The way some people treat 'lower cp' players is appaling

Snit

It depends on where you are, and whether you're willing to listen.

If it's Vet Wayrest, Banished or most of the older dungeons, I'm fine if it's me and three new players. Assuming they're willing to listen a bit on certain mechanics, we'll get through the dungeon just fine.

If I random into vet WGT, ICP or Mazzatune, I'll wait one boss. It might turn out that all those level 34 players have 561 CP, decent gear and know what they're doing. But it probably won't. I'm not going to spend the rest of my evening with a team of new folks in those much harder dungeons.

The DLC dungeons shouldn't be in the random rotation. That would solve quite a bit.

Siphoneer

Snit wrote: »

It depends on where you are, and whether you're willing to listen.

If it's Vet Wayrest, Banished or most of the older dungeons, I'm fine if it's me and three new players. Assuming they're willing to listen a bit on certain mechanics, we'll get through the dungeon just fine.

If I random into vet WGT, ICP or Mazzatune, I'll wait one boss. It might turn out that all those level 34 players have 561 CP, decent gear and know what they're doing. But it probably won't. I'm not going to spend the rest of my evening with a team of new folks in those much harder dungeons.

The DLC dungeons shouldn't be in the random rotation. That would solve quite a bit.

I was vet WGT and we went through is easily with only a couple of deaths from each of us, never a wipe though

Lukums1

For vWGT this far into the game.

Everyone is more than capable of clearing it and knowing what to do.

This is where pugs and premades differ.

We have 2 "lock pickers" in our groups who just break the cages open the first boss is generally the easiest kinda.

But getting back to the mentality of players.

This I agree with MOST and I swear to god I mean MOST are complete tards and generally themselves are "*** players"

I don't mind calling people out especially when they point the blame elsewhere.
There needs to be more focused pve guilds that help one another smash through wgt/city of ash runs, HELL even normal trials which can be EASILY done on +200 CP.

It's generally shocking state of the game, how you described you weren't dieing constantly you weren't using *** rotation (doesn't sound like it) you only died a few times which means for the majority you stayed out of the red.

I have no idea why people have sticks so far up their own %$@#

Good luck...in future groups though

Apokalypt

I am CP 330 Tank and I can tank vAA and vHRC...
I don`t see a reason to bash on lower CP players...

UrQuan

Siphoneer wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Find a good Guild and these situations do not happen. Lone Wolf Help has a fixed event on Mondays where we run dungeons to have fun and learn. If we wipe, we laugh about it, talk about what happened and try something different. We putter around sometimes, listen to the quest givers or wait for those who are doing the quests, pet the Daedra and otherwise just enjoy our selves.

No one gets called a Scrub, but gentle chiding does happen. Mostly it's me calling me an idiot or yelling at my character because they did not do what they are supposed to. Yes, this means I am yelling at myself, at least I don't have to buy me flowers after to apologize. But we don't harp on other members, because who is going to learn that way, or have any fun if that is going on.

Which platform?

PC/NA. I organize the Monday group dungeon nights for the guild. Most of the regulars for that event are at CP cap or close to it, but we often have lower CP players join in the event, and even players who are below level 50. Heck, last night we had 4 groups running - 3 of them were made up of high CP players (most at cap, and the others probably all above CP350 or so), and then there was the group I ran with that included a level 49 (who hit CP10 during our dungeons) and a level 14.

Sometimes we do the dungeons on vet mode, sometimes we do them on normal mode - it's up to the people in each group.

Drummerx04

I'm starting to get a little irritated with people asking for CP or assigning such overwhelming value to CP. I've even made a post about it Champion Points: Please Stop

Just yesterday I had a group lf1m dps for vICP pledge. I offer my services and get the response, "cp?"

I don't answer that (700+ CP) and instead link the Imperial City Challenger achievement and quickly get an invite. And you know what? They were pretty underwhelming for a max CP group. The healer either couldn't or wouldn't run any magicka support skills (even when I asked about them), didn't have spc, didn't use combat prayer, people died regularly because the stack and burn strategy only really works if the stack gets healed.
The tank didn't control adds very well, multiple times I had two horavers chase me down and double poison 1 shot me through 17.7k health, for instance.
The other dps dealt reasonable damage but died quite often, limiting his usefulness.

The lord warden fight was a disaster with the healer and other dps being constantly dead. The other dps had the nerve to call me a sissy for not resing while the boss had aggro in the add phase... I stop to res him and immediately get his by 3 meteors and die... exactly like I expected to happen, but I wanted to prove a point.

In short, if you aren't a good group of players, you don't have the right to ask people for CP as if THEY are going to be the ones holding back your group.

Asardes

I had close to max CP people join as DDs in vet dungeons and just doing heavy attacks with one class ability (which wasn't even a DoT), and sometimes elemental blockade - probably touched the wrong button. Their DPS was underwhelming. When asked about his odd rotation one told me that this was "his build". One of them was in VICP, but fortunately the other had enough DPS to beat the bosses. Barely. Scrubs, scrubs everywhere.

Destyran

Probably because low cp players 99% of the time suck soo bad. The catch up mechanic isnt good no one feels the power creep any more.

Asardes

The problem most low CP players (<160 CP) have is that they don't know how to play yet. Reaching 50 is very fast. Just questing 2 alliance areas will probably take you there, or just a couple of days of grinding in one of them. Those CP are gained very fast. They receive the first 10 as soon as they hit 50, and the next 60 or so are covered by the stacked illumination pool. So they will be CP70+ in a few days, if not hours. The rest are also gained very fast. Probably playing 2-3 days in a sustained way or a week at most in a more laid back fashion. And that's not taking into account any XP modifiers, like events (cake, brew), XP pots and scrolls. So it's very possible to have a CP160+ player with less than a fortnight actual playing experience. Unless it's a secondary account player, or someone who has thoroughly done research on builds, skills, rotation, gear in advance, it's inevitably a newbie who will get rekt hard when he lands in a normal dungeon, let alone a veteran one.

Siphoneer

Asardes wrote: »

The problem most low CP players (<160 CP) have is that they don't know how to play yet. Reaching 50 is very fast. Just questing 2 alliance areas will probably take you there, or just a couple of days of grinding in one of them. Those CP are gained very fast. They receive the first 10 as soon as they hit 50, and the next 60 or so are covered by the stacked illumination pool. So they will be CP70+ in a few days, if not hours. The rest are also gained very fast. Probably playing 2-3 days in a sustained way or a week at most in a more laid back fashion. And that's not taking into account any XP modifiers, like events (cake, brew), XP pots and scrolls. So it's very possible to have a CP160+ player with less than a fortnight actual playing experience. Unless it's a secondary account player, or someone who has thoroughly done research on builds, skills, rotation, gear in advance, it's inevitably a newbie who will get rekt hard when he lands in a normal dungeon, let alone a veteran one.

@Asardes
I wasnt a newbie

Siphoneer

Destyran wrote: »

Probably because low cp players 99% of the time suck soo bad. The catch up mechanic isnt good no one feels the power creep any more.

Well arent you just perfect

Siphoneer

Drummerx04 wrote: »

I'm starting to get a little irritated with people asking for CP or assigning such overwhelming value to CP. I've even made a post about it Champion Points: Please Stop

Just yesterday I had a group lf1m dps for vICP pledge. I offer my services and get the response, "cp?"

I don't answer that (700+ CP) and instead link the Imperial City Challenger achievement and quickly get an invite. And you know what? They were pretty underwhelming for a max CP group. The healer either couldn't or wouldn't run any magicka support skills (even when I asked about them), didn't have spc, didn't use combat prayer, people died regularly because the stack and burn strategy only really works if the stack gets healed.
The tank didn't control adds very well, multiple times I had two horavers chase me down and double poison 1 shot me through 17.7k health, for instance.
The other dps dealt reasonable damage but died quite often, limiting his usefulness.

The lord warden fight was a disaster with the healer and other dps being constantly dead. The other dps had the nerve to call me a sissy for not resing while the boss had aggro in the add phase... I stop to res him and immediately get his by 3 meteors and die... exactly like I expected to happen, but I wanted to prove a point.

In short, if you aren't a good group of players, you don't have the right to ask people for CP as if THEY are going to be the ones holding back your group.

@Drummerx04
Sounds about right tbh, they blame their mistakes on the 'scrubs' to cover up

You should not be treated that way.. calling someone a sissy because of their own lack of patience smh

CultOfMMO

was doing normal volenfell one day, i was on my high cp stam sorc and i was tight on time so i basically just kept running and killing as fast as i could, i didnt need heals or tanks.

i engaged tremorscale way before they were even close, and this guy flips at me start calling me names and stuff

needless to say i was confused as ***, so after the fight i asked whats the matter. he said...

...if you kill that boss before the dwemer boss in the chamber to the left it bugs the dungeon and now we cant finish it, thanks for nothing idiot

and left the group

to be very honest i wasnt even mad i actually laughed my ass off

Siphoneer

CultOfMMO wrote: »

was doing normal volenfell one day, i was on my high cp stam sorc and i was tight on time so i basically just kept running and killing as fast as i could, i didnt need heals or tanks.

i engaged tremorscale way before they were even close, and this guy flips at me start calling me names and stuff

needless to say i was confused as ***, so after the fight i asked whats the matter. he said...

...if you kill that boss before the dwemer boss in the chamber to the left it bugs the dungeon and now we cant finish it, thanks for nothing idiot

and left the group

to be very honest i wasnt even mad i actually laughed my ass off

@CultOfMMO the best part is that thats not even true lol, do you mean the Dwemer Sphere? I always kill Tremorscale first

CultOfMMO

Siphoneer wrote: »

CultOfMMO wrote: »

was doing normal volenfell one day, i was on my high cp stam sorc and i was tight on time so i basically just kept running and killing as fast as i could, i didnt need heals or tanks.

i engaged tremorscale way before they were even close, and this guy flips at me start calling me names and stuff

needless to say i was confused as ***, so after the fight i asked whats the matter. he said...

...if you kill that boss before the dwemer boss in the chamber to the left it bugs the dungeon and now we cant finish it, thanks for nothing idiot

and left the group

to be very honest i wasnt even mad i actually laughed my ass off

@CultOfMMO the best part is that thats not even true lol, do you mean the Dwemer Sphere? I always kill Tremorscale first

yea the dwemer sphere in that annoying steam room, to the left of tremorscale, past the grp of lions.

i was chuckling when he left, then i really started to laugh when we finished the dungeon like 5 minutes after.

Siphoneer

CultOfMMO wrote: »

Siphoneer wrote: »

CultOfMMO wrote: »

was doing normal volenfell one day, i was on my high cp stam sorc and i was tight on time so i basically just kept running and killing as fast as i could, i didnt need heals or tanks.

i engaged tremorscale way before they were even close, and this guy flips at me start calling me names and stuff

needless to say i was confused as ***, so after the fight i asked whats the matter. he said...

...if you kill that boss before the dwemer boss in the chamber to the left it bugs the dungeon and now we cant finish it, thanks for nothing idiot

and left the group

to be very honest i wasnt even mad i actually laughed my ass off

@CultOfMMO the best part is that thats not even true lol, do you mean the Dwemer Sphere? I always kill Tremorscale first

yea the dwemer sphere in that annoying steam room, to the left of tremorscale, past the grp of lions.

i was chuckling when he left, then i really started to laugh when we finished the dungeon like 5 minutes after.

@CultOfMMO He a lier then aha, its best to just laugh it off tbh, I hope you got an awesome drop

Absentia

Unfortunately there are a lot of those so called "experts", who know everything and never make a single mistake, except for playing with inferior people.

Usually they don't have the time to wait for the whole group to move on, or if there's more then one of them, explain their tactics.
And that's why they usually don't communicate with the other players or even worse, they criticize the others all the time.

And in my experience it makes no difference, if you're a low level character or not.
If something goes wrong, it's usually the fault of the others.

Sometimes i wonder, why they use random groups at all.
When they're so great, every guild should be proud to have such excellent players on board.

My best random group experiences where with people who are relaxed, enjoy the game, don't get a heart attack if something goes wrong and are encouraging and helpful with weaker players.

BenevolentBowd

My favourite quote from twitter that's related:

Rich Lambert ‏@SlashLurk Oct 7
I just got vote kicked from LFG on my EU character for being too low level for a normal. I'm lvl 14!

Heh, you'd be surprised who you might be kicking from the group. @ZOS_RichLambert

Upright_man

Valderis wrote: »

I've watched DPS literally LIGHT ATTACK with a bow 100% of the time. These are people I do not want to run these dungeons with. Not because they are a "scrub" or anything, but because I value my gaming time. .

^ The light attack bow guys are everywhere!

Saw a dps at 180cp doing this again last night, I stopped dpsing briefly to watch his damage/rotation (or lack thereof) and just had to /facepalm..
Surely they realise they're probably doing less damage than the healer.. right?

I don't mind carrying them through a random normal, that's fine with me because i can chew through those.
Its just weird when they cant see (aka refuse to see) there's an issue there.... At lower levels i forgive this, but by cp 180.. well i can see why people get so frustrated and just kick lower cp's.

Most vet groups would just boot you upon seeing the bow la spam, which maybe they feel gets the message across better because previously their advice on the same situation was ignored completely.

Cronopoly

To the main topic: There's no reason to be rude to lower CP's. I try to explain the mechanics that are likely for success and those that are perilous.

That said, certain things should be explained in a mature and respectful manner. Unfortunately so many people just throw a tantrum at someone less experienced and just bail.

In PUG's, As a main CP561 healer my biggest problem since 1 Tamriel dropped is under CP'd persons that do not yet have enough points in Elemental Defender or Hardy taking 90% damage on every mob attack. I'm reduced to nonstop spamming of BoL even on trash to keep these people alive. Then they wonder why we wipe and others at 561cp people leave the group. I've had this occur in a Normal dungeons as well as a laughable wipe on veteran trash which I called a halt to.

As always I end up calling it after the 7th wipe, apologizing even though I know I stayed longer than most. It's not their fault entirely. Many are led to believe they were prepared at CP160 for some of the harder Vet content.

My pet peeves that I always explain to others respecfully:
- DD's that have a mob caster right next to them "Casting heals on the boss" and they don't know how to Interrupt. >< I tell them how, they ignore it.
- Standing in the Red Circle that the Almighty God himself could not heal them through...yet they stand there for over 7 seconds and die ><.
- Asking the healer to rez a DD that died, when the other DD's aren't doing a damn thing DPS wise, and I am spamming BoL cause the Tank must be wearing all light armor lol and if I stop we wipe lol.

So yes I am now very careful and wary of doing pug Delves. And ask frank questions beforehand. It may put some off but it's much better than 1/3 of the way through the dungeon run from hell.

And to the level 23 "all bow" Nightblade. No it wont work, I don't care how much you want that Velidreth Helm I tried to explain all of the above but he was sure it could be done. Possibly if there were 3 other CP561's to carry him through then yes. But a mixed bag of not maxxed CP (well only me at 561)...ain't happening. I feel for the lower level CP folks, as they seem to be throwing themselves at a wall at points. They want to work for the awesome gear they see others wearing and destroying with, but have a treadmill of sorts ahead of them to get it.

Asardes

Some dungeons are easier and don't really require high DPS to finish, in addition to knowing the mechanics and having a bit of group coordination. From CP0 to 561 you gain something like 25% more DPS and around 10-15% damage mitigation just from putting those CP in mighty/elemental expert and hardy/elemental defender. Even having CPs raises stats, so probably the damage increase is something closer to 30-33% of the boot when adding the increase from the blue points not to mention survivability from increased HP. The green ones in regeneration and cost reduction also make a big difference to sustain.. But even CP561 won't help someone who doesn't know how to play the game.

I've been farming VCoH 1 on my magicka sorcerer tank last evening with random groups from the tool. A few times I even got players under 100 CP. Didn't notice because even as tank I can pull 10-15K single target and up to 35K AoE in some trash packs so I was probably compensating quite a bit for their lack of DPS. In one boss fight I had 13.5K DPS, accounting for about 34% of the group DPS, according to Combat Metrics, so things were going pretty smoothly. But as time went on, the queue waiting time got longer, as fewer people were online. So I included VCoH2 in the queue, because it has the same sets. The first run in CoH2 went pretty smoothly, because group DPS was sufficient. It took something like 25 minutes, which is reasonable. The players were all above CP300.

The 2nd group however had low CP players. One of them was around CP80, in heavy armor, spamming wrecking blow, the other was a pet sorc hard casting frags. It took like 5 minutes to kill the first boss and the total group DPS was 22-25K, with me pulling about 40% of that in tanking gear. It was really painful, my hands were sore from all that button mashing, aggroing everything, interrupting the healers, rolling out of negate and ice circles, casting AoEs and wards. So for the spider boss I just changed to DD gear and killed her pretty easily. I'm still a beginner DD but I have figured out my rotation, know how to sustain and I'm pulling ~25K with no support at all, just weaving heavy attacks from time to time. The skeleton boss was easier as well, but took long because having switched from tank to DD he was moving around quite a bit and couldn't AoE him. In both fights I pulled 70-75% of the group DPS. By the time we reached the amalgam it was getting quite late and I was tired from 4 hours of relentless farming so I quit the group. It was simply not efficient to continue like that.

The conclusion is that I wouldn't take players under CP160 and especially players who haven't figured their gear - wearing heavy as DD - and rotation - spamming one slow attack - in veteran part 2 dungeons or DLC dungeons.

heng14rwb17_ESO

Low CP means...........that player only just started playing the game.

U either show him the tactic OR just go find another grp.

ulrik_74

Got kicked out the other day from 2 random normal dungeon in a row.

I'm a big level 20 and I had just finished mazzatun and ICP.. My build is a heavy attack magicka DK build and I am hitting quite hard.

Very surprised to be kicked out and being told I am low level. And I hit very very hard with all my 561 cp points

Unless you are completely clueless, most players can complete normal dungeons.. And there is to be a better tool than punishing kicked out players (who got kicked out in 30 seconds!!)

I hope that they fix it!

Ulrik_74

Thoosa

I'm level 423 or so and can complete most veteran dungeons, but most times I get Veteran White Gold Tower I get kicked either after dying once or immediately on joining the group. Do you have to be 561 for this one!?

Upright_man

Thoosa wrote: »

I'm level 423 or so and can complete most veteran dungeons, but most times I get Veteran White Gold Tower I get kicked either after dying once or immediately on joining the group. Do you have to be 561 for this one!?

Nope, people are just really impatient and entitled these days.

Thoosa

I did a trial on Hal ral yesterday and it was veteran.

It was going ok until my food expired and my health dropped to 14k health. A couple of people started screaming how my health was too low and wouldn't be able to do the next boss and demanding me to be kicked. Some guy even came on the mic saying he couldn't kick me because of where we were on the map. I just left I could have simply eaten more food but apparently that wasn't good enough.

DemonDruaga

When people behave like that for a vwgt run, they must be pretty bad themselfs. I mean a dude that can hold aggro and debuff and someone that can do dmg and offheal a bit are more than enough to clear it, when maxed out on gear. I wouldn't give too many toughts about that. My ignorlist is crowded with kids like this, because I always kick them out of my group and get some lovely messages after that I want to play with funny people, not the bottom of the society

greylox

I prefer playing with lower levels rather than higher. Yesterday we were doing a speedrun vet wgt, which we did no problems...But we had a cp1000+ dude that would not stop moaning, telling us what to do (done it a thousand times before), just the most arrogant, whiny little *** I've ever had the misfortune of playing with.

Totes-Bode

People just want immediate satisfaction and don't even want a reasonable challenge anymore. My friend has a CP 500 mag sorc who joined my vHRC run. I got a message right away from someone else - "Are you SURE? He isn't max CP." But he's actually very good, and did 90k on the lower boss. And recently, I was in a random vet queue and got Arx Corinium. My CP 700+ healer was the highest level there. The other members were all different levels. Immediately, someone in the group voted to kick the CP 130 dps, which I declined. This member starts typing in all caps in group chat that, "LOL", he "NEVER" runs a dungeon with anyone lower than 160 CP. In a random dungeon, you get what you get. I voted to kick him instead and it passed, and enjoyed the rest of the random with the replacement.

Americanfunguy

I don't insult people with lower cp. However if someone isn't picking up the slack I will message them privately and talk to them. But if you are struggling and need help, you can reach out to others. However, you did say don't dislike people for the role and class combination. I don't agree with this. If I am wanting to run a veteran trial or veteran Cradle Of Shadows, and I'm running with a stamina pet sorc, I will not sit quietly. I can understand people like their own immersion, however I like my time not being wasted.