some DPS when it looked like mobs might overwhelm us, but really we made it fairly easy.

Things got fun after we finished when our big gun announced random groups were for people that just wanted to do speed runs for gear. I offered up my opinion that normal randoms were for people who were learning and it was to be expected it might take time to finish and that there would be a possibility you might not finish at all. We were called idiots, noobs and a few other things and I suggested if he wanted to do quick runs just spam in zone that he was a CP??? DPS looking to speed run and could carry the DPS. Would be about as quick and everybody would be happy. I go one last insult and he left. From that experience our guild got two new members (one really active) and just as an added bonus a couple of days later I saw our blazing DPS looking for a group in zone saying it would be quick and easy. He must have had another bad experience with the random group finder? Funny thing is he is so close to being able to solo that all he really needs for most normals is an average healer. If he spent more time in vets he probably would be able to solo in not to long a time.

All that said basically I am of the opinion that random normals are for learning and taking your time. If you want anything else either use guild members, zone chat or go to vet randoms. Vet randoms everybody should know what they are doing and what the bosses will do.

And if you can't taunt don't go in as a tank!

N2woR

Im sat on a CP 283 Tank, I ran the CoH pledge today on vet with a Cp 83 and Cp 113 (both our damage) Both were running a bow, haven't a clue what else they were running because neither swapped ONCE. The cp 83 was the better of the two but only slightly, the cp 113 only light attacked, used scatter arrow rarely and used the new bow ulti.... The 1st healer left after the 1st boss which took an age and a ton of his soul gems picking them up (they died 3 times to mobs) the second healer and myself left after the second boss.

I tried giving advice, I tried helping but I was met with a simple 'shut up'. The 1st healer was flaming as it was plain to see they were struggling big time but in a very, very simple way. It wasn't mechicanics of the boss, it wasn't even the skills selected both spent there time light attacking over n over again.

I'm low Cp, I'll sit and help anyone without flaming. I'll run any dungeon with any level and run through mechicanics after a death. Me being a noob or a lowbie doesn't stop my ability to judge a bad, bad player and the simplest of tasks. Yeah I never kicked them but for the 1st since I started running dungeons.... I really wanted to

kargen27

N2woR wrote: »

Im sat on a CP 283 Tank, I ran the CoH pledge today on vet with a Cp 83 and Cp 113 (both our damage) Both were running a bow, haven't a clue what else they were running because neither swapped ONCE. The cp 83 was the better of the two but only slightly, the cp 113 only light attacked, used scatter arrow rarely and used the new bow ulti.... The 1st healer left after the 1st boss which took an age and a ton of his soul gems picking them up (they died 3 times to mobs) the second healer and myself left after the second boss.

I tried giving advice, I tried helping but I was met with a simple 'shut up'. The 1st healer was flaming as it was plain to see they were struggling big time but in a very, very simple way. It wasn't mechicanics of the boss, it wasn't even the skills selected both spent there time light attacking over n over again.

I'm low Cp, I'll sit and help anyone without flaming. I'll run any dungeon with any level and run through mechicanics after a death. Me being a noob or a lowbie doesn't stop my ability to judge a bad, bad player and the simplest of tasks. Yeah I never kicked them but for the 1st since I started running dungeons.... I really wanted to

I've never kicked either, bit yeah I have left a group after telling them with the make-up of the group we have now we aren't going to be able to finish. I don't single out any one player unless the player is being a jerk on top of being really bad at his roll. A fun one was I and two guild members needed a 4th so picked one up random. We were all on mid level characters. We got our tank and went in. All three of us have tanks that run trials and hard mode pledges all the time. It was obvious our tank (higher level than us) had no clue what he was doing. He at one point taunted the boss then ran from him. He did at least have a taunt though. We tried to help and he called us noobs told us we obviously knew nothing about tanking and we should just shut up and learn. When he died, and he did a lot, we left him laying there dead and did our thing. All you can do is laugh and move on.

N2woR

That's the thing, I've played with a lot of 561s who haven't a clue even with all there game time. Played Fungal grotto 2 last week sometime and had a CP561 Dd stam sorc that didn't know to attack the adds that pinned down a random. We got there in the end but it's just hit or miss everytime you hit that 'join queue' in the activity finder

Rev Rielle

I agree. 'Don't judge a book by it's cover', the adage holds true to CPs. Sure they help but they're not the defining variable when determining whether someone is useful or not.

I think visualization of CPs should be removed. When you see players calling for 'need this many CP to join for dungeon run' it's clear they don't really know what they're talking about. And it's a self-[un]fulfilling prophecy, because such talk results of course in a portion of the player-base that aren't going to group with anyone until they have maximum CPs, which in turn leads to players with max CP characters that are new to grouping mechanics and don't understand the fight, etc. Which then results in the same elitist player-group complaining "how can they get to CP 561 and not know the fights, how to group etc etc".

These players are the masters of their own grief; not only do they firstly not understand how the game works themselves, but secondly compound their own perceived problem by making their own situation worse by the very mechanism they think is helping them avoid it.

Liofa

Here is something happened to me 2 days ago . I have nearly 700 CP and run vMoL lots of times and have experience in every dungeon . I am with my stamina NB alt , level 36 . Joined random normal group finder to get my 100k experience . I know that I am pulling bad DPS with my level 1 training items but my DPS is around 15k which is more than most PUGs . Anyways , I joined a group . Group leader ( has 230 CP ) said ''lol , here we go again'' . We started , at the Lich boss (Wayrest Sewers 2) who blinking to another point I did 20k DPS . Leader said , ''omg , can't carry another pug'' and kicked me . I looked at my combat metrics . I have 60% of group DPS . I was focusing boss with single target skills except Endless Hail which was hitting only boss while other ''DD'' (group leader) was spamming Steel Tornado to the Ghosts .

I basically got kicked from a group because I was ''getting carried'' even though I was the one who is carrying others . What a joke ..

WhiteMage

Kicked for carrying, eh? Some people are just special like that.
Or how about that one guy who tries to get people together for harder content demanding that people be max CP to join his group...


When he has less than 300 CP himself.
I had that guy in my raiding guild once and we gave him a TON of crap for that.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

How about lets just tell ZOS to stop setting up their own players to fail. The marketing message may be "play as you want" but the dungeons certainly aren't.

Wrecking_Blow_Spam

All these stories ring true. I admit I PUG a lot, majority of vote to kicks are from the noobs.

Aka 300 fake tank/bad DPS trying to kick lvl 20 in a normal dungeon, yes normal.

Or "that guy" LFG need 500cp + farm vet... guy has 300cp and sucks to boot.

I very rarely kick, in fact I constantly decline kicks to low levels especially on normal. Only time kicks is on vet especially dlc dungeons. When lvl 80cp with no food, rotation etc. He shouldn't be in there. He's getting insta killed by a single sleever lol.

alexkdd99

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Needed the selene set, and queued for Selene's Web.
They was already on the last boss, I just needed to use the portal.

I asked: what happend to the previous DD?
They said: Low dps.

We did the boss, and I saw I had 80% of the group dps in combat metrics. I told them to not blame the DD they kicked for low dps, since clearly the other dd was low as well. Then I saw no buffs at all. Combat prayer, aether, warhorns, crusher.. It was nothing. The boss I had to kill completely self buffed. After I told this, they was still negative and told me it was my champion points only that made me have this dps. My cp has a very well setup yes, but I also have 162 days played on my character, and raid vmol 5 times a week usually, so the dps is not coming automaticly from cp. I also know what I am doing.

So I would like to comment on this:
I have seen DD's with cp 200, who have 30k+ dps, and I have seen DD's with over 750 cp who hardcast crystal frag, cast liquid lightning 4 times in a row, and light attack spamming, and end up with 6k dps.. yes im not joking, and I have seen several of those.

To sum up, and this is for all the community who are not aware of this: Do not judge a player based on his cp, and do not rage in a group and blame others when you don't do anything for the group yourself.

Obviously they were correct with kicking the other guy if they completed it after kicking him.

VizigothAlaric

biovitalb16_ESO wrote: »

No screenshots..

Cool story bro.

LOL screen shots hmmmm

U know what u just wrote comment who did 50k DPS Rakkhat with heavy attack build , no rapid strike no minor slayer no caltrops.

So enjoy

Gargath

Yeah stop measuring others by their dps, stop using addons that show you the combat metrics.
Personally I play without these and have no idea what damage numbers others deal. I keep focusing on myself and overall group score.

deevoh1991

There needs to be a way to tell if low level players are toons who have high CP allocated or they just started the game the day before.

Niaver

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

I have seen DD's with cp 200, who have 30k+ dps, and I have seen DD's with over 750 cp who hardcast crystal frag, cast liquid lightning 4 times in a row, and light attack spamming, and end up with 6k dps.. yes im not joking, and I have seen several of those.

That's because CPs are account-wide i suppose. My main is tank, but recently i leveled my sorc dd. I have ~500cp, and i'm sure if i go with my sorc in dung i will be a horrible dd or at least very very average. I got these all CPs on my main tank character, so i'm really nooby with sorc.

So these days CP don't represent experience/skill at all.

lucky_Sage

i always give them a chance and try to help.alot of times they say this does work and say it hits this hard.most of those people are sorc trying to hard cast the stupid crap aoe morph of frags or some nb think bow builds work to many people want to play them but 98% can pull enough dps for a vet dungeon. ive healed and dps

ZOS fix bow builds there is a lot of people who want to use them that are not gankers

Grabmoore

HeroOfNone wrote: »

Even if the DPS was low that fight doesn't have much of a burn requirement, just need to stay out if the red and avoid the slam. As long as the boss ends up dead, that's the key. I'd ask why were they not able to sustain with even low DPS.

Uhm I'm with you on never kicking lowbees, but selene is in fact a soft dps race. I had to learn this the hard way on my tank. I was able to tank her for minutes, but eventually the low cp destro/bow dps players in my group couldn't bring her nor the adds down in time and died.


Personally my worst experience with randoms was with overconfident max CP players, who only knew min/max groups before.
After running ahead, pulling everything in VFG II to the first boss and dying two times he rage quitted. The healer wasn't even in, when he started his madness

Loc2262

Liofa wrote: »

I basically got kicked from a group because I was ''getting carried'' even though I was the one who is carrying others . What a joke ..

Oh the irony!

I had a funny experience the other day which went exactly the other way. I (490 CP now) was running a random normal with low-levels (around level 20). Can't remember what dungeon, but at one point a level 20 said before a boss "Everyone know the mechanics? You need to do ... when he does ...".

I was like, okay, this is a first! I told him that I was positively impressed and asked him if he was an experienced player on an alt, and he said nope, he's a new player and has been leveling up his character in dungeons mostly, and by now seen most of the normal ones.

Another perfect example for the "never judge a book..." trope.

Loc2262

Grabmoore wrote: »

After running ahead, pulling everything in VFG II to the first boss and dying two times he rage quitted. The healer wasn't even in, when he started his madness

Yeah it's a sad thing, I regularly experience that too. When I do a PUG, whatever role I play, I run with the group, or if I happen to be ahead, wait for them at the next boss/mob group. But in about one in four runs, there's a player that rushes ahead. Often it's funny watching them squirm and die if the healer isn't there yet.